# Opinions wanted, Yamaha 25HP 4-stroke vs ETEC 25 HP?



## Tim Murphy (Mar 16, 2019)

Dear Board,

I haven't posted here in a couple of years so I hope someone will respond?

I have a 1982 Grumman 4.6 boat. It has a pressured treated raised bow platform and a full pressure treated floor. When I bought the boat a couple of years ago it had a bow mounted trolling motor and couple of brand new batteries so I used it electric only with a transom mounted trolling motor as insurance. We have mostly electric only lakes around here anyway, so it worked fine.

The next year I got the itch and bought a 1995 Evinrude electric start 15 HP. It pushes the boat, but that is about all it does. I can get to 9.9 mph with a tailwind and get about 8.5 mph heading into the wind.

My wife and I will be vacationing in early June on Raystown Lake here in central PA. It's a big lake though not very wide, but it is used by many larger powerboats. I decided I wanted and needed a bigger motor for vacation and for the future. The boat is rated for 40 HP but I know I don't need to go that big.

A local dealer has a couple of used tiller steer motors. One is a Yamaha 25 HP four stroke and the other is an Evinrude 25 HP ETEC. Both are L/S electric start manual trim motors. The ETEC is newer and a couple of bucks more, but I have had good experiences with other motors from each brand. For about 10 years I ran a Yamaha 40/28 jet that is still running today. I went without a boat for a while and then bought a 16' boat that had an early 1980's Evinrude 35 HP, which was totally reliable.

I'm leaning towards the Yamaha, mostly because the dealer who has both motors is about 10 miles from my house and is a large and successful Yamaha dealer. I don't know where the nearest Evinrude dealer is located? I know from talking with the service manager who showed both motors to me that there is a bit more to maintaining a 4 stroke. I will need a water separator and good clean fuel is critical to a 4 stroke. I can deal with that and at my age and with my skills I'll probably just let the maintenance up to the dealer anyway.

So here is what I'd like to know from people who own either of these motors. What are the good and bad things I need to be aware of before I make my final choice?

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA


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## DaleH (Mar 16, 2019)

No experience with the Yamaha 25hp 4S, but my boat club has a Yam 15hp 4S that is an absolute dog - heavy and slow.

My older brother has an Etec 25hp on a 13’ Whaler and that OB motor has been fantastic, can’t believe how much faster and how smooth it is, plus an excellent power to weight ratio. It is phenomenal on gas and oil and the torque curve on it is unreal, it keeps accelerating no matter how fast you push it! He has had it 6-years and it has been absolutely flawless and he uses every weekend at his Maine lake house from May thru Oct and later.


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## Weldorthemagnificent (Mar 17, 2019)

The Evinrude is going to have more torque. Not knocking Yamaha, they make a good engine. On a boat rated for 40, that torque could be the difference between getting on plane and not. Dependability will be similar. Why not see if the dealer will let you try both. 

Sent from my CLT-L04 using Tapatalk


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## turbotodd (Mar 17, 2019)

ETEC 25hp weighs 150lb and up (150 is the lightest model). It also starts at around $4200. Those two alone turn me off of ETEC's 25hp. Sure it's gonna have more torque. It's 577cc. Now here is my take on that....Yamaha's 25hp is 432cc and makes 25hp out of a 4 stroke. ETEC is a 2 stroke and it's 577cc yet still only 25hp. The current ETEC 25 weighs MORE than the current Yamaha 25 which is a 4 stroke. ETEC touts the fact their motor is a 2 stroke and "less complicated" due to fewer moving parts. That only applies to internal engine parts, the control systems, fuel pumps, etc all add to the complexity of the ETEC where the Yamaha is a simple proven bulletproof 4 stroke.

Now I know you're leaning toward yamaha-and you should be. But here is something worth considering. I understood that you're looking at a used Yamaha? Be aware that year models make a difference and a BIG difference. The 98-06 Yamaha 25hp weighed about 140 lb (manual start 4 stroke short shaft). It was big but it ran really smooth, quiet, and just barely sips gas. It's got a carburetor. The powerhead and part of the control system were partially designed by Mercury to Yamaha's standards. You'll see a Merc part number on the CDI and starter motor. Then the '07-'16 Yamaha 25's got heavier; with the lightest model being 161 lbs. It was a little quieter than the pre-07 models but ever so slightly louder at idle. The starter is bigger, heavier, the flywheel is a little different, the cowling is bigger, and it doesn't allow for bolt-on manual starter like the early models did, well not without changing the cowling....lots of differences but it is STILL an excellent (albeit very heavy) 25hp motor. Then in '17 they completely redesigned the 25. It lost about 50 lbs and went to EFI from a carburetor. It is now a true portable outboard and one of the very few 25's that can actually be considered portable. It's about 10 lb heavier than the old 2 stroke Yamaha. Quiet, starts great with EFI, and yet still maintains a great price for what you get. Cheaper than ETEC 25hp, at least the local dealers here have them cheaper. Electric start short shaft 25 yamaha is around $3800 and the electric start ETEC is around $4500, locally.

With ETEC you have to run THEIR oil and their oil only. It can be "tuned" so that it'll run on anything but it'll get a little smokier at first start up, and it doesn't feel like it's got quite the same power either (at least that's the way it felt to me). Having to have it tuned is inconvenient when there aren't many ETEC dealers closeby. When they first came out, a lot of guys jumped on them at the time because 4 stroke options were really limited as far as weight, but it wasn't 5 years and most of the ETEC guys went back to the heavy 4 strokes locally because of all of the issues with ETEC and lack of support.


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## Tim Murphy (Mar 17, 2019)

Dear Turbotodd,

Thanks for your response. It contained a lot of valuable information, some I already knew but quite a bit that I didn't know. You definitely helped me.

The Yamaha 25 that I am looking at is a 2010 model and it was serviced and maintained since new by the dealer that is selling it. It is clean as a whistle and $ 2499.00 with a new tank and fuel line. The same dealer has the ETEC and it is a 2013. It is also very clean but I don't think there is an Evinrude dealer within 100 miles of me. It is also $ 3199.00. For $ 300.00 more than that, they have a demo 2018 Yamaha 25 HP four stroke that will come with 2 years left on the factory warranty, the same motor in a 2019 is $ 3899.00.

To be totally honest I don't have very many lakes around me that allow gasoline engines, and of those that do several are restricted to 20 HP. The dealer will re-decal both the Yamaha's to show 20 HP. Despite not being very different in weight, the 25 HP ETEC is physically much larger than the Yamahas, the cowling is half again as big. Even with "fake" HP decals it won't look like a 20 HP. It sure is purty though! :wink: 

Like I said I am leaning towards a Yammie, for two reasons, dealer reputation and my past history with a Yamaha product. I've bought 2 used boats from this dealer and while I never had any real issues with either boat I had a few minor issues that were handled quickly and at little or no cost. Service counts to me. I'm thinking I'll be fine with either Yamaha 25 HP and now I am trying to figure out if the EFI and 2 years worth of warranty is worth an additional $ 1000.00? If I run the outboard 25 to 30 hours a year that will be a lot. I've only run the Evinrude 15 HP that I have now 4 times in 2 years. A lot of that is due to my wife who is my main fishing partner working retail for most of those 2 years. She got about 3 weekends off a year and I didn't feel like dragging the boat somewhere to fish by myself. She retired around Thanksgiving last year and now we will have more time to use the boat so I know it will run more.

I think I'll just get the 2010 Yamaha and make it work?

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA


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## Superlucky (Mar 17, 2019)

Why not ask the dealer if you can test drive the Yamaha? It's used already so there should not be much of a problem.

Bill


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## Tim Murphy (Mar 17, 2019)

Superlucky said:


> Why not ask the dealer if you can test drive the Yamaha? It's used already so there should not be much of a problem.
> 
> Bill



Dear Bill,

Ordinarily I would have said what a crazy idea, but actually, that is a great idea! The dealer actually has a lake on their property that use to test run boats.

I told them I'd be in at the end of the month to finalize my decision. I'll ask them if I can do that, and if they say yes then I will do it.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Regards,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA


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## blackshear (Mar 18, 2019)

I just bought the 2019 Yamaha F25 with EFI (tiller handle, electric start, manual tilt) for $3,428 out the door after $300 rebate, so you may want to check around for pricing. i have only put 8 hours on it so far but it is a very impressive engine. I previously owned a 2001 Yamaha F25 and prior to that I had a 2006 Yamaha 25 Two stroke, all three of these motors were used on my 16' War Eagle. Of these three engines the new F25 is by far the best performer, best on fuel economy, the manual tilt is as easy as the two stroke, and it has more power and speed than the other two engines as well. I fish in a shallow lake so the ability to easily tilt the engine was important to me and mixing gas and oil had gotten to be a real pain. The 2001 F25 and 2006 25 two stroke were pretty much trouble free and very good performers but my recommendation would be the new F25 if the extra money is not an issue.


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## Tim Murphy (Mar 24, 2019)

turbotodd said:


> ETEC 25hp weighs 150lb and up (150 is the lightest model). It also starts at around $4200. Those two alone turn me off of ETEC's 25hp. Sure it's gonna have more torque. It's 577cc. Now here is my take on that....Yamaha's 25hp is 432cc and makes 25hp out of a 4 stroke. ETEC is a 2 stroke and it's 577cc yet still only 25hp. The current ETEC 25 weighs MORE than the current Yamaha 25 which is a 4 stroke. ETEC touts the fact their motor is a 2 stroke and "less complicated" due to fewer moving parts. That only applies to internal engine parts, the control systems, fuel pumps, etc all add to the complexity of the ETEC where the Yamaha is a simple proven bulletproof 4 stroke.
> 
> Now I know you're leaning toward yamaha-and you should be. But here is something worth considering. I understood that you're looking at a used Yamaha? Be aware that year models make a difference and a BIG difference. The 98-06 Yamaha 25hp weighed about 140 lb (manual start 4 stroke short shaft). It was big but it ran really smooth, quiet, and just barely sips gas. It's got a carburetor. The powerhead and part of the control system were partially designed by Mercury to Yamaha's standards. You'll see a Merc part number on the CDI and starter motor. Then the '07-'16 Yamaha 25's got heavier; with the lightest model being 161 lbs. It was a little quieter than the pre-07 models but ever so slightly louder at idle. The starter is bigger, heavier, the flywheel is a little different, the cowling is bigger, and it doesn't allow for bolt-on manual starter like the early models did, well not without changing the cowling....lots of differences but it is STILL an excellent (albeit very heavy) 25hp motor. Then in '17 they completely redesigned the 25. It lost about 50 lbs and went to EFI from a carburetor. It is now a true portable outboard and one of the very few 25's that can actually be considered portable. It's about 10 lb heavier than the old 2 stroke Yamaha. Quiet, starts great with EFI, and yet still maintains a great price for what you get. Cheaper than ETEC 25hp, at least the local dealers here have them cheaper. Electric start short shaft 25 yamaha is around $3800 and the electric start ETEC is around $4500, locally.
> 
> With ETEC you have to run THEIR oil and their oil only. It can be "tuned" so that it'll run on anything but it'll get a little smokier at first start up, and it doesn't feel like it's got quite the same power either (at least that's the way it felt to me). Having to have it tuned is inconvenient when there aren't many ETEC dealers closeby. When they first came out, a lot of guys jumped on them at the time because 4 stroke options were really limited as far as weight, but it wasn't 5 years and most of the ETEC guys went back to the heavy 4 strokes locally because of all of the issues with ETEC and lack of support.



Dear Todd,

I just wanted to thank you again for your post. I went back to the dealer and and made a deal on a 2018 "demo" Yamaha 25 HP motor. I had been ready to buy the 2010 motor they have but you convinced me that there were real benefits to the newer motor despite it costing more.

The motor I bought comes with 2 years of factory warranty remaining and when all was said and done I saved $ 600.00 from a 2019 motor, but that only actually worked out to $ 300.00 since there is a $ 300.00 dealer cash back offer on 2019 Yamaha 25's. Still, $ 300.00 was worth keeping in my pocket.

The 2018 I bought is an EFI motor and I like the fact that it is considerably lighter than the 2010 I was going to buy. I also like the redesigned tilt mechanism and the trolling speed adjustment on the throttle handle.

I won't get the motor for a couple of weeks but I am looking forward to getting it. 

Thanks again,

Tim Murphy

Harrisburg, PA


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## turbotodd (Mar 24, 2019)

Tim you've made a wise decision! You will absolutely love the motor.

Couple things to expect first off. The break in period, at least the first couple hours, sucks. It's excruciating. When you read the manual you will see what I'm talking about. Secondly, it has a shake at idle speed when new. It subsides as it breaks in. I've got about 11 hours on mine now and the shake is a lot better than it was when new. It's no big deal, it's just a function of how the engine was built. The earlier F25's had a gigantic steel piston in the "back" of the crankcase which was like a 10 lb piston that ran in an opposite direction as the two cylinders that do the work. I call it a "slug". The slug was a counterbalancer of sorts which made it smooth at idle, but it ate up some power and made the engine weigh more (obviously). It is eliminated on the newer F25's so there's inherently going to be some shake at idle speed. At about 1200 RPM it goes away. It is about 2-3 mph faster than the old F25's probably because of the 50lb weight loss. What's really nice about it is that even though it's redesigned, a lot of the service parts have not changed like spark plugs, oil filter, impeller, etc. They're the same stuff that was used previously. The impeller, propshaft, and some of the lower unit parts are the same as the old twin carb 2 stroke 25's. Oil filter and spark plugs are the same ones that the old F25's used. They did their homework on this new motor-with a LOT of feedback from dealers who got feedback from owners. The 2G F25 was so heavy (electric start long shaft, tiller was 182 lbs on the scale) that it was reclassified as a mid-range instead of a portable. It was so bad that they had to put the tilt assist from the F40 on it because it was absolutely impossible to tilt it from inside the boat without standing up on the transom top and yanking on it with all the might of a strong man. Older folks could NOT tilt it, period. I'm mid 40's and even my old one was tough, to the point where I had to kick the motor in reverse with it "unlocked" and then pull up on it. The new one is like the old 2 stroke. It takes effort but NOTHING like the old ones were, thank goodness!


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## LDUBS (Mar 24, 2019)

Tim Murphy said:


> *I also like the . . . . the trolling speed adjustment on the throttle handle.
> *



I don't have a Yamaha, but have the trolling control switch on my Honda remote throttle. Mine allows adjustment from 800 to 1100 RPM in 50 RPM increments. I think you will like that feature a lot. I sure like mine.


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## moloch16 (Mar 25, 2019)

Yamaha's are superb motors, I fish in the Outer Banks of NC often and talk to a lot of people who make a living on the water, they all have Yamaha. That's a pretty good endorsement right there. I have a 2-stroke 25hp Yammy and love it. The dealer is right, they have made a lot of improvements since 2010, glad you went for the newer motor I think it's worth the extra money.


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