# What's a good setup of an 18 foot jon boat



## lucescoflathead (May 25, 2015)

What's a good boats/ engine combo for ab 18 foot jon boat? I want a welded hull with a tunnel and a tiller jet. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks Todd


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## Ranchero50 (May 25, 2015)

Spend time at your local ramps asking folks with similar boats what they like about there's. Some guys won't want to be bothered but others will tell you anything you want to know.

18' is going to want power to plane quickly. Tiller has a good many drawbacks on that size hull. It's going to limit your draft and weight balance both starting out and stopping. You'll dig deeper on take off and drop lower coming off plane (both opportunities to smack the bottom). As well your low and far back seating position will limit your visibility. All things to consider.


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## lucescoflathead (May 25, 2015)

I'm thinking about the Alweld 1860J. I'd buy the plain boat and customize it. I like the looks of the Fish On tiller console.


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## dhoganjr (May 27, 2015)

1860 is an excellent size, but I would recommend no less than a 150. At bare minimum a 115 if you keep it extremely light. If you overload it with gear or more than 2 people it will struggle coming out of the hole with a 115. 

As Ranchero said, a tiller is not a good option. Coming out of the hole the bow is going to ride high blocking your view for about 10 seconds, which is not good if you are running shallow. Stick steer would be a good option.

I started with a 115 Mercury Fourstroke in 2002 and struggled with it being underpowered for 11 years until I could upgrade it. 

A 115/80 should get 36-38 mph range and a 150/105 should get 40-42. You will use less fuel with a 150 if you don't run wide open everywhere and will have the extra power when you want it.


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## lucescoflathead (May 28, 2015)

Thanks for the advice. I'll keep this in mind.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (May 28, 2015)

Running 38mph in shallow rivers is underpowered? 

Most 1860s I've seen usually run a 90/65 or a 115/80. Rivers here are small and many are too tight to run over 25mph.


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## Brian J (May 28, 2015)

It depends on the particular river that you're planning on running the most.

In our area rivers which are predominately gravel bottomed, the guys who run Current river seem to prefer 1848 and 1852 .080 gauge boat powered by some make of a 60/40. A lot of guys who don't run the HP restricted part of Current river or run the Meramec and Gasconade seem to run 1852 .100 gauge boats with 90/65 or 115/80 on them. Still others who primarily run the middle and lower Gasconade and Osage mainly run 1860 .100 gauge boats and are powered by everything from 150 all the way up to 250 and even 300. 

In regards to the tiller set up, a guy in our local bass club runs an 1852 .080 gauge Blazer sport powered by a 115/80 direct injected (pre-etec) Evinrude and it is an absolute runner. He swears by the tiller and wouldn't have anything but. 

Very few guys run tunnel boats here in MO.


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## lucescoflathead (May 28, 2015)

I talked to the tech guy at Alweld . He said they will not rate a boat over 50 HP if you're going to use a tiller motor.


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## dhoganjr (May 28, 2015)

Yes underpowered, the speed is not the issue. It will run 38 but takes too long to get there. I cruise about 4000 rpm's what my 115 used to run wot.. I'm on plane in the length of the boat and have all the reserve power I need in tight turns. I can also take whoever and whatever without affecting performance. 

More hp the shallower it will run. I run the Upper Black River with frequent areas of 1-2 inches of water and mostly tight bends with trees, logs, and stumps in the middle or spread across the river. Just because you have the extra power doesn't mean you always use it. But it is always there when you need it, and it can save your butt.


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## Lil' Blue Rude (May 29, 2015)

dhoganjr said:


> Yes underpowered, the speed is not the issue. It will run 38 but takes too long to get there. I cruise about 4000 rpm's what my 115 used to run wot.. I'm on plane in the length of the boat and have all the reserve power I need in tight turns. I can also take whoever and whatever without affecting performance.
> 
> More hp the shallower it will run. I run the Upper Black River with frequent areas of 1-2 inches of water and mostly tight bends with trees, logs, and stumps in the middle or spread across the river. Just because you have the extra power doesn't mean you always use it. But it is always there when you need it, and it can save your butt.


What he said. :mrgreen:


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## duckfish (May 29, 2015)

Since you are in PA like me, my advice would be don't exceed the boat manufacturer's/ USCG rating plate Hp. If you are obviously over, most PFBC waterways patrolmen are going to write you a ticket, you will insurance issues, and quite possibly registration issues. I suspect that the guys that can run the high powered boats in other states also don't have our same shallow water issues, ie, VW sized rocks & boulders that will destroy your hull and sink you (quite possibly kill you) if struck at high speeds. I don't know the Allegheny at all, but my home water is the Susquehanna and I'm here to tell you, on much of the river I run, you couldn't pay me to run 30+ MPH.

I have a 19', 66" bottom boat with a 115/80. It is plenty sufficient, even with 4 guys, 2 dogs and a heavy load of duck decoys. A 90/65 on an 1860 is a fine match-up. An over-sized motor on any hull could only run skinnier if all that motor weight is somehow off-set with weight forward so the boat floats level at rest and planes level. Even with perfect balance, the more weight, the more the hull drafts at rest, so I'm not buying the "runs shallower" comment. Those are my opinions based on 15+ years of jet outboard boats here in PA.


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## dhoganjr (May 30, 2015)

I have also ran jets for 15+ years. 

Just to be clear, my boat is an 02' Alweld 1860 commercial hull with 28" sides. A commercial hull has no weight limits and no hp limits. Water Patrol and Conservation Agents never give me an issue and think it is a cool setup when I have been checked by them. Insurance is not an issue either as the coast guard tag states it is a commercial hull. I ordered it with 3 knee braces to support a 250 when I could eventually afford one. I started with an 02' Mercury 115 Fourstroke that weighed around 400 lbs and struggled with it for 11 years. The 250 weighs 505 lbs. 

Most of the rivers I run are clear gravel bottom streams. The Gasconade is usually clear but does have the vw size boulders and a lot of chunk rock and I usually run it at night after gigging during the winter. Same with the St.Francois River except that it is usually dingy or stained most of the time. The Black River is mostly gravel with rock ledges in a few areas and boulders in the upper areas. 

The areas that are clear of rocks I can run 2" water and not touch. Less than 2" I can slide through if it's just gravel, most of the time the grates never pick up a rock. She runs flat, I have a 24 volt tm up front with 2 group 27 batteries under the front deck. When you have enough hp a 60" or wider hull will basically ride it's own wave through areas smaller boats and smaller hp motors will hit bottom in, suck rocks and gravel up to the grate and have to stop. Been there done that many times with the 115. Areas I couldn't get to before are not a problem now.

Knowing what I know now I would never have started with a 115, I would have went with a 150 which is what an Alweld 1860 non commercial hull is rated for. The new Mercury 150 Fourstroke would be an excellent choice. But in my case why go with a 150 when I can have a 250. I also use less gas with the 250 than I did the 115.

If you ever make it to Missouri send me a message. I'll take you for a ride and show you what she is capable of.


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## lucescoflathead (May 30, 2015)

Thanks for the info. I taled to Alweld and they told me there 20 hull is avaliabe as a Commercial Hull. I didn't ask them about the 1860. Sounds like a good option.


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## dhoganjr (May 30, 2015)

Just so you know, a commercial hull does not have any floatation foam. If something bad happens, (rock hit, caught in a bad storm, other boat wakes, etc) she's going to the bottom. If you go this route at least get dual bilge pumps, the biggest you can get. If doesn't take a very big hole to overwhelm them either.

Just want to make sure you're aware of it.


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## reedjj (May 30, 2015)

At some pt the extra weight hanging off the back has got to cause an issue. Im all for big HP but a 500lb 200+ hp motor on a 1860..

So much for all the advice about "keep it light".

Alot of guys running 1852 with a 60/40 just fine. 
As an example... Lowe, G3, and Xpress all have a Max HP rating of 115/80 on thier 1860 jets.


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## fishbum (May 30, 2015)

Think Dan has it right! I have had 5 1860 hulls, tracker, G3. Alumacraft, ect. All were two stroke
The 115 ran fine at about 33. But went with 150 later and loved it! 
Not only power when you need it but I could run 30 at 3900 rpm getting better gas mileage that the 115 running flat out all the time! Might look at SeaArk also
1860 hull is about $4400. I just bought the 2072 Sea ark bare hull. .125 gage
And pair $6100. Got an older 200 on it
We will see how it does!


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## JL8Jeff (May 30, 2015)

If you have the option, the SeaArk 1872 looks like a really nice setup and being as wide as it is, it floats pretty high in the water. We have one around here and it's a center console but still floats pretty even. If it was a forward console it would be even better.


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## duckfish (May 30, 2015)

Don't get me wrong Dan, I'm not criticizing your rig. I'm sure it's cool and fun to have all that power at your disposal. I would enjoy having those capabilities at my disposal when I'm running big, deep water on the few occasions it's not so rough you couldn't do it anyway.

I just want to make sure the OP understands that you don't "need" to spend that kinda money nor have that kind of Hp to have a very serviceable and enjoyable boat. Also that it's not a good idea to exceed a boat's rated Hp for several reasons. Obviously for the un-rated boat options out there... that's a mute point.

I've had under-powered boats, yes it's an annoyance. But any of the major manufacturer's boats with the max rated HP or in some cases even 1 step below is not considered by most to be under-powered.

My boat is pretty much always "heavy". I have 3 batteries, 24v trolling motor, 2 anchors, a ditch bag, full tool set, and a bunch of other items stuffing all 4 of my compartments at all times. With 2 guys, full fishing gear, food & beer cooler, fish cooler full of ice, and a full livewell I cruise 23 mph at 4300 rpm and get 4.0 - 4.3 mpg. I run 5400 rpm on the pins and do right around 31 mph. Just me & the dog in the boat I can do 36 mph. That's with a 1966 boat with a 6* deadrise, so it would take a lot more Hp to see the kind of speeds your boat (that appears to be or close to a true flat bottom) is capable of. Does it take me more room to plane.... yes. I just plan accordingly. Can't say for sure, but I'd guess the skinniest I could run for a sustained distance would be around 8" - 10". In my younger days I put enough holes & dents in boats to realize I was perfectly happy to stick below 25 mph on the river. Being able to plane with all my normal load plus 4 guys (3 in saltwater), 2 dogs & decoys, I certainly don't consider my boat under-powered.

I would love to see a video of your boat running in a measured 2" of water. I've never had a flat bottom, so running that skinny has never been an option for me. I'm sure it's a thrill.


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## dhoganjr (May 30, 2015)

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=37500

Here are some videos I posted earlier this year. That was the first run of the year before I put the tm back on so it bounces a little more than normal. It will run shallower but I need someone else with me to take the video, I was running and holding the phone with these.

It is a true flat bottom. I usually have the tm and 2 batteries under the front deck along with a toolbox, dry box, on board battery charger, big freaking come along, and first aid kit under there. Anchors front and rear. Under the rear seat are spot lights, more tools, and everything else I think I might need. Under the rear deck is 2 -12 gallon tanks, a 3 gallon oil tank and starting battery. 

On the pic with the gps is 54.2 miles round trip and 10.8 gallons used on the MercMonitor, which is accurate to +/- 0.1, for an average of a little over 5 mpg. I hit my best top speed of 51.3. That was mostly cruising 3500-4000 rpms, which is 30-35, backing off where needed. 

During our winter gigging season I put a iron pipe rail on the front deck, pic to follow, with 2 400w metal halides and a 1000w metal halide. Ballasts go under the front deck and a 2800w Yamaha generator on the back deck. Usually have 4 guys and run back to the ramp at night with 80 fish. The 250 still jumps right on plane without a struggle. When I had the 115 with this load I had to have at least 100 yards to hopefully plane out enough to make the riffles back to the ramp or float it back. I busted a shoe on chunk rock doing this and bumped rocks several times. If I would let off any or attempt a tight turn it would drop 6" in the water and that is where the damage starts.

I have run 49 mph several times running across the lake in heavy chop. Have to back off for bigger waves and it is a little rough. When the pleasure boats are out and I have to cross the lake I trim down a little to pull the bow down and can maintain 35 without getting beat up too bad. The whale tail helps considerably in those conditions by dragging the rear and pulling the bow down to plow through the waves. 

A 115 will push it and do ok, but for me it is tremendously under powered. I will never recommend going less than max rated hp on a hull, especially for a jet. It is cheaper to start with it than to figure out it doesn't work and have to try to trade, sell, or upgrade later. Nobody is ever going to come back later and tell me I said it would work and it is underpowered.

What I can tell the op, try to get a test ride before buying if possible. Figure out how much weight you're going to be carrying. Add up everything hull, motor, gas tank or tanks and gas, trolling motor, batteries, anchors, fishing equipment, and how many people most of the time. It adds up quick and jets are extremely weight sensitive. 

Here's with the rail.


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## Djknyork (May 30, 2015)

Assuming you're going to run the Susquehannain and you wanna run fast and shallow in the summer or early duck or goose seasons here's my advice - if you have the $$ - get a rockproof and be done with it lol. If had the cash I would've. Lol 
To answer your question if it was mine I'd go forward console to see rocks better & a 90/65 or a 115/80 if you got a pile of buddies ur hauling. You could could still run that size with a 90/65 tiller but it'll squat n you may need pods installed to help get on plane quicker (n pods are a lot cheaper than getting a larger outboard). Also if you plan on running shallow at speed get 2 of the biggest bilges you can find n prey you won't ever need em, as you know, there are very very few gravel bars on that river it's all bedrock n ledges.


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## amk (May 30, 2015)

For all the money you'd spend on a 150 out board jet you could get a supercharged 4 stroke 200 plus hp seadoo with closed loop cooling and have a sweet azz boat... Just saying


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## dhoganjr (May 30, 2015)

Would be cool but then I would have to have the equipment and time to do it. Or have PSG build me one.

I have the set-up I always wanted though, just took me 11 years to complete it.


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## duckfish (May 31, 2015)

Cool videos.

Must be fun to have rivers you can run that far. On the Susky you can typically go 5 - 6 miles before you run into the next dam or rock ledge that nothing bigger than a canoe crosses. If the level is way up, you can run further, but that's when it gets real dangerous. The river claims the lives of several hunters/fishermen every year.

We don't run jets as much to really run skinny as to just not be replacing props & lowers units constantly. This should give you an idea why I don't care to be able to go 40+ mph.


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## Lennyg3 (Sep 6, 2015)

I run a 225 jet on the susky and do pretty well. The best part of a big jet is, as already mentioned, float to plane in one boat length and having reserve power. Plus I can run at 4k rpms right at 30mph when I was redline on my 115/80 to do near the same. If you are planning on running the susky down around Harrisburg, I would get a rockproof, but also understand that rockproof does not really mean that. UHMW has little impact absorption properties. It is designed to make the hull slide over rocks rather than grab as it would with aluminum and provide you with a greater margin of error than a bare hull would. Treat it like a tank and you will be replacing the hull sooner or later, especially down that way.


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## archery68 (Sep 20, 2015)

I have owned 3 flat bottom jets through the years. Just purchased a new setup recently to use primarily on the current river in Missouri. We have motor restriction on the section of current river I run (40 hp) so I went with the mercury 60/40 four stroke . I went with an 1852. My first 18 ft, other two were 17. It is a blazer ss and tiller steering. All three I have owned have been tiller and would not own a non tiller boat. Gives me more room for other people and uncluttered. 12 inch extended front deck, aluminum perforated floor(a must have), two live wells under rear seats and deck lids over fuel tank and starter battery. First time out I gps and without trolling motor and battery, 28-29 upstream and it hit 32 downstream. That is plenty fast on the river. Gets on plane quick, very pleased with how quick it gets up and in plane with the four stroke. Yesterday I took entire family, huge cooler loaded down and all the the things that 3 females need plus all of our fishing gear. Went the same upstream, 28.5 and it hit 31 one time coming downstream. Way pleased with that. I hear people say you can't see running a tiller, I do not agree with that. The driver seat in my boat is higher than the other back seat for that reason , before the boat place started my boat they had me sit in another tiller boat to see how it all would fit me . I hear other people say that it's not safe to run a tiller with more than a 20 hp. I do not agree with that. In Missouri you see more steering wheel set ups yes , but still a ton of tiller steering. I like how quick I can turn. I will not own a river boat without a tiller.


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## Sully (Sep 22, 2015)

Nice boat. =D>


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## archery68 (Sep 22, 2015)

If u are referring to me, thank you. I am really pleased with it. Fast enough, plenty of room, easy on gas, great to fish out of and my young daughters love it.


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## Sully (Sep 24, 2015)

archery68 said:


> If u are referring to me, thank you. I am really pleased with it. Fast enough, plenty of room, easy on gas, great to fish out of and my young daughters love it.


I cut my teeth on a tiller, love them, we ran the Big river for many years putting in at Brownsford access. The one I have now is a wheel so this is going to be a learning curve for me, but I like it.

Mike


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## archery68 (Sep 24, 2015)

Yeah I learned to run a boat that had tiller. It's what I like and am used to them. Loving the new mercury, like the power trim, and really like where it's located on the handle.


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## Sully (Sep 25, 2015)

archery68 said:


> Yeah I learned to run a boat that had tiller. It's what I like and am used to them. Loving the new mercury, like the power trim, and really like where it's located on the handle.


 I'm going to break our new one in Saturday, big step up for us going from a 40 to a 250. :lol:


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## archery68 (Sep 25, 2015)

Oh my that is huge change. That's exciting stuff. I will prolly always have a 40 cause of the motor restrictions where I go. Good luck with the new toy, enjoy!!!!!


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## archery68 (Sep 25, 2015)

Sully, 
Saw pic of your boat in another thread, nice looking ride. Have fun breaking it in. Enjoy!!!


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