# Engineering Fuel In Outboards?



## RedHatRedNeck (May 7, 2017)

Anyone use the pre mixed 40:1/50:1 (2 strokers) or 4 cycle (4strokers) small engine fuel you find by the lawn mowers and weed eaters in an outboard? If so what were your results compared to regular pump gas with and/or without ethanol?


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## Johnny (May 7, 2017)

I asked my lawnmower shop the same question.
he said - - - - one is $25.00 a gallon - the other is $2.65 a gallon.
if you buy non-ethanol fuel (95oct) and add a little fuel stabilizer
with the appropriate 2-cycle oil mix and you can make your own [lawn equipment mix].
other than that - I have never even considered it [for an outboard].


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## RedHatRedNeck (May 7, 2017)

Yeah the $20-25/gallon is a bit crazy. A $5 quart bottle will last me more than a month of weed eating unless I get tired of looking at my neighbors side of the ditch he doesn't seem to care to weed eat; then it's a month at best. Mainly was thinking about the smaller motors with internal tanks. 

By the way Johnny want to say I enjoyed your article on the pressure treated wood a while back.


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## Pappy (May 7, 2017)

You do NOT want to run air cooled 2-stroke oil in a water cooled outboard.


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## RedHatRedNeck (May 7, 2017)

Pappy said:


> You do NOT want to run air cooled 2-stroke oil in a water cooled outboard.



Completely ignorant when it comes to things mechanical. Can you educate me on why?


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## gatorglenn (May 8, 2017)

RedHatRedNeck said:


> Anyone use the pre mixed 40:1/50:1 (2 strokers) or 4 cycle (4strokers) small engine fuel you find by the lawn mowers and weed eaters in an outboard? If so what were your results compared to regular pump gas with and/or without ethanol?





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## Stumpalump (May 8, 2017)

A nice strong quart can of fuel that won't go bad that is stashed in your boat may get you home one day.


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## onthewater102 (May 8, 2017)

RedHatRedNeck said:


> Pappy said:
> 
> 
> > You do NOT want to run air cooled 2-stroke oil in a water cooled outboard.
> ...



Designed for very different operating temperatures. Air cooled engines naturally run hotter - therefore the oil you mix for an air cooled engine will be thicker than it needs to be when used in a marine engine that has water cooling it at all times because it will be at a much lower temperature in the marine engine. As a result you'll get oil building up and burning which will give you carbon buildup in your cylinders and wear them out faster.


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## CedarRiverScooter (May 8, 2017)

Don't disagree with carbon buildup, but that would normally be in exhaust ports. I don't think carbon wears out the cylinder.


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## Stumpalump (May 8, 2017)

All the new oils are backwards comparable for air and water cooled engines. There is no difference anymore.


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## RedHatRedNeck (May 8, 2017)

Thanks


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## Zum (May 8, 2017)

Stumpalump said:


> All the new oils are backwards comparable for air and water cooled engines. There is no difference anymore.


Really??
Guess I'm Google bound...always was a difference....needed to be rated tc3 for water cooled

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## Pappy (May 8, 2017)

"onthewater" came pretty darned close. 
The flash points between a TCW3 and a 2-stroke air cooled oil are different. Think the viscosity is about the same between the two. He nailed it on the operating temps between the two styles of engines. 
This will indeed create excessive carbon in the exhaust ports, piston tops, and in the cylinder head.


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## RedHatRedNeck (May 9, 2017)

Pappy said:


> "onthewater" came pretty darned close.
> The flash points between a TCW3 and a 2-stroke air cooled oil are different. Think the viscosity is about the same between the two. He nailed it on the operating temps between the two styles of engines.
> This will indeed create excessive carbon in the exhaust ports, piston tops, and in the cylinder head.



Thanks


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## Stumpalump (May 9, 2017)

All BS. New oils burn complete. This ain't the 70's. Want proof? Get the MSDS sheet and call that number. It's a direct line to the oil companies laboratories. I called it. Today's oils are so good they can be used in air or water cooled engines. I have not seen a coked up two stroke in a decade. All I see is squeaky clean.


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## Zum (May 9, 2017)

I still dont know...
Why do some newer outboards(2 stroke) call for certain oils...warranty void if not used?
While I agree that newer oils have additives that help oils burn clean, some will probably have to reach certain temperatures before that happens.
I'm sticking with buying the proper symboled oils...one less headache


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## DaisyCutter (May 17, 2017)

Pappy said:


> "onthewater" came pretty darned close.
> The flash points between a TCW3 and a 2-stroke air cooled oil are different. Think the viscosity is about the same between the two. He nailed it on the operating temps between the two styles of engines.
> This will indeed create excessive carbon in the exhaust ports, piston tops, and in the cylinder head.




Additionally, water cooled 2-strokes generally have tighter tolerances than air-cooled. This is because the water cooled 2-strokes have a narrower band of operating temperature (mentioned above) and shouldn't need the extra 0.001-0.002" slop to keep the piston from making the big squeak when it gets a little hot, like in an air-cooled application.

Typically the piston is aluminum, and the cylinder bore is iron. When the temperature goes up a given amount, aluminum expands more than iron does. *Squeak*

Big open-class air-cooled dirtbikes of the late 70s and early 80s were notorious for seized pistons. Heat expansion on a big 500cc piston is considerable. So we'd cut the bore a smidge oversize and allow for a thorough warm-up to mitigate piston slap and cracked piston skirts.

Home Depot 2-cycle oil is fine for a McCullough weed whacker. But I'd never skimp on cheap oil for an expensive 2-stroke.

Then there are crank seals, the other bane of 2-stroke motors. A bad wet-side seal can leak crankcase oil and make excessive smoke and foul plugs and/or the ignition side seal can leak air and cause the engine to run lean, hot, and cook itself. Many a "brand new top end" was destroyed because the old crank seals weren't replaced when the new piston and rings went in. But that's another topic...


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## RedHatRedNeck (May 17, 2017)

Thanks


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## New River Rat (May 18, 2017)

Had my 25 Johnson since '97 (brand new). Never used anything but the cheap stuff, mostly weedwacker type. Ran like a charm yesterday. Can't believe everything you read.....


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## Stumpalump (May 18, 2017)

New River Rat said:


> Had my 25 Johnson since '97 (brand new). Never used anything but the cheap stuff, mostly weedwacker type. Ran like a charm yesterday. Can't believe everything you read.....


Ding! I love weedwacker oil as well. It's 25 cents at yard sales and it's all forward and backward compatible for air or water cooled if it was made in this century. I scored a gallon of snow mobile oil for a few bucks on clearance. Never understood why the lake did not freeze?


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## Mainia (May 21, 2017)

Zum said:


> I still dont know...
> Why do some newer outboards(2 stroke) call for certain oils...warranty void if not used?
> While I agree that newer oils have additives that help oils burn clean, some will probably have to reach certain temperatures before that happens.
> I'm sticking with buying the proper symboled oils...one less headache




While we have the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that states that IF the manufacture states that you can ONLY use their oil for warranty otherwise they will deny a warranty claim, they have to by law provide that warranty oil to you for FREE. 

So as far as an OMC E-Tec motor, as especially the advanced option to use 100:1 oil. You would need to find an oil that states it is approved for E-Tec 100:1 option. I think Amsoil has one. If you use another oil yes you would void your warranty. This is because this said 100:1 has an advance additive package that is speced to that application of 100:1 and you need enough extra additives and an advanced base stock to provide lubrication at a very reduced volume of oil. 

Example: So I can by law take a brand new Honda Accord right off the lot and dump the Honda CVT trans oil and put in Redline or Amsoil CVT oil and if the trans tanks 24,000 miles later, Honda by law still has to warranty my CVT. As long as that oil can meet a industry criteria that states it is an equivalent or better. And NO Honda and every manufacturer will NEVER approve another oil. So the only 2 manufactures of aftermarket oil I would trust to have BETTER oil then the OEMS is Redline and Amsoil. Below is what manufactures that Amsoil says their oil is equivalent or better then OEM and as a whole, and can be legally used as an alternative to, and in most cases what sub-standard OEM oil. 

APPLICATIONS
AMSOIL Synthetic CVT Fluid is recommended for belt- and chain-type continuously variable transmissions requiring the following:
Audi/VW TL 52180, G 052 180, G 052 516 • BMW 8322 0 136 376, 8322 0 429 154, EZL 799A • Daihatsu Amix CVTF-DC, CVTF-DFE • Dodge/Jeep NS-2, CVTF+4®, MOPAR® CVT 4
• Ford CVT23, CFT30, WSS-M2C933-A, Motorcraft® XT-7-QCFT, MERCON® C • GM/Saturn DEX-CVT, CVTF I-Green2 799A, ZF CVT V1 • Mitsubishi DiaQueen CVTF-J1, CVTF-J4
• Nissan NS-1, NS-2, NS-3 • Punch EZL 799A • Shell Green 1V • Subaru e-CVTF, i-CVTF, Lineartronic® CVTF, K0425Y0710, Green 2 • Toyota/Lexus TC, 




I am not a fan of OEM oils, especially in transmissions. Transmission oils I feel need to be a group 4 to a group 5 Ester based oil. When some ATFs like Toyota WS are group 2/3 semi-synthetic oil. One exception is Hyundai after 2013 1/3 were they use a factory group 5 Ester based ATF oil right from the factory, why you ask......because that is when they started designing transmission in house and ANY trans engineer if having a choice would want to run an Ester based group 5 ATF if allowed to by the manufacture. 

.


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## mrdrh99 (May 29, 2017)

Yeah I thought all that stuff was for air cooled motors only!


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