# cmc pt 35



## bcbouy (May 27, 2016)

so i'm going to repower my g3 from my 2012 yamaha 15 short shaft to either a tohatsu 25 or an etec 25.the only issue is i can't get an etec with a power trim in a short shaft but i can with a tohatsu.i'm really tired of yanking the motor up 5 or 6 times a weekend,and the wife can't lift a 25 at all,so my options for an e tec are a 20" with a jack plate or a 15 with a cmc power tilt.anyone running either a jack or an aftermarket power tilt? pros? cons?.i'm on the fence,and i'm not entirely sure i can even fit the boat in the garage with the offset on either,but i can get creative.i'm leaning toward the e tec if i can get the p/t issue sorted out, but it may end up costing me an extra grand,which swings me back to the tohatsu.i really need to hear from you j/p,p/t users.


----------



## richg99 (May 28, 2016)

Tahatsus are fine, well-regarded engines. They make many of the smaller Mercurys, who re-brands them. 

richg99


----------



## turbotodd (May 31, 2016)

Couple things come to mind with the PT35. 

One, the lower bracket-where the lift actuator is held-is junk. They ALWAYS break on the PT35's. Every one of them. It can be fixed by welding a gusset to it, and that will fix it once and for all-but it also adds cost to the unit, and the aggravation of having to wait for a welder to do it. If he don't do it right, it'll break...and CMC won't help if it's been modified.

Two, the actuator itself-it is offshore sourced. When it fails, and it will someday, not a single part is available for it-I guess it's made out of unobtanium or something because CMC does not service it. So you get to buy a new one, right around $400 last time I checked (just the actuator and pigtail).

Three-the relays are JUNK. CMC wires it with a pair of relays and a ton of wiring. I cut every one of them off and put a winch contactor on it, which greatly simplifies the wiring and greatly improves it's durability. To my knowledge, not one contactor has died. The factor-installed relays are a different story-almost a 100% failure rate. I think I can remember one that hasn't come back, but I am not sure he owns it anymore....

Other than that, I like the CMC. It accomplishes two things. One, allows you to raise the engine higher and two, you get power tilt/trim. A win-win situation. That said, there are a few things I don't like about the CMC-and I've addressed those, if that stuff is taken care of right off the bat, it's a great unit. If you're set on using the smaller PT&T unit, then maybe look at the Panther brand unit, which I've not heard anything bad out of-but I've only put 2 on. CMC's, probably close to 90. It's cheaper and therefore more popular, but you pay for it when the relays die when the motor's tilted up and won't go down, or you're drifting down river and come into shallow water and can't tilt up. Crunch.

The PT130, however, doesn't have that weakling lower clevis bracket. Those don't break on the 130's. But they still have the junk wiring and relay setup, and the actuator is the exact same as the PT35. And the 130 is heavier and costs a good bit more once you get the clamp on bracket. But it DOES use a standard BIA bolt pattern, where the PT35 does not, so after a PT35 is bolted to the transom and you decide later on to put a 25hp on it, with PT&T, you'll have to drill some new holes in the transom to bolt it on.

As far as the Tohatsu, I've run a 25hp Tohatsu, and honestly I liked the fact that it was 3 cylinder. It was quiet, and really smooth. But it was a dog, as far as power. It replaced a 20hp Tohatsu on a 1448, and it ran exactly the same speed and really didn't come out of the hole any better. Same speed-23 mph. Beyond that, I liked it. 

The ETEC, expensive, and heavy-for a 2 stroke (160 lbs or thereabouts). "Expensive" meaning initial cost. I think close to $5000 for a 2 stroke electric start version. Don't make no sense to me to spend more money on one, that doesn't weigh much less than a 4 stroke. I guess if you must have the 2 stroke for whatever reason. But I don't want to get into the 2 stroke vs 4 stroke arguement again...everyone has their own opinions on the deal and I do too, and that's AFTER owning both.


----------



## bcbouy (Jun 1, 2016)

ok,that's what i'm talking about.so it's a pos. i'm not interested in redesigning a $500+ unit.i'll look into the panther if i decide on the e tec.i'm not pro or con over 2/4 stroke.i am pro/con over ease/cost of maintenance.my yami 2 smoke has had a leg oil replacement,thats it,in 3.5 years.still running the original sparkplug.i really like the relative simplicity of the 2 stroke. many thanks.


----------



## turbotodd (Jun 2, 2016)

The relative simplicity of a 2 stroke......those days are GONE. 

The ETEC. In it's simplest form is a 2 stroke, and once we remove the high pressure pump, wiring, ECU, sensors, onboard tank, evaporative emissions control system, high pressure direct injectors and all the rest of the complication, you have a basic 2 stroke engine.

I don't work on ETEC's. I don't work on many Yamaha's either, but we sell them at work. Under 100hp, most are 25hp and 40hp. Rarely do I get a 25 in for anything but regular service...which if you do it yourself, costs $20 or less unless it needs an impeller-and those are about $30. I think we've sold about 11 or 12 40hp motors this year so far, all but 3 were jet foots. I bought my F25 about 6 or 7 years ago and have not looked back but the one time when I picked up a 25ESH (2 stroke twin carb 25hp yamaha), which was light, but I found that I liked the F25 better. There was no speed or time-to-plane difference to speak of. Only difference is the oil change. 5 minutes....actually I do it in less time now by using a fluid evacuator, I timed my F25 when I did it last week...oil and filter change in 43 seconds. It took longer to pour the new oil in than to remove the old and unscrew the filter....oh and by the way, no mess in the pan. There's a trick to it. Don't start the engine before removing the old filter. No mess.

What I hate about the ETEC's is the marketing campaign. "Simplicity", "Light weight", "lack of maintenance"....and all 3 are PARTIALLY true, but not the whole truth.


----------



## bcbouy (Jun 6, 2016)

I don't understand your comment.its contradictory.compared to a 4 stroke,the 2 stroke is simplicity..less moving parts are better.


----------



## turbotodd (Jun 10, 2016)

The ETEC has just as many moving parts as most smaller 4 stroke motors. That is all marketing gimmick. The high pressure fuel pump contains moving parts. They don't count those parts as "moving parts" in their marketing. 

The ETEC's marketing department is grasping for the last straw, in that they're trying to get the die-hard 2 stroke lovers to buy them.....apparently they refuse to switch over to the 4 stroke motors. Or at least that's what it looks like to me. 

The ETEC's have to run real lean in order to meet emissions standards. A tank of bad fuel can wreak havoc with the motor. Also with the ETEC, if you plan on running anything but their proprietary oil, you have to have the motor reprogrammed. Of course it can be reprogrammed from the get-go and you can run anything you want, but your fuel and oil usage rates increase as compared to running their oil. Just some food for thought, for what it's worth.

It's been my experience that the 4 stroke motors are proven, simpler overall (how??? "more moving parts"), easy to work on, etc. The ETEC marketing department is, once again, catering to those who are familiar with the 2 stroke motors of the past, but they fail to mention the complexity of their system...and they fail to mention that their "lighter weight" is only by a few lbs....again..defeats the purpose of a 2 stroke, in my mind. And they're expensive for such a "simple" motor.

If I have seen anything good out of an ETEC, it's that they're a little faster than the similar 4 stroke. 1 to 1.5 mph typically from what I've seen. I don't know about y'all but if I'm running wide open on the lake, I don't notice 1 mph unless I'm racing someone who is running 1mph less than I am.


----------



## DaleH (Jun 10, 2016)

bcbouy said:


> I don't understand your comment.its contradictory.compared to a 4 stroke,the 2 stroke is simplicity..less moving parts are better.





turbotodd said:


> The ETEC has just as many moving parts as most smaller 4 stroke motors. That is all marketing gimmick. The high pressure fuel pump contains moving parts. They don't count those parts as "moving parts" in their marketing.


Well, there IS a lot of truth to the 'simpler 2-stroke' design when you compare the # of moving parts on top of the cylinder head. I forget the 2-stroke count exactly, but it was under 10 and yet on a 4-stroke (with the valve train et al) I recall it was over 180.

I do know a fishing guide who "stubbed the toe" of the prop on his new Suzuki 70hp motor. Bent prop ... and TRASHED powerhead ... brand new motor, just out of the break-in period. 

Now I had a big Suzi 250hp and she was awesome, quiet, great on fuel (offshore 3+ ton boat got 2.5 mpg!) and powerful. But there is some concerns about 4-strokes, cams/cranks and valve trains as they age, especially if the motor has timing belts, not chains. As to squeeze the performance out of 4-strokes, most are _interference fit _motors. Can you imagine the damage when an old belt finally gives up the ghost :shock: ?

Meaning ... you will NEVER see 30-40 year old (or older!) 4-strokes around on the back of transoms like you see old vintage OMCs and Mercs ...

My info is just a mix of fact and opinion ... so I just say use what you want and use what you will and am not trying to start a '2 vs 4' debate. For it's still a free country ... _well, at least until Hillary gets in :wink: that is ... _


----------



## super5 (Jun 11, 2016)

Turbo,
do you have a photo of the gusset you are 
mentioning earlier. I also googled winch contactors and saw 
the cost was between 65 and 100.00 for warn and others. 
Does this sound about right?
Thanks,Super5


----------



## turbotodd (Jun 13, 2016)

super5 said:


> Turbo,
> do you have a photo of the gusset you are
> mentioning earlier. I also googled winch contactors and saw
> the cost was between 65 and 100.00 for warn and others.
> ...




The KFI contactor is the one I use. https://www.amazon.com/KFI-Products-ATV-CONT-Replacement-Contactor/dp/B0027UPPK6/191-2272969-7558263?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0

Picture of broken CMC PT35: https://www.customgheenoe.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4307

That is where they break, almost always. Other than that (and the relays) they're pretty bulletproof for the most part.


----------



## bcbouy (Jun 13, 2016)

after debating a while i've decided i want a 4 stroke. ordering and putting a deposit on the tohatsu electric start/power trim after work tomorrow.i want smooth,quiet and less smoke than my yamaha.no point in having a pair of 2 smokers.i'll still have the yami for hp restricted lakes.


----------

