# 1967 Lund S-16 rebuild



## mikejjmay (Mar 19, 2018)

Good day all! First off thank you all for this excellent forum, first time posting but definitely been watching/following threads on here for a while now. So much information and knowledge to be gained!

Having one kid already, and another on the way, really pushed me to get a boat so that I could experience fishing with my kids. Some of my best memories from childhood were getting up at 5 and helping my grandpa prep the boat, and making that trip to the lake to get out there as the sun came up and fish all morning. Really some of the best memories.

Having 2 kids though means a budget, so i was looking for a budget base that i could turn into a fishing machine. Something light, that i could launch by myself. Outboard was a must, preferably a tiller (again, in the vein of keeping everything simple). If a small light outboard breaks, you can just lift it off the boat and take it in. Worst case, you can just buy a new small outboard and throw it on the same boat. 

Was looking for an 18', but 18' old open tin boats are harder to come by, 16' is everywhere! So i saw one and i jumped. 1967 (yikes!) Lund S-16. New paint job on the outside (give it a 7/10, but better than i coulda done), nothing done to the inside - a nice blank canvas! The motor is sweet - 25hp Merc XD, runs amazing, first pull start after sitting all winter. Trailer was rough, but came for free essentially with the boat. Issues with the trailer are an easy fix.

Plans to come are trailer reconditioning and safety issues, casting deck, removing a middle section of a bench to make a walk-through, floor, bow V mount for bow troller, new wiring, and then outfitting it for fishing. 

Already replaced the rotten tires, rewired the trailer, and "de-tilted" the trailer. The pivot bolt on the trailer had almost worn through all the steel aft of its hole, creating an immense danger for a break/collapse. Since i was never going to use the pivot function, i drilled and inserted a 1/2" grade 8 bolt through the frame closer toward the bow, locking it in place and making it a rigid trailer. Worked well. 

Im sure there will be many questions to come, just dealing with the state now to get her all legal before the money starts flowing!


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## mikejjmay (Mar 19, 2018)

Alright so got my letter from the State of MN saying it was never titled there (PS WI is pretty crazy on boats without titles, even if they were built in 1967, MN statutes say they don't title anything before 79, and you have a signed registration and bill of sale), they still need verification from MN it was never titled there. All the paperwork is in the mail, so hopefully a quick turnaround.

Planning ahead - the casting deck supports will be aluminum, with a ply deck covered in vinyl or carpet. Local supplier had 1/8"thick angle aluminum, which i know has been used with some success (i would prefer 1/4" thick but they don't have it. They also have 1/16' thick square aluminum tubing.

Which is stronger? The power of Google seems to have the consensus being the box tubing, while thinner, is stronger than the angle aluminum. Thoughts? Anyone use 1/16" square tubing?

**edit** i found a local supplier that has 6061 structural aluminum, 1.5 x 1.5 x 3/16 thick angle is $48 per 25ft, so ill likely go that route. 1.5 x 1.5 x 1/8 is $33 per 25ft


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## water bouy (Mar 19, 2018)

I used 1" x 1/8" angle which feels like more than enough on 10" or 12" centers.


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## jasper60103 (Mar 19, 2018)

Welcome aboard and look forward to seeing your progress.
I can't recall any issues getting my boat registered in MN,
but I think it had been registered before in WI.
Anywho, I'm sure it will work out.
Nice boat.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 19, 2018)

while on the question of materials, are folks finding 1/2" ply sufficient, or should i go to 3/4 for the casting deck and floors?


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## water bouy (Mar 19, 2018)

Probably depends on how far apart your framing is. I think most people use 1/2" and coat it against rot. I used composite panels so that rot will never be an issue.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 19, 2018)

Yea plan for me is to seal with 1:2:1 mix of boiled linseed:spar varnish:mineral spirits


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## mikejjmay (Mar 20, 2018)

So question, this picture is me standing on the middle seat, looking down and toward the bow, at the space between the middle and front seat. The rivet line along the sides are were the sides begin to slop up, essentially marking the edge of the floor of the boat. You will notice the ribs running horizontally do not go all the way to the edge. When i lay a board horizontally across the top of the rib, from rivet line to rivet line, the board is resting on the sides of the boat, essentially right next to the rivet line (since the ribs do not run all the way to the side). There is probably a 1/4" gap between the bottom of the board and the top of the rib. i see everyone running their floors all the way to the sides. Is it not an issue having the outsides of the floor resting/being supported by what is essentially the skin of the boat? or do i just need to make the floor smaller than the width of the boat, so it rests on this rib at the edges?

Obviously, i will add support under where the center of the floor will be.


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## water bouy (Mar 20, 2018)

The floor may need to be higher if you plan to replace the flotation that comes out of the middle bench. A diagram of the layout would be good to see.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 20, 2018)

Ill try to get a layout sketch posted up when i can. Even if it is higher yet, i guess the underlying question is how do you support the edges of the floor when there is no rib there? Is it ok to have the edges supported by the skin of the boat so long as you have support in the middle? Im thinking 2 stringers, about 12" off center on either side of the centerline to support the floor. The issue is just getting support at the edges. Most boat rebuild have those ribs running all the way to the sidewalls. Maybe this is something they started doing in late models.


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## water bouy (Mar 20, 2018)

You could rivet four supports from bench to bench and also support them off the ribs. Rivet a small piece of angle ( 1x1 or so) to the benches that your framing will then rivet to. Also need em on the ribs. I bought a bunch pre-drilled off ebay cause I knew I would need a lot.


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## schukster (Mar 20, 2018)

https://www.forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=39912

Maybe you have already made up your mind. Take a look at my lund project. I had similar question when I did mine

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## mikejjmay (Mar 20, 2018)

Hmm good idea, i may go that route.

Also, Since our family is growing (#2 on the way) the wife is thinking in a few years she would like to go up to something wider and with an entire middle section that can essentially be a deep empty space for kid safety, etc (think like a tracker grizzly 1860, but the tiller one where the center is totally empty with no console). With that in mind (the eventual upgrade i mean) i may go this kinda route to keep it more in stock shape, without cutting out seats, etc. Just making a floor between each section that is essentially a "floating" floor, and using angle on the front and back side of the seats to essentially hold the floor down and keep it from bowing, etc. the angle would not be supporting anything, just holding it down, so it would not need to be big or heavy angle, and would need a minimum amount of rivets. I would still do a casting deck in front of all this, from the front bench to the nose cone. I just want to take it out first and stand on the front seat to make sure the height of the deck wont be too "tippy for me. Thoughts on this design?

Schuckster, yours is awesome. How did you secure the 2x4s that run lengthwise along the sides under the floor? are they just pocket screwed to the horizontal 2x4s you mounted to the angle on the seats, and then held down by the weight of the deck?


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## schukster (Mar 20, 2018)

Yes. Pocket screwed. The flooring 2x4 framing is bolted to the angle aluminum that I bolted to the seat based (front and back). The plywood flooring is screwed to the 2x4 frame after I covered it with vinyl. I can unconstruct the flooring without removing the floor covering. Let me know if I need to explain it better.





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## mikejjmay (Mar 20, 2018)

Schukster, yours is looking better and better and basically where i want to end up. In addition to my other question to you posted in my last post about the floor members, how did you attach the front of the casting deck to the nose piece? Trying to figure out how i want to do that, since the angle of that nose piece is slanted, and not level to the rest of the seat tops, which is where the casting deck will come off of.

**edit** thanks for answering the other question


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## schukster (Mar 20, 2018)

mikejjmay said:


> Schukster, yours is looking better and better and basically where i want to end up. In addition to my other question to you posted in my last post about the floor members, how did you attach the front of the casting deck to the nose piece? Trying to figure out how i want to do that, since the angle of that nose piece is slanted, and not level to the rest of the seat tops, which is where the casting deck will come off of.
> 
> **edit** thanks for answering the other question


As I recall, I screwed a 2x4 flat left to right on the nose seat. I then screwed a 2x4 on edge against the flat one. I think I did a bevel cut on the on edge 2x4 to keep it plumb. The casting deck framing was then fastened to the on plumb edge 2x4 at the height it needed to be to keep the casting deck level.

If you didn't follow all of that let me know and I will try to draw a picture 

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## mikejjmay (Mar 20, 2018)

Hmmm i think i get it - i you dont mind though ill take any drawings i can get. Also was thinking i could just mount another piece of aluminum angle to the front of the casting deck frame at the right height, and essentially use it as a hanger off the existing front piece, although yours sounds a bit more secure.


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## schukster (Mar 21, 2018)

I apologize for my crude drawing. As I recall the front seat is lower towards the bow. I fastened a 2x4 flat on the seat. I beveled the edge of that flat 2x4 so I could attach a second 2x4 to the beveled edge. This provide a plumb surface to attach my front deck framing. You could also attach a angle aluminum to support the deck framing. 






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## mikejjmay (Mar 21, 2018)

yes sir that makes sense, thank you!!! Did you use 1/8" aluminum for all your angle brackets? Probably what like 1x1x 1/8"


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## schukster (Mar 21, 2018)

I think it was 1 1/2 inch 1/8 angle 



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## mikejjmay (Mar 21, 2018)

so while i wait for my paperwork, im starting to plan the floor and make marks for where my angle will mount on the front and back of teh existing seats (essentially, where the bottom of my 3/4 ply floor will rest). My question is this - what does everyone level the floor relative too? Since the bow is deeper than the stern, there are several ways i could see doing this

1) What i did but seems off - lay a board across all 3 seats bow to stern with a level on it, and use the trailer jack to level across all 3 seats relative to the ground essentially. Then starting at the rearmost seat cut the widest piece of wood i could across the floor at that seat to maximize the width of the floor, and then mark the bottom of that piece. This is where the back of the floor will start. 

I then made the widest piece i could at the middle seat, marked it the same. Then the same for the back side of the front seat. Since the floor tapers toward the front however, and the boat gets deeper, etc, toward the front, this naturally made the front floor slope upward. If i were to make it level to the ground/seats, the floor would have to be narrower the farther forward you go, and you would not be utilizing all your floor space. This is also making the floor level to the ground. Obviously, this is not necessarily how the boat rides in the water. 

2) Maybe i should just measure down from the tops of the factory seats at all 3 seats consistently and put the floor supports there. So rear seat measure down 20 inches, mid seat down 20, front seat down 20. While this wont be level to the ground, the floor will always be equi-distant from the seat tops, and i assume the manufacturer made the stock seats to be level to the water, not the ground, so maybe this is best? i would have to play with the height to maximize floor space. The only problem i see here is if i cut the middle seat to make it walk through, it may have a height change through there

3) Measure off something else i am missing here.

Thoughts?


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## water bouy (Mar 21, 2018)

If you lay something straight across the 3 benches and they're fairly even with each other, you're good to go measuring off of them. Level off the ground doesn't matter on water.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 21, 2018)

yea they are, i laid a board across all 3 and there were no obvious gaps or anything like that. As soon as i got done measuring the way i did it i was kinda like, "gee that was dumb, who cares if its level to the ground, ill be in it on the water!"

I think what i will do is measure the cut out of the walk through on the middle seat (off the top of the middle seat). Once i get that cut out, i can run a board all the way through the walkthrough essentially from the frontside of the rear most seat the the backside of the front seat. This should then tell me where the front and rear angle supports should be mounted.

Sound like a plan? Let me know if someone thinks my thought process is off.....want to get all the cutting done before painting the inside. Gonna go float it tomorrow to see if I have any leaky rivets that need fixing first.


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## water bouy (Mar 21, 2018)

If the middle bench goes all the way to the bottom, you could leave some of it intact for side to side support. You could rivet a piece of angle low across the front and back before you cut it. I would measure the beam before and after cutting to see if it spreads any.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 21, 2018)

Yes the middle seat does go all the way to the bottom, and yes I am gonna leave the piece that would essentially be at or below the floor. Basically, it will be like making a big U shaped but in the middle seat, but obviously flat along the bottom of the U, and thats where the floor will run through from front to back. This will be flush with the angle i mount to support the floor (I am essentially planning to sandwich the remaining bottom part of the factor seat with angle on either side, and use that to support my floor). Ill try to draw it on there tonight with a dry erase marker or something to show the thought process


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## water bouy (Mar 21, 2018)

This is how Lund does their SSV benches. They rivet all the way down and across the middle piece but it's probably put together in a rack of some kind to support the sides.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 21, 2018)

Yes that is essentially what i am modeling mine after, i will still have a piece of the original seat support running all the way across for support, it will just be hidden under the floor.

The black lines show the planned cutout form the middle bench. The cuts will be along the lines,and duplicated on the front of that same seat (same measurement down from the top, same width, identical), and the top of the angle (the angle will be mounted like an upside down L) will run across that black horizontal bottom line, so the floor will essentially "rest" on the remainder of the stock cross bracket and the reinforcing aluminum angle that was added, to give it a wider platform to rest on. The walkthrough is 21" wide. I think thats plenty, and still leaves enough of a small bench that someone could plop down on if they so desire.



After cutting the U shape out of the front and back of the middle seat, i think i will cut a board that runs all the way from the back to the front bench, and rests where the floor will (at the bottom of the U). where the bottom of this board or straight edge hits the front and back seats, that is where i will mount more angle to support the front and back.



i can then lay ply across and tell teh height needed for any bracing across the spans, etc. This picture shows the orientation the angle will be mounted to provide a nice wide surface for the floor to rest on/be bolted to. Obviously i will use full 1x1x 1/4 or some such angle running the whole width, i just didn't have any right now and this 90 degree bracket was just for illustration.




Sound like a good plan of attack? I think that will give me a more consistent front to back floor height than trying to level it to something else on the boat.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 22, 2018)

well she floats! just wanted to get her in the water to see if there were obvious leaks. Just a few spots of seepage, nothing gushing in or anything like that.


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## water bouy (Mar 23, 2018)

Looks good. If angle is going across the bottom of the cut out, the cut might need to be a little higher so water can drain through the openings. It looks like there's maybe 1/2" at the top of the v-shaped hole which could weaken over time.


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## mikejjmay (Mar 23, 2018)

Yea the middle bench may stay, at least for this year, and just do drop in floors between the rear and mid, and mid and front benches. I removed the seat top from the front seat to work on the casting deck, and REALLY did not like how much the sidewall flexed without the support all the way across.

Since this is a 2-3 yr boat (till we get something slightly longer and wider with a totally open floor, think 1860 modv), i may just leave the benches, as i think i would have an easier time reselling too if i didn't hack out any structure.

Figuring out the whole casting deck first, should be starting on that tonight


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## mikejjmay (Mar 23, 2018)

Starting on the casting deck frame


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## mrdrh99 (Mar 25, 2018)

Looking good! If I were in your situation I'd be thinking about a removable deck.... That'll make it a more versatile sale in a couple years... Maybe! :-k


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## Prowelder (Mar 25, 2018)

mikejjmay said:


> Alright so got my letter from the State of MN saying it was never titled there (PS WI is pretty crazy on boats without titles, even if they were built in 1967, MN statutes say they don't title anything before 79, and you have a signed registration and bill of sale), they still need verification from MN it was never titled there. All the paperwork is in the mail, so hopefully a quick turnaround.
> 
> Planning ahead - the casting deck supports will be aluminum, with a ply deck covered in vinyl or carpet. Local supplier had 1/8"thick angle aluminum, which i know has been used with some success (i would prefer 1/4" thick but they don't have it. They also have 1/16' thick square aluminum tubing.
> 
> ...


I use 1x1x1/8 tube and angle for everything 

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## mikejjmay (Mar 29, 2018)

Got the casting deck frame in

View attachment 1


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## schukster (Mar 30, 2018)

Good job. It reminds me of my build. 

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## mikejjmay (Mar 30, 2018)

Thanks Shuckster!

Question for ya - i am gonna use the 5/8 ply (same as you) for the deck, treating it with spar, etc. Wish 3/4 would fit in the brackets, but there is just no way. Every single piece of 5/8 was really really cupped so i couldnt get one today. Assuming i can find a nice piece, any tricks to keep it from cupping/warping over the 4-5 days of coats of spar/gluing the carpet, etc? Just nervous all that work will be quickly ruined - its still so dry here with how cold its getting every night, etc.


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## schukster (Mar 30, 2018)

I don't remember having a problem with cupping. As I remember I used untreated A-C 5/8. The AC was better quality than what i needed since in my case it was covered with vinyl. Maybe I just lucked out. It was a tight fit to get the decking into the seat channels on the sides. Carpet may even be tighter. If it appears to be cupping I would set some blocks on some 2x4 on top of it after applying the spar. I would recommend a minimum of 2 coats maybe more with carpet covering. 

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## schukster (Mar 30, 2018)

I don't know how big you are. I'm 250+ so I wanted the 5/8. If you are lighter you might get by with 1/2" . Your call.

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## mikejjmay (Mar 30, 2018)

hmmm....i have to have a seam somewhere anyway since it is both wider and longer than 4ft at its widest and longest point (so cant do the whole area out of a single 4x8. I may just do the area were the original seat was out of the 5/8, and since it is reinforced below almost all over the thickness of the ply wont matter and that is where my springfield kingpin base will go), then i could do the seam and have literally the entire walking space of the casting deck be out of 3/4 for a real sturdy and non-flexing casting deck. I dont think the little 1/8 difference would drive me crazy -might not even notice with carpet - maybe worth the tradeoff for the added strength/rigidity.


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## FishinLite (Mar 31, 2018)

I used 5/8" marine plywood in my build. It was plenty stiff. I biscuit joined about a 8" piece to the side of the 4' x 8' sheet to satisfy the width requirement. I also biscuit joined about a 3' piece to one end to accommodate the bow. The seam at in the bow was unsupported so I reinforced both sides with epoxy and fiberglass fabric.


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## thomasdgs (Apr 2, 2018)

I am curious to continue watching this build, I am a few weeks away from starting up on my s-14 build. 
https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=43755&p=446456&hilit=Jenny#p446456\

I opted to use the same piece of ply for my transom, and my casting deck, 3/4". With the carpet now on it, I am very concerned about fitting it into the seat channels. Any future construction will be with 1/2" or 5/8". Your 25XD looks very mint too, I love mine. I would love the extra 2' of the S-16.


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## mikejjmay (Apr 2, 2018)

Got the casting deck cut and sized to place. The front deck frame actually sits one eighth of an inch lower then the seat due to having to go underneath the aluminum lip on the front of the seat. Therefore I was able to use a three-quarter inch casting deck and it came pretty dang close to level with the seat top due to that one eighth of an inch. Lucked out I guess. Got the deck down in the basement now soaking up the linseed oil mineral spirits and Spar Varnish mix. The cutout will be an opening door just to store life jackets underneath the deck.

Good luck on your S14 build take a lot of pictures as you go just, viewing everybody else's pictures on here really helps.

When you guys make triangular bow caps to mount the trolling motor on, are you mounting the wood piece on top of the Rails or so that it fits in between the rails, and supporting it with some aluminum angle or something like that?


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## mikejjmay (Apr 2, 2018)

You can see where you lose the 1/8 in this photo by putting it under the lip


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## mikejjmay (Apr 5, 2018)

Well the casting deck should receive its last coating of treatment then its on to carpet. Tried to find marine vinyl on the cheap that matched the existing vinyl on the seats but no luck, and all new vinyl through the whole boat is just not in the budget.

Anyone ever done a hingeless hatch (like the whole hatch just lifts out)? If so, how did you "retain" it down when underway, etc? Its 3/4 ply so pretty hefty so im not worried about it bounding around too much, but would like a way to latch it down as it were. trying to minimize hinges on the deck top, and unfortunately with the way the framing was done (no one to blame but me) hidden hinges or under-deck hinges aren't an option.


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## jethro (Apr 5, 2018)

mikejjmay said:


> When you guys make triangular bow caps to mount the trolling motor on, are you mounting the wood piece on top of the Rails or so that it fits in between the rails, and supporting it with some aluminum angle or something like that?



Mine is made of an old road sign that was riveted to the top of the gunwales. The side that faces the stern was brake pressed to make it stiff. Someone did a really nice job with it and it supports my 50lb Minn Kota Powerdrive nicely.


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## mikejjmay (Apr 5, 2018)

Hmm interesting idea - ill see if i can find the right size piece of aluminum somewhere locally. I like that idea instead of riveting through the sides.


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## FishinLite (Apr 5, 2018)

Here is a pic of the carpeted bow plate I created.The plate was screwed to the gunwales. It is 5/8" marine plywood with 2 1/2" vertical support tacked and glued to the underside in about the middle. There is a piece of aluminum angle hold holding carpeted vertical compartment piece that you see Both at the bow plate and the floor. A 200 lbs guy can stand on it with out a bit of flex. This might give you some ideas.


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## thomasdgs (Apr 7, 2018)

I will be screwing my bow plate to the tops of the gunwales also. I did this because it seemed the easiest way to make it look nice, and ensures the gunwales don't interfere with any future mounting. Haven't tested it with a bow mounted motor yet.


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## mikejjmay (Apr 8, 2018)

Got any pictures of how you actually screwed it through? I'm thinking top mount instead of flush mount is the direction I'm going to go as well, it just doesn't look like there's enough width on the gunwale to get a nut on the bottom of it.


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## thomasdgs (Apr 8, 2018)

I haven't finished my project yet (on hold for the snow season), but I plan to just use a number of large stainless screws into pilot holes on top of the gunwales. You're right about a lack of room for a nut (or washer), and the gunwales are pretty meaty, so I figure screws will hold fine... if i use enough of them.


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## mikejjmay (Apr 8, 2018)

Gotcha. I spose you could also use some blind pop rivets


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## mikejjmay (Apr 10, 2018)

Silly question - when gluing carpet down on the deck piece.

Do you lay the piece down right side up, apply the glue, lay on the carpet and roll out, and then let dry completely before flipping over and bringing it over the comers and gluing on the back side? Or do you just let it set up a bit and then flip it over and do it all? Or do you just go for it and let the staples on the back hold it in place?


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## mikejjmay (Apr 10, 2018)

Im talking for big pieces like the deck, for small pieces i don't think i will have issues doing the whole piece in one go


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## Prowelder (Apr 10, 2018)

It's looking really good I would have painted the inside of the boat before I installed all that carpet

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## mikejjmay (Apr 10, 2018)

I did on mine, those were just the otehr guys giving me some ideas. Or maybe you were complementing theirs  Either way, the inside of mine is a dark gray, should have some pics posted here in a bit


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## thomasdgs (Apr 11, 2018)

mikejjmay said:


> Silly question - when gluing carpet down on the deck piece.
> 
> Do you lay the piece down right side up, apply the glue, lay on the carpet and roll out, and then let dry completely before flipping over and bringing it over the comers and gluing on the back side? Or do you just let it set up a bit and then flip it over and do it all? Or do you just go for it and let the staples on the back hold it in place?



The steps I followed to get the carpet on my larger bits (and smaller bits a like) were:
-trace outline on to carpet, and cut out with 3" extra on all edges (net trim)
-apply glue to top of deck pieces, and let it set up for a couple minutes (get tacky)
-lay the glue covered board down onto the carpet laying on a flat surface
-Glue and staple the carpet to the back of the board along the longest flat edge (quickly!)
-flip the board and roll the carpet with a 1.5" pipe from the stapled side out to all the other edges
-flip the board back over and glue ( including the board edges) and staple remaining edges
-spend an hour picking all the carpet glue and carpet fluff off my hands.

Tip: if you have any curved edges, save those until you have stapled the back on all straight edges, then have plenty of sharp blades handy for trimming the excess on curved edges so it will lay flat.


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