# 1957 Evinrude 10 hp -- Won't start



## Piomarine (Feb 16, 2016)

I NEED HELP!!!

I have a 1957 Evinrude Sportwin (10hp) in great running condition (or was). I ran it about 2 weeks ago and it ran great. Tried to start it on Saturday in the water but got nothing, I either flooded it or had the exhaust port underwater (assuming that makes a difference).

I started the motor today and it ran fine. I shut it down to grab something from the garage, started it again but the throttle body had stuck open and it revved very high, the throttle was frozen and I had to shut it down by closing the carburetor...it hasn't started since.

I have tried everything I can think of to do! I drained the fuel, tried resetting the carb adjustment, I even changed the spark plugs. It will turn over and fire but won't stay lit. I don't think it's getting fuel. Can someone give me an idea I haven't tried yet?

I noticed a small split in the fuel line but there's no sign that it's leaking, and the pressure gasket on the tank is still good. Is it possible that it could just be flooded? It still wouldn't start after sitting for about an hour.


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## richg99 (Feb 16, 2016)

I know very little about fixing engines... but...a split fuel line may be allowing it to suck air instead of fuel. richg99


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## Pappy (Feb 16, 2016)

Well....if you don't think it is getting fuel then take a squirt bottle and add some 24:1 mix and spray some down the carb and see. 
You ARE running 24:1 in that engine aren't you? If not you better start. That is a bushing engine for one and the pistons are butter soft compared to any late model piston material. Skirt wear on a lean oil ratio will rear its ugly head and cause idle and starting issues.....before it pops a powerhead. 
Second, check the available spark energy. Remove the plugs and the plug wire should be able to jump a 1/4" gap with a good blue spark. Make those two checks and lets start from there. You may also want to fill in the gaps on the latest service history.


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## Kismet (Feb 16, 2016)

You got lucky. Pappy responded. 



but from the remedial class of boat/motor guys: Have you run ethanol in your engine lately? Messes the fuel hose delivery system and can plug fuel pump.


Best wishes, you got this knocked.


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## richg99 (Feb 16, 2016)

Pappy is the MAN on engines. 

Might want to have some insulated gloves when you check that spark. 

richg99


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## Pappy (Feb 16, 2016)

richg99 said:


> Pappy is the MAN on engines.
> 
> Might want to have some insulated gloves when you check that spark.
> 
> richg99



Ahh....you picked up on not saying exactly how to check it. :roll:


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## richg99 (Feb 16, 2016)

Pappy. All I know is one time when I tried to check a spark, I got set on my butt. Might have been a lawn mower or something. Long time ago.

Ha Ha. richg99


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## Piomarine (Feb 16, 2016)

I feel truly honored to get a response from Pappy! I mixed 16oz into 4 gal of fuel...I think I calculated that right. Just checked it again and it's a little lean...by about 5oz. 16oz is the mixture for 3 gal. I will check spark and add more oil tomorrow. Would those idle issues include light sputtering and skipping? If the skirts are worn how do I go about checking/replacing them? 

The only ethanol that's been run through it is the mandatory 10% imposed by the fine folks at the EPA (that was sarcasm btw)

I understood when I bought this motor that it would be a steep learning curve. I have never been a gear head but I have a good mechanical mind and with help I can learn quickly. I apologize in advance for seemingly stupid questions...such as where do I spray the gas into the carb?


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## Pappy (Feb 16, 2016)

Good Lord...gonna' need boots for that!

Lets back up for a bit here. What has been done to the engine and when? New coils? Carb kit? 
You mentioned draining the fuel. Where did you drain it from? 
You mentioned the carb throttle blade freezing in place. How did you shut it?
You mentioned alcohol extended fuel. How old is the fuel and how cold is it where you are trying to run the engine? 
Were you able to pump fuel from the tank back into the carburetor after draining? Did you see fuel filling the glass filter bowl?
Have you tried adjusting the low and high speed needles? 
Sorry for all the questions but if you are not a gear head this is where we should start.


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## Piomarine (Feb 17, 2016)

Unsure about the coils or the carb kit, I bought it 8 months ago and I've run it twice since that day...so at least that long
I drained the fuel from the filter bowl and the line below the fuel filter, and I guess whatever was above the filter bowl
It was not the carb throttle blade that froze, (forgive the lack of technical terms) it was the throttle link (the one that runs under the armature plate), it got wedged behind the throttle stop arm, I basically had to muscle it back into neutral after I stopped it and that opened everything back up.
The gas is new maybe 2 week tops mixed with 16oz of TCW3, and it was in the 70s today
Yes fuel pumped back into the filter bowl just fine. I'm having trouble knowing how much to pump it cause I'm afraid of flooding it.
I have adjusted the big knob (I think that's the slow speed)


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## Pappy (Feb 17, 2016)

Okay. 
Starting with the low speed adjustment. Lightly close it and re-open it around 1 1/4 turns. You will likely re-adjust this back down to less than one turn. If it is easy to turn then snug up the brass 7/16" nut that surrounds the needle. Should have a bit of resistance so the needle does not wander while running. 
Loosen the nut around the high speed needle (the bottom one) and remove the needle. That will completely drain the fuel bowl. Catch the fuel in something and see what's in it. Re-install needle, lightly close and re-open it to around 1 turn. Tighten that nut to give you a snug feel on the needle rotation. When running at WOT you will need to re-adjust to highest RPM then richen just a bit for safety. 
You can pump the tank pretty hard. Should be able to feel additional resistance when the bowl is full and the needle and seat closes. 
Check your spark. Temporarily you can insert an insulated Phillips head screwdriver into the plug tip end of the wire and hold it near (1/4") a clean bolt on the block. Pull the rope and watch the spark. Use a friend for this if necessary. Spark plugs out of the head. 
Rotating the throttle handle, you should be able to see the cam on the mag plate just open the throttle blade at the start position in neutral. If not then look at the brass cam and find the line. Adjust the relationship between the cam and throttle linkage to accomplish this. The roller should begin to move when it touches that line on the cam. If there is a deep groove in the roller that can make a difference. The throttle stop should not be able to jump the mechanical stop on the block!
When in the water the exhaust relief should not be buried below static water level. Level should be above those lower mount clamshells on either side of the exhaust housing.
Pull the choke and start the engine. Adjust mixture to a good steady idle. If it coughs lean then richen (CClockwise) a bit. If rough then lean (Clockwise) to best idle. 
When you can, pull the lower drain screw on the gearcase and check for water. Do this often. 
Let me know how this goes and we will go from here.


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## richg99 (Feb 17, 2016)

Pappy....what a guy!

richg99


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## Piomarine (Feb 17, 2016)

Alright Pappy...I don't know what kind of magic you are made of, but it started, albeit begrudgingly. I did everything exactly as you stated. When I drained the fuel, it looked like it may have had some sediment in it, but I don't know if it was in the fuel or if I knocked it off when I put the cup up to catch the fuel. Everything was fine in the throttle link, the roller, the carb blade, etc. 

Here was my process
I closed and reopened the slow speed control 1 1/4 turn and tightened the brass nut as instructed
Pulled the needle on the high speed control, drained the all fuel, replaced the needle reopened it 1 turn tightened the nut to snug
Checked the spark, bright blue, very strong audible spark, replaced the plugs
plugged in the fuel line, but the tank was still under pressure
pumped the tank and noticed a hissing coming from the carb when I would push the primer, but couldn't find any leaks
pulled the choke
cranked it 3-4 times got turning and sputtering but no start

disconnected everything and repeated everything except checking the spark
pumped the tank, closed the high speed knob 1/2 turn, opened the choke
cranked it-no start, cranked it-no start
closed the choke, cranked it-sputter, sputter and start

It ran pretty rough at first but smoothed out somewhat. I tried adjusting the slow speed control both ways but it still didn't change how it ran. It wasn't skipping or sputtering but it would occasionally shutter.

One question, where is the drain plug on the gear case?


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## Pappy (Feb 17, 2016)

Progress. 
The low speed needle should have enough control over the mixture to fully shut off the engine if you lean it enough. You should be able to find a good running adjustment range. If you absolutely cannot control the mixture at low speeds then the carb will need to be disassembled, cleaned and rebuilt. Use an OEM kit only as it is way more complete than Sierra or other "will fit" kits. 
The drain screw on the gearcase is way down where the skeg meets the bullet shaped part of the gearcase. The vent hole is above the ventilation plate (horizontal plate above the prop). If it has water, drain it. Fill from the bottom until it runs out the vent hole. That can be fixed once you have the engine running well again.


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## Piomarine (Feb 18, 2016)

Also I forgot to mention this, but after the motor started again it was spitting out a lot of blue (or white) exhaust...it was kinda dark so I'm not 100% what color it was but there was a lot of it. And it didn't go away after running it for a few minutes. The previous owner told me that before he put it up last winter he ran a bunch of sea-foam through it and that's why it was billowing so badly...not so sure I believe him.


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## Pappy (Feb 18, 2016)

A bunch of small white or blue/white globules in the water? Sounds like the engine was running rich at idle. This goes along with your description of the running quality. 
The low speed circuit in the carburetor gets its fuel from the high speed circuit through a stand pipe in the carburetor. You should be able to restrict enough fuel in the low speed by turning it in to get it running right. If not you can restrict low speed fuel further by closing the high speed needle more. This would just be a test as when up on plane the high speed needle will have to be readjusted to get best performance.


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## Piomarine (Feb 18, 2016)

Yes to the globules in the water. I'll mess with is some more this afternoon and see if I can lean it out any.


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## Piomarine (Feb 19, 2016)

I started the motor up again today to see if I could lean it out any. I turned the slow speed adjustment until it closed and the motor continued to run with no change in quality. I tried adjusting the high speed to lean it (clockwise) and it changed the idle speed, but again no change in quality, just bogging until it tried to die. I went the opposite way and it and it idled higher but started coughing. I found the happy medium but the run quality is still kinda rough and very dirty. The globules in the water you were talking about are not white but grey/brown, and the exhaust is definitely blue and copious (not billowing but thick).

Here is a picture of the water after I shut it down.


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## Pappy (Feb 19, 2016)

Purchase an OEM kit. The engine should not run with the idle needle closed. Am thinking the high speed nozzle gasket is missing or the float level is too high, float is soaked....whatever. 
Do a thorough cleaning of the carburetor. Not a hard job. Clean every passageway. Pull the core plug at the top by drilling a 1/8" hole in it. Be ready when the bit goes through so the bit does not bottom out on the calibration pocket passages. Read that twice!
Install the core plug by firmly tapping a flat punch or a 1/4" extension in the center of the plug....not hard. You will get a feel for it by looking at the old plug before you pull it out. Grab some of your sweetie's nail polish and seal the top of it. 
Make sure the float is level being careful how you bend the tang. The tang goes down toward the main body after installing the new needle seat and washer. The hanger clips on to the needle and then slides over the float arm and is dropped in place when the float is installed. Needle and float tang both face the same direction. 
The most tedious part will be the removal of the old packing washers. Pick them out with a small pick. You should have several packing washers with the kit and some nylons as well. Use the nylons as bearings at each end of the stack you will build. Use two or three of the cork between the nylons. 
You will have to tighten the packing nut at least one more time as the cork gaskets compress with a few hours of run time. 
Compressed air or a can of carb cleaner should be used to verify all passages once you have cleaned the carb body and bowl prior to re-assembly. 
Starting needle adjustments will be the same as mentioned earlier.


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## Steve A W (Feb 19, 2016)

Piomarine
The water in the test barrel should be deeper, it should cover the
water pump by a couple inches.
When barrel running a motor it will seem like a lot of oily goo 
on the water but think how much water you would be covering
for the amount of time you run the motor. You wouldn't notice
it in the lake.
Good luck with your motor.

Steve A W


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## Piomarine (Feb 20, 2016)

A new carb kit did the trick! I pulled it disassembled it soaked all the parts in carb cleaner for an hour, blew it all out, reassembled and reinstalled it. Tried to fire it up and nothing...then I remembered to reconnect the fuel line, pumped the tank and fired first pull. It runs so much smoother now. I tried opening up the throttle the listen to it sing, but I got gunshy cause I don't know how high is too high to let it rev (that and I splashed all my water out of the barrel). It is still running a little rich (I think) at WOT but that may just take a large body of water and playing with the high speed adjustment.

The PO had done a rebuild but it seems that he tried to reuse some of the old parts with the new kit, or he had an incomplete carb kit. Whatever the case it is running well now and very smooth.


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## Pappy (Feb 21, 2016)

Good deal......now you owe us a photo or two of the engine!


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## Piomarine (Feb 21, 2016)

A deal is a deal! Now that I have it running well (thanks to Pappy) I feel good about doing a full restoration to make it a real looker! I freshened up the blue a while back but now I will be doing the white, black, decals, and emblems.

One question though, how high should I be revving the motor? I may have just been gunshy, but in the barrel when I opened it up it was revving really high and it made me nervous I was going to blow something.


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## Kismet (Feb 21, 2016)

This is one of those threads that just makes me smile.

There are times when folks, and issues, and support just come together in exactly the right way.

Nice joint, this TinBoats place. 

=D> =D> =D>


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## Pappy (Feb 22, 2016)

Never go to the max in a test barrel. Too much air gets in the pump and ventilates the prop. You can over-rev pretty easy so your common sense was telling you correctly. 
*Reprotint* has some excellent paint for what you are going to do. Check them out. Not cheap.....but good! Keep us in the loop as you go, would love to see the transformation on what is already a nice looking engine.


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## Piomarine (Feb 22, 2016)

I also found this Canadian company ironically called https://www.nymarine.ca/ that does repro paint, decals, and medallions, and their paint prices are about 30% lower than reprotint. I am excited about finally restoring this gorgeous old motor! Unfortunately I just checked and the polychromatic blue I touched up the motor with before is the wrong shade from the wrong year. I was ignorant and shot it with what I know now to be 1963-68 pcb, so it looks like I'm painting the whole motor.


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## Kismet (Feb 22, 2016)

Piomarine said:


> I also found this Canadian company ironically called https://www.nymarine.ca/ that does repro paint, decals, and medallions, and their paint prices are about 30% lower than reprotint. I am excited about finally restoring this gorgeous old motor! Unfortunately I just checked and the polychromatic blue I touched up the motor with before is the wrong shade from the wrong year. I was ignorant and shot it with what I know now to be 1963-68 pcb, so it looks like I'm painting the whole motor.




Or,

you could just keep it YOUR secret and just do the black and white.

_(Nobody here would tell on you.)_


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## Pappy (Feb 22, 2016)

That polychromatic blue is a gorgeous color.......
What I will say about Reprotint is that it seems to have less shine in it which would be more on the correct side. I will see the guys from Reprotint next month in Tavares. The show there is now the second largest in the US and is amazing. Sometimes I work the show and sometimes I relax and drool over the stunning wood boats there. This year Lesa and I will have her gorgeous 1953 Lyman in the show, we should have another vintage boat in the water there and I am scheduled to give a talk during the symposium on Saturday. No rest for the lazy darn it.

https://www.acbs-sunnyland.org/


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## Piomarine (Feb 23, 2016)

Alright I give...I'll leave the blue alone...for now. Pappy, you commented yesterday on a thread about shaft length and it made me think about the shaft on my own motor. The shaft on mine measures 17" from the top of the clamp to the ventilation plate, and the boat has a true 15" transom. When mounted, the vent plate sits about 2 inches below the bottom of the stern. I have not yet had a chance to get the boat out and see how it rides, planes, etc., but do you anticipate this being an issue?


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## Pappy (Feb 24, 2016)

On these engines it is not much of an issue. You can put a 1/2" or as much as a 3/4" shim between the top of the transom and the transom bracket though. That is common practice. Make sure your clamps are tight and you have enough room to do this. Always secure your engine with a rope as well.......just in case.


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## Piomarine (Feb 29, 2016)

If it's not one thing with this boat and motor it's another...I took it to the lake today, put it tin the water, took it back out of the water, put the plug back in it, and put it back in the water. Cranked the motor and it started first pull, but I noticed the line was coming out really far before it would catch and turn the flywheel. So I started it (in gear by mistake) and quickly shut it down. Started it again but again the string was pulling really long. It struggled to start and I had to play with the choke to keep it lit and after less than a minute it died again. I tried again to start it and the pull string ran free and would not catch the flywheel. I didn't have the tools with me to attempt to fix it on site. I took it home pulled the string cap to look under it, and found that the center screw had come very loose. I tightened it back, up put the cap back on, and it pulls just fine now.

Should I put any thread lock on that screw to keep it from coming out again?

Also, should I just assume that the fact that it started rough the second time and wouldn't stay running is because it didn't get a solid string pull and may have been lightly flooded, or should I be concerned again?


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## billyjoebigdaddy (Feb 29, 2016)

Sounds to me like you may have a stuck float needle.


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## Pappy (Feb 29, 2016)

Pio - Wont hurt to have a drop of Loctite on the screw. Those are normally pretty bulletproof. 
Also, before checking anything, run the engine again. Remember that the packing nuts will have to be tightened again as the new packings are probably compressed by now. 
No two engines will start alike. Some require the choke be left on for a bit and some will not. You may need to re-set your mixtures and just get used to the starting quality. Let me know.


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## Piomarine (Mar 2, 2016)

Third time's the charm! I ran the motor in a barrel and it worked fine, but I did need to readjust the carb settings. I took the traveler back to the lake today and it must not like lake water cause I put it in the water did everything exactly the same and got the same result as before. After playing with the choke (open, close, hold at half choke, open again, half choke again, etc.) and idling for about 5 minutes I closed the choke and it stayed running. Took it out and it ran great. I brought it back in, bailed some water, and when I went back out the motor fired right up and I went a little father out and really let the motor sing. Got the carb adjusted for WOT and it sang me an aria! the 10 hp struggled a bit to get me up on plane but I was also facing a lot of chop and a 20 mph wind.

My little boat saw the open water today for the first time in 32 years!


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## Pappy (Mar 2, 2016)

.....And THAT'S a beautiful thing! ..........
Way to go on putting her back into service! Keep an eye on the gearcase oil for a few trips. Now we expect a video of it! And, more pictures.


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## Kismet (Mar 2, 2016)

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D>​
Congratulations!

Hope I get my '56 10hp working at that level to take some matching pictures.


Well done, Sir.


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## Piomarine (Mar 3, 2016)

Thank you! Pappy I am going to change the lower unit oil just because I don't know when it was last done. Should I use the Evinrude oil or can I get away with using say a Pennzoil 80W90 or equivalent lower unit oil (assuming it has emulsifiers added to it)?


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## Pappy (Mar 3, 2016)

Read the label before using anything else. 
The OMC lube clearly states that it can maintain full protection with up to 25% water. That is some pretty good stuff and a hard act to follow.


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## Piomarine (Mar 3, 2016)

Alright just tell me what to get cause I've been looking at labels and descriptions all afternoon and they are all starting to sound the same. Do I need hypoid oil as is stamped on the dear case? Is hypoid oil even still sold? Which OMC oil do I need for my motor?


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## Pappy (Mar 4, 2016)

HPF PRO is what I would recommend.


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## Piomarine (Mar 4, 2016)

Would you recommend it over the Sierra Type C or Sierra Premium Blend?


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## Pappy (Mar 4, 2016)

Check and see their affinity for water and how well they are able to function with it and make your decision accordingly. I use very few off brand items.


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## Piomarine (Mar 4, 2016)

Ok so I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and say that the lower unit oil should not look like this...and the picture doesn't do it justice. It is a deep caramel color and has a very burnt smell to it...glad I decided to do a change!


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## Pappy (Mar 4, 2016)

Looks like there's a bit of water in it. Not a huge problem yet. You can continue to run it and change it as it gets milky or take the time to re-seal it. The main offender will be the shift rod seal....which is also the hardest to get to. Not a bad job and will get you familiar with the inside of these gearcases. Your choice at this point. That gear oil is nowhere near as bad as I have seen.


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## Piomarine (Mar 4, 2016)

I went ahead and just drained and replaced the oil with HPF Pro as you suggested. I also found a parts dealer about 20 minutes from me that carries basically every OEM part I could ever want for this motor and got 2 new drain seals. I pulled the old ones and they were very badly worn out. The oil had likely been changed in the last couple years but the rings most certainly had not. They were badly compressed and one was cracked.

I'm going to take it out tomorrow and I'll recheck the oil that night to see if it was in fact the bad rings or if it will need further attention.


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## Piomarine (Mar 15, 2016)

I took the boat out the other day and was having issues with the motor idling really low and running really rough, but would significantly smooth out at WOT though even at WOT would still run at low RPM. Later in the day however, I was forced to kill the motor with the throttle rather than throttling down and pulling the choke (the choke knob had rattled out of its threads which are weak to begin with). When I started it afterwards...it ran fine. Any ideas what could be going on?

Also with the choke knob, should I try and replace the choke link to get better threads or should I just put a dab of red on the screw and hope for the best?


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