# 2-stroke/4-stroke



## bobberboy (Jun 24, 2010)

At the risk of igniting the 2-stroke vs: 4-stroke debate - for those of you who are still undecided here's a link to a site that lists pros and cons for both. It doesn't recommend either, just points out some facts and features of each.


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## Quackrstackr (Jun 24, 2010)

Your link must be invisible. :shock: 

:lol: 

I like 4 strokes. They are ultra quiet and literally sip gas.

I would like them a lot better if they weren't so heavy and had the performance of 2 strokes. :lol:


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## bobberboy (Jun 24, 2010)

Quackrstackr said:


> Your link must be invisible. :shock:
> 
> :lol:
> 
> ...



It would be more visible if I had posted it! Here it is...https://www.smalloutboards.com/4Stroke.htm


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## clarkbre (Jun 24, 2010)

That’s a very good article but I do disagree with them on one thing:

They state that the 4 strokes are more economical. Fuel wise, maybe. Cost wise, no way. If you compare 2 and 4 strokes of equal HP, the initial cost and maintenance on 4 is quite a bit more. Granted both will need impellers, plugs, and lower end oil changed on a regular basis, that’s where 2 stroke maintenance stops. 4 strokes still require regular oil changes, valve adjustments and timing belts to be replaced at certain intervals. More often than not, your average backyard mechanic won’t be able to do that. Although 4 strokes might be more fuel efficient, you’d have to burn through a lot of gas to create those savings.

This is probably one of the better articles showing the pros and cons of each stroke. There are some decent compromises though. The E-tecs are nice motors. Or if you can find a 2 stroke with oil injection, you don’t have to mix gas. It’s all about personal preference. I know on some of the smaller boats like we run on this site, guys take there gas motors off to go electric only. I’d hate to have to lift a 4 stroke off the back of my boat.


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## po1 (Jun 24, 2010)

The biggest reason I went with a 4stroke when it came time to purchase a new engine was with several lakes talking about excluded 2stroke engines I figured it was a safer investment.


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## Quackrstackr (Jun 24, 2010)

Most people don't run their vehicles in excess of 5k rpm the majority of the time, either. 

Adjusting the valves in motorcycle and atv engines is not uncommon, which is more closely related to a 4 stroke outboard than a V8.

I don't know that they have to be checked that frequently but going out and "running the piss out of it" and never giving it a second thought is probably not a swift idea, either.


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## perchin (Jun 24, 2010)

probably because a car engine is not even close to a outboard....... never adjust a car.... nope prolly cuz there is no adjustment :LOL2: just springs to be changed and seats to be grinded.

I had to regularly reset the valves on my 4-stroke dirtbike. What marine facility said that it is a scam..... want to know so I can make sure to never use thier services.

If you could please post the article released From Honda or Suzuki stating they base their outboards on their car engines, I would love take a look at that. :shock:


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## perchin (Jun 25, 2010)

Could you post the link (URL) to those articles please.


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## perchin (Jun 25, 2010)

nevermind..... found it myself

https://www.suzukimarine.com/faqs/technology/32/

"Critical structural parts have been redesigned for marine use, such as the cylinder head, block, crankshaft, connecting rods, camshafts and pistons, to provide maximum reliability and durable operation."

Ahhhhh............. so not the same. And an orange is the same as an apple, only totally different. :lol:


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## hwew (Jun 25, 2010)

Well I'll stick with my 2009 Yamaha 15hp 2-stroke that I just purchased new in the box this month as long as I can. It is only 79 pounds, fuel consumption is not bad, designed to run on E-10 gas, runs smooth above idle, pulls good up to red line, less maintenance, Better dealer network here than other outboard manufactures from Japan, and if needed I can work on it my self. Oh! I can buy performance reeds to get more power out of it. 8) But I think I'll leave it just as it is. Plenty of power for me.

I had a 1995 Yamaha 15 2-stroke that had lots of hours on and it never gave me problems. I just serviced it when required. Water pump impellers are very easy to put in these 15's. All I know is these Yamaha 2-stroke engines have been proven around the world and they are one of the most sought after 15hp engines in Australia.

I am sticking with an engine that worked for me for years. We do not have restrictions on 2-strokes here so I am safe for now. If you have restrictions on some lakes than I would say you have no choice, you will need to run a 4-stroke on them. I would say buy an engine that you would feel comfortable with and have a dealer near by so you can get parts and supplies. They all make a pretty good outboard.

Henry


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## bassboy1 (Jun 25, 2010)

hwew said:


> Well I'll stick with my 2009 Yamaha 15hp 2-stroke that I just purchased new in the box this month as long as I can. It is only 79 pounds, fuel consumption is not bad, designed to run on E-10 gas, runs smooth above idle, pulls good up to red line, less maintenance, Better dealer network here than other outboard manufactures from Japan, and if needed I can work on it my self. Oh! I can buy performance reeds to get more power out of it. 8) But I think I'll leave it just as it is. Plenty of power for me.
> 
> I had a 1995 Yamaha 15 2-stroke that had lots of hours on and it never gave me problems. I just serviced it when required. Water pump impellers are very easy to put in these 15's. All I know is these Yamaha 2-stroke engines have been proven around the world and they are one of the most sought after 15hp engines in Australia.
> 
> ...



That engine is carbed, right?


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## hwew (Jun 25, 2010)

Yes it is.


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## clarkbre (Jun 25, 2010)

boater1234 said:


> perchin i never said they were the same i said their motors were based off their automobile engines.They use the same basic concepts but do change alot of the components to stand up to the torture of the saltwater world and the abuse they take. Also if u go to hondas website u will see that their engines are 100%based off their cars like the vtec accord and civic.Go to the large motors section and u will see right next to each motor from the 75hp and up it says automotive technology check it out.



Isn’t all technology based on something a generation or two before that?

I mean we’re talking about v-tec. Wasn’t that based off of a dual cam system or something?

And since outboards have internal combustion engines, isn’t it safe to say that the idea of a piston, rod and crank came from an old steam engine?

All engines and technologies are based off of something before that, it’s how they’re modified to withstand their designed uses that I’m concerned with.


So, back to the 2 or 4 stroke topic, have we decided which one is best? :lol:


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## hwew (Jun 25, 2010)

Hi guys,

Lots of the designs for outboards and todays small engines came from the automotive industry. A matter of fact for years it was the automotive industries that had the cutting edge design and technology that helped other small engine manufactures design and build there products. Remember Chrysler outboards? Ford helped design many engines for the military. Look at GM.They made detroit diesels that where the top diesel engines for about 50 years. I guess I am trying to get a point accross to prevent a battle from happening here on this forum.

I like 2-strokes because they gave me good service for many years and never had problems with all the Mercury, Evinrude and Yamaha outboards I had.

If you maintain any outboard (2-stroke or 4-stroke) they should give good service.

I been on a pontune boat last week with a 4-stroke 70 hp Yamaha and I loved it. It was nice and quiet, It was smooth, had lots of torque to push it. Small 4-stroke outboards have came a long way and all the main companies have a pretty good 4-stroke now. Remember, no product is perfect. But in this country we still have the liberty to choose a product the will suit our needs.

And some companies are working on computer controlled electronic direct fuel injection for small outboards. who knows we might see small 2-stroke outboards make a comeback.

Henry


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## perchin (Jun 26, 2010)

clarkbre said:


> Isn’t all technology based on something a generation or two before that?
> 
> I mean we’re talking about v-tec. Wasn’t that based off of a dual cam system or something?
> 
> ...



I Agree 100% ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

My point exactly...... one should not give ill advice based on their own misconceptions, rather off the facts. Anything you buy white - black, big - small, 2stroke - 4stroke, is only as good as its owner. :wink:


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## perchin (Jun 26, 2010)

Really.............. and what facts support the below quote???????????????? I think it is more like the opening line.... FUNNY, considering the obvious. Like there is no adjustment to make in a automobiles valves other than replace them, replace the springs, and grind down the seats.

That is why you have ill misconceptions, because you don't know ant better :roll: 
All your trying to do now is back track and save your ego.



boater1234 said:


> U wanna here something funny about valve adjustments..........Think for a second how many times in your life do u take your car in for valve adjustments .all this other crap about valves is a scam.He runs the piss out of this motor also,full throttle all the time everywere he goes.Don't waste your money.Suzuki and honda base all their motors from there cars and like i said u have never taken a car in for valve adjustments.


 :BS:


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## hwew (Jun 26, 2010)

Hi guys,

I don't care if a person has a 2-stroke or a 4-stroke and where the technolegy is coming from today. As long as you buy one from one of the big outboard companies and you take care of your outboard and have a good dealer network and you are able to get service and parts where you are you will be ok. They are all good outboards.

Henry


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## hwew (Jun 26, 2010)

Hi boater1234,

It is not worth getting worked up over some things. Life is to short. Suzuki has a nice 15 hp 4-stroke. And so does Yamaha, Tohatsu, (Mercury which we know is made by Tohatsu) Honda, did I forget any? Some weigh more. Some have some features like spin on oil filters that I like. They all have special features that someone might like over another. But you will have a reliable 15 hp 4-stroke outboard what ever manufacture go with.

I had 2-strokes all my life.
2- Neptune Mighty Mites
1- British Seagull
2-Mercury 4.5's
1-Mercury 7.5
1-Mercury 9.8
1-Mercury 25 XD
1-Evinrude 4hp Deluxe
1-Yamaha 6
2-Yamaha 15's

This is what I am used to and they all gave me good service. And I am confident if I ever have to get a 4-stroke it will give me good service also. I cannot stress how important it is to service an outboard by follow the quidelines in the owners manual.

The bottom line is buy what you feel comfortable with. I know I mentioned this before but make sure you have a good dealer network in your area for the brand you choose.

Yea the Yamaha 15 2-stroke is some engine. I love them. Wait untill I post pictures of the Tach/Hour meter setup on the new engine. It looks like it was built for the engine.

Henry


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## perchin (Jun 26, 2010)

boater1234 said:


> I'm with u hwew,this guy perchin always has to battle me about something ever since i started posting and i never did a thing wrong to him so i'm done with the childish games and going to ignore him as i think his goal is to get me kicked out of here and jim laid down the law once so i will obey his wishes and just leave it alone as it is not worth getting booted over one guy,so i'm done with him once again he thinks for some reason no one on earth but him knows what their talking about so this is the end for me as far as argueing with him. :roll:quote]
> 
> Your giving yourself far too much credit :LOL2: you try to spin it as I only know what I'm talking about??? :lol: Your again trying to change the subject that you just really didn't know what you were talking about. :---)
> 
> Sorry if it bugs anybody........ just don't feel its fair to the other people looking for sound advice, whom don't know any better, and have to be subject to false information.


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## PrecisionAir (Jun 26, 2010)

I was told that a authorized dealer had to do the maintenance as scheduled on the 4-strokes to keep them under warranty. Is that B.S.? I ended up going with a 2 stroke yamaha anyway.


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## hwew (Jun 27, 2010)

Hi Guys,

Oil is such a personal thing also. There are lots of good oils out there today.

I used to be a dealer for Amsoil and I like their 4-stroke oil. Here is good oil also for 4-strokes. Click on the viscosity you need and check out the specs.

https://www.redlineoil.com/Products.aspx?pcid=21

Buy a good quality oil that is in your area and you will be fine. Remember the manufactures cannot tell you that you can only run their oil. It is against the law as stated in the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.

Henry


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## hwew (Jun 27, 2010)

boater1234 said:


> Very good stuff hwew,the only bad thing is i sold my yamaha today for a insane price i could not pass up as i paid $800 for it and sold it today for $1600 how could i not sell it for double what i paid.It was a 1995 in pristine condition only had 20hrs on it but my heart is set on the suzuki 15.Also when i get the 15hp suzukii know all the maintenance will be done by me and i always keep up with my motors as it will look as close to new as u can get 8yrs from now as evertime i come in from the saltwater i flush it i also put a good film of lubricant on it everytime as u can never find a drop of salt on my motor.I also put a good coat of marine wax for extra protection.
> 
> I change the plugs every yr,do the impeller once every 2yrs,the timing belt must be checked every 3yrs to see if it needs replacement,and i will change the oil every 50hrs even know they say 100hrs.I only use sythetic on everything i use,i will use royal purple breakin oil for the breakin then royal purple 10w 30 for everyday use and i use royal purple lower unit oil also.IMO i think royal purple has the best all around products for marine but like i said it is just a opinion.Well hope to hear back from your tach experience on your yamaha 15 good luck.



Hi Boater 1234,

You did good selling your Yamaha 15 2-stroke. Keep us informed on the Suzuki. I personaly like to know how it works out for you.
About the tach. I will post some pics when I get some batteries. It can mount on most small outboards the way I am doing it.

Henry


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## hwew (Jun 27, 2010)

boater1234 said:


> Here is a trick i learned from a guy at a marina that i'm sure some people know already and it will save u tons of oil from coming out of the filter all over the engine.Poke a small hole in the top of the oil filter and get a small plastic bowl or something similar as small as possibe and turn the oil filter just enough to were the oil starts draining into the bowl and drain as much as possible before u take the filter all the way off.Then shove a rag under the filter to soak any small amouts of remaining oil left in the filter because u can't get it all but most of it will come out when u drain it and u will have almost no oil that gets in the motor,maybe a few drops but it is better then taking the filter off and oil will spill everywere no matter what u do.I just wanted to share this handy tip as i have learned it saves a huge mess.



That is a good tip thanks for sharing it.


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## jarobi (Jun 27, 2010)

I may have missed this discussed in this thread, but, talking valves...what type of valves do most 4 stroke boat motors employ? On a 12,000 rpm motorcycle engine with shim-over-bucket or shim-under-bucket valves, neglecting checking/shimming them on a regular basis and missing the valves tightening up too much results in big, big, expensive fun. Hydraulic valves such as in the 1200 Sportster engines Buell tuned are just about maintenance free.


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## bassboy1 (Jun 27, 2010)

hwew said:


> Well I'll stick with my 2009 Yamaha 15hp 2-stroke that I just purchased new in the box this month as long as I can. It is only 79 pounds, fuel consumption is not bad, designed to run on E-10 gas, runs smooth above idle, pulls good up to red line, less maintenance, Better dealer network here than other outboard manufactures from Japan, and if needed I can work on it my self. Oh! I can buy performance reeds to get more power out of it. 8) But I think I'll leave it just as it is. Plenty of power for me.
> 
> I had a 1995 Yamaha 15 2-stroke that had lots of hours on and it never gave me problems. I just serviced it when required. Water pump impellers are very easy to put in these 15's. All I know is these Yamaha 2-stroke engines have been proven around the world and they are one of the most sought after 15hp engines in Australia.



I'd stick with those engines as well. You aren't going to beat a carbed 2 stroke in simplicity, reliability, longevity, weight...ity (had to keep the pattern going :lol: ), etc. Well, maybe fuel consumption...ity. 

Let's get back on the original subject here.
I tried and tried and tried to find a saving grace for modern 2 strokes, now that the EPA has stepped in, and ruined a good thing. But, I can't. The advantages that the 2 strokes used to have just aren't there anymore, and Evinrude has apparently forgotten that rods are supposed to stay inside the block. I really thought Yamaha was going to do it for me, but then they nixed the 2 stroke line altogether. Thus, if buying a new motor, my money's on a 4 stroke, unless you can do like hwew, and find one of the few remaining carbed 2 strokes that a few dealers have.

I'm always going to love my carbed 2 strokes, but there are times where a new/newer motor does make practical sense to own, and in that case, my money is on Honda 4 strokes. Haven't seen anything bad about the Suzi's, but they aren't the most common around here so I couldn't say either way. I'm not very fond of the larger Yamaha 4 strokes. They must have shared a business plan with Evinrude. Mercury will always remain a tainted name in my book. :wink: 

Now to stray back off topic.


> 1-Evinrude 4hp Deluxe



Is that not one of the best little motors you've ever had? Even though the size isn't very practical for much of anything I do, I just love that little motor, and I know quite a few other people who have one, and absolutely love them.


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## whitedog59 (Jun 27, 2010)

I had a dilema earlier this year. I was looking for a new aluminum rig to fool around with. I had decided on a Mercury 20 4S as power due to the fact that 2S were scarce to unobtainable. The dealer I bought my last boat from happened to have a bunch of Yamaha 15 and 25 2S. Bottom line is I got the 25 Yammie for about what the 20 Merc would have cost. Next motor will be 4S unless new 2S are developed. I'm pleased at what I got and probably would be okay with the 4S. They both have their good points. If manufacturers can get the weight and throttle response to 2 stroke levels then 4S will be hard tobeat.


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## hwew (Jun 27, 2010)

Hi bassboy1,

If Honda has a good network in your area than that is the engine you should go with. Nothing is more frustrating in the boating season than not being able to get service or parts for an outboard.

The Evinrude 4hp Deluxe is the best 4hp motor I ever had. I still think it is one of the best 4hp engines out there.
Evinrude got that engine right. 2 cylinder 2-stroke with a large flywheel made it a smooth running engine at low speeds. It was a great trolling motor. It would troll for hours with no plug fouling. And it had F-N-R and it wieghed 50 pounds. That is quite light for an over built 4 hp engine. I beleive it uses the same gearcase as the 2 -stroke 6 and 8 hp Evinrudes. And sadly they were all discontinude in 1995.

Henry


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## hwew (Jun 27, 2010)

whitedog59 said:


> I had a dilema earlier this year. I was looking for a new aluminum rig to fool around with. I had decided on a Mercury 20 4S as power due to the fact that 2S were scarce to unobtainable. The dealer I bought my last boat from happened to have a bunch of Yamaha 15 and 25 2S. Bottom line is I got the 25 Yammie for about what the 20 Merc would have cost. Next motor will be 4S unless new 2S are developed. I'm pleased at what I got and probably would be okay with the 4S. They both have their good points. If manufacturers can get the weight and throttle response to 2 stroke levels then 4S will be hard tobeat.



The weight is getting down a bit on 4-strokes.

I think variable cam timing would be a big help for 4-stroke engines.

On the other hand I don't know if it is rumor, and I posted this before, I think some company is working on portable 2-stroke, computer controled electronic fuel direct injected motors.

Now that would be nice.

Henry


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## Home Grown Basser (Jun 27, 2010)

2 smoke, gotta love the giddyup =D
8)


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## Home Grown Basser (Jun 27, 2010)

oh, and when it comes to the carbed 2 strokes. just buy a older one. They last forever if you treat em' right.


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## Home Grown Basser (Jun 27, 2010)

Suzuki's cars and motorcycles both are absolute junk, as well as their outboards. suzsucky if you ask me. When it comes to cars and trucks Chevy. Dirtbikes honda. Motorcycles Harley, Streetbikes, Buell. Outboards Yamaha or Johnson. This is just my opinion. if yours is different dont be harsh about it.


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## hwew (Jun 27, 2010)

Oh boy, Here we go.


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## bassboy1 (Jun 27, 2010)

hwew said:


> Oh boy, Here we go.



I'm not even going to touch this one...


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## clarkbre (Jun 27, 2010)

Game on!!!



Home Grown Basser said:


> Suzuki's cars and motorcycles both are absolute junk, as well as their outboards. suzsucky if you ask me.


Who exactly did ask you? What facts do you have to back that statement up? Why are they junk?



Home Grown Basser said:


> When it comes to cars and trucks Chevy.


Because Japanese cars have much lower quality than American cars? Or is it that the Chevy S10 was based on an Isuzu pup, and the Geo Prizm came off the Toyota Corolla line? Maybe because Saturn Vues (a GM product like Chevy) used Honda engines.



Home Grown Basser said:


> Dirtbikes honda.


Maybe, maybe not.



Home Grown Basser said:


> Motorcycles Harley, Streetbikes, Buell.


Is that why they’re always stopped on the side of the road? Nope, Harley riders stop to enjoy the view…they’re never broken down.



Home Grown Basser said:


> Outboards Yamaha or Johnson.


Very interesting. Yamaha does make a great product. However…you know who made those portable Johnson outboards for a decade or two? *SUZUKI*, yep, their junk! 

Here's some proof for you: https://www.rbbi.com/links/outboard.htm 3/4 down the page. 
Check your facts before making some dumbass statement. 



Home Grown Basser said:


> This is just my opinion. if yours is different dont be harsh about it.


Not being harsh at all. Just pointing out where you haven’t thought through your bold statements.

Yes, machines have there up and down sides. However, maintained properly, a machine should last an extremely long time. Often times neglect on the operators part gets substituted for “brand XYZ sucks.”


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## Jim (Jun 28, 2010)

Guys,

Lighten up!


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## Quackrstackr (Jun 28, 2010)

My momma could whip your momma! 

.. and one for bassboy







:roflmao:


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## bassboy1 (Jun 28, 2010)

Quackrstackr said:


> .. and one for bassboy
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You tryin' to give me high blood pressure or somethin'? :shock:


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## hwew (Jun 28, 2010)

Here is a 4-stroke turbo diesel for you all. :beer: 

https://www.megoutboard.com/index.php

Henry


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## hwew (Jun 28, 2010)

Here is a pretty intresting Mercury engine.

https://www.mercurygovsales.com/technology/optimaxjp.php


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## hwew (Jun 28, 2010)

I hope we will be seeing some new stuff soon.

Lets hope the outboard manufactures will invest more on R&D.

Henry


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