# Float Pods



## surfman (Nov 29, 2016)

Finally broke down and bought some float pods for my 1448, I want that extra inch of floatation so I can get skinny. They wont be here for a couple weeks but I was wondering what kind of caulk to use for glue. I have seen posts on here about 5200 and it being corrosive to aluminum. So what to use? I plan on bolting them on. What about Marine Goop? Any suggestions?


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## Johnny (Nov 29, 2016)

*IMHO* - the problem with any product corroding aluminum is the silicone content.
then - bare aluminum is the common contributing factor in caulk/adhesive failures.
In my past experiences, applying 3M-5200 or Loc-Tite caulk or any silicone free
product to a properly primed and painted finish holds up very well.
so, if you can avoid the silicone products - you "shouldn't" have any problems.
please come back with some photos after you get your pods for more assistance.
Maybe it is time to share this photo again..... from my last bass boat.


jus my Dos Centavos





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## BigTerp (Nov 29, 2016)

surfman said:


> Finally broke down and bought some float pods for my 1448, I want that extra inch of floatation so I can get skinny. They wont be here for a couple weeks but I was wondering what kind of caulk to use for glue. I have seen posts on here about 5200 and it being corrosive to aluminum. So what to use? I plan on bolting them on. What about Marine Goop? Any suggestions?



I have used 5200 for numerous different applications on my boat. Many of those are on bare aluminum. Zero corrosion caused by the 5200.


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## Johnny (Nov 29, 2016)

Terp - what is the length of time you have had the 5200 on bare aluminum?
have you removed the items for inspection?
The photo that I posted, the caulks were probably 10-15 years old and used only in fresh water.
The items that were caulked to the transom were plastic based transducers and a speedometer.
There was no "metal to metal" contact that could have contributed to the corrosion.
so, in my very honest opinion, and from my research, the adhesive alone was the culprit in the corrosion.
you will not know if there is any corrosion on anything until you separate the two surfaces.
once an item is sealed to an aluminum surface, there is no way to tell if the underneath metals 
are corroding or not - only when the item is removed can you tell.
Bottom line is - "your boat = your call".

Edit: everyone considering using 3M-5200 is encouraged to view the technical data sheet on their website. 
And adhere to their conditions of use. https://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/158830O/adh-seal-fast-cure-5200-tech.pdf

It specifically states:
*"Primer:
Use of a primer is an extra step and cost and will depend on the final end use. 
Using primer can improve the corrosion resistance of certain metals as well as improve 
the durability of the bond when exposed to high humidity conditions. Pre-testing for adhesion 
is suggested to determine if a primer is needed. 
Contact your 3M Technical Service representative for primer recommendation and application advice."*

*Typical sealing applications include:*
- Fiberglass deck to fiberglass hull
- Some plastics (test before assembly)
- Wood to fiberglass
- Glass
- Portholes
*- Metals (priming may be required)*

BOATING is definately one of the "high humidity conditions" they refer to.

Product research will always be in your best interest prior to using any
kind of chemical or chemical based products.




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## Shaugh (Nov 29, 2016)

I assume they are the sealed versions being sold to attach to the back corners of the boat ? Why use any sealant at all ? if you're going to bolt or rivet them on why not just leave it at that ? All sealant is going to do is make the job messy and create pockets where moisture can be trapped. There should be no mechanical reason why you need "glue"...


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## surfman (Nov 29, 2016)

Thanks, I've seen the pictures that's why I am asking again because now I need to do it.

Sealant is absolutely necessary, you do not want to just attach them together without sealing the bonding surfaces. Metal to metal, even the same metal will hold water and contribute to corrosion. There are many types of corrosions like, crevice corrosion and others I can't think of right off the top of my head, that occur when there is moisture, especially salt water trapped between two surfaces. The attachment needs to be 100% sealed. With no chance for any moisture to get between the surfaces. Since I am going to bolt it instead of weld it, there is an even greater chance for this to occur. I need to make sure it is done right.

Any recommendations on primer then?


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## Johnny (Nov 29, 2016)

Surfman - is your boat primed and painted now ??
if it is, is it the factory finish or a repaint from a P/O?

each scenario will require different preparation methods.

and speaking of bolt-on floats, there was a mention here while back, maybe on
another forum, about placing large 1/8" nylon washers between the transom and float.
I am only "assuming" to isolate the two mating surfaces and allow
water to flow freely between the two to keep them clean and issue free ........
(this is noted from third hand information only). 
use the search feature here to obtain information from the ones that have actually done it.


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## Shaugh (Nov 29, 2016)

The aviation industry has been simply riveting or bolting aluminum sheet together with some success for many decades without shmearing some material in between the sheets. That goop in between is what will eventually trap salts and moisture. As Johnny suggested, spacers in between the material is the way to go to avoid corrosion best if salt water is part of the equation. Painting the 2 surfaces will also eliminate any fears of corrosion. 

Why dirty up that connection with another material that is not needed ? Much better to have a part that I could take off and put on easily and if needed maintain and clean out imo.... my 2 "unglued" cents worth......


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## Fishfreek (Nov 29, 2016)

I really like the LIFESEAL from Boat life marine products. Works above and below the water line. I wouldn't spread it all over the pods to make a seal. I would apply some around each hole you make for your bolts then after you get the pods installed use it as you would a caulk and seal the seam created between your boat and the edges of the pods. Make sure you let ut cure completely for a few days for best results.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Nov 30, 2016)

Johnny said:


> The photo that I posted, the caulks were probably 10-15 years old and used only in fresh water.
> .



If my boat lasts 15 years, I'm not running it hard enough. LOL.


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## surfman (Nov 30, 2016)

It is already painted with the factory paint. I was not planning on stripping to bare metal, I was only going to clean it thoroughly using a scotch pad and mineral spirits and soap and water and then if needed apply a primer. Any recommendations on a primmer?


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## Johnny (Nov 30, 2016)

personally, I would suggest that you go to the website of the sealant/adhesive that
you plan to use and read as much as you can about it - so you don't use the wrong product.

and in my world, I would not prime the factory painted metal......
If the pods are bare aluminum, they must be etched, primed and painted
prior to installation. (using the installation method of your choice).
https://www.tinboats.net/primer-and-paint-basics/


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## BigTerp (Nov 30, 2016)

Johnny said:


> Terp - what is the length of time you have had the 5200 on bare aluminum?
> have you removed the items for inspection?
> The photo that I posted, the caulks were probably 10-15 years old and used only in fresh water.
> The items that were caulked to the transom were plastic based transducers and a speedometer.
> ...



I've had 5200 on bare aluminum (mostly rivets attached to the hull) for 3-4 years. So not as long as your experience. But the rivets I've had to remove for whatever reason there were no signs of corrosion on the hull nor on the rivet. Not denying what your experience has shown, just sharing my own. But I've yet to find any other examples of 5200 causing corrosion on bare aluminum, actually I've seen the opposite where 5200 is used between differing metals to prevent corrosion. With the wealth of information on the internet, and as much as 5200 is used for marine applications I would think there would be more evidence of it causing what you experienced. But, like you said, if you follow the manufactures instructions all should be good.


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## Shaugh (Nov 30, 2016)

It's a good bet that what Johnny's photos show is a type of poultice corrosion. This occurs under bubbling paint for example. It's when a material is introduced (like silicone) that inevitably loses it's adhesion to the surface and creates pockets of air and moisture that eventually turn acidic and decay the metal. It can be a lot like how your teeth decay... trapped moisture breeds bacteria... bacteria defecates and becomes acidic... Or other chemical reactions as described in the link below.

That's why it's much better to leave clean or painted metals in tight contact with each other or separated by spacers to allow airflow. Tightly mated surfaces have less room for pockets to form than surfaces with a viscous material in between. 

At least then you can separate the pieces and clean and repaint the area if required. By gluing everything together with a viscous material you give yourself little alternative but to hope your "glue" has not created voids that trap stagnant moisture and acids against the surfaces... 

https://marginalmaritimeadvice.blogspot.com/2011/03/poultice-corrosion_5740.html


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## surfman (Dec 1, 2016)

Basically, what you are saying is that the real culprit is probably surface prep, which is usually the case in many instances. Jonny removed material from and existing application, who knows what it looked like when the goo was applied, It is possible that the PO applied the goo right over existing corrosion. That kind of stuff happens all the time and I see people posting pictures of patch jobs on this web site that back that up too.

I also agree that trapped moisture is a problem too.


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## surfman (Dec 15, 2016)

Pods are in!! Yea, now I just need some time to hang them.


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## Molokai (Dec 16, 2016)

Mine too...been busy and its been rainy so im in the same boat for the installation.


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## surfman (Dec 16, 2016)

Too bad we live 1/2 a world apart, we could help each other install them.


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## Molokai (Dec 16, 2016)

No doubt! 2nd set of hands 2nd brain would be really helpful. Curious...who built your pods? I got mine from Fishon Fabrications. They look killer...really well done.


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## surfman (Dec 22, 2016)

I got the beavertail ones from Cabalas, they look fine. have not had a chance to do anything but look them over so far.


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## Al U Minium (Dec 22, 2016)

I have used 5200 in direct contact with bare aluminum for years with no damage what so ever. Use good practice, like clean the contacting surfaces, allow it to set and cure.


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## surfman (Dec 22, 2016)

The beavertail installation guide recommends 5200 if bolting them up. They recommend removing all paint and sanding both surfaces coating the surfaces thoroughly before bolting together. I have some G-Flex epoxy left over from when I repaired my transom that I forgot I had and I believe I have enough to do the job so that is what I am going to use. Only because I have it and it needs to get used up.


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## Johnny (Dec 22, 2016)

Surf - photos of your preparation and installation will be much appreciated !!!


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## surfman (Dec 23, 2016)

I will, thanks.
Jonny, in the photos you posted, you mentioned that these were from boats that the caulk and corrosion were already present, how do you know that the original owner didn't just caulk over bad metal and existing corrosion? There are chemicals present in some kinds of adhesives I am sure that might not be suitable for aluminum things like chlorine for example, but I have not really found anything that shows 5200 will corrode aluminum, I know that some of those caulks are not good to be used with plastic though. I do appreciate the heads up alert though.

_When using 3MTM Marine Adhesive/Sealant 5200 with metals, it may be necessary to prime the surface
to achieve adequate adhesion and durability of the bond. Scotch-WeldTM Structural Adhesive Primer EC-
1945 B/A may be used for priming of most metals._

I think it is obvious this stuff was designed with fiberglass in mind. In the literature that I have been reading it is very vague about metal, it just says “some metals” may require priming, WTF? In some of the literature I read that they have a special primer for metals that will improve bonding, but again, nothing about preventing corrosion, it is for bonding. I am getting tired of reading technical data sheets.

The pod manufactures recommend using it so it should be good, hopefully.


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## Johnny (Dec 23, 2016)

Surf - when we buy an old boat, we have zero clue as to what was
done to it by previous owners or how long ago. The photos that I posted
of the ducer corrosion is just what I found - we can only draw our own conclusion as to how it happened.
I was not there, so I have no idea as to the mounting process that was done probably 5-20 years earlier.
I do know the difference in the popular caulks, so I can visually identify certain products. (most of the time).

and yes, you are so very correct in the daunting task of decyphering the instructions for the products we use.
due to the EPA and other government regulators, manufacturers must scramble to adjust their product
formulas to meet those specifications and still be as adequate to meet the consumers needs.

I have been a sign painter/fabricator and installer for well over 50 years and often
times we are challanged heavily to mount different sign materials to different surfaces with different methods.
this is how we (myself and colleauges) find out what works and what does NOT work for many products.......
Also, preserving and painting wood signs have their own inherent characteristics.
redwood and cedar will be preserved differently than plywood signs.
I have made some plywood signs 20 years ago and they are still standing today.
of course they need to be touched up periodocally, but the wood itself is still sound
after being in the harsh elements 24/7/365 for many years.
So, over the years, I have been exposed to several products that only work in the way
they were intended - anything else will be opening Pandora's Box of possible misfortune. 

This why I advocate the saying: Read, Understand and _FOLLOW_ the directions on the label
of any and all products you may use. They are there for a reason.

I have been an active member in the Sign Industry, Fine Woodworking and Wooden Boat arena since around 1980.
These are very fine places to learn just about anything wood related as well as preservation and painting techniques.
I also have been an instructor in wood carving, wood processing, preservation and painting since around 1990.

Spar Varnish is for exterior wood products
Urethane and Spar Urethane is for interior projects such as floors and furniture.
also I found out that some objects applied to a red brick building with 100% pure silicone will last forever.
the same objects applied a concrete block surface with 100% silicone will fall off in two weeks due to accelerated corrosion.
I guess the bottom line will be to read, understand and follow the instructions on the products you use.
If it says it may affect "some metals" I would only be guessing that they mean aluminum or copper.

jus my Dos Centavos on that there.

Edit:
a new product on the market is a lightweight product with thin aluminum
skins on each side and a foam composite core. Very weather resistant and strong.
we have a joke that goes like this . . . . 
quick - go stick this new aluminum sign on the building using only 100% pure silicone. It should last 20 years.
- and then -
quick - go fix that new aluminum sign that just fell off the building !!!!! with _bolts _this time.



.


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## surfman (Dec 23, 2016)

I pretty much agree although I would not assume "some metals" means any one in particular, steel corrodes rather easily if unprotected for example. As mentioned above there are many forms of corrosion, anaerobic and aerobic, these occur under the right circumstances and we all know what it means to assume.


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## Molokai (Dec 23, 2016)

[URL=https://s1181.photobucket.com/...s/x429/kapaauguy1/20161223-IMG_3333.jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=https://s1181.photobucket.com/...s/x429/kapaauguy1/20161223-IMG_3336.jpg[/img][/url]

Heres mine. I had flanges put on the top and motor side to bolt through and a 8" deckplate to access the inside for the rest of the fasteners. I'm not going to strip the paint on the transom. Im going to prep and prime the mating surface on the pods with zinc chromate and lightly sand the mating surface on the transom before applying 3M 5200. From what ive read most aluminum boats are primed with zinc chromate before painting so to strip it all down seems more work and less corrosion resistance than joining painted/primed surfaces.


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## surfman (Dec 27, 2016)

Great job Molokai they look good. I thought about using the deck plates too they look a lot better but, they are kind of costly and I am probably just going to patch the holes with a plate. 

Well I screwed up and failed to get the materials I need to complete this project over the holidays, too much going on and I just kept getting side tracked plus there are other projects around the house that needed my attention but, I was able to do a little prep work;

Here is one all sanded washed and etched ready for painting.




Here it is all primed. I decided I would go ahead and paint them before I hang them on the boat, I think it will be a lot easier to go it now than later when they are mounted. I am sure I will need to do some touch up but that is okay since I will need to do that anyway.


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## nickwb85 (Dec 27, 2016)

Hey guys! 

I'm fairly knew to the boating/fishing world and was curious what's the biggest benefit to installing these pods? Is it that dramatic of a difference? I have a 2016 Tracker Grizzley 1754SC.


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## surfman (Dec 27, 2016)

As far as a dramatic difference, I won’t know until I mount them but, the reason for mounting them is to offset the weight of the motor and me, especially in the rear of the boat when I am moving slowly over very shallow bottom. I hope it will enable the boat to float at least 2” higher (pretty optimistic). We will see.

That doesn’t sound like much but it can be a huge difference in some areas. I am looking for more clearance for my prop, basically. I don’t have a tunnel or a jet. I really don’t want a jet either although a tunnel would have been nice. I am only installing these because I like to fish a lot of skinny salt water close to shore and up some shallow creeks where deep draft can be a problem. They will essentially turn my 14’ into a 15’ boat.


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## nickwb85 (Dec 27, 2016)

Gotcha,

I look forward in seeing progress and seeing the difference you note!


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## surfman (Dec 27, 2016)

I have been thinking of doing a before and after photo of boat in water. I need to do that to really justify all my hard work and effort.


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## Molokai (Dec 27, 2016)

surfman said:


> I have been thinking of doing a before and after photo of boat in water. I need to do that to really justify all my hard work and effort.


 I was thinking the same thing! I dont know how i would get the photo though if my fat butt was in the boat. I'm adding them for all the reasons you noted as well as two others. The possibility of a following sea swamping the stern is lessened and also, when you take off the bow will rise which means the stern will lower which can be problematic when you are already only inches from coral heads. lol
Looks like a great job painting. What did you use for etching?


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## surfman (Dec 27, 2016)

You can buy phosphoric acid, it is available where paint is sold, it is a cleaning/etching solution. Any hardware store that sells paint should have it, I usually just use it full strength and be sure to wash all surfaces before and after using Dawn dish soap in hot water to de-grease. Probably wouldn't hurt to wipe it down with mineral spirits too.


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## Molokai (Dec 28, 2016)

Cool...thanks 8)


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## skipper123 (Jan 8, 2017)

And my dumb butt just put 100 % clear silicon on the outboard bottom bolts because the 5200 I used the first time leaked. I tried to put it on the bolts from the outside of the outboard bracket and pushed them in thru the hull which leaked. Second time around I pulled the outboard off the transom a couple inches after cleaning off the 5200 with a wire wheel on drill and shined that aluminum up real good then put the silicon in between the outboard and transom as I slid the bolts thru. You guys are saying I just created a corrosion zone right ?


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## Johnny (Jan 8, 2017)

Skipper - just monitor your work and take the appropriate
actions if you see something unusual happening in the silicone area.
I am only guessing that a fresh water application may take many months
to years before it causes any corrosion. Salt water definitely speeds up deterioration.
it is just that some of us have had some bad experiences with 100% clear silicone.
others have not had any problems - - - - thus comes the warnings.........


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## Shaugh (Jan 8, 2017)

Or skip the goop engineering and just use sealing washers ?

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Blue-Hawk-75-Count-1-4-in-x-5-8-in-Neoprene-Bonded-Sealing-Washers/4317824


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## surfman (Jan 9, 2017)

Okay, I finally got my pods installed over the week end, temperatures plunged into the upper 30's so it slowed down the glue hardening but they came out okay, I just need to touch up the paint now and finalize the project. I think I will start another thread on the actual installation. Might be tomorrow before I post it.


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