# 2-stroke for the long haul



## Deadmeat (Aug 4, 2008)

It's been about six years since I sold my Grumman 1542 and now that I'll be retiring in a couple years and moving back to East Tennessee where I'm from I want to get another boat that's similar. For nearly 20 years I hauled my Grumman at least weekly to the lake 12 months a year hooked to a Honda Civic and only burned out one clutch between the two Civics that hauled it. Since we still have two Civics, I want to keep the modifications to the G3 I'm planning to buy as light as possible.

Since I sold my Grumman I now see that most everything seems to be drifting away from 2-stroke engines to 4-strokes and herein lies the problem: I absolutely love 2-stroke engines. In all the years I had my Evinrude 30 hp on the boat I never had it in the shop even once. That sucker was bulletproof but then I pampered it. 4-stroke engines have quite a bit more that can go wrong and need more maintenance. And I don't find mixing oil with gas much of a problem either. Then there's the weight factor. A 4-stroke weighs quite a bit more than a 2-stroke for the same horsepower rating, and that comes into play when it's being hauled by a Civic. 

I know that some lakes are requiring all outboards to be 4-strokes but I don't see that happening in East Tennessee in the near future.

My question is this: Since I really want a 2-stroke motor and since most manufacturers seem to be phasing them out, should I buy one now and just keep it in the garage for a couple years until I retire back to Tennessee or do you think they'll still be around for me to buy then?

Any thoughts you could provide would be greatly appreciated.


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## heavy-chevy (Aug 4, 2008)

the main reason 2 strokes are being phased out is mainly an emissions thing. they realy dont even get much better fuel consumption than a di 2 stroke. if i were you i would go for an old 2 stroke again, they are lighter, more power full, cheaper, and less maintenance. 2 strokes are very simple and easy to work on as well. the only application i see a four stroke as a better choice would be a big offshore boat where fuel burn is a major issue. and yea those old omc are tough engines.


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## Quackrstackr (Aug 4, 2008)

If you buy a new one under 50 hp, I believe all that you will find now is 4 stroke.......

The EPA is causing all manufacturers to halt production because of emissions requirements.


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## Captain Ahab (Aug 4, 2008)

There will be lots of two stoke engines around fro many years - I suggest you keep you eyes out for a real good deal and buy one. Since you have the luxury of time, spend part of that time looking - you should find a great motor at a great price if you do not rush things


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## bassboy1 (Aug 4, 2008)

Seems esquired may have beaten me.



Quackrstackr said:


> If you buy a new one under 50 hp, I believe all that you will find now is 4 stroke.......


There should be 25 and 30 horse Etecs next year......
Of course, for the most part, the DFI two strokes weigh close to that of the four strokes, but I believe these 25 and 30s are of a more reasonable weight.

4 strokes do have their place in more than just what you mentioned chevy, but a two stroke is still probably your best choice.

I doubt the market will make it any harder for you to find a two stroke in a few years, provided you are buying used (many of the older ones still have more life left in them than the new ones that haven't even left the showroom yet). Possibly easier, as more people are jumping on the four stroke band wagon.


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## ShadowWalker (Aug 5, 2008)

It is becoming a lot like ATVs and Dirt Bikes. 4 strokes burn cleaner, so the government is putting the pressure on to go to 4 strokes. The only 2 Stroke ATV that was left was retired this past model year. It was one of the best selling Sport ATVs ever, and you can still pick up good deals on them left and right for the same reasons you will be able to get 2 stroke outboards for years to come. They are simple, reliable, and a ton of them were sold in the years they were produced. People (in general) are always looking to upgrade. I would invest the time you have between now and then looking for that good deal. If you find one, by all means get it and hold on to it. But I wouldn't buy the first reasonably priced one you find, until you need it and have no option.


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## Deadmeat (Aug 5, 2008)

As attractive as buying a used 2-stroke motor sounds, I'm one of those guys who likes to buy stuff new and keep it until the wheels (prop, in the case of outboards) fall off. I bought my 1989 Evinrude 30 hp motor new and kept it 16 or so years. In that time it never crapped out on me once and never saw the inside of an outboard motor repair shop. From the first day I knew every drop of gas I put in it, what the fuel/oil mixture was (I always ran it a bit heavy on oil), changed the lower unit oil more often than the owner's manual suggested, almost never ran it at more than half throttle, and just plain pampered it in every way possible. 

With a used outboard, you just never know how it's been treated regardless of how it seems at first. 

I guess my question is this: Since I like to buy outboards new and since 2-stroke motors are being phased out, do I go ahead and buy a new one now and let it sit in the garage for a couple years watching the warranty run out without the motor ever seeing a drop of water or do I hold out, hoping that 2-stroke motors (new ones, that is) will still be around? I've got the money to buy a new one now, and would do so but I'd rather wait until I'm ready to retire in a couple years before doing it.


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## bassboy1 (Aug 5, 2008)

Seems in a few years, Etec will be the only 2 stroke small outboard left. And, they aren't cheap. Plus, they are still a new outboard, and have the issues of a new outboard. Quite frankly, if you want to buy something to run until it is dead, a used one might be a better option. Unless that is, the run them dead part is the part you desire, and not the long life part. If you like the actual dying of the outboard, then by all means, buy new. But, the point I am trying to make here, is the used ones probably have more residual life left than the new ones have. Find yourself another '89, and you could probably run it well into 2050 before it wears out, unless it has been damaged, and a good mechanic could tell you if it has been overheated, or if the gears are damaged (characteristic of unchecked gear lube - a small problem that would have been detected at a lube change is now a larger one). If the mechanic deems the engine as worthy, who cares if the lube was changed once a month or once every 3 years? The engine has no way of knowing, or caring how many times it was changed, unless damage was done. 

I think you will find that buying new does not always mean longer lasting life. These days everything is built to be disposable. You no longer fix the engine, as just replace parts, or instead of fixing some issue by replacing a tiny spring, or a certain fitting, you have to replace the whole assembly. This quickly makes an engine that has a minor problem a "killed" engine, as it costs more than it is worth to fix some stupid part that seems like no biggy back when. The late 80s, and early 90s seemed to be the turning point for that.

Also, you could look at it this way. You can buy a new engine for what, 5000, depending on size? But, (and I am guessing you are talking about 40 or so here) you can get a used one, 80s model, for around 1000. Even if the logic was correct, about a used engine dying sooner, you would have to go through 4 engines in the life of a new one to make the new one worthwhile (no, my math isn't wrong, I figure if you spend 4k on used engines, it would be worthwhile to spend 5k on a new one, for convenience). Tell me you will kill 4 80s model OMCs in the time that you kill an Etec? Nah, I won't believe ya.


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## Deadmeat (Aug 6, 2008)

Makes sense to me, bassboy1. Great advice, and I see what you mean. I think buying used is the better option.


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## WTL (Aug 6, 2008)

Used is definitly a better option. Not only for the reasons mentioned, but you could get one cheaper than $500. Take your time. Then, whatever issues it has - well they are easy to work on. Rebuild that sucker and you got a new engine using the old, solid technology that they never had a reason to deviate for except political concerns.


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## heavy-chevy (Aug 6, 2008)

i dont think i have EVER seen or heard of any of those engines actually breaking.


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## bassboy1 (Aug 6, 2008)

I have heard, first hand, of a V4 90 Johnson, that for whatever reason, threw a rod, and when it threw the rod, it severed the oil injection hose, and damaged the cooling passages so that only one of the remaining 3 cylinders was getting water, and none were getting oil. That engine still took the fellow 16 miles to the ramp, and then seized within about 100 yards from the dock at the ramp, where he coasted right up. Now that, is a real trooper. 

Heard another, again first hand, where the guy was taking his late 60s Johnson 40 out for a test spin, and figured just for a test run, the thumb screws would be okay, and he would bolt it later. Apparently he was wrong, and his engine was dropped in salt water. Got towed home (lived in the canal, so had his own dock, with another boat) grabbed his other boat, and went to search for the engine. Couldn't find it. Searched again for the next two days, before finding it. Dragged it out, smothered that sucker in WD-40 and 2 stroke oil, replaced the spark plugs, and magneto, and that baby roared again. Doubt that will happen with a new one. 

I have seen plenty of blocks with holes in the side, but that was usually because somebody bought the two stroke, but couldn't find the "dip stick" to check the oil, and figured that whatever oil was in it would be fine for one trip, and he would deal with that later.  :lol: Or something to that sort. (have heard the mentioned scenario as it was written, and quite a few other similar, but not worthy of typing scenarios)

Now, I have seen plenty of blocks of newer motors, with little windows to the cylinder for no apparent reason as well. Disheartening to walk into a boat shop, and see 8 or so blocks, of one particular motor, that have been replaced under warranty, which obviously proves it was manufacture damage, not user error (or warranty would be voided).


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## Deadmeat (Aug 9, 2008)

Thanks for all the great advice, guys. I'm just one of those folks who firmly believes that the more parts, the more that can go wrong, and the 4-stroke certainly has more than a 2-stroke. I'm not good at fixing much of anything (my definition of a precision tool is a sledge hammer and anvil), so I want reliability and simplicity above all else. Oh, how I wish I had my old 30 hp Evinrude back and knew how many thousands of hours I had on it without a speck of trouble. I'll start looking for a good used 2-stroke.

Also, I just found this website a couple weeks ago and am amazed at the ingenuity you guys have in fixing up boats to suit your individual needs. I'm already sitting here with a pile of advice and photos of your boats and compiling them into a notebook so that when the time comes I'll be ready to start the modifications.


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