# Torn keel repair



## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

Hello everyone, I have a new project that I'm looking to save from going to the scrap yard!

87 10' Gamefisher, aluminum semi-V. I bought this boat because I felt bad for it honestly. The guy was going to scrap it and I couldn't let it happen so I bought it. :roll: He notified me that it had a leak in the bow area (which I could see was poorly attempted to be fixed w/ fiberglass). The same day that I bought it I put it in the lake and tested it. Sure enough, it had a decent leak coming from the area of the fiberglass mat patch. I took it back home and carefully ripped off the fiberglass patch and to my unwanted surprise, there is a nice 10-12" long tare in the bow keel of the boat.

I sanded down the bottom of the hull and am preparing to fix this old boat. I wanted it because I sold my old jon boat and my whaler is too much of a pain to bring to some of the smaller lakes I fish. I don't want to weld it because I'll probably end up paying way more than the boat is worth to get a weld, I do want to fix it the right way, but welding is out of the question. I went to Lowes and bought some aluminum sheeting, I have a supply of 3M 5200, roll on bed liner and JB weld steelstick from a previous project.

My main concern is how should I tackle this project? The location of the tare is making it difficult to decide. I was thinking I may use pop rivets and fill the rivet holes with 5200, go over that with epoxy. I also planned to do a coat of bed liner under the waterline for peace of mind. (I know some guys don't like to use bed liner on boats but I used it on my last jon and loved it). I just want the boat to float, I don't care if I have to do the repair again in a couple of years... I'm missing out on fishing haha!

Here are a few pics of the rip, it's pretty ugly... Any and all suggestions are appreciated. I only have tomorrow off so I'm looking to get something accomplished if possible.

To see the pictures better, go over them with your mouse and click on them, when the little window pops up, click the button to the left of the X at the top and this will expand the pic to actual size so you can see the tare in more detail.

Thanks,
Mike

P.S. I thought about using ss bolts/nuts coated in 5200 but I would probably need a good 30-36 bolts so I'm not sure if pop riveting is the way to go.... Regular non hollow boat rivets I'm not sure how to use and probably wont have a helper to back them while I hit them so that's a no go.


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## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

I was thinking of attempting something like this..

The BLACK is representing the existing keel and rivets. The RED is representing the aluminum sheet going OVER the existing keel and sealing with lots of 5200 and about 30 rivets or bolts using the existing 30 or so rivet holes in the repair area of the keel by knocking the old ones out.

This all sounds good "on paper", But I'm not sure it will work and have a lot of concerns.

Please excuse the crude quick draw up haha.

Mike


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## trueblue1970 (Jul 4, 2012)

No experience whatsover in repairing holes that large, but...have you considered taking it to get welded?

Anyway, cool boat, look forward to watching your project!


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## acabtp (Jul 4, 2012)

how do you plan to form the sheet of patch aluminum to the shape of your hull well enough so that it can seal?

5200, a sheet of aluminum, a bag of rivets, bedliner every few years will be more expensive than getting it welded and fixed right once.



Mizzie said:


> I do want to fix it the right way, but welding is out of the question.


Well then no, you do not want to fix it the right way. Good luck.


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## wihil (Jul 4, 2012)

If welding's out of the question (not really sure why, it can't be that expensive...), the next thing I would think about trying would be that fake aluminum brazing stick stuff - it looks like it'd fill the bulk of it. It's probably going to be more expensive to buy all the product necessary. 5200 is a darling on here, but IMO it's for little leaks and or sealing holes, not gashes.

What I'd do is call up your local technical college that offers a welding cert, and find out if you have the students "practice" some welding on it. Might look ugly, but it'd be fixed!


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## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

Thanks for the replies! I thought about calling a school but considering it's July, I don't think any are in session. I thought about having it welded but from what I've read on here it takes a bit of skill, so I'm assuming that skill translates into a bigger bill for me. I DO want to fix it the correct way. I'm not a hack job type person which is why I thought what I was thinking was the next best thing to welding. I also thought a weld, if not done 100% correct would fail in this area due to movement/flexing?

I already had the 5200 tubes and such so all I spent money on was a $10 piece of sheet aluminum. Not sure how I would form the sheet aluminum to shape, I was thinking once I started riveting it in place that it would basically form itself. But not positive which is why I posted asking for help haha .

Like I said, I understand welding is the way to go but not sure if it's doable in my situation? Thanks so much for the help so far, I look forward to posting my restoration of this little old Gamefisher once this repair is done. I am planning to add a carpeted floor (not a casting deck as I believe the boat is too small unlike my last jon). But a nice carpeted floor/bench with some swivel seats, rod holders and a little 4hp, I think she'll be a fun little boat and deserves a second life!  

Thanks a bunch and Happy 4th to everyone!

Mike


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## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

wihil said:


> 5200 is a darling on here, but IMO it's for little leaks and or sealing holes, not gashes.



Yes I agree, I may have worded my original post wrong. What I meant was I would "sandwich" some 5200 between the boat keel and new sheet aluminum as well as coat the rivets and seams around the repair. But like I said before, It sounds good in writing but you guys are the experts which is why I'm all ears and open to suggestions! 

Can you tell me more about this alum stick stuff? A link? I have JB weld steelstick "putty" not sure if it's similar?

Thanks,
Mike


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## sixgun86 (Jul 4, 2012)

I don't think anything else will hold it for the long run. It will probably just keep spreading and try to separate. Especially with weight in the bow.

The problem you will have with welding will determine how thick the metal is to weld. It's really easy to blow through some of these thin tins.. Since the trouble spot is thick, you shouldn't have a problem. Just need a welder that can also fabricate, lol.

Shouldn't be more than $100 repair. Afterwards fill the inside up w/ 5200. 

I would never put any respectable motor on that boat unless it was welded.


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## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

What would cause a tare like this to keep separating? Should I add some inner supports to the hull? Even if I were to weld I feel like it would still want to separate which is why I also felt rivets would hold it together a little better, sort of like a brace?


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## Kismet (Jul 4, 2012)

It is, of course, your boat, thus, your choice.

But call around for aluminum welding choices. As it stands now, you "don't think" classes would be in session. However, the instructors probably did not flee the country and could easily do the job. A bunch of other welders can do simple aluminum welding--and that is what it is.

I'd bet $50 to $100, tops, maybe less. What seems horrific to you, is a simple task to an experienced pro who has the tools.

I'm suggesting you make your decision based on INFORMATION, not a feeling that it would be prohibitively expensive.

The damage looks like it is where it might occur with constant beaching of the boat on an abrasive shoreline.

What ever did it, did it good. Obviously, you can patch it...the previous owner did. But for a minor investment you have rid yourself of the problem forever. 

Your call. Best wishes.


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## Redleg62 (Jul 4, 2012)

Weldon's really is not that expensive. I had 4 inches added to a transom to fit a long shaft motor. Materials and labor came to $60. Took him two hours. Can't hurt to shop around


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## wihil (Jul 4, 2012)

Mizzie said:


> Yes I agree, I may have worded my original post wrong. What I meant was I would "sandwich" some 5200 between the boat keel and new sheet aluminum as well as coat the rivets and seams around the repair. But like I said before, It sounds good in writing but you guys are the experts which is why I'm all ears and open to suggestions!
> 
> Can you tell me more about this alum stick stuff? A link? I have JB weld steelstick "putty" not sure if it's similar?
> 
> ...



Here's a link to the aluminum brazing rods I was talking about - https://durafix.com/

I know one member used it on a tin here, but I don't know what became of it long term. It will fill, but it looks expensive for what it is (IMO).

I still say try and call up the local tech - I know they run welding classes all year long up here, as a lot of people take evening classes to get certed. Welder's are in demand right now up here, so the schools are capitalizing on it where ever they can. 

AFA the 5200 sandwich, I know what you mean - again, on here a few members have made "patches" with aluminum plate and 5200 and blind riveted them in - but those patches were on the flats of the boat, not the keel. The problem is the angle. 

I still say along with everyone else that welding's the best bet - I'd bust out the phone and make a bunch of calls. 10min can really paint a better picture.


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## Bob Landry (Jul 4, 2012)

Cheap and good do not work in the same sentence. It's not a very big tear. The metal could be pulled to gether and helioarc welded for a minimun charge at a good welding shop. If you figure the cost of all of the materials to do a patch and factor your time messing with it, welding is going to be the best way to go and it will be a permanent repair, not a patch that you are going to have to address again.


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## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

You know what? You guys sold me on welding, granted it cost me less than $100 I believe it's worth it. Thinking about going through this again in a few years, or a new owner if I were to sell it, welding does make sense. I guess I was trying to justify my method haha.

I'm going to call around tomorrow and hopefully find a reasonable rate. The only thing that scares me is I hope the shop know their stuff and what to use with aluminum.

Quick question, how do I pull the metal together to make it easier for the welder? Is it possible to lay a bead that thick or are they going to have to fabricate a patch? 

Thanks,
Mike


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## Bugpac (Jul 4, 2012)

Ball peen hammer with care. Most any proffesional welding shop knows how to weld aluminum.


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## Mizzie (Jul 4, 2012)

Sounds good thank you. Nice bass you got there.

Mike


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## novaman (Jul 4, 2012)

Nice project to do :WELCOME: . And yes ,welding is the only way. Looking at the pics, someone already tried to rivet a patch in,( notice the 2 BIG rivets, and the way the material is gound away), it didn't tear first, but when it got to where there wasn't hardly any material left it tore. For Your safety and pc. of mind look up a fab shop who can form and fab the aluminum from experience not, somebody who's willing to "try it". A $100 dollars should more than cover it , at least in My neck of the woods. Good luck, and we'll we waiting for more pics of the repair and the mods.


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## Kismet (Jul 4, 2012)

> Quick question, how do I pull the metal together to make it easier for the welder? Is it possible to lay a bead that thick or are they going to have to fabricate a patch?



Relax. Let them do it. They will do it the best way. 

You won't save anything by pounding on aluminum for two minutes. 

It will be fine.

I know it is your new baby, now let the Drs. do their work. 

Have fun.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jul 5, 2012)

Is there a casket type material in between the aluminum? If so the heat of welding can cause more leaks.


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## MrSimon (Jul 5, 2012)

I had two 10" seem tears and four cracked ribs welded for about $100 at an off-road Jeep fabrication shop.

Google, a telephone, and 30 minutes is the way to go. Look for fabrication shops, off-road shops, racing shops, and that sort of thing. These kinds of places will look at your repair as a side job and won't charge much. Going to a dedicated weld shop might be more pricey because its their bread and butter.

Mom and pop autobody shops are also a good options. 

Just call around and chat them up. If you are going to get into aluminum boats as a hobby, forming a good relationship with a good welder is super important.


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## sawmill (Jul 5, 2012)

Don't start hammering on it let the shop do it. If you do it it may cause more to repair. As far as it getting to hot to hurt the gasket they can use a heat sink and not damage anything. I had a lower unit welded on a motor I bought and they weled that with all the seals and bearing in it with no damage. So let a shop do everything.


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## bcbouy (Jul 5, 2012)

if that was my boat,i'd have them cut out that section of torn keel and fab up a new piece and then weld it in.just my 2 cents.


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## Mizzie (Jul 6, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies and help fellas, I appreciate it!

Today I called around, got a few quotes then I went to my local bait shop and asked him if he had any suggestions. He referred me to a Marine transport & repair shop which also actually specializes in Marine/aluminum welding. I brought the boat to the guys, who were very helpful, Although I think they thought I was a little crazy for wanting to put $ into the boat haha. Real nice guys, the boat is sitting in their garage right now and will be taken care of tomorrow. I pick it up at 3pm after work tomorrow and actually can't wait.... feels like Christmas for me! I thank you guys for 'slapping' some sense into me! I usually like doing all of my own repairs so I was reluctant to let anybody else touch it, but welding really is the best way. 

This isn't the first old tin I've brought back from the dead! I'll post some pictures. tomorrow of my last Jon boat I did a "total restoration" on. 

Will update with pics of the weld once I pick her up from the shop, hopefully good news!

P.s. Will I be frowned upon if I roll on a layer or two of truck bed liner? or is that considered a hack job? I want to for peace of mind and durability, I know they sell durable epoxy boat paints but since I already have the bedliner, why not? haha. Also, this stuff rolls on smooth as to not cause drag unlike some bedliner paints. 

Thanks,
Mike


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## MrSimon (Jul 6, 2012)

That's great that you found a good place to fix the boat.

Regarding the bedliner, well, you are fixing up an old beat-up aluminum boat, so pretty much anything is fair game. You could cover the thing in super glue and nobody would give you a hard time  

My personal preference is to leave the bottom of boats un-coated. If it doesn't leak, that's plenty good enough for me. Coating the hull just means that eventually you will have to remove the coating for one reason or another. Removing coating to fix rivets or weld cracks is a huge pain the butt.

Unless you plan to run shallow rocky rivers, or plan to beach it on gravel or cement regularly, I don't think you'll need to coat it.


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## Kismet (Jul 6, 2012)

Good work, Mike. =D> 

congratulations on finding a shop so easily.

As for the rest, it is your boat. If you want to put a stripper pole and a flat screen on it, have at it.

Enjoy it and be safe.


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## Mizzie (Jul 6, 2012)

I was thinking about a stripper pole and flatscreen but not sure I'll have enough room after I install my disco ball, kegerator and popcorn maker. We'll see though 

About the bed liner, my trailer for this is a flat trailer which means I usually beach my boats and back the trailer down to (but not in) the water. So maybe I'll just coat the keel as that's the part that takes the most abuse when beaching. I considered using my 17' Boston Whalers trailer while the Whaler is docked but for such a light boat it seemed overkill. 

Few more hours till I pick it up, excuse my lack of knowledge here but is the boat water ready after this or do welds need a certain amount of dry time to set? I may have just won the worse question of the month award haha.

Mike


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## Kismet (Jul 6, 2012)

when de weldes is done, they's done. 

bring a PFD and a grin. 


Have fun.


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## Mizzie (Jul 6, 2012)

haha okay. And yes a PFD is a given. I'm a former Coastie and have witnessed too many tragedies to know, always keep a PFD onboard even if you're only in a small lake fishing near shore.


Mike


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## Mizzie (Jul 7, 2012)

Sorry I took so long to update, I was busy in the garage all night!

Picked the boat up today, the guys did a good job and even put some epoxy on the rivets around the area as a precaution. They also repaired a hole in my hollow keel skeg and fixed my rear bench seat support which was missing some rivets which I wasn't expecting them to do so that was nice of them..

Here's some pics.


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## Mizzie (Jul 7, 2012)

P.S. If the bottom wasn't so dinged up I would have left it bare aluminum because I liked the look, But having this stuff on will give me a little peace of mind. I only painted the bottom of the boat (the area I had sanded previously). Not sure what color I want to paint the topsides of the boat and what kind of paint I'm going to use yet. Much more to come.



As promised earlier.... Here's a pic of my previous tin boat which I brought from a leaky, faded basic blue jon boat with no motor, a weak transom etc to this, doesn't hold a candle to most of the conversions I've seen here but I loved it and got a lot of compliments on it... I sold that boat in the summer of 2010 and I actually just seen it on craigslist a few months ago, still looks great... I wanted to buy it back but the guy was asking a lot more than what I sold it for! :roll: 

As for this new project... I already want to put a carpeted floor, low pedestal swivel seats, couple other odds and ends... If I do deck it, it will be a lightweight deck more for looks rather than fishing from because the bow of this is a lot more 'tippy' than the flat bottom when standing up so no deck fishing/standing. Will start a build thread when the time comes. 


Thanks,
Mike


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## Kismet (Jul 7, 2012)

> Picked the boat up today, the guys did a good job and even put some epoxy on the rivets around the area as a precaution. They also repaired a hole in my hollow keel skeg and fixed my rear bench seat support which was missing some rivets which I wasn't expecting them to do so that was nice of them..




Nice you found professionals. Appears like they've been here before. Good work, and nice of the bait shop guy to suggest them.

Previous boat is great.

Now...on to your blank canvass...and your new masterpiece.

Have fun.


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## nlester (Jul 7, 2012)

Same boat I have. I have a slatted floor of 1 1/2 " by 1/4" slats that is removeable. This keep everything drier in the boat and is pretty light. I also added a slatted wooden shelf in back of the bow seat. It gives me a place for the fish finder, tackle box, a place to prop my feed if I am drift fishing and a place underneath for the battery and a rain suit. Everything is removable so I can still launch it from the bank. I had a 7" post for the rotating seat for almost 2 years I but took it off because it would be very easy to flip the boat if you suddenly reach for something that is going over the side. I did not get wet but I did not realize how quickly I could shift the center gravity from that height. I hope you enjoy the boat as much as I do.


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## Mizzie (Jul 7, 2012)

Thanks a lot. I took it out today for some fishing after work. Boat did great, no leaks. I'm very happy with it. I still haven't painted the sides or inside yet that will probably be next weekend. 

nlester, I'd love to see pictures of the floor set up and of your boat if you get a chance post em please.

Thanks,
Mike


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## nlester (Jul 13, 2012)

My floor is more of a prototype that I will replace now that I know that it works. It is rough sawn wood cut 5/16" thick and 2" wide. It is loose laid but sturdy. I can pull it out to take the boat cross country on the dolly and launch it from the bank. 

Here is the floor between the two bench seats. the ends of the slats rest on the aluminum boat bottom.


 

 Cliick to enlarge

I have a shelf that hooks on the bottom lip of the bow seat, fits between the grooves that run along the side of the baot and is held in place by bungee cords that hook to the front of the bow seat, run under the bow seat and shelf to hook to the back of the shelf and pull everything together. 


 

 

 



My battery is held in place by a frame under the bow seat.




Even though nothing is fasten in place, all of it feels solid. The shelf on the bow is even sturdy enough that I used it for a step getting in and out of the boat.

I have one more section of slated floor that fits behind the last bench seat. Besides making the floor flat, it keeps the things in my boat a lot dryer because there was always water puddling around and getting things wet. There is plenty of stroage room behind the battery under shelf for rainsuits, drift chutes, anchor, etc.


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## nlester (Jul 31, 2012)

Here is the information on the 10' Sears modified V-Hull. I know from experience the floatation informaton is accurate. 

Below is a link to a conversion of a 12' version.

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=26991


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