# Repair #2



## SVNET (Oct 12, 2008)

Well,

I am well into repair #2, getting the motor to start.

I have a clean plastic tank with fresh premium grade gas mix.

I have brand new clear hoses which show gas reaching all the way to the carburetor.

But, when I pull to start, most of the time I get nothing and once it a while it will run for 30sec max.

I have unplugged the spark plug cable and laid it in front of the spark with hope, but have not seen any spark either.

Whats next ?

I took a look at all the visible cables and everything seems very clean, no rusty connection any where.

I know there are some electrical connections under the magneto but I have not been in there yet.

Any hits or other ideas to try out ?

Regards.


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## bassboy1 (Oct 12, 2008)

Test your spark. Either with a spark light, or by taking off the cable, unscrewing the plug itself, and ground it to the block. If you don't ground it, I guarantee you will not have spark.


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## SVNET (Oct 12, 2008)

bassboy1 said:


> Test your spark. Either with a spark light, or by taking off the cable, unscrewing the plug itself, and ground it to the block. If you don't ground it, I guarantee you will not have spark.



Could you elaborate more on this point, I feel as if I did not get everything here...

So I should unscrew the plug itself from the block, leave it hook to its cable and get the plug close to its own thread on the block hole, it should spark from there ?


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## Captain Ahab (Oct 12, 2008)

You got it SV - just have someone hold the spark plug against something metal on the engine and start cranking (I think you have a pull start so start pulling) - you will see a blue spark 

It is probably not your spark if the motor runs for a bit and them quits. You can try removing the bowl at the bottom of the carb and seeing if the float is working - also, clean out the bowl if there is any sediment

I know you said something about a bad fuel pump - have you tested the fuel pump (just unhook the fuel line and start pulling - fuel should pump out)

Finally, does the carb have a choke? Is that working?


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## ben2go (Oct 12, 2008)

The end of the spark plug needs to be against bare metal on the engine.This will allow the spark plug to fire.If the spark plug isn't touching bare metal,it will not produce a spark.


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## SlimeTime (Oct 12, 2008)

You have spark or it wouldn't run for 30 seconds. Look under the fuel pump for a screen that may be plugged or cracked diaphram. I say your problem is fuel, float (or sticking needle) could be another posibillity.

ST


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## SVNET (Oct 12, 2008)

SlimeTime said:


> You have spark or it wouldn't run for 30 seconds. Look under the fuel pump for a screen that may be plugged or cracked diaphram. I say your problem is fuel, float (or sticking needle) could be another posibillity.
> 
> ST



Thanks all for the idea to test for sparks, it works and I do have spark so that is not the issue...

When I pump fuel manually I see fuel go through and past the engine owns pump and reaching the the carb front door.

The problem must be either the fuel pump or the carb itself, but we do have spark and available fuel up to the fuel pump.

I will take apart the fuel pump to check it and take a couple of pictures for you guys...


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## Zum (Oct 12, 2008)

If you keep squeezing the ball,does your motor keep running?
Just keep manuallly squeezing it for awhile and see if it stays running longer.


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## SVNET (Oct 12, 2008)

Zum said:


> If you keep squeezing the ball,does your motor keep running?
> Just keep manuallly squeezing it for awhile and see if it stays running longer.



yep, it is heading that way...

Everything happens so quick that it is hard to squeeze at the same time, and I can never tell when is going to do a 30 sec run.

I did took the fuel pump apart, cleaned and put it back together, then I prime it well squeezing it, and that time it actually ran for over a minute...

I think the issue is fuel pump related...

does it matter that there is air in the fuel line?

below are pictures of the fuel pump parts, could someone explain to me the concept behind this pump style ?


how it works, the membrane ? 

how does the inner parts looks to you?

sorry, typing with one hand, got my youngest on my lab.....


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## SlimeTime (Oct 12, 2008)

So was there any dirt in it? 

Did you take the small filter out & clean it as well? 

Does the primer bulb get firm when you pump it?

+ & - pressure from the crankcase operate the diaphram back & forth, like a plunger. Looks don't always mean anything if there's a small hole or tear in the diaphram.

I'd probably rebuild the pump & carb & be done with it. 

ST


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## SVNET (Oct 12, 2008)

There is not much to the pump, so a rebuilt I guess will be to replace the membrane ? Where would get that locally ?

I think sears wants $170 for a new fuel pump... and $200 for a new Carb...

picked up the yellow book and was calling people around looking for a local mechanic... None want to work on such small engine...

Finally found a guy at a local marina that usually doesn't like to work on such small engines but agreed
for me to drop it up to diagnose the problem for $90 1hr labor which can be apply to the repair if I want to repair it...

The guy advised that these sears small motors are a pain in the rear, the motor were built in Mexico for Sears and the carb system was not well design so it is like a disease, they all suffer from it.

My guess is that he will just clean the carb, but if that ain't it I will be down $90 or who knows how much to repair it...


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## SlimeTime (Oct 12, 2008)

Might see if NAPA can help on parts (if you have one local), get the #'s off the motor. I was able to get Chrysler fuel pump & carb kits from them. I think Ben listed the Sears parts website at one time, I'd think they have rebuild kits (both should be less than $40-50 I'd have to think.

$90 an hour for mechanic? :roll: He may as well have told you he didn't want to work on it......I'd have had to laugh at him. I don't think you'd have a problem rebuilding them yourself, you've done pretty good so far. Take pics if needed to help with reassembly.

ST


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## Andy (Oct 12, 2008)

SlimeTime said:


> I'd probably rebuild the pump & carb & be done with it.
> 
> ST



I agree. with a hole so small you can't see it, it will not function correctly. kits aren't very expensive, and would save you alot of headache on troubleshooting what is the problem only to be solved by a rebuild kit anyways.


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

Good, out on the hunt for rebuild kits...

As you all can tell, I am not the smartest guy on the block but I can get around when I put myself into things, and with my limited knowledge of this kind of stuff, I must admit that I am a bit, uhmm whats the word, about this whole fuel pump concept.

You know how much it takes for me to manually pump gas all the way up to the motor area, I just don't see how that little membrane can keep up, I think that is a system design to fail... If that motor is to be run on rough waters and under high demand, it will be Chaos...

So let me try to explain this to see if I am getting the concept...

As the piston goes up and down, on the rear end it must create some air flow as it push down, and that is the pressure that should push and suck this membrane back and forward and hard enough for the suction of the membrane to open and close those two little metal plates that act as gate keepers to the gas coming in and the gas going out ?

Mean while the membrane is some what see through, meaning gas can go through it and into the crank case via the little hole that allows for the air pressure to come into the fuel pump chamber.

Is that how it works ?

How much power does it takes to keep the carb full of gas at all time without overflowing it, which that's the job of the float, even if too much gas comes in the float keeps control...

how about if one buy pass the pump and let gravity keep gas on the line at all time...


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## ben2go (Oct 13, 2008)

SlimeTime said:


> Might see if NAPA can help on parts (if you have one local), get the #'s off the motor. I was able to get Chrysler fuel pump & carb kits from them. I think Ben listed the Sears parts website at one time, I'd think they have rebuild kits (both should be less than $40-50 I'd have to think.
> 
> $90 an hour for mechanic? :roll: He may as well have told you he didn't want to work on it......I'd have had to laugh at him. I don't think you'd have a problem rebuilding them yourself, you've done pretty good so far. Take pics if needed to help with reassembly.
> 
> ST



Yep.Some of the NAPA stores that have been in business for 30 years or more sometimes have parts.If your engine fly wheel says tecumse you are in luck.Sear's still has parts.Fuel pump element is around $15 to $20.Sad thing is sear's no longer services outboards.At least none around me does.I have a 1980 Gamefisher that I am working on.

Here's the website for sear's parts.Just enter your model number where it says model number.It will list everything available.Ignition parts are straight from old tecumse push mowers.Those parts are fairly cheap from a local lawn mower shop.

https://www.searspartsdirect.com/partsdirect/index.action


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## Captain Ahab (Oct 13, 2008)

SVNET said:


> does it matter that there is air in the fuel line?




YES - you probably have an air leak somewhere along the line. Make certain that all you fittings are tights, 

*
DOES THE BULB GET HARD WHEN YOU PUMP IT?* IT SHOULD GET FULL AND HARD AND STAY THAT WAY - IF NOT, YOU HAVE A LEAK


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## phased (Oct 13, 2008)

I would think if the pump diaphragm does not have a crack or split and is not hard (still flexable) it is OK. Hold it up to a good light source and check it. And if the little filter is not clogged it should pump.
Did you take the bowl off the bottom of the carb and check the float as slimetime suggested? That is a quick and easy thing to check. It should swing freely and the needle valve should move freely. If the motor has not been run in some time and the float is stuck down this seats the needle valve which will not let gas enter the carb even if the pump is pumping. It may be letting just a small amount of fuel get through thus allowing it to start but not run. 
Just a quick thing to check without having to spend any $$'s.


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> SVNET said:
> 
> 
> > does it matter that there is air in the fuel line?
> ...



I will go through all the connections to make sure they are well tighten, but then how do I bleed the system...

Just by looking at the clear hoses I can tell there is big gaps of air in the houses...

Second, the carburator is in such a place that for me to take the bottom cup I would have to lift off the whole engine...

I will have to check if there is a way to get rid off the bottom plastic plate... which will give me access to the carb.

If I have to pull up the engine, what is the relationship between the top part and the bottom part, is there like a gear shaft that I will be able to just lift up ? Just want to get an idea....


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## Captain Ahab (Oct 13, 2008)

You do not bleed the system - the air will get forced out through the carb. 1st try to get the air out and see if it runs before you start lifting the engine off the lower unit


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

Well,

Here is a good write up about fuel pumps... I just have a lot of details to check up on before I dive into anything mayor....

Now I want to make sure the compression is good too... I will pick up one of those compression tester today...

https://www.boatpartstore.com/fuelpump.asp

https://www.boatpartstore.com/fuelpump.asp

Standard outboard fuel pump troubleshooting (All brands/models)


There isn't really too much involving fuel pump troubleshooting, and I'm rather amazed at how many fuel pump kits we sell in a years time, as standard outboard fuel pumps don't really act up that much in my experience of 20-some years of wrenching. If you feel though the fuel pump is your problem, read on.

A standard outboard fuel pump is a simple device that operates off the pulse of an engines cylinder. A basic rubber fuel line connects the fuel pump to a pulse valve (some models of fuel pump attach directly to the block with a gasket, sealing pulse passage to cylinder), which is normally threaded into the block with provisions of a clear passage to a specified cylinder. The up and down stroke of the piston in the specific cylinder is what causes the fuel pump diaphragm to flutter, resulting in pumping fuel from tank to carbs.

So how do I know the fuel pump is doing what it is suppose to?
As described above, the fuel pump requires an adequate pulse from the cylinder that it is attached to, so first thing is to make sure compression on that cylinder is up to snuff or the fuel pump can't do it's job. If compression checks out, then next thing is to check fuel pump pressure. All non fuel injected outboard motors operate with a fuel pump pressure of about 5 to 7 psi. If consideribly less than 5 to 7 psi exists between fuel pump and carb/s, the motor is likely to be starving for fuel causing idle and/or upper rpm operation to suffer, not to mention a dangerously lean condition.

So what if everything to do with pulse supply to the pump is good, but I still suspect the pump has a problem?
Although I mentioned not experiencing many fuel pumps actually being bad, it is indeed possible for either the diaphragm, check valves, or other problem to develop in a fuel pump. If it's plainly worn out, then so be it, install a kit or replace pump entirely, but I would suggest checking all other things in this troubleshooter page before just taking it for granted your time and money spent on a fuel pump kit or replacement pump will solve your motor's woes.

Could anything else cause the fuel pump to not provide adequate fuel supply to the motor?
The answer is yes. There could be a restriction or loose connection from tank to fuel pump, amongst other things. Assuming you have no leaks (including pinholes in hoses) anywhere in-between, the following would be things to check for:

Fuel tank internal pickup tube clogged, broken off, or otherwise defective. 
Anti syphon valve located on tank (is so equipped) could be defective (check ball/spring). 
Any kinked hoses between tank and pump. 
Defective in-line squeeze bulb (usually the internal check valve). 
Defective or incorrectly attached fuel line connectors. 
Clogged fuel filter. 
Inadequate fuel tank vent or kinked vent hose. 

Thats about all there is to a standard outboard fuel pump trouble shooting guide. If you should run across a rare or "quirky" condition not covered here, you are always welcome to contact us with your questions. Happy pumping!


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## Andy (Oct 13, 2008)

https://www.discount-marine-parts.com

Give these guys a call, that is where I got my parts for my Sears motor. I checked on the Sears website, got the part # that I needed, called them, told them what I needed and give them the part #, 2 days later my parts were here. They are VERY helpful and they will probably have any part you need. 
I even looked on ebay for parts for mine. Never purchased any from there just for this reason... Parts that were said to be the right part looked nothing like the right part I received. I was scared that would be the case. I'm sure there are other places that you can actually talk to a person and not just type in a number for the part you need, But I just had a GREAT transaction with discount marine parts and will buy from them again if the time ever comes....

Just have the chassis # and part #'s ready when you call them. 

Good luck.


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

Andy said:


> https://www.discount-marine-parts.com
> 
> Give these guys a call, that is where I got my parts for my Sears motor. I checked on the Sears website, got the part # that I needed, called them, told them what I needed and give them the part #, 2 days later my parts were here. They are VERY helpful and they will probably have any part you need.
> I even looked on ebay for parts for mine. Never purchased any from there just for this reason... Parts that were said to be the right part looked nothing like the right part I received. I was scared that would be the case. I'm sure there are other places that you can actually talk to a person and not just type in a number for the part you need, But I just had a GREAT transaction with discount marine parts and will buy from them again if the time ever comes....
> ...



Well, thanks so much for answering my next question, what would be a good place to buy parts from...

I will stop at the local Napa store, they are very dry in personallity, and very expensive, but they sure know their parts, it is always a pleasure to see their knowledge working for me...

But, if I can't buy local, then I will defenitely give these people that you recomended a try, I think instead of spending $90+ in labor work, I will ask my friend David to help me and we will put a new repair kit on both, the pump and the carb.

If anyone else has had a good experience with other vendors, please let me know...


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## KMixson (Oct 13, 2008)

SVNET said:


> You know how much it takes for me to manually pump gas all the way up to the motor area, I just don't see how that little membrane can keep up, I think that is a system design to fail... If that motor is to be run on rough waters and under high demand, it will be Chaos...
> 
> So let me try to explain this to see if I am getting the concept...
> 
> ...





The system should operate kind of like this depending on make model and type of motor. They are not all the same

The priming bulb is a check valve. As you pump it, it flows only one way. As it goes from the bulb, it goes through the fuel line connector(at the motor)(what I call a "dry break") to the fuel pump. 

The fuel pump may have a screen to act as a fuel filter. It has a membrane that operates on crankcase pressure. the membrane pushes outward on the downward stroke of the piston and inward on the upward stroke, creating a pumping effect as the motor runs. It then leaves the pump going to the carb. 

The carb gets the fuel into its float bowl chamber and as it fills the float lifts and causes the float valve to close which in turn makes the piming bulb get hard. 

As you start motor, crankcase vacuum pulls a little bit of fuel into the intake system and goes into the crankcase where through a series of leaf valves keeps it there. On the upward stroke it is sucks it into the piston chamber where it is burned.

OK. If you pump the primer bulb it should pump fuel all the way to the carb. If not something is wrong between the tank and the carb.

You said the pump was bad? If there is a hole in the membrane it can pump fuel into the crankcase causing it to get the wrong air/fuel mixture. If the bulb does not get hard and you can find no external leaks it may be pumping fuel into the crankcase. That can flood the motor with too much fuel. You may also have a weak pump if it is a pinhole. It may be pumping air through the hole in the membrane causing air to be fed into the carb also, causing the wrong air/fuel mix again. A pinhole may be small enough the crankcase pressure can escape through it but fuel can not get through it.


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

KMixson Thank you for the detailed reply, it all starting to make more sense now...

It is hard to pin point what is the real issue in this case because there is so much involve...

The easiest thing is to start replacing parts from the gas tank all the way up to the carb...

I think the thank is good.

Today I will replace all the valve fittings on the tank and the hand pump.

I will re-adjust all the joints to make sure there are no leaks.

I will check the compression on the engine, what is the best tool to do this, where to get it...

Hopefully it will run after all the hoses and valves have been replaced.

If the motor is not runing by Wednesday, then I will place an order for pump/carb rebuilt kits.


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## Andy (Oct 13, 2008)

SVNET said:


> I will check the compression on the engine, what is the best tool to do this, where to get it...



You need a compression tester for this.
I've borrowed tools from my local NAPA I guess it pays to be good friends with people at a parts store, and the local Autozone here has loan a tool, you make a deposit, use the tool, take it back they give you back the deposit.


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## Captain Ahab (Oct 13, 2008)

Do not worry about compression testing the engine until you get you fuel problems squared away - if the engine then runs fine and has power doing a compression test will just make you nuts. 

I had an older Johnson that ran like a champ, lots of power - the compression test always came back showing one cylinder a little off. Always worried about it but never fixed the problem - boat ran great for about 10 years and I sold it - it is still running great 25 years later


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

Called sherwood at the link given above:

https://www.discount-marine-parts.com

$35 carb kit, $10 Fuel Pump Kit, $50 and I should get it by Friday.

I will try to just deal with the fuel pump first before I get involve with the carb.

Even if I don't need the carb kit, it will be good to have it on hand for the future...


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## Zum (Oct 13, 2008)

I might be your fuel pump.
But like stated in alot of previous posts,check the little things first;lines, the ball,other fuel lines like from the fuel pump,any filters,sometimes there even is one in the fuel tank itself.
Just talking from experience,I bought a new fuel pump($70),only later to find a small little crack in a fuel line after the fuel pump.Only affected the motor a full throttle.


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## SVNET (Oct 13, 2008)

Hello,

Well, I had David here with me today messing with the outboard motor... No LUCK.

I replaced everything before the fuel pump, minimal connections, and all connections have clamps, everything is solid.

We took out the fuel pump again, cleaned it well and put it back together.

David realized the system can not be prime properly with the hand pump while connected to the fuel pump.

Then we disconnected the hose to the fuel pump and we were able to prime the hose correctly.

When connected to the fuel pump, the hand pump will suck a little gas and then it will go back in the tank...

David advised that the pump membrane does look a little too stiff... Lucky a new kit will be in the mail tomorrow.

Today we were able to run the motor for about 3min straight but it took a massive initial prime...

Regards...


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## SVNET (Oct 14, 2008)

Hello all,

I got good news, tons of new questions and a VIDEO...!

Today, a light bulb turn on inside my head and I decided to invert the hoses to the fuel pump...

Guess what, it worked...! The pump doesn't have any markings so I am not sure what is the
inlet/outlet, but when I inverted from the way the previous owner had it, it seems to work fine...

I primed it with the hand pump and the motor started with the first pull and kept running steady...

Issues that I encounter...

Issue One:

The hand pump won't pull gas out of the tank and when I squeeze it, it stays squeezed, it doesn't fill back up again.

I even disconnected the pump the tank/pump from the motor and just tried to prime it to see if I could get gas out of
the tank and to spill on the other side of the pump...

Is there a trick to get this hand pump to work, the valve and connected attached to the thank are brand new.
The hand pump is brand new, clear hose so that I see the action, but nothing is happening...

Issue Two:

The motor will run good and rev all the way up, but it won't idle at its lowest speed, the shifting speed, it dies.

Seems like the previous owner messed with the carburetor settings, how do I fix that...

I also discovered, that when the choke was closed, it will kill the engine, when it was partially open, it will start the engine, but it will not run at its maximum. Then when I open the choke all the way up, it will rev really powerful, but it go slow down on the rev with the choke open, it will die... Seems like the it could handle more slower rev with less air. Does that mean it has to much air with the current carb setting ?

Need HELP:

1. How to figure out the whole hand pump thing so that I can get some gas out of the gas tank.
2. How to tune up the carb settings so that I can make it idle at shifting speed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCcwPi_ONoE

[youtube]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/dCcwPi_ONoE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/dCcwPi_ONoE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


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## SVNET (Oct 15, 2008)

Well,

A 2AM search on prime bulbs yield a great article on the mater, and after doing the reading, it all leads to air leaks in the system, fuel pump issues and possible a thank with a bad connecting valve...

https://continuouswave.com/whaler/reference/primer.html

I recommend reading it...

A Primer on Primers
Proper Installation of Primer Bulbs in Fuel Lines

This article discusses the proper installation and operation of the primer bulb in fuel lines used with outboard motors.
Purpose of the Primer

Unlike your automobile engine, which typically has an electrical fuel pump located in the fuel tank itself that delivers fuel under pressure to the engine, most outboard motors have only a simple diaphragm fuel pump that operates from engine vacuum. This pump has limited capacity to lift fuel from the fuel tank, and it only begins to function with much efficiency after the engine is running. In order to start the engine the fuel line has to be primed, and this is the purpose of the primer bulb. If its fuel line is not primed even an engine that is in perfect tune will will require a great deal of cranking to start. Rather than wearing down the battery to prime the fuel line, a small primer bulb pump is almost universally provided.

The primer bulb would seem like a simple device that does not require a great deal of explanation, but there are several details of its installation and use that may be overlooked.
Construction

Almost all primer bulbs consist of a flexible rubber bladder or bulb with inlet and outlet connectors. One-way check valves are located on the inlet and outlet side of the primer bulb. A slight spring pressure keeps the check valves closed, but not enough pressure to prevent the engine fuel pump from drawing fuel past it once the engine is running. Thus fuel can flow easily through the primer bulb in only one direction. Primer bulbs are almost universally marked with an arrow or some other identifier to indicate the direction of fuel flow through them. The inlet and outlet fittings typically contain a hose barb and these are generally available in three sizes to fit commonly used fuel lines. (Lower horsepower installations use 1/4-inch or 5/16-inch ID fuel lines; higher horsepower engines require 3/8-inch ID fuel lines. Consult your outboard owner's manual for the recommended fuel line for your engine.) Use a primer bulb whose connections are sized to match your fuel lines.

When the primer bulb is squeezed, the pressure created closes the inlet valve and opens the outlet valve, allowing fuel in the bulb to flow toward the engine. When the bulb is released, the suction created closes the outlet valve and opens the inlet valve, drawing fuel from the tank into the bulb. Repeated squeezing causes fuel to be lifted from the tank and pumped to the engine, until the fuel line is filled and the bulb becomes firm.

When the engine is running its fuel pump produces a suction that draws fuel past the check valves. The valves are designed so that even the modest pressure of the engine fuel pump will draw fuel past them. At idle speeds some engine fuel pumps may produce marginal pressure and may not draw fuel past the check valves. This can lead to stalling and other problems. OEM brands of primer bulbs have been designed to work with the fuel pumps in their engines, and their use is highly recommended over after-market products. Recently Mercury Marine came out with an improved primer bulb and is recommending it for all their engines. It can be identified by the yellow plastic line visible where the fittings join the rubber bulb.

Another important consideration is the flexibility of the rubber components. In the past decade it has become very common for gasoline fuels to be blended with alcohol (often for so-called environmental reasons). Unfortunately, alcohol tends to attack rubber and to reduce its flexibility. Any rubber components in the fuel system must now be made from alcohol-resistant rubber compounds. Older rubber hoses, primer bulbs, gaskets, etc., should be replaced.
Installation

The primer bulb is typically installed in the flexible rubber fuel hose feeding the engine. The fuel hoses are pressed onto the inlet and outlet fittings and retained with clamps. It goes without saying the engine fuel system must be leak proof, but it is also necessary that it be air-tight as well. Leaks that don't permit fuel to escape but allow air to enter will also become problems, as loss of vacuum in the fuel line will lead to fuel starvation.

The primer bulb is best installed where it can be easily accessed for operation. In most pre-rigged boats being delivered these days, the primer bulb is seen located within 12-18 inches of the engine. This is especially common on boats that have internal fuel tanks. Boats with on-deck fuel tanks may have the primer bulb located at the tank end of the fuel line. Of course, the primer bulb must be installed in the fuel line with the fuel flow direction arrow oriented properly, pointing toward the engine.

The primer bulb is generally placed close to the engine, and usually downstream of any fuel filters or water-separtors. Many new engines are delivered without a fuel disconnect fitting, and instead just provide a short stub of fuel line from the engine cowling. This makes a natural place to connect a primer bulb.
Orientation

It is also advantageous if the primer bulb can be position in such a way that during priming it can be oriented vertically, with the direction arrow pointing skywards. This will allow gravity and the weight of the fuel inside the primer bulb to help with the operation of the one-way valves. If the primer bulb is oriented with the flow arrow pointing downward, gravity and the weight of the fuel in the line above the inlet check valve may spoil its operation, and the primer will not work properly.

This subtle but important point—orienting the primer bulb skyward—is often overlooked in many installation, but it really helps the primer bulb to do its job. This trick was shown to me by an experienced Mercury outboard mechanic, after I complained that the new primer bulbs he had installed did not work well. The difference in results is amazing, and just by changing the orientation of the primer to vertical, its operation is much improved. In just a few squeezes it should be possible to fill the bulb with fuel.

Operation

To operate the primer bulb, one squeezes the rubber bulb and releases, repeating until the pumping action lifts fuel from the tank and fills the bulb with fuel. As the bulb fills its resistance to squeezing changes, and the firmness of the bulb signals the operator when the primer has done its job and primed the fuel line.

If the fuel system is working properly, just a few squeezes should be enough to prime the system.
Primer Bulb As Diagnostic Tool

The primer bulb is also a diagnostic tool that will tell you a number of things about your fuel system.
Engine Stalling or Running Roughly at Speed

If your engine begins to stall or run roughly several minutes after starting and when running at higher speeds, use the primer bulb to force fuel to the engine. If this restores the engine to smooth running, you have a fuel supply problem. There may be a restriction in the fuel line, or your engine fuel pump could be defective. If this happens even at idle speeds, the primer bulb may not be working properly.
Primer Hard to Prime

If the fuel line is difficult to prime, you likely have an air leak in the system. Check all fuel hose connections. You could also have a defective primer bulb, or not be orientating the primer bulb properly during priming. A likely place to investigate is the fuel disconnect on the engine. Be sure the connector is properly seated and is making an air-tight connection.
Collapsed Primer Bulb

If the primer bulb collapses after the engine has been running or stays collapsed while priming this indicates a fuel line restriction upstream from the primer bulb. A defective check valve in the primer bulb could also be the cause. The fuel line filter or the fuel tank pick up could be blocked. A blocked fuel tank vent could also cause this. A quick way to check the tank venting is to temporarily open the fuel tank filler fitting. For some reason the fuel tank vent line thru-hull fitting is a favorite spot for wasps to build mud nests.
Primer Bulb Never Gets Firm

If you can fill the bulb with fuel but it never gets firm, you probably have a fuel leak downstream of the primer bulb. This could be a stuck float valve on a carburetor, or a fuel leak in the engine fuel pump. Many engines use a diaphragm pump, and if the rubber diaphragm has a pin hole leak, gasoline will be forced past it into the engine crankcase. It should only take a few squeezes to get a primer bulb to become firm.

If you have a fuel disconnect downstream of the primer bulb, disconnect the fuel line from the engine and see if the primer can now be pumped to firmness. If so, your leak is in the engine.
Primer Bulb Gets Soft While Engine Is Running

Most primer bulbs will lose some firmness when the engine is running. This is normal. The bulb should not run dry of fuel or collapse in suction, but it will tend to lose some of the hard firmness it had when initially primed.


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## ben2go (Oct 15, 2008)

Just learned that I have been screwing up and keeping the primer bulb horizontal. #-o


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## dedawg1149 (Oct 15, 2008)

good post svnet =D>


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## SVNET (Oct 15, 2008)

I have not gotten the new pump kit yet, but I could not help it...

I had to mess with the outboard motor today again.

I fixed an air leak at the primer bulb and I can not prime the engine correctly, very happy...

The motor started on the first pull, very exciting to see it running so well...

In neutral the motor will rev high, but it won't idle for long before it dies... Disappointing...

Then I shift it into gear while engine off, then ran the engine in gear and it does act like is hungry
for something when I rev it in gear, maybe the whole issue of a weak pump...

BIG ISSUE

See the pictures below, why all that oil in the water, what is going on ? Is that normal ?


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## Andy (Oct 15, 2008)

I can't see the pictures for some reason, but that can be from the gas/exhaust, or a lower unit seal leaking.


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## ben2go (Oct 15, 2008)

That appears to be a bad prop shaft seal or lower unit gasket.There should be a screw or plug with FILL stamped next to it.Take it out and use a flash light to see if there is any gear oil in it.If there is no oil that is where it came from.I have never seen a motor pass that much oil through the exhaust unless there was to much oil added to the gas.If there is to much oil in the gas, that could be the reason the motor won't run correctly.


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## dedawg1149 (Oct 15, 2008)

ben2go said:


> That appears to be a bad prop shaft seal or lower unit gasket.There should be a screw or plug with FILL stamped next to it.Take it out and use a flash light to see if there is any gear oil in it.If there is no oil that is where it came from.I have never seen a motor pass that much oil through the exhaust unless there was to much oil added to the gas.If there is to much oil in the gas, that could be the reason the motor won't run correctly.


 i agree with the prop shaft seal or lower unit gasket


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## SVNET (Oct 15, 2008)

Well,

I mixed one gal of fresh gas with a 50:1 ratio, I assumed that was the correct ratio... Next time I will go 40:1

If there is anything else wrong with this motor I will just accept that I got screwed, accept my loss, trash the dam thing and move one with a different hobby, I am getting exhausted, all my time and money is going to this boat while I am disregarding other important members and factors in my life. I can't even remember when was the last time I caught a fish, and that is to be the main drive of this whole ordeal...

I read some where in an article that buying a boat is like it was buying a horse from a friend in the old days.

I promised my wife a nice boat ride on the river and everyday seems like I am more farther from delivering it...

I am done.


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## Andy (Oct 15, 2008)

SVNET said:


> I am done.



RELAX SVNET. Take a couple days away from the outboard motor. Put the trolling motor and paddles/oars on the boat, take the wife and kids out catch some fish, Then you'll get in the mood to work on it again. Remember, you are working on a 30+? year old motor. And I'm almost certain that the correct mix is 50-1.


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## dedawg1149 (Oct 15, 2008)

man don't give up you did give a decent price for the boat, you didn't know all that was wrong with boat because you really don't know you need to take the motor to a shop and let them fix it that would let you not worry about it .without you knowing what you are doing is just building up your frustration.but if you get the motor fixed you will know what you got and than you can enjoy it


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## ben2go (Oct 16, 2008)

Don't give up.You're to far into it to scrap it.I have 5 cars,4 motorcycles,2 houses,1 boat,1 outboard,and 1 trolling motor that I have entirely to much time and money wrapped up in.I don't give up just take a break for a day or two and then go back to work.A boat is not an investment,just a pain in the @$$ hobby.


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## SVNET (Oct 16, 2008)

Where would I be able to get a service manual for this motor... 225.587500 Gamefisher 1988.


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## Waterwings (Oct 16, 2008)

> ...A boat is not an investment,just a pain in the @$$ hobby.




Yep, that hole in the water we throw money into, lol.  


SVNET,

bassboy may have a link or address for motor manuals.


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## SVNET (Oct 16, 2008)

Well,

I called Sherwood at the online place that I order the fuel pump kit from.

I asked him about the oil in the water and described the situation to him.

He asked a few questions, what engine, the amount of HP and what brand oil I am mixing...

He said there is nothing wrong with the outboard, but to get Mercury outboard oil and fresh gas.

He said that is just un-burned oil coming out of the exhaust and it will eventually clean out.

I guess I won't run the motor again until I get fresh gas mix with good oil.

What do you guys think about that response ?


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## dedawg1149 (Oct 16, 2008)

i might be wrong but that is to much oil for it to be unburnt oil look on your lower unit there should de a screw that says fill here take it out and look at the oil to see if it looks milky like it has water in it


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## ben2go (Oct 16, 2008)

dedawg1149 said:


> i might be wrong but that is to much oil for it to be unburnt oil look on your lower unit there should de a screw that says fill here take it out and look at the oil to see if it looks milky like it has water in it




I agree.Usually dark colored oil is from the lower unit.Oil through the exhaust usually has a tint the same color as the unburnt oil.At least that is the way my Gamefisher does.Maybe different on other motors.


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## SVNET (Oct 17, 2008)

Got Mercury branded oil and mixed correctly this time, and it is running not as smokey and not spiting oil as before...

The water in the bucket does get oily but that is about it... Who knows...

I cleaned the carb, the float only has a fix level so it can not be adjusted but it seems to be working fine.

The pump kit did not get here today, I ordered on Monday, it should had been here by now but what ever...

Started the engine, and it runs a little better, but still won't idle.

The good news is that now, when in gear, I can rev it all the way up and it won't die, so the gas supply seems to be good.

Starting it is not reliable, sometimes it starts right away, other times I have to pull the cord 5 times before it gets going...

Everyone in town is charging $90+ / HR just to look at it, not fix it.

What next ?


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