# 1989 johnson 25 hp wont come off idle.....



## djchris (Mar 23, 2012)

Well i just got my outboard back from the mechanic and 6 weeks and 650 dollars later it's still running like crap....

The mechanic rebuilt the carb, replaced spark plugs and put new impellor in....
Now the engine will idle sorta but when i try to give it any throttle it bogs than dies. most i can give is slightly off idle...
Thought the tank or hose was bad so i replaced....still the same outcome....primer bulb is not going soft. have not pulled the plugs to look to see if they are wet or dry....he showed me the engine running in a tank and it didn't seem to have any problems.....
the only thing i didnt replace was the fuel fitting on the tank.....do these things go bad? i took it off and can blow threw it just fine with the needle pushed in.....

Any ideas?


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## Lil' Blue Rude (Mar 23, 2012)

First off I'd be all over that mechanic. $650 and he didn't even fix it. Honestly it doesn't take 2 hours to go through the carb change plugs and a waterpump. 
Did you rebuild the fuel pump? Did you check compresion?


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## djchris (Mar 24, 2012)

I asked him to do all that.. So i am assuming he checked compression...he did not rebuild the pump he told me that on my motor the pumps rarely need any attention...either bad or not.....i saw the thing run in the test tank so i don't understand....i am taking it back to him this morning and hopefully it's just a minor adjustment or something simple......wish me luck!


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## roadkill636 (Mar 27, 2012)

dont pay untill you get a print out of each and every thing that was done to the motor. for 650 there had to be some major work done to it.


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## Pappy (Mar 27, 2012)

Whoa, Guys! The mechanic will charge flat rate times based on his going labor rate for one....plus parts at full retail vs what they cost. If he can do the job faster he will still charge flat rate and if he gets hung up then he should still only charge flat rate unless the extra time was legitimate. That is a benefit of experience! Dont know the details and havent seen the work ticket so we really dont know what the charges were for. 
Second, if the engine ran in the test tank on a shop fuel tank then maybe there is an issue with the boat's fuel tank.
The engine sounds like it is running a little lean and the first thing I would do is richen the idle mixture a little to compensate for the depth that the engine is running on the boat vs the static water line in the test tank and see if that cures the problem.


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## djchris (Mar 27, 2012)

wasn't the tank tried a differant one and same results......i should say it was 550 cause i had him order me some new cables that were a 100 dollars......260 was for the parts and the rest in labor.....


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## Johny25 (Mar 28, 2012)

First off I would be pissed off if the mechanic does not fix it without charging anymore money. Second I would start checking things I can visually see like your link n sync. You have 2 marks on your throttle cam, the cam follower should be dead center of these two pickup marks when the carburetor starts to open. If this is not correct then you motor will stall on acceleration. It may even run in a barrel pretty good when it is out of sync but when you put a load on it in the water she will spit, sputter and die out on acceleration. You cannot simulate by running in a barrel unless you have a test wheel. 

There are other things to look at like your slow speed idle adjustment on the carburetor. You can get it close in a barrel before you go out but fine tune on the water. Start motor and get it to operating temp. Get it down to lowest idle point. Turn it clockwise until it bottoms out (don't turn it to hard, lightly is good) then back it out 1 and 1/2 turns is a good start point. Find where the motor will idle at highest RPM, giving 30 seconds in between each 1/4 turn increment (either clockwise or counter clockwise, which ever way gets it to highest RPM) to allow the motor to adjust to the change. When you find this high idle spot then back it off counter clockwise 1/8 to 1/4 turn. Fine tune it on the water in forward gear at low idle.

There are several other things you could check depending on how much work you want to do by yourself but I would be asking the mechanic to fix this for the $550 you already have in it!


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## djchris (Mar 28, 2012)

I am really irritated over this whole situation! I am a automotive mechanic and i know shit happens and sometimes we are wrong....That being said this is what irritates me....

1. He told me it would be a couple weeks....so im think 2 or 3 weeks.....it took 6 weeks for me to get my boat back
2. The bill was 150 dollars more than what he quoted me....not too upset about that since he called me and told me there were other problems.
3. I pick the engine up and try to use it and it runs worse than it did before he touched it!
4. He told me he was going to take a look at it and possibly have it corrected this last tuesday...it's wednesday now and he hasnt been open the last two days!

This guy was referred to me by 5 or 6 people saying he did great work and blah blah blah.....I know alot of people will say the same thing about auto mechanic but i have yet to have a good experience from taking a engine to a marine mechanic! Whats the deal?

I hope this turns out well cause im already out 550 bucks and still no boat. I should have just done it myself and than that way i only had me to blame...but owell we live we learn!


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## cajuncook1 (Mar 30, 2012)

I think Pappy is right that you need to cool down at bit and review the bill with mechanic and list of parts ordered and used, I know your a very frustrated.

If he just change the spark plugs, carb kit and impeller then these are approximate prices of BPR parts from the manufacturer.

0396701
0396701 - CARB KIT,FLOAT IN
OEM Part About Johnson Evinrude OMC * $23.49 * 


SP PLG QL77JC4 0502180 0502180
0502180 - SP PLG QL77JC4
OEM Part About Johnson Evinrude OMC *$5.30 *


0395289 - IMPELLER
OEM Part About Johnson Evinrude OMC *$19.49 *

* or if he order the total water pump repair kit then*

0393630
0393630 - Water Pump Kit
OEM Part About Johnson Evinrude OMC * $57.49 *




So, if these are the only parts charges, then the parts cost should not be over* $100.00*


You need to address and have him show you the flat rate charges for carburetor repair, water pump repair/Placement and general checks.

Yes, he should make good on his work, especially if runs worse than before.

** If he check compression then ask him what the values where?

** Ask him to verify spark on both cylinder in front of you?

** Definitely ask for all the receipts for all the products he purchased. (You can go on line and verify price and correct order numbers.

Unfortunately, I only takes one dishonest person spoil the show. 

***Ask if he if is a certified Johnson/Evinrude mechanic!!** If not, he may not be familiar with your motor. A certified mechanic for your motor should always be professional and will make good on their work. They should not have any problem reviewing an itemized bill and reviewing flat rate charges for certain types of jobs. 

They have an industry standard job estimate time frame and charge for certain types of procedures.

ex minor tune up
major tune up etc etc etc

Sorry, buddy, I came across dealing with dishonest mechanic (*NOT saying yours is*) a couple of years ago. Now I do most of my own work. ( Got a good service manual for my motor and learned!) Found an old parts motor to learn on and rebuilt it. Cost me less than $250 (motor, parts, and my time)

Now, I have an addiction, I collect and restore antique and vintage outboard for a hobby!!! Thanks to the support and help of the good people from AOMCI !


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## cajuncook1 (Mar 30, 2012)

Oh, here is a link to a part diagram for your motor and the cost of parts from the manufacturer as well as aftermarket sellers for parts.

You just have select your motor's model number.

https://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1989&hp=25


I hope you get things resolved and back on the water soon. [-o<


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## djchris (Apr 1, 2012)

Im not upset with the price....Im upset that it's not fixed! Still don't have my boat back since his shop was closed all last week! When i took it back to him last saturday he re checked spark and compression....compression was 130 or so on both cylinders......spark was good....what he did was rebuild the carb, replaced impeller and housing and replaced the spark plugs.....i have the reciept and nothing seemed too far out of reach as far as price.....he had some problems with the lower unit oil saying it was real thick and didn't know what was in there but had to heat it up to get it to drain out......which i believe cause when i bought the motor last year the first thing i did was change the lower unit oil and it was nasty......i just hope he is open next week and can get my engine running right...i need my boat!


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## Johny25 (Apr 1, 2012)

Well your motor has great compression then at least : ). Ok well if he rebuilt the carb (correctly) then he had to of pulled the slow speed idle screw out to replace the packing. Now did he run it in a barrel to get the idle speed adjustment close? And did he explain to you that you would have to fine tune it on the water while in gear at low idle? 

I bought an 88' 25hp from a local marine mechanic (owner to boot!) who explained to me that he rebuilt the carb on the motor. Well It didn't look rebuilt to me so when I got home I pulled it apart and guess what lol..... It looked like he may have cleaned it, and put a new float in possibly?! Didn't remove the welch plugs, replace float needle, packing on slow speed idle screw, gaskets....etc. So I have learned that some mechanics will say "rebuilt" when all they did was disassemble and "clean". 

If you are a mechanic or have a backround in mechanics you would have no problem doing all this by yourself djchris trust me. And you will never have an issue like this again : ). I was reluctant the first time I tore into a 2 stroke outboard some years ago but I am so glad I did. I would rather work on my outboard now than my 350 chevy now lol


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## djchris (Apr 1, 2012)

I know i could have done it myself....I have dirt bikes and quads as well that are two stroke and have rebuilt, cleaned, repaired the carbs on those......im just BUSY all the time and have that mechanic syndrome where i work on cars all day long at work i don't wanna work on my own stuff! lol basicly im LAZY!

He did explain about the idle screw....


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## djchris (Apr 3, 2012)

Well i got word from the shop that has my motor....and it's not good. He says either the crankcase seal or the seal below the fly wheel is bad....said if he replaces one he has to do the other. anyways he said it's pulling in air and driving the engine lean causeing the problems that im having......than he said that had i taken him the motor on the boat than he would have found it because you can duplicate that in the test tank.....which i say it running in the test tank and it sounded and seemed like it was running great........so another 600 dollars and i will have a good running outboard again.....


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## Pappy (Apr 4, 2012)

Believe there is a special tool that can remove the upper crank seal with the crankcase halves still together. That would save a ton of money even if you have to purchase the special tool. 
Am a big believer in the use of special tools wherever possible. However, I just replaced the upper crank seal in a 1957 35hp Johnson recently using a sharp punch, grease, drill bit, and two sheet metal screws. 
I used the pin punch to start a small hole or at least a dimple in the metal casing of the seal. Filled the area with grease and drilled the hole needed for the screws. Placed the screws 180 degrees apart from one another and lifted the seal out of the crankcase pretty easily using leverage on the screws from opposite sides of the crankcase. Seal replacement was straightforward and easy. Total start to finish took around two hours taking my time to do it corectly. 
For the naysayers (who have never tried this) the metal removed moves upward naturally as the bit cuts and gets trapped in the grease. Some grease was also forced down into the hole placed by the pin punch. 
By far was not the first one to do this. Read about it ( www.aomci.org ) before I tried it and it works!


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