# grease seal question



## WhiteMoose (Apr 13, 2010)

Here is my old seal which was leaking grease (below), and a new one I picked up at the farm&fleet tonight (top). Is it OK that they are two different widths?


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## KMixson (Apr 13, 2010)

It should not matter that they are different widths. Just make sure you install it as square as you can to the shaft.


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 13, 2010)

Thanks KMixson. Got it put back together and seems to be fine. 
One more question- I know everything says not to mix types of grease, but I have 2 cans of marine grease that are the same brand, type, and everything, except one is blue and one is tan. Is it OK to mix these? I dont see a single difference in the labels.


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## KMixson (Apr 14, 2010)

The grease should be OK to mix also. If it is the same grade it is OK to mix. You can even mix different brands of the same grade with no problem. It is just like motor oil, you can add a different brand to your engine as long as it is the same grade.


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 19, 2010)

After a 60 mile trip yesterday with the boat, I inspected the rear seals and they are still leaking grease! I know it is the new grease because it is blue. 
-The new seals I put in last week seemed to fit tight, so I know they wern't the wrong diameter. 
-I have new bearing buddies installed and keep them filled per their instructions (untill you can push in and tilt the blue ring)
-I did the same thing to the other side and it is fine.
What is the cuplrit and how do I fix it? I am getting sick of repacking my bearings every other week.


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## Troutman3000 (Apr 19, 2010)

Mine are leaking a little grease too, I didnt know that was the problem.


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## russ010 (Apr 19, 2010)

is it leaking out of the front of the wheel or the back of the wheel?

sounds like it might be time for a new hub...


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 19, 2010)

Its leaking out of the rear seal. My suspicion is that there is a ding or something in the axel right where the seal sits, but I wouldn't think that this much grease would be able to leak out. The entire inside of the wheel is splattered with grease.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Apr 19, 2010)

How deep are you driving the seal in the hub? If you set it in too deep the seal won't be riding on the correct part of the spindle. 
What are the part numbers of the Seals?


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## russ010 (Apr 19, 2010)

WhiteMoose said:


> Its leaking out of the rear seal. My suspicion is that there is a ding or something in the axel right where the seal sits, but I wouldn't think that this much grease would be able to leak out. The entire inside of the wheel is splattered with grease.



if you put a new seal in and it didn't work... I would go ahead and replace the hub. they aren't that expensive. I replaced both of mine for $80 - and that was with the seals and bearings already in it.


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## Troutman3000 (Apr 19, 2010)

russ010 said:


> WhiteMoose said:
> 
> 
> > Its leaking out of the rear seal. My suspicion is that there is a ding or something in the axel right where the seal sits, but I wouldn't think that this much grease would be able to leak out. The entire inside of the wheel is splattered with grease.
> ...




Where can you get parts for these? Just pull it off and take it to an auto parts store?


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## russ010 (Apr 19, 2010)

This is where I got mine...(https://trailerpartsdepot.com/items.asp?Cc=HUB&Bc= and go to hub assemblies) If you know the size of your bearing, you can pretty much line them up. Most hubs on our trailers are 1", but there are a few 1-1/16"... Match the size of the hub with the bolt pattern already on your trailer and you're all set. You can also look to see what the bearing numbers are (if you can see them when you pull them out) and match up the hub size by those.


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 19, 2010)

lckstckn2smknbrls said:


> How deep are you driving the seal in the hub? If you set it in too deep the seal won't be riding on the correct part of the hub.
> What are the part numbers of the Seals?



That could be it. I drove them down as deep as I can get them. I thought that the rear seal had to be in as far as it could go to hold the bearing in place against the race? 
There are no numbers that I could see on the seals, I just got them for whatever diameter the old ones were, 1-1/4" I think.


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## Quackrstackr (Apr 19, 2010)

I can't see your picture because of a firewall but different "widths" could be a problem.

You just drive the seal in until it flushes with the hub. That should put your lip seal exactly where it needs to be on the spindle. If it is a different width and it is not seated in the correct position, you could be missing the sealing land on the spindle completely.

If it isn't driven in square, it will leak also.


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## KMixson (Apr 19, 2010)

WhiteMoose said:


> That could be it. I drove them down as deep as I can get them. I thought that the rear seal had to be in as far as it could go to hold the bearing in place against the race?



I install seals until the edge is flush with the rim of the hub. They should not touch the bearing. You can take some fine sandpaper and polish the spindle where the seal rides also. That may help. I know some types of these bearing buddies put a little too much pressure on old seals and worn spindles to the point where they will not hold the grease in them.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Apr 19, 2010)

I get the seals lined up with the bore then place apiece of 2x4 over the seal and tap it in flush with the hub.


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 19, 2010)

OK, I'm gonna to try it one more time, this time being sure to keep the seal flush and lightly sand smooth the axel. 
At this rate, I should be buying bearing grease by the 55 gallon drum.


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## Troutman3000 (Apr 19, 2010)

WhiteMoose said:


> OK, I'm gonna to try it one more time, this time being sure to keep the seal flush and lightly sand smooth the axel.
> At this rate, I should be buying bearing grease by the 55 gallon drum.




How hard was it to change the hubs and seals?

Mine is leaking a little.


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 19, 2010)

I pretty much followed this video. (except for the part where he gets the seal flush with the hub  )
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsCH1d6R7J0&feature=player_embedded

Its easy, but very messy. Takes maybe an hour per wheel. I've heard that you should repack your bearings w/ grease every year. The only special tool you need is a race driver, and that is only if you have to replace your bearings. Our auto parts store lets you "buy" their race driver hammer (about $75) and return it for a refund when your done using it. If your bearings are still OK, all you have to buy is new seals and grease.


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## Quackrstackr (Apr 19, 2010)

Jack up the axle, pull your bearing buddy or dust cap, pull the cotter pin and remove the castle nut and thrust washer (if so equipped) then pull off the hub. Pull the old seal out and drive in another with the 2x4 method mentioned above.

Be sure to pack your hub full of grease and inspect everything before you put it back together.


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## Troutman3000 (Apr 19, 2010)

Quackrstackr said:


> Jack up the axle, pull your bearing buddy or dust cap, pull the cotter pin and remove the castle nut and thrust washer (if so equipped) then pull off the hub. Pull the old seal out and drive in another with the 2x4 method mentioned above.
> 
> Be sure to pack your hub full of grease and inspect everything before you put it back together.




That easy huh? How do you know if your hub is busted?


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## Quackrstackr (Apr 19, 2010)

Look for cracks? They should be easy to see if you wipe the grease off with a rag where you think it may be cracked.

The only busted hubs that I have ever seen were catastrophic failures from extreme impact (and one on my current trailer after they strapped it down with too much side load when they put it on the hauler to bring it to the dealership).

I would be more concerned about the bearings needing replacement than a cracked hub.


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## Troutman3000 (Apr 19, 2010)

Quackrstackr said:


> Look for cracks? They should be easy to see if you wipe the grease off with a rag where you think it may be cracked.
> 
> The only busted hubs that I have ever seen were catastrophic failures from extreme impact (and one on my current trailer after they strapped it down with too much side load when they put it on the hauler to bring it to the dealership).
> 
> I would be more concerned about the bearings needing replacement than a cracked hub.



How do you know if the bearings need replacement. I want to do it all at once if I can.


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## russ010 (Apr 19, 2010)

you pretty much have to take them out to know for sure to see if the bearings are bad...

look for pits (literally small pits) on the bearings. If you look through the thread of my Xpress, you can see the pictures I had of my bearings and the replacement process I did -- edit* yep, page 2 is where I have the bearings out - and they literally fell out when I got them off the spindle. If you look at each of the bearings, you'll see how they are all scratched up and pitted.


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## WhiteMoose (Apr 19, 2010)

This thread also has a picture of bad bearings. 
https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10092&start=10


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## Troutman3000 (Apr 20, 2010)

Thanks Guys....Seems easy enough


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## longjohn119 (Apr 20, 2010)

A buddy of mine who is a certified mechanic for fork lifts of all sizes told me you need to install the back seals **backwards** when using Bearing Buddies. Those seals are designed to keep water out NOT to keep the grease in so when you install the seals normally the internal pressure caused by the Bearing Buddies will blow out the seal. If you install the seal backwards then the internal pressure caused by the Bearing Buddies will actually make them seal better. To install them backwards I use a galvanized or black iron pipe coupling that the outer metal edge of the seal will just slip over, I think it was a 1 1/2" but I'm not sure because it's been awhile (And haven't gotten that far on my new boat and trailer) They use a similar aftermarket "autogrease" setup on some fork trucks and that's how they have to do it.

Also check the spindle where the seal is supposed to seat and inspect it for damage.

Also repack the bearing and put as much grease as you can get in by hand before you install and use the Bearing Buddy, otherwise the only way to get the air pocket out is to blow the back seal. Another trick is to pack it by hand, install the Bearing Buddy and drive the trailer around a bit to help spread the grease and get the air out, then add your grease to the Bearing Buddy as directed


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## Quackrstackr (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm sorry.. but your buddy is dead wrong. The purpose of the grease seal is to keep the grease inside your hub and to minimize water intrusion. Your seals will most likely withstand less pressure, not more, if installed backwards.

(I work in engineering for an automotive sealing company)

If you still don't believe me, go out and pump your bb's full of grease and see if they don't leak. Seals leak because people just keep pumping grease into them and overfill/overpressurize them. Once installed, if it ain't leakin'... there is no reason to keep adding grease (unless you just want to blow your seals).

High pressure inside your hub from overfill not only causes blown seals, it causes the seals to wear more rapidly, which will also cause them to eventually leak. Most grease seals can only stand about 2.5-3 psi before you will start seeing problems. If you have a high quality seal, you can actually jack the entire thing out of the hub from the internal pressure before it starts leaking at the bead.


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## KMixson (Apr 20, 2010)

There is a spring on the inside of the seal. If you install it backward the spring will be out in the elements and will not last long at all. If you bend the rubber part of the seal outward you will see the spring. It keeps pressure on the spindle.


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## WhiteMoose (May 19, 2010)

Finally got around to replacing the leaky seal and was sure to keep the new one flush with the hub. After a couple short trips, the grease appears to be staying where it should. Thanks guys.


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