# Sometimes it pays to be paranoid



## JL8Jeff (May 12, 2018)

We got a little more than an inch of rain overnight and I was paranoid about all the debris falling off the trees and getting in the boat could block the bilge pump or float switch. So early in the afternoon, I drove up to the dock to check on the boat. There was almost a foot of water in the boat :shock: and I didn't hear the pump trying to do anything. So I hopped in the boat (after removing my shoes and socks) and saw the float switch was not floating up. I reached around and found one of the wires for the float switch had blocked it from floating up. I moved the wires and secured them out of the way and helped bail with a bucket while the pump was running. We just had a couple more downpours tonight so I'm really glad I decided to check on it earlier. I almost talked myself out of it but the threat of more rain made me check on it. It's amazing how that gut feeling thing works.


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## richg99 (May 12, 2018)

Yep, float switches have to be tended and can cause all sorts of issues. 

At the suggestion of Dale H on this site, I bought an integral switch. Nothing to be blocked that is outside of the switch itself. 

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KOKJTS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## JL8Jeff (May 13, 2018)

I'm 99% sure it was my fault the wires moved and blocked the float switch. I was cleaning out debris on Friday when I went fishing. I've had float switch and pump problems before with other boats so there is no guarantee everything is going to work fine. The dock is at my cousin's house so it's not like a marina or anything. It looks like we're in for a rainy week so I'll probably be going back and forth a few times to check on it.


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## Crazyboat (May 13, 2018)

Amazing how 1" of rain will put 6"-12" in a boat, not sure how it all happens but yes it does. We had a 100 year rain once, got 9" in a couple of hours. My bilge was clogged with leaves (a very long story for another day) and with a self bailing deck I didn't think anything was in the bilge. I hit the pump and nothing came out so I figured all was well.

Took the boat out, she felt awkward and would not g et up on plane, took her back to the dock and went to the rear access hatch to look below, all the water from up front came rushing back and within a couple of seconds the stern was going under and water was rushing into the access hatch. I ran up front hoping my weight would level things out, but no luck.

Very lucky for me I had an airdock system, I jumped in pulled the airbags as far under the stern as I could and hit the inflate pump!

Water had reached the captains chair at deck level before the bags starting lifting her out of the salt. Very lucky for me the boat was new and the manufacturer paid to have her pulled and installed 2 new pumps. Seems the leaves got in during the build and clogged the pump. I was about 1" from losing a brand new F115 and 6" from losing a new boat.


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## JL8Jeff (May 18, 2018)

It turns out my cousin had a problem with his boat the same day. His pump/float switch wouldn't work by itself so he pumped it out manually and then took his boat out of the water until he can figure it out.


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## DaleH (May 18, 2018)

FWIW I help maintain a small fleet of about 20 or more skiffs up to 14' long (dock limit), where the skiffs are out on the docks 24/7 from May thru the end of October. We haven't had a skiff swamp or sink (we'll get torrential rains during Summer micro-burst storms :shock: ) since we switched out all pumps to Johnson brand or Marpac, which is another brand name that Johnson pumps are sold under.

Most interestingly, those skiffs that have swamped before always had Rules pumps in them ... I guess _Rule no longer 'rules'_. My own boats have Johnson pumps in them - and I won't use any other brand~!

These auto pumps use 'field effect technology' to sense the water and have ZERO moving parts, less the impeller of course - but no float switch to get fouled or clogged up! Nothing to fool with proper operation. Now in my brother's Grady White he had a Johnson brand washdown/livewall pump go for 14-years service, when only the pressure switch broke. He put in a new pressure switch ... and that pump still works going on 20-years now. 

The 600gph pumps are < $60 from here:

https://www.surplusunlimited.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=1&Product_Code=6993&Category_Code=1700-1-10


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## onthewater102 (May 18, 2018)

How deep does the water have to be in order for the pump to be able to draw it out? I still haven't torn the back half of my boat apart to fix my drainage issue but being a flat bottom it tends to build up a lot of water before it has enough for the pump to draw out unless I stand on the transom and press the pump switch. To have one that would come on automatically with an inch of water in the back would be great.


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## DaleH (May 18, 2018)

onthewater102 said:


> How deep does the water have to be in order for the pump to be able to draw it out?


*Excellent question! *

For the Johnson/Marpacs pumps, they won't cycle on until the height reaches about 2" on the sensor. My skiff is a deep-V, so I positioned it so it gets the most water out of the bilge, but clearly no pump can remove everything - less 2 options below.

Now adding a check valve in-line would empty more water out of the bilge, to prevent that last run of water in the hose to backfill into the bilge, but then you just added something into the discharge line that could potentially clog up and fail. 

However, Whale Pumps makes a small 'supersub 500' pump designed to go into confined areas and these will draw down to about 1/2" of standing water. These small pumps alone are $30 or less online. Not sure if they make an auto model, but it is the _"sensing of the water that is the issue here"_, in that the head or pickup point on the pump needs to be lower than the switch height. I did rig one up in a forward bilge area of a toona boat that I wanted as dry as possible and I set the switch height at 1", but luckily when cycled, the pump would draw down to about that last 1/2" deep of water, that in the V of the hull shape. I did add a check valve on this pump (4" from the pump), as it was only for that forward bilge portion ... that would drain down to the stern whilst on plane ... but the boat design left water in the forward bilge when at rest.

That boat had two 2200GPH pumps in the stern ... one pumping out each side, in case I hit something and the boat was heeled over; then I still had pumping capability. Offshore redundancy is critical, but I digress, as that's clearly not our needs here with tin boats ...


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## richg99 (May 18, 2018)

Hmmm....it happens that I have the same issue with my Marpac pump (bought due to Dale's earlier suggestion). It is mounted on a 3/4 inch block in the stern of my 16 ft G3. The water has to get pretty high before the pump switches on.

The stern of the craft is at a severe angle before she starts pumping. When I am around, I jump aboard and stand at the stern and manually run the pump. But, it is when we travel, leave for a day or two etc. that I worry. Of course, I can pull the boat out and leave it in the dry storage area with proper planning. That just creates more work if we decide to go away on a short notice. 

Sure wish there was a way to mount the pump dead on the bottom, without gluing it in permanently.

On my 1756 Lowe, kept in Texas, I added the Johnson no-float switch. 

Keep up the good suggestions, Dale H.


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## DaleH (May 18, 2018)

richg99 said:


> Sure wish there was a way to mount the pump dead on the bottom, without gluing it in permanently.


If it helps you Rich, mine is pop-riveted onto a piece of aluminum and then that piece is secured to the knee coming off the transom. That way my pump is absolutely mounted as low in the bilge as it can go.


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## richg99 (May 18, 2018)

Thanks, Dale. That might be an option. 

I was going to bring the boat home this weekend to do some odds and ends. As it happens, my van had a recall. I took it to the dealer yesterday. Three-hour job, according to the recall. FIVE-hour job according to the dealer. 

Since it was already 1:30 p.m. when I brought it in (their schedule, not mine) they sent me home with a loaner. THAT means, no hitch; no boat keys; no moving the boat; Bah Humbug.... Hope they get her done today.

I think I even have a piece of aluminum on the shelf. 
regards, rich


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## jethro (May 18, 2018)

richg99 said:


> Yep, float switches have to be tended and can cause all sorts of issues.
> 
> At the suggestion of Dale H on this site, I bought an integral switch. Nothing to be blocked that is outside of the switch itself.
> 
> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KOKJTS/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1



That's the exact float switch I have, along with a Johnson Pump 750 GPH bilge pump. Works great.


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## eshaw (May 18, 2018)

onthewater102 said:


> How deep does the water have to be in order for the pump to be able to draw it out? I still haven't torn the back half of my boat apart to fix my drainage issue but being a flat bottom it tends to build up a lot of water before it has enough for the pump to draw out unless I stand on the transom and press the pump switch. To have one that would come on automatically with an inch of water in the back would be great.



I've just finished installing a 500gph pump and automatic float switch in mine. I took it to the lake to swamp it and see just how high the water has to get before the pump kicks on. I'm with you on this, I want something that will kick on a lot sooner than it is now. I've got it back by the transom as far as I can get it and it's just a 1/4 inch off the floor. I've been seriously thinking of taking the weight out of the actuator so it floats a lot higher in shallower water. They're pretty cheap so I may do a little experimenting and see what happens.


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## richg99 (May 18, 2018)

Dale suggested I lower my pump by putting it on a piece of aluminum. 

If that doesn't get it low enough, then I may add a second pump and Johnson switch. 
rich


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## JL8Jeff (May 19, 2018)

My boat is a tunnel hull so the low spot is not in the center. The boat leans to one side (the side with the cables running from the center console back to the motor) so the float and pump are mounted on that side. We have a house pump from the wash basin that pumps up and over to the outgoing sewer line and that pump had the pressure switch go bad last year. So there are lots of good options but nothing is 100% so you need to keep an eye on things. I may try one of those Marpac pumps if/when my pump or float switch goes bad. Looks like we could be getting another inch of rain today so I'll be checking on the boat later on. I also need to check the dock for logs getting jammed up under it, so it's not just water in the boat that makes me go check on things.


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