# Looking at new sonar



## Gramps50 (May 31, 2012)

Since getting the boat I have wanted a FF for the front, the one in the back isn't much help while fishing from the front of the boat which I do most of the time. I want to mount it on the TM.

I bought a Garmin Echo 200 because it came with the TM mount and I caught it on a 12 hour sale at Sears for a good price. Looked nice, tilt, swivel base. & quick disconnect. Mounted it all up and when I got a chance to use it the screen kept going black, seemed to be a heat problem because if I put it in the shade for awhile it would work again. Sent it back and decided to look at something else. Pretty much decided on Humminbird because from what I have read on the different forums their customer service is superb, as Lowerance is about non existent.

Pretty much have a $200-$250 limit on price. Was looking at the Humminbird 561 till I discovered that the Humminbird 570 had twice the vertical resolution for $50 more. The TM mount adds about another $20 to the cost but I'm not really counting that in the above limit. That's a small purchase I don't need a PO for.  

Anyone have any experience with these units and will the vertical resolution make that much difference? I fish mainly small rivers and small lakes that are off said rivers made my dredging sand and gravel. So I don't think I would ever be in water over maybe 50' unless the river is way up and then I probably wouldn't be in it anyway.

Any suggestions?


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## Gramps50 (Jun 1, 2012)

Went to the Tracker Boat Store to get some parts for my TM and was talking to salesperson there and they suggested the HBird 570 DI which is $299 but has a $20 rebate til June 26th or the Lowrance 5x DSI which is $249 The Lowrance has 480x480 resolution and is only DSI from what I can gather looking at comparisons. The HBird 640V x 320H and also has 2D sonar. The salesman was trying to convince me that the 480x480 was better the 640x320 but from what I can gather vertical resolution is more important that horizontal. 

Anyone have any experience with Down Imaging is it worth the extra money?


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## TNtroller (Jun 1, 2012)

Only experience I have with DI at this point is what I've read on different fishing forums. *IF* I were in your shoes, with having read what I have read (makes sense doesn't it) I would go with the HB DI unit as it has the 2d sonar with it. The Lowrance DSI does NOT have 2d sonar. DI will give you more detail on the structure below the boat, but fish show up as little white dots, not arches or fish symbols, just dots. The detail on the structure and bottom is great from what I've read, and have seen numerous pictures posted on web forums but I still have trouble interepreting the DI pictures. Alot of DI users have stated after a while they tire of the DI and use the 2d sonar more, but still use the DI for the detail at times, especially when on new territory/water. 

The HB DI unit has both DI and 2d so you've got it both ways. GL.


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## fender66 (Jun 1, 2012)

Gramps...you should come look at my HB units. I have DI and SI and love it. I use the DI much more than the SI though.

I totally recommend HB units and have had great luck with mine and with their customer service when I have a question or problem.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 1, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Gramps...you should come look at my HB units. I have DI and SI and love it. I use the DI much more than the SI though.
> 
> I totally recommend HB units and have had great luck with mine and with their customer service when I have a question or problem.



I'm gone all day tomorrow, what are you doing Sunday?


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## wihil (Jun 2, 2012)

I see a lot of noise on forums about a supposed lack of customer support from Lowrance, but I just don't see it. There's a lot of "I heard from a friend" or "I read about this" or "my monkey's second cousin's dog that insulted the Pope found a broken unit and"...

Fact is, I've always gotten through to Lowrance with no problems at all. A guy at work had his refurb, out of warranty HDS5 go out on him and Lowrance replaced it no charge, no fuss.

Humminbird makes a good product. So does Lowrance. Buy the one YOU want, not what some faceless "expert" on the web says you need.

AFA the 570DI vs the Mark 5x DSI, between the two I like the 570DI because it's got both Downscan and 2D sonar, but know that the 2D sonar is kind of a hybrid, it's not a real 83/200 with the corresponding cone angles of 60/20deg AND the 455/800 of true downscan. It has the 455/800 for downscan, but they half the 455KHz signal down to get a pseudo 200Khz signal, which makes for a narrower than average beam. That said, there's definately a time and place for both types of sonar - and if you're not used to reading a downscan image, having the ability to flip back to a traditional sonar view would be of great help in the learning process.

Graphically, it's a horse a piece - if you're fishing water over 50' deep, more vertical pixels would be great - but it doesn't sound like you fish that way. Both LCD screens are everything that an LCD screen would be - :? -

I say find a store (if possible) and play with both of them extensively - one of them will get your attention.

I know I had every intention of buying a Humminbird until I sat down and played with one for an afternoon, and on the water, and then did the same with a Lowrance. Bought my Lowrance as soon as I had the money ready, and couldn't be happier.

YMMV


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## fender66 (Jun 4, 2012)

Gramps50 said:


> fender66 said:
> 
> 
> > Gramps...you should come look at my HB units. I have DI and SI and love it. I use the DI much more than the SI though.
> ...



Sorry Gramps..I was gone all weekend fishing. I'm back now. Get home from work after 6:00.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 4, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Sorry Gramps..I was gone all weekend fishing. I'm back now. Get home from work after 6:00.



Then the 1st question is did you catch any fish?

On another forum a couple of the guys said that when they were looking at FF that the HB 570 DI didn't have a very good screen and that in it's case 2D was better. In a little while I'm going to BP to play with the displays.

I'll giver ya a holler this evening


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## Gramps50 (Jun 5, 2012)

Spent the morning and part of the afternoon at BP & Cabelia's looking at and playing with the demo units. As was stated on another forum by several people the screen on the HB 570 DI wasn't very clear, just had a fuzzy look to it. Also looked at the HB 581i DI which is still mono and the screen looked about the same as the 570 even though it was 640x640 the the 570 was 640x320.

The HB 596ci HD DI had a much better screen that was much clearer and easier to read. I also looked at the Lowrance Elite 5x DSI the screen on it wasn't bad but I don't think it was as good as the HB 596.

I like the idea that the HB's also have 2D even though it's not true dual beam as the viewing angles are different than a non Di unit & you can use both at the same time. With DI being a moving technology it will be nice to have 2D when you just sitting and want to see what happening below or maybe for jigging.

I didn't think I wanted one with a GPS but after talking to CF I decided that maybe down the road I might wish I had one, I do play with the one on my phone and record my tracks. So I'm working on a PO for a HB 597ci HD DI found it at Amazon for $571


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## wihil (Jun 5, 2012)

If you can handle a slightly narrower screen (4.25" instead of 5"), you could save a bit of money with the 587ci DI for $440 -

https://www.imarineusa.com/humminbird587cihddifishfindergpscombo.aspx

The only major difference will be a change from 640x640 pixels to 480x640 pixels, all else stays the same.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 5, 2012)

wihil said:


> If you can handle a slightly narrower screen (4.25" instead of 5"), you could save a bit of money with the 587ci DI for $440 -
> 
> https://www.imarineusa.com/humminbird587cihddifishfindergpscombo.aspx
> 
> The only major difference will be a change from 640x640 pixels to 480x640 pixels, all else stays the same.



Thanks that's a good price. I looked at that model when I was shopping yesterday, but I think I need the 5" screen as I have old eyes. I would get a 7" screen but funds won't allow it.


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## wihil (Jun 5, 2012)

Gramps50 said:


> wihil said:
> 
> 
> > If you can handle a slightly narrower screen (4.25" instead of 5"), you could save a bit of money with the 587ci DI for $440 -
> ...



I hear ya completely - I've got young (but terrible according to the Dr.) eyes, and choked when I forked over the money for my 6.5" screen. I really wanted the 8" one, but that would have had me on the couch for the better part of next year....


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## JMichael (Jun 5, 2012)

Gramps, I'm in the same boat as you (unable to determine which model I want) but for different reasons. I think side imaging would be most useful to me but the cost of any side imaging unit is well above my budget. Most of the fishing I do is in water that is 8' or less with a lot not being more than 4'. So any FF that only looks straight down, isn't going to see much in the narrow field of view from my boat to the bottom of the lake or river.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 5, 2012)

JMichael said:


> Gramps, I'm in the same boat as you (unable to determine which model I want) but for different reasons. I think side imaging would be most useful to me but the cost of any side imaging unit is well above my budget. Most of the fishing I do is in water that is 8' or less with a lot not being more than 4'. So any FF that only looks straight down, isn't going to see much in the narrow field of view from my boat to the bottom of the lake or river.



I saw a video on Quadbeam which also shoots to the side, I think it was on the HumminbirdTV channel on Youtube, it looked real interesting but I am not sure you can still buy it. It wasn't like SI or DI but 2D sonar. Sounds like it is what you need, that is assuming that it works as advertised.

https://www.humminbird.com/leading_innovation/humminbird-sonar/quadrabeam-plus.aspx

Seems the 718 & 728 both will do it with the optional Quadbeam transducer


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## JMichael (Jun 5, 2012)

Without even looking, I'm pretty sure those units are well beyond my price range. :lol:


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## Gramps50 (Jun 5, 2012)

The 728 on Amazon is $299 and the Transducer is $60 same place
https://www.amazon.com/Humminbird-Waterproof-Fishfinder-Dual-Beam-Transducer/dp/B001J6N7X6/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1338951051&sr=1-1


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## JMichael (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm finding next to nothing about which units that quadbeam works with and I'm not to sure if it would even do what I wanted it to since it looks down and right/left at 35° angles. That's not going to show me fish that are 10' off to one side if I'm in water that's only 4-5' deep. But that is interesting that they apparently are going to offer something new it seems.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 6, 2012)

I found the list when looking at the transducer https://store.humminbird.com/products/313988/XNT_9_QB_90_T

My guess is that it's old technology that didn't pan out, I found this advert video that is dated 2008 https://store.humminbird.com/products/271310/140c_Fishin%27_Buddy, the way I heard it in the advert was that it ended up being twice the depth

What about a Fishing Buddy you can point it in the direction you want to look https://store.humminbird.com/products/271310/140c_Fishin%27_Buddy

You might be better off with one of those underwater cameras, just a thought.....


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## Gramps50 (Jun 6, 2012)

Here's a used Hbird 778c with QB https://texasfishingforum.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/7610932/Re_Humminbird_778c_with_Quadra


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## wihil (Jun 6, 2012)

Humminbird's Quadrabeam transducer (P# XNT9QB90 and T) work with the following units:

1157c
1158c
300 TX
400 TX
717
718
727
728
737
747c
757c
767
768
777c2
778C
778c HD
787c2
787c2I
788C
788ci
788ci HD
917C
931C
931C DF
937C
937C DF
957
958c
MATRIX 35
MATRIX 37
PiranhaMax 180 (tri beam only)
WIDE OPTIC
WIDE PANORAMA
WIDE PARAMOUNT
WIDE PORTRAIT
WIDE VIEW
WIDE VISION

Basically it adds the additional 35deg sonar cones on top of each side of the 83Khz (60deg) cone to open up the field of view to 90deg of coverage, offering a true 2:1 ratio of the bottom. Eg, if you're in 4' of water, you'll have 8' on the screen. In 8', you'd have 16', etc etc.

It does open your field of view, but it's not side scan by any means. I read a lot of concern about the narrowness of the cone angle at the extreme edge of the beam, as you'll loose a lot of the water column above the angle.


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## JMichael (Jun 6, 2012)

Gramps50 said:


> I found the list when looking at the transducer https://store.humminbird.com/products/313988/XNT_9_QB_90_T
> 
> My guess is that it's old technology that didn't pan out, I found this advert video that is dated 2008 https://store.humminbird.com/products/271310/140c_Fishin%27_Buddy, the way I heard it in the advert was that it ended up being twice the depth
> 
> ...


I ran in to a guy out fishing earlier this spring that was using one of those. We talked for a bit and he showed me how it worked briefly, but I couldn't remember the name of it to save my life. That indeed might be the answer to what I'm looking for. Thanks Gramps.


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## JMichael (Jun 6, 2012)

wihil said:


> Humminbird's Quadrabeam transducer (P# XNT9QB90 and T) work with the following units:
> 
> 1157c
> 1158c
> ...


Thanks for posting that info. That is the conclusion I came to also, after reading about it.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 7, 2012)

Just ordered a Humminbird 597ci HD DI now I have to wait 5-8 business days for it to arrive. I'm excited. :-D


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## fender66 (Jun 7, 2012)

Gramps50 said:


> Just ordered a Humminbird 597ci HD DI now I have to wait 5-8 business days for it to arrive. I'm excited. :-D



Congrats Gramps.....you're going to like that unit.


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## wihil (Jun 7, 2012)

Gramps50 said:


> Just ordered a Humminbird 597ci HD DI now I have to wait 5-8 business days for it to arrive. I'm excited. :-D


Good stuff - great unit, I think you're really going to like the DI.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 7, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Gramps50 said:
> 
> 
> > Just ordered a Humminbird 597ci HD DI now I have to wait 5-8 business days for it to arrive. I'm excited. :-D
> ...



You may have to teach me how to use it.


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## fender66 (Jun 8, 2012)

Any time! You know how to find me.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 8, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Any time! You know how to find me.



Yes I do... :wink:


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## loosecaboose (Jun 9, 2012)

Gramps,

I think you may a great choice. I have the same unit and really like the DI and 2d simultaneous views. It helps you learn the DI by watching it side-by-sie with the traditional 2d sonar view.


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## JaxJonBoat (Jun 9, 2012)

i am considering the same unit, how is it in sunlight? Also, what do you think is the best map software to get, i am not interested in lakes as much as the intercoastal areas in NE FL. thanks.


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## loosecaboose (Jun 9, 2012)

the display is adequate in sun - could be a little brighter when the sun is directly shinning on it. For maps I use the navionics edition, but I only fish inland lakes.


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## JaxJonBoat (Jun 9, 2012)

thx for the input, looks like i will get this one instead of the elite 5. tough decision. Not sure if any of them do really well in direct sunlight but i just wanted to be sure that the screen doesnt turn black if it gets too hot, it can get pretty warm here in FL and my hand held GPS will become unusable if left in the sun too long, the screen will turn black and the unit will eventually shut off. hope this one doesnt do that. thanks.


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## loosecaboose (Jun 9, 2012)

Mine has never gone black.


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## wihil (Jun 9, 2012)

My bud's Elite 5 was plenty bright on the boat today, we were in the 90's with full sun. I could see it no problem from the bow (mounted at the consol).

I do like Humminbird's dual sonar setup with 2D and DI.


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## Jonboat Jerry (Jun 11, 2012)

Gramps, I have a HB 798CI DI combo w/side imaging and couldn't be happier.
It is in direct sun and gets pretty hot, but has not been affected. 
As noted, the HB forums are very active and customer support is 1st rate.
As for the unit, more pixels is better and my eyes need all that my pocketbook can afford.
About bottom coverage, 
the 20 degrees transducer only shows an area equal to 1/2 the depth,
(10ft deep = 5 feet coverage)
The 60 degree beam covers an area equal to the depth 10' = 10'
The 90 degree Quad Beam covers an area 2 times the depth 10' deep = 20' coverage.

Side imaging is a whole nother animal and will cover an area 125' either side of the boat
from the surface to the bottom. I use that for the flats, so in 2' of water I can see fish
on either side of the boat up to 125' away. 
Sorry for the lengthy read....Jerry


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## TNtroller (Jun 12, 2012)

Jonboat:

I've read where SI doesn't do that well in shallow water, does the sand bottom in the flats make a difference?? Can you post up a screen shot or 2 please???


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## Gramps50 (Jun 14, 2012)

Got the new HB 597ci HD DI yesterday, spent the afternoon and evening installing it to the TM. I didn't use the TM mount that HB makes but bought a Rig Rite bracket off Amazon. The bracket is sturdy and will work with just about any transducer with a few modifications. In my case I had to shorten the 2 long plastic spacers to get the DI transducer to fit and tighten up. It didn't come with any sort of padding between the bracket and the TM so I added a rubber pad, maybe not be necessary but I thought it should have one. The bracket is all metal and powder coated, I think, my TM motor is rather small but the bracket will fit much larger TMs. 

Took the 597 out for a test drive today and was pretty happy with it until I tried to adjust the transducer a little as I wasn't getting good fish arches but if I turned on Fish ID I could see them. Seemed that only part of the arch was showing & remember reading somewhere that it meant that your transducer wasn't adjusted right. This mount doesn't have clicks like the HB mount so it's a little touchier to adjust. Anyway I got it out of whack and that was basically the end if it. MY TM shaft isn't perbindicuar so it's a little harder to eyeball the transducer to get it level with the bottom of the boat.. Came home and made some more adjustments with a plump line so maybe it will be better tomorrow.

Here's a couple of shot from the simulator, forgot to take the SD card this morning.

DI screen



Split DI/2D



Now to learn how to use it


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## fender66 (Jun 15, 2012)

Way to go Gramps....looks like you have a great start. You'll be hooked on it in no time!


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## Gramps50 (Jun 15, 2012)

Readjusted the transducer last night and did not play with it all day. When I first started today the unit was acting a little crazy, the depth would change for 18' to 4' back to 16' then maybe 6' just bouncing around. The lake was calm and the water was like a sheet of glass so there was no real reason for the variation. I did a factory reset and all was then fine. I guess that yesterday I got something out of whack.

Fishing was really slow today so I spent some time trolling around looking at the screen. Still not getting real good fish arches, yet if I switch to Fish ID it shows fish. I turned the sensitivity down to get rid of some of the clutter. I'll keep playing with it and see what happens.

Here's some screen shots for the unit actually working.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 15, 2012)

Readjusted the transducer last night and did not play with it all day. When I first started today the unit was acting a little crazy, the depth would change for 18' to 4' back to 16' then maybe 6' just bouncing around. The lake was calm and the water was like a sheet of glass so there was no real reason for the variation. I did a factory reset and all was then fine. I guess that yesterday I got something out of whack.

Fishing was really slow today so I spent some time trolling around looking at the screen. Still not getting real good fish arches, yet if I switch to Fish ID it shows fish. I turned the sensitivity down to get rid of some of the clutter. I'll keep playing with it and see what happens.

Here's some screen shots for the unit actually working.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 17, 2012)




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## wihil (Jun 17, 2012)

HA! =D> =D> =D> That's great, Gramps!


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## fender66 (Jun 18, 2012)

Love it. I didn't know you could personalize it like that.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 18, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Love it. I didn't know you could personalize it like that.



Well in you case you'd have to have the wife or one of the girls do it. All you have to do is edit a file on the SD card fire up the unit with the SD card inserted and then shutdown and take the SD card out and restart it again. Each line can only be 20 characters wide including spaces.

Option #2 I could do it with the netbook sometime.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 18, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Love it. I didn't know you could personalize it like that.



Well in you case you'd have to have the wife or one of the girls do it. :lol: :lol: 

All you have to do is edit a file on the SD card fire up the unit with the SD card inserted and then shutdown and take the SD card out and restart it again. Each line can only be 20 characters wide including spaces.

Option #2 I could do it with the netbook sometime.


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## fender66 (Jun 18, 2012)

Gramps50 said:


> fender66 said:
> 
> 
> > Love it. I didn't know you could personalize it like that.
> ...



Sounds like it's a PC thing. I'm a Mac guy.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 18, 2012)

fender66 said:


> Gramps50 said:
> 
> 
> > fender66 said:
> ...



Not really I'm a Linux guy, no Winders here =D>


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## fender66 (Jun 18, 2012)

We'll have to get together again sometime soon. You can show me.


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## Gramps50 (Jun 18, 2012)

fender66 said:


> We'll have to get together again sometime soon. You can show me.



I can certainly do that, be happy to


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