# Cutting out or drilling out middle bench seat?



## The10Man (Aug 6, 2017)

I’ve been thinking about removing my middle bench seat of my 1436 for a while. I mostly fish fresh water lakes but also do some duck hunting as well. Whenever I’m fishing it can be annoying to have to climb over the middle seat to get to the front casting platform. Additionally, removing the bench would give me more room in the boat for duck hunting. 

My question for those who have experience with this is, should I take the bench out by drilling out the rivets or would I be better off just cutting the bench out as close to the side of the boat as I can and potentially grinding down the remaining aluminum to make it as flush as possible? 

Currently the boat is bone dry and I’ve never had a problem with leaks. I’m a little concerned that if I drill out the rivets it may be difficult to put new rivets in (I’ve never riveted anything before) good enough so that they don’t leak. The advantages of leaving the rivets in is that I know the boat won’t leak. However, I think it will look cleaner if I take the rivets out and replace them. 

I plan on reinforcing the floor/sides somehow but haven’t quite determined how I want to do that.


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## surfman (Aug 7, 2017)

I took mine out and if I want, I can always put it back in because I didn't cut it up. I just ground off the smashed end of the rivet which is on the inside of the boat and then took a punch and knocked out the rivet, piece of cake. then when I removed the bench, I replaced the rivets, most rivets are too long because they are made to join pieces together so I trimmed the rives so that they were only about 3/16" long, use 2 hammers to set the rivet, nothing to it.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Aug 7, 2017)

Does your boat have ribs that go up the sides? Another option that some have done is to remove the middle section of the bench to walk through and leaving the outer sections as small seats with storage underneath.


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## The10Man (Aug 7, 2017)

surfman said:


> I took mine out and if I want, I can always put it back in because I didn't cut it up. I just ground off the smashed end of the rivet which is on the inside of the boat and then took a punch and knocked out the rivet, piece of cake. then when I removed the bench, I replaced the rivets, most rivets are too long because they are made to join pieces together so I trimmed the rives so that they were only about 3/16" long, use 2 hammers to set the rivet, nothing to it.



I may just end up doing this and just drill out the rivets. I never thought about it before, but yeah I guess I could put it back in if I don't like it. Thanks for the tip on shortening the rivets. 



lckstckn2smknbrls said:


> Does your boat have ribs that go up the sides? Another option that some have done is to remove the middle section of the bench to walk through and leaving the outer sections as small seats with storage underneath.



The ribs run about 3/4 the way up the side. Thanks for the suggestion. I like the idea of having the storage on the sides but I think the overall space gained by removing the bench altogether out weighs having the storage.


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## BigTerp (Aug 7, 2017)

lckstckn2smknbrls said:


> *Does your boat have ribs that go up the sides?* Another option that some have done is to remove the middle section of the bench to walk through and leaving the outer sections as small seats with storage underneath.



This. I removed my middle bench in my 1648, but only after doing some research and finding out that ribs that extend up the sides help with support since the bench is an important structural component. I also extended my front deck by about 18" or so, which also help replace some of the structural support I lost by removing my middle bench. If I did not have ribs that extended up the sides I do not think I would have removed my middle bench. As far as rivets go, I drilled mine out and had the holes welded up. But I wouldn't hesitate to just replace the rivets with new solid rivets and a dab of 5200. Solid rivets are easy to set once you do a few and the tools needed to do so are pretty inexpensive. I have several holes in my boat below the waterline that are sealed up with a solid rivet and 5200. Watertight.


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## The10Man (Aug 7, 2017)

BigTerp said:


> This. I removed my middle bench in my 1648, but only after doing some research and finding out that ribs that extend up the sides help with support since the bench is an important structural component. I also extended my front deck by about 18" or so, which also help replace some of the structural support I lost by removing my middle bench. If I did not have ribs that extended up the sides I do not think I would have removed my middle bench. As far as rivets go, I drilled mine out and had the holes welded up. But I wouldn't hesitate to just replace the rivets with new solid rivets and a dab of 5200. Solid rivets are easy to set once you do a few and the tools needed to do so are pretty inexpensive. I have several holes in my boat below the waterline that are sealed up with a solid rivet and 5200. Watertight.



If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to have the holes welded? Why did you decide to go this route instead of just using solid rivets?


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## BigTerp (Aug 8, 2017)

The10Man said:


> If you don't mind me asking, how much did it cost to have the holes welded? Why did you decide to go this route instead of just using solid rivets?



I had a local guy (member on here actually) weld up the holes for me. I honestly don't remember what he charged, but it wasn't much. Most likely less then if I took it to an actual shop. But he did a great job. No issues in the 3+ years since I had it done.

I decided to weld them because removing my middle bench was a permanent decision. I was never going to put that bench back in. It also had a small livewell built into the bench with a 1" drain coming out the side of the hull. That hole would have have needed welded shut regardless, so I went ahead and had the rest of the rivet holes done at the same time. But, I wouldn't hesitate to use solid rivets on the old holes for the middle bench. I have several holes that are sealed up with solid rivets and a bit of 5200 without issues.


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## chevyrulz (Aug 8, 2017)

for what it's worth, i opted NOT to do this to my 1436 over concerns about how to do it & not make it look like crap as well as how it might make the boat less safe in rough water because i do take it out in the bay & you never know when a random storm will kick up big swells that you must navigate & i didn't want a rogue wave hitting just right & folding up the hull leaving me to swim in waders during january

so, i opted to just make a giant deck by connecting the middle bench to the front bench, loved the huge casting deck, & the boat took rough water way better after i did it since it added a ton of structural integrity


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## The10Man (Aug 8, 2017)

BigTerp said:


> I decided to weld them because removing my middle bench was a permanent decision. I was never going to put that bench back in. It also had a small livewell built into the bench with a 1" drain coming out the side of the hull. That hole would have have needed welded shut regardless, so I went ahead and had the rest of the rivet holes done at the same time. But, I wouldn't hesitate to use solid rivets on the old holes for the middle bench. I have several holes that are sealed up with solid rivets and a bit of 5200 without issues.



This makes sense. I probably would have just done the same thing if I knew I had to plug up the live well hole. 

If I decide to move forward with this I'll probably just use rivets and 5200. Thanks!


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## The10Man (Aug 8, 2017)

chevyrulz said:


> for what it's worth, i opted NOT to do this to my 1436 over concerns about how to do it & not make it look like crap as well as how it might make the boat less safe in rough water because i do take it out in the bay & you never know when a random storm will kick up big swells that you must navigate & i didn't want a rogue wave hitting just right & folding up the hull leaving me to swim in waders during january
> 
> so, i opted to just make a giant deck by connecting the middle bench to the front bench, loved the huge casting deck, & the boat took rough water way better after i did it since it added a ton of structural integrity



Hi Chevy, thank you for the input. I understand the concern. What part of the country do live in and hunt? Most of the places I hunt in January are relatively calm water and aren't very deep, although water temps can be cold. 

After you made the giant deck, did you hunt with anyone else in the boat? If so, where did that person sit when hunting?

A big large deck would be great for most of what I use the boat for (fishing) but for the other 15% an open floor plan would be super useful.


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## BigTerp (Aug 9, 2017)

The10Man said:


> This makes sense. I probably would have just done the same thing if I knew I had to plug up the live well hole.
> 
> If I decide to move forward with this I'll probably just use rivets and 5200. Thanks!



Not a problem. If you end up going with solid rivets and 5200 and need a rivet setting tool, I suggest the Harbor Freight air hammer https://www.harborfreight.com/air-impact-hammer-kit-92037.html This is what I purchased and used and it works fine. You just need to find the appropriate rivet tool for the air hammer depending on what rivets you'll be using.


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## chevyrulz (Aug 9, 2017)

i'm in coastal SC, so regularly crossing 25-50' deep channels & bays 

far as the deck, the passengers would sit by me and/or on the front deck, the bench seat still there they'd just face me instead of forward.

in wooded back creeks where it doesn't get rough, i've hunted 4 & a dog out the boat before. in bigger water i never tried the 4 man hunt

keep in mind you can put a TON of storage under that front deck which means you won't be short of cockpit floor space & actually you'll have less clutter than you have now because anything in the forward cockpit floor right now would be under the deck out of your way. 

i put a gun box along the port side, a battery hatch along the front of the center bench dead center of the boat, and a hatch in front of that for storage, i didn't build multiple storage boxes, just the 1 gun box was isolated with walls, the battery was bolted down in a battery box, & the rest was just open space where i kept lifejackets, anchor, flares, etc


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## The10Man (Aug 9, 2017)

Chevy, that is a good looking boat! In your previous post when you said you added a deck across the front and middle seat, I expected it to look like so many other 1436's that just have a carpeted piece of plywood over the top without much if any access or storage. It looks like you did it the right way and it was very well though out. Is that all diamond plate aluminum? If so, how much extra weight did this add? Do you have a build thread for this boat? I tried looking for it in your posts but you have a ton of posts. 

What year and brand boat is this? What size motor did you have for this boat? Other than size, why did you get rid of it (I saw your profile/signature)? Anything you didn't like about the setup?

So did you guys hunt in the boat (or on top of it) or did you push it in the weeds or on the shore and wade when hunting. Sorry to ask again, but I'm just trying to figure out how to hunt from a deck like this. I'm assuming you'd need a pretty tall blind or really low seats.


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## chevyrulz (Aug 10, 2017)

The10Man said:


> Is that all diamond plate aluminum?


yes, 1/4" diamond plate craigslist find, stupid cheap, prolly never find a deal like that again, but can just use road signs, as long as they're aluminum which most of them are, or if you got the money you can order sheet aluminum or diamond plate sheets, just ain't cheap like road signs.



The10Man said:


> how much extra weight did this add?


totally guessing, but maybe 80lbs. did not affect draft or speed noticeably, & the boat needed bow weight anyway so it helped with that, before the deck it would porpoise at wide open throttle if i didn't have a passenger or some weight up front, the battery moving from the back to the front also helped that though.



The10Man said:


> Do you have a build thread for this boat?


 yes, it's here & linked in my signature: https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=29851 but all the pictures got gone & i only had a few random ones left that i found in old emails i'd sent so no way to fix the thread pics unfortunately. the words are still there tho! 

for the framing i used aluminum angle from onlinemetals.com & it was stupid cheap too compared to lowes/tractor supply/etc., you can google a coupon code for 20% off (or you used to could) & that would pay shipping & then some. i think i had maybe $120 in framing. 
lots of labor to build the framing since every cut was with an angle grinder or my jig saw. 

otherwise just the pop rivet gun & a bunch of 5200. i put 5200 in every rivet hole. 

the diamond plate was heavy, but not bad & way less than wet wood plus it'll never rot. i would NEVER use wood to frame out a boat, sure it can be done & it's cheaper, but aluminum is so much lighter & durable, it's way better to just wait til you can afford to do it right in my opinion. just my thoughts, plenty of folks on here would probably disagree & have made some really cool builds using wood so it's not like you can't make the same thing with wood.



The10Man said:


> What year and brand boat is this?


1994 Alumacraft 1436L bone stock in great condition i picked up at the beginning of 2013. i got it for $500 with the trailer off craigslist without a motor on it bout an hour away, trailer was junk so i sold it, & then found a nice trailer cheap off craigslist.



The10Man said:


> What size motor did you have for this boat?


Evinrude 30hp 2-stroke 



The10Man said:


> Other than size, why did you get rid of it?


size was the reason. i miss having a light weight boat though. a lot easier to deal with beached & effortless to move around in the driveway. not the case with my 18' rig.



The10Man said:


> Anything you didn't like about the setup?


nope, aside from the obvious limitations of a 1436 being inherently a little tippy in the stock configuration without a deck & not exactly a soft or dry ride across 3-4' swells, but you get beat up & wet in those conditions in my 18' rig too albeit more safely.



The10Man said:


> So did you guys hunt in the boat (or on top of it) or did you push it in the weeds or on the shore and wade when hunting.


both. never made a blind for it, always just brought a tank net & some palm fronds to hide it along w/ using brush from wherever we were hunting. i very rarely hunt out of the boat whether it was my 14, my 15, or the 18 i have now.

as far as the setup on the hull, it was amazing how much sturdier the boat was once i connected the front deck to the middle bench to the ribs on the bottom with framing & the deck. going across wakes & waves it just felt way more solid, crashing into a dock there was no flex, etc. literally a little miniature tank on the water.


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## Drock (Aug 10, 2017)

BigTerp said:


> The10Man said:
> 
> 
> > This makes sense. I probably would have just done the same thing if I knew I had to plug up the live well hole.
> ...



A little help from you BigTerp please sir.
I have not riveted before so if you could clarify, what do you mean by; "just need to find the appropriate rivet tool for the air hammer depending on what rivets you'll be using." what is that tool and where would I look for it? Any tips on installing would be nice too.
Danny


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## Johnny (Aug 10, 2017)

and you need an air compressor at least 4cfm minimum.
6cfm or more if you have many rivets.

and you need a heavy steel bucking bar to flatten the back side of the stem.
several good threads on this forum about setting (bucking) rivets.
also - the good ole YouTube is a big help.



.


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## Drock (Aug 10, 2017)

I'll do some more looking thanks Johnny.


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## surfman (Aug 11, 2017)

If you are using aluminum rivets, and I hope you are, they are very soft, two hammers, one a fairly heavy one like a 2# sledge is better but honestly a regular 16oz framing hammer and a lighter hammer works just as good. Use the heavier hammer as the anvil on the finished side of the rivet and the smaller hammer to simply tap the rivet flat, two or three blows is all it takes. I set mine with not issues at all and they are tight and sound. It was really easy. All you are doing is plugging holes, now if you are joining metal together that might be different.


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## Johnny (Aug 11, 2017)

I forgot to mention the totally manual method.

find a piece of heavy steel bar, drill a "divot" the size of your rivet head
into the end and polish it smooth with some round burrs and stones.
this is a two-man procedure if you do not have arms like an orangutan.










*any imperfections in the dimple will mirror to the face of the rivet head when bucked.
also - if the face of the hammer is dirty and rusty, the smashed tail will mirror the hammer face*


.


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## chevyrulz (Aug 11, 2017)

here's a look @ how you do the solid rivets, same deal whether using the gun or a hammer to "buck" them:


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## BigTerp (Aug 11, 2017)

All good advice above. The air hammer just makes things easier/quicker, especially if your setting a lot or rivets that are awkward/difficult to get to. If you go with the air hammer the best way to set the air pressure correctly for aluminum rivets is to use a piece of untreated lumber. You want the tool to dent the wood a bit, not tear into it.


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## AZSunDevil (Aug 11, 2017)

So how does one determine the most appropriate "tip" for the pneumatic rivet hammer? I see the flat faced one and then several with the concave /rounded face


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## Johnny (Aug 11, 2017)

the concave rivet tools match the rivet you are using.
solid rivets come in different sizes.
the flat face tool is probably when you buck from the back side.
I have used it both ways with good results.
the tools come as a group set from Northern Tool.

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200449128_200449128



.


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## AZSunDevil (Aug 12, 2017)

Johnny said:


> the concave rivet tools match the rivet you are using.
> solid rivets come in different sizes.
> the flat face tool is probably when you buck from the back side.
> I have used it both ways with good results.
> ...


So what's considered the back side vs. the front side?


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## Johnny (Aug 13, 2017)




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