# merc 25 4/S short shaft vs long shaft on grizzly 1448



## fyr4efect (Aug 21, 2018)

I have ordered a Grizzly 1448. I have yet to order the motor.
The actual shaft length on the Merc short shaft is 15.9 in. and the long shaft is 21.7
The transom is 17.5 in. If I get the short shaft it will be 1.5 in above the transom. If I get the long shaft I can adjust with a mini jacker etc. 
My question is what would be better for the boat, motor, prop. Fixed i.5 above transom with the short shaft or use of mini jacker and long shaft with a 4" offset?

Thx


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## turbotodd (Aug 22, 2018)

With a 17.5" transom, you need a short shaft. You "could" put a long on a jack plate but then it looks weird and the motor's moved back about 4" which makes the tiller handle "shorter". 

The transom on mine's a short one and measures 16 7/8" from the top of the transom to the bottom of the keel. I run a 16" (short) motor on it and it works fine. Boat manufacturers are weird about the measurements sometimes. IMO, they should be called "short" or "tall"-and leave it alone.


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## fyr4efect (Aug 22, 2018)

turbotodd said:


> With a 17.5" transom, you need a short shaft. You "could" put a long on a jack plate but then it looks weird and the motor's moved back about 4" which makes the tiller handle "shorter".
> 
> The transom on mine's a short one and measures 16 7/8" from the top of the transom to the bottom of the keel. I run a 16" (short) motor on it and it works fine. Boat manufacturers are weird about the measurements sometimes. IMO, they should be called "short" or "tall"-and leave it alone.



Thx for your response. I picked up the boat this am. After talking to the cabelas maintenance guys I ordered the long shaft. I'll be mounting the jacker where I want it and they will just drop the engine on and drill two bolts. It will be about 1" above the bottom transom. Merc sent me these schematics.
I wish tracker would make their 1448 with a 20" option. I love the new front hatch. This thing is a tank.


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## fyr4efect (Sep 15, 2018)

turbotodd said:


> With a 17.5" transom, you need a short shaft. You "could" put a long on a jack plate but then it looks weird and the motor's moved back about 4" which makes the tiller handle "shorter".
> 
> The transom on mine's a short one and measures 16 7/8" from the top of the transom to the bottom of the keel. I run a 16" (short) motor on it and it works fine. Boat manufacturers are weird about the measurements sometimes. IMO, they should be called "short" or "tall"-and leave it alone.



I think you are correct even tho Cabelas said I need a long shaft at least initially, now they want to know if I want to try a short shaft. BTW TH mini jacker is too narrow for the merc 25 bolt pattern. They said maybe I could have a metal fabricator widen the jack. I left. I spoke with Tohatsu who makes a 25 short shaft with power trim. They said their 15.9 short shaft is closer to 17". I trust someone who has a short shaft on a 17" transom like yourself. I have a lot to learn about marine tech.


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## turbotodd (Sep 15, 2018)

fyr4efect said:


> I have a lot to learn about marine tech.



So do I, which is why I'm on this site as often as I am.


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## richg99 (Sep 16, 2018)

I believe that Tahatsu makes both their own small engines, and also makes most of the Mercury small engines, too.


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## fyr4efect (Sep 17, 2018)

turbotodd said:


> fyr4efect said:
> 
> 
> > I have a lot to learn about marine tech.
> ...



I've got it boiled down to a Tohatsu 25 electric,PT&T or Suzuki 25 electric PT&T. I am still studying both. The Tohatsu dealer here looks like hes working out of a house and the Suzuki dealers is 120 miles away but looks more reputable. Appreciate any opinions.


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## richg99 (Sep 17, 2018)

I have owned both 10 hp Tahatsu and a 10 hp Suzuki. Didn't own either of them long enough to have any trouble. 

My tendency would be towards the Tahatsu but only because they do have a fine reputation and they make the Mercury motors, so you might be able to get service from a Merc. guy. Though, that might not be under warranty. 

Guess you have to do some internet searching to see which one has the better feedback online.


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## fyr4efect (Sep 17, 2018)

richg99 said:


> I have owned both 10 hp Tahatsu and a 10 hp Suzuki. Didn't own either of them long enough to have any trouble.
> 
> My tendency would be towards the Tahatsu but only because they do have a fine reputation and they make the Mercury motors, so you might be able to get service from a Merc. guy. Though, that might not be under warranty.
> 
> Guess you have to do some internet searching to see which one has the better feedback online.


Thx for the input


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## jtsull (Sep 18, 2018)

I have a 2017 Grizzly 1448 that I bought 1 year old. (and yes, 17.5" transom as well). Came with a 2017 20 HP Suzuki tiller short shaft. Main reason for the 1448 is it fits in my small garage but I really wanted a side console version so I sold the motor, bought a side console setup, and a 2018 Suzuki 25 HP (DF25ATL) remote steer long shaft to be attached to a THMarine micro-jacker power jack. 
I feel your pain with the decision to go short or long shaft. 17.5 is sort of in the middle of 15" versus 20". The short shaft tiller had to be setup just right. Top speed versus venting of the prop on corners versus getting it to plain out with two on board. But, it did work and the boat moved along nicely at 27 MPH or so. I can say just bolting on a long shaft to the existing transom without some sort of jack plate will end up with the vent plate being 2" to 3 " below the bottom of the transom. I will hurt top speed - too much motor in the water. 
For me, because the combined weight of the DF25ATL (~158 lbs) and the micro-jacker (~30 Lbs), I also welded on a pair of beavertail flotation pods to the rear end. 
I'm new to the forum but would be happy to share my experience with this if anyone is interested.


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## richg99 (Sep 18, 2018)

Thanks for sharing. Please post a picture of your boat's stern when convenient.


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## jtsull (Sep 18, 2018)

Will do in a few days. Away from home this week ...


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## fyr4efect (Sep 18, 2018)

jtsull said:


> Will do in a few days. Away from home the week ...



Just got off the phone with Suzuki. Said 25ATHS [short shaft] measures 16.6" clamps to cav plate. Theyre sending a schematic. Pic of my swing tongue added. Saved two ft.


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## jtsull (Sep 22, 2018)

So here is my build. Note: the transom is no longer 17.5". I had a 2" x 2" x 1/4" aluminum square tube welded to the top of the transom and welded into the corner supports. Even with that, the micro-jacker is mounted 1/2" above the transom top resulting with the motor's cav plate about 1/2" below the bottom of the boat when the jack is all the way down. So my jack's travel is about 1/2" below the bottom of the boat to 4 1/2" above. (Great for skinny water but a little too high for on plain motoring). In my humble opinion with your 17.5" transom, I would clamp a short shaft on it if not using a jack. If you get a long shaft, even with a jack consider I have mine mounted at 20" and still it is a little below the bottom of the boat. Without the mod I made to the transom the cav plate would be about 2 1/2" below the bottom of the boat all the way down. Note: I couldn't use a short shaft and mount the jack plate lower on the transom because the motor clamps won't clear the transom when lowering. Adding 2" to the transom locked in into a long shaft. However with the pods and 19 1/2" transom, no more water slashes in over the transom. 
Pictures attached. My sealing job with white marine sealant is a mess. But the setup does work nicely. Hope this helps.


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## fyr4efect (Sep 22, 2018)

jtsull said:


> So here is my build. Note: the transom is no longer 17.5". I had a 2" x 2" x 1/4" aluminum square tube welded to the top of the transom and welded into the corner supports. Even with that, the micro-jacker is mounted 1/2" above the transom top resulting with the motor's cav plate about 1/2" below the bottom of the boat when the jack is all the way down. So my jack's travel is about 1/2" below the bottom of the boat to 4 1/2" above. (Great for skinny water but a little too high for on plain motoring). In my humble opinion with your 17.5" transom, I would clamp a short shaft on it if not using a jack. If you get a long shaft, even with a jack consider I have mine mounted at 20" and still it is a little below the bottom of the boat. Without the mod I made to the transom the cav plate would be about 2 1/2" below the bottom of the boat all the way down. Note: I couldn't use a short shaft and mount the jack plate lower on the transom because the motor clamps won't clear the transom when lowering. Adding 2" to the transom locked in into a long shaft. However with the pods and 19 1/2" transom, no more water slashes in over the transom.
> Pictures attached. My sealing job with white marine sealant is a mess. But the setup does work nicely. Hope this helps.



Wow! That's a lot of work. Nice setup! I spoke with the OnlineOutboard guy about a Tohatsu 20 electric, tilt, short shaft. 116 lbs. He says the shaft length is closer to 17-17.5 so I think I'll go with that. Mount it myself. I like the new Yam 25 but the short shaft is manual tilt only. Im getting old. The Tohatsu 20's on back order. Both batteries are up front in the hatch and just me fishing mostly so I should be fine. Simple. Thanks for your pics and info. If your concerned about space you might put a swing tongue on. Saved me 2ft. Cheers


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## jtsull (Sep 22, 2018)

Yup. Already added a tilt away tongue as well. Fits in the garage with room to spare. 
Next thing is a Helix 7 but I have to wait to let the wife recover from the motor/jack/console. :lol:


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## fyr4efect (Sep 22, 2018)

jtsull said:


> Yup. Already added a tilt away tongue as well. Fits in the garage with room to spare.
> Next thing is a Helix 7 but I have to wait to let the wife recover from the motor/jack/console. :lol:



I haven't had my boat out yet, being busy with set up. FF will be after I get the engine. I use a RayMarine dragonfly DI on my kayak.


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## fyr4efect (Sep 22, 2018)

fyr4efect said:


> jtsull said:
> 
> 
> > Yup. Already added a tilt away tongue as well. Fits in the garage with room to spare.
> ...



Work in progress. Painted with Epifanes mono-urethane dark green. Sent PM.


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## jtsull (Sep 23, 2018)

Color looks great. Bottom too?


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## fyr4efect (Sep 23, 2018)

jtsull said:


> Color looks great. Bottom too?



Just sides and back. Leaving the rest alone. Putting a couple rod tubes on the port side. That's been fun. Cant wait to get it on the water. How do you like yours?
I got quoted 6K for a Suzuki 25 from the not so local dealer. Crazy. The Tohatsu dealer here looks like he works out of his residence. Cabelas/BP sell package boats, otherwise kinda clueless. So I am going to get a 20 Tohatsu from onlineoutboards. 3400.


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## jtsull (Sep 27, 2018)

Onlineoutboards has a Suz 25 tiller for around 4K. 20 HP is about the same $ what you are looking at. 
I use my Grizzly for more than lakes which it is perfect for. (Perfect meaning for me and storage in my small garage). 
I also run out into the inshore rivers / small bays of the Tampa Bay area. Going to have to try to avoid from that as the waves from the large boats really bang down the hull if I hit them at 25 or more MPH. I worry about splitting a weld. A Grizzly 1648 with a 60 HP would definitely be more roomy and fun...


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## fyr4efect (Sep 28, 2018)

jtsull said:


> Onlineoutboards has a Suz 25 tiller for around 4K. 20 HP is about the same $ what you are looking at.
> I use my Grizzly for more than lakes which it is perfect for. (Perfect meaning for me and storage in my small garage).
> I also run out into the inshore rivers / small bays of the Tampa Bay area. Going to have to try to avoid from that as the waves from the large boats really bang down the hull if I hit them at 25 or more MPH. I worry about splitting a weld. A Grizzly 1648 with a 60 HP would definitely be more roomy and fun...


The nearest Suzuki dealer is 3.5 hr drive and they already don't seem to be interested in my small engine request much less do warranty work on an engine I didn't get from them. The 20 Tohatsu is about 50lbs lighter and 800 less and have a local dealer [in case of warranty]. From what Ive read I should get mid twentys wot. Im just on lakes so that's fine for me. It beats 5mph on my kayak. Im downsizing from my last boat. Alumacraft 165 classic tiller 60hp Yam. 
I use to live in south fla 70's and late 80's. Tampa is a great place to fish. You are fortunate to live there. I miss having Grouper.


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## turbotodd (Sep 29, 2018)

Have you considered Yamaha any? Lightest 25hp on the market. Inexpensive too, in comparison to some of the others. Sure do like mine.

If there's one thing I like about the Merc, it's that it's a 3 cylinder (same as Tohatsu since TOhatsu makes it). The suzuki is also 3 cylinder, and a little lighter than the Merc. Finally got a chance to run a Suzuki DF25AES2 and though it was smooth running, and pretty quiet, it was noisier than my little twin cylinder Yamaha, and honestly, for what it costs, I wasn't that impressed with it. 

The Merc 25ELH MSRP is $4700 and change.
Suzuki 25 is about $4900.
ETEC 25 is about $5200-which I dont' care about because I don't care for the heavy, expensive 2 stroke-even if it is a good motor.
Yamaha-I bought mine (short shaft electric start tiller manual tilt since it's a LOT lighter than my old one), $3699 out the door. I think MSRP is higher online, got mine locally, price was a lot lower than any online retailer-and I didn't get anything "off" of it being that I work at a dealer. They make like $20 on a loose outboard (not included into a boat/trailer package), so the price is the same for everyone. Came with high quality fuel line, but no tank...they'll include a tank but I just re-used mine and saved them a little $$$.

Watch the online retailers. I had a buddy who bought a Tohatsu 25hp in 2010, bought it on ebay because of the much lower price than anyone local. Well it was lower for a reason. Generic listing. Was supposed to be an electric start, got it and we went to hang it on his transom and realized that it was a manual start only. Had to pay to send it back of course (truck freight due to the size/weight), finally got them to own up to the misleading listing, they sent the correct one-ended up costing him more than buying it locally, lost half of the fishing season waiting around and fighting with the seller. It was a good motor, a little crude, but it did what we asked it to do, other than a lack of power trim (listing said power trim & tilt-when in fact it was not trim, just tilt...meaning it could not be trimmed while underway). That particulary upset me in that I'm used to having trim to change the boat's attitude in relation to a load change. In other words, it was "cheaper" for a reason.


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## fyr4efect (Sep 30, 2018)

turbotodd said:


> Have you considered Yamaha any? Lightest 25hp on the market. Inexpensive too, in comparison to some of the others. Sure do like mine.
> 
> If there's one thing I like about the Merc, it's that it's a 3 cylinder (same as Tohatsu since TOhatsu makes it). The suzuki is also 3 cylinder, and a little lighter than the Merc. Finally got a chance to run a Suzuki DF25AES2 and though it was smooth running, and pretty quiet, it was noisier than my little twin cylinder Yamaha, and honestly, for what it costs, I wasn't that impressed with it.
> 
> ...




Great info as usual. The Yamaha dealer here is interested in motor/boat packages only. Wouldn't sell me just an engine. The other issue is the Yam 25 short shaft doesn't have Trim or tilt. I am aware the Tohatsu 20 short shaft is just tilt. Spoke with Tohatsu about OnlineOutboards[Cumberland Watersports] They have good things to say about them. Wouldn't buy anything from Ebay. Wish Yam made power tilt on 25 Short shaft.


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## jtsull (Oct 1, 2018)

My experience with onlineoutboards was very positive. Wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.


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## fyr4efect (Oct 1, 2018)

jtsull said:


> My experience with onlineoutboards was very positive. Wouldn't hesitate to buy from them again.


Did a bunch of ck'ing on several forums. Lots of positives, now yours.
Steve at OnlineOutboards says the 20 Tohatsu tiller electric/power tilt is back ordered. Available Oct. 15th. Must be a popular little bugger. Do you have side guide posts? Not sure they're needed on this 14'. Looking at the CE Smith 40" upright PVC type.


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## jtsull (Oct 2, 2018)

I do. Even at 14' it helps keep it aligned motoring onto the trailer in the wind or current.
I suppose the side boards would work as well.


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## turbotodd (Oct 3, 2018)

fyr4efect said:


> turbotodd said:
> 
> 
> > Have you considered Yamaha any? Lightest 25hp on the market. Inexpensive too, in comparison to some of the others. Sure do like mine.
> ...



Some dealers are like that. A loose (not mounted on a boat) 25hp only makes the dealer about $20 or thereabouts, so they don't get real excited about selling them by themselves. They "could" mark them up but it goes without saying that a hike would also put them non competitive. Each dealer is different.


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## fyr4efect (Oct 5, 2018)

turbotodd said:


> fyr4efect said:
> 
> 
> > turbotodd said:
> ...



Im a fan of Yam, having a Yam 60 tiller on my last boat. The new Yam 25 is impressive.


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## LDUBS (Oct 5, 2018)

*"Looking at the CE Smith 40" upright PVC type."*

Had them on my previous 15' boat. They sure make life a lot easier, especially when windy. I would highly recommend them.


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## fyr4efect (Oct 5, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> *"Looking at the CE Smith 40" upright PVC type."*
> 
> Had them on my previous 15' boat. They sure make life a lot easier, especially when windy. I would highly recommend them.



Thx for the input.

Just painted the bracket and the 90 Degree 1 1/2" pipe. Putting em on in am. They look well made. Now if I just had an engine.


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## fyr4efect (Oct 6, 2018)

fyr4efect said:


> LDUBS said:
> 
> 
> > *"Looking at the CE Smith 40" upright PVC type."*
> ...



On.


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## LDUBS (Oct 7, 2018)

I put a screw through the bottom of the PVC pipe into the bracket. Probably not needed but felt it was a easy precaution.


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## fyr4efect (Oct 7, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> I put a screw through the bottom of the PVC pipe into the bracket. Probably not needed but felt it was a easy precaution.



The pipe has a raised knockout and the PVC has a slot. It slides down, kinda locks into place. Money well spent.


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