# Best deck waterproofing before gluing carpet??



## Jay415

I am up in the air about what to use on my boat decks. I want to waterproof the plywood and all wood supports, but I also want to make sure I won't have an issue with the carpet glue adhering. I was thinking about using Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane or Thompson's Water Seal. What"s the best to use? I was reading a container of outdoor carpet glue that said "not for water sealed surfaces" I think the brand was Chapco from Lowes. I read about and was recommended Henry 663 so I'll prob go with that unless someone can recommend better.


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## nosticks

I used epoxy resin on the wood surfaces, top, bottom, and edges. I used the outdoor carpet glue from Ho Dep. All is adhering well.


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## devilmutt

I used the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane on all the wood in my boat, then I glued the carpet down with Roberts 6700 Premium carpet glue from Home Depot or Lowes.


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## Jay415

Thanks I have to check out what Home Depot has. Lowes had the Chapco, which I don't feel comfortable with after reading the label. I prob stick with the Helmsman for sealing though.


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## MacDaddy21

When I did mine, I just bought some Thompsons Water Seal and did 3 coats on both sides of every piece of deck. Then I applied generous 5200 to all the edges of the plywood let it set for the recommended 7 days. Then I primed each piece top and bottom with 3 coats of an oil based outdoor wood primer which was designed to adhere to the Thompsons. Then came back with 3 coats of Valspar severe weather outdoor paint on each side. Then carpeted with dark gray outdoor carpet with rubber backing and used outdoor weather resistant glue, and stainless steel marine staples. Going on a year with absolutely no issues.


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## Jay415

devilmutt said:


> I used the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane on all the wood in my boat, then I glued the carpet down with Roberts 6700 Premium carpet glue from Home Depot or Lowes.


the Roberts 6700 got good reviews on HD's web site and a few of the reviewers used it for marine use. So hopefully they have it locally. I'll use that with Helmsman.


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## Jay415

devilmutt said:


> I used the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane on all the wood in my boat, then I glued the carpet down with Roberts 6700 Premium carpet glue from Home Depot or Lowes.


I was just going over your build, GREAT JOB! =D> 
I was able to get Roberts 6700 locally so I think I'm gonna follow your lead with this one. Have you had the carpet subjected to heavy wetness at all? Like rain storms?
I am in the process of coating a test piece with Helmsman and then I'll glue a scrap of carpet to it. I don't see why I should have any problems though. I bought Satin finish Helmsman because I was guessing with more gloss, there would be more of a chance for glue not to stick. Like gluing to glass. What finish did you use? Do you think it even matters?



nosticks said:


> I used epoxy resin on the wood surfaces, top, bottom, and edges. I used the outdoor carpet glue from Ho Dep. All is adhering well.


This sounds like it left a glossy finish so I guess I shouldn't worry about it. Did you use the Roberts 6700 also? That's the only outdoor carpet glue I saw at HD.
Did you sand or rough up the surface before gluing?


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## HOUSE

I did Helmsman Spar Urethane as well, mainly because I was copying what Devil did since I liked his build too 
It turned out pretty well. I went through two of their smaller quart size cans, so I also bought a spray can urethane to go with it to help seal the sides and problem areas.


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## Hanr3

I used oil based paint and contact cememt.

3 years outside under a boat cover, oh and a few trips to the lake fishing, including numerous boat camping trips in the rain. Still like the day I built it.


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## devilmutt

Jay415 said:


> devilmutt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used the Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane on all the wood in my boat, then I glued the carpet down with Roberts 6700 Premium carpet glue from Home Depot or Lowes.
> 
> 
> 
> I was just going over your build, GREAT JOB! =D>
> I was able to get Roberts 6700 locally so I think I'm gonna follow your lead with this one. Have you had the carpet subjected to heavy wetness at all? Like rain storms?
> I am in the process of coating a test piece with Helmsman and then I'll glue a scrap of carpet to it. I don't see why I should have any problems though. I bought Satin finish Helmsman because I was guessing with more gloss, there would be more of a chance for glue not to stick. Like gluing to glass. What finish did you use? Do you think it even matters?
> 
> 
> 
> nosticks said:
> 
> 
> 
> I used epoxy resin on the wood surfaces, top, bottom, and edges. I used the outdoor carpet glue from Ho Dep. All is adhering well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> This sounds like it left a glossy finish so I guess I shouldn't worry about it. Did you use the Roberts 6700 also? That's the only outdoor carpet glue I saw at HD.
> Did you sand or rough up the surface before gluing?
Click to expand...


I don't know if it matters, but I used the satin finish. I haven't had the boat out in any downpours yet, but I expect it to hold up well.


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## Jay415

devilmutt said:


> I don't know if it matters, but I used the satin finish. I haven't had the boat out in any downpours yet, but I expect it to hold up well.



Ok so I am using exactly the same as you. I did a test piece with 3 coats of Helmsman satin and glued a small piece of carpet to it with Roberts 6700. I called the company that makes Roberts and of course they recommend no water sealing prior to application. I'll let you know if a few days how my test goes. I'll prob cut the board in half and see how hard it is to rip the carpet off 1 piece and then soak the other for a day or so and see what happens.


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## jigngrub

It may be too late now, but the urethane is very weak compared to the epoxy resin... and they both cost about the same.

This is after 2 coats of epoxy:







Here's a link to best priced epoxy I could find on the web, they have fast shipping and great service.

https://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html


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## Jay415

jigngrub said:


> It may be too late now, but the urethane is very weak compared to the epoxy resin... and they both cost about the same.
> 
> This is after 2 coats of epoxy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a link to best priced epoxy I could find on the web, they have fast shipping and great service.
> 
> https://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html


not too late yet. I only did a test piece. I thought epoxy resin would be more difficult to work with. Don't you have to kind of float/spread it on rather than paint it on?
My test seems to be holding up well. I am going to soak it in water a few days to give it a good wetness test. I don't think it should preform much different. My only concern now is the glue rated as water resistant and not water proof.
I left some glue on the board which was not covered by carpet to see how well it sticks to the spar urethane. I know it's gonna stick to the carpet! That's what it meant for! :lol: The glue stays the consistence almost like very thick sticky chewing gum. So it's almost like if a piece pulls free it will restick itself with some pressure. I'll update after my water test.


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## baseball_guy_99

I used Helsman Spar Urethane in my build. I bought a bucket of the Henry's Premium Outdoor Carpet Glue (because it was damaged and I got it for $5). I urethaned a piece of plywood and stuck a small piece of carpet to it. 3 days later after sitting in the sun, it peeled right back up. Then I read the back of the label and even called Henry. They said it would not stick to glossy surfaces. They said to lightly sand any glossy surface and it should work. 

I didn't feel like sanding so I bought some cans of 3m High Strength Adhesive. It has worked for me so far.


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## jigngrub

Jay415 said:


> jigngrub said:
> 
> 
> 
> It may be too late now, but the urethane is very weak compared to the epoxy resin... and they both cost about the same.
> 
> This is after 2 coats of epoxy:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a link to best priced epoxy I could find on the web, they have fast shipping and great service.
> 
> https://www.uscomposites.com/epoxy.html
> 
> 
> 
> not too late yet. I only did a test piece. I thought epoxy resin would be more difficult to work with. Don't you have to kind of float/spread it on rather than paint it on?
> My test seems to be holding up well. I am going to soak it in water a few days to give it a good wetness test. I don't think it should preform much different. My only concern now is the glue rated as water resistant and not water proof.
> I left some glue on the board which was not covered by carpet to see how well it sticks to the spar urethane. I know it's gonna stick to the carpet! That's what it meant for! :lol: The glue stays the consistence almost like very thick sticky chewing gum. So it's almost like if a piece pulls free it will restick itself with some pressure. I'll update after my water test.
Click to expand...


There's a thing about that, it's not just how well the glue sticks to the sealer... but also how well the sealer sticks to the wood.

I haven't found a waterproof glue yet, they're all water resistant... even the ones made especially for marine applications. This is one of the reasons I went with marine vinyl instead of carpet, it sheds water instead of absorbing it. Going with the vinyl will also cut way down on the mildew in the boat too, and that's a real good thing!


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## Jay415

ok Here's the results from my tests. looks like I'm gonna go with Contact Cement.
I haven't found the Helmsman Spar Urethane to be a problem at all. Holds to the wood well and glue sticks to it well. All test pieces were coated with 3 coats of Helmsman Spar Urethane letting each coat dry at least 8 hours and no sanding in between coats.

First test was with Roberts 6700 Outdoor Carpet Adhesive. I let it dry 3 days.





Then I cut it in half





The adhesive worked very well dry and I destroyed the carpet trying to pull it up and the backing stayed glued





The other half I soaked in water for about 3 hours to simulate fishing in the rain all day.





The Roberts 6700 soaked up water like a sponge.





And the strength was compromised. It had slight resistance, but nothing like the dry test.





One good thing is after letting it dry again the glue returned to the size and strength it was before. And the piece I peeled up re-glued itself down and the strength seemed to be just as strong as before.





Then I decided to try Dap Contact Cement Original. Which also claims only to be water resistant.





After coating both sides and letting them set up, adhesion was instant. Definitely no repositioning, but I knew that already. I have worked with it many times doing laminate. Dry strength was just as good as Roberts 6700 and would have destroyed the carpet and left the backing behind if I tried to remove it.





Again I soaked this piece for about 3 hours to simulate fishing in the rain all day.





After 3 hours soaking, the Dap contact cement is showing the same strength as when it was dry and the carpet backing is staying firmly attached to the plywood coated with Helmsman. Looks like Contact Cement is the Winner!


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## bobbyb

Jay

That was one excellent and detailed test - Thank you for sharing =D> . 

These results will eliminate any uncertainty in my mind when I re-deck (soon).

bobby


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## Hanr3

The contact cement also adheres to outdoor enamel (oil based) paint, and the outside enamel paint is specifically designed to protect wood 24/7/365 for decades. 

Excellent testing. 
Check my sig for a link to my build that includes pictures of my paint/cement carpeted floor. 

To save costs, check your local paint supplier for returned enamel paint. Color doesn't matter when the carpet will cover it.


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## lbursell

Yay!!!!!!!!
I used the DAP to secure my bunk carpets last year. I've had no problems whatsoever and now your testing makes me feel even better. Thanks for taking the time to do the testing and show your results.


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## jigngrub

The foam backing on carpet is the Devils lap dog! It's the weakest link in the carpet, glue, sealer application and helps retain any water/moisture that gets on the carpet.

You won't pull marine vinyl off like that when glued with cc.


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## Jay415

jigngrub said:


> The foam backing on carpet is the Devils lap dog! It's the weakest link in the carpet, glue, sealer application and helps retain any water/moisture that gets on the carpet.
> 
> You won't pull marine vinyl off like that when glued with cc.


True, but I'm not testing the strength of the carpet. I'm testing the strength of the adhesive. and if the carpet is pulled from the center not an edge, it doesn't separate like that.


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## Jay415

Ok after 32 hours of soaking the Contact Cement shows signs of failure. It did not separate on it's own though. It peeled of like a sticker. Unless the boat is submerged and I forget about it, Contact Cement should be fine. The white brush marks is the contact cement that was not covered by carpet and absorbed water.


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## Jay415

I just found Henry 663 locally. So I'm gonna give that a try. It was recommended to me originally and many have used it with success. I just couldn't find it. Until now that is.

Directions say water resistant after 5 days and roll with 75 lb roller. Both of which I didn't do with the Roberts. Maybe it needed that? Who knows? Rolling would keep the glue thinner and maybe increasing strength. More is not always better. 

I did have another thought though. One con of contact cement there is no resticking after wetness failure. The Roberts on the other hand restuck and regained strength after drying out. Once the carpet is down nobody's gonna be pulling on it to remove it. So I don't see any reason not to use Roberts either. I think it's now just down to preference of application and patience of time to properly setup.


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## Jay415

Henry 663 was the same as Roberts. Both are good and prob won't cause any problems unless you store your boat outside uncovered or fish a lot in the rain and don't let the boat dry out. These glues can't take heavy water for long periods.

I've decided to go with contact cement because it's an instant adhesion of the carpet after coating carpet and wood and letting them dry a 1/2 hour or so. Also I feel there will be less of a mess (no glue squishing out of the edges and such) and application is with a paint brush instead of a trowel. 

My project is in my signature. I'll update as soon as work is picture worthy.


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## Jay415

As I am getting ready to finally start carpeting. I went to my local hardware store that has everything! I always go there for those hard to find things. I never thought about looking for carpet adhesive there. Well as I'm waiting for the salesperson to fill my hardware order I took a stroll around the store and found the original glue I was looking for.

HENRY® 263 WeatherPro™ 
Outdoor Carpet Adhesive
https://www.wwhenry.com/content.aspx?id=127&View=Product&cID=79&pID=84

Quoted from site:


> *Waterproof after two hours*
> *Bonds To:*
> HENRY 263 WeatherPro Outdoor Carpet Adhesive bonds outdoor carpet and artificial turf to concrete, asphalt paving, abraded fiberglass substrates, *roughened aluminum boat decks, and exterior- or marine-grade plywood decking*


So it's made for what we are doing here!

Just for the hell of it I ran another quick test and it performed awesome!
Roberts and Henry's 663 absorbed water like a sponge after just 3 hours. I only let the Henry's 263 dry about 18 hours then soaked it in water for 14 about hours and it is the same as when it was dry! It repels water and is truly waterproof! Adhesion is great!

Henry's 263 dry time about 18 hours





Henry's 263 after soaking in water for 14 hours





This is what Roberts looked like after just 3 hours soaking in water






So my final decision on adhesive is to use both Henry's 263 and Contact cement. I made the descision out of ease of use and quick adhesion.

I will use Henry's 263 on the surface then lay the carpet roll and let dry for at least 24 hours. Then I use contact cement for the edge wrap. Using both products for the best way they perform.


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## Jay415

Henry's 263 soaked for 5 days! Holding strong!


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## blink

This is a great thread. I am definitely going to use the Henrys 263.

One question i had is, while reading the label on the Chapco (which is what they have at Lowes here), i saw that it said it not for use on treated or sealed surfaces.
So should i put my 3 coats of spar urethane on my plywood before carpeting, or not???


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## Jay415

They say that because they can't guarantee compatibility. I had no problem with 3 coats of spar urethane. All tests pieces were coated also. Adhesion is very good.


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## blink

Jay415 said:


> They say that because they can't guarantee compatibility. I had no problem with 3 coats of spar urethane. All tests pieces were coated also. Adhesion is very good.



sounds good. Thanks!


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## Lunatic

This info couldnt have come at a better time. thanks.


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## wihil

Tagged to remind myself to look for Henry's 263 when I get to that stage of the game!

Thanks for the great info!


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## Vermonster

Bouncing this one... 

Henry's 263 is getting hard to find... so if you planned on using it, you may want to 

Amazon has been out for a while now. I've ordered it twice online at various online hardware stores just to get refunded when they tell me it's out of stock and they have no idea when it will be back in. My local hardware store carries Henry/Ardex products, but they can't order the 263. They can get 663.

I actually had to call the manufacturer and find a local carpet supplier near me. They've placed an order for it, but again they don't know when or if it will come in.


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## MNHunter505

awesome post. so i guess the question is, if i cant get 263, what is the next bext thing? we might as well get that established since it doesnt look like 263 will always be an option. anymore tests done?


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## Vermonster

I actually had it come in through a local Carpet Shop! 

Call Henry Headquarters and ask for local suppliers that can order it (they can't sell it direct).

The W.W. Henry Company
400 Ardex Park Drive
Aliquippa, PA 15001

*800-232-4832*
724-203-8000

They were able to give me a couple local shops and the first one I called placed an order for 2 gallons, and it arrived in about a week. I would try that first.


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## MNHunter505

Vermonster said:


> I actually had it come in through a local Carpet Shop!
> 
> Call Henry Headquarters and ask for local suppliers that can order it (they can't sell it direct).
> 
> The W.W. Henry Company
> 400 Ardex Park Drive
> Aliquippa, PA 15001
> 
> *800-232-4832*
> 724-203-8000
> 
> They were able to give me a couple local shops and the first one I called placed an order for 2 gallons, and it arrived in about a week. I would try that first.



Roger that, thanks! In the meantime, I did some looking and the 263 is solvent based, so I am going to look around and see if I can't find a similiar solvent based adhesive. I will let you know what I find.


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## bcbouy

i used roberts 6700 glue and thompsons waterseal. i figured my carpet will need a change before the wood rots or de laminates.i store my boat in the heated garage so i really didn't worry about water. plus it will be easier to unscrew/remove the deck if i can pull up most of the carpet.


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## MNHunter505

Quick status update on this awesome thread Jay415 started. I swung by a local carpet shop and purchased Anchor 986. It's completely waterproof carpet adhesive. So I am hoping it will perform as well as Henry 263 in the water test. I was going to order the Henry 263 but the salesman told me about Anchor 986 and the fact that it is cheaper.

I will run the test tonight and let you know.


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## MNHunter505

I wanted to update this thread quick and let everyone know that if you can't find the Henry's, Anchor 986 will work too, it passed the water test and is completely waterproof.


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## kbush

Great test and thanks for the informative post! =D>


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## Lost Pole

L


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## Lost Pole

Dunno y that was posted.....

Thx for all the info posted here.


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## zrxfishing

Thanks!!


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