# What boat? Thickness of Alum? Hp?



## Geauxfish11 (Jan 1, 2014)

Hi all, this is my first post on the forum although I have been admiring all of your boats for quite sometime now. Your projects are truly amazing. 

I am in the market for a new boat. I currently have a bay boat and a tracker topper 14 with a 6hp johnson. I want to get something that is going to last and is going to get me to the fishing spots I have come to love visiting in the 1436. I need more space for when I go frogging and bow fishing. I frequently fish the marsh and hunt in shallow water. I want something that is 16ft and 46-50 inches wide with a flat bottom. I also want the bow to be square not pointed. I have looked at several boats and have found only a few that fit my needs. Alumacraft 1648 ncs, xpress 1650d, or get a custom made boat.
Questions:
1. How much does the increase in thickness of aluminum affect the boats draft? I have been so shallow in the 1436 that we literally dragged ourself through the mud using paddles. I don't want to be so heavy that I can't move the boat if I get stuck on a mud flat, but I also want to have the thickness that if I hit a stump or oysters at speed I won't be swimming. The alumacraft is .070 gauge, the xpress is .100, the custom made ones are typically .125 . What would you recommend?
2. I received a 15hp honda for christmas, I am going to try to bring it back and upgrade to a 25 or 30 hp. What speed can I expect to get with 2 people and a 25hp on the above mentioned boats? I would prefer to have a boat custom made so that I could have the piece of mind knowing that I will always be afloat. But I don't want to do this route if the thick aluminum will be to much weight for a 25 or 30 hp motor to push or in the case that it is too heavy to move off a mud flat. 
3. In the event that the dealer will not take the motor back (it has not been run at all tho) will a 15hp be able to push any of the boats mentioned? I am not trying to set any speed records I just want to get to the fishing hole in a fair amount of time. I've been running at 10mph in the boat I have now I would love to be able to run in the 20-30mph range. 

Thanks to all in advance.

Oh and if any of you know of a boat that would satisfy my needs please let me know.


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## DrNip (Jan 1, 2014)

Weldbilt has a 1648 that a either .08 or .1 thickness and in a short or long transom. It comes standard with 21" sides I believe. I also believe you can up the sides to 24" or so. Weld-Craft has one as well but only .1 thickness with only a long transom. It comes in 22" or 24" sides. Both companies might offer a 52" but unsure. Both companies have great prices with Weldbilt being the cheaper of the two. Both can customize however you like. I would go with a .1 if I were you.


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## stevesecotec02 (Jan 1, 2014)

I have an alumacraft 1648 ncs with a 25hp 2 stroke and with all my gear and batteries and 2 people each weighing 220lbs we can run 26mph. Mine is a mod v though. I really like the alumacraft for the price and durability. If you need something even more durable you need an all welded hull which will be a much heavier boat and require a larger motor for same performance.


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## wingsnhammers (Jan 2, 2014)

I'll Second Dr Nips Suggestion. Weldbilts are all aluminum (no wood) and have tons of options. A standard 1648 can be had with a flat nose in .80 and price will be similar to the Alumacraft 1648 NCS. The Weldbilt will be a little heavier, though.


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## chevyrulz (Jan 2, 2014)

1) gauge has a minimal affect on draft. motor weight, & the length/width of the hull are going to affect draft much more significantly. That & all the stuff on board like fuel tank, batteries, passengers, decoys, livewell, etc...

2) 1648 ncs with a 25 yamaha will go about 20-25 mph depending on the prop, fishing/hunting gear weight, and the weght of the 2 people

3) 1648 ncs with a 15 honda, prolly 15 mph or so depending on the same factors in #2 above


as mentioned, checkout weldbilt, backwoods landing is a good source I hear, although it's in Alabama. Here's their website https://www.backwoodslanding.com/smartdevices.html

or Alweld is another one to checkout

of course there's also G3, Triton, and War Eagle to name a few more welded hulls

Also, i wouldn't personally want a 1648 with a 15hp motor, that's not enough power in my opinion. Then again, I do have a 30 on a boat rated for a 15 lol


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## MrSimon (Jan 2, 2014)

Welcome to TinBoats!!

Are you only interested in new boats? If you would consider a used boat, there are a TON of used 1648 flat front jon boats floating around. They are usually pretty cheap. If you can find one that already has a motor, you can sell the motor and use your new one .... if you work it right, you could end up with a free boat and trailer.

You mentioned wanting something custom to make sure its safe. You definitely don't need to spend all that much money to get peace of mind. The kind of boat you are looking at is incredibly simple. Any leaks that a used boat would have can almost always be properly fixed quite easily. And even if the boat does leak, you aren't going to sink or anything like that. 99.999999% of boating accidents are not the fault of the boat itself.


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## turbotodd (Jan 16, 2014)

thickness will have VERY little affect on draft. Maybe 1/4" from the thin boat to the .125" boat. The difference is in the details. 

Typically welded boats won't be thinner than .080". Below that and they become harder to weld. That is also a consideration when looking at either a riveted boat or a welded boat that is .080" or thinner. If something cracks (which it will if it's that thin), it can be come a little more challenging to weld it properly, without burning through. Think of welding a tin can. A TIG makes it no problem really, but then you've got to find someone who has one. Most shops have a MIG with a spoolgun and the work good as long as there's some beef to weld on.

The thicker boats are 10x less flimsy. Experience speaking. I looked at a BUNCH of them 2 years ago when I bought mine. I was in the market. Most everything I looked at either had ribs that were WAY too tall or I didn't like the seating arrangement or I didn't like the sides. The ribs were commonly 4 or 5" tall. And if you put a floor in it that sits on the tops of the ribs, you lose 4 to 5" of space. Especially if the floor runs up the sides like some do (I think weldbilt does that but I can't remember the brands that I saw with that configuration). And the ones that I did like weren't available with standard seating. Keep in mind I'm in the duck hunting capital of the USA so about 85% of the aluminum boats are designed as duck boats and nothing more.

I ended up settling on a War Eagle boat. Reasons-the ribs are shorter, but every bit as strong as the taller ribs. The boat I got (548LDV) is .100" aluminum. With the floor, it weighs 340 lbs. Without it, it's 325 lbs, give or take. It's got a low deck in front which I love. Flotation under it. It floats level when swamped as long as it's not overloaded. I have "sunk" one years ago (left the plug out on purpose to see if they would live up to what they were advertised)--was a wrecked/totalled boat. They'll build it however you want it more or less. Sometimes the dealer says otherwise but I sell them and I bought one, and I wanted it my way and that's the way they built it at the factory. And I've had customers ask for oddball stuff...and if it's doable, they'll do it. The side effects of this boat is that it's fast, drafts shallower than my 1542 did (which was like 150 lbs), rides extremely smooth, and handled great. It's a good all-around boat. They make them in all popular sizes from 1436 to 2372 (check their website). I coulda got a 648 but the 16' boats require a horn among other things according to the coast guard and the fish and game commission. So I opted for the 548 and could not be happier.

Edge makes some nice boats too, in different sizes. The ribs on the Edge boats are longitudinal (they run fore and aft). They are FAST and run shallow. But they are duck boats and nothing more. I've tried to fish from one and really didn't think it was as comfortable as mine is. Close but not quite. Also doesn't ride nearly as smooth as the War Eagle does.

My old boat was a 1542 Grumman flat bottom. Riveted. .070" thickness, actually it varied depending on where I measured but that could've been just the paint. It ran well but it was a flimsy ill handling boat. And even though it was much lighter and narrower, it was slower than my War Eagle is, and did not take wake at all, not compared to what I have now. I ran a 548 War Eagle today on the lake and had 18"-24" swells (windy day) and was able to run wide open fairly easily, with a 50hp Yamaha. 37mph is about all it'd do. Mine with a big ol' heavy 4 stroke 25hp runs 28-30. Just doesn't accelerate as fast as that 50 does; but I'm not in a hurry anyway. I felt comfortable on the swells. The hull cut through and over them nicely-a little choppy at full speed but I didn't feel nervous at all. Compared to my old 1542 it was awesome. NO WAY I'd have even put my old 1542 in that water. 

just my experiences, FWIW.


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## chevyrulz (Jan 17, 2014)

[url=https://tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=338868#p338868 said:


> turbotodd » Today, 00:24[/url]"]the 16' boats require a horn among other things according to the coast guard and the fish and game commission.


Great info you provided Todd. I do have one caveat. I'm not sure if this horn thing is universal for all 50 states. I have a small whistle on my boat keys to comply with this law & I think it's required no matter the length of the vessel. I've had to produce a "noise making device" for the game warden before when I was hunting out of my 1436. I almost handed him my duck calls. Also on my 21' boat, one game warden told me the horn actually didn't comply with the regulation because it wouldn't work without battery power, he gave me a written warning and a free whistle for my key chain.


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## Geauxfish11 (Jan 18, 2014)

All of this is great info. Definitely makes the decision on alum thickness easy.

Todd will War Eagle make a square bow? 

I looked into Weldbilt and had my mind made up but then I ran across a series of reviews talking about broken welds and weak transoms. If you have personal experience and truly believe weldbilt is a solid boat then I will look again but unless I can get some positive feedback they are out of the running. 

I managed to get the 25hp Evinrude E-tec. I talked to Bubba at Gator Tail boats he said if I put it on their 1648 I could expect to run upper 20s. On one hand I hate to spend $10,000 on a boat built for a mud motor but on the other hand I will want to get a mud motor eventually but that will be several years.

So let me just lay out exactly what I want. 1648 Square bow, .100 or .125, 5' high front deck, split rear seats or a rear folding deck (check gator tail website for example), bow grab rails, and a bow hatch. Any more suggestions would be very appreciated.


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## DrNip (Jan 19, 2014)

Good choice in the 25 hp etec. Going to purchase me one tomorrow.


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## turbotodd (Jan 29, 2014)

Geauxfish11 said:


> Todd will War Eagle make a square bow?




I don't think so. It wouldn't be a bad idea to call them though. They have the Duracraft line, which is their lesser expensive boat, and then the true War Eagle line which is known for it's excellent smooth and dry ride (which I can personally attest to). Part of the ride quality with the Eagles is the bow-which is pointed and cuts through flooded timber and wake quite a bit better than a flat nosed boat will. The Ward family bought all of Duracraft's tooling and they are building Duracraft boats now. I saw some 1436's and some 1542's on a transporter and was actually impressed with them given the cost. They were right in line with, say, WeldBilt. Absolutely nothing wrong with weldbilt but I just didn't like the rib height. 

War Eagle will build the WE boats almost as custom as you want them, but as far as getting a totally custom hull, I am not sure. Wouldn't be a bad idea to contact a dealer or war eagle themselves. Great folks they are!


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## Bassbully (Feb 3, 2014)

Although I have not been out in my 648 LDSV the thing is built like a tank. I am also amazed at the kind of cult like following these boats have and they retain their value and are quite sought after.


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