# Is my motor done?????? New Motor!!!!!



## Troutman3000 (Jun 18, 2010)

Think I found the culprit of my motor problems. The engine started acting up again today. It was the first time I ran it without the gumout in the tank so at first I thought it was the carbs. Well then I ran it at home and found this. 

A bolt broke off because it was rusted, and I found water was already leaking where it was supposed to make a seal. Now half of the bolt is still in the motor. There is a steady stream from the bolt hole and the gasket. Is there any hope or am I just stuck. Could I use jbweld?

Any help would be much appreciated.


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## Quackrstackr (Jun 18, 2010)

Take it somewhere and let them get the rest of the bolt out. Shouldn't be that big of a deal.

They may have to drill it out and helicoil it.


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 18, 2010)

I guess the real question is whether its worth sinking any more money into this POS motor. It looks like it is almost shot and has been in the salt water.


Jason


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## WTL (Jun 18, 2010)

Of course drilling it is the best solution if you can get the bolt out, but that can be difficult. I have had the nearly the same bolt on my motor break off, although in my case it did not leak. I filled it full of RTV sealant and its held for a couple years. Motor runs ok, little wheezy sometimes but as long as it runs I'm not gonna rock the boat. I think it wouldn't be a bad idea for you to go with the least intrusive idea first, which is sealing it with JB or RTV, if it works, great, if not they can easily drill that out too.

Any motor that runs or did run recently isn't a POS except by comparison. Whether or not you are in position to spend money on a better motor is just up to your bottom line. I do know that there are tons of people who run and swear by older OMCs because they are pretty reliable and very easy to work with. I have worked on my current motor, which is a 86 johnson, and mid 80s merc and a later 90s mariner and an early 60s evinrude and the merc and the mariner where way more difficult than the old but simple johnson.


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## free jonboat (Jun 18, 2010)

u might wanna take that 2 a lawnmower shop due 2 the fact that it is aircooled and has a lawnmower-like powerhead. i know most marine shops dont take aircooled engines because i took my gamefisher motor to 4 or 5 different marine shops and got pretty much the same answer at all of them. but thats just a FEW shops AROUND HERE so up ur way could b completely different, i dont know all i know is what they told me and that was "most marine shops dont work on aircooled motors".


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## redbug (Jun 18, 2010)

free jonboat said:


> u might wanna take that 2 a lawnmower shop due 2 the fact that it is aircooled and has a lawnmower-like powerhead. i know most marine shops dont take aircooled engines because i took my gamefisher motor to 4 or 5 different marine shops and got pretty much the same answer at all of them. but thats just a FEW shops AROUND HERE so up ur way could b completely different, i dont know all i know is what they told me and that was "most marine shops dont work on aircooled motors".


I think you missed the part about the steady stream of water coming from the bolt.
I would at least take it to a shop and ask for a ballpark figure about drilling the bolt out


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## C.U. Fishin (Jun 18, 2010)

I had a similar problem on one of my old outboards. I took the whole cover off and found that there was room to drill the bolt out and tap new threads for the next larger bolt, not pretty but it works.


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## free jonboat (Jun 18, 2010)

redbug said:


> free jonboat said:
> 
> 
> > u might wanna take that 2 a lawnmower shop due 2 the fact that it is aircooled and has a lawnmower-like powerhead. i know most marine shops dont take aircooled engines because i took my gamefisher motor to 4 or 5 different marine shops and got pretty much the same answer at all of them. but thats just a FEW shops AROUND HERE so up ur way could b completely different, i dont know all i know is what they told me and that was "most marine shops dont work on aircooled motors".
> ...



ohhhh. didnt pay attention 2 that part, i was texting, talking 2 my mom, eating nachos, and reading this #-o


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 19, 2010)

Tried to loosen the rest of the bolts. Had about a 50% success rate. Its really hard to get to the bottom ones so I guess this motor will be salvaged. The carbs are brand new so maybe I can sell a few parts for my new motor fund. Until then my boat will sit in the garage lonley.


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## KMixson (Jun 19, 2010)

If you have a steady stream of water coming from the hole the gasket needs to be replaced also. I would take it in and have a new gasket and new bolts installed into it. If that bolt rusted in two I would not trust that the others are not in the same shape.


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## bobberboy (Jun 19, 2010)

My dad was a farmer and like most farmers tried everything short of going to the shop to keep things going. He could fix anything with bailing wire and electrical tape. He swore by the use of brake fluid to get rusted or stuck bolts loose. He always had an oil can of it around and squirted a liberal amount on the offending nut/bolt. He would usually give another dose or two and 24 hours to do its thing. This or another solvent to help loosen the broken bolt and an easy-out might do the trick and is worth trying before you give it up or take it to the shop. WTL's advice _Any motor that runs or did run recently isn't a POS except by comparison_ is good.


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## flintcreek (Jun 19, 2010)

You may have to pull the power head to get to the bottom bolts...but this is just about 6 bolts on most motors. It is worth a little more work if it has been running pretty good. Drill it out and tap it to fit a bolt 1 size bigger....you loose nothing if you are thinking about parting it out any way. I think with a little time you will have a good usable motor again. Along with plenty of WD40 or transmission fluid...Good Luck.

Flintcreek

Flintcreek


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 21, 2010)

flintcreek said:


> You may have to pull the power head to get to the bottom bolts...but this is just about 6 bolts on most motors. It is worth a little more work if it has been running pretty good. Drill it out and tap it to fit a bolt 1 size bigger....you loose nothing if you are thinking about parting it out any way. I think with a little time you will have a good usable motor again. Along with plenty of WD40 or transmission fluid...Good Luck.
> 
> Flintcreek
> 
> Flintcreek




How do you tap it for a larger bolt?


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 21, 2010)

How much is this thing worth? I have no idea and I have two guys coming over to look at it today.

$200 sound fair?


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## Loggerhead Mike (Jun 21, 2010)

i'd say 200 and go from there

drilling and tapping a bolt is not all that difficult, esp with the retractors and diff tools out now.. I'd say your looking at an hour labor charge from a shop

if you want to try and tackle it soak the bolt in pb blaster for 2 days, giving it a new squirt every so many hours. Go get you some left handed drill bits and you've got a chance at getting it out


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 21, 2010)

Loggerhead Mike said:


> i'd say 200 and go from there
> 
> drilling and tapping a bolt is not all that difficult, esp with the retractors and diff tools out now.. I'd say your looking at an hour labor charge from a shop
> 
> if you want to try and tackle it soak the bolt in pb blaster for 2 days, giving it a new squirt every so many hours. Go get you some left handed drill bits and you've got a chance at getting it out




Not really worth my time. Im ready for something a little more reliable that would be easier to work on. I need something with less issues. If I can get 200 i'll take it.


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## gregk9 (Jun 21, 2010)

Troutman3000 said:


> Not really worth my time. Im ready for something a little more reliable that would be easier to work on. I need something with less issues. If I can get 200 i'll take it.



I hear this! Take the money and run!


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## WTL (Jun 21, 2010)

What year is it? Its an OMC right?


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## thudpucker (Jun 21, 2010)

What Make, Size and HP is that motor?


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 22, 2010)

Early eighties Evinrude 25hp Long Shaft Tiller


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## Loggerhead Mike (Jun 22, 2010)

> Not really worth my time. Im ready for something a little more reliable that would be easier to work on. I need something with less issues. If I can get 200 i'll take it.



lol i know exactly what'cha mean. i finially got fed up with working on my stuff and sold it all. When the back pocket gets fat again im going for something new(r)


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 22, 2010)

Loggerhead Mike said:


> > Not really worth my time. Im ready for something a little more reliable that would be easier to work on. I need something with less issues. If I can get 200 i'll take it.
> 
> 
> 
> lol i know exactly what'cha mean. i finially got fed up with working on my stuff and sold it all. When the back pocket gets fat again im going for something new(r)



wanna buy a rude :lol:


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 22, 2010)

Having trouble finding a new motor that is affordable. I dont want to miss teh entire season waiting in a deal so I have come back around to the idea of fixing this beast. Anybody have an idea of what I need to do to get it fixed and how much it will cost. The only bolts I didnt remove (break off) are the ones below the cowling where you cant get to them. How in the hell would you drill those out?


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## WTL (Jun 23, 2010)

You might just have to pull the powerhead. I would try and get the powerhead on a drill press, cause you are going to want to perfectly center the bit on those bolts to get them out and a regular handheld drill will drive you nuts doing it. Like I said, I have avoided doing that even though I am almost in the same boat (mine just doesnt leak where the bolts broke, thankfully). 

PS, if I were in georgia, I'd give you 200 for that. Dont take less.


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## KMixson (Jun 23, 2010)

How many bolts broke off while trying to get them out? If it was just one or maybe two you may be able to get a new gasket to seal if the broken bolts were not next to each other. If you can get the cover off you may be able to a better grip on the old bolt or bolts to remove them after getting some penetrate on them to soak overnight. If you are in a real tight squeeze you may be able to leave the broken bolt in the block and drill a smaller hole into the center of it and tap it. Be sure to leave a little bit of the old bolt protruding out of the block to act as an alignment pin and to keep the new gasket from sliding out. Then you can use a smaller diameter bolt to hold the cover on. A 10-32 machine screw will hold better than nothing. That may work since it is not the head bolts you are dealing with. I would not try that on head bolts. It looks like the cover you are dealing with is just a water jacket.


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 26, 2010)

Out of the ones that were removed I didnt break 3. So the rest are broke off and I dont have the skills to remove powerheads and stuff. I wouldnt want to spend more than a couple hundred bucks to get it going again, if I could find someone to fix it for that I would gladly pay it. 

It seems finding a used tiller long shaft outboard here in Georgia is nearly impossible unless I want to give my first born for it. I am getting depressed while my boat sits in the garage and is not being used.

Thanks,

Jason


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## Brine (Jun 26, 2010)

send bassboy a pm


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## Troutman3000 (Jun 26, 2010)

Brine said:


> send bassboy a pm




I have talked at length with him about this motor, think I am just gonna get a new one. He thinks the chances are slim for repair.


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## Whoopbass (Jun 26, 2010)

If I remember right you have to remove the powerhead to get the lower cowl off. Removing the powerhead most likely will not be easy since they seem to get frozen onto the lower section. It takes a long pry bar and different angles to get it to go.
I wonder if you can have that cover welded shut? If you have to, install the 3 bolts back in then clean the piss out of the cover with a wire brush and seal everything up with something. Worth a shot and if the motor bites it sell the lower unit, prop, tiller handle, starter and whatever else you can salvage on ebay.

I had good success removing stuck bolts by soaking them with lube then slowly working the bolt back and forth spraying more lube each time. If I could get the bolt to loosen 1/8"-1/4" I would spray it then tighten it back up and then loosen. Each time they would seem to get looser. You have to go slow and take your time so the bolt doesn't heat up. 
Left handed drill bits are suppose to be the best thing at removing broken bolts.


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## 65tuxedo (Jun 27, 2010)

Since the hole where the bolt broke is so accessible, just drill into it and use an easyout. Very simple, I do it all the time. Just finished doing a broken bolt in an exhaust manifold. You can get them at any hardware store or Lowes, etc. Costs a couple of bucks.


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## bassboy1 (Jun 27, 2010)

Whoopbass said:


> If I remember right you have to remove the powerhead to get the lower cowl off. Removing the powerhead most likely will not be easy since they seem to get frozen onto the lower section. It takes a long pry bar and different angles to get it to go.


We've emailed back at length about that engine, and the above paragraph is what worries me. Powerheads love to freeze themselves to the midsection anyway, and the condition of his motor (remember, he bought it from a saltwater angler) doesn't look promising for getting much of anything loose. I'd be worried about how much else (bolt wise) would be damaged by attempting to remove the head. I don't know about that particular motor, but I've pulled the heads on some that are just a PITA to even get to the bolts, period. 



> I wonder if you can have that cover welded shut?


Doubt it. Solely due to what's under that cover. Once you pop the cover, you find a gasket, a plate, and another identical gasket. One gasket keeps water out of the guts of the motor, the other keeps water from leaking out from leaking out the cover. Because of the need for the internal gasket, I'm afraid welding it would be out of the question, as while it would certainly stop the leak on the outside, and no longer require the outer gasket, it would destroy the inner (important), gasket. Plus, I think the powerhead would still have to be removed, as I don't think one could gain access to the bottom without it. I know that there is no way I could, even with the smallest of water cooled TIG torches. 


If he found the right guy to remove the bolts, that would be an possible option, as for the right person, either removing them, or worse case scenario, drilling them out, and either retapping for a larger size, or installing a helicoil wouldn't be too costly. However, I don't know anyone that fits the bill, and while I could probably finagle some of them out with heat, I am not really capable of much else. I've never had much luck at all with easy outs. Left handed drill bits are better, but again, no guarantees there. Plus, the powerhead would need to come off, which from what I've seen of his motor, doesn't sound like fun. 

The last thing that worries me is that often, when the outer gasket leaks, the inner one does too. He described a few symptoms the motor had last trip, same time he noticed the water leaking, and while they could be symptoms of a few different problems, they did match an internal water leak, as well. 

The way I look at it, the motor can often be worth more for parts than it is as a runner, so in the long run, he may end up ahead by buying a used, but better condition engine, and selling this one as parts (gearcase, prop, tiller, electric starter, etc, usually fetch pretty good money, as people damage gearcases all the time, and lotsa people are interested in converting to tiller, or to electric start). The scare I see here is judging by the condition of this engine, this may not be the last problem it has, or worse yet, this may not be the last simple repair turned complicated because of the corroded bolt issue.


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## RBuffordTJ (Jul 2, 2010)

I have learned something recently about a boat.

BOAT stands for Break Out Another Thousand.

Bufford


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## Troutman3000 (Jul 3, 2010)

RBuffordTJ said:


> I have learned something recently about a boat.
> 
> BOAT stands for Break Out Another Thousand.
> 
> Bufford



Thats what my step dad keeps saying :LOL2: , and the happiest day of a boat owners life is when they buy the boat and then sell it!!!!!! :mrgreen:


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## Troutman3000 (Jul 3, 2010)

Got a new to me motor. Picked up a 25hp 1976 Johnson Seahorse. It has all the original paont and most of the decals and stickers, its in great shape. But its not a motor unless it gives me problems, so after getting it home I noticed the tiller handle was stripped. Pulled the gears off and there was a sheared pin, I tried to repair it to no avail. (insert heroic theme song) Bassboy to the rescue.

Bassboy fixed my gear and I headed to his house so he could teach me a little about my motor. This guy knows his stuff, he had me running and idling smooth in less than 30 mins. I also got to take a look at his antique motor collection which was very cool to say the least.

Bassboy also showed me a recessed trolling motor tray that he had welded and powder coated, it looked great! From what I understand they will be for sale soon for 80 bux. I'll be buying one I know that.

Thanks Again Bassboy! (Dawson)

Notice how someone installed the extender shaft on what used to be a short shaft motor.


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## Deadmeat (Jul 3, 2010)

One of the things I love reading about on this forum is when one tinboater helps another, not just with advice but actually pitches in to help fix a problem. Thanks, Bassboy, for helping him and for all the sound advice you've given us all when we've run up on a question we didn't know the answer to.


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