# I"M BAAACK ........



## scubapro820 (Oct 14, 2012)

I had a wild summer this year, ive been very busy in fact. Had a son on june 30th and stuff but im ready for the next project! Earlier this year I had a build with a tigershark1000 on a 14' (actually 13'9'') yamaha pump etc, got it dialed in and now it does 42mph on glassy calm days 37 all day long wind current etc, the boat has been a wonder ever since my first failure ( junk engine) no problems 100+ hours . but im not happy with it , or at least entirely, i want to stretch my hull in length re inforce it and add a row of seats reduce the profile of my topper. my hull is rare 1961 or 2 blue star superchief or 140 model so im not sure i will have any option other than using my own materiels and building experience. I was thinking about adding 4' total length and cutting it in the middle area where the hull has no weird taper or geometry action going on . ideas anyone? rail materiel source rib sources and other stuff boat builders use for the (skeleton of the boat? i was thinking of getting a junk boat to splice in keel section etc.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 14, 2012)

Glad to hear the boat's working out for you! Not sure about a source for those extruded aluminum shapes...but if you find out, let me know. 

We are planning another build next year, we will be building our own hull with 3/16" aluminum, with UHMW panels, and we plan to use a Sea Doo 4 tec intercooled, supercharged engine with 215 HP. Probably around 14-16 feet in length, and about a 5 foot beam. But obviously, we'll need to find some of the extruded shapes to do some of the hull fabrication with.


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## scubapro820 (Oct 14, 2012)

I was thinking about finding a similar or same junk boat for the special molded parts and cast stuff, then the rest im going to use a large piece of sheet metal and a large break press to make the extension


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## PSG-1 (Oct 15, 2012)

When I bought my 16 foot dura craft, I actually had intended to scrap the boat, and use all the channels, etc, for doing repairs to other boats....because of the corrosion on the hull. But then I decided to turn it into a jetboat, which was an excellent choice! :mrgreen: 

As for the press brake, if you don't have access to one, you can fabricate a redneck brake pretty easy. You need 2 pieces of thick angle iron, like at least 3/8x 2" 

Make a rectangular frame out of some I-beam, then, weld one piece of angle, with the V oriented straight up... to the lower part of the frame, this will be your 'die' 

For the other piece of angle, your 'ram'... you make a set of guides, where it can slide up and down the vertical frame members in a track, something like C-channel welded to the verticals, with a piece of square tube welded to the end of the angle iron. 

Weld some plates across the V of your ram, this will give locations to place the bottle jacks, and it also keeps the angle rigid. Then, use a set of bottle jacks, or, if you want to be lazy, use an air-hydraulic jack like my brake uses. You can also rig some heavy springs, so when you let pressure off the jack, the ram retracts upward. 

As the ram of the bottle jack presses against the upper frame member, it forces the jack down, which drives the ram down into the die, making the bend in your sheet metal. 

If you're only using one jack, and the brake bed is large, you'll have to move the jack along the length and fine-tune your bend.

I've built a couple of redneck brakes, they are quite handy to have around the shop. And if you build it stout enough, not only will it bend sheet metal, it will bend heavy stuff, too. I can bend 1/4" X 4" steel flat bar in my brake. Try that with a standard press brake!


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## scubapro820 (Oct 17, 2012)

I was thinking that id maybe make it just like the manufacturer did , a wide flat keel section about 4 ft wide then bending and lap jointing the curved sides to the keel part. all rivits, not certain of the approach yet still thinking about it i guess, i could also use a rose bud and maybe make my bends by softening the aluminum but idk how soft it stays?


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## PSG-1 (Oct 17, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> I was thinking that id maybe make it just like the manufacturer did , a wide flat keel section about 4 ft wide then bending and lap jointing the curved sides to the keel part. all rivits, not certain of the approach yet still thinking about it i guess, i could also use a rose bud and maybe make my bends by softening the aluminum but idk how soft it stays?




I'd be cautious about using a rosebud to heat aluminum to bend it. Heating aluminum makes it more susceptible to cracking and corrosion. I think you'd be better off with the redneck brake, or having someone with a large brake do the bending.


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## scubapro820 (Oct 17, 2012)

yeah I dont think the heat idea sounds good anymore, im also trying to hypothesise how the boat will handle going from 13'9'' to 17'9'' especially over medium chop currently the boat rides very rough in 12'' chop , i know steering is going to take a hit but i feel like the boat should be far more stable in the water over all im going to look into photchop to see if i can post my ideas


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## PSG-1 (Oct 17, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> yeah I dont think the heat idea sounds good anymore, im also trying to hypothesise how the boat will handle going from 13'9'' to 17'9'' especially over medium chop currently the boat rides very rough in 12'' chop , i know steering is going to take a hit but i feel like the boat should be far more stable in the water over all im going to look into photchop to see if i can post my ideas



I don't think your steering will 'take a hit' 

In fact, the extra length should make it a little heavier in the bow, which means it should pivot even sharper. Being a little more nose-heavy might mean it will ride smoother in chop, it's hard to say on that one. 

But as far as cutting and splicing in the middle, I would use 2 pieces of square aluminum tube, placed on either side of the cut area. You'll need a piece of tubing to go across the width of the floor, and then a piece to go up the side of each gunwale, so, you're looking at 6 total pieces. Cut/notch, and weld the tubing to follow the angle of the gunwale, and the angle of the keel of the boat, if it has any V. 

Once you have a good fit, weld the tube framing in place to the hull, on either side of where you will cut. Then cut the boat. The tubing being welded in place before cutting, will prevent the hull from splaying apart as it's cut, and it will give you an attachment point for your splice piece.


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## scubapro820 (Oct 17, 2012)

I guess Ill just have to do it and find out, btw love the swamp vids.... you totally should have jumped your boat over the beaver dam lol jk. Here in minnesota if you want to risk very fast cold water you can keep boating mine is sitting till spring which is why i want to mod it. you see here they open the dams and drop the river to its minimum to play pre catch up for the spring . I am located on the first controlled section of the big muddy and im as far as barge traffic goes, so when they open em up the wide shallow river moves fast! this part is also fed by tons of creeks sloughs and backwaters that i grew up on, this summer i want to get a go pro and make some vids of my cab taking the low hanging branches as I blast past ( my passengers dont have to watch their head lol) it should be a good rush !


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## PSG-1 (Oct 17, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> I guess Ill just have to do it and find out, btw love the swamp vids.... you totally should have jumped your boat over the beaver dam lol jk.



20 years ago, I probably would have had the balls to try it. It could probably be done by placing 2 logs, like skids on a trailer, to ramp across the dam. But again, I'm not as brave as I used to be! Knowing my luck, I'd get over to the impounded side, and then not be able to get back over, and have to spend the night in the swamp with the mosquitoes. 





> Here in minnesota if you want to risk very fast cold water you can keep boating mine is sitting till spring which is why i want to mod it. you see here they open the dams and drop the river to its minimum to play pre catch up for the spring . I am located on the first controlled section of the big muddy and im as far as barge traffic goes, so when they open em up the wide shallow river moves fast!



Sounds like the Great PeeDee river up around Cheraw, SC. There are drastic fluctuations in the water levels of the PeeDee, depending on how much water they let out. 




> this part is also fed by tons of creeks sloughs and backwaters that i grew up on, this summer i want to get a go pro and make some vids of my cab taking the low hanging branches as I blast past ( my passengers dont have to watch their head lol) it should be a good rush !





LMAO, yeah, that curve came up much faster than I was expecting, and the fallen tree in the middle of the river didn't help. #-o That was definitely NOT the route I intended to take through there, I found another route, the hard way. But on a side note, I absolutely love the 4 stroke MR-1 engine, I have taken this boat places that I would NEVER have trusted it before, and I'm amazed at the gas mileage and cruise range that it gets.

As far as running rivers with limbs, having a cabin on your boat, will protect people's noggins from branches, etc, but, you also have to be careful about those larger low-lying limbs, those can REALLY do a number on a T-top or a cabin! :shock: 

Looking forward to seeing some video of your local rivers! 8)


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## scubapro820 (Dec 5, 2012)

its december and its not very cold and no snow Ive had my boat winterizedd for 2 months! im getting ancy and wanna go out on the river while its low with no ice its depressing no boating poor hunting season no snow for snowmobiling! anybody have any sweet project ideas?


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## PSG-1 (Dec 5, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> its december and its not very cold and no snow Ive had my boat winterizedd for 2 months! im getting ancy and wanna go out on the river while its low with no ice its depressing no boating poor hunting season no snow for snowmobiling! anybody have any sweet project ideas?




How about mounting the drive system from a snowmobile into a flat bottom boat? Where the track system would be recessed into a tunnel in the hull, with just the bottom side of the track sticking out, so it's like a surface drive.

I've seen people run snowmobiles on water, but snowmobiles don't float too well :shock: But what if you put it into a boat? Not only could it run across the water, but if you hit a sandbar, you could blast across it, or so I would think. But perhaps you would need 2 snowmobile tracks, with an independent drive for each, like a skid loader, where you can push one lever forward more that the other to turn that direction, or lock them in opposite corners to spin on a dime.

The reason I haven't tried it myself, is there aren't any snowmobiles in coastal SC, so, we don't have any surplus ones sitting around for me to buy and cannibalize. That, and I also wonder how well a track would actually hold up running over sandbars and the occasional shoal consisting of coarse sand/ground oyster shell mixture.

But it's an idea I would love to see someone try.


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## scubapro820 (Dec 6, 2012)

The limiting issue with using a sled is water going full circle around the track, but fortunately for us there is an infinate variety of different tracks to experiment with . I think it woult actually be fairly straight foreward to construct a tunnel and a drive, plus you can skip many componants of a skid on a sled ie: bogie wheels, shocks torsion springs etc but you would be still be talking about 2 engines 4 clutches 2 belts 2 jackshafts chaincases skip brakes. but it would be f'ing awesome !!!!!! i wonder how fast it might go !! i imagine if its done correctly it could be on and off water not just water, snow ice mud dry land! think maybe flush track with only the lugs or paddles of the track protruding. flat bottom would be best for this


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## PSG-1 (Dec 6, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> The limiting issue with using a sled is water going full circle around the track, but fortunately for us there is an infinate variety of different tracks to experiment with .




I'm thinking a track with longer blades, so they hook up good with the water. As for the water trying to go full circle around the track, I'm sure there's got to be a way to combat this. But then again, it doesn't seem to be a problem for snowmobiles running across water, at least from what I can see. At least, not in short runs. It would be interesting to see what happens after a mile or so, would the track load up with water so bad that it starts bogging down?




> I think it woult actually be fairly straight foreward to construct a tunnel and a drive,



I'm thinking a rectangular hole cut in the hull, with an inset box for the track, with a taper at the forward and rear ends. And then building the box in a way to be able to install and remove the track system, as well as some pillow block bearings for the shafts, where they'd protrude from the box, and either have a pulley with teeth, or a chain and sprocket drive, not sure which would be better. 





> plus you can skip many componants of a skid on a sled ie: bogie wheels, shocks torsion springs etc but you would be still be talking about 2 engines 4 clutches 2 belts 2 jackshafts chaincases skip brakes. but it would be f'ing awesome !!!!!!




Wouldn't it, though?!!! :idea: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :idea: 


Sooooo, when do we start on this? LMAO! 

Seriously, man, I'd love to see somebody build one of these, and I'd be happy to be part of the 'think tank' to build such a project. I've tossed the idea around with my buddy that helped me build the jetboat, we've talked about it for a few years, but never got around to actually building it. I'd love to see someone actually do what we talked about.







> i wonder how fast it might go !! i imagine if its done correctly it could be on and off water not just water, snow ice mud dry land! think maybe flush track with only the lugs or paddles of the track protruding. flat bottom would be best for this




Absolutely. A completely flat bottom, with a 0 degree deadrise, unlike my Duracraft jetboat, which has a 12 degree deadrise, this boat needs to be a "flat bottom girl". Not even strakes, just make it from 1/8 flat sheet aluminum.

As to the speed, judging from the videos I've seen of people running snowmobiles on water, I would say you ought to be able to get AT LEAST 30 MPH. Now, this is just a S.W.A.G., the actual results may be a little slower, or much faster. Hard to say. But yeah, mounted in such a way that the track is right at flush, with only the paddles or lugs sticking out.

I don't know exactly what the tread on a snow track looks like, but if you could find one that was shaped like a bulldozer track, with rear-cupped blades that run across the full width of the track, I think that would give the best results for grabbing traction on land, as well as water.

Basically, folks, this would be the equivalent of an amphibious vehicle, for civilian use!! :wink: :idea: 
Even BADDER than a jetboat!!! Our jets are kicka$$ boats, but let's face it, they don't run across dry land too well, at least, not for very long! LOL


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## Novicaine (Dec 12, 2012)

I've had the same thoughts about a track driven boat.
I think the top (return) track would be ok because it would be out of the water flow and cavitate, which is good. 
There's a video on YouTube of an amphibious car driven by two tracks that hits 60 mph if I remember right. But it is built more like a tank with side tracks not a track under it.
It'd be an interesting experiment for sure... 
Ps last winter, with the sparse snowfall, you could hardly give away older/project snowmobiles around here...


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## bretr (Dec 16, 2012)

how about two large screw shaped pontoons with vareyable speed drive and a belt drive inbetween https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBjlSJf4274


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## PSG-1 (Dec 16, 2012)

I think the military experimented with this idea a long time ago, as well.

Seems do-able, but kinda slow.


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## scubapro820 (Dec 16, 2012)

what psg and i were discussing were is a light weight no displacement while moving design like a skipping stone that is propelled ideally a design that moves like a snowmobile over water but floats when stopped. i think this would be an aquatic machine only with limited beaching ability. through swampy muddy areas also. I think this is best achieved with track speed unlike the tanks and other tracked swimming vehicles. I might have come up with the stuff to do the project in the future too and ive been thinking seriously about actually doing this


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## scubapro820 (Dec 16, 2012)

https://youtu.be/AApGZECbHwU like this


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## PSG-1 (Dec 16, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> https://youtu.be/AApGZECbHwU like this




Holy #$*!!! Now THAT'S what I'm talking about!!! =D> =D> :mrgreen: 8) 

Well, based on these videos, I'd say that it's pretty obvious that the track drive system CAN run long distances over water, without the track bogging down from loading.

Sooooo, when do we start the project?

If I had access to some snowmobiles, I'd have already tried it, but again, here in coastal South Carolina, we don't have many snowmobiles, LOL


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## Novicaine (Dec 20, 2012)

Here is the Fast Track vehicle.... fairly fast on land and water. But I don't think it'd handle rocky shallow rivers. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWKbS99fBH4


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## PSG-1 (Dec 20, 2012)

Awesome boat. A little slow on the water, actually looks faster on land. I want to see if I can achieve the opposite effect with my design, fast on water, but still able to move at a good clip crossing a dry shoal at low tide.


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## scubapro820 (Dec 24, 2012)

That thing was neat!! when I get a chance i will draft my idea for this project.... although at the moment im in the process of building a new house so I wont be able to afford to build it anytime soon. iva actually been thinking of doing more to the boat I have now Im not happy with 38-42mph anymore I think ive come up with some ideas to achieve 50mph

1 aluminum tigershark 900 engine mounting bracket vs the 45lb 3/8'' thick steel plate one
2 agm or L-Ion cell under 10lbs vs the 50lb lead acid marine starting 1000cca bat I have.
3 the stupid half arsed engine box I made bc I was broke is made of wood will be replaced with an aluminum compartment
4 reduce pilot house profile be 12'' 
5 send impeller to impros for a custom pitch still have the top 1/4 of my throttle that just gives me 7800 rpm with no speed increase
6 mess with the water pickup design 

if that doesnt get me 50 im switching from a skat trak swirl to a straight cut design for top end I think that the swirl costs me 3+ mph 
I can ditch 100lbs and alot of wind resistance I think what do you guys think?


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## PSG-1 (Dec 24, 2012)

scubapro820 said:


> That thing was neat!! when I get a chance i will draft my idea for this project.... although at the moment im in the process of building a new house so I wont be able to afford to build it anytime soon. iva actually been thinking of doing more to the boat I have now Im not happy with 38-42mph anymore I think ive come up with some ideas to achieve 50mph
> 
> 1 aluminum tigershark 900 engine mounting bracket vs the 45lb 3/8'' thick steel plate one




I never compared the weight between the steel mounting plate and the aluminum one, but the 2 were interchangeable between the 900 and the 1000, the motor mount holes are in the same positions, and the holes in the plate that bolt it to the engine are exactly the same. I do know that the aluminum plate is quite heavy and thick, though, but I'm not sure about its exact weight.






> 3 the stupid half arsed engine box I made bc I was broke is made of wood will be replaced with an aluminum compartment



It'll be more durable, and lighter in weight. If you form it by braking, the bends will give added strength. If not, then using some aluminum angle welded to the inside will help stiffen the structure.




> 4 reduce pilot house profile be 12''



This will make a difference. I have a T-top that I use on my jetboat in cold weather, it has a full-height windshield, as well as side window panels, there is at least a 2-3 MPH difference in the top end when compared to the standard-height windshield I usually have on the boat (4 bolts is all it takes to switch out)





These are older photos, as the sponsons are on the boat, taken back around 2006, about a year after the boat was built.








> 5 send impeller to impros for a custom pitch still have the top 1/4 of my throttle that just gives me 7800 rpm with no speed increase



Experimenting with pitch can either give good results, or crappy ones. 

Another option you should consider is a "Wet Wolf Adjust-A-Thrust Nozzle" It uses a spring loaded shuttle that responds to varying water flow through the pump, and it can give top end gains of around 1.5 MPH, as well as better hook-up and loading in choppy water. I started running one on my boat a few months ago, it does make a difference. Better hole shot, better top end, and better hook-up in the chop.




> 6 mess with the water pickup design




You mean the intake duct? I may have already asked this (I suffer from C.R.S. sometimes) but, have you tried a top-loader grate? If so, you may be able to experiment with the rake angle of the top loader scoop on that grate where it's not so steep, which should remove some drag. 

You could possibly cut the rake loose from the longitudinal tines, using a thin-kerf recipro saw blade, then, drill a hole through either tine, for a screw, and then drill and tap into the sides of the rake/blade itself. 

This way, you could position it, and lock it down, and experiment with varying angles, without having to cut and re-weld it every time. Once you're satisfied with the position, then weld it.




> if that doesnt get me 50 im switching from a skat trak swirl to a straight cut design for top end I think that the swirl costs me 3+ mph
> I can ditch 100lbs and alot of wind resistance I think what do you guys think?



I think you're on the right track. Not sure about straight cut vs. swirl impeller as far as top end. I do know that swirl impellers are better in rough water, and they're less susceptible to being fouled than straight blade impellers. But as far as which one gives better top end, I'm thinking probably the straight edge.


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## scubapro820 (Dec 24, 2012)

You're right about the swirl having better hook up and not getting fouled by weeds but it traps wood chips really bad like a door stop and starts cavitation at 4k and 3mph lol hookup has never been an issue yet / v hull the steel plate is like 40-45 lbs it was used in the tigersharks with the m.a.d. multi Angle deadrise hull as ballast bc they sat higher and also why they were famously tippy I don't need ballast so I want to ditch the steel . I think reducing the profile will make it faster by a bit buoyancy is a plus if I drop 100 lbs I can add cargo too. Btw how.did you make the sponsons ? Rigid inflatable ? I hope for 3-4 mph by impeller pitch I think its 19/21 I want 2+3 inches more it should bring my rpm down to 6500/6000


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## PSG-1 (Dec 24, 2012)

No way I could use inflatable sponsons out here. Not with all the barnacles and oysters I encounter. :shock: :shock:  

The sponsons were made from .050" X 10" aluminum irrigation pipe, which was notched, and welded to follow the angle of the boat, and then a cap welded to either end, made from 1/8" plate. Then I used aluminum angle clips that were welded to the sponsons, and riveted to the gunwales of the boat.

Here's some photos:


The raw material, .050" X 10" irrigation pipe, from Mid-Atlantic Irrigation




Starboard side completed, port side not done yet:













Completed:







It sure was a PITA welding this thin material, especially getting it welded air-tight. On the starboard side, I didn't use chill rings on the inside of the seams. Having dealt with that, on the port side, I used chill rings, which made welding a helluva lot easier.

Anyhow, once I got it done, it held pressure, all the way up to 15 PSI, which is really overkill, it only needs to be about 2-3 PSI, but this just goes to show that it would hold that amount of pressure:


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## Tinklespout (Jan 17, 2013)

Nice! That is too cool. 

Do you think I could use PVC pipe? I can't weld. 

Im considering filling them with foam or nothing. Why did you pressurize?
Kim


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## PSG-1 (Jan 29, 2013)

Tinklespout said:


> Nice! That is too cool.
> 
> Do you think I could use PVC pipe? I can't weld.
> 
> ...




You could probably use PVC pipe, the majority of the run down the gunwale is going to be straight. However, you might run into some issues when you get amidships, as the gunwale begins to curve toward the bow. You can see how we had to cut, notch, and weld to deal with that. You could possibly heat the PVC enough to make it pliable, and bend a gradual radius in it to make that curve, I'm not sure how that would work out.

Your other issue would be how to make a system of being able to attach the tubes to the boat. Some type of brackets or clamps that will attach to the gunwales.

Filling with foam would give you some added buoyancy in the event of the tube having a leak, or knocking a hole in it.

I pressurized, because as long as there is positive pressure, you know there's not a leak, and therefore, no water being in the tube. As the photo shows, each tube had a PSI gauge that read up to 15PSI, and these gauges were located amidships, on the top of each sponson, where I could easily see them from my position at the helm.


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