# Looking for ideas about shallow water/big rock warning



## FBRDrifter (Jun 20, 2013)

I run my 1436 Tracker in a river that is rather rocky (5 foot boulders in 6 foot of water) and can get pretty shallow (18"-24"). As I'm sure you know, rivers will shift, and with two people, one in the back running the O/B and the other up front to watch, submerged rocks and trees as well as shallow water are not a problem. The person in the front can warn of anything like that. But, when I go out alone, there is no way to "see" what I am heading for until it's to late. I really don't care to put a gash in the hull or tear up a lower unit. Would anyone have some ideas on some kind of warning system? Depth finders in this situation are virtually useless.


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## Jonboat Jerry (Jun 20, 2013)

Something rigged on the centerline on the bow like a tall bicycle flag. Mounted on a pivot in the center so the bottom reached down in the water below the depth of your motor. A bungee cord above the pivot would hold the flag upright against the current
while cruising but allow the flag to move forward when the bottom was struck by an object. Think of a large version of a strike indicator the ice fishermen use. Well, my brain is smoking so I'll stop here. Jerry :lol:


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## catmansteve (Jun 20, 2013)

A jet boat :LOL2: 
I built a shield that attached to my motor's skeg with a flat plate welded on horizontallyjust big enough to protect the prop. Google "mac's river runner", that was my inspiration, but I wasn't shelling out the cash so I made one for about $20. I hit submerged rocks numerous times going 20+ mph and it never hurt anything other than bending the shield up, which was aluminum so I could straighten it by hand and keep going. Of course, that was before I was converted to the propless wonder :LOL2:


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## stevesecotec02 (Jun 20, 2013)

You could rig up your tranduscer on something that hangs out front of boat like 8'.It might give you enough warning depending how fast your going.


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 20, 2013)

I was thinking about something similar to that, Jerry. Maybe something, instead of a flag, an adjustable tension spring on the "stick" and a small pushbutton switch at the top that would light a small warning lamp. When the "stick" that is in the water deflects from hitting the bottom or a rock, it will operate the switch and light a warning lamp. That way, very little is sticking up in the air (just a few inches) to get in the way when casting.


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## TheMaestro (Jun 21, 2013)

Reminds me of curb feelers on those '70's Lincoln Towncars... Those things would echo through the body of the car when they hit curbside..maybe all you need is something like that where you could feel it through the hull..


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## PSG-1 (Jun 21, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319624#p319624 said:


> TheMaestro » 30 minutes ago[/url]"]Reminds me of curb feelers on those '70's Lincoln Towncars... Those things would echo through the body of the car when they hit curbside..maybe all you need is something like that where you could feel it through the hull..



LMAO! Just need a set of fuzzy dice to hang from the console, maybe even a tree air freshener, and it's ready for river running! :LOL2: 

I was thinking one of those reverse cameras that you install on a vehicle, mounted to the bow, with the monitor mounted at the console, would give a birds-eye view of the area directly in front of the boat. But there's 2 problems with that. First, the operator has to constantly watch the screen instead of watching where they're going, so, that's not good. Second, it would probably be difficult to see the screen in bright sunlight.

The stick with the flag seems like a better idea, but if you're running 20 knots, by the time the flag pops up, you're already on top of the rocks.

On the note of rocky rivers, one of these days, I plan on running the PeeDee River between Cheraw and Rockingham, where it goes into the fall line. Rocks the size of vans in that stretch of river. I have a jetboat, but it still makes me apprehensive, the thought of hitting a massive boulder.


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## JMichael (Jun 21, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319624#p319624 said:


> TheMaestro » Today, 07:12[/url]"]Reminds me of curb feelers on those '70's Lincoln Towncars... Those things would echo through the body of the car when they hit curbside..maybe all you need is something like that where you could feel it through the hull..


LoL those feelers were a product of the 50's and early 60's, you're telling off on yourself now. :lol:


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 21, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319625#p319625 said:


> PSG-1 » Today, 09:50[/url]"]
> 
> 
> [url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319624#p319624 said:
> ...



Having been the person in front, acting as the watch-out, I can say first hand that glare, as well as water clarity, sometimes make it impossible to really see what's in front.

Speed wise, it wouldn't be quicker than a walking pace. 3-4mph approx. Any quicker and there is no time to react.

Yes, I have seen boulders that size as well. 6-7 feet of water and there is a huge rock just under the surface. Luckily, we have been on this river (French Broad River) enough to know where those are at, and they don't move.

A disturbance on the surface of the water can sometimes tell of something just under the surface but not always. Sometimes, they look just like a "normal" swirling of the water and other times, there is no visual warning at all.


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## PSG-1 (Jun 21, 2013)

> Having been the person in front, acting as the watch-out, I can say first hand that glare, as well as water clarity, sometimes make it impossible to really see what's in front.
> 
> Speed wise, it wouldn't be quicker than a walking pace. 3-4mph approx. Any quicker and there is no time to react.
> 
> ...



I've never been on the French Broad River, but I'm sure the same tactics apply anywhere there are rocks in the river, knowing how to read the water and being able to tell where the obstructions are. Here where I live, that means being able to spot sandbars, and if you don't, well, they don't do much damage to the boat. 

Rocks is another story. :shock:


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 21, 2013)

Sandbars really are not any problem. The drop of the river in the area we fish is pretty good so it's pretty much rock. There are a few holes that do have sandy bottoms though. To give you an idea what I am looking at, here are a couple pics. The one with the Musky is in about 6-7 foot of water and a sandy bottom. No problems in that section of water (but it is also where that biggggg rock is as well).The one with the smallie is in about 4 foot of water and a rocky bottom. You can see how much timber is in the water as well as the speed of the water and the natural swirls. This water is very hard to read without someone on the bow looking out or some kind of indicator.


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## catmansteve (Jun 21, 2013)

Honestly I think a shield for your lower unit would work fine for you, especially since you're only going hull speed, I had hit ledges at planing speed with the shield on mine and no damage. The key is to always make sure the motor tilt is unlocked. As far as taking hits on the hull, even if you have a thin hull, .08 or less, if you're only doing 3-4 mph I can't see rock impacts doing any major damage other than scrapes and dents.

As far as spotting the rocks before the hit happens, polarized glasses make a world of difference. Your river sounds pretty similar to mine, one minute you're in 4 ft of water and the next there's a solid rock ledge 3" below the water with hardly any swirl showing on the surface. Just learn the river the best you can and always be ready for a problem and you'll do fine.


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## PSG-1 (Jun 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319706#p319706 said:


> FBRDrifter » Yesterday, 21:45[/url]"]Sandbars really are not any problem. The drop of the river in the area we fish is pretty good so it's pretty much rock. There are a few holes that do have sandy bottoms though. To give you an idea what I am looking at, here are a couple pics. The one with the Musky is in about 6-7 foot of water and a sandy bottom. No problems in that section of water (but it is also where that biggggg rock is as well).The one with the smallie is in about 4 foot of water and a rocky bottom. You can see how much timber is in the water as well as the speed of the water and the natural swirls. This water is very hard to read without someone on the bow looking out or some kind of indicator.




I see what you mean. Those 2 pictures look similar to the rivers here at the coast, the first one looks like the Little PeeDee, and the second one looks like it could have been on the Waccamaw or Santee River. 


See, check it out:




That's a shot of the Little Pee Dee river, near Marion, SC. To the casual observer, it almost looks like the same stretch of river. But the Little Pee Dee originates from a blackwater swamp, no rocks whatsoever.



Like I said, your photo is very deceiving... at a glance, you wouldn't know there are rocks in that river. At least not from the photos. But a quick looks at google earth says otherwise! You can clearly see rocks in that river. Lots of 'em.

I'm down here on the coast, we have NO rocks whatsoever, the only obstructions we have to deal with are logs and sandbars in the rivers. 

Here in saltwater, it's sandbars and oyster beds. In the salt water, there's usually good enough visibility, you can see the shoal areas in up to 4-5 ft of water. In the rivers, it's a little different, because the tannic acid stains the rivers here really dark brown, almost black. In those conditions, you can only see a shoal that's in less than 1 foot of water.

As for running in rocky rivers, I've been as far up as Cheraw, where the fall line begins, but no farther. To the point we went to (Thompson's Creek, about 2 miles downstream from Cheraw) there were some gravel shoals, but no boulders in the river. But go just a few miles farther, and you're into the fall line, which demarcates the coastal floodplain from the lower piedmont. 


Here's a really neat feature of the Great PeeDee, just below US 74 near Rockingham:





Those zig-zagging rock formations are the remains of prehistoric fishing weirs, constructed by the Cheraw indians. I've yet to see a formation like this in any other rivers around here, and I've done a lot of looking around with google earth. but you can see how those extend all the way across the river. That's the kind of thing that makes me apprehensive about going any farther upstream than Cheraw.


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 22, 2013)

Thinking about it some more, I believe it would be a great deal safer to stay in known parts of the river when out alone. If something should happen, an extra person can be a BIG help.


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## 2sac (Jun 22, 2013)

Chart the river with side imaging and mark the obstructions as waypoints. Humminbird will allow you to mark a "casting ring" around the waypoint. What this does is set up a radius of your choosing. You mark the boulders, set up, lets say a 20ft radius. This will keep you 10ft away from the obstruction at any given angle. If you do a thorough job, you can run high speed thru the given area. HB and Lakemaster software offer a depth offset as well, providing your waterway is on the map card If you know the waterway is high or low, you can plug those numbers into the graph and change the chart contours. I know it's not the cheapest way to do things, but in the long run, probably the best.


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## 2sac (Jun 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319729#p319729 said:


> PSG-1 » Today, 08:28[/url]"]
> 
> 
> [url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319706#p319706 said:
> ...


2nd pic doesn't look fun


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## PSG-1 (Jun 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319753#p319753 said:


> FBRDrifter » 18 minutes ago[/url]"]Thinking about it some more, I believe it would be a great deal safer to stay in known parts of the river when out alone. If something should happen, an extra person can be a BIG help.




I agree completely, I don't like to venture alone to unfamiliar waters. 

I've also thought about buying a cheap 12 volt electric winch, to carry on board when I go to unfamiliar waters, just in case I were to run aground, etc, I could rig it up to pull my boat off a shoal, sandbar, etc. Since it weighs about 1000 pounds, even with another person, it ain't gonna budge!


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## PSG-1 (Jun 22, 2013)

> 2nd pic doesn't look fun




You got that right! It might be neat to check it out in a kayak, but as far as running it with any kind of power boat, it's probably pretty spooky. Serious pucker factor. :shock: Especially in an aluminum jetboat with no UHMW panels.

I'm sure there's a certain water level or flow in CFS from Blewett Falls dam to where this obstruction is covered by water enough to safely clear it, but I'm not sure exactly what that level or flow rate may be. I know there is, though, because there are people who run boats in that stretch of river, and they have to have water to be able to do that.

On one hand, I want to push the envelope and check it out, but on the other hand, my common sense is telling me to stay off that stretch of river unless it's aboard a kayak.


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 22, 2013)

Here is the section of the river (compliments of Google Earth) where the pic of the Musky was taken. Google earth says the image was taken 10/20/2010. This late in the year, the water level is pretty low and you can see the top of the bigggg rock I mentioned before. Around the bend, you can see many more. It's impassible in a jonboat when you get to the first rocks around the bend. I know it doesn't show above the surface only one but, I can tell you there are many more just under the surface all the way across. In this river, you never know where or when you will find a boulder in the middle of nowhere.

We first found that "rock the size of a van" when one of us got a lure hung up and couldn't see it until we were almost on top of it, retrieving the lure. The water was fairly clear (about 2 foot visibility) but, it was at that time, about 8-10 inches under the surface. This rock is there all by it's self.


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## PSG-1 (Jun 22, 2013)

Google earth is great for doing reconnaissance of unfamiliar rivers. Also, the distance measuring tools are outstanding resources, as you can measure off distance in river miles to plot out a trip, and as long as you know your boat's average MPG, and how much fuel you have on board, you can plot out a trip without risking running out of fuel.

I just wish there was a way to super-impose the google earth images/info onto a Garmin GPS, as topo maps do show some detail, but not like a satellite image. I do have google earth on my cell phone, and have occasionally referred to it when in question of an unfamiliar area...but if I don't have a signal in a certain area, no way to pull up the data.

You made a very valid point about the date of imagery, as water levels can vary during the year. Depending on when the image was taken, such as during high water levels, it might not show hazards and obstructions that may exist.


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 22, 2013)

Here are two great sources on river flow and level information. I use these regularly.

NOAA - https://water.weather.gov/ahps/

USGS - https://waterdata.usgs.gov/nwis/rt


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## PSG-1 (Jun 22, 2013)

Same here. NOAA has flow data from gauging stations for pretty much every river in the US. Very good data for the river runners. 

Much the same way we use the tide info here at the coast, we know at what tide stage certain creeks, etc are passable, and when they are not.


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## FBRDrifter (Jun 22, 2013)

I think I may do what catmansteve suggested and put a guard on the skeg, just in case. This would be mostly for getting into what I know to be shallow waters, though free of any big rocks. We will many times, after a good flood, go out and do some recon. One on the O/B and the other on the bow as a lookout. This is mostly looking for submerged timber. The bottom doesn't change very much as it is mostly rocky.


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