# Wildfire(s) in California



## LDUBS (Jul 28, 2018)

A major wildfire up near Redding in Northern Calif has destroyed 500 homes and tragically there have been two firefighter deaths. Fire is about 50,000 acres large last I heard (yesterday). It is moving so fast that most efforts have been directed towards evacuations. Temps in inland California are in the 100+ range. Hot dry weather. The fire moved through an area including Whiskeytown lake where it hit a marina with something like 40 boats lost. Not really important compared to lives and homes. 

Edit: This is known as the Carr Fire. Just read now there are 5 lives lost -- add a grandmother and her two grandchildren. Very sad news. Last year the wildfires fires around Santa Rosa & wine country claimed 45 lives and almost 9,000 structures. Without saying this is just awful. 

Over the past month or so we have had two wildfire incidents within 4 to 5 miles of my place. Where we are is a textbook definition of urban/wildland interface. I was happy to see the heavy response to contain these incidents, which in addition to man power included bombers and helicopters. Looks like it is going to be a bad fire season.


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## onthewater102 (Jul 30, 2018)

Scary stuff indeed. Just heard that a friend of my brother's was forced to evacuate her home in Redding and will be living with family outside the area while she waits to hear if she still has a home/personal belongings etc. after just having moved back to CA from CT a year ago.

FWIW prayers for any and all exposed to these fires, 1st respondents and residents alike.


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## LDUBS (Jul 31, 2018)

It is pretty bad. Over 800 homes destroyed. Mandatory evacuation applies to something like 38,000 people. Now over 100,000 acres. Last I read firefighters are starting to make some headway with 20% containment. 

There are currently about 17 wildfires happening in California. 12,000 firefighters are deployed. 

Crazy.


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## Billinthedesert (Jul 31, 2018)

Have a friend in the wildland interface outside Chico and he has done as much as he can to make his home defensible. But when these fires get so large they generate their own weather, it is about impossible to defend anything. August will be a long month in California this summer. Great paychecks for the firefighters, but very hard earned.


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## ppine (Jul 31, 2018)

I am a retired forester. The State of California needs to rethink their regs for home contruction materials, defensible space, fuels reduction, thinning and logging. They are paying the price for fire suppression, and the Protectionist Doctrine. There are a lot more logging trucks now on NFs like the Plumas, Lassen, and Tahoe. 

Contrary to public opinion, fire resilience can be created. We are not at the mercy of Mother Nature and global warming. But there needs to be a complete change in the approach of how to deal with wild fires. The mega fires will continue until we get caught up with the management.


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## Billinthedesert (Aug 1, 2018)

Ppine, as the son of a forestry professor, all I can say is AMEN!


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## ppine (Aug 1, 2018)

Thanks for chiming in Bill. 
There is so much misinformation, it is very frustrating to witness. 
People need to stop trying to stop timber sales and support the logging industry. 
It is not reasonable to keep sending firefighters into dangerous explosive fires in mismanaged timber stands. 

There is a lot we can do in our own yards, our neighborhoods and municipalities. 
Support responsible and sustainable logging. 
Our problems now clearly have resulted from too many trees per acre and 125 years of fire suppression.


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## LDUBS (Aug 1, 2018)

*"too many trees per acre and 125 years of fire suppression."*

Similar discussions been happening for the last 45 years. We just can't seem to get a sustainable action plan that is based on the science.


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## onthewater102 (Aug 2, 2018)

The miss-management is the same on the east coast. The under story of the forests in CT are so dense at this point we're lucky we don't get the dry air and wind that CA does for protracted periods of time because we'd have an absolute firestorm if this place lit up.


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## GTS225 (Aug 2, 2018)

I've read that one of the biggest contributors to the problem is tree-hugging activists that prevent even cleanup of dead and down trees and underbrush. They feel that ANY activity is wrong, and they file lawsuits to stop or prevent any reasonable action from taking place.

Roger


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## KMixson (Aug 3, 2018)

Where I live we have controlled burns every so often to keep the forest from going up in flames after years of neglect.


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## Billinthedesert (Aug 3, 2018)

KM, they use controlled burns when they can here, too, but they are risky owing to unpredictable winds and the incredible buildup of heavy fire and "ladder" fuels. Even at that, they are treating perhaps one-half of 1 percent of what desperately needs treating. There is just so much biomass that has built up over the past century plus. Toss a couple of endangered species into this matrix and you have a recipe for catastrophe. I live on the edge of the Lincoln National Forest, home of the fire that gave our nation Smokey the Bear.


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## ppine (Aug 8, 2018)

On federal lands there is a requirement for compliance with NEPA the National Environmental Policy Act. It oftens means a study and other field examinations for things like archaeology, threatened and endangered plants and animals and biological assesssments for species of special concern like Grizz or wolverines. Anyone can challenge a timber sale for the cost of a stamp and it may go to court. 

Prescribed fire is part of the solution but thinning and logging are required along with it. The best rehabilitation of overstocked forests occurs with selective logging first and then prescribed fire which stays on the ground and does not crown out.


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## Billinthedesert (Aug 10, 2018)

This!


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## ppine (Aug 11, 2018)

Hi Bill
When I was a kid I lived in Maryland and used to go to the National Zoo all the time to visit the real Smokey. 
He was a rescued from the Lincoln NF in N Mexico right about the time that I was born in 1950.
I used to talk sit and talk with him all the time. 
He is part of the reason I became a forester.


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## Billinthedesert (Aug 12, 2018)

Good for you, Ppine. I have only seen pictures and newsreels of Smokey. Next time I am in Capitan, I will stop and pay my respects at his grave. The northernmost of the three ranger districts in the Lincoln is named after Smokey, the other two being the Sacramento and the Guadalupe.


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## ppine (Aug 14, 2018)

In face of the awful megafires currently burning in California and southern Oregon, I spend a lot of time on forums talking with people about forestry. 
I see the smoke here in Nevada just over the hill. 
There is a lot of discussion about how drought and weather conditions have caused the fires. Many people are long winded about a warming climate. 
These are contributing factors alright, but the main problem is neglect. The USFS has promoted 100% fire suppression since 1910 after the Big Blowup in MT and ID.
Too many stems per acre. Too much brush and understory. Too much dead organic material. 

Now is the right time to try to get people to understand that were are reaping what we have sown. Thoughts and prayers do not cut it. 
Firefighters are doing all they can, but it is not reasonable to keep sending them into these giant infernos. Most of the current fires cannot really be fought on the ground except at night when the fires lay down. It is a bunch of air shows which is why they cost so much to fight. 
Billions of dollars are spent on suppression. Budgets for fuel reduction and precommercial thinning are a few million. 
It is like the old oil filter. "You can pay me now or you can pay me later."
Support responsible logging.


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## LDUBS (Aug 14, 2018)

Another firefighter lost his life in N. Cal (Mendocino Complex Fire). He was based out of Utah. 

Even though I am a couple of hundred of miles away from these fires there has been a lot of smoke in the air. It has started to cleare up around my place over the past couple of days. Last week I drove into the central valley south of Stockton and was shocked at how much smoke was in the atmosphere.


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## handyandy (Aug 16, 2018)

Seems a lot of the problem is the left and right can't seem to meet in the middle with responsible forest management. Seems to be the problem with much of our government.


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## ppine (Aug 19, 2018)

Two of the largest obstacles to forest management and timber sales are lawsuits and compliance with the National Environmental Policy Act NEPA.


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## ppine (Oct 26, 2018)

Just came back from a week in Yosemite. I was in shock looking at mile after mile of standing dead timber from the multiple megafires. 
The good news is that the log trucks are rolling again on the National Forests in California. Yesterday we were on the Stanislaus and Eldorado NFs. The Plumas, Lassen and Tahoe have been busy for the last couple of years. Good news for CA forests.


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## LDUBS (Nov 8, 2018)

In spite of continued warm dry weather and high winds I was hoping we would make it through the end of the year but looks like we can't catch a break. Another bad wildfire is happening in Butte County, California. It is called the Camp Fire. Current reports say18,000 acres. Zero containment. One report said multiple deaths but I’m not seeing any follow up so I can only hope this is in error. Saying 1,000 homes lost. 50,000 evauated from small towns around the fire. Apparently a lot of gridlock for folks trying to get out. Also read that high winds caused the fire to move so fast some folks were not able to leave town and sheltered in large parking lots at Kmart, Safeway, etc. 

There is a lot of smoke in the air here and I am about 150 miles south of the fire.


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## Jim (Nov 9, 2018)

Stay safe bud!


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## GTS225 (Nov 9, 2018)

Read on another BB I frequent, that the town of Paradise, CA., had been completely destroyed.

'Tis the season out there. Godspeed to you all.

Roger


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## KMixson (Nov 9, 2018)

I heard this fire was consuming the area of 80 football fields a minute. That is awful.


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## LDUBS (Nov 9, 2018)

From the reports I see the town of Paradise is pretty much razed. Residents say because of gridlock people had to abandon their cars and run for it (some carrying babies or pets) As far as containment Fire officials say that right now mother nature is fully in charge. Pretty bad and threatening Chico which is a larger college town of about 90K people. Mt. Diablo rises up 3,300 feet right in front of our house. Right now I can barely see the peaks because of the smoke from this fire which is 150 miles away. 

Additionally, other fires are happening in Southern California I heard last night that Malibu (homes of the rich & famous) was under evacuation orders. 

Personally, we are in zero danger from any of these fires. There were a couple of incidents earlier in the year that were threatening, but they were contained well before they got within 5 miles of us.


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## ppine (Nov 9, 2018)

It is very troublesome to see the video of neighborhoods in Paradise, CA with dense vegetation right up to the buildings in steep topography and only one road out. Most people do not seem to realize how much they can do to make their property fire safe. Defensible space, thinning trees, pruining up. removing ladder fuels, removing trees near the house, etc.


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## ppine (Nov 9, 2018)

delete


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## LDUBS (Nov 14, 2018)

ppine said:


> It is very troublesome to see the video of neighborhoods in Paradise, CA with dense vegetation right up to the buildings in steep topography and only one road out. Most people do not seem to realize how much they can do to make their property fire safe. Defensible space, thinning trees, pruining up. removing ladder fuels, removing trees near the house, etc.



Haven't you heard, higher severity is caused by climate change, so why worry about things like defensible space or fuel loads. :roll: 

This fire has turned into really bad news in terms of lives lost and property damage. It is only about 35% contained though if what I heard on the news is correct, it is moving in a direction away from populated areas. Atmosphere around my place 150 miles away is thick. You can actually taste the smoke. I can't imagine the air quality nearer the fires.


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## LDUBS (Nov 15, 2018)

A lot of folks who lost their homes are living in small tents or under tarps in a Walmart parking lot. FEMA says help with housing is still a few days out. A lot of private donations are being transported in by volunteers to provide clothing & etc for these folks. In the meantime, our state has a $9 billion surplus (expected to grow to $15B). Seems we could divert a little of that to help these poor folks.


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## GTS225 (Nov 16, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> FEMA says help with housing is still a few days out.


************************************************************************

HMMPH! Federal Emergency *MIS*management Agency. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when an agency with that kind of a budget can't seem to grasp the definition of the word "emergency".

Roger


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## ppine (Nov 21, 2018)

Fire in the western states has now become a matter of life and death. 
Fire agencies can no longer keep people safe due to 110 years of fire suppression and reduced logging. 
They want you to believe it is a warming climate and there is nothing we can do. They keep asking for more money. 
Two thirds of the USFS budget goes to fire suppression, around 2.25 billion dollars a year. 
CalFire has a budget around $420 million. 

Fortunately loaded logs trucks are running all over California now. Take a drive up Rte 88 out of Jackson. There is mile after mile of thinnning and slash removal going on that is visible from the road. 

Do your part to clean up your property. 
Stop praying and start your tractor and a chainsaw.


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## LDUBS (Nov 21, 2018)

We have rain storms stacked up for the next 10 days or so. Camp Fire is 80% contained. Hopefully this rain will help and clear the atmosphere in Northern California of smoke. It won't be good for any of those poor people who are still living in tents in a Walmart parking lot. 

81 deaths and people still missing. 153,000 acres burned. Over 14,000 structures destroyed. Of those about 13K residential, 500 commercial and the remainder being "other" types of buildings. 

People walking around in masks is a very common sight now. I have lived in Northern California all my life and have never seen this before. Of course, the poor air quality is nothing to complain about compared to what the fire victims have lost. 

Edit : Removed the "political" content. <sigh>


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## ppine (Nov 24, 2018)

Hi LDubs,
People need to get busy and make their properties and communities fire safe. The Foothill areas are some of the worst. Half the towns on Rte 49 are fire traps. People live at the end of a road with only one way in and out. There is some serious denial going on in California. Start your chainsaw.


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## handyandy (Nov 30, 2018)

Better management practices of the the forest would have helped. But ultimately I question how much better the outcome would have been, it's just a perfect storm for fires years of bad drought have brought on. Yes better forest management might have kept the fires from being as bad had some logging and dead wood thinning been practiced. But how much better would it have been?

The problem I see with the forest management seems to be both sides of the house can't seem to agree on how to manage the forest. One side once to do lots of logging and doesn't have much care for how it will affect the forest environment, the other side wants absolutely nothing touched in them. Seems we need to find a balanced medium of sensible logging, and thinning practices. On the other hand it would be really hard to keep all the millions of acres of forest thinned of all dead trees, undergrowth, and other easy fuel sources. I won't get into how I feel about our federal government being rather unwilling to have sent emergency aid sooner.


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## LDUBS (Nov 30, 2018)

It is not just the fuel loading issue. The urban/wildfire interface/intermix has grown dramatically which increases these catastrophic life safety and property loss issues. In addition to better managing fuel loads, which by the way has been a point of discussion for almost as many years as I have lived, we need more support for firewise and defensible space actions on the part of property owners. I sure agree we don't have the "balance" needed to actually address the problem. 

We are going through a series of rain storms. Some fire victims are still living in tents in a Walmart parking lot. A lot of donations and volunteer assistance is happening to help these folks. I just don't understand why the state can't spend a small part of the $9 billion surplus to put these folks in temporary housing.


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## ppine (Dec 2, 2018)

People have lived in and around the Foothills of CA since the Gold Rush days. It is not new at all. 

People do not seem to understand how regulated logging practices are. Foresters decide when and where to log and which trees to take. Riparian areas are protected. There is environmental review before a site can be logged. Loggers don't get to do what they want. Sustained yield has been in place since 1964. The problem is too many trees, overstocking, dense stands of dead trees. 

Those forests need to be thinned so they can be prescribed burned safely. Now fires always crown out and take the whole forest. We want to reduce the fuel load to keep them on the ground.


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## LDUBS (Dec 2, 2018)

ppine said:


> People have lived in and around the Foothills of CA since the Gold Rush days. It is not new at all.




I can't even begin to agree. The catastrophic consequences for property and life safety losses in the gold rush days was basically zero. In the gold rush days there was essentially zero density compared to what we have today. The exposure has changed drastically. Urban intermix/interface is now forever going to be part of any management plan.


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## ppine (Dec 4, 2018)

Hi LDubs,
The main difference between the Gold Rush days and now is that in the old days people logged the countryside with no regulations. It took a lot of wood to build houses, timber frame the mines, run railroads, and keep houses warm and run all of that steam powered equipment. Areas around settlements were denuded of vegetation. Now the same places are overgrown with vegetation that have turned into fire traps. 

The railroads and the mining era photographs did a good job of documenting what vegetative conditions looked like a long time ago. There are thousands of photo pairs taken then and now from the same location. There are books full of them. Fire suppression and radically different amounts of logging have had more to do with it than the amount of people living there.


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## LDUBS (Dec 4, 2018)

Oh, in that respect I do agree. I spent many years trying to manage property loss risk in wildfire and brush areas, so kind of naturally focus on life safety and property loss exposures.


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