# 5HP Gamefisher Question/w/pics/UPDATE 10/30/08



## ben2go

I was given a 5HP Gamefisher outboard last night.Model # 217-585460 I was told that the motor left running fine and soon as it got away from the docks,it wound down and stopped.After it stopped it couldn't be turned.When I got it, it was free and turned easily without a spark plug in it.I am told this is because of an overheated gear case.I can't seem to find a fill or drain plug on the lower unit.Does someone have or will someone post pics of the plugs.Is there a air filter on this model motor?Sears parts diagrams are so fuzzy that I can't tell my _ _ _ from a hole in the ground. :? Has anyone replaced the impeller and housing on one of these?Is it difficult?Thanks in advance.


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## bassboy1

If it is stuck, you need not worry about an air filter or water pump housing. Neither of those will play a significant role in getting it unstuck (the water pump housing _could_ have been the reason that it got stuck, but a) that is doutbful, and b) if you can't get it unstuck this time, there is no reason to keep it from getting stuck next time, because there is no next time).

I haven't played with Gamefishers that much, but I think I could start you in the right direction. Did you mix the gas and the oil correctly? Was it pumping water correctly? Does the motor have a gearshift, or is it always in forward? If it has a shifter, does it still shift, or is it stuck? If you can get it into neutral, can you turn the prop by hand? I am led to believe the problem is somewhere in the lower unit, which could be a number of things. Lets start there, and then go on.


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## ben2go

I dunno what was done to the engine.I'm just going based on what I was told.When I picked it up this past saturday it was free and turning.Either way I plan to change the gear case oil and impeller after I get it up and running.


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## Jim

What was the outcome?


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## ben2go

Jim said:


> What was the outcome?



I've come down with pneumonia and haven't been able to work on the engine.I have started feeling better in the past couple days,but not well enough to get out.Before I put away the engine,it need a spark plug,fresh fuel,and a carb cleaning.I plan to change the gear case oil and impeller for a piece of mind.Sears online parts department still have parts listed for the old Gamefisher outboards.Have to look up the parts using the engine model number.They still sell the parts to rebuild the power head.The prices on parts to rebuild the power head make it barely worth it for the home mechanic.If the work has to be done at a shop,find a working engine and keep the bad one for spare parts.The power head being Tecumseh is good.If someone has connections with an old small engine or lawn mower shop,the parts are interchangeable with some of the old mowers.From my understanding the engine block and crankshaft are the only parts specific to the outboards.I can't confirm this 100% but my cousin has an old green push mower, with a Tecumeh engine,and it isn't much different than my outboard.The carbs look the same as does the pull start cover.I hope this info will help someone and I will keep posted what happens when I am able to work on the engine more.


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## papasage

if both are 4 cyckle it might be the same .


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## papasage

try this site for some good info.
https://forums.iboats.com/


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## Andy

https://www.discount-marine-parts.com/
That's where I got my parts for my Ted Williams motor.. 
Give them a call, top notch service and quick delivery. 

My motor doesn't have an air filter either... 

I replaced my impeller and D-shaft seal. not very hard at all. just take your time with it.. and when you're putting it all back together, (if it's the same as mine.) on the water tube put it in the upper end first, then when you're putting it in the pump housing, you can help line it up through the exhaust hole above the prop with a long screw driver. 

Hope that helps you out.


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## ben2go

Thanks.If I ever get well I'm gonna do something with the motor.I have to have a 4 cycle on my lakes and the Gamefisher is a 2 smoker.I really like the Gamefisher.Weighs around 25 to 30 pounds.I don't have a trailer so I will be loading/unloading the boat out of the bed of my truck.No big deal since the boat is a 1030.It helps that the engine is light enough to take on and off with the boat beached.


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## ben2go

Pulled the motor out today.I checked the spark,not good.I pull the rope and it only fires the spark plug once or twice.It's a new spark plug.So I am taking the engine apart enough to get at the magneto.While I had the motor tilted up,thick green oil ran out of the carb and the fuel valve for the external fuel tank.So I need to replace the fuel valve and clean the carb.I'll have to rebuild the fuel pump also.I installed the plug and spun the engine over.It feels a little low on compression but not low enough to prevent running.It may have some form of compression release built into the carb base.I'm not as good with 2 strokes as I am with 4 strokes.My local NAPA and All Pro have parts for this engine.Both stores have been around since cars were invented.Really both stores are family owned and have been in biz for close to 50 years.I'll kepp posted on how things turn out.I'll try to get pics up also.


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## ben2go

Got in there and removed the fly wheel.I cleaned the ignition parts real good,re gaped the points(the possible problem),and put it back together.I now have spark.Only problem is the carb.I can't find a rebuild kit for it.The carb part number is 632121.That is the Tecumseh P/N.I also need the parts to rebuild the fuel pump, the on/off valve for the remote tank connection, and a connector and line for a remote tank.I've search the net and no one seems to make a kit or carb for the engine.A few people have emailed me back saying there were no NOS around either.Anyone have any ideas? :?:


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## phased

ben2go, go to sears.com and do a search of your model #. At the bottom of the page it will give you sections of the motor I.E. powerhead-carb-etc.. They do not list a complete kit but they list most parts separately. Your carb # is listed. Also see the exploded view at the bottom of page. Some parts are discontinued but maybe they have enough to get you running.


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## ben2go

phased said:


> ben2go, go to sears.com and do a search of your model #. At the bottom of the page it will give you sections of the motor I.E. powerhead-carb-etc.. They do not list a complete kit but they list most parts separately. Your carb # is listed. Also see the exploded view at the bottom of page. Some parts are discontinued but maybe they have enough to get you running.



Thanks for the help.
Yea,I did that but they have the parts I need listed as discontinued.


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## phased

Sorry that did not work for you. Might try this ebay store (https://stores.ebay.com/Rupp-Parts) he has Tecumseh carb kits and says "If unsure about fitment for your application..email me all engine #s and I can check fitment."([email protected]).


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## ben2go

phased said:


> Sorry that did not work for you. Might try this ebay store (https://stores.ebay.com/Rupp-Parts) he has Tecumseh carb kits and says "If unsure about fitment for your application..email me all engine #s and I can check fitment."([email protected]).




Model # 217-585460
This is the only number on the engine data plate besides the serial number.The carb number is 632121 and I got this from the sears parts fiche.


EDIT

I should add that the carb is linkage operated and has an internal fuel pump.


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## phased

ben2go I emailed the guy about a kit for your carb a couple of days ago but have not gotten a reply. You might look at the kit in the following link and try to email him. Maybe you will have better luck than I did.

https://tinyurl.com/65j9dd


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## ben2go

phased said:


> ben2go I emailed the guy about a kit for your carb a couple of days ago but have not gotten a reply. You might look at the kit in the following link and try to email him. Maybe you will have better luck than I did.
> 
> https://tinyurl.com/65j9dd




I checked him out.I have minibikes.He doesn't have anything for the marine style carbs.Seems that everything inside is different because of the built in fuel pump.The carb is a float style just like comes on the old 70's Lawn Boy push mowers.Only thing is mine has a fuel pump built into the side,if I'm understanding the parts fiche.The connections are different for the linkage type and the Lawn Boy cable carb.


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## Andy

........#.......yr..hp..cyl....... Notes
217.585460 1980 5 1 Carb Kit DI-52027 Tec 643-29 

That is from https://www.discount-marine-parts.com/


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## ben2go

Andy said:


> ........#.......yr..hp..cyl....... Notes
> 217.585460 1980 5 1 Carb Kit DI-52027 Tec 643-29
> 
> That is from https://www.discount-marine-parts.com/



Cool!Thanks.I must have missed it.I went there and looked.Ahhhh,time fur glasses.


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## Andy

No problem. Glad to help.


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## phased

ben2go I finally received an e-mail from Rupp Parts on parts availability on your gamefisher. I sent you a PM with the info.


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## ben2go

phased said:


> ben2go I finally received an e-mail from Rupp Parts on parts availability on your gamefisher. I sent you a PM with the info.



Got it.Thanks.


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## ben2go

I wanna thank those for posting up and helping me locate parts suppliers.Luckily I haven't needed parts so far.Well except for a spark plug.I haven't gotten the engine running yet.There is really no reason it shouldn't run unless the compression is way down.I am looking for a fuel valve.Mine leaks so bad that I know the engine's pump can't get fuel to the carb.Fuel just runs out past the shut off knob's stem.I tried Rupp Parts and they don't have the correct valve.I am waiting to hear back from Discount Marine.The problem with using an alternative valve is the way the lower shroud is made.The valve drops down from the inside and has a nut that holds it in place on the outside.Problem is the valve is on a perch that causes 2 problems.1) the valve has to point straight up because it's so close to the carb connection 2) the stem for the knob is really long, so the knob will barely hang down past the bottom of the shroud.It's hard to get a finger or 2 on it to turn the valve off.Then it still leaks like crazy.I'll have to say, the knob is protected, but it's stem still got bent.Here's a pic.Maybe I will get a pic of it on the motor.

Here we go.






Here's the fuel valve mounting location.Notice how it raises the valve up.It puts the top hose barb real close to the carb hose barb.





Here's what the valve looks like.I am searching for one.It's upside down in this pic.The knob should be on bottom.


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## phased

I have never seen a valve like this before but being a mechanic I am prone to be a repair before replace kind of guy. That said it looks like the valve body and needle shaft are made from brass? If it were mine I would remove the knob (set screw or pressed on I do not know) then remove the needle shaft via the nut. Place the shaft on a block of wood and use a plastic (soft face) hammer and softly tap the needle while rolling it until it is straight. Be gentle so as not to flatten the shaft. I have repaired many bent carb needle valves like this. It looks kind of corroded so be sure and soak it before trying to take it apart. 
A product by Wechem called Infinity is the best penetrating oil I have used in the over thirty years I have been a mechanic. I was introduced to it 8 years ago when I changed from an auto mechanic to forklifts. It works a lot faster than anything I have used before. Everything on a forklift that is left outside tends to be rusted.

Disclaimer: I am not associated with Wechem in any way I just think it is a great product...LOL


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## ben2go

The nut holds the valve in the cowl.The unit can't be disassembled.The stem for the knob is bent down inside the valve body.Being a former mechanic,my first thought was to disassemble it and try to attempt a repair.I don't understand how it goes together unless it's pressed together.There's no way to remove the needle assembly threw the top and the barbs are part of the valve body.I'm at a loss on this one. :?


*ADDED PIC*


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## SVNET

Good to see another 5HP gamefisher...

That one quite looks like mine but not exact. Interested to see how you make out.

I got all my carb / fuel pump parts from DISCOUNT-MARINE-PARTS.COM

They seems to have everything for my 5HP Gamefisher.

Sherwood the guy I talk to when I call is always right on point, very dry guy but knows his stuff.

I strongly recommend them, reasonable prices, fast shipping and good stock on hand...

Take care.


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## ben2go

Mine is a 1980 Eska Gamefisher produce from 79 to 81.I don't know why, but these years are very different from the early Gamefishers and the later Force/OMC built motors.Good thing is the power head being made by Tecumseh.Carb and ignition parts are easy to find.Older push mowers used simular carbs and the same ignition parts.


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## phased

Man I understand your loss here. Since I have never seen one I can not quite understand what part the knob is turning from the pics. In the last pic posted am I seeing two orifice holes where the fuel passes from the intake barb and out? Could you post a pic with all pieces laid out in order of dis assembly? Maybe that will jog my instincts.

I just found this info:https://www.certifiedpartscorp.com/
Eska
In 1988, Certified Parts Corporation purchased the Outboard Motor and Trolling Motor divisions of Eska. For many years, Eska private labeled their product for companies such as Sears, J.C. Penny, Western Auto and Montgomery Wards. Certified Parts Corporation continues to purchase and assemble most of the major repair components for the Eska units. Certified Parts Corporation stocks repair parts for horsepower models 2 hp. through 15 hp. Also, 2 lb. thrust through 36 lb. thrust trolling motors


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## ben2go

Here is the best pic I could get.It's dark out for me to get a good one.This shows how the valve fits in the cowl.Just imagine the green line as the edge of the cowl if it where cut away.Notice how the base would fit inside the hole the valve hangs out of.This prevents me from using an off the self plumbing valve.The valve has to be closed when the external tank is used.If it's not closed, the fuel pump will suck air through the internal tank,preventing fuel from being pumped to the carb from the external tank.I know it's confusing.


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## phased

man I am sorry for all the ?'s but still trying to figure this out. In the pics it looks like the knob screws on the shaft? You said "fuel just runs out past the shut off valves stem", is the stem what is actually moving in and out? Does it screw in and out or push/pull in and out? Just wandering if maybe it has double threads? You know, screws out so far then if you pull slightly then unscrew more another set of threads engage and will screw out. I just can't figure why the manufacturer would make it a press fit. 
I realize you probably know more about this than I do just trying to put thought in a different direction.


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## ben2go

The valve is like a standard pin valve.Screw in for off and screw out for on/open.Here is what I found out.The stem or shaft was threaded into the valve body,then a rubber seal was added to the stem/shaft with lubricant.Next the valve was placed into a fixture/jig and pressed to seal the stem/shaft into the body.Then the outside was threaded for securing to a mount with a nut and lock washer.I think I have found a new valve.I will be calling to order it tomorrow.I'm hoping it's the same but with the ability to remove the stem/shaft to replace the O ring seal.Thanks for all the help.I understand what you mean by double threads.Once the shaft is backed out as far as it can go,then a threaded insert backs out revealing the valves inner workings.Unfortunately,this valve isn't made that way.If it was I could machine a new brass stem/shaft.


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## phased

Keep us posted on the new valve. Hope it works for you.


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## ben2go

phased said:


> Keep us posted on the new valve. Hope it works for you.



I will.Thanks.


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## ben2go

This is a small update.I found or rather Discount Marine found me a new fuel valve.He assures me that it is an exact replacement or money back no questions asked.I'm starting to like this Sherwood guy I keep dealing with at Discount Marine.Any way,looks like a may need to add $19.95+S&H to my total money spent.The valve should be here Monday or Tuesday.I was assured that it would ship Friday morning.I can't wait.


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## phased

Congrats on your find. I know that is a load off your mind.


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## ben2go

phased said:


> Congrats on your find. I know that is a load off your mind.



Thanks and yes it is.Now when I get it running I gotta locate a good 3 gallon plastic fuel tank,line,and female coupler.I got the male coupler.It's bolted to the lower cowl pointing out next to the tiller arm.If this was a big motor that I leave on the boat,I'd skip the connector and run the line straight to the carb.Most tanks have a connector between the tank and fuel line.I remove and store my motor,in my building, after every use.Keeps the neighbor crack heads from walking off with it.


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## dedawg1149

ben2go said:


> phased said:
> 
> 
> 
> Congrats on your find. I know that is a load off your mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks and yes it is.Now when I get it running I gotta locate a good 3 gallon plastic fuel tank,line,and female coupler.I got the male coupler.It's bolted to the lower cowl pointing out next to the tiller arm.If this was a big motor that I leave on the boat,I'd skip the connector and run the line straight to the carb.Most tanks have a connector between the tank and fuel line.I remove and store my motor,in my building, after every use.Keeps the neighbor crack heads from walking off with it.
Click to expand...

i got better ways to keep them from walking away with my stuff


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## ben2go

I own a few fire arms and most of them know it, since I shot a crack head.I caught one breaking in my house I own next door.It was around midnight.Soon as he jimmyed the door open,I put one in his knee, and jumped on him.We hit the ground and he was in to much pain to fight back.I had hit the emergency speed dial button and laid the phone down,when I jumped on him.My phone has speaker phone option,and the dispatch operator and I could hear each other.The police got there and hauled him away.He was wanted for other thefts,so they didn't bother grilling me.Since this, I have installed more security/street lights.I was luck I seen him coming up the side road.That gave me enough time to slip out my back door,behind my building,and to the corner of the house closest to where he would walk up.I thought he would come around back but he went right up to the front door.He was desperate.


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## ben2go

*UPDATE*

Turns out the guy at Discount Marine has the same useless valve that everyone else keeps selling me.So,I gotta send it back.
Here is some new pics to show exactly what the problem is.The guy at discount marine said I may have to drill the hole over size for it to work but it will not work.A local valve company said that they may be able to build me a valve or modify an exsiting valve to work.The price is way off at a minimum of 50 dollars.

Here is the original valve installed in the lower cowl.It recesses so far into it that I can't use a substitute.I really wish I could.





Here is how it sits on it's pedestal inside the cowl.The lower cowl is aluminum.If it was plastic,I could cut the pedestal down,and remelt everything to look factory.





Here is the valves side by side.This should help explain my issue a little better.


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## dedawg1149

you cant just drill a hole in a new location and mount it?maybe run longer fuel hoses


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## 12ftModder

How about just keeping the old valve in place and using the new one zip tied to the old one or some type of mounting plate under the cowling? Thats if you want to keep it on the cheap.
You can also try this place for a custom made valve https://www.discovervalve.com/


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## ben2go

dedawg1149 said:


> you cant just drill a hole in a new location and mount it?maybe run longer fuel hoses



I could but it's to close to the carb.My carb doesn't have an air filter so it's subject to being splashed and drowned.I consider it a design flaw.I'd add an air filter but there is only 1.5 inches of clearance between the hood and the carb,which helps to send water directly into the carb throat.Did I mention that I'm anal about keeping things original and to factory specs? #-o


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## ben2go

12ftModder said:


> How about just keeping the old valve in place and using the new one zip tied to the old one or some type of mounting plate under the cowling? Thats if you want to keep it on the cheap.
> You can also try this place for a custom made valve https://www.discovervalve.com/



Thank you for the link.I will give it a go.I would consider your suggestion but the valve is to close to the carb and engine.Those pics are a little misleading and make it appear that there is more room than there actually is.I am learning that the 77-82 Eska built Gamefishers are completely different from there predassesors.


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## dedawg1149

i understand being anal about keeping things the way they were but if you cant find a valve it look like from the pictures you could of took the valve you had and took some light metal drilled a hole for the valve to mount then took and pop riveted the metal bracket to your cowling to make a new bracket,you could leave your old valve there intill you found one. then if you found one all you would have to do is drill out the rivets and install the new one.i guess it depends how bad you need to get it running .


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## ben2go

I contacted the guy at Discount Marine and he said that the valve he sent me is the correct part number but wrong valve.He told me the correct valve was made for and by Clinton.Clinton was envolved in outboards but I didn't think they were envolved in eska/tecumseh built Gamefisher outboards. :roll:


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## ben2go

I got the valve it is very close to being like my original.I am going to try it.







On a side note.I got the lower unit off to replace the seals and water pump.Managed to break the side of the cavitation/aireation plate.The power head has to be removed to reinstall the water tube.Just a tip,always use anti-seize on the drive shaft,water tube,and bolts/screws/nuts.Another tip on the Gamefisher with the little red/orange fuel pump element.The element has a little notch in the end.This little notch has to run at a 45 degree angle to the horizontal center line of the carb bolt holes.When I remove the carb I'll try to remember to get a pic of it.


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## JP58

So any updates? I have the 7hp but it looks just like this! I'm also having the same problem with no flow of fuel from the external tank. I also wanted to rebuild the carb but was hesitant after learning about the fuel pump element. After many pulls, idle adjustments and a while to warm up it runs quite well but really takes a while to warm up and shits kind of hard and is really touchy with the choke.


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## ben2go

Our motors may look the same but they're different.My motor is direct drive(no shifting) with 360 degree rotation to allow for reverse.Once she's started I'm moving.Heck, I move every time I a pull the cord.I haven't went any further with the motor.It's looking like I may have to re-ring the piston and hone the cylinder,plus I broke my lower unit cavitation plate.Gotta try to get it welded.There's a little unknown secret about the fuel pump element.It installs at a 45 degree angle.The flat side needs to face up and out towards the fuel line fittings.Took me a while to figure this one out.Another issue especially with the internal tank is the valve.Any little air leak in or around the valve,and the pump can't suck fuel from either tank(external or internal).The valve turns the fuel off/on for the internal tank.Also fuel line size is critical,1/4 inch, no other size seems to work.Same deal with the external tank fitting.If there's any little air leak the fuel pump won't suck fuel.The fuel pumps are weak to keep from over powering the carb's float needle,and flooding the engine.If you're not using an external tank,you can temporarily block the carb hose fitting with a vacuum port cap.If that solves the problem you will know there is an air leak in the external tank fuel line or quick disconnect fitting.If you don't have a service manual,try to get one.I got mine from ebay.Be careful with those.Some are really bad reprints.


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