# Ethanol and boats



## TOY BOAT (Jul 22, 2013)

I will get to the Ethanol portion of this in a sec, but I must bring people up to speed.
Original post of issue https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=31437
So I purchased a 94 15 hp Johnson back in December. In April I had the carb rebuilt. Cost $183. Thanks to Johnny25 on this forum, I did some fine tuning to make it a great little motor. Before I ever started it, I purchased a brand new foam filled metal tank with a strainer on the end of the pick up tube. I also purchased a brand new fuel line. I have had the boat in the water on 8 occasions. I always run through a tank of gas that is correctly mixed 50:1 every two trips. Last weekend, the day started great. Had the boat up to 23 mph after adjusting the trim a bit. All of a sudden, the motor bogged down. Not sure what it was, I limped it back, and put it back on the trailer. I noticed the vent seemed almost closed, but not quite. I figured this might be the issue. So Friday we went out again thinking we found the problem. Got going, got up to about 16 mph, and she started bogging again. Eventually she died, and would not start for about an hour. No one around since it was Friday at noon to help tow us back. Finally got it to start, and got it back to shore. Decided it would be best to drop it off at the Marine place that rebuilt the carb and see what they find. They call and tell me the boat was all set. I ask what did you find, and with there be a charge? They tell me that it will be $288 and that they had to rebuild the carb. I asked why. Friday when I spoke to the guy who rebuilt the carb originally, he said that 2 cycle engine oil is great for stopping the affects of Ethanol, and he was sure that was not the problem, and that since I had a new fuel tank, and line, it must be something else, but he was unsure til he could look at it. So the lady why he had to rebuild the carb again, and why I was being charged for a job he just did three months ago? She said that the carb was gunked up from Ethanol, and that the tech advised going to a plastic tank to keep the rust out of the fuel system. Again. Brand new tank with fine strainer at the end of the pick up, and a new fuel line, and it was not their fault that the gas had gunked up. I also always use Shell 93 octane with Quicksilver 2 cycle oil. 
Both times, the original rebuild, and now, I told them to call me with a diagnosis, and cost. Both times they did the work, then called me with the news it was all set, and what I would be paying. 
Am I getting screwed some how, or does Ethanol really cause carbs to need rebuilding after every three months of use? I feel like I am going on a ride I did not want to go on. It will be fast approaching $500 for a rebuilt carb. I am sure I could have purchased a new one for that. I thought I had done everything needed to give me a good running reliable motor for years to come. What am I missing? I have been around cars and motorcycles my whole life, and this has made me feel like a beginner to internal combustion engines.


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## ckr74 (Jul 22, 2013)

I doubt the ethanol messed the carb up in three months.


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## PSG-1 (Jul 22, 2013)

Ethanol can wreak havoc in older engines, because those fuel systems were designed to handle the older MTBE-based fuel. 2005+ engines are not as sensitive to ethanol, as they are designed to handle it better.

With older fuel systems, ethanol can eat up seals and diaphragms, because it dries out those components (alcohol is bad for doing that). 

It can also break down fuel lines, I've seen the gray outboard motor fuel line with the inner liner collapsed, because it was reduced to the consistency of jelly from the ethanol eating it up. (There is a newer type of fuel hose, blue in color, designed to handle ethanol without breaking down)

So, with pre-2005 engines, it's best to stick with non-ethanol fuel. 

Do some searching on the net about ethanol, you'll find that it's not the miracle fuel the liberals and environmentalists have tried to convince us that it is. 

Just one quick little fact, it takes 30% MORE ethanol gas to produce the same amount of power as regular gas, which means ethanol fuel does not get the mileage or the power output of non-ethanol fuel. It really is junk.


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323281#p323281 said:


> PSG-1 » 57 minutes ago[/url]"]Ethanol can wreak havoc in older engines, because those fuel systems were designed to handle the older MTBE-based fuel. 2005+ engines are not as sensitive to ethanol, as they are designed to handle it better.
> 
> With older fuel systems, ethanol can eat up seals and diaphragms, because it dries out those components (alcohol is bad for doing that).
> 
> ...


Thank you for your response. As for getting fuel without Ethanol. There is no place I am aware of that carries Ethanol free fuel around here.
I thought the grey fuel line was supposed to be Ethanol compatible? How do you avoid what I am going through when you have no choice on fuels? I am really thinking about getting out of boating all together. I just want to get on the water and cruise. This just makes me feel like I am wasting more money to have it happen again. It has removed the fun from it. If it is not one thing, it is something else.


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## PSG-1 (Jul 23, 2013)

While it may be difficult to get ethanol-free fuel at many gas stations, a lot of marinas carry it, because of all the issues with ethanol fuel in marine fuel systems. 

In addition to causing damage to carbs, lines, etc, ethanol fuel has been known to eat up fiberglass fuel tanks, and in aluminum tanks, it leaves behind a yellow powder that almost resembles dry chemical from a fire extinguisher.

Also remember that ethanol is hygroscopic, meaning, it attracts water, and that's the last thing you want in the fuel system of something that's around water! Now, once it attracts enough water, it undergoes a condition called 'phase separation' where the ethanol mixed with water settles to the bottom, leaving the fuel on top. 

Since the ethanol is where the octane comes from in the ethanol fuel, once it goes through phase separation, you end up with high-octane water on the bottom, and low-octane fuel on the top layer. Neither of which burns worth a damn in an engine.

Your best bet is to never allow the engine to sit idle for too long. At least once a month, you need to crank it up and run it, even if it's just in the yard with the hose hooked up to it. This clears the old fuel from the carb and allows new fuel in, which minimizes damage from the fuel sitting in the carbs and breaking down. 

Also, treat your fuel with Sta-Bil (use the blue color sta-bil for ethanol fuel) but remember, after about 3 months, ethanol fuel begins to break down, and you should replace it with clean fresh fuel before you go on the water.

As for the fuel hose, gray hose (unless otherwise specified on its label) is not rated for ethanol. Blue colored hose is what you should use, and it will be labeled as such.


One last thing, if you're in doubt as to whether or not the fuel is ethanol-based, here's how to find out. Take some food coloring, and put a few drops into a container with a sample of the fuel. Shake it and watch what happens. If the fuel is pure, the dye will quickly settle to the bottom. If the fuel is ethanol-based, the dye will mix with the ethanol and dye the entire sample.

Hope this helps.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Jul 23, 2013)

Luckily, I have two stations that sell Ethanol free gas in my town. I hope that I never have to run Ethanol in my boat. It's already halfway ruined a new chainsaw of mine.

This will help you find real gas: https://pure-gas.org/


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## tomme boy (Jul 23, 2013)

We have been running the ethanol fuel here in Iowa since the early 80's. We don't have the problems everyone talks about. Except when someone from another part of the country moves here that never ran it. Then it cleans out the entire fuel system and gums up the carbs and fuel injectors. The ethanol is a very powerful solvent. I don't like it because of the less power it gives. My car gets 4-5 more MPG if I run the non ethanol gas. 

Now, your problem. The mechanic messed up the rebuild and he should have ate the bill. If you paid with a credit card, call the CC company and complain about being ripped off. You will get your money back.


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 23, 2013)

I guess what I am asking is this. I filled the tank for the first time Memorial day weekend. Prior to that, the tank, fuel line, and rebuilt carb did not have any fuel touch it. The tank was never run dry, but filled four times with 93 octane shell. The fourth tank they claimed they had to throw out. 
I guess what I am asking is this. So now a month and a half later, the carb would be so gummed up to need a rebuild again?


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## GYPSY400 (Jul 24, 2013)

Here in Canada , shell 91 octane is ethanol free.. And even still, I can't see the carb being that bad after only 3 months


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## ckr74 (Jul 24, 2013)

The carb can't be bad if fuel never touched it. I guess if the tank had bad fuel it would cause problems. You might want to try a different mechanic. I have ethanol fuel in my tank and sometimes it sets for two months before I use it. Ethanol is not that bad. Maybe the carb wasn't rebuilt in the first place.


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## RAMROD (Jul 24, 2013)

ckr74 said:


> The carb can't be bad if fuel never touched it. I guess if the tank had bad fuel it would cause problems. You might want to try a different mechanic. I have ethanol fuel in my tank and sometimes it sets for two months before I use it. Ethanol is not that bad. Maybe the carb wasn't rebuilt in the first place.


Agree! I use to work 14-14 and didn't always get to run my motors every time I was home so sometimes they sat for a month or two with no problems as of yet.


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## chevyrulz (Jul 24, 2013)

sounds like you need to find a new mechanic, because they robbed you by charging you again to rebuild your carb, especially if they didn't explain in depth what caused the problem & how to avoid it. if they were honest, they'd have at least cut you some break on the full charge for the 2nd rebuild & they'd have tried to help keep you from coming back, rather than hoping you do come back to squeeze more money out of ya. that's not a good way to run a business & an honest shop would never operate that way. now if i'm understanding what you said, you're saying you told the shop, NOT to charge you, but rather to diagnose & estimate the cost, the shop then totally failed to do that & they fixed it then told you that you owed them money? if that happened to me, not only would I not have paid the bill, I'd have had some words with the owner.

to solve the issue, i suggest that you drain the carbs each time you park the boat.

to do that, unplug your gas tank from your motor, & let the motor run until it either dies, or starts to idle very fast. when it starts idling fast, it's out of gas or almost out of gas in the carb. when the carb is running out of gas, the remaining mixture has more air than normal causing the idle to increase.

the next time you go to start the boat, you have to reprime the system, so it's going to take some effort to get it started if you drain the carb. i mean not much effort, but you won't just be able to turn the key or pull the cord. you'll have to keep pumping the primer bulb on the fuel tank until it primes the fuel system filling up the carb & fuel lines. so you will have to pump it up, try to start, & then repeat that process several times until the system is full & the engine fires. if the carb is not full, the bulb will go soft after a couple turn overs of the engine, & this will continue until the system is fully primed

you may need to rebuild or replace your fuel pump if it's been damaged by ethanol. you may need to replace all fuel lines on the motor if they're the old ones which are more sensitive to ethanol




[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323286#p323286 said:


> TOY BOAT » 22 Jul 2013, 21:48[/url]"]How do you avoid what I am going through when you have no choice on fuels?



some advice from my experience w/ 2 cycle engines based on your info:



[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323383#p323383 said:


> TOY BOAT » Yesterday, 19:09[/url]"]The tank was never run dry, but filled four times with 93 octane shell.


I'm not sure if you're saying that you're topping of the tank w/ 1 or 2 gallons to keep it full or not, but if so, it's not a good idea to "top off" a tank of premixed fuel. it's better to run the tank as low as you can, then fill it with an even number of gallons to ensure a proper mixture, rather than adding just 1 or 2 gallons at a time. so you wanna get that 6 gal tank down to 1 gal, then put 5 gal in it (or at least try to run out 1/2 a tank before filling up), so that the new mix blends well with the old gas & doesn't skew your 50:1 ratio. for whatever reason, some engines seem to be more sensitive to bogging from top offs.



[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323383#p323383 said:


> TOY BOAT » Yesterday, 19:09[/url]"]So now a month and a half later, the carb would be so gummed up to need a rebuild again?


it's possible, but not likely. i run ethanol fuel in my boats sometimes, but i don't let it sit because it does gum things up, eat rubber, & attract water, none of which are good for your fuel system. it doesn't hurt your daily driver vehicle, because the fuel is constantly moving & being replenished with fresh fuel. ethanol & sitting are not a good combo. ethanol sitting in your fuel tank is fine, except that if the tank is not completely full, then it can attract water. ethanol sitting in your carb & fuel lines though, is not good, so that's why you should run your carb & engine lines as empty as you can when you park the boat. even ethanol free gas will gum up a carb if left sitting for a long time



[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323286#p323286 said:


> TOY BOAT » 22 Jul 2013, 21:48[/url]"]If it is not one thing, it is something else.


welcome to boating!

i just fought nav light issues on my flats boat, replaced the lights, problem persists, replaced the switch, problem persists, tried to redo the wiring, no luck, after a lot of cursing, hitting stuff & throwing things, & some more cursing, i gave up. this morning I dropped it off at the shop, probably going to cost me $250 to have it fixed by the time i pay labor & parts.

it's really frustrating to me because i know i could fix it if i had the patience. i completely created & wired the electrical system on my jon boat, have installed all sorts of stereos in cars & boats, & generally have a good understanding of electrical stuff. luckily, i have a great boat repair place near me that's trustworthy, quick, & fairly priced so i know who to call when it's time to throw in the towel

you could call a big insurance company like a local state farm agency & ask them if they can recommend a good boat repair shop, or use the internet, or ask around the boat ramp or the tackle shop. if you hear the same place more than once as a good place to go, there's probably a reason for it. that's how i found my shop


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## DrNip (Jul 24, 2013)

That's wild that it is hard to find non-ethanol gas in some places. Here just about ever gas station gives you the option.


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## Ringo Steele (Jul 24, 2013)

That also sound like an extravagent amount to charge for a carb rebuild on a 15 hp too! The kits for mine is only around $25 and it only takes a hour or so to go through it (and that was the 1st time I had ever rebuilt a carb, and I didn't even stay at a Holiday Inn Express the night before!) Just google 15hp carb rebuild, and check out leroy's ramblings. Not much of a job, and will save a ton of cash.

I have been using ethanol 10% for mine and the half-tank left from last fall is still running good in mine. I use the green/blue Stabil and SeaFoam in mine.


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 24, 2013)

Wow. Thanks for all the replies. 
First off, I know the carb was rebuilt the first time. When I say I never ran it dry before filling it. I mean It had about an inch of fuel at the bottom. Because it is foam filled I pour the bottle of 2 cycle into the stream of gas coming from the pump to make sure it mixes as it goes in the tank. After the first rebuild, I did not put any fuel to it until I had replaced the tank, and fuel line. I did not want any issues with a newly rebuilt carb. I hope this better explains what I was saying.
I have Marine formula Sta-Bil Ethenol treatment. I assume this is good to use for my issue?
When I go to pick the boat up on Friday, I will be arguing my case of the fact I did not authorize the repair, and how would it need a rebuild if the fuel has not had a chance to separate, as I use it before that can happen.


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## tomme boy (Jul 24, 2013)

Why is there foam in the tank? The only tanks I have seen that have foam in them are fuel cells used for racing. I hope you are running a filter. If not, that is why the carb was plugged up. It is going to happen again so if this is the case, the mechanic might have had to clean out the carb.


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## JMichael (Jul 25, 2013)

I can understand the possibility of the carb needing to be cleaned out after 3 months but having to rebuild it after 3 months does not sound right. I'd start searching for a new mechanic or learn to work on my own motor if I were you.


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## tomme boy (Jul 25, 2013)

You guys are missing the point of the tank having foam in it. You have to run a filter if you run a foam filled tank. Little pieces of the foam will break off and will clog up the jets in the carb. That is why it needs a filter.


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## ckr74 (Jul 25, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323630#p323630 said:


> tomme boy » 33 minutes ago[/url]"]You guys are missing the point of the tank having foam in it. You have to run a filter if you run a foam filled tank. Little pieces of the foam will break off and will clog up the jets in the carb. That is why it needs a filter.


Never heard of or seen a foam filled tank. Learn something new every day.


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 25, 2013)

I purchased a foam filled metal tank to help keep fuel from sloshing around, and to keep the tank from reshaping itself under pressure like a plastic tank does. The pick up on the tank has a very fine built on screen type filter on the end of it, and there is another screen on the side of the fuel pump. There is no way a piece of foam can make it to the carb. The place that worked on it said that the ethanol in the gas damaged the carb, not junk getting in the carb.


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## PSG-1 (Jul 25, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323634#p323634 said:


> ckr74 » Today, 17:56[/url]"]
> 
> 
> [url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323630#p323630 said:
> ...




Sure do. I've never heard of a foam-filled tank, either. I'd have reservations about using something like that. If water, etc gets in there, I'd guess it would absorb into the foam, and would be difficult to get it out.


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 25, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323641#p323641 said:


> PSG-1 » 58 minutes ago[/url]"]
> 
> 
> [url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323634#p323634 said:
> ...


It is not a dense foam like a fuel cell. It is more like a mesh foam. It can't absorb and liquid. It is there to keep the fuel from sloshing around.


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## RAMROD (Jul 25, 2013)

Sound like a lot of extra surface area for tarnish/gum to build up on. I believe I would try another regular tank to see if that helps.


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## tomme boy (Jul 26, 2013)

The foam filled tanks are used in racing as was started about the sloshing around. So how was it damaged? Was it tarnish that broke loose from inside the carb? That is the only thing that it could be right? If that was what it was, tell them you want your money back. They did not do the rebuild right. Be a little tricky about how you ask them what was stuck in it to cause the rebuild again. Because if he did the rebuild right, there would be NO debris in the carb to break loose. 

Like I said earlier, did you pay with a CC? If you did, do a charge back on them. Then they can fight with the CC company to prove they did what they said they did. 

Oh, here it is only 75/carb for a rebuild


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 26, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=323670#p323670 said:


> tomme boy » Today, 00:08[/url]"]The foam filled tanks are used in racing as was started about the sloshing around. So how was it damaged? Was it tarnish that broke loose from inside the carb? That is the only thing that it could be right? If that was what it was, tell them you want your money back. They did not do the rebuild right. Be a little tricky about how you ask them what was stuck in it to cause the rebuild again. Because if he did the rebuild right, there would be NO debris in the carb to break loose.
> 
> Like I said earlier, did you pay with a CC? If you did, do a charge back on them. Then they can fight with the CC company to prove they did what they said they did.
> 
> Oh, here it is only 75/carb for a rebuild


We have not paid yet. Going down today.


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## 03sp500 (Jul 26, 2013)

Not sure in NH but down here in CT its illegal to charge a customer for a repair with out giving them an estimate BEFORE any repairs are made. check with your DMV on that or at least use your CC and get your rig back and file a claim against them with your CC company. Good luck hope you make out well.


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## Ringo Steele (Jul 26, 2013)

Another thing to check is what kind of parts they used to rebuild the carb with. Some of the older kits had coated cork floats and gaskets that are not made to stand up to the ethanol. Maybe they used a kit that had been on the shelf forever? Something to look into anyway. They should give you the old parts back from the last rebuild if you ask for them.


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 26, 2013)

Picked up the boat today at no cost to me. I decided that since they took the high road with me, I would spend some of the money I saved there, and purchased a new plastic tank from them that they suggested. I left feeling like a valued customer.

Thank you everyone. You advise, and suggestions are priceless.


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## chevyrulz (Jul 29, 2013)

great news, & a great idea on using a conventional gas tank. i was wondering how that foam would react with 2 stroke oil & thinking it may have been related to your dirty carb issue


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## TOY BOAT (Jul 30, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=324062#p324062 said:


> chevyrulz » Yesterday, 11:06[/url]"]great news, & a great idea on using a conventional gas tank. i was wondering how that foam would react with 2 stroke oil & thinking it may have been related to your dirty carb issue


The foam is chemical resistant, and with the screen on the end of the pickup, I doubt any would get by even if it broke free. It will not desolve, or break down if that is what you are thinking. Besides, it is brand new, and designed to keep the fuel from sloshing around.


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## 03sp500 (Aug 1, 2013)

We had foam in the tank of our race quad. One 2 stroke one 4 stroke, never broke down. Great for hitting corners.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Aug 2, 2013)

You don't need a tank designed for racing on a jon boat.


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## nomowork (Aug 2, 2013)

I haven't read all of the postings but my two cents.

I HAD a 1980 something Merc outboard. I also have a 2011 Honda four stroke. Both manuals said to drain the carbs after each use due to ethanol in the fuel.

I also have a 90hp Tohatsu 2 stroke on my glass boat but it is a direct port fuel injection. When I bought the motor new last year, I asked the dealer about drain the fuel after each use but he advised against it as this motor has an two stroke oil priming system and needs the gas in the motor to avoid priming each time. I watched as he did the initial priming and it is time consuming. If not done correctly, it could damage the motor. He told me just to run it every week or so to keep the insides wet and to use Techron injector cleaner in the tank.


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## TOY BOAT (Aug 2, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=324543#p324543 said:


> RiverBottomOutdoors » Today, 08:33[/url]"]You don't need a tank designed for racing on a jon boat.


At the time I wanted a metal tank, not really knowing the affects of ethanol. The only one I could find had foam in it. I did not buy it for the foam.


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## TOY BOAT (Aug 21, 2013)

Found the Hampton, NH airport sells Ethanol free 91 octane gas. So I purchased 6 gallons for the new tank, and car rebuild, and hopefully I will never have an issue again. We took the boat out this past Sunday, and she ran 21mph on plane all day.


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## therobzilla (Aug 22, 2013)

No need to hunt down ethanol free gas, remove the ethanol yourself it's very simple. 

Pour 3 gallons of gas in 5 gallon bucket, pour 1 gallon of water in gas in 5 gallon bucket use a gallon water plastic jug, this equals, 4 gallons total. 

Stir rapidly the water and gas for about a minute or two. 

Cover bucket with old tee shirt so nothing gets into bucket. 

Let sit covered for about 5 minutes. Until water/ethanol have separated from gas, it will sink to bottom of bucket, won't be able to see separation if bucket is not clear, however it has separated but it is below gas. 

Get some clear 3/8-5/16 hose from Lowes/Home Depot. 

Set 5 gallon bucket on something like old cooler or something so it's higher than 1 gallon water jug, make sure not to move 5 gallon bucket too much when you elevate it, put clear hose carefully down side of bucket so it just touches bottom of bucket. Siphon into gallon jug, your gallon jug will fill with water/ethanol mix that has been washed from gas.

The gallon jug will fill more than 1 gallon of water/ethanol mix, when gallon jug is filled stop Siphon hose with finger don't loose Siphon, get another 1 gallon water jug and keep siphoning until you see the color of mix look like gas. Stop Siphon. 

The first gallon is all water/ethanol mix you can dump it down your toilet if you want, it's no different than basically grain alcohol, the second gallon will have a small amount of gas on top depending on how quickly you stopped. 

You now have ethanol free fuel, mix your oil, add your fuel stabilizer, put in empty gas can and go boating. 

It takes very little time to wash the gas. 

JUST DON'T DO IT IN CLOSED CONDITIONS, I DID IT IN OPEN DRIVEWAY. 

Don't believe me, Google removing ethanol from gas.


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## jethro (Aug 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=326925#p326925 said:


> therobzilla » 22 Aug 2013, 01:43[/url]"] remove the ethanol yourself it's very simple.



Oh yeah, that seems real simple :roll:


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## RAMROD (Aug 22, 2013)

Will have to give that a try.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Aug 22, 2013)

LOL...that's pretty absurd. Don't get me wrong...it's cool....but still absurd. You want to pour water into fuel that is going into my $10K motor??? Not to mention who the hell has time to do this? I go through about 24 gallons of fuel a week in my boat.


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## DrNip (Aug 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=326925#p326925 said:


> therobzilla » Today, 00:43[/url]"]No need to hunt down ethanol free gas, remove the ethanol yourself it's very simple.
> 
> Pour 3 gallons of gas in 5 gallon bucket, pour 1 gallon of water in gas in 5 gallon bucket use a gallon water plastic jug, this equals, 4 gallons total.
> 
> ...


Is non-ethanol gas really that hard to find out there in places that you have to resort to this?


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## therobzilla (Aug 22, 2013)

Let's clarify a few thinks, I'm not talking about doing this for 60 gallons of gas, however I use maybe 10 gallons of gas ever maybe 5 weekends out, small motor small boat. 

Gas without ethanol other than race gas, is not available in AZ, and race gas runs right around 7.50 a gallon and where I'm located its 110 octane. 

I just stated a way to remove ethanol from gas, that's it, how you decide to use the information is the readers choice. 

Thanks 
Rob


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## DrNip (Aug 22, 2013)

Anyone know why some states like Oklahoma sell non-ethanol gas at almost every pump or every other pump and then other states likes Arizona doesn't sell it at all!?


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## therobzilla (Aug 22, 2013)

Believe it or not, Arizona has some of the worst air quality in the country, we are fined heavily buy the Fed for not cleaning up our air quality. 

Then someone says "hey if we use ethanol in our gas that will help some" bingo ethanol in fuel everywhere. 

Good luck other than race gas finding gas without ethanol in it in Phoenix. 

We're saving the world one gallon at a time....... :-(


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## RAMROD (Aug 22, 2013)

Yes


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## JMichael (Aug 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=327025#p327025 said:


> therobzilla » Today, 14:54[/url]"]Believe it or not, Arizona has some of the worst air quality in the country, we are fined heavily buy the Fed for not cleaning up our air quality.
> 
> Then someone says "hey if we use ethanol in our gas that will help some" bingo ethanol in fuel everywhere.
> 
> ...


non ethanol gas in Phoenix reported to be found at the following locations. 
Phoenix UNBRANDED octane unknown	Lopers [602-264-5450] 902 E Indian School Rd
Phoenix SUNOCO 87 & 93 octane Speedway Race Fuels [602-276-9250] 2300 W Broadway Rd

But yes, it can be very difficult to find ethanol free fuel in some states. From what I've heard there are several states in the northeast that don't sell straight gas. We had one station locally that carried it up until about 8 months ago when they sold out to another chain. Now if I ethanol free fuel, I have to drive 26 miles to get it.


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## therobzilla (Aug 22, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=327038#p327038 said:


> JMichael » 48 minutes ago[/url]"]
> 
> 
> [url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=327025#p327025 said:
> ...




Yes I have the same app for my phone, these stations report ethanol free gas as being sold, what they don't tell you is that it's VP race fuel. The fuel they sell is U4.4 or VP110, both of which would be too much for small outboard motors. We race offroad Ultra4, and the fuel available ranges from 7.50 to well over 10.00 a gallon, and os not recommended for 2 stroke engines. 

Some states are worse than others when it come to pump gas...... 

AZ is one of these states... 

Thanks 
Rob


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## turbotodd (Aug 22, 2013)

Are "ethanol-free" stations really selling NO ethanol fuels?

I used to have some test strips to test the local station we bought our fuel from. They advertised zero ethanol. I tested. Around 3% typically. We let the station know and they changed their sign to "low ethanol fuel available here". 

it is my understanding that laws state that fuel does not have to be labeled until it reaches 7% or higher, then it requires the sticker that says "up to 10% ethanol content". So could it be that the ethanol content is under 6 or 7% at those supposed "no ethanol" stations? I don't know. I've been out of test equipment for a good while. I did convert a spare carburetor for my Yamaha F25 to Methanol (not ethanol...there is a difference other than the one letter). Race car runs Methanol, might as well try it. I "was" getting it for about $1.50/gal. At least up until recently when there has been a price hike; local gas drilling companies are using it in Frac fluid apparently; or at least the place I was getting it at said that drilling companies use it faster than they can get it, so the price had to go up. The little motor runs great on Methanol. I would not suggest trying to convert, though....unless you have experience with Methanol.


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## JMichael (Aug 22, 2013)

> Yes I have the same app for my phone, these stations report ethanol free gas as being sold, what they don't tell you is that it's VP race fuel.



If the Sunoco station doesn't actually have the 87 and 93 octane that the app says it has, it might be a good idea to edit and update that entry in the app so others aren't mislead by it. It might save others from making a trip thinking they can get those fuels there.


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## nomowork (Aug 22, 2013)

After reading this topic, I decided to ask my son who is a chemist and his reply was: (Take it or leave it as he's a gearhead just like me, just a more educated one. :lol: )

"Yes. Actually you would mix concentrated salt water with the gas to seperate the water soluble material."

I think I'll just keep running my motor and using additives recommended by the dealer where I bought the new motor.


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## RAMROD (Aug 23, 2013)

We must have all posted at the same time, should have said
YES it is hard to find in my area.


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## DrNip (Sep 7, 2013)

I had to go and say something. Looks like 100% gas in OK will be going up and/or going extinct. Gas station up the street from me has a sign on the pump stating 100% gas to increase as much as $0.40 next month so therefor they will start carrying ethanol gas.!!!!

https://www.news9.com/story/23282869/100-percent-gas-prices-to-increase-or-become-extinct-at-okc-stations


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