# Difference in draft with flat bottom vs shallow Vee?



## Jeffrey (Mar 10, 2013)

I realize that flat bottom boats will draft less, while shallow Vee bottoms will ride better in rough water. I am not interested in a deep Vee bottom boat. 

But, how much difference are we talking about? If you had a 1652 flat bottom or shallow Vee like these Alwelds, how much difference in draft are we really talking about?

Then if you added flotation pods to the shallow Vee, how much would that affect the draft and the quality of the ride?

Flat Bottom Boats:
https://www.alweld.com/flat_bottom_econo_jons.html

Bee Bottom Boats:
https://www.alweld.com/vee_bottom_econo_jons.html


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

Draft:
Hardly any difference in the Horse power requirements.
If you want to go easily in shallow or terribly weedy water, the flat bottom is good.
For everything else that Shallow V is better. 
*Except*, when you run that V up on the beach, and try to walk out of the boat fwd, the V will let the boat tip under you.
For us old guys, that's just plain deadly!


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

I called Alweld on the phone. Was told that the shallow Vee would draft about two inches deeper than the flat bottom. I would have thought that the difference might be a little more than that.


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

I'll bet somebody has a Matrix that would show how much Horse power difference between the Drafts.

Also, which bottom would carry more of a load in the water? :| 
IE: 400 Lbs of Humanoid, gear, motor and etc in the V would certainly make it draw more water, which would necessitate more Horse Power.

The flat bottom would spread the footprint of the load over more surface. Drawing less water.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

I wasn't really thinking about there being a horsepower difference. What is the reasoning here?


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

Reasoning:

It's about a choice between going fast or slow, and how much fuel or Horsepower you want to deal with.
I had two 12' Aluminum boats. One is a V the other was a flat bottomed Jon.
Somebody else has the Jon now. I wish I'd never gave it away.

I still have the V and row it (didn't want to fool with a Motor any longer) 
I had the 9.5 Johnson on both. Also had my 6 Hp Johnson on both.

The 9.5 made both boats fly. 
The difference there was obvious in windy or rough water conditions.
The V would operate quickly and safely in bad conditions, but the Jon would take a lot of water over the bow if I tried to push it too fast.

By my GPS the V was faster than the Jon with the same motor. The V got up on plane quicker too.
The Jon is still the safer boat for us old guys.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

Can you comment from your personal experience how shallow you could go at slow speeds with either boat with a similar load?


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

You can go as shallow as the Prop will let you.

The Prop and Skeg is 12" below the Bottom of the boat, which is four inches below the water level.
So 16" would be safe.
If your rowing, you can go into 5"-6" without a problem.

Jet units will let you go in 6" of water if your flying.
But Grass and Lilly pads will choke up a Jet unit.
These are all my own experiences.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

thudpucker said:


> You can go as shallow as the Prop will let you.
> 
> The Prop and Skeg is 12" below the Bottom of the boat, which is four inches below the water level.
> So 16" would be safe.
> ...



If prop depth was not an issue, such as with a longtail mudmotor, then how would the depth of each boat compare?


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm sure the flat bottom would be the 'in depth' winner there. As long as you don't hang up on Rocks....


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

thudpucker said:


> I'm sure the flat bottom would be the 'in depth' winner there. As long as you don't hang up on Rocks....



There is no question that the flat bottom will draft less than the shallow Vee, but the question is by how much? Have you been able to notice?


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> I called Alweld on the phone. Was told that the shallow Vee would draft about two inches deeper than the flat bottom. I would have thought that the difference might be a little more than that.



Unless I missed something, you answered your own question in the post I quoted.
If your boat draws 2" or 4", then that's the depth you can move in.
Let us in on why your asking these questions? 
Moving in shallow water is fun, and exciting some times.
You don't say where your located, but in Florida etc you may get some visitors in your boat while monkeying around in the shallows.
Gators, Cat's, Big Anaconda and Boa's, and Moccasins.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

thudpucker said:


> Jeffrey said:
> 
> 
> > I called Alweld on the phone. Was told that the shallow Vee would draft about two inches deeper than the flat bottom. I would have thought that the difference might be a little more than that.
> ...



That is true but I thought that since you had first hand experience with both types of hulls it wouldn't hurt anything to see what your observations were.


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## thudpucker (Mar 11, 2013)

I liked them both. :LOL2: 
For going to the beach, you build up a little speed and lift the motor as you get to the beach.
The V is better for that action, but the Jon did well too.

Are you planning on fishing in a very shallow place?

I liked the Jon because it was not tippy.
In the Jon you can stand up and fish from any corner. Not so with that V.

I like to row these days. I'd take a Jon over the V because I'm old and unsteady.
Young guys would like the V because it moves better. :lol:


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

I like fishing the saltwater bays along the mid Texas coast. The Vee is better for crossing the open bays and the flat bottom is better for the mud flats and marshes. The Vee is safer and more comfortable while on the open water and the flat bottom allows better access in the shallows once you get there.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 11, 2013)

thudpucker said:


> Draft:
> Hardly any difference in the Horse power requirements.
> If you want to go easily in shallow or terribly weedy water, the flat bottom is good.
> For everything else that Shallow V is better.
> ...



I am not sure that we are using the word draft in the same way. What do you mean when you say draft?


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## thudpucker (Mar 12, 2013)

Use the smallest, lightest outboard you can get by with.
Put the fuel can and battery up front, as you travel across the open water. Move them to the rear when you get to the Bay. Pull the motor up n' lock it.

Then pole around in your shallows from the stern of the boat.

What do you catch? 
Fly fishing or bait casting?
Set up a short Trot line with 5-10 hooks on Snaps and see what you come up with. Some of the Flat Bottom fish are just plain juicy and delicious.
Send some photos of the area.


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## MrSimon (Mar 12, 2013)

I've been in both types of boats. The 2" difference is right on and sometimes its not even that much of a difference. 

But, I'd take the added benefits of the mod-v any day, even if it runs an inch or two deeper .... especially since you'll be on some big water.

With no prop in the water and proper weight distribution, both boats will take you into some seriously shallow water .... shallower than most fish will be in that's for sure .... I've had a 1648 mod-v in 6 inches of water without scrapping.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Mar 12, 2013)

My 1448MV would drift water so shallow that I couldn't even run the trolling motor in it. And that's with a heavy 4 stroke, decked out, 3 batteries and 2 people.

The MV will ride a little better in choppy water than a flatbottom When I say a little better....I mean a little better. It's still going to be a rough ride overall. It's a lightweight, planing hull....it can't do but so well in chop and wakes. The bigger MV hull, the better the ride....mostly due to weight.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback!

Keep in mind that I was asking about a shallow Vee, which is different than a mod Vee. I suspect that the shallow Vee would require a bit more water than the mod Vee, but hopefully by not much.


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## MrSimon (Mar 13, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> I like fishing the saltwater bays along the mid Texas coast. The Vee is better for crossing the open bays and the flat bottom is better for the mud flats and marshes. The Vee is safer and more comfortable while on the open water and the flat bottom allows better access in the shallows once you get there.



The Allweld boats you linked in your first post are actually mod-v jon boats, not shallow V-hulls. I believe that all of the responses have been comparing mod-v and flat front jon boats .... nobody has weighed in yet on an actual shallow v-hull boat.

I'd say a light weight shallow-V can run pretty darn shallow if there is enough weight in the front to balance things out. If you look at the bottom of a lot of shallow-Vs, they are perfectly flat, but the bow (which is above the water line) is in a wedge shape. Although, these boats tend to be narrower that jons and therefore will ride a bit lower in the water.


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## Jeffrey (Mar 13, 2013)

Hmmm. That's kind of sneaky calling their mod Vee bottoms just Vee bottoms when a mod Vee doesn't really have a Vee bottom. A mod Vee is just a flat bottom with a pointy bow.


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## cva34 (Mar 13, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> Hmmm. That's kind of sneaky calling their mod Vee bottoms just Vee bottoms when a mod Vee doesn't really have a Vee bottom. A mod Vee is just a flat bottom with a pointy bow.


 Jeff Let me try to explain.The way I see it I have a 16 f Superior boat with pontoons..Across the bottem at transom its almost flat/ slight V..The tunnel is 15i wide x 8i tall and runs forward about 6f so that takes most of the V out in stern.then from where tunnel starts and forward there incresingly more V as it sweeps toward bow..Its got a 50 Merc 2s..Most of the Prop stays in Tunnel and skag below that.it will idol along in about 8i less than most SV and F bottems..An when your at WOT it will run in less than FOOT...If your anywhere near your welcome to come look...cva34


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## thudpucker (Mar 13, 2013)

I'm of the opinion that a Jon is a flat bottom boat with a Blunt uplifted bow.
For fishing in leisurely water where you can stand up etc. :lol: 

The Pointy bows are specifically to help the planing, and cut through waves etc.
Down here in the shallows, I got out of the boat and walked around fishing. :mrgreen:


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## Jeffrey (Mar 13, 2013)

MrSimon said:


> Jeffrey said:
> 
> 
> > I like fishing the saltwater bays along the mid Texas coast. The Vee is better for crossing the open bays and the flat bottom is better for the mud flats and marshes. The Vee is safer and more comfortable while on the open water and the flat bottom allows better access in the shallows once you get there.
> ...




I was looking again at the Vee Bottom boats at the Alweld web site. I think the only MV boat is the 44" wide one. It looks like the rest of them are really Vee Bottoms.


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## MrSimon (Mar 14, 2013)

The descriptions and names can be confusing for sure.

Everything Alweld makes is considered a Jon boat. They make flat bottom jon boats and what they are calling V bottom jon boats. Most people call their V bottom jon boats mod-v jon boats, but they are basically the same thing. Its hard to tell, but it does look like Alweld might put more of a V into some of their boats than other manufacturers, but its still a jon boat.

A shallow-V boat is not a jon boat. It is a type of V-hull. It looks like this:






A deep-v boat looks like this:





This is a mod-v jon boat:





This is a flat front jon boat:


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## Country Dave (Mar 14, 2013)

Jeffrey said:


> I realize that flat bottom boats will draft less, while shallow Vee bottoms will ride better in rough water. I am not interested in a deep Vee bottom boat.
> 
> But, how much difference are we talking about? If you had a 1652 flat bottom or shallow Vee like these Alwelds, how much difference in draft are we really talking about?
> 
> ...





_If the flat bottom boat and the Mod V boat are the same length and width the draft is going to change only in proportion to the deadrise. 

They are both going to displace just about the same amount of water. Remember an object placed in water is going to be buoyed upwards by a fore equal to the weight of water it displaces. In other words if your hull displaces 30 gallons of water your boat would be forced upwards by the weight of the 30 gallons of water it displaced. Water weighs about 8.3 pounds, so the upwards force would be 8.3 X30= 249lbs. 

So it really comes down to how deep the V/deadrise is. If the bottom center of the hull extends down 2 inches further than the flat bottom hull it will draft 2 inches more than the flat bottom. If you can deal with that the benefits of a Mod V far outweigh the little increase in draft. As far as the float pods, well that’s more about supporting the weight of a heavy stern. It’s going to help a little bit with floatation but again only by displacement. 
I don’t believe the pods adversely affect the ride and control of the boat, in fact I would say they improve it._


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## cva34 (Mar 14, 2013)

Jeffrey You asked on PM and I forgot ...My Superior is 16f then has 15i long pontoons...and its 60i wide on outside bottem and 82i beam...Sides are 24i..cva34


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