# Tough decision/need help



## scoobeb (Sep 16, 2013)

Hello to all,well most people who have seen my posts know i want either a 20hp 4stroke suzuki or a 20hp 4stroke merc.I just found a 15hp 4stroke merc in the box for $2185 which from all the prices i have seen is a steal.I just went to a boat show to try and make a deal on a new suzuki 20hp and the prices were just in sane compared to the price at newoutboards.com of $2695.The cheapest price at the show was over $3k,it just seems no one can even come close to the price that newoutboards has.

The suzuki is what i want but i just don't know if i can pass up a 15hp merc for a hair over $2k,the thing i keep asking myself is how much will i be giving up between the 15hp merc and the 20hp suzuki.I don't know if it will make a difference but the merc has a much bigger displacement at 351 cc's compared to the suki at 327 cc's.I'm wondering if the 15hp merc will have the same power and top speed as the suki because of the larger cc's.Even if it's some what close it may be worth getting the merc for the money dif.The 20hp suki wuill be $2695 delivered to my door,the merc with tax is $2337 for a dif of $358.It's not a monster dif but it's def quite a bit of money.

I saw a youtube video with a 1436 jon boat like mine with a 15hp nissan,(same motor)and it hauled some serious butt.The hole shot was outstanding with 2 people.I just don't want to make a mistake if the 20 will be that much more of a motor.

Any advice on this one?Thanks


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## FerrisBueller (Sep 16, 2013)

I'd maybe go and talk to a dealer or someone who knows those motors well and see what their opinion is. I'd personally say go for the 20hp otherwise you will always be second guessing yourself in the future, and for around $350 extra maybe its the better option for you if you can afford it. But thats just my 2 cents


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## RAMROD (Sep 16, 2013)

+1


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## scoobeb (Sep 16, 2013)

I have been thinking the same,i do know the mercs have a ton of power thats why this is such a tough decision.


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## dkonrai (Sep 16, 2013)

what is the weight difference? merc = tohatsu. so i see that the tohatsu has a lightweight 20 hp 4 stroke. somethihng to think about. not real keen on those suzukis. imho i would go tohatsu/merc the best is yamaha but you pay for it.
dino


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## longshot (Sep 17, 2013)

I have a 15hp 4 stroke tohatsu on a 1544 and it does great good holeshot and 21mph with two people I did put the 18 carb on it though


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## scoobeb (Sep 17, 2013)

I'm def going with the 20hp no matter what brand i get.That is for sure.


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## chevyrulz (Sep 17, 2013)

personally i say neither, but i'd take a suzuki over a merc any day of the week

keep in mind, the merc is much more common to find knowledgeable mechanics or useable parts (because there's more mercs than suzukis around, but also because mercs break all the time, kinda like ford :wink: )

another trade off is the merc has more aftermarket accessories & upgrades than the suzuki

if it was me, & I had to have a new motor, I'd save my pennies for a yamaha or an etec because i prefer my boat in the water not the shop...

a very reliable motor i suggest, is a used 25hp 2 stroke yamaha, you can definitely get one at or under your $2000 pricetag & it will outrun your new suzuki or merc 20 both in speed & longevity without maintenance. it would be a bit noisier though


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## PATRIOT (Sep 17, 2013)

I'll be purchasing new as well . . . *JUST SAY NO* . . . to old school carbureted engines . . . direct port injection is the way to go, no matter the horsepower.
My 2 cents.


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## scoobeb (Sep 17, 2013)

Chevyrules i 'm going to have to disagree with you on the mercs,every merc i have ever owned has run flawlessly.I do love yamaha to.All the major brands of motors are built the same today,they are all built to last.If you want to get down to it,tohatsu makes more motors then anyone else,they build for merc,nissan,evinrude and of course themselves.

All the mercs and yamahas i have owned run awesome when i owned them but for the best deal tohatsu is the best for the money,i really don't want a carbed outboard though,the only carbed outboard i would even consider is a 20hp 4stroke merc because of the ratchet tilt system,it's to me untouchable and the greatest feature on a portable outboard,all tiller outboards should have that system.


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## PATRIOT (Sep 18, 2013)

FYI . . . Suzuki has just released a DF20ATL
. . . 4 stroke, long shaft, electric start, remote control, *power tilt* - Fuel Injected Engine
they added $300 for the power tilt feature on the DF20A.
Looks promising.
Now, if we can drive down the $3445 delivered price tag.


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## SumDumGuy (Sep 18, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=329604#p329604 said:


> PATRIOT » 17 Sep 2013, 11:26[/url]"]I'll be purchasing new as well . . . *JUST SAY NO* . . . to old school carbureted engines . . . direct port injection is the way to go, no matter the horsepower.
> My 2 cents.



Why, curious?


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## thudpucker (Sep 18, 2013)

IMHO :lol: 
That 14' boat will fish a lot of small lakes that do not allow more than 10 Hp on the boat.
Get the smaller 9.5 or 9.8 and you can't go wrong.


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## scoobeb (Sep 18, 2013)

I'm buying the 20hp suzuki tom and i can't wait to get it out on the water. =D>


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## DrNip (Sep 18, 2013)

$358 more, go with the one you want, the suziki.


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## scoobeb (Sep 18, 2013)

Great i just called them a couple hrs ago and they don't have any manual start short shafts in stock and it could be mths till they get them,never fails.  They do have a ton of electric start ones but i really don't want an electric start one but i'm considering it.I'm considering all of the 20hp brands since i'm going to pay near 3k i may as well get a new 20hp tohatsu.Oh well i have to think hard on this now.My decision just got harder.Also to there is a couple of suzuki dealers in my area but spread all over,there is a merc and yamaha dealer within walking distance from me.I talked to the rep on the phone and he said the merc,yamaha,tohatsu and the zuki are all excellent engines,the only dif is the efi vs carb which gives the suki an edge in running smoother and having a crisper takeoff,he said it's also easier to start in cold weather but i don't have to worry in fl,lol.

I guess the one advantage i would have with an electric start is if for some reason i didn't like the 4stroke i could sell it way easier then a manual.I'm also looking with a tohatsu you get a 5yr warranty,all the others offer 3 which is still good,i'm hoping that merc will do the 5yrs again,if they do i will jump all over the 20hp merc.


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## PATRIOT (Sep 18, 2013)

Who are you calling? The only dealer I have talked to on the Suz is port-a-boat in Cal.


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## scoobeb (Sep 19, 2013)

Newoutboards.com


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## scoobeb (Sep 19, 2013)

Ok my choice just got a bit harder,i found 2 mint,i mean mint freshwater 2003 25hp 2stroke mercs for sale by the same guy for only $1850.These motors are i mean flawless.This just made my choice harder because i have been wanting a 25hp 2stroke merc or yamaha to begin with but i gave up after a while as people just wanted way to much for them and the conditions i saw the others in were just junk till now.I also found a few nice 25hp 2stroke yamahas.Man this is a hard choice.


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## RAMROD (Sep 19, 2013)

That money is burning a hole in your pocket!!! LOL


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## scoobeb (Sep 19, 2013)

Yes it is,i just don't want to make a close to 3k mistake though,you know what i'm saying?To many choices to pick from.I have a yamaha dealer in walking distance i went to today and i know them for a long time and they offered me a brand new 2014 20hp short shaft manual start yamaha for $2750+tax which is a great deal,Yamaha always comes out with there extra 2 yrs warranty, so i may wait till that happens if i go with the yamaha.The yamaha is a really sweet outboard,i have just gone away from it because i have been told by a few people they are dogs out of the hole.

I don't know how true that is but from all the videos i have seen on youtube it seems to have a ton of power.I wish i could just test all these motors to see what i like the best.I never thought this would be so hard.I know have the money but i just need to wait for the right deal and be patient.


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## scoobeb (Sep 19, 2013)

I wonder how a 20hp yamaha would do on my 14ft lowe boat with 2 people.It has the largest displacement at 362cc's,my boat weighs 185lbs and is rated up to a 20hp.I'm starting to rethink this whole efi thing.I like the efi but other then having the motor stating easier what advantage would it have?As much as i'm going to use my boat(3 to 4 days a week)the carb will be spotless,plus i use ethanol free gas.Also in fl it doesn't get as cold as other places.I have never had an issue with any carbed motors starting in any kind of cold weather.We have been using carbed motors forever.

Like i said i'm just waiting for the promotions to come back with merc or yamaha or even suzuki,it will come back soon.


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## Ictalurus (Sep 20, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=329841#p329841 said:


> scoobeb » Yesterday, 17:30[/url]"]i found 2 mint,i mean mint freshwater 2003 25hp 2stroke mercs for sale by the same guy for only $1850



I'd grab the two mercs for $1850 and call it a day, that's a great deal. 

I'd take a 25 HP 2-stroke over the 20 HP four, probably weigh less too.


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## scoobeb (Sep 20, 2013)

Sorry i meant $1850 a piece.


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## scoobeb (Sep 20, 2013)

I'm going tom morning to check out the 2 25hp mercs,if they check out i will buy one of them and save close to a grand.I hope there as nice as advertised.


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## scoobeb (Sep 20, 2013)

Well i found out some news on the 25hp mercs,They are wisconsin freshwater motors and one is a 2001 and a 2003 short shafts manual starts.I still believe it may be better if i'm going to spend darn near 2k i may as well go new.


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## lovedr79 (Sep 20, 2013)

Two stroke has a much greater power to weight ratio. I can't find anyone who wants to trade me for my 4. Stroke 20.......


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## scoobeb (Sep 21, 2013)

Ok i have decided to go with the 20hp 4stroke tohatsu,i found a brand new one for $2439 in the box with a 5yr warranty,i think thats the best deal on the planet.The 20hp has a massive amount of power to weight ratio.It's a super powerful motor for a 20hp 4stroke and will be more then enough for what i need,plusw how can i beat a 5yr warranty.The 20hp tohatsu/merc has the low end torque of a 2stroke,it may not be identical but it's darn close.

Go to youtube and punch in 20hp 4stroke merc or tohatsu(same motor)and watch it in action,it has a ton of power.


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## lovedr79 (Sep 21, 2013)

what boat are you putting it on? I have a grizzly 1448 side console and my merc 20 has a hard time with it. I had to put a transom riser on and try a couple props, it does ok now but still not impressed. it does get good fuel mileage and is super quite.


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## scoobeb (Sep 21, 2013)

It's going on a 1436 lowe jon boat rated for a 20hp.I watched a video on youtube with a 15hp nissan on a brand new 1436 alumacraft and the boat was getting it,i mean flying.I'm going to have a 20hp on basically the same boat but i have a lowe 1436,it's the heavyweight edition,but it only weighs 185lbs,the boat it like a feather.The 20hp no matter what i get will make this boat fly i would think,i have been thinking the 25hp merc would just be to much power for it.I don't need a ski boat,lol.


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## scoobeb (Sep 21, 2013)

I watched a video on youtube with the new tracker 16 pro.It had a 20hp merc on it and the guy said he thought he would only get about 12mph and he ran it for the first time in the water and he got 24mph,it even impressed him.That boat is way heavier then a grizzly 1448,that is odd you are having issues,There is also a 1544 monark all welded boat on there that weighs near your boat and it's scooting over 27mph across the water.What yr is your motor because i know the changed them a few yrs back,they use to be 323cc's with a dif gear ratio.


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## lovedr79 (Sep 21, 2013)

Definitely. I wouldbt recomend for a grizzly. I want a 25-40 two stroke


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## scoobeb (Sep 22, 2013)

Here is what i'm also thinking,if i get the suzuki or any of these motors whats even the chance i will even use the warranty unless something goes really wrong,iv'e been told if an outboard makes it through the first yr with no issues then it will probally outlive the warranty no matter how long it is.I should just stick to my first instinct and get the light 106 lb electric start suzuki.Their promotion ends in 8 days so i'm just curious what the next one will be,who knows i may get lucky and they will extend the promotion and add the 15/20efi outboard again.

I will wait till the end of this month and if they don't then i will make a purchase in october.I may as well wait a few more days to see what happens,i'm in no rush.


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## DrNip (Sep 22, 2013)

I still say go for the Suzuki 20 HP.


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## RAMROD (Sep 22, 2013)

Where did you find one for $2439?


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## lovedr79 (Sep 22, 2013)

My experience with the warranty was they found nothing wrong, so I had to pay $300 for them to diagnose. But the carb had been removed, other nuts had been taken off etc. Magically it goes 3 mph faster, starts easier and it hasn't acted up since. But they didn't find anything. So to me the warranty is only good for catastrophic failure


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## scoobeb (Sep 22, 2013)

Brand new 2013 20hp tohatsu at onlineoutboards $2439


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## lovedr79 (Sep 22, 2013)

mine is a 2009 merc. elpt. its not bad but I am disappointed in the power. I have tried several props and the 4 blade 9 pitch seems to do ok.


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## RAMROD (Sep 22, 2013)

Ok I see the manual start one.


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## scoobeb (Sep 22, 2013)

Here is as question i hope someone can answer,when my 3yr warranty is up will suzuki give me a letter to get a few more yrs of warranty as an option?


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## scoobeb (Sep 22, 2013)

Well i just pulled the trigger,a brand new 2013 20hp 4stroke electric start short shaft tiller,$2935,i couldn't wait any longer it was killing me.I just went with my gut,i think this is the winner for me.


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## RAMROD (Sep 22, 2013)

Suzuki?

We hit the river this evening and I threw the long shaft Nissan 9.8 on the boat just because I didn't feel like fighting with a motor for a couple hours of fishing. Our boat is basically the same as the one you have anyway with the long shaft all the way in the water we were getting 17 mph on GPS running with the current so we are definitely going the a new 20 Tohatsu. Just need to sell the 15, 9.9, and 9.5 along with a couple 12' boats first. 

Looking forward to hearing how the 20 performs on your boat!


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## scoobeb (Sep 23, 2013)

Opps yes,suzuki,i'm so pumped up.I have had a few new outboards in my life but i have never actually taken one out of the box and just put it on my stand and polish her all up.I fig i may as well get the electic start for a couple hundred more,when i start adding some electronics to the boat the motor will come in handy to recharge the battery.One of the biggest things that steered me away from yamaha is you get an electric start and there is no pull start if the battery fails,to me that is the worst design i have ever seen in a portable.Plus i just talked to a guy on craigslist who just bought a 2013 20hp 4stroke yamaha from his dad and he originally had a 2008 carbed 15hp suzuki on his boat,he said the 20hp yamaha is a poor accelerating motor out of the hole,he said he would of kept the suzuki if he knew the yamaha was so slow out of the hole,over all he said the top end is good but it takes forever to get there and he has a very light boat.

He said hands down the suzuki has way more power,thats a 15hp carbed motor so i can imagine how much power the 20hp will have with efi instead of carb.I have heard that several times to about the yamaha,that it's a dog but this guy just verified what i have heard from many people who own them.I should have it this week,in a few days.I will post pics when i get it. =D> :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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## shawnfish (Sep 23, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=329611#p329611 said:


> scoobeb » 17 Sep 2013, 12:07[/url]"]Chevyrules i 'm going to have to disagree with you on the mercs,every merc i have ever owned has run flawlessly.I do love yamaha to.All the major brands of motors are built the same today,they are all built to last.If you want to get down to it,tohatsu makes more motors then anyone else,they build for merc,nissan,evinrude and of course themselves.
> 
> All the mercs and yamahas i have owned run awesome when i owned them but for the best deal tohatsu is the best for the money,i really don't want a carbed outboard though,the only carbed outboard i would even consider is a 20hp 4stroke merc because of the ratchet tilt system,it's to me untouchable and the greatest feature on a portable outboard,all tiller outboards should have that system.



all the major brands built today are built the same? built to last? :lol: LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! there has not been an portable (40hp and under) outboard made that was built to last in 25 yrs or so..


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## scoobeb (Sep 23, 2013)

All outboards from one time or another will break down,If you expect to buy an outboard and never have an issue with it thats never going to happen,built to last means it will run for a long time but all outboards no matter what brand you get will have issues from time to to time from wear and tear.I bet this outboard i'm buying will last over 25yrs if taken care of.You also have to look at most people and how they care for their motor,if you neglect it and never flush it or do the maintenance of course it's not going to last,but if you take good care of it and do all the proper maintenace it will last for a long long time.

Will a brand new car last for a long time if taken care of,sure will unless it's a lemon.Most if not all the outboards of today are built to last just like a car(BIG KEY=====IF PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF),.They were built on the car motor idea,look at the hondas and most of the suzukis they are built on their car motors,yes they must alter the parts i'm sure to withstand the marine world(salt).I would almost bet anything a properly maintained 4stroke or 2stroke outboard would last easily well over 5000 hrs,thats allot of yrs and to me thats built to last.

Also you say no motors were built to last in over 25yrs,what about the 25hp 2stroke merc,bulletproof,to me all the yamaha and merc motors of the 90's and 2000's were bulletproof,Again if well taken care of.

The reason motors don't last is people abuse them and beat the crap out of them and never maintain them.That is the only reason they won't last,like i said unless you just get unlucky and get a problem motor which today is very rare.I bet out of all the major brands of outboards,i would guess that 1 to 2% have any issues,give or take a point or 2.

The technology today is way advanced then it was yrs ago.Look at the optimax's and the etecs,they are built to last.I don't know if you have had alot of issues with todays outboards but todays outboards are built to last,one more time(IF TAKEN CARE OF).


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## shawnfish (Sep 24, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=330200#p330200 said:


> scoobeb » Yesterday, 15:44[/url]"]All outboards from one time or another will break down,If you expect to buy an outboard and never have an issue with it thats never going to happen,built to last means it will run for a long time but all outboards no matter what brand you get will have issues from time to to time from wear and tear.I bet this outboard i'm buying will last over 25yrs if taken care of.You also have to look at most people and how they care for their motor,if you neglect it and never flush it or do the maintenance of course it's not going to last,but if you take good care of it and do all the proper maintenace it will last for a long long time.
> 
> Will a brand new car last for a long time if taken care of,sure will unless it's a lemon.Most if not all the outboards of today are built to last just like a car(BIG KEY=====IF PROPERLY TAKEN CARE OF),.They were built on the car motor idea,look at the hondas and most of the suzukis they are built on their car motors,yes they must alter the parts i'm sure to withstand the marine world(salt).I would almost bet anything a properly maintained 4stroke or 2stroke outboard would last easily well over 5000 hrs,thats allot of yrs and to me thats built to last.
> 
> ...




when I think built to last, to me that means it was built to take a lickin and keep on tickin when you ride it hard and put it to bed wet. kinda like the energizer bunny, it just keeps going and going and going... and in the case of outboards there is only one family of small portables (40hp and under) that can wear that badge, that would be the OMC's built roughly from 1960 to 1990 with the exception of a couple different hp models for a couple years. I know lots of guys(myself included) who own these motors who have had them for a long time and all they do is change the oil and put new plugs in them and they will start and run year after year after year. my motor was bought new in 1980 by my grandpa who in turn gave it to me when he was not able to use it any more due to age and I know for a fact that all he or myself has ever done to this motor is change the lower unit oil and put new plugs in and besides a year or so ago has never had one thing on it replaced besides the skeg when I hit something on the river, and that's when I replaced it along with the impeller,housing and fuel pump because I cracked the old pump by getting the bolts too tight after taking it off and putting it on wich is my fault, I should not have had it off in the first place and this is just one example. this generation design of outboards for the most part did not change for 30yrs because they got it right the first time so why fix something that is not broke. you say todays technology is far more advanced and that is why outboards will last a very long time if properly maintained wich may be true but like I said built to last to me means built to last, not built to last as long as you replace parts etc,,,, that break or get worn out because they do not last and the old OMC's are the only ones who fit that billing. remember sometimes simple is far better than complicated and when you build something with more links in the chain to fail so to speak the chances are better that one of those links is going to fail and then your chain is useless......take a look around when your on the water and you don't see 20-50 yr old outboards that don't have Johnson/evinrude on the covers, theyre easy to spot because there are thousands of them out there still lasting........


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## scoobeb (Sep 24, 2013)

Well imo i believe the outboards today are way better built then the motors of past,the motors get better gas milage,run quieter,have dfi or most of the newer motors have efi.I never said the motors of old are bad,i just think the motors of today,again if taken care of will last forever,or as long as you own them.I don't like any one brand of outboards but i will say in my experience i have had nothing but horrible luck with evinrude/johnson.I know more people probally own those outboards more then any other to.I don't think their a junk brand,i just have owned 5 of those motors and all 5 broke down within a mth or 2,If i had to buy a 25hp to 30hp today it would be an etec hands down,i have owned a few 25hp 2stroke mercs from the 90's and 2000's and i have never had one issue with any of them,i love yamaha and tohatsu to.The best motor i have ever owned was a 9.8hp 2stroke tohatsu,bulletproof.

All i can do is take extra care of this suzuki and i have no doubt it will last many many yrs with no issues.I love 2strokes but the 4strokes are getting lighter and lighter today and the have efi or dfi.The suzuki is only 106lbs and efi.I have never actually run a 4stroke on the back of a boat and i can't wait to.


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## scoobeb (Sep 25, 2013)

Well here she is,brand new in the box.


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## RAMROD (Sep 25, 2013)

Are the butterflies eating you up?


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## scoobeb (Sep 25, 2013)

You know it RAMROD.In about a week i will be on the water.I read the whole manual,low and behold you can use any fcw oil and if thats not available then you can use any sae certified motor oil.They suggest 10w40 for all around use.The breakin is not as bad as i thought.This book for breaking in is well updated from the book of old.Basically you need to take it easy for the first few hrs and then you need to vary the rpms up and down for the following 7hrs.It does state not to do wot for more then 5mins at a time.Basically i have thought this is the way to do it all along,it does say you can open it up to get on plane but to then cut it back to like half throttle.

I have alot of work to do on my boat.


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## RAMROD (Sep 26, 2013)

Awesome!
You are giving me the itch awful bad! I went and put my hands on a NIB 20 Tohatsu and am trying to hold off till I sell some things, not sure I will be able to when you start posting your stats!


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## shawnfish (Oct 4, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=330334#p330334 said:


> scoobeb » 24 Sep 2013, 19:14[/url]"]Well imo i believe the outboards today are way better built then the motors of past,the motors get better gas milage,run quieter,have dfi or most of the newer motors have efi.I never said the motors of old are bad,i just think the motors of today,again if taken care of will last forever,or as long as you own them.I don't like any one brand of outboards but i will say in my experience i have had nothing but horrible luck with evinrude/johnson.I know more people probally own those outboards more then any other to.I don't think their a junk brand,i just have owned 5 of those motors and all 5 broke down within a mth or 2,If i had to buy a 25hp to 30hp today it would be an etec hands down,i have owned a few 25hp 2stroke mercs from the 90's and 2000's and i have never had one issue with any of them,i love yamaha and tohatsu to.The best motor i have ever owned was a 9.8hp 2stroke tohatsu,bulletproof.
> 
> All i can do is take extra care of this suzuki and i have no doubt it will last many many yrs with no issues.I love 2strokes but the 4strokes are getting lighter and lighter today and the have efi or dfi.The suzuki is only 106lbs and efi.I have never actually run a 4stroke on the back of a boat and i can't wait to.



right on man, I can respect that but lets just say we'll agree to disagree  I just like the KISS theory. ive never had any experience with anything but johnny/rudes and they haven't let me down yet. that's a pretty sweet lookin lil rice burner ya got there, kinda interested in hearing how it works for you. on a side note... if I were to ever buy a brand new(who knows,even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while) 25-40hp I would buy an evinrude without a second thought and having said this I know absolutely nothing about post early 90's motors but I like the brand. why do you like the e-tecs so much? just curious..


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## scoobeb (Oct 6, 2013)

I like the power to weight ratio and the fact there is no breakin.This is why i say imho opinion what makes the etec any different in technology from the 4strokes besides the fact that it's a dfi and a 2stroke.I just don't believe the 4strokes need a long breakin like the book says,to my suprise,the suzuki manual is not what i thought it would be,to me it's actually more up to date then any other manual i have ever read in the past.Finally a motor brand who says you don't and shouldn't baby your outboard on breakin.The manual is imo the way all motors should be broke in.

I just like the power of the 25hp etec, i have watched hundreds if not thousands of hrs on youtube of the 25/30hp etec and it's a beast of an outboard.I really like this suzuki also,this is my first.I can't wait to get it on the water.I'm fixing my trailer now and putting a floor in my boat.Just a piece of half inch plywood,carpeted in the front and back.I'm not going to do anything special to this boat because this is just a temp boat for a yr or 2.


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## PATRIOT (Oct 7, 2013)

Since you've got it in your hot little hands =D> . . . can you verify whether or not it has a MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor?
Maybe from the parts breakdown or a shot from under the cowl?
Also, does it have an aux 12V output anywhere to power nav lights?


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## scoobeb (Oct 7, 2013)

I will let you know,i haven't taken it out of the box yet,i'm working on my trailer first,then getting the boat done,then i will mount the motor on last.


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## RAMROD (Oct 10, 2013)

Hurry up!!! Lol
Cant wait to hear some reviews!


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## scoobeb (Oct 11, 2013)

Darn it i knew i should of waited just a bit.Yamaha has a 6yr warranty deal going and suzuki has $200 rebate on the 20hp i just bought,oh well.


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## ducktrooper (Oct 15, 2013)

Let us know when you test that 20 HP suzuki. What I like about them is the are about 20 lbs lighter than comparable Merc or Tohatsu....97 lbs. for the manual and a few more for electric version. That makes a big difference if you're constantly having to live cowling up to shallow drive setting when coming into shallow water or navigating rocks, shoals, etc. 

I love the gear in handle feature of the Merc..never have to use 2 hands or turn your back/eyes away from out front. Always a trade off but I've read great things about Suzuki on other forums.


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## scoobeb (Oct 15, 2013)

Yes i love the merc to,that is what i wanted forever.That was the motor i had my heart set on till this suzuki came out last yr.The merc is awesome to me,built in tiller handle for all functions,the ratchet tilt system is the best idea anyone has come up with on a tiller portable to me.The suzuki i have is an elec start at 106lbs,efi,and the price of a new manual merc was more then an elec start suzuki i paid for,so it was a no brainer after doing over a yr of research.It was tough in the beginning but as i read more and more on the suzuki it became clear this was and has been a no brainer,i just had my mind set on the merc for so long thats what steered me away from the suzuki.


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## scoobeb (Oct 19, 2013)

Well i 'm moving up slowly,finally got it out of the box,i wanted to see how hard it would be to change the oil,you need to take the whole right side(were the fuel filter is) of the motor off,not to bad,very easy as a matter of fact,i called a suzuki dealer to see how much it would be to change the oil for kicks,they told me $75,i said are you kidding me it takes less then 10 minutes to do it.The oil is only $8 bucks and the filter is like $6 to $8 depends on were you go.They must be out of their mind.I can change my oil almost 6 times for that price.

Anyway it's only 5 screws you need to undo and the side pops off easy,remove the rubber gasket were you can work on just the side your on,remove the red tube and black tube going to the gas,right next to eachother,move the fuel filter out of the way and wallah the oil filter sits right under the round cap,3 bolts hold it in.


P.S MAKE SURE YOU HAVE A PERFECT FIT SCREWDRIVER FOR THE SCREWS BECAUSE THEY WILL STRIP EASY,I LEARNED THE HARD WAY.You can use a ratchet for some of the screws also that are easy to get to.Thats what i would use as the screws are extremely soft and one wrong move and it's stripped.Just fig if someone wanted change their oil and save a ton of money here is the way,if anyone has one and needs further help let me know,it's very simple.If it were me i would change the oil at least 2 to 3 times on breakin to get as much or all the metal particles out of the oil,goes for the lower unit also,Just imo.

For my first 3 oil changes(10hr breakin)i'm going to use royal purple breakin oil for the engine and just good old reg super tech lower unit oil for the lower unit.After i finish the breakin i will swith over to full synthetic royal purple engine and lower unit oil.Then do an oil change every 50hrs or so.

SORRY I'M VERY ANAL ABOUT MAINTENANCE.Better to be safe then sorry.


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## tomme boy (Oct 19, 2013)

I used a nut driver instead of a screwdriver. Works much better. Make sure you get the right filter. The ones on Ebay are the wrong ones. They changed the filter when they made these fuel injected. Don't forget to get an O-ring for the plate as well. Better to have one and not need it. I tried to find a aftermarket filter and the new # does not cross reference to anything yet. Maybe in a year or more once there are more of these out there.


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## scoobeb (Oct 20, 2013)

Tomme boy the number for the filter is 16510-45h10 and they do sell them on ebay,tons of them.


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## tomme boy (Oct 23, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=332486#p332486 said:


> scoobeb » 20 Oct 2013, 01:52[/url]"]Tomme boy the number for the filter is 16510-45h10 and they do sell them on ebay,tons of them.



There is only one person selling the filter with the new #. I sent a email to K&N to do a cross reference check. For right now till I heard from them, I would not buy any on the K&N filters listed on there for the df15. The Suzuki #'s are different from the df15 to the df15a. Or the 20 as you have.


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## scoobeb (Oct 23, 2013)

There is a video on you tube with a guy who changes the oil in 20aes suzuki which is the one i have,he i believe works for suzuki in i want to say russia or one of those foreign countries and that is the exact filter he used while changing the filter for the oil,that was the exact fit for what i have and from what i have seen on ebay they sell tons of them but it doesn't matter anyway because i'm going to buy at my local suzuki dealer right down the road,if either of the 3 in my area doesn't have them or is way to expensive then i will go the ebay route.

I don't like buying anything on ebay unless i have to.


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## tomme boy (Oct 23, 2013)

OK, let me say it a little better so you can understand. That # you have is the right # for the fuel injection motors. There is only one place on Ebay right now that is selling that #. The other filters on there are for the df15 and df20 and df9.9. These motors are carbureted and the # for the oil filter is different than the one for the EFI motors. No one has a filter out besides Suzuki for these motors right now. That was why I put an email into K&N to see what they have to say about the new part# from Suzuki. 

Can I ask how old you are? 21-25?


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## scoobeb (Oct 24, 2013)

Suzuki never made a 20hp carbed 4stroke,trust me i know that for a fact,15hp yes they made a carbed motor on that.All of suzuki's new 15's and 20's are efi,they also are making all the 9.9 efi's.I get what your saying.Call suzuki as i did they would know more then anyone,thats were i get my info.It's all good though i will find it,and thank you for warning me of that to just so i had a heads up. :mrgreen:


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## turbotodd (Oct 24, 2013)

I have no experience with Suzuki, other than I borrowed a boat that had an old DT25 3 cylinder on it.

Do have experience with the 15 and 20 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke though. It's not a bad motor at all. But you can see where costs were cut. Manual choke. Exposed shift linkage. Vibrates a little more. Noisier. Comparing to Yamaha F15/F20. I've run the Tohatsu...power tilt model 20 HP, like I said it's not a bad motor at all. I just didn't have anything else to compare it to other than the Yamaha's.

Sounds like you got what you wanted, and that is awesome. Let us know how goes it with the new 'zuke. Like I said, I have ZERO experience with Zuke and would like to see feedback.

Break-in? Just run it. If it breaks within the first couple hours of use, it was going to break anyway and then we'll see how Suzuki will handle it.


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## scoobeb (Oct 25, 2013)

Thats the first time anyone has made sense on the breakin.Ty.Most people seem to think you have to baby these things in the beginning and that is the worst possible thing you can do for them.I hear all the time suzuki or any manufacture will deny a warranty claim if you don't follow the brekin peroid,that is so false.I have owned like i said a few brand new ones and i had an issue with one and i don't just go wot out of the box but i do run it hard and vary the rpms up and down for like 5hrs.I go wot for like 5 to 10 min every once in a while to.Merc dealer did not mention a thing about breakin when i took it in to get fixed,he could care less about the breakin.

If i had to guess,now this is a guess,i would say maybe at best 20% of people who buy a brand new outboard go by the breakin because they just can't control wanting to hit that wot and thats a good thing they just don't know it.It has to be run hard to seat the rings properly.Yes it needs to have a proper warm up everytime you go,say a good 5 min at least then just run it as you normally would and there will be no issues unless as you stated no matter what speed you go it just had issues from the start it just hasn't happened yet till a few hrs later.

I love tohatsus, i have owned 5 of them,i just wanted a new brand i have never owned before and this seems to be the keeper for the long term.


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## airbornemike (Dec 8, 2013)

Bump! Any updates on this? Suzuki is coming out with a 25hp version this spring and I need to make a decision by march.


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## scoobeb (Dec 8, 2013)

What do you need to know,if the 20hp suzuki is as good as advertised?The 25hp suzuki looks interesting but it's a bit away from coming out.As soon as i get my boat in the water i will give you wot speeds and how it runs.It should be tom or tues i'm going to do all my testing.I'm going to get an 11 and 12 pitch prop for it,i have heard many stories so far from other forums that the motor has so much power that the 10pitch prop over revs and you need at least an 11 pitch prop.I will let you know how it runs with the 10pitch prop.


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## airbornemike (Dec 8, 2013)

Thanks, I'm just weighing my options. I'm deciding between a 20hp and a 25hp,I'm powering a 250lb skiff hull. I've been researching all the outboards like a psycho, the Suzuki low weight is very appealing. How is the shallow water trim? I will be skinny and on rivers a lot so I'm curious if tilting the engine a number of times throughout an outing will be a PIA.


[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=336097#p336097 said:


> scoobeb » Today, 12:11[/url]"]What do you need to know,if the 20hp suzuki is as good as advertised?The 25hp suzuki looks interesting but it's a bit away from coming out.As soon as i get my boat in the water i will give you wot speeds and how it runs.It should be tom or tues i'm going to do all my testing.I'm going to get an 11 and 12 pitch prop for it,i have heard many stories so far from other forums that the motor has so much power that the 10pitch prop over revs and you need at least an 11 pitch prop.I will let you know how it runs with the 10pitch prop.


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## scoobeb (Dec 9, 2013)

Tilting it is a breeze.I thought the same thing,i thought it would be a pia.It's got 2 shallow water trim positions.I am going out for the first time today on a lake to do test runs,wot speed with the 10pitch prop.I know i will have to get an 11pitch prop when i'm alone i would think.My boat weighs in at 180lbs so it's only a few lbs lighter.I think you would be way better off with a light 106lb 20hp then a 150+25hp.Plus the dif in price is quite a bit.I will let you know all what i feel about this motor after i do a bunch of test to see speed at wot and other throttle ranges,ease of use of the outboard,i will say it's a piece of cake to pull start,pull it till you feel the compression kick in,then release it back to the motor with your hand on it still,then do a full pull,not to hard but enough to engage the efi to start it and thats it.

It will run rough for like the first 10-20hrs because it needs some use on it to break in all the parts,they need to mesh good together.That is expected though.With use it will get better and better.Try to use non ethanol gas if you can,if not it won't hurt it if you use the gas within a mth that's in the tank.I use this stuff called k100,go to k100.com and read up on it,the best stabilizer for gas on the market.Iv'e tried it all,i mean it all and this stuff blows everything out of the water.It will keep gas good for a yr,even ethanol.I use it in my car,lawnmower,weed eater,boat,etc....Anything that takes gas.When i get my permanent boat i will use a yamaha fuel/water seperater to try and eliminate any water of dirt in the fuel.

I will give you an update asap.


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## airbornemike (Dec 11, 2013)

Update on your splash?


[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=336148#p336148 said:


> scoobeb » 08 Dec 2013, 23:44[/url]"]Tilting it is a breeze.I thought the same thing,i thought it would be a pia.It's got 2 shallow water trim positions.I am going out for the first time today on a lake to do test runs,wot speed with the 10pitch prop.I know i will have to get an 11pitch prop when i'm alone i would think.My boat weighs in at 180lbs so it's only a few lbs lighter.I think you would be way better off with a light 106lb 20hp then a 150+25hp.Plus the dif in price is quite a bit.I will let you know all what i feel about this motor after i do a bunch of test to see speed at wot and other throttle ranges,ease of use of the outboard,i will say it's a piece of cake to pull start,pull it till you feel the compression kick in,then release it back to the motor with your hand on it still,then do a full pull,not to hard but enough to engage the efi to start it and thats it.
> 
> It will run rough for like the first 10-20hrs because it needs some use on it to break in all the parts,they need to mesh good together.That is expected though.With use it will get better and better.Try to use non ethanol gas if you can,if not it won't hurt it if you use the gas within a mth that's in the tank.I use this stuff called k100,go to k100.com and read up on it,the best stabilizer for gas on the market.Iv'e tried it all,i mean it all and this stuff blows everything out of the water.It will keep gas good for a yr,even ethanol.I use it in my car,lawnmower,weed eater,boat,etc....Anything that takes gas.When i get my permanent boat i will use a yamaha fuel/water seperater to try and eliminate any water of dirt in the fuel.
> 
> I will give you an update asap.


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## scoobeb (Dec 11, 2013)

Sorry not yet,i'm going to try and head out tom morning.


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