# Power tilt & trim vs gas assist



## Tbradley (Aug 17, 2016)

So I'm looking at getting an Alweld 1752 flat. Was first thinking a tunnel hull with pods to help protect the foot. I know there are mixed feelings about tunnels and flat bottoms, so I'm keeping the idea of no tunnel open for now. The problem I have with no tunnel is with a motor with power tilt & trim and you hit something it won't kick up or kick up as easily if it didn't have power tilt & trim. Now one of the motors I'm considering is the Merc 60/40 four stroke jet. I was on the Merc website and it looks like you can get it with either power tilt & trim or gas assist so you could leave the motor unlocked. The gas assist looks like the way to go if one goes without a tunnel, that way it would kick up if you hit something.

I know that you'll lose the ability the tuck the motor in at take off then trim up while on plane, but wouldn't the ability to leave it unlocked with the gas assist be better after you found the best setting for trim with your load for the day? That's what I currently do with my Merc 25hp prop now, I don't have power tilt & trim. Just tuck it in if I'm by myself and adjust the pin to other settings when the load changes (more people etc...).

What do you guys think??


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## onthewater102 (Aug 17, 2016)

Or you can get an aftermarket tilt/trim to go with the motor without factory tilt & trim and have the best of both worlds. You'll have the breakaway transom clamp on the motor and the fine adjustment of tilt & trim from the aftermarket tilt & trim unit such as a Panther 55.


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## Tbradley (Aug 17, 2016)

onthewater102 said:


> Or you can get an aftermarket tilt/trim to go with the motor without factory tilt & trim and have the best of both worlds. You'll have the breakaway transom clamp on the motor and the fine adjustment of tilt & trim from the aftermarket tilt & trim unit such as a Panther 55.



That unit has a 7" setback, that would not be a good combo with the jet.


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## Tbradley (Aug 18, 2016)

Anybody have experience running both?


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## JL8Jeff (Aug 18, 2016)

I've run both but generally I have no need to trim it other than when I pull up to my dock. I have a tunnel and I need to run the motor tucked all the way in (I'm by myself 99% of the time) but I've never hit anything yet. Tilting the motor was not the easiest thing with me weighing around 150 lbs so I put power tilt/trim on mainly for that purpose. If you have other people in the boat a high percentage of the time, the fine tuning of power trim really works well.


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## Tbradley (Aug 18, 2016)

Looks like your running a 60/45, did it have the gas assist before you put power tilt/trim on?


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## JL8Jeff (Aug 18, 2016)

Tbradley said:


> Looks like your running a 60/45, did it have the gas assist before you put power tilt/trim on?



Yes, I bought a new tilt and trim kit and added it to the motor. It wasn't exactly the correct year kit so the relays aren't in the right location but everything works fine.


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## Tbradley (Aug 19, 2016)

The Merc 60/40 I'm looking at weights in at 267 lbs, do you guys think the gas assist would really help or assist in tilting the motor up. I've read on other forums that guys with gas assist on motors of this size say that they can lift the motors up easily with the assist, just push down on the tiller while grabbing the back of the cowling, no problem. 

I just think the ability of the motor being able to kick up when you hit something would be much better than locked in with power tilt/trim. Am I thinking wrong on this guys??


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## handyandy (Aug 19, 2016)

I only have gas assist on my old merc two stroke 60/40 and I'm able to tilt it up with just the tiller handle if it didn't have the tiller and only had the cowling to grab it would be hard. I like the gas assist it has allowed my engine to kick up a number of times when I've hit a log or something else which seems to be unavoidable sometimes.


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## redrum (Aug 19, 2016)

I have the tilt assist on my Evinrude and it has the break away feature you are talking about. I've hit stuff and it works great popping up to help reduce damage. Actually I've hit stuff so hard the cowl has come flying off into the boat but that is another story.. big reason I wouldn't want a tiller.

However, I'm in the process of converting to power tilt and trim now after riding with a few friends who have it. The ability to tuck the engine under is GREAT when you overload a jet. Sometimes I fish with a loaded 25 gallon bait tank and it can really hurt performance. Having the ability to trim down to get on plane and then back up for top end would be great. I was under the impression the power units would unlock as well. That could be a deal killer. 

If your boat will be setup for a pretty consistent load out then manual tilt / trim will probably be fine.

Oh and with PTT you trim up and blow a stream of water all over the place...thats a plus right?


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## Tbradley (Aug 19, 2016)

redrum I was under the impression the power units would unlock as well. That could be a deal killer.
[/quote said:


> I have a friend that has a Merc 60/40 four stroke with power tilt/trim and there is no UNLOCK feature that I can find. The hydraulic piston goes up to the motor where it is connected with a large pin, no way to unlock. Now I've heard if you hit hard enough the impact may over come the hydraulics and the motor may come up, but that's going to be a hard hit they may cause damage to the foot I would think.
> 
> His motor is mounted too low and the leading edge of the foot is an 1" or more below the bottom of the hull which causes a host of other things that need to be dealt with. The way it is now he scared to death to run it very shallow because he may snag a log, rock or plow the bottom on riffles and with the motor locked that would be very bad.
> 
> After seeing his with power tilt/trim it had me thinking about the gas assist after I saw the option on Merc's website.


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## redrum (Aug 19, 2016)

I can attest that having the outboard unlocked helps a lot when you have one of those intake grate bending underwater impacts. I'd like to have PTT for when I have a heavy load but I'm definitely rethinking it now. I guess that is another advantage of running a tunnel hull.

According to the service manual for my engine the PTT models have an impact relief system built into the hydraulic cylinder. Here is the page from the manual. I don't know about other engines.


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## dhoganjr (Aug 21, 2016)

On a 1752, without a tunnel, you should see speeds of 30+, if it is set up correctly. I have seen where impacts at lower speeds, where the motor was unlocked, flipped the motor into the boat. Although rare, it can happen.

I will never own another jet without power trim/tilt. When properly set the lip will be above the bottom of the hull, most impacts will contact the rear half of the shoe. While running on plane you will be trimmed out and the shoe should be almost level with the hull. It should slide over logs without issue.

On plane with PTT, if you think you are going to hit or it gets really shallow, you can bump the trim up past level for short distances and most of the time clear without the shoe contacting.

As was already mentioned, with it you take off with it tucked under and trim out as you come on plane. Best of both worlds, you don't have to constantly manually adjust to different loads for takeoff or planing speeds. In heavy chop you can bump the trim down to pull the bow down and absorb some of the impacts. When you need to plane out fast with a heavier load you can trim out to almost level before you take off. This causes the bow to climb out of the hole and on top of the water faster, then as the bow gets on top you can trim down to raise the transom up and then trim up slowly as you gain speed. This is a trick I used when I was under powered with the 115.

Plus it makes reverse a little more effective, it doesn't allow the motor to kick up when you put it in reverse. You can stop in about 2 boat lengths if you have too.

Resale value, easier to sell and worth more with PTT.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Aug 21, 2016)

PT&T on my 60/40. I also have a flatbottom tunnel hull. My foot has taken a few licks. When I'm at risk for an impact I trim all the way down because I want the leading edge of the foot tucked in. Don't think I would ever give up PT&T.


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## Tbradley (Aug 22, 2016)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> PT&T on my 60/40. I also have a flatbottom tunnel hull. My foot has taken a few licks. When I'm at risk for an impact I trim all the way down because I want the leading edge of the foot tucked in. Don't think I would ever give up PT&T.



Seems to me you'd want to trim out so the foot would be higher?


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Aug 22, 2016)

Tbradley said:


> RiverBottomOutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > PT&T on my 60/40. I also have a flatbottom tunnel hull. My foot has taken a few licks. When I'm at risk for an impact I trim all the way down because I want the leading edge of the foot tucked in. Don't think I would ever give up PT&T.
> ...



You have to remember that trim works on a pivot so when you trim the motor up it actually swings the leading edge down. Also trimming the motor up moves the foot further away from the hull creating a gap that can cause your foot to hang logs etc that you slide over. You don't want to take a lick on the leading edge of the foot, that will cause severe damage to the foot and most likely your transom.

That's my take on it anyway.


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## archery68 (Aug 22, 2016)

Everything dhoganjr said!!!! He is right on imo. I have owned 3 flat bottom jets and run them in south Missouri. All tiller boats. First two were non power trim and really thought they were the way to go. Have had a Mercury 60/40 tiller now for a year and dang what a difference. Love power trim. Nice little button on the end of the tiller made for your thumb, my hand is there anyway. Would hate to not have power trim now. As stated above, when trimmed, u hit the back half of the shoe. I have hit twice now and only thing with some rock scratches was at the very back. 


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## Tbradley (Aug 23, 2016)

archery68 said:


> Everything dhoganjr said!!!! He is right on imo. I have owned 3 flat bottom jets and run them in south Missouri. All tiller boats. First two were non power trim and really thought they were the way to go. Have had a Mercury 60/40 tiller now for a year and dang what a difference. Love power trim. Nice little button on the end of the tiller made for your thumb, my hand is there anyway. Would hate to not have power trim now. As stated above, when trimmed, u hit the back half of the shoe. I have hit twice now and only thing with some rock scratches was at the very back.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I was hoping you'd see this thread being you have the exact motor setup. So you don't worry at all about taking a hit driving the tiller with the motor locked down?? I can see all the benefits of the power tilt/trim it's just the fact it's locked. Do you know if you did hit bad enough would the motor kick up?


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## archery68 (Aug 23, 2016)

Tbradley said:


> archery68 said:
> 
> 
> > Everything dhoganjr said!!!! He is right on imo. I have owned 3 flat bottom jets and run them in south Missouri. All tiller boats. First two were non power trim and really thought they were the way to go. Have had a Mercury 60/40 tiller now for a year and dang what a difference. Love power trim. Nice little button on the end of the tiller made for your thumb, my hand is there anyway. Would hate to not have power trim now. As stated above, when trimmed, u hit the back half of the shoe. I have hit twice now and only thing with some rock scratches was at the very back.
> ...


I run on clear rivers with mostly gravel bottoms, so the worse I have done is suck up some rocks and dulled the impeller. I am a more experienced operator now than I was and generally only go where there is plenty of water, it's skinny in places but it's just gravel. I don't worry bout it really. I have insurance and not sure I want that big motor coming towards me or tiller bar smacking me. Don't know if it would kick up or not, haven't hit anything and hope I don't. 


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## Tbradley (Aug 24, 2016)

[/quote]I run on clear rivers with mostly gravel bottoms, so the worse I have done is suck up some rocks and dulled the impeller. I am a more experienced operator now than I was and generally only go where there is plenty of water, it's skinny in places but it's just gravel. I don't worry bout it really. I have insurance and not sure I want that big motor coming towards me or tiller bar smacking me. Don't know if it would kick up or not, haven't hit anything and hope I don't. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote]

See that's the thing. My rivers aren't that clear, just mainly in the riffles where it's shallow. We have large rocks all the way down to gravel and sand. I've had the tiller bar on my 25 Merc hit me a couple times, then I learned to sit to the side of it on the rear bench so it couldn't get me or my knee. I sit straddling the rear bench, much easier for me to drive that way. So you can see for my questions on the gas assist vs power tilt/trim.


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## archery68 (Aug 24, 2016)

Oh I fully understand your reasoning for your questions. The truth is I haven't hit anything. At the lake I don't worry bout hitting anything. I run couple of different rivers and there are big boulders but I can see them. The river I run the most the shallow spots are gravel. I glad to have power trim. Did not have it on other motors I have had so when I bought this one it had it and I love it. If my new motor would not have had I still would have purchased it. 


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## handyandy (Aug 25, 2016)

There are times when I'd like power trim for being able to fine tune for speed when I'm running a open stretch. But the kick up of the gas assist saves my intake a lot of times when hitting logs or rocks has been unavoidable. I've switched to a rock proof intake for more insurance I like it so far it takes a hit pretty well. I've had my motor kick up on me plenty when I've slid over a log or hit something I've never had my tiller hit me. But then again I have a storage box going along the side of my boat that I sit on so I'm not in the middle.


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## Tbradley (Aug 30, 2016)

Well a call to Mercury about the specs on their website has proved there is a misprint. The person I talked to told me the Merc 60/40 jet only comes with power tilt/trim and I double checked on their brochure online and it states power tilt/trim only.


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## dhoganjr (Aug 30, 2016)

My guess is, once you run it and get used to the power trim, you will wonder how you ever got by without it.

My boat is heavy and I have had it since August 2002. In that time I have busted 2 shoes. The first one was on the 115 running at night when I hit some chunk rock. The second time was with the 250 on the big rock on my video, it was a sideways hit. I have had numerous straight on hits over the years, rocks, stumps, and logs, several hard hits. Most times it will just scrape off paint, put a small gouge here or there, and bend the grates.

Running shallow you will take an occasional hit, but if it is set up right most times it will slide on over like it is designed to do. Those shoes are tough, mine has 500 lbs of motor weight setting on top of it.


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## archery68 (Sep 1, 2016)

dhoganjr said:


> My guess is, once you run it and get used to the power trim, you will wonder how you ever got by without it.
> 
> My boat is heavy and I have had it since August 2002. In that time I have busted 2 shoes. The first one was on the 115 running at night when I hit some chunk rock. The second time was with the 250 on the big rock on my video, it was a sideways hit. I have had numerous straight on hits over the years, rocks, stumps, and logs, several hard hits. Most times it will just scrape off paint, put a small gouge here or there, and bend the grates.
> 
> Running shallow you will take an occasional hit, but if it is set up right most times it will slide on over like it is designed to do. Those shoes are tough, mine has 500 lbs of motor weight setting on top of it.


Agree to all this. 


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## dimecovers3 (Oct 1, 2016)

With gas assist and not having a tiller to help with pulling on a 60/40 Merc is tilting up to clean the grate a bear? Can you do it just by pulling on the cowling or is that too much work too often on some rivers where stuff gets clogged often? I like the idea of the motor kicking up but not all the way into the rear deck passenger. Does the built in impact assist on the Merc power T & T really help with hard hits without the motor coming up too far as it seems can happen on gas assist and let you get to the shoe for cleaning a lot easier plus all the fine tuning benefits? Sounds like the best compromise having never seen one but wanting this particular motor for next rig. I assume the factory set back is a lot less than an aftermarket power unit....is that accurate? On a custom boat is there an ideal transom height for this motor on a tunnel hull for getting the most out of fine tuning?


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## JL8Jeff (Oct 1, 2016)

I weigh 150 lbs and have a short shaft 60/45 Mercury 2 stroke and I had to put both feet against the transom and then pull up on the cowling(hood) to tilt it up and lock it. It wasn't that big of a deal since the gas assist would help once you got started tilting. Once in a while, if I wasn't paying attention it would come up short and then go back down and tilt me up. I'm not sure how much the gas assist absorbs an impact, I have a tunnel and I've never hit anything.


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## dimecovers3 (Oct 1, 2016)

Sounds like gas assist is not an option anyway oo it's power for me plus I know that four stroke outweighs your two. I'm glad riverbottom clarified that caused it struck me as opposite too till I read his reasoning. How many of you guys are using aftermarket poly shoes and can you still get one for the 60/40 Merc? Seems I read the guy making them stopped.


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## handyandy (Oct 6, 2016)

I have one of the rockproof UHMW intakes I bought only a few months ago you just have to call rock proof boats might have to leave a message or try again. They aren't a huge shop with someone at the phone all the time. I have a older 60/40 two stroke merc. The four strokes still use the same outboard jet as the old ones they just have a different drive shaft too fit the four strokes so my extra AG model outboard jet I have for parts I could buy a new drive shaft for it and bearing rebuild kit cause it would need to be used again put the new stuff in it and it could go on a new four stroke. So the rock proof intake should work on your four stroke. I don't know where abouts you live but if your close or ever close to me you can check mine out.


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