# Holmes 14' Valco project! Edited with lots of pics!



## Jdholmes (Sep 24, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I found this forum a few months back and seeing some of the projects knew I would never be satisfied just to leave a boat as it was!

I waited to find the right deal for a few months and finally came across the right one for my first boat. I found a 70's 14' Valco with trailer that has a 'Sears Gamefisher' sticker on it. The boat is rated for a 20HP motor and like 950 lbs. It came with a Johnson 10HP 2 stroke, a never used Minnkota 50lbs. thrust transom troller, a brand new in box portable Humminbird 400TX fishfinder, a new in package minnkota drift sock, an anchor mate thing mounted in the boat to drop and retrieve the anchor from the stern, a brand new gas tank and hoses, and the old one, a magnetic tow light kit as a spare, a couple spare trailer tires and a few oars. Got it all for $500 bucks! Felt like a good deal to me.

The only catch was that he hadn't had it out in a couple years so the motor may need some tuning, but was working great when he used it last and had just had a tune up then. Then his wife died and his knees went bad so he hasn't used it since...I am hoping it is going to fire right up. The wood seats are dried and cracking up and the transom probably needs replaced too. Either way I think it was still a deal.

So...It is bare aluminum and I want to paint it in a white and black scheme to match my truck. I have started sanding the hull with a 60 grit sandpaper...its a lot of work. Do I actually have to do this sanding process with the bare aluminum or can I just clean it with something and then use the self etching primer?

Thanks!


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## Ringo Steele (Sep 24, 2011)

I'm fairly new here to, so welcome from another newbie!

Looks like you got a great deal on that rig. I like your intended paint scheme too. Looks like a natural on that hull. Hopefully someone will chime in soon with the info you need on prepping the aluminum for the paint job. I just repainted mine after stripping it to bare metal, so it probably won't be too much different. I just sanded after the stripping, washed, then wiped down with acetone and used a self=etching primer, then 2 coats (so far) of tractor and implement paint, as that seem to be a tough paint. Mine was by Valspar, so it should last a good long time.


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## Jdholmes (Sep 24, 2011)

Thanks! I noticed a lot of people here have to strip their job first, which is why I am wondering if I even have to sand it at all...no paint on mine.

I have a pretty good feeling about the paint scheme...I thought about doing it reverse with two black and one white, but didn't think it looked as clean...and my truck is white.


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## Jdholmes (Sep 25, 2011)

Bump for opinions. I know there are some answers out there.


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## jdbassin2003 (Sep 25, 2011)

Hopefully someone that has much more experience will chime in here but even though you have a bare hull it still must be prepped, Aluminum forms an Aluminum oxide layer when it comes in contact with oxygen, This layer will prevent paint from adhering properly. So to answer that part of the question, yes, you need to sand or chemically prep the hull before you prime it.


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## Jdholmes (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks! I thought that may be the case....would chemicals be easier? And is 60 grit too rough?


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## flintcreek (Sep 26, 2011)

Yes, 60 grit is way too rough for just scuffing up the aluminum. Use a 220 or so grit sandpaper and then use the self etching primer. Looking at the picture I would not spend long going over it with the 220 especially if you have a DA or Jitterbug sander. I like the white with the black stripe should look sharp. 

Good Luck,
Flintcreek


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## Brine (Sep 26, 2011)

Nice rig Jd. Sounds like a great deal, and that color scheme looks sharp. 

flintcreek has it right. Give it a light scuff, wash it, wipe it, and get to priming. 

What are you going to do on the inside?


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## Jdholmes (Sep 26, 2011)

Thanks for the replies! I am glad to hear I should stop with the 60 grit...I didn't even get half done on the first side so now I will switch to a finer grit instead. 

The inside I am still not 100% on. There is paint on the inside that is partially flaking so I figured I will wire brush/sand the loose stuff, use a self etching primer and then maybe paint it with a spray truck liner...

I have been thinking of cutting the middle seat out, doing a platform from the transom to just a couple inches past the rear seat, and then another platform from the front seat to the front of the bow using the seat as a support...still working that out. I will probably do it in stages for budget.

Any suggestions from your experiences?


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## Jdholmes (Sep 29, 2011)

Here are some more detailed pics of the boat as it was when I got it.

I took the lower end off the motor as you will see in the pics - the impeller was in great shape so I will keep it as is and just replace the oil.

I am not sure on the transom. If you look close in the pics you will see that the brace has cracked at the highest point...not sure if that is going to be a big deal.

There is a circular thing mounted on the back of the boat that you can see in one of the pics...anyone know what it is?

There seemed to be a little water come out before the oil started pouring out...is that normal? Oil seemed quite dark with a little yellowish green tint when a thin layer coated the bowl...

A couple wires in the back of the motor housing seem a little dried out and brittle...but otherwise seems to look good to me...you?

Comments and suggestions more than welcome.


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## aeviaanah (Sep 30, 2011)

Yea that is damn near the exact same boat I got. Good luck! -off to work. Ill stop by later!


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## V8_TITAN (Sep 30, 2011)

looks like you grabbed a nice one. any luck on starting that motor ? the carb on that motor is super simple and easy to take off, I believe it is only 5 screws to take it off, and the bowl stays on the motor so you can clean everything just by taking the screws out, and the choke cable.


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## Jdholmes (Sep 30, 2011)

Hey! Thanks! I haven't started it yet, but everything looks like it should start up alright to me...

I am having trouble getting the lower shift rod to reconnect to put it back together...that is annoying.

Also I have all of the bolts off the transom now but can't seem to get the transom out yet...it looks like they might have glued it to the rear of the boat...anyone run into this?

Had to drill out a few bolts cause they were rusted too bad...glad I didn't try to just put it on the water. The seats and flotation were rotted pretty bad...will post pics later.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 1, 2011)

Whats up man? You got anything planned for the weekend?


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## Jdholmes (Oct 1, 2011)

This weekend I am trying to get the transom off and get the lower end of my motor back on...can't seem to get the shift rod to connect back to the upper.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 2, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> This weekend I am trying to get the transom off and get the lower end of my motor back on...can't seem to get the shift rod to connect back to the upper.


Right on...today I did a bit of body work. Removed the bracket at the bow, cleaned it all up...replaced rusty hardware. 

I also filled with water to check the seal job...no leaks  I can get ready to coat inside with truck bed coat or epoxy. I havent decided. I also cleaned up the pieces at the top of the boat that run from the transom to stern. They were painted on the inside, i removed paint. I like the aluminum look for that.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 2, 2011)

Make sure you post pics...I was planning on paint the entire inside...I'd like to see how yours turns out with the aluminum up there. I actually had thought I may be able to attach a small conduit along that upper lip to run wiring without it looking too bad.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 2, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> Make sure you post pics...I was planning on paint the entire inside...I'd like to see how yours turns out with the aluminum up there. I actually had thought I may be able to attach a small conduit along that upper lip to run wiring without it looking too bad.


Interesting, why not run wiring under the deck and seats? Then add floor on top. Are you adding a floor? I'm still thinking about it.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 2, 2011)

That is probably a better idea...I was thinking of doing the floor a couple inches above the bottom...in which case I could run a PVC pipe under that...probably cleaner. Then I could run an elbow to where it exits for anice clean look...

I was thinking maybe if I put the pink foam on the floor and then ran a couple angle supports on the sides and near the bottom of the seats I wouldn't need any vertical support for the floor...make sense?


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## aeviaanah (Oct 2, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> That is probably a better idea...I was thinking of doing the floor a couple inches above the bottom...in which case I could run a PVC pipe under that...probably cleaner. Then I could run an elbow to where it exits for anice clean look...
> 
> I was thinking maybe if I put the pink foam on the floor and then ran a couple angle supports on the sides and near the bottom of the seats I wouldn't need any vertical support for the floor...make sense?


Yea that makes sense. This is what I am doing as well. You may need a runner across where the two boards meet in the center. Typical plywood is 48 in wide...your boat width is larger, meaning it will have to be in two pieces. The deck area between the front seat and middle seat should be supported enough, the deck at front will need a ledger angle. I will just cut 2 pieces of angle iron about 4-6" long and rivit to body of boat. If you raise deck a few inches above bottom you could add fishing pole holders under the deck. I was afraid the boat may be too unstable as the higher the deck the farther the center of gravity. A 12' boat isnt that stable to begin with. 

What kind of conduit/elbows you using? Maybe a plastic water line would suffice. Irrigation stuff?


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## aeviaanah (Oct 2, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> That is probably a better idea...I was thinking of doing the floor a couple inches above the bottom...in which case I could run a PVC pipe under that...probably cleaner. Then I could run an elbow to where it exits for anice clean look...
> 
> I was thinking maybe if I put the pink foam on the floor and then ran a couple angle supports on the sides and near the bottom of the seats I wouldn't need any vertical support for the floor...make sense?


Yea that makes sense. This is what I am doing as well. You may need a runner across where the two boards meet in the center. Typical plywood is 48 in wide...your boat width is larger, meaning it will have to be in two pieces. The deck area between the front seat and middle seat should be supported enough, the deck at front will need a ledger angle. I will just cut 2 pieces of angle iron about 4-6" long and rivit to body of boat. If you raise deck a few inches above bottom you could add fishing pole holders under the deck. I was afraid the boat may be too unstable as the higher the deck the farther the center of gravity. A 12' boat isnt that stable to begin with. 

What kind of conduit/elbows you using? Maybe a plastic water line would suffice. Irrigation stuff? I just realized that picture of your boat was photoshopped lol....I like the paint job idea!


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## Jdholmes (Oct 2, 2011)

I think I should be able to do it in one piece by rotating the plywood lengthwise...the space between the seats I don't think is wider than four feet...I I'll have to measure, so basically using the board as a 8x4 instead of a 4x8 if you catch my drift.

I don't want to do the bottom floors any more than a few inches up for now. I might do a rod holder a little later. I want to keep it as simple as possible to start.

The conduit I was looking at was just a PVC sewer pipe about an inch in diameter...look at the plumbing supplies at lowes or home depot...it is easy to cut and has all kinds of different angled elbows you can use to come back up from the bottom of the boat to an exit at a nice gradual angle. The thing with running wire is you want a nice slope up - sharp angles will make it harder to push the wire through. You also want it a wide enough diameter that it will have lots of space for as many wires and their possibly large ends as you will need.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 2, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> I think I should be able to do it in one piece by rotating the plywood lengthwise...the space between the seats I don't think is wider than four feet...I I'll have to measure, so basically using the board as a 8x4 instead of a 4x8 if you catch my drift.
> 
> I don't want to do the bottom floors any more than a few inches up for now. I might do a rod holder a little later. I want to keep it as simple as possible to start.
> 
> The conduit I was looking at was just a PVC sewer pipe about an inch in diameter...look at the plumbing supplies at lowes or home depot...it is easy to cut and has all kinds of different angled elbows you can use to come back up from the bottom of the boat to an exit at a nice gradual angle. The thing with running wire is you want a nice slope up - sharp angles will make it harder to push the wire through. You also want it a wide enough diameter that it will have lots of space for as many wires and their possibly large ends as you will need.


Are you decking from the bow to the first seat or to the second seat? From the bow of my boat to the second seat was around 72" I had to use the plywood length wise. Ill be waiting to see what you come up with. I'm with family right now, otherwise I'd be workin on the boat.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 2, 2011)

This is where I am at right now.

I will post the two problems in my next post.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 2, 2011)

Here are my two current issues I am trying to deal with.

1. Getting the lower shift rod to reconnect to the upper...I can get it all lined up and seem to be in right and tighten the screw...then when I begin to let go the rod just slips right back out...

2. Having a heck of a time with the transom removal. After digging around with my drill and buck knife I found out why. They apparently put huge staples between the first and second layers of plywood before putting it all in....from the back...nice of them. :x It means there is no way I can get it all out in one piece...luckily I dont need it for a template, it is pretty straight forward. Here is a pic of the staples. This is not going to be fun. I am thinking return the drill and buy a rotozip to cut it up with...


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## aeviaanah (Oct 2, 2011)

Sorry I cant help much with the motor, dont know a thing about em. This is why I just got back from Bass pro...i put a deposit down for a 2012 Mercury 4stroke 15hp. Should be ready in a few weeks. Just go to town with the transom, youll get it out!


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## Jdholmes (Oct 6, 2011)

Finally got my transom out! What a job that was! 

I ended up buying some rotozip bits for my dremel 4000. I cut along the borders where the aluminum lips were, this seemed to do the trick. I didn't go all the way through cause I didn't want to mess up the aluminum back of the boat by mistake, so I just went almost all the way through and then ripped it with my hands. After I got the big pieces out the others weren't much work. Took about 15 minutes. I will post pics in a bit.

As far as replacing the transom...if you can see in my pics above it was done in a T shape and by the way turned out to be five pieces connected by staples and pressure. 

I think I would rather just do one big shape that goes down further to the bottom of the boat. Would this be better or worse for any reason?


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## Jdholmes (Oct 6, 2011)

Ok! Well, seems like there are a lot of looky-lous here and not a lot of responders, so I figured I better just go out and start figuring things out...actually I am just spontaneous and didn't want to wait.

I couldn't find wood with thick enough to use for the transom so I knew I would have to laminate something. Most of the woods wood have been too thick with two layers, and the only one that would have worked was pine...pine is soft...pine is bad.  

Sooo...how to make a 52" wide transom 1 1/4 inch thick? I decided to use five layers of 1/4 inch oak ply. That should do the trick. Using contact cement and clamps. 

I am going to go ahead and put the nix on the old T shape they used orginaly and make a deeper rectangle...this one will be 52"x13 1/2" which will bring it down to just below where the bottom starts curving in. Best of all it will be one solid laminated piece at 1.25" instead of 5 pieces hodge lodged together with staples and pressure.

Will of course post pics of the process.


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## Rat (Oct 7, 2011)

The laminated transom will be much stronger than dimensional lumber, good decision. Also, make sure the glue you are using for the lamination is water proof and seal the whole thing up very well. I would go all the way to the bottom of the hull with the transom as well. This adds a little more weight but also adds a degree stiffnes to the transom. This will also make it easier to add bracing and such later if you want to. You can attach accessories (bilge pumps, battery boxes etc) to the transom with screws without having to go all the way through the hull with bolts. 

On the shifter for the motor. There is a detent in the shaft that the connecting bolt must engage. The upper lower shaft slips into the bracket and the bolt must be inserted after the shaft is inserted to engage the detent. So, plug the shaft in, insert bolt, tighten it all down. If you try to insert the shaft with the bolt in place the shaft will not clear the bolt and the bolt will not engage the detent; it is a very close tolerance fit.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 7, 2011)

Thank you for the reply!

Glad to finally get a response on the shift rod thing!

So to be clear, the bolt you are talking about inserting /after/ the rod is inserted...this is the silver screw in the picture that goes into the brass coupler? 

Because if so, I had just left it in but loose....almost all the way out but not out. That could very well be the problem...my head doesn't see the issue, but maybe it is a magic thing that is beyond my comprehension...I shall try removing it completely.

As far as bringing the transom to the floor, the 13.5 inches will bring it fairly close. The strips are already cut so I will stick to that. For additional stiffness I will cut a couple small blocks, seal them and connect them to the hull with a strong adhesive...this is something they had done previously and I ripped them out as they were rotted. So I will have those plus a much deeper transom than was originally there...should be much better. 

Planning to do contact cement for the layers adhesive and seal with three layers of spar urethane.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey whats up man, stoppin by to check on ya. Sounds like you did close to what I did with my transom board. What you mean by laminate tho? I used 3/4" ply and glued to 1/2" ply making 1 1/4". My transom board also goes close to the bottom, I think I have two inches of clearance. I had to cut a little bit out for access to the drain plug. 

Good to hear you are gettin that motor figured out....I'm gettin ready to paint the inside today...that is, if nothin else comes up. Ill start coating the transom boards as well.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 7, 2011)

Hey! 

When you take separate pieces of plywood and glue them together it is often referred to as laminating them.

The lowes here did not have 1/2 and 3/4 inch in a hardwood...yeah, I was disappointed at the poor selection of wood here in Vegas. Home depot was the same. I come from the east coast and there is a lot more options there. Also neither of the stores here seemed to have the pink closed cell rigid foam insulation like back home. All I can see is the plain styrofoam.

Look forward to your progress pics! *nudge nudge* I have some to post today as well.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 7, 2011)

Had an 'Oh Crap!' moment a little bit ago. I went down to start on stacking the wood for the transom...I lined up a piece for the fun of it and there it was..."Oh, crap!'...

The wood is going to be just above the top of the drain hole...which is great...but it also means I can not get it into place without removing the transom brace that is riveted to the floor! I really do not relish putting a hole in the bottom of my boat, but I see no other option.

So...once I drill that brace off, can I just replace it with stainless steal bolts and seal it with some 5200 or am I going to leak? Thanks in advance for advice!

Oh and here are pics as promised!


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## aeviaanah (Oct 7, 2011)

I had to take the gusset off as well. Go ahead and grind em off from the bottom of the boat, then beat it thru from the outside in. 

You can go and buy some aluminum low profile tinners rivits. I got a few, if you cant find any shoot me your address ill send ya some. They should match your boat as they match mine. You will need a setting tool, its basically the profile of the rivit. I took a piece of round bar and drilled a hole this goes on the head of the rivit...then someone else can beat the shank which swedges it out and creates a seal. Since its the bottom of the boat, you may not need the tool, it will just flatten the head of the rivit...taking away from its nice appearance. If you decide to do the bolt idea, it shouldnt leak with 5200 but a aluminum rivit will look better and last longer.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 10, 2011)

Alright, got the transom all glued together. Still need to treat it with spar urethane. I was kind of dissappointed with the way the contact cement turned out for gluing the transom boards together. It isnt horrible but it certainly has some spots where it didnt take and the edges are lifted up. I had to cut away part of the bottom and that took care of most of the loose points, but there are still a couple points along the top edge that arent stuck together well as I would like.

I am not too worried about that though, I will feed a little in and reclamp it. I guess the problem was that the wood must have absorbed it a little too much in some spots. I did coat it with two coats to try and make a non porous layer, but I guess an extra may have been necessary for a perfect bond.

I had read that clamps werent necessary with contact cement - not true...definitely needed the clamps.

I had to remove the bracing for the transom in order to fit the board in. I dont think I will be able to use rivets again, as I didnt get it perfectly centered. Now in some spots there is almost a double sized hole. Any suggestions on this? Maybe fill it with JB weld and then drill a new hole through that?

Here are some new progress pics.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 10, 2011)

lookin good man, you can get close ended pop rivits. just measure the size hole you have and buy a rivit accordingly. tinners rivits come in a variety of sizes as well as pop rivits.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 11, 2011)

Was looking at an ad on craigslist that came up yesterday for a 25 hp evinrude Longshaft or a 20 hp merc short shaft electric start. Either one for $500...

Considering switching out my 9.5 Johnson for one of those maybe...opinions?

Here is the link with pics. https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/2643289291.html


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## aeviaanah (Oct 11, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> Was looking at an ad on craigslist that came up yesterday for a 25 hp evinrude Longshaft or a 20 hp merc short shaft electric start. Either one for $500...
> 
> Considering switching out my 9.5 Johnson for one of those maybe...opinions?
> 
> Here is the link with pics. https://lasvegas.craigslist.org/boa/2643289291.html


Go check em out, have em start em both up...Make a decision then.


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## fool4fish1226 (Oct 11, 2011)

For that price buy both of them


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## Jdholmes (Oct 11, 2011)

Thing that worries me is I haven't heard great things about older mercs...

And the evinrude is a long shaft.

Anyone have experience with those issues?


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## aeviaanah (Oct 11, 2011)

Here is the new thread man, I have a mod v not a deep v....

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22339


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## Jdholmes (Oct 11, 2011)

Looking good on your thread.

Was in home depot scouting around for ideas today. Found what I think may be a cheaper alternative to angle iron if anyone is interested! They sell 6 foot lengths of anodized aluminum stair noses that seem to be the exact same as their 1/16th angle and have one inch lips. The price is only $9 for them.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 11, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> Looking good on your thread.
> 
> Was in home depot scouting around for ideas today. Found what I think may be a cheaper alternative to angle iron if anyone is interested! They sell 6 foot lengths of anodized aluminum stair noses that seem to be the exact same as their 1/16th angle and have one inch lips. The price is only $9 for them.


Good find. I work in a metal shop, thank god. I have been able to get lots of material for free. Did you see the piece I formed up for the back of the transom? You figure anything out today? Get anything done?


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## Jdholmes (Oct 12, 2011)

Yah your piece looks awesome. I have only ever worked with wood, so I am not a little like a fish out of water with all this metal stuff. I wish I had more experience working with it.

Got a very little done today. Put some JB weld on the top part of my transom support bracket, where it was cracked a little. And the holes that I miss drilled in the bottom of it I filled with JB as well, to try and fix that. Also put some contact cement in the gaps of the transom board and clamped it again. 

The next couple days I should be able to push out some more work. Will try to get the transom sealed and installed, vacuum it out and spray paint the inside. Bought the spar urethane today and already have the self etching primer. 

I have done a lot of thinking trying to figure out if I want to deck from the front to the rear of the middle seat, to the front of the middle seat or just do to the back of the front seat. The other idea I had was to do a high deck to the back of the front seat and then cut out half of the middle seat and do a low deck that goes from the back of the front seat to the front of the rear seat. I just haven't been able to decide on a plan!


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## aeviaanah (Oct 12, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> Yah your piece looks awesome. I have only ever worked with wood, so I am not a little like a fish out of water with all this metal stuff. I wish I had more experience working with it.
> 
> Got a very little done today. Put some JB weld on the top part of my transom support bracket, where it was cracked a little. And the holes that I miss drilled in the bottom of it I filled with JB as well, to try and fix that. Also put some contact cement in the gaps of the transom board and clamped it again.
> 
> ...


That jb weld isnt going to hold up. Boats flex at a different rate then the jb weld, what happens is it will crack out. I tried jb weld where the top of my transom was cracked....also tried it where the rivits hold the seat to the stern. Both cracked out. I tried a putty epoxy as well, no luck. I would use the 3m 5200, its strong and it flexes. You should have grinded the back side of the rivit as I suggested...


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## Jdholmes (Oct 12, 2011)

I am not too worried about it, those top two bolts won't going to make or break it now with a nice strong transom.

I tried to cut the bottom of the rivets with my dremel wheel but it wasn't getting in nice enough to do a clean job and I worried that it was actually going to cut into the boat and be worse than drilling it out...usually I get a nice clean job with a drill. Worst case senario I will use bigger bolts in the bottom like a 1/4 or so inch instead of the 3/16 rivets.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 13, 2011)

Got it primed and started coating the tranom. Here are the pics.

Odd thing - now that the primer is dry, a lot of it has a dark dusty residue that you can wipe away with your finger on it...what is that?


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## fool4fish1226 (Oct 13, 2011)

Did you use spray cans? If so it is probably over spray. Just wipe it down good before you do your final paint.


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## Jdholmes (Oct 13, 2011)

That makes sense, thanks. I probably should have sprayed it in the parking lot and then pushed it back in the garage to dry...there was a lot of floating fumes going on.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 13, 2011)

Yea its overspray....be sure to wipe the boat again before you add the second coat. I pressure washed mine then wiped real well with a rag. Lookin good!


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## Jdholmes (Oct 13, 2011)

Well I wiped it down with acetone and a cloth...think I will do the floor with bedliner tonight...maybe.


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## aeviaanah (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, lets see some pictures!


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## kycolonel138th (Oct 19, 2011)

:USA1: MORE MORE! =D>


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## Jdholmes (Oct 20, 2011)

Haha! Thanks! I will post pics of how the berliner came out tomorrow. 

My wife told me to slow down till we get a little more cash, so the next steps might be a week or two.

I did get the transom finished though...not bolted in though and the Bedliner looks and feels like it is going to be great!


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## Jdholmes (Oct 20, 2011)

So I think design wise for the decking, which I have been spending a lot of time mulling over..,,I think my original plan has changed.

I was going to just do an elevated casting deck on the front most part and keep the original floor on the rest of it, just flatten it. 

Thing is, I really think a live well is going to be important to have for me. So I thought of doing the cool thing and putting it in front of th middle seat. When I put one there to check for size it just seemed to take up so much space that there was no way to get around it conveniently...it became an obstruction and seemed like it would be a pain in the butt.

The only way I can figure to make it convenient is to carry the casting deck to the back of the middle seat so the live well is built into the floor.

If you can think of any ideas let me know!

I also was considering doing the live well with the bottom part of an outdoor Rubbermaid garbage can instead of the cooler...the reason I am considering this is because round is better than rectangle, I have read. Just a thought...but if I do that I don't know how I would keep the water from sloshing around...


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## Jdholmes (Oct 25, 2011)

Got my 5200 today for the seams and holes in the back of the hull. They put waaaaaay to many holes into the transom for my liking. 

I was going to just put 5200 in the screw holes and be done with it, but I have heard that it is not the best thing to do, as it isn't meant to be a gap filler...

I was thinking of using some kind of metal cap to go in the hole and then putting the 5200 in to hold it there? Good idea?


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## aeviaanah (Oct 26, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> Got my 5200 today for the seams and holes in the back of the hull. They put waaaaaay to many holes into the transom for my liking.
> 
> I was going to just put 5200 in the screw holes and be done with it, but I have heard that it is not the best thing to do, as it isn't meant to be a gap filler...
> 
> I was thinking of using some kind of metal cap to go in the hole and then putting the 5200 in to hold it there? Good idea?


I would use tinners rivits in the holes. The kind you mushroom the shank after inserting it in the hole. A little 5200 should help as well. You can then grind it down a bit so transom boards can flush out.


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## aeviaanah (Nov 28, 2011)

What's been happening man?


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## Jdholmes (Nov 28, 2011)

Hey! Thanks for stopping by! Getting ready for Christmas and family coming in sucking the coffers dry is what has been happening. So hard to make progress without cash. 

I have to get pics of my finished transom and truck liner though. 

Also a guy is selling a couple seat swivels for five bucks on craigslist so I am going to probably snag those today with a couple extra fishing poles.

Also got a huuuuuuge deal on some tackle at a yard sale couple weeks back, I will post a pic of it up here with the other ones.

How is your progress?


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## aeviaanah (Nov 28, 2011)

Jdholmes said:


> Hey! Thanks for stopping by! Getting ready for Christmas and family coming in sucking the coffers dry is what has been happening. So hard to make progress without cash.
> 
> I have to get pics of my finished transom and truck liner though.
> 
> ...


Doing real good ill post some pictures later on...glad to hear everything is going smooth. Ill be waiting to see your progress.


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## tsohg76 (Nov 29, 2011)

This is Awesome, right now I'm redoing a U13 13' valco. I've faced almost the same problems you have here. The transom was hell getting the staples out. Right now i just cut out my middle seat and im getting prepped for painting. afterwards im putting in a total deck from front seat to the rear seat already have the decking between the front seat and bow done when i got the boat. I do a lot of tournaments so im also adding in 2 livewells. was going to go the cooler route but now I think im goin to go ahead with a rubbermaid container. Mounting a bow mount foot control and a front pedestal seat, as soon as painting, decking and carpeting are done. Motor is a 1978 9.9 johnson was a long shaft but we just got done cutting it down to a short (the long was driving me nuts taking it back and forth to the lake). but until christmas is done kind of on hiatus on it until money starts flowing again.


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## Jdholmes (Nov 30, 2011)

@tsohg - Thanks! Looking forward to seeing your build on here.

Here are some updated pictures!


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## Jdholmes (Nov 30, 2011)

Ok...don't know why those pics are upside down! I was not upside down when I took them, honest. 

Happy happy, joy joy - look what came in the mail today! Thanks Jim!




Also I got an exceptional deal on some tackle at a yardsale a couple weeks back!

I had zero gear, having moved here from eastern Canada - sold/gave away everything we owned back there. So, I had been keeping an eye out for good yardsales for fishing gear. CHecked out one that claimed they had fishing rods and as I showed up I seen a greedy reseller loading his van full with about thirty rods - some with reels. He got them for $50.

I was a little dissappointed and was talking to the owners saying I had just come out for them and they were like, "We have a bit of tackle for sale too, you know!" So I look at it and it turns out this is all their sons stuff. He doesn't live there and they just want rid of it.

I didn't even haggle over the price...I was too excited. I probably could have gotten it for less....but check this out. All this gear and the two tackle boxes for a whopping $10!


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## tsohg76 (Nov 30, 2011)

Wow nice haul. I had to completely restart my selection too. about 2 years ago Ex wife took it all! I will post some pics as soon as im able. What did you do to that floor? is that bedliner?
I was thinking about bedliner for the rear section of the boat were i keep my battery and my gas tank. then possibly under the area i have my livewell setup in. nother question how much paint have you used so far primer wise?


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## Jdholmes (Nov 30, 2011)

I used Rustoleum self etching primer...think it was 4.77 at Walmart. I used either 3 or 4 for the entire interior....I would say 4 to be safe.

The floor is Rusoleum truck bed liner. It went on great and feels like the adhesion was excellent...nice hard coat....so far. I believe that was three cans, I went over it a couple times.


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## Jdholmes (Nov 30, 2011)

Picked up a couple plastic Bucket seats off Craigslist today for $15. Not bad to start me off! I figure When I get myself a nicer one I can just move the rear one to the middle...Will post pics inevitably.


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## singlefish (Nov 30, 2011)

check around at your local pawn shops .For your fishing tackle they can have some great deals!


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## Jdholmes (Nov 30, 2011)

Great idea! Thanks for the suggestion!


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## tsohg76 (Nov 30, 2011)

ok cool was going to go with the self etching primer from walmart. most of my floor will be decked over here real soon. got a small spray gun and was going to coat the inside with rustoleum metal enamel gloss grey. the spray gun i have is technically a touchup gun so i think im going to be spending alot of time mixing paint. got lucky on finding a bowmount today 41lb motorguide magnum footcontrol i found for $150. Didnt have 150 so sold old shotgun to a friend whos been wanting it. last part i have to do before i start the paint process is im going to pressure wash the inside out due to the mass of aluminum shards and paint dust on the inside. then a vinegar wash and the primer. Very excited. Ive already got the marine carpet set aside. Father had it sitting in his shed for years.


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## Jdholmes (Dec 1, 2011)

Congrats on the troller. Always nice if you can get a deal, and trading something you don't need for something you want is great.

I found the rattle cans with the little two dollar handle sprayer worked great...super easy. I don't find it a big enough job to need anything else, but I suppose it would make a nice finish to use a bigger sprayer.

I found the pressure washer sprayed stuff around and didn't get all the loose stuff out of the boat for me...what was great was taking it down to a 'do it yourself' car wash and using the super powerful vacuums there. They sucked it clean!

I have not really decided on carpet or a nice gloss paint for the inside yet...haven't committed to carpet or finished wood on the benches yet either...tossing it back and forth.


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## tsohg76 (Dec 1, 2011)

After ALOT of time on the water in this baby. Im definately going with carpet. especially having it free. 

Nice gloss paint on the inside shouldnt take much. But since i got the sprayer doing it this way costs half of what it would if i rattlecanned it.

wish i had a good diagram to show what im doing to it. When i first decided to deck it. I loaded up Sketchup and drafted the whole project out on the computer.

Now a Valco is very hard to do so many curves. But was VERY useful for figuring out distances and measurements


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## tsohg76 (Dec 1, 2011)

Oh and for the pressure wash we tip the boat on its side and just blow it all off. hopefully that will get it all!


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## Jdholmes (Dec 1, 2011)

Makes sense...I was alone and don't know practically anyone in Vegas yet...at least not close enough to get help.

Take a screen shot of the sketch up image...or just send the file to me and I can if you don't know how. I love sketch up....I would love to have the file for my selfish purposes anyway!


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## tsohg76 (Dec 2, 2011)

Back to the drawing board realized i made a big mistake early on in my drafting. now got to rethink this but same overall just got to figure out the why that happened. When i had originally designed the decking supports i drafted out many different builds. when i seen this build here i knew i had found a winner. https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=18442 this is a beautifully done valco. and i loved how simple his deck was made. Problem is his shape for a 12' seem to be a little different then my 13' . I think my boat may be a little older, the front of mine slopers in and drops alot faster then his seems to? I still want to use that deck plan but may have to modify it a bit pictures coming today!


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## tsohg76 (Dec 6, 2011)

Any new updates for us?


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## Jdholmes (Dec 17, 2011)

Allllllrighty then! Big update.

My wife has been jonesing for me to get the boat water worthy before her family comes for Christmas, cause she wants me to take her Dad and her sisters boyfriend out fishing.

I of course did not argue, and so I have been trying to get enough progress done the past week and a half to get it on the water.

I decided for now to just put in bench seats. It will be easy enough to take them out when I can spend on the plywood for the deck, just a few bolts.

That being said, I did not splurge on nice wood I just grabbed some knotty pine, cut them to size and slapped spar urethane on them so they will at least last as long as I need them to. 

I also picked up a couple piano hinges for two of the benches, that way I can flip them up for temporary storeage.

WICKED DEAL ON MY STAINLESS HARDWARE FOR THE TRANSOM! Went to West Marine, filled up my baggies and when I cashed out, I was chatting with the guy at the counter, he types in the numbers for the washers and nuts and then tosses the bag with the bolts at me and says, "These ones are on us." What?!? Awesome! The bolts were the most expensive part, so I ended up only having to pay $11!

Got the transom on, sealed holes with 5200, bolted down the transom support, sealed seams with 5200, GOT MY MOTOR BACK TOGETHER!

So pumped about that - for whatever reason, I did nothing different that I know of, when I tried putting the lower end back up, it worked this time....score!

Painted the interior with Machine Grey from Rustoleum - the only high performance grey enamel I could find at either the Orange Box, the Blue Box or Wally World...found it at the Orange Box. Went on like a charm and seems nice and hard so far.

Also sanded down my anchor mate a little, it was covered in surface rust, and painted that the grey, and the bow cap got a coat of white to match what the outside will look like.

The transom repair seems to be A1 and much stronger.

5200 takes way longer to dry than I figured...it has been several days and last night was still tacky.

Last thing, I think - picked up two bucket seats off Craigs for $15.

Pictures forthcoming, and hopefully more updating soon.

Questions...where is the best place to buy anchor rope? Transom trolling motor...which side would you mount it on?


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## JonBoatfever (Dec 17, 2011)

I have mine ion the opposite side i sit on, so when im runnin down the lake and the TM is folded up its not hittin me on the head. Looks Great!


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## Jdholmes (Dec 18, 2011)

Thanks for the input!

I climbed into it yesterday to give it a hands on test. Seems to work better for me on the starboard side. On the port side i found it inconvenient to lift the main motor tiller up over the troller when turning.

I will not permanently attach the cutting board material plate I made to the back, just use the pressure to hold it in place...that way i can change it around if i decide.


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## tsohg76 (Dec 18, 2011)

Now that is looking good! wish my transom went in that nice looking. mine got pretty banged up because i didnt cut the aluminum.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 11, 2012)

Looks like I am going to need a new kill button for my motor...anyone have a parts Johnson or know a cheap place I could get the piece? It's a 9.5 hp oldie.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 20, 2012)

Any opinions on leaving out the rear support braces that attach to the bench?

I have put the front two and middle two on, but would prefer to leave the rear ones out if the boat performance won't suffer.

I would think the front four would be the most important for removing flex...


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## Jdholmes (Jan 21, 2012)

Any feedback on this?


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## jasper60103 (Jan 21, 2012)

Jdholmes said:
 

> Any opinions on leaving out the rear support braces that attach to the bench?
> 
> I have put the front two and middle two on, but would prefer to leave the rear ones out if the boat performance won't suffer.
> 
> I would think the front four would be the most important for removing flex...



If you're looking to save some space, I've seen angled aluminum braces used for support. Just a thought. 
Here's a video of what I'm talking about...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iEmU3UQ8K0


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## Jdholmes (Jan 21, 2012)

That's not a bad idea...it is less about space and more about appearance to be honest. the front and middle ones connect to the rear of each bench, but then the rear brace connects to the front of the bench. It looks weird.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 21, 2012)

My wife liked the idea of the angle bracket...she wasn't so excited about me leaving the rear bench supports out completely.

She also thinks we should paint the motor cowling something fun...I'm not so excited about that idea. 

This is how she (the boat) looks today.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 21, 2012)

On a side note, got a sweet yard sale deal today! We are looking into doing some primitive (ish) camping...like doing a little two day fishing trip up the Colorado and camping on shore.

Been watching Craigslist, and stopped into a moving sale today.

Nabbed a Coleman tent (which looks to have been used once maybe), a lantern, an extension cord, a staple gun. A carpenters square and a wicked cooler for a whopping grand total of $18!

The cooler is really perfect to use as a live well if I want to...as you will see in the pics it is a flip top, which I have never seen before, and it has a ruler embossed on the tip. Love it!


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## jasper60103 (Jan 24, 2012)

Good deal. I like the split top cooler too.
Btw, nice rig you got there. Great job. =D>


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## aeviaanah (Jan 25, 2012)

Ive removed all the supports...nothing seems to be wrong, although if I hit a tree or something It may not hold up as well.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 25, 2012)

Hey man,

I did think of yours...you do have L channel that attaches to all your benches though...little different cause mine only had the angled ones to begin with. I think I am going to attach something on the rear that looks like yours.


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## JMichael (Jan 25, 2012)

The boat is looking good JD. Heck of a score on that tent and other items. I use to have a cooler exactly like that one. If you're still looking for that kill switch, try ebay. I've got a 75 merc 20hp and I'm always keeping an eye on ebay for any items I need. One item I see often are kill switches for mine. Have you considered another pulley for for that anchor line? Looks like it could use one about even with the front edge of the front seat. That should change the angle of the rope so it's not in the way for the front seat. 

I use to be boat poor, but I recently inherited 2 Gamefishers (12' and 16') and traded for a 15' Fisher. I just started the tearout on the Fisher.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 26, 2012)

Hey JMichael,

Thanks for the compliment and advice. I had thought about doing a second pulley. Though it actually wasn't as much in the way as it looks in the pic I did decide to take another look today. After looking at it again I figured with a little jimmy rigging I could just move the one pulley further up. In order to do that without having the rope run I took my dremel and used the cutting wheel to shape the cowel that mounts on the bow. 

It does look better now - thanks for the nudge.

And also, congrats on your boat!


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## Jdholmes (Jan 27, 2012)

So I finally got to test my motor today! At first I was ticked cause I couldn't get the primer bulb to fill with gas. I chalked it up to both of the ones I had being too old and so I went to Wally world and dropped $50 on a new fuel line setup with the Johnson end.

At first it seemed like that one wasn't going to work too, but all of a sudden it started surging in! So I gave the rope a few pulls...nothing...gave it another one or two and she made a bang cough like she wanted to turn over...I gave it a sec cause it startled me a little  and on the next pull she fired up! 

She stalled after about ten seconds so I pulled again and she was good after that.

This is a 9.5 Johnson from the early 70's and has sat for about three years. That is beautiful.

It did smoke like crazy though...I figured that was cause it had set so long + I was in a garage so the smoke was kind of lingering. 

She shifted fine through the gears...and water seemed to be coming out the hole all right.

I did notice the area right above the cavitation plate felt fairly hot after I shut it down...is that normal for bucket testing or should I be concerned? I did check the impeller before starting and it seemed fine...and changed the lower unit oil...but that's about all I have done to it...


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## JMichael (Jan 28, 2012)

Thanks JD, I'm really looking forward to my "new to me" boat. 

I'm in the same situation you are in that my engine is old (75) and it had sat for an unknown number of years. After cleaning the carb, fuel pump, new oil in the lower, new plugs, and putting it all back together, it fired up reasonably quick. To my surprise, the water pump was working perfectly as the tell tale hole was showing. For the little bit of cost to eliminate the risk of an old impeller failing and seizing the engine in the middle of a fishing trip, I bought a rebuild kit for my pump. I'd recommend you do the same. It's a small investment to protect your motor. As far as the lower unit getting hot, I'm not sure. If that engine has exhaust out the prop, and in that small amount of water, it may well get pretty warm. If you're uncomfortable with it, I'd probably try to trailer it down to a ramp where you can do a test run with it sitting on the trailer and see if it's hot when you pull it out.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 28, 2012)

Yeah I will pick up a rebuild kit in the next little bit...It looked and felt great for now...just an extra cost I don't want to get into yet with my budget.

Same as taking it to the lake to test. I have to buy my registration on the boat, plus a national parks pass to go get over to lake mead...still need my fishing license too and because it shares shores with Arizona I need tags for both states. 

Oh well...it has to be done probably in the next two weeks.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 28, 2012)

Enjoy and feel free to give input as always! All comments are welcomed! 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBMjXt_wDw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBMjXt_wDw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]


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## jasper60103 (Jan 28, 2012)

Jdholmes said:


> Enjoy and feel free to give input as always! All comments are welcomed!
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBMjXt_wDw&feature=youtube_gdata_player
> 
> [youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsBMjXt_wDw&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/youtube]


Sounds like shes idling well and pumping good water. I say its time for a water test. Also, I like the under seat storage. Keep us posted, and thanks for sharing.


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## cartech5 (Jan 28, 2012)

Awsome and simple build what kind of wood is that by the way, looks great


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## Jdholmes (Jan 29, 2012)

Thanks for the comments guys! I agree It is time for a bigger test - she will see the lake soon. 

Two things to update...this morning when I went to the garage there was something weird looking where the motor had dripped dry...I don't know if it is just oil residue from being run in a small tub of water or something I should actually be concerned about...

It's quite thick, gooey, and a pale greenish color...

The other picture shows the prop is quite greasy as well...

Check out the pics.

The other pic is an update on my kill switch situation. I didn't want to spend $20-50 on an factory replacement so I am jimmy riggin my own. Just bought a $3 momentary (normally open) push button, a washer to make sure it doesn't go through the larger factory hole, some wire and a couple connectors...


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## JMichael (Jan 29, 2012)

The only potential problem I can see with using that switch is if it's not weatherproof. If you got caught out in the rain or water splashed up on it while you were out, you might find yourself stuck where you are until you could get it dried out or disconnected.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 29, 2012)

Hey! Thanks for the input.

I don't see the issue, though. Even if it did get damaged, which is unlikely because it is kind of recessed, it wouldn't have an adverse effect on the performance of the motor...it's a kill switch. Maybe you thought it was my starter?

Technically I don't need it, I can just pull the choke and flood the motor if I really needed to. That's how I have been shutting it off the past couple days.


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## JMichael (Jan 30, 2012)

Adverse effect being it's a normally open switch. Induced water (being a conductor) could short the switch so that it's full time closed meaning the motor won't run. :mrgreen:


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## Jdholmes (Jan 30, 2012)

I suppose there is a remote possibility that could happen, but all you would have to do to reopen the circuit is unplug the wires at the switch...

I really think it would be hard for that to happen though, based on the design of the switch and where it sits...but we shall see. If it was a real chance of making me stranded i would not take the chance of it failing...if I was overly concerned I suppose I could make a flap to keep water out. 

But considering the total project cost of about $5 and the fact that if it fails it will be no big deal to pull the switch out (came with a spare anyway) I think it is still a good option.


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## JMichael (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh I agree with you 100% and if it were me, I'd do the same thing. Some people wouldn't want to take that chance though and I was only pointing it out as a precaution. As far as making it water proof, most of the mfg buttons just have a rubber cap over them that fits over a lip at the base of the switch. If your old one is like that, you might be able to find a washer the right size and use that to hold the cap from the old switch onto the new switch.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 30, 2012)

Not a bad idea...I will take a peek.


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## Jdholmes (Mar 3, 2012)

Quick update...doing a little more work - got the front bow deck pretty much done. Still haven't cut hatches or added the anchor storage between the bow deck and the top of the bow.

Also wired my home rigged stop button.


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## Jdholmes (Mar 3, 2012)

Oh, I also picked up some cheapo speakers that I can plug in to my iPod. They aren't powerful but they will do the trick for what I wanted. I am going to cut the base off and flush mount them into the boxes I am going to put on the sides of the rear deck.


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## JamesM56alum (Mar 8, 2012)

So did you paint the boat yet ?


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## Jdholmes (Mar 8, 2012)

The back of it and the inside. Waiting for a friend to help me flip it to paint the rest of the outside.


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## TimRich (Mar 8, 2012)

Very nice work and in a pretty short amount of time! Keep up the great work!


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## Jdholmes (Mar 24, 2012)

Progress pics...can't afford carpet right now but I am fine with the look of a wood deck right now. 

Used my leftover oak plywood to make a front deck and storage areas.

Went really light with framing and it turned out fine - I used a mix of aluminum angle, 2x2 and 1x2. Seems plenty strong so far.

I am pretty low on tools so cutting and figuring it all out was fun...when it comes down to it I am happy. She isn't a show room boat, and I never intended her to be...she's a fishing boat. 

Put some eyebolts in the front to hold my cooler up there and also a couple behind the middle bench for holding tackle or whatever with bungees.

Still have to make the hatch for the anchor storage area...just poking away at it bit by bit now. Small things.


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## jasper60103 (Mar 24, 2012)

Looks real sharp. Good work. =D>


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## snips (Mar 24, 2012)

nice looking rig!


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## Jdholmes (Mar 26, 2012)

Made a DiY boat hook today with PVC and a couple stainless bolts. Super quick and cheap way to get a boat hook! Total cost under $2.00.


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## Ictalurus (Mar 26, 2012)

Jdholmes said:


> Oh, I also picked up some cheapo speakers that I can plug in to my iPod. They aren't powerful but they will do the trick for what I wanted. I am going to cut the base off and flush mount them into the boxes I am going to put on the sides of the rear deck.




JD

Love the speakers. =D> =D> 

Could you point me in the direction of where you picked those up.


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## Jdholmes (Mar 26, 2012)

Walmart electronics dept. - $5. They aren't real powerful at all but I just wanted something for a little background noise.


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## JamesM56alum (Mar 26, 2012)

Nice looks great bro, i like the raw wood look alot i had considered it for mine but i wanted the floor covered with the anti slip and clear sealer wouldnt have worked with the anti slip.


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## Jdholmes (Mar 27, 2012)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHPqQnJpYbs&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Thanks, bro. Got it out of the garage and out to Lake Mead finally!

It ran like a champ and everything was ship shape - no leaks!

I stupidly hadn't tightened the plug down at first...learned that lesson...only let in a very little bit before I caught it.

Right away I need cup holders and latches for the two benches so they don't try to open when you lean backward....couple other small tweaks over the next bit...oh yeah and finally finish painting it, that would be good...

Would like to find a 20 hp eventually.


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## JamesM56alum (Mar 27, 2012)

Absolutely beautiful back ground and holy hell that boat launch is huge! 

yep need the latches bro it'd suck ass to lean back straight into the lake lol!


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## Jdholmes (Mar 27, 2012)

Yeah man, for sure. What's funny is we couldn't launch in the actual lanes! It's way to shallow a ramp. We had to go off the side - there was another guy doing the same thing. I would have had to have the truck completely in the water before the water would get over the bunkers at all.

The marina is pretty big, but pretty dead as far as traffic right now. Beautiful area and quiet right now.

We went hiking after - that's a pic of the marina below.


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## JamesM56alum (Mar 27, 2012)

Amazing man, i miss the mountain ranges our family growing up had a cabin in the smokey mtns but sadly my aunt burnt it down lol


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## jasper60103 (Mar 27, 2012)

Nice video. Looks like that 9.5 pushes her well.
How do you like the anchor mate setup? I have one and was thinking of mounting it similar to yours.


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## morecoffee (Mar 27, 2012)

Glad you were able to get it out on the water!


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## Jdholmes (Mar 27, 2012)

I actually really like the anchor mate - it is super convenient. The only problem is getting used to that convenience. At one point in the day I started to take off and forgot to wheel it up, then wondered why my motor seemed to be under performing. LoL...quickly remedied and lesson learned.


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## jasper60103 (Mar 27, 2012)

Jdholmes said:


> I actually really like the anchor mate - it is super convenient. The only problem is getting used to that convenience. At one point in the day I started to take off and forgot to wheel it up, then wondered why my motor seemed to be under performing. LoL...quickly remedied and lesson learned.



Great, I will give it a shot. I usually fish alone so the added convenience would be a plus. Thanks.


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