# Buying a Boat in Texas - with no title



## Johnny (Oct 29, 2015)

Just ran across this on the good ole YouTube.
There has been so much controversy on Texas boats lately
that I thought this would be of interest to the new guys. (in TX).

I am in FLORIDA - so I am not gonna elaborate on it other than
from what I see, Texas is TUFF on recreational vehicles !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ9ejMBB8rw


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## satx78247 (Oct 29, 2015)

Johnny,

It's actually WORSE that the fellow on you-tube said:

1. My uncle Jimmy, who died in 1991 died without a will & at the time of his death owned an unidentified builder's 16.5 foot aluminum open fisherman that he won in a dice game at Ft Bragg, NC in 1954. - Now his wife (my aunt) has also passed away. = That boat, under current law, can NEVER be titled, as the State "presumes at law that the boat is stolen".

2. My uncle Wayne had a 14 foot REDFISH SHARK (He also died & W/O listing the 1957 boat in his will.) and his son cannot title/register his own father's boat/motor/trailer (that's currently worth 5-600.oo), without hiring an attorney, getting the probate case re-opened & convincing a district judge to issue a court order that ORDERS the TPWD to title/register the boat/motor and ORDERS the TX DMV to title/register the boat trailer. = Our family's "usual attorney" told Randy that, "----- that process shouldn't cost you more than 2500 dollars"!!!

Our TEXAS legislature has SAWDUST between their ears & I've been trying for 2 years to get the legislature to change that BRAINLESS law. = After talking to Ms. Laura _____________ of TPWD for more than 2 hours about those 2 boats, she finally said, "The legislature won't fix this mess, as they don't want to admit that their first try at the 'boat title mess' was silly & passed without the use of the IQ of a jelly doughnut. They have put our agency in an untenable position."
(CLASSIC CATCH 22.)

yours, satx


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## Texas Prowler (Oct 29, 2015)

Yea it's a bit more then any state I've been to. Kinda stern because of all the thefts that were and still go on. But to me... It's understandable.


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## satx78247 (Oct 30, 2015)

texas prowler,

Inasmuch as virtually NO boats over 25 years old are EVER stolen (and the TPWD senior staff admits that, btw), I most seriously disagree that there is ANY legitimate reason to even title (or re-title) "our" boats.

The sole reason (as admitted to me by more than one TX legislator ) that the title requirement has NOT be reversed is that the legislators HATE admitting that they did something STUPID. 

In the case of antique boats (25 years and usually 50+ years of age) under about 30 feet, there are essentially NO thefts whatever of such boats in TX, as their resale value (until restoration is complete) is less than the amount of money that it costs to register the hull.
(It virtually always costs more to restore a boat than the after restoration value would be, if refurbished by a professional.)

One of my rarer boats (a 1958-59 YELLOW JACKET 15 foot runabout built of fiberglass with a mahogany plywood wooden deck/trim), is ONE of TWO that exist. 
(Only 8 hulls of this model are were built & this is ONE of 2 that are extant. - The other existing glass YJ is too "torn up" & incomplete to ever successfully restore.)

The YJ was given to me by another YJ fanatic (because he doesn't have time to restore it) & he knows that I will never dispose of it (except in my will) & the boat/Bearcat55 motor/trailer will be passed on to my daughter..
(The conservative cost to restore the FOREVER PRINCESS {named for my daughter's girlhood "pet name": Princess} alone, to factory stock & "as new" condition is about 2500.oo)

My friends laugh & say that I'm the President/VP/secretary/treasurer of The Yellow Jacket Fiberglass Boat Owner's Club.
(NO further members are expected. CHUCKLE.)

I also have the only individually-owned hull that was ever built by PLEASANT BOATWORKS of Camp County, TX.
(The company went TU about 2 weeks after "TEXAS FAST 1" was completed.)

yours, satx


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## Clint KY (Nov 5, 2015)

Here in Kentucky boats are titled and while you CAN get an untitled boat titled, it is a pain in the patootie. Rumor has it that some will take the boat to a friend in Tennessee where you can register a boat with a bill of sale. Have them register it and then a year later (if at all) get a bill of sale and the TN registration and register and apply for a title in KY. There is a provision in the law for boats that are coming from a state without titles so this work-around is a way to circumvent a too restrictive law . I am not saying I have ever done this or know anyone who has, but it seems to be a way around the law. I do know a fellow who fishes from a boat his claims is his son's as it has TN numbers and has had for as long as I have known him. BTW: the son never comes to KY to use the boat.


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 7, 2015)

Here's proof there are tins being stolen... 

https://dallas.craigslist.org/ndf/boa/5261626698.html


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Nov 7, 2015)

First line reads as if the boat was stolen. The rest of the listing reads as if they are selling the boat?


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 7, 2015)

It's an update. Instead of creating a new ad they just added more current information to the current one.


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## satx78247 (Nov 7, 2015)

To All,

I don't think that I ever said that "our boats" are NEVER stolen. - Just in 20 years, "Texas Prowler's case" is one of 2-3 that's I've even heard of as a LEO.

In the "For what it's worth department", I'm working with a TX Legislator from SA to get the law REMOVED altogether for boats smaller than 30 feet in length which were built before 1970, so that they simply can be REGISTERED only & NOT be required to be titled at all. 
Boats that later reached the age of 50 years or more would also be lawful to be sold with a BILL OF SALE ALONE & the TPWD would be instructed to REGISTER such boats without any other document than a sworn affidavit that the boat was NOT stolen to the knowledge of the current owner.
(Such boats could then change hands by a notarized BILL OF SALE alone, just as they did when the "old law" was in effect.)

Fyi, we are trying to figure out how to handle cases like my late uncle's boat, so that those sort of cases do NOT ever happen anymore. 
(Right now, "the current thinking" is for "items of small worth" that were NOT included in a will OR in cases where the deceased was intestate, that the executor or former executor could simply file a simple document with the local Clerk of Court that states what lawful disposition was made of such items & the boat could thereafter be registered by whomever the executor designated.)

Boat trailers, which are associated with the boats of the sort above, under the proposed new law would be required to be REGISTERED, with a BILL OF SALE alone, by the TX DMV.

yours, satx


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## richg99 (Nov 7, 2015)

Thanks for your efforts SATX. We (TX) are one of the most difficult States when it comes to boats and trailers. I've owned boats in Illinois (difficult and expensive); Wisconsin ( a breeze ); Tennesee (great State to deal with); and, of course, Texas.

When I tried to bring a well manufactured and almost new small trailer from TN to TX, I was told by a licensing employee that the police would take it and I'd never see it again. 

It was built without any serial number. Probably because TN didn't license or even register small trailers at that time. I had to sell it back to the original TN owner and buy a new one. 

richg99


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 7, 2015)

Satx thanks! Keep us informed.


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## satx78247 (Nov 7, 2015)

Richg99; TexasProwler,

THANKS.

Can either or hopefully both of you come to Austin to testify in front of the House & Senate??
(I've already been asked to testify & WILL do so.)

My "new Democrat friend" from the TX House says that he/I will write the bill together & he will get his GOP buddy from Seguin to co-sponsor the bill, next go-round.

yours, satx


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 8, 2015)

I would not mind, but I am three to four hours away. I'd need to make a trip out of it if I did.


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## richg99 (Nov 8, 2015)

Would be a long trip, but I might be able to do it. 

Far more likely, though, is to publicise the bill on 2coolfishing.com 15,000 members, most from Texas. Lots of them live in the Austin area. Keep me posted. richg99


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## satx78247 (Nov 8, 2015)

Texas Prowler,

UNDERSTOOD.

I've got a dear friend of mine, who has a house & a BR that you could use, if you are needed.

yours, satx


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## satx78247 (Nov 8, 2015)

richg99,

PLEASE don't "put this out" YET. - The bill is NOT even written yet BUT we may well want the help in a few months. - It depends if there is a Special Session of the Legislature called by Abbott or not.

THANKS for the offer, anyhow.

yours, satx


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 8, 2015)

I'm in. Also don't forget the folks on Texasfishingforum.com when the time comes.


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## satx78247 (Nov 8, 2015)

Texas Prowler,

When the time comes, I will most definitely remember & call upon the fishing forum folks. - Nonetheless, I will want some of OUR "tin boat" & "fiberglassics.com" EXPERTS to testify for the bill, inasmuch as fishermen may/may not be experts on antique boats & the NEEDLESS foolishness that the current law has caused almost everyone, who loves the OLD/classic watercraft.
(For example, HOW MANY people have a TITLED 1920s-1950s outboard motor?? - Nearly nobody, is my GUESS, even though if you possess such an untitled OB, the law "technically" considers it to be STOLEN.)

Note: On 03NOV15, I was working the polls as an EO & we started talking about "our boats" & one of the voters from Southside, San Antonio stated that he knows where is Great-grandfather's boat from 1908 is stored & which cannot be registered/license/sailed, as it has a one-cylinder auxiliary engine that displaces over 30C.I. & puts out less than TWO HP to the prop.
When he tried to get TPWD to title/register the boat, he was told that he had to produce a signed sales document from his ancestor.
(When he stated that his G-GF passed away in the 1930s, the clerk reportedly said: I'm sorry but my hands are tied. You cannot register the boat.)

yours, satx


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 8, 2015)

I understand. Thanks for your time and effort.


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## satx78247 (Nov 8, 2015)

Texas Prowler,

THANKS. Nonetheless, I have "a dog in this fight" & I'm NOT a "neutral party" as I hope to title/register my late Uncle Jimmy's old fishing boat, get it back on the water & powered by my 1957 Johnny 18HP OB..
(So do the Texas taxpayers & the State government's pocketbook too. = There are estimated to be over 14,000 untitled/unregistered antique boats in TX. - IF only 75% of those who are titled/registered, that's 1.2 MILLION extra bucks for various parks & wildlife projects.)

Keep your fingers crossed that we have SUCCESS in our project.

yours, satx


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