# Arrows and broadheads



## Jim (Aug 29, 2009)

What are you using?

I was using xx78's and splitfire broadheads.


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## thudpucker (Aug 29, 2009)

Back when I did 'that' I used 2219's and the big Rothaur 175gr Broad heads.
My hunting partner called them big heavy broom sticks; "Tree stand Arrows" as they were meant to be shot straight downwards.
They were good for 'business' though and if he still makes them, I'd say to use em with confidence.


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## dyeguy1212 (Aug 29, 2009)

I shoot Easton Full Metal Jacket 400's with Grim Reaper 125 gr broadheads.


I honestly wouldn't settle for anything second best, and I believe this combo is the ultimate big game killer.


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## Loggerhead Mike (Aug 30, 2009)

hand widdled family reciepe white oak twig arrow's with authentic cherokee indian broadheads


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## Quackrstackr (Aug 30, 2009)

Easton ST Epics with 100gr NAP Shockwaves.

I've got some Rage broadheads that I aim to give a whirl at some point.


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## dyeguy1212 (Aug 30, 2009)

Quackrstackr said:


> .
> I've got some Rage broadheads that I aim to give a whirl at some point.




I'm not going to get started with rage, but I'll tell you I havent had good experiences with them. I'm no crack shot, but I put a good shot on a buck with a 2 blade, and he sure bled, but the penetration was ridiculously poor. 3/4 of the arrow was sticking out of his rib cage when he took off.

The following morning my buddy shot one with a 3 blade and had similar results. We found 2/3 of his arrow broken off about 50 yards away, and a few specks of blood. He's a better shot than I am, and would admit it if he made a poor shot, but he was sure it was in the lungs.


I wrote rage a letter and got my 40 bucks back. If you get lucky and it squeezes between ribs, get ready for a mad blood trail. But if you hit bone, don't count on a dead deer.


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## FishinsMyLife (Aug 30, 2009)

Fellas on a forum local to me love their Rage broadheads..that's interesting to hear though. Good info if I ever get into bow hunting


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## Quackrstackr (Aug 30, 2009)

I've heard the bad experiences and I've heard (and seen) the good ones.

My bow has ke to spare so if I do my job, they should do theirs. I guess I'll have to see for myself.


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## dyeguy1212 (Aug 30, 2009)

Its not a question of KE by any means. My bow lays a SMACK DOWN with other heads. Rage just arent very high quality.


I'm not one to buy into unrealistic tests, but shoot on into ply wood and see what happens, compared to other heads like strikers, montecs, reapers, and muzzys. 


The big cutting diameter will suddenly lose its appeal.


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## FishinsMyLife (Aug 30, 2009)

https://www.scducks.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42702

It did work on this deer.


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## thudpucker (Aug 30, 2009)

Those old Tin Bear Razor inserts weren't a very impressive broadhead either, but they took a heckuva lot of Game before the Broadheads with the Carbon alloys came along. That was all with lo-KE Bows too.


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## Jwengerd (Aug 30, 2009)

Rage broadheads are great if you have a fast enough bow or enough kinetic energy, your not pushing 1.25 broad head through a deer your pushing 2" plus that takes alot of energy. They make a new 40ke for lower kinetic energy bows i dont know if the help with pass throughs.


-Justin


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## Quackrstackr (Aug 30, 2009)

dyeguy1212 said:


> Its not a question of KE by any means. My bow lays a SMACK DOWN with other heads. Rage just arent very high quality.
> 
> 
> I'm not one to buy into unrealistic tests, but shoot on into ply wood and see what happens, compared to other heads like strikers, montecs, reapers, and muzzys.
> ...



This ain't my first rodeo. :lol: 

I've been shooting a bow for 30 years. I know more people that love them than I do that hate them. You don't need a pass thru if the deer falls right in front of you. I'll be testing them out for myself.

I had a buddy that preached muzzy for years until he lost 3 deer shooting them last year, one a sure P&Y candidate. Sometimes it's the arrow, most times it's the Indian. :wink:


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## thudpucker (Aug 30, 2009)

I started with a stick bow, cedar arrows with Bear Razor heads back in 61. In Washington State. I never lost an animal. Once in AK I made a bad shot and had to follow a Moose around for three days till I got it.
Quacker is right. Mostly its the Indian!


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## Zum (Aug 30, 2009)

I use thunderheads,125 grain.


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## switchback (Aug 30, 2009)

I use Cabela's extreme stalker arrows and Magnus Stinger 100 gr. 4 blade broadheads and have no problems with pass thru's or putting them down. Just about anything will put them down if you put it in the right spot. Women and younger kids kill deer with 40 pound bows and trad guys take them down with recurves and longbows, the indians did it with handmade bows and stone broadheads. It really boils down to personal preference and confidence. I bet you could find someone out there that has had a bad experience with just about any product out there. The key is practice, practice, practice! The last bow I had was a pse nova game sport with steel cables and was slow and loud with aluminum arrows and still killed deer with it.

On another note here are a few pics of my arrows .... first with laquer faded crest job before lumenox and second is the custom wraps I just ordered put on and fletched then added tracer nocks. I like the faded look better.


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## Jim (Aug 31, 2009)

Good points switchback! (no puns intended)

Nice looking arrows!


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## thudpucker (Aug 31, 2009)

Those are good looking arrows. =D> 
We bow hunters really loved it when some Targen shooting, underdraw,newbie showed up at a 20 yard shoot with 'purdy' arrows like that.
We'd just lurk till he finally got impatient and put an arrow into the practice target.
Then we'd pounce on his arrow with our big broomsticks. Shoot his pretty trinket to death right in front of him while he watched in helpless dismay.

It don't matter what kind of garnish you put on them, finding them without a metal detector is nearly impossible. Those really smooth fast arrows with go several yards under the grass and undergrowth.

I had some with bright international orange crest and Fletch, and Orange Rabbit fur. Going through the air they looked like big lighted tracers. But once they got into the brush. :x ...?

I took a long shot at a Caribou with one of those brightly lit up arrows. He stood there and watched it coming. He was still wondering what kind of bird that must have been when the arrow clattered around in his Rack. Then he took off at a Gallop. That arrow I found. He left it laying on top the tundra for me. :LOL2:


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## dyeguy1212 (Aug 31, 2009)

Quackrstackr said:


> dyeguy1212 said:
> 
> 
> > Its not a question of KE by any means. My bow lays a SMACK DOWN with other heads. Rage just arent very high quality.
> ...



Have at it man. But good luck having one drop infront of you. I'm not bashing just for the sake of bashing. I'm just trying to tell you I HONESTLY think they are shit.


I'm no preacher for any type of broadhead, but I'll tell fellow hunters what heads are garbage, and are likely to injure deer. Just because the drury brothers talk about them, dont mean a damn thing. I dont care how long youve been hunting and how great of a shot you think you are. Youre bound to make a marginal shot at some point, and I dont think its fair to the deer to be shooting a head that wont kill it if you make a shoulder shot or hit a rib.


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## Quackrstackr (Aug 31, 2009)

I can gaurantee you that I don't care what the Drury brothers or any other talking head says about a product they are being paid to advertise. I also take internet opinions with a grain of salt and like to make my own decisions based on my own firsthand experience.

I've seen plenty of guys that were thrilled and know several of them personally, I've seen plenty of shots that hit ribs and shoulderblades. I've also seen plenty of guys like yourself that don't like them.

If it's all about what's most lethal or ethical, all bowhunters need to hang their sticks up and go strictly with firearms.

I'm done with the Rage discussion/argument. You've made your opinion known based on your own experience so why not give others the same opportunity?


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## switchback (Aug 31, 2009)

thudpucker said:


> Those are good looking arrows. =D>
> We bow hunters really loved it when some Targen shooting, underdraw,newbie showed up at a 20 yard shoot with 'purdy' arrows like that.
> We'd just lurk till he finally got impatient and put an arrow into the practice target.
> Then we'd pounce on his arrow with our big broomsticks. Shoot his pretty trinket to death right in front of him while he watched in helpless dismay.
> ...



First off I hunt and never been to a shoot. Second I don't put the lights and crest on to find them. I put them on there to see the kinda shot I made in low light. It has helped once or twice in broad daylight. Last, I don't have to look for my arrows under grass cause I shoot from a climber. They are usually stuck in the ground at about 20 yards where it passed thru the deer. I guess if tearing up somebody else's property they worked hard for was your thing more power to you. Me I would have tried to help the newbie out so they wouldn't have the same image of bowhunters as alot of people do.


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## dyeguy1212 (Aug 31, 2009)

Quackrstackr said:


> I can gaurantee you that I don't care what the Drury brothers or any other talking head says about a product they are being paid to advertise. I also take internet opinions with a grain of salt and like to make my own decisions based on my own firsthand experience.
> 
> I've seen plenty of guys that were thrilled and know several of them personally, I've seen plenty of shots that hit ribs and shoulderblades. I've also seen plenty of guys like yourself that don't like them.
> 
> ...



I dont know what youre getting all bent out of shape about. Take my advice with a grain of salt, really, do it. I've seen plenty of guys happy with them too, and I've seen plenty that aren't. I dont recall taking away your right to try the head for yourself, I'm just calling it as I see it.


Make a good decision and I hope you make a clean ethical kill. If it doesnt work out, I hope youre haunted just as badly as I am. I'm sure you work just as hard as I do year 'round to ensure a successful hunt, so I'd hate to see yours end as unfortunately as mine did.


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## Jim (Aug 31, 2009)

:LOL2: 

So you both hear good and bad things about these broadheads. 

Dye,from experience you say they stink. 

Stackr, you are going to try them for yourself to see.

Report back with what you find. 

I read the reviews from cabelas and they are good when good, but when they are bad they are all bad in the same way. No penetration, no blood trail, and dull blades. From the pictures I have seen: https://images.google.com/images?q=rage%202%20boradhead&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi

These CAN do some damage. 

User error sometimes? or Bad design when shot is not ideal? 

Is there any product out there that is perfect? You will always have someone saying it stinks, no matter what.

Personally, I don't like the idea of the O-ring on broadheads, and I don't like the fact that these need a bow that can produce serious KE. 

Being a "Frail" norfer, :LOL2: this might not be good for the one time I ever do get a shot at a deer.


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## dyeguy1212 (Aug 31, 2009)

Jim, funny that you mention two possible downfalls that I actually find to be positives of rage heads :lol: 


Although the orings are not good for blade retention (and I cant stress that enough), I like the placement of them because they act almost as a shock absorber for the blades once fully deployed. If the blades were thicker or just made better, I bet it would really help the blades from curling or breaking when hitting bone.


As for the KE needed, I feel rage needs the least energy of any mech head to deploy. They came out with the design for lower poundage bows, but I fail to see how its necessary. These blades open VERY easily (most of the time in my quiver), but they truely take little pressure to deploy, especially when compared to other mech heads.

If youre one to buy into the idea that it takes more KE to push a 2in cut blade through a deer, youre probably right though. Common sense and science would lead you to believe that a wide dia head like the rage (and most other mech heads) require more KE to get through a deer than smaller, fixed blade heads.

While I may be wrong, I don't think it makes a noticeable difference. The blades on the rage are so thin (and pretty darn sharp outa the box), that if they meet unobstructed meat, its going to slice through with no problem. Some people think the cut on contact tip helps with that too.


For whatever reason, I don't think its a big deal though. My bow isnt outrageously fast but any means, but it has no problem pushing a grim reaper through a deer with a 1 3/8 in cut. Not to mention, its not a cut on contact tip, which I really prefer. I think youre a lot better off with a solid tip, like found on Muzzys, G5 strikers, and slick tricks, because they can annihilate bone if need be, without risking breaking a blade.

Some people seem to swear by cut on contact tips, but I fail to see the true value in them. If you drop a COC tip from 5 inches onto your arm, and a solid tip from the same distance, they are both going to penetrate more than you'd like :lol: Send the same heads at 250-300 fps, finding a difference would be impossible. The only possible difference is which head is still intact (especially when it passes through and hits a rock). Not to mention, a tiny COC blade isnt fun to try to find when processing your deer...


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## Jim (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks for the info! 

That is why i ask here. I still have a brand new 100 grain spitfires from 10 years ago. There are so many choices these days its crazy.


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## Quackrstackr (Sep 1, 2009)

dyeguy1212 said:


> I dont know what youre getting all bent out of shape about.



Oh, I dunno....



dyeguy1212 said:


> Have at it man. But good luck having one drop infront of you. I'm not bashing just for the sake of bashing. I'm just trying to tell you I HONESTLY think they are s**t.
> 
> 
> I'm no preacher for any type of broadhead, but I'll tell fellow hunters what heads are garbage, and are likely to injure deer. *Just because the drury brothers talk about them, dont mean a damn thing. I dont care how long youve been hunting and how great of a shot you think you are. *Youre bound to make a marginal shot at some point, and I dont think its fair to the deer to be shooting a head that wont kill it if you make a shoulder shot or hit a rib.



Probably the fact that I don't care to be lumped into the category of newbie fanboy that some self proclaimed internet archery expert can push around. You don't know me, you don't know how much time a year I spend shooting and you don't know how many dozens of deer I've killed over the last 30 years with a dozen different broadhead designs. I have seen every conceivable shot placement known to man put on a deer. If you make a bad shot, it doesn't really matter much what kind of head you have on the arrow. Muzzy's, G5's, Magnus, I don't give a flip what it is. There is no magic bullet out there if you don't do your part with good shot placement.

I stated that I was going to try the Rage head but your comments basically calling me ignorant and telling me exactly what was going to happen escalated with every reply. Just because someone doesn't shoot what you do doesn't make them less knowledgeable than yourself, wrong, less ethical, etc., etc.


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## thudpucker (Sep 1, 2009)

Amazing!
Such a fun subject can evoke so many tempers with so little restraint.


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## Andy (Sep 1, 2009)

I shoot Carbon Express 0075 arrows, with 100 grain Splitfire heads.


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## dyeguy1212 (Sep 1, 2009)

Quackrstackr said:


> dyeguy1212 said:
> 
> 
> > I dont know what youre getting all bent out of shape about.
> ...






Alright quack. STOP and RELAX, and read the following post:


The Drury comment was just pointing out how much advertisement and hype was around this product. You're blowing everything out or proportion, and taking all of my responses as insults and come backs, and its getting pretty annoying.


I never told you to shoot any broadhead INSTEAD. I'm telling you the EXPERIENCE that I have with this product, which you DONT have. I simply mentioned other heads to make various points. The brand names are interchangable, and really don't mean crap.


Perhaps youre applying sarcasm where it wasnt intended, but I never said anything about how much you shoot, how much time you spend in the woods, or how much experience you have. Never called you a newbie, fan boy, or anything else for that matter. Never lumped you into an category, or made any comparison to other "groups". I simply said you probably spend as much time as I do, implying that you seem to know your stuff and show some knowledge.

I never called myself an archery expert, nor do I try to act like one. You seem to take every comment as a comeback, instead of reading it as the conversation it is. Stop being so defensive, and re-read this entire thread, this time, with a different attitude.

I never once meant to imply you're any less of a hunter than I am. Frankly, I could give a crap how much you hunt, how much experience you have, or how many deer you've killed. When it comes down to it, you're just the same as everyone else out in the woods. You, the 14 year old newbie, the 70 year old man thats been hunting his entire life, and the rest of the hunting population have the same responsibility: To make a clean and ethical kill.


Lets leave it at that.


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## Jim (Sep 1, 2009)

Hi Guys,

Lets move on! :| 

Take it up via PM if you need to.


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## dyeguy1212 (Sep 1, 2009)

dyeguy1212 said:


> Lets leave it at that.




got it. :beer:


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## Usmctanker (Sep 3, 2009)

Carbon Express Maxima Hunters, Magnus Stinger Broadheads.
Some of the only fixed blades that won't plane off at 325fps.
I know its not that fast but a lot of the fixed blades plane and I don't trust mech. heads.


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## dyeguy1212 (Sep 3, 2009)

I'm sorry, but since when is 325 not fast? :lol:


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## russ010 (Sep 3, 2009)

I wish I would have stayed with the bow.. I bought a Hoyt Raider with a 30" draw 9 years ago, and had the guy down in Augusta, GA mock it up for me... I have NO IDEA of what any terminology or specs are for bow hunting - all I remember is this one was special because it had an odd draw lenght (now I can't remember if it was 30" or 31"..), but either way I do remember him telling me it was barely legal with a 28" arrow and some kind of overdraw. He said with the 70lb pull it was close to 375- 380 feet per sec, still to this day don't know how fast that was or is compared to what's on the market - but I never did learn to shoot the dang thing. I gave it to my younger cousin this past year to use and he had to lower the lb to draw back... either way, I watched him and his dad shoot at my parents house the other day and his arrow was hitting target faster than his dad's - and he was standing 10' behind him shooting. Oh well... atleast he's getting use out of them.

My arrow of choice is a 7x57 mauser... bolt action that is!


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## dyeguy1212 (Sep 3, 2009)

sounds like a heck of an antique, if you still had it lol

Was it tough to draw? I wonder if the strings were over twisted, which ups the poundage (so maxed out you might think its 70, but in reality 80 [which can be dangerous, but youd probably be able to tell just from drawing it])

Still sounds like a cool bow though. Hitting those kinds of speeds with an older bow is basically unheard of.


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## russ010 (Sep 3, 2009)

it was actually quite easy to pull back.. the only reason I say it was 70lbs was because the guy at that shop hung it up on a scale hanging from the ceiling and said yep - 70lbs...

either way - I think it had either a 3" or 3.5" overdraw... and it was real light weight. My buddy who tried to get me into shooting bows took it and killed 3 of my arrows with it because he was splitting each one of them right down the middle. I was using carbon fiber (? they were black and expensive) arrows, but I'm not sure about the broad heads... He gave me some that were fixed, and then ones that expanded on impact. I hunted with it 3 or 4 times, and I only saw a deer (doe) once with it... I shot at her but I think my buck fever kicked in because I missed hitting her in the butt by about a foot. She looked up, behind her, then right at me... all I did was shrug my shoulders and told her I missed - she snorted at me in disgust and literally just walked away. That was my last time with that bow, and it sat in my closet for nearly 10 years before I gave it away. He killed a nice buck with it this past weekend... I wish I had scanned it since they didn't have digital pics of it


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## Usmctanker (Sep 3, 2009)

I would call 325 fast but one of my buddies shoot the 08 High Country Speed pro with the speed pro arrows at 365. But you loss a lot when you just go for speed. The speed pro arrows are only 6.5 grains per inch and the brace height is ridiculously short on his bow.


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## Usmctanker (Sep 3, 2009)

I would call 325 fast but one of my buddies shoot the 08 High Country Speed pro with the speed pro arrows at 365. But you loss a lot when you just go for speed. The speed pro arrows are only 6.5 grains per inch and the brace height is ridiculously short on his bow.


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## Quackrstackr (Sep 3, 2009)

Speed Pro arrows are 5.5 gpi fwiw and the brace height on a Speed Pro is 7", I believe.

He's shooting better than IBO speed for that bow if it's actually shooting 365.


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## Usmctanker (Sep 3, 2009)

i just got off the phone with him. his arrow weight is 280gr and his draw length is 30. ibo speed is measured with a 350gr at 29 inchs. sorry to highjack


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## Quackrstackr (Sep 3, 2009)

IBO speed is actually 5gr per lb of pull, 30" draw, 70lb bow.

Most bows will shoot under their rated IBO speed unless they are shooting a super light arrow, and your buddy is shooting some extremely light arrows for a 30" draw. :shock:


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## thudpucker (Sep 3, 2009)

Amazing speeds.
My old Jennings four wheel compound only got up to 50 Fps or so faster than my Red wing Hunter. Finally I got into the real world with a PSE (68 Lb) two wheeler that shot 2117's target at 208 Fps and the bigger 2219 with the big Rothaur's at 205 Fps.

One of my arrows with the Rothaur's went clear through a Moose, hit a Rocky bank about 15 feet behind him, and the Arrow bent so badly at the broadhead it was scrap.

I tried Thunderheads on a 2117 and it was comical to watch the arrow dance and carry on. Four arrows across a gully at a large hay bale target back drop and none of them hit those bales. The Guys with me really learned a lesson that day. 
I just wonder if the Hi-speed over-draw bows can shoot the larger broad heads without planing.

Eventually I went to 2317's with the Rothaur's. That was the good combo for me. All those years and I only wounded one Animal. It took me three days, but I got it too.
String hit the Winter clothes I think.

I was not too surprised to see a Bear reach around and "CHOP" my arrow in two as if it were Spaghetti. But when I saw a Moose do the same thing, I gained a new respect for the vegatarian's. They have Dentures.
I liked the older softer arrows for hunting because they bent and could be straigntend in the field.
Which I did one day while hunting Ptarmigan. 
But in the end, watching shooters now, I think the new stuff is better for hitting because of all that speed.

Overdraw or not, I still think you should shoot the largest Broad head you can make good shots with. The End result is quicker and the chances of losing an injured animal are far less when the hit is more devastating.


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## dyeguy1212 (Sep 3, 2009)

thudpucker said:


> I liked the older softer arrows for hunting because they bent and could be straigntend in the field.
> Which I did one day while hunting Ptarmigan.




tisk tisk... with all the talk of bending aluminum boats back into shape, didnt you ever stop to apply the same principals to arrows?!!!???!!! :shock: 

once my arrows show the slightest malfunction, they are gone forever. I have a massive phobia of cracking an arrow in two on release, and putting the back half into my arm.


Guess its a good phobia to have :lol:


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## Jwengerd (Sep 3, 2009)

I dont think your the only one with that fear dye guy lol I have that same thought floating in the back of my head when im shooting.


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## thudpucker (Sep 3, 2009)

You guys may not see the irony in this, but I always did have that same fear. I had a Fiberglass arrow come apart on release, and quit them that very evening.
I worried about those big 2219's but the Pro said not to worry. My 52 Lb Bear didnt have the umph to do that.
So here you guys are shooting almost three times as fast as I did, and you worry about worrying.
You need to worry! :twisted: Well, not really :lol: 

If I were you, I'd use the hardest Aluminum arrow I could get and never shoot my Target arrows while hunting.

Someday an engineer will graph out for you the stress' those arrows feel upon release. It's just plumb amazing that some arrows with larger broad heads dont buckle at the rest.

You guys who dont shoot targets need to start shooting targets. You'd be surprised at how good you can get.
When you go to a shoot that has a Hundred Dollar Bill tacked onto a Deer at 178.6 yards (Maybe! But can you believe anything from a guy who'd tack a Hundered dollar bill up on a....?)

Those kinds of shoots will tell you what your arrow flight is like compared to some other guys equipment. 
I've seen some pretty sorry arrow action. Even embarrassing. The guy's only offer was; "Well I dont shoot a lot. Just one or two arrows each hunting season!"

I'm a Yankee. I just dont know how you Rebel's get your hunting done. Maybe a guy can get away with that down here. 
But where your shooting at Muley's or Caribou or in some cases a Moose, you better be good at 50 to 70 Yards. That arrow has to fly perfect at those distances.

That's where you see the real value in all that hi-speed and hi-tech equipment and the time at shoots to get it all tuned up together. 

On those long shots my arrows went over a rainbow and fell into the target (Well....  :---) ) where the Under-draw's go right TO the target. 
This new stuff would make a Muzzle stuffer jealous!


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## Jim (Sep 4, 2009)

My first bow...I dont even want to get into what a POS that was. :LOL2:

You could literally see the arrow going up and down during flight. A good lob shot at 20 yards and you might be able to hit the target.


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## russ010 (Sep 4, 2009)

Jim said:


> My first bow...I dont even want to get into what a POS that was. :LOL2:
> 
> You could literally see the arrow going up and down during flight. A good lob shot at 20 yards and you might be able to hit the target.



I found that picture of you Jim!


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## thudpucker (Sep 4, 2009)

I made my first bow, and the arrows, from the brush behind our house.
Everything came from the Brushy Maple trees. Some of the stuff to make arrows came from a Dump site not far away. I still have scars on my upper thumbs from shooting off them as rests.

But I got birds and Rats with that stuff.
Mom wanted me to see a Shrink. She thought I was growing up to be a Killer!


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## Loggerhead Mike (Sep 4, 2009)

lol. that tip must be leathal


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## wasilvers (Sep 30, 2009)

Ok - some mechanical broadhead info for you haters out there. I've shot 3 blade fixed (Muzzy and other brands) and fold back mechanicals (Grim Reapers and Spitfires were the last two tested). Each has been shot from a tree stand straight down into a sheet of plywood on the ground. Each one went thru the plywood and at least 12 inches into the HARD ground. Each would have definitly gone past a rib and into the far rib wall - likly a pass thru. The bow was just an ond Bear/Jennings Avalance shooting about 240 max fps - and that's generous. 

The fixed blade did its damage as expected. Cutting right thru the wood and burying in the ground.

The mechanicals all opened before entering the wood. Funny thing is, because the arrow was spinning on entry, the blades twisted a bit. One more than the others. Each retained it's cutting surface facing forward and did not break. The twisted blade did not make the full diameter, somewhere between 1/8 - 1/4 difference. But still did it's damage.

ALSO

I also hunt from a ground blind with shoot thru mesh. The fixed blades work great thru this, but surprisingly the mechanical ones did too. I know you aren't supposed to use mechanicals with mesh, but I did my homework. I shot mechanicals into a target without the O'ring, with 2 O'rings, with one blade flopping, with them partially open, with one blade flopping and 2 held by O'ring, and 2 blades flopping and one held by O'ring. Great news is, for distances 30 and under (which is all I shoot) there was no real major impact difference. A centered kill shot would have still been a kill shot. If I recall, the most deflection I had was about 4 inches from center @ 30 yards - and that could have been me. I also shot them thru mesh at an angle - assuming dead on would be fine. It worked ok at the 20 yards I was testing. 

It's hard to argue with dead deer - 35 yards spitfire thru mesh, thru branches and put down a yearling (small tasty target)

My problem is not that I can't shooting straight - I'll shoot the nocks off my friends to 30 yards, my problem is judging distances 'on the hoof' 60 yards looks like 50, 15 looks like 30 - I'm just too inconsistent in judging distance. I started putting up those little plastic marker flags (5 for $1) in a big semi circle. The deer dont' mind and they are good targets to shoot at when you are bored  

I've tried new blades every year for 10 years - I believe it's going to be mechanicals year.

Will - shooting a Carbon Express (forgot the size of arrows) from a Bowtech General @ 285 of super quiet fps (field tested)


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## Loggerhead Mike (Sep 30, 2009)

> - I'm just too inconsistent in judging distance



you and me both. i think thats the hardest part of stickin a deer


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