# Water in bearings



## BigTerp (Jun 21, 2015)

I keep getting water in my driver side trailer bearings. I replaced bearings and seals with Timken bearings back in September because of the same issue. I popped the dust cap off yesterday to find a mess of water and rust (worse than in September). Passenger side is fine. The inner bearing is shot which leads me to believe its a grease seal issue. Just trying to figure out if the water is getting in between the seal and the hub or the seal and the spindle. The spindle is in great shape except for the area where the grease seal would seat. It has some rust and is a little rough. I took some steel wool and some very fine wet/dry sandpaper to it when I replaced the bearings to smooth it out. The hub has a few nicks in the area where the grease seal seats as well. Just need to figure out if I need to replace my hub, spindle or both? Can a spindle be replaced? Or would it be best to get a whole new axle if the spindle is shot?

Here are some pics. Let me know what you guys think.

Grease seal area of spindle.











You can see the rest of the spindle is in great shape.





Hub. You can see the one nick where the grease seal would seat. There are probably 4-5 nicks around the grease seal area. You can also see the inner race is shot. These were replaced back in September and look much worse now than the ones I replaced.


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## KMixson (Jun 21, 2015)

There is an item called Speedi-Sleeve. You could install one and that would give you a smooth surface for your seal to ride on. That would be my first option if it were me to keep from having to replace the spindle if you don't have to. I would coat the outer diameter of the seal with a very light coating of silicone to insure a seal between the seal and the hub before installing the seal in the hub.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jun 21, 2015)

KMixson said:


> There is an item called Speedi-Sleeve. You could install one and that would give you a smooth surface for your seal to ride on. That would be my first option if it were me to keep from having to replace the spindle if you don't have to. I would coat the outer diameter of the seal with a very light coating of silicone to insure a seal between the seal and the hub before installing the seal in the hub.


I second the Speedi-Sleeve.


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## BigTerp (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks. How does the speedi-sleeve work? Where can I order one?


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## BigTerp (Jun 22, 2015)

I have the ability to cut off the old spindle and weld on a new one. Looks like the spindle I would need is around $20. Would probably get a new hub assembly while I'm at it for another $25. But how difficult of a job is replacing a spindle? I would think the hardest part would be getting the new spindle absolutely square with the old axle. And looking at my old axle it doesn't look like there is much room for welding on a new spindle. A new spindle comes with a 4" stud. Looks like my old one is welded on with only about 1" of the stud.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jun 22, 2015)

Using emery cloth, sand paper get the spindle as smooth as you can where the seal rides. Take very good measurements with a micrometer and see if there is a new seal with an inner measurement that's a better fit.


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## BigTerp (Jun 22, 2015)

lckstckn2smknbrls said:


> Using emery cloth, sand paper get the spindle as smooth as you can where the seal rides. Take very good measurements with a micrometer and see if there is a new seal with an inner measurement that's a better fit.



Thanks. After going back and forth on options, this is exactly what I've decided to do. I've already ordered a new bearing kit that comes with a double lip seal. After I clean the spindle as best I can, I'll see what it measures at.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jun 22, 2015)

Also if you set the depth of the seal a little deeper in the hub it will ride on a different spot on the spindle.


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## BigTerp (Jun 22, 2015)

Cleaned up the seal area of my spindle this evening. Took a fine wire brush on my drill and gently knocked off most of the corrosion and rust. Then went through a few grits of emery cloth and 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper and smoothed it out and polished it up the best I could. Definitely looks much better. Measurement with a micro meter was less than 1.230 in several spots. Was as small as 1.224 in a spot or two. The seal for my spindle is 1.249. Should I get a smaller seal? I put a seal I had in the shed on it and it didn't seam very snug. Figure that's where the water intrusion is coming from.

Before










After wire wheel and emery cloth





After 2000 grit wet/dry sandpaper and 0000 steel wool. You can see it's a bit pitted on each end of where the seal would ride.


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## WaterWaif (Jun 22, 2015)

BigTerp said:


> I have the ability to cut off the old spindle and weld on a new one. Looks like the spindle I would need is around $20. Would probably get a new hub assembly while I'm at it for another $25. But how difficult of a job is replacing a spindle? I would think the hardest part would be getting the new spindle absolutely square with the old axle. And looking at my old axle it doesn't look like there is much room for welding on a new spindle. A new spindle comes with a 4" stud. Looks like my old one is welded on with only about 1" of the stud.


That 4" stud fits in the square axle tube I believe. Pull to the length stickin out you want. Tack welds will probably try to pull it one way or the other while you align it enough to run your beads.
Vacuum created by running hot hub into water. Any void under seal allows flow, so the spindle where seal rides needs need to be dressed real fine..A mirror finish is asking a lot, but should be close to it, with no voids.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jun 22, 2015)

Look on line for Chicago raw hide or skf seals and see what's available.


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## BigTerp (Jun 22, 2015)

Thanks guys. Can't find any grease seals that would be smaller than the 1.249" standard one. Have been looking at the speedi-sleeves. Looks like part #99141 should work. What do you all think?

https://pdf.directindustry.com/pdf/chicago-rawhide/speedi-sleeve-catalog/11940-66677.html


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## BigTerp (Jun 23, 2015)

Anyone have any experience with these? Might be a good option as well.

https://www.etrailer.com/Seals-for-Trailer-Bearings/Bearing-Buddy/BB60001.html


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## onthewater102 (Jun 23, 2015)

Speedi sleeve looks like a good option - not sure what a powdered epoxy is, something else to hunt down I guess, but it seems to replace the wear surface entirely while being epoxied in place to the original shaft & using the epoxy to fill the old voids between it & the shaft.

Added that one to the favorites list for the day that I'll need it.


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## BigTerp (Jun 23, 2015)

Ordered the #99141 Speedi-Sleeve today. If the sleeve doesn't fit real snug, what should I use to glue it in place? I've seen everything from red loctite to RTV silicone.


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## safetyfast (Jun 23, 2015)

BigTerp said:


> Ordered the #99141 Speedi-Sleeve today. If the sleeve doesn't fit real snug, what should I use to glue it in place? I've seen everything from red loctite to RTV silicone.



Only one I ever used was on a crankshaft on an engine I rebuilt. I used red locktite. If you got the right size, it has to be driven into place and will fit really tight.


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## BigTerp (Jun 23, 2015)

safetyfast said:


> BigTerp said:
> 
> 
> > Ordered the #99141 Speedi-Sleeve today. If the sleeve doesn't fit real snug, what should I use to glue it in place? I've seen everything from red loctite to RTV silicone.
> ...



Thanks!!

Should be the correct size. My spindle is the 1.240" nominal one, but when I measured it after cleaning it up it measures from 1.224-1.230. I ordered the sleeve for the 1.240 shaft size which fit's shaft's of 1.237-1.243. The next size down was 1.216-1.222 and for a nominal shaft size of 1.219. Figured that would be too small.


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## onthewater102 (Jun 23, 2015)

in the manufacturer's pamphlet it discusses a powdered epoxy...not quite sure what that is, but it's intended to be used as a filler as much as an adhesive. Not sure if loctite would perform the same function


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jun 23, 2015)

onthewater102 said:


> in the manufacturer's pamphlet it discusses a powdered epoxy...not quite sure what that is, but it's intended to be used as a filler as much as an adhesive. Not sure if loctite would perform the same function


Loctite is a brand that has lots of products. I'm sure there is one that should work.


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## SumDumGuy (Jun 24, 2015)

green (several choices)


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## BigTerp (Jun 25, 2015)

SumDumGuy said:


> green (several choices)



Green over red?

My seal should be in this evening. Was going to pick up a tube of red loctite to "glue" the sleeve to my spindle. Is green a better choice?


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## KMixson (Jun 25, 2015)

I have never had to "glue" the sleeves in place. They seem to stretch a little while installing them on the spindle creating a watertight seal.


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## SumDumGuy (Jun 25, 2015)

BigTerp said:


> SumDumGuy said:
> 
> 
> > green (several choices)
> ...



According to this link the red is strongest, but we seemed to always use the green when we would "fix" races on some bearing assemblies.

https://us.henkel-adhesives-blog.co...ween-Red-Blue-Green-and-Purple-Threadlockers/


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## BigTerp (Jun 25, 2015)

KMixson said:


> I have never had to "glue" the sleeves in place. They seem to stretch a little while installing them on the spindle creating a watertight seal.



I'm just a little concerned the sleeve might be slightly big for my spindle. Hopefully not though, and it'll be a nice snug fit.


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## BigTerp (Jun 25, 2015)

SumDumGuy said:


> According to this link the red is strongest, but we seemed to always use the green when we would "fix" races on some bearing assemblies.
> 
> https://us.henkel-adhesives-blog.co...ween-Red-Blue-Green-and-Purple-Threadlockers/



Thanks.

Never knew they made a purple or green. I have some blue loctite at home, but thinking that isn't quite strong enough for what I'm using it for. But maybe it is?


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## BigTerp (Jun 25, 2015)

Speedi-Sleeve is going back. Too big. It slides right onto my spindle with ease. The next size down would be too small. Funny thing is I got my new bearings and double lip grease seal in today and the new seal fits well. I can see the spring expand when I put it on the spindle. It measures about 1.215-1.220 I.D. My spindle is from 1.224-1.230. So I'm thinking the extra seal I test fitted with the other day is too big. I'm going to put everything back together and use this new seal and see what happens. Hoping that cleaning up my spindle and a new seal will fix my issues. Maybe the spindle condition was tearing up my seals? If it doesn't work, it won't take long to find out. I also typically fish behind my house since I have river access in my sub division. So I won't be traveling very far with the boat on the trailer until hunting season. By then I'll definitely know if I need a new spindle or axle. Hopefully not though!! [-o<


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## WaterWaif (Jun 27, 2015)

Well, at least you know to keep an eye on it in case it slings grease onto wheel.
Means you won't be "that guy" getting waved at on the road by passersby when your hub is smokin.. #-o 
Worse case if kept greased would be premature wear on the seal lip, but it still will be better than it was.
Never tried it due to suspicion of not getting into rear bearing, but have seen dust caps with a grease zerk installed to keep grease supplied to front/ outside bearing at least. Not on the level as other types like bearing buddies but a annual teardown is better in my opinion than faith no water got in during use and all is greased equally.


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## BigTerp (Jun 29, 2015)

Seems to be OK. Got everything installed and back together Friday evening and fished for a few hours. When I put my boat in at the boat ramp behind my house, almost all of both wheels are in the water. I popped the cap off Saturday and everything looked good. Just have to keep an eye on it.

As far as bearing buddies go, I think the advantage to them keeping water out is they keep a bit of pressure on the grease within the hub. They are not very expensive and the next time I change out bearings or have any issues I may give them a try.


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## nowgrn4 (Aug 1, 2015)

Something to consider. In the early nineties I had an old galvanized Murray trailer ('83) with a buggered up seal surface on one axle spindle. A childhood friend that is a sales rep for Kaman Industries told me to try installing the seal backwards where it would ride on a pristine portion of the spindle seal surface. I ran it like this for many years without an issue. Downside; It's a bit of a trick to mount the hub with the seal reversed and the old bearing buddies we used back then would like a couple of additional squirts of grease on that side too. Upside; you will never have to worry about the inside of of the wheel or inside fender rusting out because of the slung grease. :shock:


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## BigTerp (Aug 3, 2015)

Thanks. Not a bad idea.

Cleaning up the spindle and getting it as smooth as possible seemed to fix my issue. I've had my boat out 5 or 6 times since then. Popped the cap off over the weekend and dry as a bone.


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