# simple front deck - how to frame?



## akjw7 (Sep 10, 2008)

Hi all,

I want to do a simple front deck on my jon boat. Just had to remove the front step thing to do some plate reinforcing behind the bow handle and instead of putting it back in want to do a small deck to give some storage up front. 

Can anyone give me the basic standard for framing it? I want to use aluminum angle on the boat gunwale then I was thinking of using 2x2 for the frame - maybe with a vertical support or two in the middle of the deck - with some 1/2" ply on top (it's what I have)

Maybe 2' or 3' tops on the deck length - not a big one...

If anyone has any pics or links to a step by step of a simple deck I'd love to see. Been browsing quite a bit, but there's a ton of great projects here and I'm not finding what I need yet! 

Thanks


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## Jim (Sep 10, 2008)

:WELCOME: aboard!

Thanks for joining.

Look at PBW's thread for some good ideas for your deck. 

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=964


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 10, 2008)

:WELCOME:


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## Waterwings (Sep 10, 2008)

Welcome Aboard! 8)


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## akjw7 (Sep 10, 2008)

Thanks gang, friendly board here!  

That's quite a thread you pointed me to. Wow! I like those brackets mounted to the ribs to hold the vertical posts - seems like a great idea. 

*But* my front step is out, so I can't use it for support (that's why I thought of the aluminum angle riveted to the sides). There aren't any ribs up there and I'm only thinking of bringing it back to just aft of the very first rib, so I can't really use that to anchor my vertical posts anyway. 

Maybe I'll have to put a piece of plywood down on the floor and screw my vertical posts to that...it wouldn't be a very big piece. 

You can see from this pic that I had a floor right up to the front step so a lot of my new deck will already have a floor under it that I can attach to easily...now that I think of it, I might want to consider cutting my floor where it meets the rear vertical wall of the front deck so that I don't have to pull the front deck to remove the floor...hmmm)

Sorry - I'm thinking in type here and muddying the thread. Back in a minute!

(of course you can also see my giant aluminum plate...there is a badly busted seam below the bow handle, the bow handle itself was cracking the aluminum and ripping out, and there was a nasty crack right in the middle of the top of the bow...just plating everything and then hide it behind the deck. Get some welding done to seal up the seam on the front more for cosmetic reasons than anything else...the structure is solid with this plate riveted in! )


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## smoody (Sep 10, 2008)

AK, i think this is what you are looking for, i did not design this, but i modeled my own jon framing by it, this guy did a jam up job on it,aluminum is the best way to go. good luck

https://www.guestfamily.com/robertg/jpdeck.htm


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## akjw7 (Sep 10, 2008)

while I'm trying to think of what question to ask next in this thread - a little about me! 

I'm in Alaska and we use our jon boats a little differently than many of you, this one has a 50hp jet on it! (its a 16' x 36"...I guess it might be a little overpowered!) I use it running rivers chasing fish and critters. Been out moose hunting the past two weekends in it... I just got this boat and am fixing some leaky rivets, a few cracks, and other abuses and


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## akjw7 (Sep 10, 2008)

smoody said:


> AK, i think this is what you are looking for



wow that's some deck, I don't think I can afford that much aluminum though, I'm just going to buy a couple feet to use as brackets for 2x2's...much cheaper (I really like that aluminum rig though, just too much $)

Anyone able to explain to me the downward angle of that deck? Is it so it's level sitting in the water or while up on step?


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## smoody (Sep 10, 2008)

AK, i dont know your budget but you can by that for less then $120 and it will outlast you. i know a site you can get aluminum pretty cheap, its saved on my favorites at work, will post tomorrow. 1 1/4 x 1 1x4 x 1/8 aluminum angle is all you need. 

no matter what you use good luck and post pics.

regards

ja


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## smoody (Sep 10, 2008)

akjw7 said:


> smoody said:
> 
> 
> > AK, i think this is what you are looking for
> ...




AK, as for that angle, yes it was designed that way to be level, but it was designed for that boat which for some reason had a very small bow deck. You would modify that obviosly to fit your boat, I also think the link above to that floor framing is pretty awesome with the 2x2's. only thing with wood is if you ever fish in the rain and it gets wet its gets heavy, even marine ply will absorb some water. seal your wood with epoxy or a good sealer. epoxy resin being in my opinion the best option as a sealer, another tip is to use a wood putty to fill the voids on the edge of your ply, then seal. 

FYI - some sealer contain chemicals that will corrode aluminum, so check that before application.


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## akjw7 (Sep 10, 2008)

mine has (had now I guess since I took it out for the plate reinforcement job!) a very small bow deck...I actually call it a step, that's really all it is to me.

I priced that angle at lowes the other day - I want to say it was over $25 per 8'...I'll have to go look again, but at any rate it's more than I can spend. I can rip a $2 2x4 and have all the framing lumber I need...pretty cheap and not much time to redo when it rots out in a couple years. I really like the arguments for building it to last a lifetime and if I had the $ I would, but I can't justify the cost when I can just put some elbow grease into redoing it in a few years and save some money for gas today! 

Anyone know a way to work with diamond plate without a brake? I've got a 2'x6" piece that I'd like to bend to form a cap for the top of the bow...but in the front it needs to be at greater than a 90* angle and the rear needs a 90* angle. I guess I might have to cut it and take it to a shop to be welded.


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## SlimeTime (Sep 10, 2008)

I wouldn't want the deck much higher than the seats, but.....your boat. Keep the COG lower, it'll make it more stable.

Get 2 pieces of heavy angle, hang 1 over a workbench to make a clean (sharp) edge, lay your material down on it & C-Clamp the other angle on top of it, lining-up your mark (a 1/8" cut with a hacksaw on your mark will help). Work slow, use a piece of 2X4 & a hand-sledge for uniform bend.

ST


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## akjw7 (Sep 10, 2008)

It's a narrow boat, I defintely agree the deck needs to be low! Sorry if I confused things with that off topic diamond plate question. That is a separate issue, I just want to _cap_ the top of the bow. Purely cosmetic since it's got a nasty crack there. 

That is separate from the deck. I plan the deck to be about the same height as the old 'step', just extended aft a bit further for a more secure footing when stepping in off a steep bank and also for some storage. So it will be 3" or so below the top of the gunwale and extend aft to just beyond the very first rib.


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## smoody (Sep 10, 2008)

akjw7 said:


> mine has (had now I guess since I took it out for the plate reinforcement job!) a very small bow deck...I actually call it a step, that's really all it is to me.
> 
> I priced that angle at lowes the other day - I want to say it was over $25 per 8'...I'll have to go look again, but at any rate it's more than I can spend. I can rip a $2 2x4 and have all the framing lumber I need...pretty cheap and not much time to redo when it rots out in a couple years. I really like the arguments for building it to last a lifetime and if I had the $ I would, but I can't justify the cost when I can just put some elbow grease into redoing it in a few years and save some money for gas today!
> 
> Anyone know a way to work with diamond plate without a brake? I've got a 2'x6" piece that I'd like to bend to form a cap for the top of the bow...but in the front it needs to be at greater than a 90* angle and the rear needs a 90* angle. I guess I might have to cut it and take it to a shop to be welded.



AK, I am not knocking your idea, I actually misred your first post about using aluminum, i thought you meant the entire framing. I wasn't trying to argue the point, just helpful advice. 
good luck and sorry again.


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## bobessary (Sep 10, 2008)

no matter what you decide to do on the front deck one of the easiest ways if learned how to come up with a plan especially when you are working with tough angles and awkward measurements use cardboard to make a template and then you have a stencil to go off of you can build a whole false deck out of it to see how big you want the deck to be also hope that helps


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## Berk (Sep 11, 2008)

I am a new member here and i would like to say that i would use aluminum angle for the frame with a composite plywood decking or some material that will not rot if it gets wet. The angle is lighter than wood supports. You can mount the angle to the support ribs inside that stick up with pop rivits or short screws. i would recomend pop riviting every 3 inches so it is sturdy enough to support the pressure and then the angle that will support the plywood you can bolt it all together to make a square and then set it in to top it off. Also i would put some stirofoam underneath it to help with bouyance. Becasue you are adding more wieght to the boat and these boats really arent made to stand up on leke bass boats. I just started mine so when i get some photos of it i will get them posted.


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 11, 2008)

welcome berk good looking job


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

yep looking good, keep at it!

Smoody - no need to apologize, keep the ideas coming!

I went by the steel shop and can get 25' of 1 1/4" x 1/8" angle for $33...not too bad, I was surprised. Much better price than home depot!

I may use the angle after all, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how to do it in places where the angle needed is less or more than the 90* of the angle. Example - the front of the deck at the bow, probably only a 40* angle from the bow surface to where you'd want your deck resting to be level...how do you adjust using 90* angle? Bend it? Shim it somehow? Same goes for the rear support. That very front rib (that will be the aft end of my deck) is canted as well.

I'm thinking of something like this for the framing using angle. Thoughts? Especially need help on how to make the front piece of angle produce a horizontal surface for the decking. Same for the small pieces of angle that will be on the floor that the vertical posts will attach to - how to get them to produce a level surface. Actually that last bit might not matter...as long as there is a piece to bolt to the bottom mount wouldn't need to be level...


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

just realized my aft vertical post needs to actually be two supports with them spaced however far apart I want my opening for storage to be. No problem.

I'll finish the rear vertical part with another piece of ply with just a hole cut out for the storage area...no need for a door, it's a small space and will just have some life vests crammed in there and anything else that will fit. Mostly doing this to hide the plating work and to give a bit larger landing pad for steping into the boat off a high cut bank. (so I do want it strong)

Suggestions? comments? Disparaging remarks? Ok maybe not that last one...

thanks!


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

Mods - I didn't see the subforum on jon boat mods. Sorry for the extra work if you have to move this thread. Thanks


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## SlimeTime (Sep 11, 2008)

I wouldn't shim them. Do you have a local sheetmetal shop? See what they'd charge to shear some 1/8" aluminum & form the angles to your specs.

There's always wood :wink: ................

ST


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

Yeah that's what I was thinking (wood). I guess for the front support accross the bow I could always just rivet the piece of angle on so that the height of the angle was where I wanted the deck to rest. Be kind of on a knife edge instead of the 1"1/4" shelf of the angle but given the short span I bet it would work just fine. 

picked up my 25' of angle today...$30 didn't seem bad at all and I should have enough for some other projects! Need to get a timing issue on my outboard fixed if it goes well then I can start on the deck tonight, if not...well I need the outboard for moose hunting - the deck will have to wait!


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

The customized aluminum angle seems like something I could probably do myself with the improvised break idea someone posted earlier in this thread...I might get a small piece of flat 1/8" stock and see what I can rig.


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## BassNBob (Sep 11, 2008)

This is what I did to mine and then screwed the 3/4" P/W to the suprt. structure and then laid the carpet. If you need more pics just PM me a message.


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

BassNBob - that first rib (the midpoint of your deck) is canted at an angle - how did you attach your vertical posts to that to get them vertical?

The bigger problem I have vs. your setup is that my front 'step' is out of the boat so I have to run my deck framing all the way to the front of the bow - problem being how to get from that angle to support the deck. See image if it helps... (the light green area is the very first rib...about where I'll end my deck, forgot to label it)


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## bobessary (Sep 11, 2008)

put one more piece of aluminum channel like this rivet to the bottom and then use bolts to the 3 problem points that you pointed out easy removal


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

ok yeah, not sure why I didn't think of that! 

Really not much stress that direction either, probably could do 6 or 8" chunks too instead of one big piece...

I didn't want to rivet through the hull down close to the waterline, but can just gluvit the pop rivets if I have to get that low (The rear support at the first rib is the only one near the waterline on the bottom, so I will try to attach to the rib somehow even though it's canted, so I can avoid that issue altogether)

**** EDIT****
Thought about it some more and I don't think it will work - my drawing was a bit oversimplified....Small sections of angle may still work, but one long piece won't due to the curve of the bottom.


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## SlimeTime (Sep 11, 2008)

akjw7 said:


> Yeah that's what I was thinking (wood). I guess for the front support accross the bow I could always just rivet the piece of angle on so that the height of the angle was where I wanted the deck to rest. Be kind of on a knife edge instead of the 1"1/4" shelf of the angle but given the short span I bet it would work just fine.


Once you attach your angle, you could shim the top, so your decking makes full-contact. I think they make composite window/door shims now, you could cut a few down to fit the points you attach the decking to the angle. Or, if you've got a table saw, you could determine the wedge & rip a piece of 2-by, and seal it good.

ST


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

I think ripping a piece of wood to the right angle is the best plan for the bow rail there....no table saw but I can do it with my circular saw...close enough anyway! Just use another board for a jig so I can get it straight!


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## SlimeTime (Sep 11, 2008)

akjw7 said:


> The customized aluminum angle seems like something I could probably do myself with the improvised break idea someone posted earlier in this thread...I might get a small piece of flat 1/8" stock and see what I can rig.



You won't be able to form a piece of 1/8" aluminum (of any length) by hand.

ST


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## akjw7 (Sep 11, 2008)

I did this one...not pretty but I did it.


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## SlimeTime (Sep 11, 2008)

I should have added with a sharp form-line :wink: 

ST


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## BassNBob (Sep 11, 2008)

That's whats good about this forumn, alot of heads together can resolve a lot of issues. I'm glad you found a solution.


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

Yeah the radius isn't very tight, I was actually surprised that I was able to get it as good as I was.

I made it to the boat launch and was able to adjust the spark advance on the 50hp - think I got the high end miss fixed!!! =D> I was able to run it in forward at full rpm straped to the trailer, but I forgot my hip boots so I couldn't take it for a spin (should have been my first clue that I was too tired to be working on stuff tonight!). 

Got started laying the deck out tonight, but as I said earlier my brain wasn't working very well...and well...I built it to the second rib by accident!  I would be ok with my mistake if A) I had the plywood to do a bigger deck and B) I didn't mind it taking so much of my space in the boat.

So...

Since I am leaving straight from work tomorrow for moose hunting and am out of time...I just pulled it all out, should be a pretty easy fix to shorten it up to my intended first rib. The sides are going to still take some figuring out - got an idea on the bow that I think will work. We'll see! 

I'll pick this project back up next week, thanks again for the posts


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## SlimeTime (Sep 12, 2008)

Best thing to do when you're that tired ......is to go fishing :mrgreen: Good luck on the moose hunt!

ST


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## smoody (Sep 12, 2008)

AK, wow you got a steal on that aluminum, my locals just quoted me $2 a ft. seeing as you paid less then $1 a ft, you should buy all you can for future projects, heck where are you located? I may have you get me some and ship it.


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

$1.20 a foot, but who's counting?!  I may grab a little more because they had two 5' chunks they were going to sell me at $1 a foot. 

I'm in Fairbanks Alaska - trust me you don't want to ship anything to or from here! :shock: :shock: :shock:


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## smoody (Sep 12, 2008)

akjw7 said:


> $1.20 a foot, but who's counting?!  I may grab a little more because they had two 5' chunks they were going to sell me at $1 a foot.
> 
> I'm in Fairbanks Alaska - trust me you don't want to ship anything to or from here! :shock: :shock: :shock:



Oh ok, my aunt took a trip to Alaska for a week. sent a card out to us the same day she arrived, we got the card after her return..lol

I found an old fab shop close by, was just quoted $54 and some change for 1 x 1 x 1/8". not bad. 

I am about to start my 4th mod her soon, I am going to start a thread on it and post pics along with video on the process, im starting from scratch with a 1999 Lowe 1448. 

My first mod was a 1987 Alumacraft 1232, I used all wood, it turned out ok, got really heavy when wet, thats the reason I suggest aluminum, thats the best option for any framing on a jon boat and as you see its not that expensive seeing it will last forever. Im even pricing 4x8x1/4 sheets of aluminum to use as the deck, may be to expensive though, either way all my under framing will be aluminum L. 

here are pics of my first boat


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

cool - nice job, I saw that boat when I was searching for ideas on how to do mine! (the postcard thing is classic and very true...gotta love it)

Boat is gased and loaded...once the whistle blows on this workweek I'm out the door and down the road. Only an hour to the river and maybe 20 minutes to my camp. Few other pics -


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## hatch17 (Sep 12, 2008)

Awesome pics, thanks for sharing. I wish I was fishing right now. :evil:


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## smoody (Sep 12, 2008)

> I found an old fab shop close by, was just quoted $54 and some change for 1 x 1 x 1/8". not bad.



Let me finish that sentence, $54 for 50 ft of Aluminum L. 2 - 25' pieces

Very nice pics, man that place is nice


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

seems like you found a good buy, that's cheaper than mine and no shipping either!

Yeah it's like nothing else up here, but we pay for it all winter long! (all 7 maybe 8 months of it) With that much winter you have to be into winter sports to stay sane - Had an ice rink in the backyard last year for the kids, that was fun! But it's ice fishing and snow machining for me with some occasional cold weather hunts too.


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 12, 2008)

nice pictures and nice pike =D>


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

That old girl was 42.5 caught last summer...managed a 44" this summer that weighed 20lbs and I had a client catch a 49" right after I suggested that he put on a secret lure. All released to fight another day. 

50* right now, overcast and rainy - perfect for moose hunting! Speaking of weather, I sure feel bad for the folks in Texas; what a storm. Thoughts and prayers... [-o<


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## Zum (Sep 12, 2008)

Thats a big fish...nice pics


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## Waterwings (Sep 12, 2008)

Nice pics.....but too cold for me, lol ! You know, I've always referred to them tracked vehicles as snowmobiles, until I heard Palin say on tv the other night that they're snow_machines_. We learn something new everyday


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

yep our governess has it right =D> =D> =D> 

We call it that so we can tell who is from "outside" (another Alaskan term, like mainland in hawaii)

you can tell someone has spent time in the bush parts of Alaska if they refer to a snow machine as a sno-go. That's the common term in the villages.


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## Waterwings (Sep 12, 2008)

We can tell who the "outsiders" are here..................they don't say "Y'all", which can be used in a singular or plural sense, lol


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## akjw7 (Sep 12, 2008)

ha! Yep that's the sprit! Although... :wink: I've known some people from areas other than yours that have used that phrase!


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## Waterwings (Sep 12, 2008)

8)


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## akjw7 (Sep 17, 2008)

Well got it done, I'm happy so I guess that's all that matters!

I shortened it up to the first rib as I intended...it just took up to much floor space otherwise. Ended up doing the edge support by riviting angle to the side of the gunwale - it supports the ply on knife edge, not ideal but more than adequate in this case with the small spans involved. 

rigging the vertical posts to the existing ply floor was more difficult, but I like my solution even if it's a little ways from perfect. Hard to explain, hopefully you can see it in the picture. I cut a small piece of angle and attached it to the floor oriented fore-aft. I simply riveted my vertical piece of angle to the piece on the floor with a single rivet so they could pivot to the proper angle. Once achieved I added a few more rivets to lock it down. It's plenty solid. 

Decked it, added the vertical piece and carpeted all. Looks great, is the perfect function (life vests and anchor are all in there), and it's plenty strong and sturdy enough for my 200+lbs to take a couple foot step down off a river bank onto it with no problems.

Thanks for the tips, it all helped!


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## smoody (Sep 17, 2008)

Nice job, I like it! do you plan to deck out the rest of the boat?


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## hatch17 (Sep 17, 2008)

I think it looks great!


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 17, 2008)

looks good are you decking the rest of the boat


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## akjw7 (Sep 17, 2008)

no more decking, just that bit up front to hide the plate reinforcing I had to do on the bow cracks. It still has to be utilitarian - hauling camping gear, moose, etc...just can't add the weight to do anymore and as narrow as the boat is (36" bottom) you wouldn't really want most of it decked...too tippy.

By the way - I had the boat up to 30mph going down river this past weekend - it's a fun little ride with that 50hp jet on it. :shock:


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## SlimeTime (Sep 17, 2008)

Looks great!

ST


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 17, 2008)

congrats on the speed just be carefull


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## Waterwings (Sep 17, 2008)

Nice job! 8)


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## akjw7 (Mar 13, 2009)

huh, I wonder why the old attached pics aren't showing up in the thread? They come up if I click, but the dreaded red x is all I see in the thread.

Anyway - I lucked into a new old boat -this one a 1648 so a little wider which is needed badly! It has a little console, but it's way too far forward and the motor is only a 45. I probably will move the console, find controls for my 50, and swap motors. Boat needs some welding where the bottom was ripped from the transom by boulders, but other than that I probably won't do much to this boat other than a floor and some rod holders! Sorry she won't be a very interesting conversion but I'm excited anyway!


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## ben2go (Mar 13, 2009)

Looks good.I need a bigger boat also.


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