# Illegal? Unethical? What say you.....



## Keystone (Sep 7, 2014)

Personally I find the wanton waste of any game completely unacceptable. This video says allot..... 

[youtube]ZzdesfXfaTY[/youtube]


edit: can not get the Youtube video to imbed for some reason...


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## DocWatson (Sep 7, 2014)

Ignorant and stupid have no cure !!! They should have called fish and game and filed a report.


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## Keystone (Sep 7, 2014)

[url=https://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?p=365697#p365697 said:


> DocWatson » Today, 19:44[/url]"]Ignorant and stupid have no cure !!! They should have called fish and game and filed a report.




Agree with you on that, and I hope they followed up with that.


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## Keystone (Sep 7, 2014)

I am happy to see the Canadian Authorities are looking into this already.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Ontario-Conservation-Officers-Association/1417300041815881?ref=br_tf

OCOA wishes to advise that this video and details are being investigated. 

We thank you our friends of the OCOA for sending us this video. Please share that this is not a reporting line but we appreciate all of your concerns! 

Please be advised this video contains foul language.

OCOA supports Conservation Officers with this investigation.

This information has been reported to the MNR TIPS LINE from another caller.

If you witness offences against fish and wildlife please contact the MNR TIPS LINE at 1-877-TIPS - MNR or Crimestoppers at 1-800-222-TIPS."


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## Butthead (Sep 7, 2014)

Unreal! Watching that made my blood boil. :evil:


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## ccm (Sep 8, 2014)

I believe Bill Heavey put it best there are


> morons among us


. https://books.google.com/books?id=e...Bill Heavey there are morons among us&f=false this is from the February 2007 issue of Field & Stream. Seeing that video made me think of that such article; it talks about hunting but it can cross over to all aspects of the outdoors. It just makes me furious that there are still such unethical outdoorsmen that give the rest of us a bad name. Just imagine if a non outdoorsman saw this, what would they think about the rest of us.


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## earl60446 (Sep 8, 2014)

Luckily the moron was not indiscreet about it, yelling and such, beating the fish in open. He could have easily ended its life unseen. Lucky for the rest of us sportsmen that is and he is so belligerent about it too when confronted. What did the "so is smoking pot" comments have to do with anything? Dude definitely needs a attitude adjustment although killing one fish will probably not bring a big fine.
Tim


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## rscottp (Sep 8, 2014)

Pathetic and disrespectful! Sad to see people with no respect for other living creatures. Hope the law finds that guy.


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## muskiemike12 (Sep 8, 2014)

He is just another douche bag wearing an affliction t-shirt. Hopefully they take his fishing license away.


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## muskiemike12 (Sep 16, 2014)

The douche bag , Eddie Parent, apologizes, but I'm not buying his BS.
https://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/accused-muskie-hater-apologizes-for-killing-fish-and-heated-confrontation


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## PSG-1 (Sep 16, 2014)

Another poster child for the old statement:

*"@$$holes are alive because they are a protected species, it is illegal to harm or kill them*"


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## earl60446 (Sep 16, 2014)

[url=https://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?p=366335#p366335 said:


> muskiemike12 » Today, 06:35[/url]"]The douche bag , Eddie Parent, apologizes, but I'm not buying his BS.
> https://blogs.windsorstar.com/news/accused-muskie-hater-apologizes-for-killing-fish-and-heated-confrontation



So the scumbag kills muskie for no reason and then makes up extravagant lies about it too. Almost sounds like he was coached by some lawyer. 5 years banned from all fishing and hunting I say, $2000 fine. Mainly because he is a liar.

Tim


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## SumDumGuy (Sep 16, 2014)

I have complete faith in the justice system.
I am betting that nothing will happen to the guy.


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## PatinIdaho (Sep 16, 2014)

[url=https://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?p=366355#p366355 said:


> SumDumGuy » 16 Sep 2014, 10:17[/url]"]I have complete faith in the justice system.
> I am betting that nothing will happen to the guy.



That's my guess also!


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## lswoody (Sep 16, 2014)

That's messed up!!


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## New River Rat (Sep 29, 2014)

The New River is overran with these stinking muskies. I probably have a very different view than those here. The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (think Department of Natural Resourses) has filled the New River with these stinkin' things and ruined what was once a world class trophy smallmouth river. We (the taxpayers/licensees) footed the bill for this ill conceived atrocity, We were never asked our opinions or input, just watched the VDGIF play god and do whatever they wanted, but yet by the same token, they are trying to eradicate snakeheads that have shown up in VA's waterways due to the fact they are an invasive species.....guess what? Muskies ain't native to the New. Double standard here. A floating muskie anywhere doesn't bother me a bit.


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## BassAddict (Sep 29, 2014)

I was taught you eat what you kill, that's the only thing keeping Ahab alive..............


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## Captain Ahab (Sep 30, 2014)

New River Rat said:


> The New River is overran with these stinking muskies. I probably have a very different view than those here. The Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (think Department of Natural Resourses) has filled the New River with these stinkin' things and ruined what was once a world class trophy smallmouth river. We (the taxpayers/licensees) footed the bill for this ill conceived atrocity, We were never asked our opinions or input, just watched the VDGIF play god and do whatever they wanted, but yet by the same token, they are trying to eradicate snakeheads that have shown up in VA's waterways due to the fact they are an invasive species.....guess what? Muskies ain't native to the New. Double standard here. A floating muskie anywhere doesn't bother me a bit.



You do realize that Small Mouth are not a native species either - correct?


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## fender66 (Sep 30, 2014)

BAN BA....that will fix a LOT!


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## New River Rat (Sep 30, 2014)

Captain Ahab said:


> You do realize that Small Mouth are not a native species either - correct?



I have been told that by various persons, yes. Do I believe it? I'm not certain. If you research long enough and read enough reports, you should come away uncertain as well. Various maps show the native range skirting the New River in North Carolina and Virginia, some ranges show it included, some not. However, the whole of West Virginia is usually shown as native, which includes the Ohio and its drainage's. These primary ones are the Kanawha and the New. Nobody can state that the smallmouth is non-indigenous for positive.


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## DocWatson (Sep 30, 2014)

New River Rat said:


> Captain Ahab said:
> 
> 
> > You do realize that Small Mouth are not a native species either - correct?
> ...



According to this abstract smallmouth are NOT native to the New River....

"Smallmouth bass (Micropterus dolomieu) are not native to the New River of Virginia (Jenkins and Burkhead 1993). They are a relatively new addition to the upper New River fish fauna (Haller- man et al. 2005). The historic native fish fauna consisted of few traditional game fishes, with the exception of channel catfish (Icta- lurus punctatus) and flathead catfish (Pylodictis olivaris) (Jenkins and Burkhead 1993)." 

And from Wikipedia....

"The smallmouth bass is native to the upper and middle Mississippi River basin, the Saint Lawrence River–Great Lakes system, and up into the Hudson Bay basin.
Seems pretty definitive to me and I am certain that they are not native to that river system."

Lastly, this abstract states that the impact on the smallmouth population by muskie predation is minimal.


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## New River Rat (Oct 1, 2014)

Like I said, it depends on whose report you read.


Native Range: St. Lawrence and Great Lakes, Hudson Bay (Red River), and Mississippi River basins from southern Quebec to North Dakota and south to northern Alabama and eastern Oklahoma; Atlantic and Gulf slope drainages from Virginia to central Texas (Page and Burr 1991).


The native range of the smallmouth bass encompasses most of the Great Lakes, upper Mississippi River, and Ohio River basins plus some tributaries of the lower Missouri and lower Mississippi basins (Robbins and MacCrimmon 1974). This range stretches from northern Minnesota, Ontario, and Quebec in the north to northern Alabama, southern Arkansas, and extreme southeastern Oklahoma in the south and from eastern South Dakota in the west to western Vermont and Quebec in the east. 














These maps show a conceived representation of the ranges. They are subject to interpretation and are not displaying necessarily concrete boundaries.

Like I said, there is no conclusive evidence to make me feel they are indigenous or non indigenous. If they were native to the Ohio, and it's tributaries, the Kanawha and New could have been a home range as well.


For what it's worth, I do not believe everything I read about fish or the activity of fishing. We (anglers) are told this event is fact or this situation must be approached in a very specific way, to the point that we will accept anything as fact. I think it shows a gullibility on our part to belive what we are told and not to ask our own questions. 

I'll debate no further, because these are no more than opinions and I really don't want to get in a pissing match over those.


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## bobberboy (Oct 1, 2014)

But isn't the debate here whether it's ethical - or not - to be wasting game fish by bashing them on the head and leaving them to float away? The question of whether the muskies are eating other game fish isn't relevant. In my state (MN) a lot of money is spent on supporting the walleye population. I don't have the facts but I wouldn't be surprised if the money spent to support the walleye population is equal to all other species combined. I don't fish walleyes and so I don't really care but others do and I have to accept that as being a part of the fishing community. If I owned the world the lakes would be stocked with #6 largemouth bass but I don't and they aren't. My state DNR makes decisions based on a variety of factors including providing a sport fishery for a variety of interests. Whether I personally agree doesn't matter. It is what it is. Not agreeing however does not give me the right to bash the fish I'm not interested in.


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## Keystone (Oct 1, 2014)

bobberboy said:


> Not agreeing however does not give me the right to bash the fish I'm not interested in.




Exactly my feelings. I could care less if I ever catch another Bass (Small or Largemouth). But when I do I release them as gently as I would a Walleye, Northern, Bullhead or any other creature.


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## DocWatson (Oct 1, 2014)

New River Rat said:


> Like I said, it depends on whose report you read.
> 
> 
> Native Range: St. Lawrence and Great Lakes, Hudson Bay (Red River), and Mississippi River basins from southern Quebec to North Dakota and south to northern Alabama and eastern Oklahoma; Atlantic and Gulf slope drainages from Virginia to central Texas (Page and Burr 1991).
> ...



I wasn't debating anything with you. Just pointing out the facts as science interprets the data. :wink: Even by your own posted maps, the New is east of the "native range".


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## New River Rat (Oct 1, 2014)

I said I was through....I musta lied. 

I have been a govt employee in a prior career. I am very aware of how scientific data can be skewed to keep a paycheck coming. I know our VDGIF New River muskie biologist very well, have spent time with him in the shock boat. I know our VDGIF New River smallmouth biologist very well. You would be amazed at how "things" work when salary is polluting the "scientific data". Keep in mind, they're human.






Native Range: ..............Atlantic and Gulf slope drainages from Virginia ..... (Page and Burr 1991). This would include the New. And the maps show the native range to cover all of West Virginia, which includes the New. I guess the native smallmouth from WV stopped at the VA state line and never crossed. And I repeat; These maps show a conceived representation of the ranges. They are subject to interpretation and are not displaying necessarily concrete boundaries.


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## whistler (Nov 3, 2014)

Keystone, Good on ya for standing up for what you believe. New River Rat I'm sorry to say there are many out there like you. I understand your feelings and your concerns with your loss of a special fishing hole and the smallmouth is a very special fish no question about it. Many times people look to anything they can to figure out what happened, why can't I catch what I used to. They want to be a biologist and have their opinion of what is going on under that surface. Do the biologist really know........I think they work within the best means they have available but that is not an exact science so they look for unexplained trends. I have also put some time on a shocking boat. They (shocking boats) are not a population density machine, but used more to hopefully get a sampling of some year class fish for further study etc. Many other things could be happening down there. I have watched biologist put down the numbers and stood beside them for days as we tallied the fish killed in a total eradication study in small lakes and ponds. I worked the Crooked Creek study on Lake Barkley in 1978 when 14 southeastern states, many universities, and federal agencies were involved and approx. 280 acres were totally killed out. Many smaller block nets inside the perimeter were put out for other studies. Each netted area personnel collected the fish only found inside his/her netted area. These were all kept separate, each species, inch group, etc was also tabulated. Each day every group went to their site and picked up the dead fish. Then the sorting and counting began. Massive amounts of information. 

Back to the original thoughts these biologist have data on all of our waters dating back for years and years. Even if a biologist skewed the data to make things look good I cannot see where it would have dramatic effects on the years of data collected.


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