# 14'-6" Jon Boat project questions.



## keppdog2 (May 27, 2009)

I have a 14'-6" x 50" wide Jon Boat that I am looking to turn into a duck hunting / Fish ing Boat. It is an all rivited boat. Below is the boat as it is now:








I was thinking of taking out the front bench, and the front deck. See the picture below for what im trying to accomplish:






The next picture show a boat where the builders took out all of the seats and installed braces to support the sides. Is this safe? Can you run a boat without any floation foam? 







Questions:

1. Can you cut out the bench seats and install braces without running the risk of the sides falling out?
2. How much foam should I attempt to maintain?
3. Does anyone have any advise on working with aluminum? I have never worked with it and was looking for some online info if there is any.
4. Best way for me to accomplish building the front deck for storage of life vests,etc. and mounting a trolling motor and nav lights?

Any ideas on how I could acomplish what im thinking is appriciated.

Thanks


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## ben2go (May 27, 2009)

1) Yes you can remove center benches but it has to be braced very well or the hull will taco.

2)Foam doesn't add floatation.It's there to help keep the boat floating high enough that it can be bailed out if it get swamped.If the weight limit is exceeded the boat will sink reguardless of foam.It's not recommend that the foam be removed.However some of us have removed the foam.

3)Check the mods section.There is alot of info there about build and bracing hulls.

4)The best way is the strongest and lightest,but that's not the cheapest way.Check out the mods section for different ways of doing things.


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## Zum (May 27, 2009)

You will notice on their boat,that they already had some bracing(factory).
I don't see any in your boat so the seats are your bracing.It's still possible but yours are probably going to be a bit different then theirs.
Why don't you keep the front deck and just add to it?
Then all you have to worry about is the one seat and braces that would replace that.
Their boat may be a heavier gauge aluminum also.
Interesting camo color on that boat,looks like they raised the height also?
It's like Ben said with the floatation,it's only there if you get swamped,it doesn't help you float.It's there so it won't sink and give you something to hold on to,out in the water.


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## Zum (May 27, 2009)

Forgot to say....
Welcome to the site,you will like it here.


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## keppdog2 (May 27, 2009)

I do have some bracing it just does not go as high... What if I cut out my front seat, and then put in braces like they did but make them start all the way at the top? What guage aluminum should I look at using for the braces? Maybe Ill put braces on the ribs on either side of where the seat was located. Giving me a total of 2 per side.

If I use the 2x2 floor method with the strong tie anchors, how should I attach them to the front of the boat? I cant really screw thru the existing deck because the sheet metal is so thin I dont think it will bit very hard even with self tappers.

Or would I be better off constructing a new wall across the boat out of aluminum angle, and rivit it inot the sides of the boat, and then framing with 2x2's to the front? Ill do some sketches tonight of my ideas and post them tomorrow...


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## sparkbr (May 27, 2009)

If you have access to a sheet metal break, I'd bend up some braces out of .063" aluminum.


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## Cheeseball (May 27, 2009)

In my opinion, if you take out the foam you had better replace it somewhere else in the boat. Consider the example boat you've shown. One good wave over the gunnels and it's swamped and then it sits lower in the water. Another wave-not even a big one-and that baby will be on the bottom in a heart beat. Especially, if you have a motor on the back and batteries and such...


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## russ010 (May 27, 2009)

I took out the foam in my 1236... and I had water up to the middle of the decks just from fishing in the rain... didn't sink any. The foam comes into play if the boat capsizes or in other words, flips over... it keeps it floating - so it helps it float if it's upside down, not so much as right side up.


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## Zum (May 27, 2009)

I'm not sure but I don't think you have seen this page yet.
I havn't looked at any in a long time but here is one that I noticed using aluminum.
https://tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3811
Theres plenty more there some with wood some with aluminum.
Aluminum more expensive but won't absorb water,last longer and is lighter.
Need rivet gun or weld.
Wood cheaper,may be easier to work with,more forgiveing but more maintenance.Stainless screws,water proofing.
NO PRESSURE TREATED WOOD.
Anyways have a look at some of them mods,yours is do-able.
Taking the seat out and putting higher braces on either side just might be the trick and I know that little front deck doesn't have to come out,just add to it.A plus might be that you won't have to take the floatation out the front little deck...if there is any there.


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## Zum (May 27, 2009)

Sorry heres the page I was looking for.
https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3156


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## ober51 (May 27, 2009)

If you're going to take out the seats, just put a lot of bracing, that's all. In the one seat I plan on removing, I am just going to take a grinder to it - not even drill it out. 

At first glance it looks like Nike guy is holding a beverage? But upon closer inspection, might be the garbage from lunch.


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## Cheeseball (May 27, 2009)

russ010 said:


> The foam comes into play if the boat capsizes or in other words, flips over... it keeps it floating - so it helps it float if it's upside down, not so much as right side up.



I have to respectfully disagree with you on this point russ. Buoyancy is buoyancy regardless of whether the boat is flipped over or not. You can take all the foam out of a boat and it will float because of water displacement. But add some water inside the boat or a battery or motor and you decrease the effectiveness of the water displacement of the boat. In short, once the boat weighs more than the water it displaces it will sink. Foam is positively buoyant and won't readily soak up water and become negatively buoyant. So, boat manufacturers add enough foam so that if your boat gets completely swamped it will still float (up to the weight limit that is posted on your capacity tag). The more foam you take out the less of a weight capacity you safely have. 

Think of it like this... take a block of styrofoam and tape a chunk of aluminum to it. Throw it in the water it floats. Now take a chunk of foam out of it. It still floats but maybe not as high in the water. Keep taking off chunks and the block will eventually sink.

If you would've made a mark on the outside of your boat at the waterline before the rain started. I guarantee you that you would have noticed that your boat was sitting lower in the water after taking on that much water.


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## russ010 (May 27, 2009)

Cheeseball said:


> If you would've made a mark on the outside of your boat at the waterline before the rain started. I guarantee you that you would have noticed that your boat was sitting lower in the water after taking on that much water.



I'm not totally disagreeing with you - so don't take any of this the wrong way because I'm not meaning for it to. But I actually did have my waterline marked on that boat - and at half full of water it was sitting an inch lower. And that's with 4 - 29 series batteries, 3 trolling motors, and a 25 gal livewell half full, and all my gear and decking. Needless to say, I had close to 700lbs in just me and gear - way over what the boat was rated for at 450lbs.


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## Cheeseball (May 28, 2009)

russ010 said:


> I'm not totally disagreeing with you - so don't take any of this the wrong way because I'm not meaning for it to. But I actually did have my waterline marked on that boat - and at half full of water it was sitting an inch lower. And that's with 4 - 29 series batteries, 3 trolling motors, and a 25 gal livewell half full, and all my gear and decking. Needless to say, I had close to 700lbs in just me and gear - way over what the boat was rated for at 450lbs.



I understand what your saying and I'm not saying overloading your boat or not having enough foam will automatically sink it. But, since you have removed the foam from your center seat your boat is no long rated at 450lbs. You have removed about a third of your foam, so you've removed about a third of your capacity. So, now your boat would probably be rated at about a 300lb. capacity. That means that if your boat gets completely swamped with water you can still have 300lbs. in it and it will still float at the top of the water. Not on top of the water, but it will float enough that it will not sink to the bottom. If you fish small ponds and lakes I'm sure your setup will be fine. I just wouldn't go out in any kind of wave chop on a windy day.

Don't worry about me taking anything wrong... It's all good. :wink: I was once in a situation that makes me a strong advocate for flotation foam. A friend of mine and I were fishing the Susquehana below the Conowingo dam. We were casting shiners and minis for cats. It was early in the spring when the Strippers are running and my buddy hooked one, a big one. In all the midst of all the action we missed hearing the horn up at the dam about a mile up stream. They had opened the floodgates and we were anchored. The river was rising and water started pouring over the gunnels and the anchor was jammed. By the time I fumbled out my knife and cut the line we were completely swamped. If it were not for the foam in the seats we would have lost everything: rods, tackle, motor, battery...etc. Needless to say, it was an extremely hair raising experience.


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## keppdog2 (May 28, 2009)

holy crap....I live in Mechanicsburg PA....thats crazy about the damn....I think I have some ways to keep the foam....does anyone know of any foam that I could lay on the floor that will not suck up water? Maybe If I wrap the foam in plastic and then put those horse mats on top of it....Wonder if that will work? 

Anyone with any ideas on this?


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## russ010 (May 28, 2009)

a lot of guys on here have used the foam that they use in houses... you can find it at Home Depot or Lowes and it ranges in size from 1/4" to 1" thick. I think they have plastic covering them, but the edges are exposed. I've seen guys just put them under their decks front to back.

check out the mod section and look for a 1236 Lowe boat... can't remember the guys name, but I know there is a link. I'll look and post it back

https://tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3994


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## keppdog2 (May 28, 2009)

This is what I want to do for the rear. Leave the seat, and build over it. Ther rear portion will have a piano hinge across the entire piece for access to the gas tank, battery, etc...I dont think I will mount the switches in this location though...


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## CarlF (May 28, 2009)

> I took out the foam in my 1236... and I had water up to the middle of the decks just from fishing in the rain... didn't sink any. The foam comes into play if the boat capsizes or in other words, flips over... it keeps it floating - so it helps it float if it's upside down, not so much as right side up.



Sorry but this is completely wrong: Foam is to provide level floatation (the boat still floats and does not sink) when swamped. 
With the required amount of level floatation built in, under test conditions, the boat will float level with the water surface when loaded to posted capacity and full of water. 
Without that amount of foam, or if the boat is already overloaded, the boat sinks when filled with water.
It has nothing to do with capsizing.

if you take out most of the foam, you will incur liability if there is an accident, Your insurance may not cover you and victims can sue you/probably win. 

As far as removing the seats, since the braces only go 1/4 the way up the gunwales, you will need to add some serious bracing if you take out boat the front & middle seats. If you are willing to invest in the aluminum & rivets to build & put in an adequate level of braces, go for it.


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## keppdog2 (May 28, 2009)

i plan on taking out the front bench, and leaving the rear...my boat only has two benches....I also plan to put the foam insulation in the floor and cover it with hrose mats to offset the amount of foam that I took out...

Where can I get sheets of aluminum that I see guys using on here? How much does it cost, and what thickness should I be looking for? I ned it to make the braces, and for the rear deck....Im going to try to avoid wood if I can afford it...


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## sparkbr (May 28, 2009)

keppdog2 said:


> Where can I get sheets of aluminum that I see guys using on here? How much does it cost, and what thickness should I be looking for? I ned it to make the braces, and for the rear deck....Im going to try to avoid wood if I can afford it...




https://walden.saf.com/safcustomerweb/orderorigin/orderorigin.aspx

I use these guys for most of my smaller orders prices are a bit high, but if you buy over 100lbs, shipping is free


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## Cheeseball (May 28, 2009)

keppdog2 said:


> holy crap....I live in Mechanicsburg PA....



Ah... then you probably have fished the Susquehana before? I've fished up around where you are as well. It can be a pretty tricky river to navigate in places.


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## keppdog2 (May 28, 2009)

just a question...for areas that you would like to fill with foam but cant gets sheets of it installed...would that "great stuff" foam in a can work for flotation foam???


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## russ010 (May 28, 2009)

keppdog2 said:


> just a question...for areas that you would like to fill with foam but cant gets sheets of it installed...would that "great stuff" foam in a can work for flotation foam???



it might, but man that stuff is a mess. If you put it in then decide to do different mods later, you're pretty much screwed. Just don't worry about those places. As long as you have foam in there you're ok. 

Are you going to put a motor on it? I don't remember and I haven't looked through your thread in a while


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## keppdog2 (May 28, 2009)

yeah I have a 10 horse motor for it...and a 40lb trolling motor....


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## russ010 (May 28, 2009)

I think you'll be just fine man seriously... I would really steer clear of great stuff though...

It would take a lot of cans and that stuff is not the cheapest in the world.

They do make an expanding foam that you pour in... I just saw it in another post on this site. I think it might have been https://www.jgreer.com - but that could be wrong, I'm going from memory.


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## Zum (May 28, 2009)

Have you read this post.
https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8679
Theres some information on 4X8 foam sheets.
I have know idea on weather the information is correct but it seems sound.
I've also read somewhere that the expanding foam may not be compatable with aluminum usless there is a barrier(like in a plastic bag)I'll see if I can find that info again later.


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