# 1975 25hp Johnson 25R75B jumping out of gear.



## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 12, 2012)

Took the boat out for the 1st time this year with my "new" motor. Started up just fine, put it in forward, and off I went. Made it about 50 feet and the motor "kicked" and revved up. I realized then that it had kicked out of gear. So I put it in gear and took off again...made it about 20 feet and it did it again. It will go just fine at idle, but when I give it some throttle it will do a little kick and rev up.

I'm assuming it's in the lower unit...probably the clutch dog and forward gear?

Here is a video I took, sorry for the sound/quality all I had was my cell phone.

https://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/d_rednour05/?action=view&current=IMG_0328.mp4


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## Johny25 (Mar 12, 2012)

I think you have an adjustment on your cam actuator that may help the problem your having?


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## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 12, 2012)

Does it make a difference that the actual shift lever does not kick back?

It stays in the forward position and after it "kicks" I can apply a small amount of pressure and it will engage again.

I tried holding the shifter forward and it still did it.


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## Pappy (Mar 12, 2012)

You will have to go into the gearcase and repair. The clutch dog and forward gear have to be replaced at this point in most cases. On most models, in order to get the forward gear the pinion must be ordered as well as they come in a set. Yours may be different. There are some who will simply turn the clutch dog around and put the assembly back together. This buys you some time only. 
The adjustment spoken of in the other post is a valid one when new parts have been installed. When the gear lever is in it's foreward gear detent you should feel the clutch dog bottoming out in the logs of the forward gear and creating additional drag when the propshaft is rotated back and forth by hand. If this is not felt you can adjust the shift assembly until the additional drag is felt and then lock it down. 
I have been re-cutting the worn drive lugs successfully and adding an additional undercut of around 4-5 degrees. This effectively locks the dogs in place and is more effective as load increases. You are going through the case hardening but the undercut more than makes up for this. Cheap to do in comparison to gear and dog costs. You may be able to get a machinist in your area to do this for you.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 12, 2012)

So by doing a little research, the clutch dog and forward gear will run me in the ball park of $250?

Would I be better off trying to find a replacement lower unit?


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## crazymanme2 (Mar 12, 2012)

> I have been re-cutting the worn drive lugs successfully and adding an additional undercut of around 4-5 degrees. This effectively locks the dogs in place and is more effective as load increases. You are going through the case hardening but the undercut more than makes up for this. Cheap to do in comparison to gear and dog costs. You may be able to get a machinist in your area to do this for you.



I have done this with a different twist.Sine I tig weld I just weld up the bad part & file it down.Good as new.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 12, 2012)

So for arguments sake, could I reverse everything just to keep me going until I get new gears or a diff lower unit?


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## shawnfish (Mar 12, 2012)

baseball_guy_99 said:


> So for arguments sake, could I reverse everything just to keep me going until I get new gears or a diff lower unit?



if you look for a replacement part remember that in most cases it does not have to be from a 79 like yours. evinrude/johnson are the same motors and there should be a few years leway on what parts will match. cross reference the part numbers and you will be in good shape. i cant remember the site but if you pm me there is a great place in florida that has good used parts for a fraction of the cost of new parts....


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## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 12, 2012)

Thanks for the info. My research shows me that the parts from a 71 through 76 will also work on my motor. I was in contact with a marine salvage yard a couple hours away from me and the guy said he has a good use lower unit. All that it's missing is the driveshaft. Which mine is in good condition so I can just use it. He said he would take $80 for it.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 13, 2012)

Well I pulled the lower unit completely apart this morning. Everything looked fine, but the gears all showed signs of wear. So I went ahead and ordered the replacement lower unit. 

The place is only a couple of hours away so hopefully I'll get it tomorrow or Thursday.

I can't believe how easy and simple these motors are. I pulled the whole lower unit apart, cleaned it, and put back together in less than an hour.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Mar 14, 2012)

Well I got the lower unit in today. Extremely fast shipping (he was only 2 hours from me).

Pulled the water pump and drive shaft off my old one and put it on the new one. It bolted right onto the motor just like he said it would. I then went to put the prop back on...well apparently the prop/nut combo that I had on the old LU won't work on this one. So I called up Josh (joshswatercraftrepair.com) and talked to him about it. Well it all boiled down to him sending me a cone for the prop which is originally what it was supposed to have.

So I'll put out a pitch for him...excellent guy and excellent service.

Josh's Auto & Watercraft
5201 Leach RD
Rochester, IL 62563
Fax: (217) 498-2083
Shop Phone: (217) 553-5157

Here is the new LU installed (i know its a different color but as of right now all i care about is it works!)


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 6, 2012)

So long story short. The new lower unit prop shaft was too short. So I basically gutted the new
Lower unit that I bought. I took all the gears and everything out of that one and put it into mine. Took it back out to the lake today took off just fine but when I got to about three-quarter throttle it jumped out of gear again. 

The only thing I didn't change was the shift fork, shift rod, and pinion gear.

One thing I did notice that when I shift from forward to neutral it doesn't always go right into neutral. I have to jiggle it a little. 

Any thoughts?


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## Pappy (Apr 6, 2012)

If you would go back up to my earlier post you would see that the answer is already there. You needed to adjust to make sure the unit is going all the way into forward and that probably didn't happen.
But - let me throw you a get out of jail free card on this one and tell you that my statement is based on the assumption that the parts you purchased are capable of holding themselved in gear to begin with! If not then it would not matter whether you made the adjustment or not.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 6, 2012)

I went and re-read your post. I'm not sure what you mean by adjusting. Could you elaborate for me?


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 6, 2012)

Pappy, are you talking about loosening the screws on the shift lever and adjusting the shift lever?


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## Canoeman (Apr 7, 2012)

you replace the clutch dog? 

I had a late 70s johnny 25 that did exactly as you described..and that was the culprit. 

Not enough adjusting in the world to fix a worn clutch dog..


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## shawnfish (Apr 7, 2012)

baseball_guy_99 said:


> Pappy, are you talking about loosening the screws on the shift lever and adjusting the shift lever?



i didnt read his post but would have to beleive thats what he meant. there should be 2 screws, make sure when you adjust it that it will go into forward and reverse fully. meaning theres a peice that has a rounded notch that the shifter sits in for forward and reverse, if it does not fully engage in both gears it will not perform like its suppose to....


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 7, 2012)

I replaced the clutch dog with another used one that did look better than the one I took out.

I'll try the adjustment and if that doesn't work I guess I'll buck up and buy a new clutch dog and forward gear.


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## Pappy (Apr 8, 2012)

Yes that is what I meant. Play with the adjustment while rotating the prop back and forth until you feel the additional drag induced by the clutchdog fully bottoming out into the forward gear dogs. Make an adjustment and then keep one hand on the shift lever while rotating the prop back and forth and lightly force the shift handle farther forward and you should feel a difference between fully bottomed and not. Unfortunately there is no better way to explain this other than the common sense feel/experience of just doing it! The part of the shaft that goes into the exhaust housing will be adjusted a little toward the rear when making this adjustment. That way, when rotated into forwarded that shaft will be travelling farther vertically and forcing the gearcase farther into forward gear. Try it until your hands and fingers tell you what I am talking about. When you finish your adjustment the shift handle should be in the detent and the additional drag should be lightly felt with no forcing of the handle.


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## shawnfish (Apr 8, 2012)

Pappy said:


> Yes that is what I meant. Play with the adjustment while rotating the prop back and forth until you feel the additional drag induced by the clutchdog fully bottoming out into the forward gear dogs. Make an adjustment and then keep one hand on the shift lever while rotating the prop back and forth and lightly force the shift handle farther forward and you should feel a difference between fully bottomed and not. Unfortunately there is no better way to explain this other than the common sense feel/experience of just doing it! The part of the shaft that goes into the exhaust housing will be adjusted a little toward the rear when making this adjustment. That way, when rotated into forwarded that shaft will be travelling farther vertically and forcing the gearcase farther into forward gear. Try it until your hands and fingers tell you what I am talking about. When you finish your adjustment the shift handle should be in the detent and the additional drag should be lightly felt with no forcing of the handle.




Well worded! thats what i meant also.....buy a service manual for your motor, it is worth every penny!


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 8, 2012)

Ok I will give it a go tomorrow when I get home. Thanks for all your help guys.


Happy Easter!!!


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 9, 2012)

Ok I got out to look at the motor this morning.

When I first looked at the shift lever, all i could see was a grease fitting and a lot of grease! After some cleaning and investigating, sure enough, there WAS a screw underneath all that grease. I'm pretty sure all that was holding that screw in was the grease because it was loose!

I loosened up the other screw, did a little adjustment and I'm pretty sure that was the fix. Now I can easily shift through all the gears and it properly engages and dis-engages.

I'm waiting on the o-ring for the prop shaft to come in so I can put some oil back in the gear case and take it out to the lake.


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## txneal (Apr 9, 2012)

Hope you got it fixed! I have the same motor doing much the same thing. I think its either a worn clutch dog or perhaps a spun prop hub. I've had bad luck with trying to find a decent used lower unit. I've bought 3 on eBay and all 3 of them had issues that weren't disclosed in the item description. Just bought a new prop and am in the process of getting to the bottom of this problem. You might want to consider a new prop if you continue to have problems. I figured I can't go wrong with having a spare prop, so it was worth it to me just to buy one whether that fixes it or not.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 10, 2012)

Ok so I took the boat out to the lake today. I think I'm getting closer to getting it fixed.

I took off and it still popped out of gear, but I reached back and held onto the shift lever and ran all the way across the lake without it popping out of gear. But as soon as I let go of the handle, it pops out. 

So do you guys think it needs a tad more adjustment?


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 10, 2012)

I talked to an outboard mechanic today and he said to replace the clutch dog and the forward gear. He said if you can keep pressure on the lever and it stays in gear then the dog and gear is the culprit.

BTW I GPSed myself at 24mph with throttle left! I bet I can get close to thirty.


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## Canoeman (Apr 10, 2012)

baseball_guy_99 said:


> I talked to an outboard mechanic today and he said to replace the clutch dog and the forward gear. He said if you can keep pressure on the lever and it stays in gear then the dog and gear is the culprit.



Yup.. not enough adjustments in the world will fix a worn part..


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 10, 2012)

Well I pulled the trigger on a new clutch dog and new forward gear...$170 later I hope that fixes it.

Parts are supposed to come in this weekend. Don't know I'll get to test them out because I start my new job Monday.


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## Pappy (Apr 11, 2012)

Once they start jumping out of gear it is luck of the draw whether or not you can adjust them to stay in. Make sure you adjust the new set. Did you ever feel what I described in the adjustment procedure?


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 11, 2012)

Pappy, I don't think I did. 

I put the lever to forward position, loosened the 2 bolts, pulled out a little on the lever and pushed it a little towards neutral. I then tightened the bolts back down. I was turning the prop back and forth but I felt no difference.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 11, 2012)

I also having trouble finding a part on the parts schematic. If anyone wants to pm me their number or email addy I can send a pic of the piece.


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## Pappy (Apr 11, 2012)

If you didn't feel the additional drag of the clutch dog bottoming out then you did not adjust it far enough. "Over" adjust it if you need to in order to feel what I am talking about or when it is in gear pull the shift handle even farther in order to feel it. You will get that feel I was talking about and then you can make a proper adjustment.


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## Canoeman (Apr 16, 2012)

So you get that new clutch dog in?


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 18, 2012)

The new clutch dog and forward hear came in on Saturday. I've been too busy with work and turkey hunting that I have not had a chance to put them in yet. Hopefully I'll be able to get them in this weekend and give the boat a test run some time next week.


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 23, 2012)

Well i got around to tearing the gear case apart again to replace the forward gear and clutch dog. I started to put everything back together and realized I have lost the little pin that goes into the front of the gear that goes down into the gear case head assembly so I had to order a new one. Hopefully it will come in on Thursday so I can put it back together and give the motor a try.

Here is a picture of the new clutch dog next to the old one...new one on the left, old one on the right



Here is one of the forward gears...old one on the left and new one on the right


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## Canoeman (Apr 24, 2012)

Forward running gear looks to be ok from the angle of the picture.. that new clutch dog will remedy your problem.


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## xbacksideslider (Apr 24, 2012)

Got it fixed now? I've got a '79 Johnson 25, stays in gear so far, maybe I ought to adjust it?


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 25, 2012)

Nope I'm still waiting on that little pin to come in.

Canoe man, the edges are kind of chewed up on the forward gear so I figured I might as well replace it.


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## Canoeman (Apr 25, 2012)

baseball_guy_99 said:


> Canoe man, the edges are kind of chewed up on the forward gear so I figured I might as well replace it.



Yea.. i saw that after i posted, the part where the dog engages is a bit worn also. Might as well start new.

stupid one little part keeps you off the water man..


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 27, 2012)

Ok i got that little pin in the mail this afternoon. I put the lower unit all back together.

Pappy I still am unsure of how you are talking about adjusting the shift linkage. So what I figured out was that if I lined up the clutch dog and the rear gear lobes, loosened the two screws, and applied slight pressure to the shift lever towards reverse, that the clutch dog felt to be more snug/tight against the front gear. Is this what you were talking about Pappy?

I took a short video of my "wiggling" the shift lever. It seems to me that there is some excessive play in it but wanted an expert opinion.

https://s2.photobucket.com/albums/y32/d_rednour05/?action=view&current=IMG_0432.mp4


Will hopefully be able to get the boat out next Thursday (new job has been keeping me really busy)


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## baseball_guy_99 (Apr 30, 2012)

So far I'm still a go to head out Thursday to test the motor. As long as the weather holds out.

What happened to Pappy? Haven't seen ya post in a few days


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## baseball_guy_99 (May 2, 2012)

An input on if I adjusted the shift lever correctly?


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## baseball_guy_99 (May 3, 2012)

I finally did something right! Ran the motor all morning and into the afternoon and it didn't kick out of gear once! Top speed was 22 but I didn't quite crack it all the way open.


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## Canoeman (May 4, 2012)

baseball_guy_99 said:


> I finally did something right! Ran the motor all morning and into the afternoon and it didn't kick out of gear once! Top speed was 22 but I didn't quite crack it all the way open.




good news man!!


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## Earlo (Sep 9, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=259681#p259681 said:


> baseball_guy_99 » 27 Apr 2012, 20:21[/url]"]
> 
> Pappy I still am unsure of how you are talking about adjusting the shift linkage. So what I figured out was that if I lined up the clutch dog and the rear gear lobes, loosened the two screws, and applied slight pressure to the shift lever towards reverse, that the clutch dog felt to be more snug/tight against the front gear. Is this what you were talking about Pappy?



I realize this thread was from a while back, but I was reading through it to get help for a '73 20 hp that I thought was going out of gear. Turned out to be a bad prop hub. However, a parts guy in Iowa (Dan Gano, ganotech.com) sent me a pdf of the adjustment pappy was describing. I had to do a seal kit on my lower unit, the adjustment took five minutes and made a huge difference.


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## shawnfish (Sep 11, 2013)

that dog and forward gear looked fine to me... may have just needed proper adjustment


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