# 1986 Johnson 25hp "Slips out of gear at high rpm"



## wmk0002 (Aug 8, 2018)

The "slips out of gear at high rpms" line is straight from a Craigslist ad on the subject motor. I'm interested in upgrading my 15 Johnson to a 25, which is the hp limit on my two closest lakes, and this one caught my attention. Literally having no more details, I'm assuming this would most likely be caused by 1) incorrectly adjusted shift rod/lever 2) spun hub or 3) worn clutch dog. First two would be easy fixes and I'm willing to split the gear case despite never having attempted that feat on an outboard before. I'm curious if I'm forgetting anything else that could likely cause this issue? Would like to know so I can research before going to inspect it in person. I plan to call and get additional details later this evening.


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## wmk0002 (Aug 8, 2018)

Did have a text from the seller I missed saying that it disengages at about half throttle and slips but catches back after reducing rpms. Then he says that it makes a clunking noise that sounds like the motor is missing. The disengaging and re-engaging sounds like a spun prob hub to me. But I have had it happen to me before and never had any kind of clunking noise to go along with it. I also had to reduce rpms all the way down to idle to get the hub to catch again.


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## DaleH (Aug 8, 2018)

Worn clutch dog ...


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## wmk0002 (Aug 8, 2018)

DaleH said:


> Worn clutch dog ...



Does the shift lever attaching to the clutch dog in the gearcase typically need to be replaced with it? Or is a clutch dog repair usually a matter of replacing just it with new gearcase seals? Is there anything that can be read into having a worn out clutch dog...is it simply a sign of a lot of motor hours, frequent shifts, misadjusted shifter, etc?


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## DaleH (Aug 8, 2018)

To me there’s too many variables as to what it could be - or cost to repair - to even consider pursuing it further, sorry.

Unless one knows 99% what it is ... and not what it could be, time/trouble/experience has taught me to walk away. 

I just walked away from a possible boat buy myself this week, even though I love the hull & layout! But it had a couple electrical issues, where IF the seller had let me look into it further, I could have determined if it was a 5-minute fix vs. a 5-hour repair. Meaning the few ‘small’ issues could have been a symptom of a really ‘BIG’ systemic issue throughout the entire boat. 

_... had to walk away!_ That the Seller insisted that I buy it ‘as is’ and that he wouldn’t budge on the asking price was ... well, I won’t use those words here that I was thinking.


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## nccatfisher (Aug 8, 2018)

And most likely will require a forward gear also. No one ever stops soon as this happens and repairs this soon as it shows up. They run it is while and that slamming and clunking takes it's toll on the forward gear.


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## wmk0002 (Aug 9, 2018)

nccatfisher said:


> And most likely will require a forward gear also. No one ever stops soon as this happens and repairs this soon as it shows up. They run it is while and that slamming and clunking takes it's toll on the forward gear.



That's what I would fear. Clutch dog and seals together are maybe $100 but the forward gear alone is $250...


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## wmk0002 (Aug 9, 2018)

DaleH said:


> To me there’s too many variables as to what it could be - or cost to repair - to even consider pursuing it further, sorry.
> 
> Unless one knows 99% what it is ... and not what it could be, time/trouble/experience has taught me to walk away.
> 
> ...



Yes, I know what you mean. Usually when I buy a project outboard I ask myself what could I part this thing out for if it needs to much money thrown at it to fix. And usually the lower unit is good which is some money to bank on right off the bat to go along with the carb.


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## Pappy (Aug 9, 2018)

To shed a bit more light on this......
The shift fork is what you were referring to as the lever. That has two points of contact with the clutch dog. They can be worn as well and be in need of replacement.
Usually when a forward gear is required a pinion is included. You can always look at this and see if this holds true for your application. This is done to insure a proper wear pattern as the gears break in. 
Your parts therefore would include a complete seal kit, possible shift cradle and fork, forward gear and pinion if required and of course labor. 
Wear should be looked at up top at the shift lever as well. May need bushings. This will help insure a full shift travel and may have been the reason for the failure. 
After the gearcase repair is made then a proper shift adjustment at the lever should be done so you do not have a repeat failure.


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## wmk0002 (Aug 13, 2018)

Thanks guys. Definitely a risk I don't want to hop into.


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## Pappy (Aug 13, 2018)

This stuff is pretty easy to do or get done. Minimal labor if the gearcase is the split or clamshell design.
Where the issues come up is that most folks will only replace the parts that failed and not address the cause of failure which is outlined above.


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## wmk0002 (Aug 13, 2018)

Pappy said:


> This stuff is pretty easy to do or get done. Minimal labor if the gearcase is the split or clamshell design.
> Where the issues come up is that most folks will only replace the parts that failed and not address the cause of failure which is outlined above.



I would actually love to tackle it sometime. It would just have to be on a cheaper motor. 

But if/when I get around to doing it, I will do my best to follow your advice above!


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## tinskin (Sep 3, 2018)

The 86 didn't have the clam shell case anymore. And the shift forks are nla. More important where are the 25hp lakes down there, the ones I know about are 10hp max. I do remember seeing a big ole motorwith 9.9 decals on cl awhile back.


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## wmk0002 (Sep 3, 2018)

tinskin said:


> The 86 didn't have the clam shell case anymore. And the shift forks are nla. More important where are the 25hp lakes down there, the ones I know about are 10hp max. I do remember seeing a big ole motorwith 9.9 decals on cl awhile back.



I'm in Cullman, AL. They opened a local recently created lake, Duck River Reservoir, to the public maybe a month back and they placed a 25hp limit on it. At the same time they changed the limit from 10hp to 25hp on Lake Catoma. Those are the two near me, although there are a lot of other restricted ones near Moulton and down towards Birmingham which are either 10hp or electric only.


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## tinskin (Sep 3, 2018)

That's good to hear about Catoma, now I can stop looking for that 9.9 cowl for my 15. I may still need it for Brushy though.


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## wmk0002 (Sep 4, 2018)

tinskin said:


> That's good to hear about Catoma, now I can stop looking for that 9.9 cowl for my 15. I may still need it for Brushy though.



What's Brushy? And what motor do you need a 9.9 cowl for? I have a 70s - 80s Johnson 15hp cowl from a parts motor I'd sell or trade.


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## tinskin (Sep 4, 2018)

Brushy lake is in Bankhead. It has a 10hp limit.


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## MrGiggles (Sep 4, 2018)

There's probably quite a bit of metal debris in the gear case, all of the bearings and gears will be compromised, best off buying a whole used lower unit IMO. Those thru-hub exhaust units are not easy to take apart either, usually requiring special tools.

The price needs to reflect what a new lower is going to cost, including your labor, and a little extra for the risk involved, if you can get it for that, go for it.

The lower unit on my 83 25hp Johnson spilled it's guts last spring, 200 bucks for a used lower and it was back in business in less than an hour.


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## wmk0002 (Sep 4, 2018)

MrGiggles said:


> There's probably quite a bit of metal debris in the gear case, all of the bearings and gears will be compromised, best off buying a whole used lower unit IMO. Those thru-hub exhaust units are not easy to take apart either, usually requiring special tools.
> 
> The price needs to reflect what a new lower is going to cost, including your labor, and a little extra for the risk involved, if you can get it for that, go for it.
> 
> The lower unit on my 83 25hp Johnson spilled it's guts last spring, 200 bucks for a used lower and it was back in business in less than an hour.



Thanks for the info. I've since passed on this motor though. I may could have offered a lot less and gotten it but I think I'm going to hold off and see if I can save up enough for a new or at least newer model 25hp 4 stroke in a reasonable amount of time. I'll still pull the trigger on an old 2 stroke but the price has to be a great deal and something I can resell easy when the time comes.


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## durco (Feb 28, 2019)

wmk0002 said:


> I'm interested in upgrading my 15 Johnson to a 25


Is this a 1956 Johnson 15? Otherwise, how would a person upgrade a "9.9-15 Family" motor to a 25hp motor?
I'm sure I'm missing something here. Please forgive...….


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