# Problems with 82 Johnson 15 HP (miaden voyage faliure...)



## CMOS (Sep 7, 2015)

Howdy All,

I've been working on this motor for a few months and finally got her fired up in the driveway last weekend. This weekend (Labor Day) was _supposed _to be its maiden voyage. Lady Luck was not having any of that however. We never got away from the dock. Hoping for some help with a few things I will need to to.

Problem #1 at the boat ramp: When priming the bulb I saw fuel pouring out of the rear part of the lower cowling (float issue I'm betting). I did do a full carb kit in this carb myself, so the leaking fuel was a surprise.

Problem #2: I was able to get it started but the idle never did get up to an RPM that was sustainable without me having to slightly advance the throttle. Engine finally died. Could not get it to restart again. However, a secondary and more pressing issue is that I'm having problems with the recoil starter in that there is a red colored "arm" that keeps engaging the starter gear that stops the pull cord from coming out. I now have a sprained wrist due to this. When I try to pull the cord (yes, in NEUTRAL) the cord will come out maybe 1/4 or 1/3 of the way then dead STOP and lock. It's the red arm thingy (darned if I could find what this part is called on Boats.net or my service manual.) I also need to replace the recoil spring as the cord does not retract all the way. So - how do I 1) replace the recoil spring and how do I keep that red arm thingy from engaging the starter gear? See attached pic.

I tried to restart the motor in the driveway after the failure at the lake. I could not reproduce the leaking fuel at this time, however I still plan to pull and check the carb after I get the starter issue resolved.

Thanks for any guidance on this.

CMOS


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## kofkorn (Sep 7, 2015)

That little red arm is a lockout to prevent you from starting the motor in gear. If you look closely, you'll see a small bump on the timing plate that turns with the throttle. If the lockout is engaging, reduce the throttle a bit. 

That should stop the lockout from engaging. 

The recoil should be easy to fix. Pull the rope out as far as you can. Then open a pair of pliers and stick them under the sprocket that engages the flywheel. Now you should be able to release the pull cord without it rewinding. Now remove the starter handle, (may need to cut the rope to remove it). Wrap the rope around the pulley one or two more turns. Feed the rope back through the cowling and retie it to the handle. Should rewind nicely now.

Good luck!


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## Pappy (Sep 8, 2015)

At this point you are going to need to invest in a manual.
There is a specific length of starter cord for the starter. There is a specific way to do the recoil spring as well. 
As far as the idle RPM goes, once again the manual can be used to teach you how to properly sync and link that engine. "Linkage set-up"
That engine was never one to have too many RPMs at idle even when properly set up but it has plenty to give a good warm up.


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## cajuncook1 (Sep 8, 2015)

This YouTube video should help you along with the starter repair.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmCm4PD_E9Y


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## CMOS (Sep 8, 2015)

Pappy - I have the manuals already. Is the adjustment you mentioned in the Carb Overhaul section.

Another note: when I had this motor running in the driveway a week ago it ran just fine. Had a good rock-solid stable idle. I remembered last night that when I tried to get it running this past Sunday I forgot to open the fuel tank vent knob. Not sure if this would have the idle implications I saw or not.

I'll start to work on the recoil starter as soon as I get some parts. *Question: is the "Rewind Starter Spring" (0323653) the only thing I should replace when i tear it apart?
*

CAJUN: looks like a great video. Thank you.


Thanks for any help.

CMOS


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## CMOS (Sep 9, 2015)

k,

I want to be able to advance the throttle, if needed, when starting in neutral. So what do I need to do to keep that lockout arm from engaging the recoil gears?

CMOS





kofkorn said:


> That little red arm is a lockout to prevent you from starting the motor in gear. If you look closely, you'll see a small bump on the timing plate that turns with the throttle. *If the lockout is engaging, reduce the throttle a bit.*
> 
> That should stop the lockout from engaging.
> 
> ...


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## kofkorn (Sep 9, 2015)

The lockout arm is directly engaged by the timing plate. The timing plate is what increases the initial throttle (until the butterfly starts opening). There really isn't any adjustment. It doesn't prevent you from increasing the throttle when it's started, but just prevents starting it with the timing advanced too far.

Not recommended, but you could shorten the small arm that rides on the timing plate. The only other option is to remove the lockout arm completely. Just make sure that you don't try to accidentally start the motor in gear with the throttle elevated.

Good luck!


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## cajuncook1 (Sep 9, 2015)

I would not alter the safety mechanism, it is there for a reason. Once you have your manual starter apart, make sure all the parts are there. You never know what the previous owner has done, so don't assume anything. I may have the breakdown procedure for the starter.

The video I posted does a pretty good job of explaining.


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## kofkorn (Sep 9, 2015)

One other item that I just noticed: It looks like the spring to keep the lockout in the correct position is either broken or mis-positioned. 

There should be one arm on the back side of the aluminum "C". If that spring isn't positioned properly, the lockout will simply flop around, sometimes causing it to inadvertently engage.

The end of the spring should have a little loop on it. Make sure the loop rests on the outside of the "C"


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## Pappy (Sep 9, 2015)

In the manual look for synchronization and linkage adjustments, otherwise known as sync and link. Usually section 2 in an OEM manual.
Did they put it in the same section as the carb and fuel system? NO....that would have made way too much sense! 
Read and absorb this sentence -> Once you have done the sync and link PROPERLY you should have plenty of neutral RPM at idle to play with. 
Word to the wise. When you do the recoil starter for the first time.....wear safety glasses and a pair of work gloves just to be safe. 
Those springs can come out of there like an Anaconda on steroids looking for something to bite.


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## CMOS (Sep 9, 2015)

Great info guys. Thanks.

BTW - where can I find that lockout assembly on the on-line parts diagrams (Boats.net, etc.)? 

I looked through every section and couldn't find it. Might need some parts for that assembly...

CMOS


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## kofkorn (Sep 10, 2015)

Part #13 under the Exhaust Housing group:

https://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1982&hp=15&model=J15RCNC&manufacturer=Johnson&section=Exhaust+Housing


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## cajuncook1 (Sep 10, 2015)

Kofkorn, good eye on the lock spring. I did not see that originally.

Pappy is so right about the safety when messing with the starter and spring.


Here are a couple of pictures of a 1984 Evinrude 15hp manual starter setup for reference.


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## cajuncook1 (Sep 10, 2015)

CMOS, sent you a PM.


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## CMOS (Sep 10, 2015)

Great pics Cajun.

I can now check that paw spring to see if it is in the right place and shape.

I kinda think my spring might be broken . . .

CMOS


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## CMOS (Sep 10, 2015)

Yep, pawl spring is broken. I will order some parts and hope to work on this the weekend of 9-19.

I'll keep y'all posted....

CMOS


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## CMOS (Sep 20, 2015)

Okay, I have parts now. How do I get access to the screw that holds in the red pawl? See pic:




CMOS


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## Sinkingfast (Sep 20, 2015)

CMOS said:


> Okay, I have parts now. How do I get access to the screw that holds in the red pawl? See pic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If it were me I would see if the cutout on the timing plate will line up with the screw. If not, remove cotter pin to further rotate timing plate cutout over the screw.


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## CMOS (Sep 21, 2015)

SF,

Sadly that cutout nearby does not line up. The timing plate will not rotate that far.

Which cotter pin? The small one in the foreground of the pic?

CMOS


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## kofkorn (Sep 21, 2015)

Try backing the idle screw adjustment on the side of the cowling as slow as it will go. That cutout should line up at some point.


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## Sinkingfast (Sep 21, 2015)

I had figured he would have tried that...Yea maybe if you remove the pin and lift the lever off the plate might rotate more. Mine is a 1976 and has different arrangement.


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## CMOS (Sep 22, 2015)

Sinkingfast said:


> I had figured he would have tried that...Yea maybe if you remove the pin and lift the lever off the plate might rotate more. Mine is a 1976 and has different arrangement.




I will try it this coming weekend. Thanks guys.

CMOS


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## CMOS (Sep 26, 2015)

Well I got the recoil starter off, apart, and cleaned but I was unable to put it back together - missing Spring Retainer. Whomever had this motor before me must have taken it apart and left the Retainer out. Part is ordered so I'll try next week.

The new recoil spring did come wound and bound with a couple zip ties, but not in a diameter that would allow me to just drop in in the cup. After reading my manual and LeeRoy's info it looks like I need to allow the spring to UNwind, then wind it INTO the cup with the pulley. Sound right?


CMOS


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## Pappy (Sep 26, 2015)

That would be correct.
Wear work gloves and eye protection since this is not the safest job to do on an outboard.


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## CMOS (Oct 3, 2015)

Okay guys, I have starter rebuilt and ready to install but need some pointers from y'all on the actual installation.

Since the new spring is fully wound, if I let go of the cup & pinion the darn thing will unwind. So how do I _install _the starter back on the motor without the letting go of the cup & pinion and letting the spring unwind???

I have the Service Manual but it does not address this.

CMOS


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## kofkorn (Oct 4, 2015)

Thread the rope through the front cowling and pull handle. Tie the knot to hold the handle on. It'll take a bit of work, but you should be able to mount the recoil mechanism without it unwinding. A second pair of hands may help.


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## CMOS (Oct 4, 2015)

I got it on. Just kinda figured it out. Easier to do since I have the Flywheel off. Works well.

Pulled the carb and took it apart. All jets were clear, and float level was also good. Ready for a barrel test next weekend.


CMOS


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## Pappy (Oct 4, 2015)

Next time you do one just thread a 3/8-16 wing nut or plain nut on the bottom of the bolt to hold the starter together....little easier on the parts!


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## CMOS (Oct 5, 2015)

Pappy said:


> Next time you do one just thread a 3/8-16 wing nut or plain nut on the bottom of the bolt to hold the starter together....little easier on the parts!



That's exactly what I did, based on the suggestion from LeeRoy's Ramblings. :mrgreen: 


CMOS


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## CMOS (Oct 9, 2015)

More problems.

I tried to do a driveway water muff test but after about 20 pulls without a single engine cough, the pull cord would no longer retract. So I seem to have 2 specific issues.

1. Pull cord not retracting (reminder - I just replaced the recoil spring in this thing).
2. No engine start after about 20 good pulls. Carb was pulled last weekend and was verified to be squeaky clean. 

Recoil starter is first. Need to pull it again and take a look inside. Any ideas as to what I will find?

Once that is fixed I'll have to test spark again.

[sigh]


CMOS


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## Pappy (Oct 9, 2015)

check the loop on the spring and see if you pulled it into the starter housing. If you did that is an indication that your cord is too short.
Never pull the starter cord on any engine to the end of the cord. Parts will always break when that happens. 
Secondly, if that engine does not attempt to start in 4 or 5 pulls there is something missing in the process. 
Since you had the carb apart see if, by chance, you have the black plastic choke actuator upside down. If you do the choke will not close all the way and would produce the symptoms you describe. Hint...small slot goes down.


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## CMOS (Oct 9, 2015)

Pappy, the end loop of the spring did indeed pull inside the cup. The slot in the cup where the loop hooks was slightly deformed when I installed the new spring. Guess I should have fully straightened it out.

Cup has been straightened, spring wound, and the starter is re-installed.

I will do a spark test this evening when it gets dark.

Yes, I am positive the choke knob is installed properly (and I do understand your caution on this).

Question: should I engage the choke at all on a day that is 80 degrees?

If I get a good spark test I will try to start again tomorrow, and report results. Reminder - I had this motor running in the driveway a few weeks ago. . . .

CMOS


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## Pappy (Oct 9, 2015)

A cold start for an engine usually requires choking it to get the fuel pulled into the intake, past the reeds and through the ports. By all means use the choke until the engine will run on its own. Think of it as a dry start instead of a cold (temperature-wise) start.


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## CMOS (Oct 11, 2015)

Good news and bad news.

I did find a poor ground on one of my coils - no spark. Have good spark on both now. Motor did start but dies within seconds as if starving for fuel. Tried to adjust the low speed screw on both sides of carb rebuild setiing when all of the sudden - the damn pull cord would not retract.

Yep, the end of the spring has pulled into the cup again, further damaging the slot. I think my pull cord may have been too short.  So, I need to dismantle the recoil starter again and see what's been damaged, and get a proper length of cord.

The motor starving symptom will have to wait. . . .

CMOS


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## Sinkingfast (Oct 11, 2015)

My factory manual says 71.5 inches long on the pull cord.


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## CMOS (Oct 16, 2015)

Okay, starter has been pulled. See attached pic. As you can see the slot in the bottom Cup has been damaged. 

I am concerned if I simply straighten it out, the metal will be sufficiently fatigued that the spring will pull in again. --- Thoughts? Will I need to replace the Cup?

Also some related questions:

1. _Other than the length of the pull cord being too short_, does the tension of the spring itself (after I wind it in) contribute in the problem of the spring getting pulled into the Cup? (I wound that spring pretty tight...)

2. What makes the Pinion gear lift up when the cord is pulled? I ask this because I noticed after the last time I fully assembled this and tried to start the motor, the pinion would spin but sometimes not lift up to engage the Flywheel. Some lubricant on the Pulley gear seemed to help, but not always eliminate this. Thoughts?

Please give me your feedback so I know what I may need to order as far as parts.

Thanks,
CMOS


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## kofkorn (Oct 16, 2015)

I would replace that cup. Bending the tab back may work for a short while, but it will eventually fail at the worst possible time in the future. You know how that works.

As for the pinion, I've found that lube is a good and bad thing on it. It will usually get it to work for a short while, but later when the lube starts to dry out or collect dirt, it only makes the situation worse. I've found that cleaning both the pinion and the pulley out with a good cleaner keeps it moving properly. Both parts are plastic and should slide easily if they are clean. If you're still having issues after cleaning it out, maybe a little powdered graphite would help.

What I've found is that the bottom face of the pinion and the top face of the pulley stick together when lubed. The surface tension created prevents the pinion from moving up. Usually spinning a rag under the pinion when it is lifted will remove enough of the lube to make an immediate improvement.

Good luck!


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## CMOS (Oct 20, 2015)

Parts on order and on the way.

Tell me: how tight should I wind that recoil spring? I have no way to gauge this. Last time I wound it pretty darn tight, tight as I could muster.

Thoughts?


Also with regards to the fuel pump: Several weeks ago I rebuilt the pump with a new kit. How do I test the fuel pump to see if I did it correctly?

Reminder that when the motor started last week it would run for only a few seconds, then die under circumstances that sounded like fuel starving.


CMOS


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## kofkorn (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm sure the manual has a specific number, but for me, I never wind it even close to tight. I normally will put it in place un-wound with out the handle attached, and then I give it one (Maybe two) turns and feed the rope through the front cowling. (if you spin it by hand and then engage the pinion, you can keep the mechanism from unwinding by placing a pair of pliers underneath the pinion gear. This keeps the pinion engaged to the flywheel and stops the mechanism from unwinding while you feed the rope through and tie it). 

You really only want it tight enough to keep the handle in place while the motor is running. Any more than that, then you create a chance to do the damage you're seeing. 

Good luck!


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## rusty503 (Oct 20, 2015)

I will say about the same thing. If you tightened it as much as you could when you installed the spring, that definitely caused the problem. Remember this, when you pull the cord you will be further tightening the spring. Like kofcorn stated, it only needs to be tight enough to hold the handle in place when retracted but yet tight enough to retract all of the cord when you release it.


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## CMOS (Oct 20, 2015)

rusty503 said:


> I will say about the same thing. If you tightened it as much as you could when you installed the spring, that definitely caused the problem. Remember this, *when you pull the cord you will be further tightening the spring*. Like kofcorn stated, it only needs to be tight enough to hold the handle in place when retracted but yet tight enough to retract all of the cord when you release it.




Okay, that makes sense. Now I am wondering if I damaged the spring's strength by winding it so tight - ?


CMOS


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## rusty503 (Oct 20, 2015)

I doubt it. I'm thinking if you didn't break it, it should be okay.


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## kofkorn (Oct 20, 2015)

I'm certain you didn't damage the spring. A recoil spring like you have can be wound tight with affecting it. However, you could possibly damage the plastic pulley, and the cup (as you've already seen). Also check the end of the spring that engages the pulley. Make sure it didn't deform.

For the rest of the recoil spring, as long as it is wrapped (loose or tight) there really isn't any way to damage it. if you bend it when it is loose, then it would be very difficult to repair. 

Good luck!


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## CMOS (Oct 20, 2015)

Tell me about the roll pin on the bottom of the pulley. I don't understand where the pin should be with relationship to the spring end (and spring retainer) - ?

Maybe I assembled it improperly last time. I didn't worry about the pin. It just seemed to fit together.

?

CMOS


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## Pappy (Oct 20, 2015)

Pin holds the other curled end of the spring in place so it winds and unwinds. After that you can load the spring through the slot. Manual should tell you this in detail.


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## CMOS (Oct 20, 2015)

Pappy said:


> Pin holds the other curled end of the spring in place so it winds and unwinds. After that you can load the spring through the slot. Manual should tell you this in detail.




Pappy, I have the manual in front of me and as usual, it's lacking in detail. The only direction the manual gives with respect to the pin and spring is (Pg 7-11, c):

"Position Rewind spring and spring retainer in cup as shown in figure 7-39." (good so far)

"Place cup washer in cup. Install pulleyt making sure spring loop engages pulley as shown in figure 7-39." (This image does not show the spring end (and retainer) engaging the pulley - the 2 part are fully separate)

Does the pin in the pulley actually go inside the small j-hook loop in the end of the spring? My apologies for not understanding this. It's just not clear.


CMOS


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## Sinkingfast (Oct 20, 2015)

Here is what my factory manual says..."Pull rope out as far as it will go. With rope fully extended, pull out loop end of starter spring, spring must be free to extend a minimum of 1/2 inch from cup."

The pic shows a screw driver behind the spring loop pulling the spring loop out 1/2 inch. 

I gave mine a lot more slack in the spring. It works well.


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## CMOS (Oct 20, 2015)

I see that - but it doesn't address where the roll pin on the pulley goes with respect the spring end.


CMOS


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## Sinkingfast (Oct 20, 2015)

Posted fast without knowing you had a manual..oops..

My '76 has the spring loop anchor cast into the spool..no pin. I think this is yours.

https://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1982&hp=15&model=E10SELCNS&manufacturer=Evinrude&section=Rewind+Starter

hope this helps..hope its not the same pic as in your manual..

Yes, spool pin goes into the spring end retainer and spring opening..the retainer probably goes on the outside of the spring.


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## Sinkingfast (Oct 20, 2015)

Sinkingfast said:


> Posted fast without knowing you had a manual..oops..
> 
> My '76 has the spring loop anchor cast into the spool..no pin. I think this is yours.
> 
> ...


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## CMOS (Oct 29, 2015)

Guys,

I will be rebuilding the starter this weekend.

Can someone answer my question about the fuel pump rebuild? I rebuilt this myself with a full kit. How do I test the Fuel Pump so I can verify I did the rebuild correctly? Note on Page 3 of this post I stated that when I did get the motor started, and rev'd the idle up for warm-up, it seemed to bod down and die as if it was starving for fuel.

Thoughts?

CMOS


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## kofkorn (Oct 29, 2015)

Are you sure it's a fuel pump problem? Easy to diagnose, while motor is running, squeeze the primer bulb on the fuel tank. If the motor operates normally, then it is likely you have a fuel pump problem. If it doesn't change, then you still need to clean the carburetor. Again, easy to test by putting some pre-mixed fuel into a squeeze bottle. With the motor running, spray some into the carb. If you can keep the motor running this way, then you've confirmed a lack of fuel, plus eliminated the fuel pump. 

To test the fuel pump, you should be able to blow air into the inlet with your mouth (use a clean piece of hose). If it is working correctly, the air should go through. There will be a restriction. Then do the same thing blowing into the outlet. You should not be able to blow air through the outlet. If either of these don't work properly, then you should consider a pump rebuild.

I recently had a 1975 15hp that would start and run shortly with the choke on. I could get it to run by feathering the choke. I had completely cleaned the carb and the jets a couple of times already. I even gave the carb to my brother who put the whole thing into a sonic carb cleaner. Still couldn't get it to run. 

I had to drill out each of the core plugs and lead shot. Once I did that and ran about a whole can of carb cleaner through it, I started getting some hardened varnish out of the passage between the bowl and the idle jet. Took a long time, a bunch of air and a whole can of carb cleaner to finally get it all out. 

Ran like a champ after. 

Point is, even though the jets and needle valve are squeaky clean, there are still other possibilities of a blocked carb.

Good luck!


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## CMOS (Oct 29, 2015)

kofkorn,

:wink: I guess I have to bring you up to date:

Carb has been fully cleaned and rebuilt with a kit.
Fuel Pump has been fully rebuilt with a kit.

Fuel pump does seem to work as you described with the "blow test". I even pulled the output line that goes to the carb off, and pulled the recoil starter a few times - and did get squirts of fuel out.

The ONLY thing I have not done that you mentioned was to drill out the lead plugs. I hope I do not have to do that but I do have to admit that when I rebuilt the carb there was some serious varnish in there. I did pull and replace the Welsh plugs when I did the rebuild.

Good input. Let me get the recoil starter rebuilt and try to start her again. If I continue to have issues I may have to remove the lead plugs and re-clean.

CMOS


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## Pappy (Oct 29, 2015)

Lead plugs.
If you have the cast aluminum fuel bowl that feeds the idle circuit through a passage that runs from the center of the fuel bowl to the side of the bowl (with a lead shot in it) then up to the main body you may have to remove that one. Check and see if you have flow through that circuit if you havent already. Am assuming you removed the high speed jet.......?


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## CMOS (Oct 29, 2015)

Pappy said:


> Lead plugs.
> If you have the cast aluminum fuel bowl that feeds the idle circuit through a passage that runs from the center of the fuel bowl to the side of the bowl (with a lead shot in it) then up to the main body you may have to remove that one. Check and see if you have flow through that circuit if you havent already. Am assuming you removed the high speed jet.......?




Yes, I removed both the slow-speed and high speed jets and and cleaned everything I could, including removing and replacing the Welsh plugs, but did not remove the Lead plugs. My fuel bowl does not appear to be cast - it looks like stamped steel to me.

IIRC, there are 3 Lead plugs on my carb.

CMOS


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## CMOS (Oct 31, 2015)

Okay, I about to rewind the spring into the lower cup but want to make sure I'm attaching the spring to the pulley properly. See pic below. Is this correct?

Before I wind the spring I'm also going to use some adhesive to affix the Cup Washer into the Cup Assembly based on a suggestion from LeeRoy on LeeRoy's Ramblings.

Also note the change in design to the Cup assembly, specifically the slot where the spring gets wound in to. Greatly reinforced.

CMOS


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## Pappy (Nov 1, 2015)

Looks good so far. A little 50:1 oil or WD40 wiped onto the spring never hurts. 
Correct length rope.
Should be good to go. 
Reminder: On any rope start, never pull rewind to the end of the rope. If the engine won't start normally...............


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## CMOS (Nov 21, 2015)

Well for the life of me I don't understand how I did what I did:

I just wound the spring and re-installed the starter. Per the manual, wound the rope CCW. However when I released the clamp on the Pulley the damn spring seems to be wound in the wrong direction - the pull handle and rope move OUT of the cowling rather than back in.

Can someone tell me how the heck I did this????? And, what do I need to correct it.

CMOS #-o


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## Sinkingfast (Nov 21, 2015)

Yer kidding us...right..

turn pulley ccw to wind spring...correct?


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## Sinkingfast (Nov 21, 2015)

Heres what I do..

Wind rope ccw, tuck in end slightly. Install pulley over spring, making sure pin engages spring. Install pivot bolt. Wind pulley ccw a turn or two. While wound, grab rope end and feed through guide. While holding rope out against spring, install handle. 

That will get her done.

I did try the book way the first time so I feel your pain.


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## CMOS (Nov 21, 2015)

Sinkingfast said:


> Yer kidding us...right..
> 
> turn pulley ccw to wind spring...correct?




Not kidding. I learned that there are 2 ways the sprig can be connected to the pulley. If the spring is oriented the way I did it THIS TIME, the damn thing is backwards. This is the second time I've assembled the starter. The first time I did it correctly (but my pull cord was too short). I just placed the darn spring on the pulley in the wrong orientation. #-o 

I will re-assemble this again. However, tomorrow I run with the 1966 9.5 HP to this old timer's catfish hole. We're gonna fill the ice chest. :mrgreen: 

CMOS


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## CMOS (Nov 30, 2015)

Recoil starter is assembled and working well.

Tried to start her but couldn't even get a cough. :| I'll have to do spark tests one night this week.


CMOS


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