# Lithium Ion Batteries.



## starzstuff (Apr 8, 2015)

Anyone tried one of these ? https://www.starkpower.com. They are a super light lithium ion battery. I was thinking of replacing mine with these. Just never had experience of them. They are light as a feather.


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## earl60446 (Apr 9, 2015)

Lithium ion are nice. Charge fast, last longer than lead acid, lighter weight, no spilling. 
More expensive, no warning when wearing down, they stop abruptly.

tim


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## Zum (Apr 9, 2015)

They have to come way down in price before I try one....$1200 pfft


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## onthewater102 (Apr 9, 2015)

I wish - that would be nice to have 2 of those in my little tinny rather than 2 size 29 lead acids...but it'll be a cold day in hell before I spend $2500 on them...


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## jethro (Apr 9, 2015)

On my snowmobile I have a handheld GPS on the handlebars and it's too much of a hassle to hardwire it, so I use batteries. A pack of 4 AA Li-Ion batteries is $10!! I use the Li-Ion because it has incredible performance advantages in the super cold weather. Regular Ni-Cads at subzero temps last maybe 6 hours but the Li-Ions are easily 4 times longer lasting. And they are light too!


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## rabbit (Apr 21, 2015)

These batteries will get cheaper. Elon Musk will have his giga-factory churning them out by the millions. It will be just like computer memory. My first memory card was 12K and cost 300 bucks. Now, that would be about 2 cents worth of memory.
Lead acid will become a thing of the past in just a few years. I'll bet that 1200 buck battery will be 600 next year and 300 the year after.


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## KMixson (Apr 22, 2015)

Give it a few years to see how they hold hold up to real world conditions. I like lithium ion batteries as I have a lot of them for my remote controlled aircraft. I am careful to charge them in a bunker to keep them from burning down the the house if they do catch on fire. They burn hot (real hot) i have heard in the neighborhood of 2100 degrees. Lead acid batteries can explode but do not burn continuously like a lithium ion battery will. In car accidents you see batteries busted wide open all the time but no fire. Will the lithium ion do the same thing? We will have to wait and see.


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## onthewater102 (Apr 22, 2015)

Are you sure you aren't using lithium polymer batteries in the RC aircraft? 

I hope Munsk's factory makes these and drives the price down - phenomenal weight savings but just can't justify the price. 14' boat is awefully small, and to cut ~60lbs out of it would be fantastic.


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## KMixson (Apr 22, 2015)

Actually I run lithium ion, lithium polymer, nickle metal hydride, nickel cadmium and alkaline depending on which plane I am flying. I have a charger that will charge any battery type I use that is rechargeable.


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## onthewater102 (Apr 22, 2015)

I only asked because I knew the polymer batteries to be the fire hazards, didn't realize lithium ions were as well. I would have thought for all the laptops they use them in they would have gotten them stable by now.


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## KMixson (Apr 22, 2015)

Lithium batteries have been pretty reliable for my uses. I have not had any fires with them myself. They do not like to be crashed, crushed, mashed, punctured or handled in a rough manner. That is why crashed RC planes with them on board are more likely to catch fire. There have been instances of cell phones catching fire due to batteries. The Boeing 787 aircraft had a couple of instances of bad lithium ion batteries melting but I think they have that rectified now. They are making the batteries safer now than they used to.


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## JMichael (Apr 23, 2015)

I use lithium polymer in my RC helicopters but I've never seen an equivalent battery in lithium ion for use with them. Can you give me a link to those Li-Ion batteries you're using in your airplanes?


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## KMixson (Apr 23, 2015)

Here is a link for a lithium ion pack. I use two to get 7.4 volts.

https://www.all-battery.com/polymerli-ionbattery37v10000mah30104.aspx


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## DEMikey (Apr 24, 2015)

biggest thing with lithium, and you will see this in the R/C world, and why your power tools abruptly stop is, its not that the battery goes dead and stops. lithium batteries are so "active" that it is very dangerous to charge a lithium battery that is completely dead. where your 12v Deep cycle battery can be ran all the way down, a lipo cell (1s) has a charged voltage of 3.7v (man i hope im remembering these numbers correctly) and is done at 3.3v while that doesnt seem like a lot, the WHOLE useful life is within that .4v when lipo's drop below that voltage (3.3v per cell) they become very unstable when charging and thats when they can catch fire. most r/c cars have a low voltage alarm, or the electronic speed controller will cut the power way back enough for you to drive the vehicle back to you and thats about it, and thats why your power tools just stop. that is their low voltage alarm. 

please correct me if i am wrong on any of this. i has been a while.


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## KMixson (Apr 24, 2015)

You are correct. I have a charger that lets me see just how many mAh it takes to charge the batteries back to full voltage. Then you can get an estimate of how long your run times are draining the batteries and then you can run for longer or shorter times to account for the difference. I also use a temperature probe on Lithium ion and lithium polymer batteries that automatically stops the charge if the temperature gets too high.


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## JMichael (Apr 25, 2015)

KMixson said:


> Here is a link for a lithium ion pack. I use two to get 7.4 volts.
> 
> https://www.all-battery.com/polymerli-ionbattery37v10000mah30104.aspx


That's a polymer battery not an ion.

And I believe the max voltage on a lithium polymer cell is 4.2 volts per cell not 3.7


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## KMixson (Apr 25, 2015)

JMichael said:


> That's a polymer battery not an ion.
> 
> And I believe the max voltage on a lithium polymer cell is 4.2 volts per cell not 3.7



My charger will let me know whether it is a lithium ion or a lithium polymer battery when I connect it. It will not let you charge a different type of battery on the wrong setting. If I connect a lithium ion to it and have the setting on lithium polymer it shows an error and will not start the charge. You have to charge these batteries on the lithium ion settings. 

The voltage on a lithium ion can be 3.7 volts or 4.2 volts. You have to be careful and be very certain of the type of battery you need compared to the type of battery you are buying. There are a lot of different batteries out there that look alike but are totally different animals.


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## JMichael (Apr 25, 2015)

It's my understanding that li-ion batteries are hard cased batteries (this also holds true for all that I've personally seen/used) while li-poly are the soft foil type cases. Besides that, the page you linked states that those are lithium polymer.


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## KMixson (Apr 26, 2015)

Lithium ions are are not all hard cased. Like I said before you have to be very careful in your selection because there are so many that look alike but are different. I probably have 150 battery setups for my RC planes and cars and it can get confusing if you are not careful. I have labels on each one telling me the type, max charge rate, normal charge rate, cutoff voltage and any other pertinent information I need to know at a glance. My 18650's are lithium ion also.


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## sonny.barile (May 24, 2015)

I looked through the site thoroughly. Then I got to the pricing. Then I abruptly left the site. I need a 80 amp deep cycle at the very least. That would be $799 I didn't even look at the specialized charger pricing. Just closed the window. I paid $80 for my very first 12v. and it was the type you need to add water. too. It lasted about 3 years but that was my fault. I drained the crap out of it and left it out in the boat all winter. My next one was a no maintenance sealed AGM. I think it was about $150 from the big box marine store. It has lasted 5 years and now I am shopping. The only reason it died is I dropped a wrench on it and it shorted. Talk about fireworks!!!!!!! The + terminal screw and nut looks like it got welded. It is just a glob now. I saw that Wally's has a no maintenance marine battery for $79 and I was thinking about giving it a try. However, it is Wally's, and Im not so sure........Reputation means alot.......

Anyone have experience with that battery?


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## jethro (May 26, 2015)

Yes, I have used a few of the Wally World "Neva-Start" batteries and have written about them here. Like everything in Wal-Mart, it is cheapend up enough to make you think like you are getting a good deal. The plates in the batteries are thinner because they are easier to make from recycled lead. But they work, just don't last as long in my experience. I can get 2 years out of a Neva-Start when I get 4 years out of an Interstate. The Neva-Start is about $79 when the Interstates are about $130 so it's a little more cost effective with the better battery but not that much. I use my batteries pretty hard, like 20 hours a week or more between Memorial day and Labor day.


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## Skiffing (May 26, 2015)

Wally does not stock AGM.

They are all sealed wet cell.


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## nsjames (May 26, 2015)

Lithium ion batteries are a fire hazard, in fact pretty much every lithium battery has that capability. Just the nature of using a highly volatile element in battery construction. 

nominal lithium ion/lipo cell voltage is 3.7V.
fully charged will be 4.2
LiFE is 3.3/3.6
completely dead is somewhere about 3 depending on your cells. Anything below 3 and they're usually toast.

Those are probably LiFE chemistry. Of all the lithium technology it's the one that comes closest to lead acid voltages and is the most stable. (4s will get you 12.8 nominal, 14.4 charged) They don't tend to go up in a ball of fire like the other lithium chemistries, but it is possible.
It's also the most expensive. 
There must be a charge controller in those. 
probably also some temperature sensors
and some form of overcurrent protection.


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