# Need some advise on my 6hp johnson



## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

So, I was given a 6 hp 67' Johnson. It runs good & pushes my 1436 jon ok? But, it doesn't seem to running 100%, in other words it doesn't seem to put out 6hp? After seeing some videos on youtube of a 6hp on a 1436 jon (empty , just 1 person & motor) it is getting up on plane & doing about 12-14 mph. Also, after calling my local repair shop, was told that a 6hp should get up on plane with on person in the boat. My motor does not do this, I get about 6.5 mph.

Here's what I know about the motor, it had compression test & read 70 psi. Spark plugs are good Seafoam the engine as well. Starts up & stays running no problem.

So, am I expecting too much out this little motor or is something wrong with?
Fish sometimes alone or with one of my kids. So, 6hp is fine with me if it can do 12-14 mph.

So, my dilemma is. Do I bring it to the repair shop spend $100-150 to find out what's wrong & fix. 
Or, sell it & upgrade to a 9.5hp? Here's a video from youtube of the boat & motor,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k12I9xnWknw


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Apr 29, 2015)

Are both cylinders firing?


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Yes, both firing


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## Tallpine (Apr 29, 2015)

What is the hull weight of your boat and what is max hp rating? 6hp seems a little small to me for a 14ft boat. Also 70lbs compression sounds low.


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Hull is 103#? I it's a tracker topper 14 
Rated 15 hp.


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## Tallpine (Apr 29, 2015)

I think you may be slightly underpowered at less than half the rated hp even though that's a fairly light hull. A 9.9 would make a lot of difference.


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## Pappy (Apr 29, 2015)

The issue may be a little bit of everything here. 70# compression is not stellar by any means but that is just one compression gauge reading. 
The fact that the boat is a 1436 means that it is quite narrow. That engine on a much wider 14' hull may actually outperform the 1436. Small engines like lightweight boats with a good amount of lifting surface under them. Hull loading is everything with smaller engines. 
I had a 1236 years and years ago. Would plane off with my small son, fuel tank, fishing gear, small cooler and I in it with a 1957 7 1/2hp on it...... but just barely. Went to a good wide 14' V-bottom and increased performance all the way around. 
You may be happier with a larger engine on that particular boat.


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Here's what I'm it comparing too

This is 1436 jon but it empty no gear or anything.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQQuLX1I0gw

This is also a 1436 loaded up 1 adult & 2 kids.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3bgw8tiB-w

Not what I'm getting out my motor?


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## Pappy (Apr 29, 2015)

Okay....lets see then.
Long shaft engine on a short shaft transom?
Worn out propeller?
Carburetor not fully opening
Wrong tilt pin location. 
Incorrect weight placement?


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## Tallpine (Apr 29, 2015)

Pappy said:


> Okay....lets see then.
> Long shaft engine on a short shaft transom?
> Worn out propeller?
> Carburetor not fully opening
> ...


Number 3 a possibility. In his video it didn't sound like his rpm's were as high as they should be. But that could also be due to low compression.


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Short shaft
Prop looks ok
Carb but sure about
Pin location is good
Weight had battery, trolling motor in back. But that willbe moved up front.


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Low compression?
What can that mean?
How can I check the carbs myself?


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## Pappy (Apr 29, 2015)

Pin location should be all the way against the transom on your set up. 
You have a bunch of extra weight in your hull compared to the other videos you compare against. 
Move weight forward and try your speed runs again. You are still running bow high...gotta get that bow down and fully on plane.

On the carb look at the throttle shaft that passes horizontally through the carburetor. Looking at the left or stbd side of the carb you will see a roll pin that goes through the throttle shaft. That pin, at WOT, should be close to vertical. If you have a worn or grooved throttle roller you may not be opening the carb fully.


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Pappy said:


> Pin location should be all the way against the transom on your set up.
> You have a bunch of extra weight in your hull compared to the other videos you compare against.
> Move weight forward and try your speed runs again. You are still running bow high...gotta get that bow down and fully on plane.
> 
> On the carb look at the throttle shaft that passes horizontally through the carburetor. Looking at the left or stbd side of the carb you will see a roll pin that goes through the throttle shaft. That pin, at WOT, should be close to vertical. If you have a worn or grooved throttle roller you may not be opening the carb fully.



The battery got moved up behind the front pedestal seat & trolling motor I mounted on the bow today.
I'll check the throttle too. That was my second run with the pin in the middle, first run was all the way against the transom like you said but, didn't make a difference. But, I'll it again.

Be heading out this weekend, I'll let you know how it goes! Thanks for the help!! :wink:


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## Tallpine (Apr 29, 2015)

Did you test the compression yourself? I would check again in both cylinders. Back to your original question. If you got the motor for free I would consider spending the money to get it checked out. Ask them to check the compression before doing anything. Even if it costs 200.00 to fix it you are ahead. If it still isn't enough for your boat you can sell it and get your money back.


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## BassmanET (Apr 29, 2015)

Tallpine said:


> Did you test the compression yourself? I would check again in both cylinders. Back to your original question. If you got the motor for free I would consider spending the money to get it checked out. Ask them to check the compression before doing anything. Even if it costs 200.00 to fix it you are ahead. If it still isn't enough for your boat you can sell it and get your money back.



No, my employee who is also a Mechanic checked it for me.
Good point on if I fix it & decide to sell it.


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## BassmanET (May 3, 2015)

Well, it got worse. Now the motor wouldn't start.
So, off to the repair shop I go!


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## BassmanET (May 4, 2015)

Got the diagnosis today from the repair shop.
Says, cleaned the carbs, changed the gear case oil (which was really bad & may have a leak) & has it running. Next he says, that its over heating. Pump is working ok & could be the thermostat ?
So, I'll be heading over to pick it up Friday. We will then run it in the shop, so I can see it myself.

Any comments or suggestion? Not really familiar with these motor?


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## onthewater102 (May 4, 2015)

70psi sounds really really low - though I haven't tested my old 55 johnson to see what the compression is, maybe that's normal for the old aluminum engines, I tend to doubt it.

Normal pump gas runs on ~8.7 -> 9.3 to 1 compression - that's usually a range of ~100 psi to ~130 psi, 70 is way outside that range to the point I think you'd have combustion issues for sure. To answer your question why you might not have proper compression? Probably best case scenario would be loose spark plug(s)...next up probably blown head gasket (bit more work, still easy enough to fix), worst case would be cracking somewhere.

Hard to compare your boat with whatever wood weight you have to the ones in those videos, other than to see your motor isn't running properly, but you knew that already. Bottom line with 1 person it should plane. 

Does it rev up in neutral and not when it's in gear?

If you remove a plug after running it are the plugs noticeably wet with gas?


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## BassmanET (May 4, 2015)

My last outing the motor wouldn't run?
But, last successful run. Yes, seemed to reve good.
Mechanic cleaned up & has it running.
I'll give another test run?


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## BassmanET (May 27, 2015)

Well, had motor running last weekend with my oldest son 19yr 130#. He sat on the middle bench, battery, trolling motor had been moved up front too. Got an extra 2 mph, so 8mph. Was pleasantly surprised! The I get the motor home & put it in a barrel with water to run it again (service man told me I should run the motor out of gas to protect carbs, forgot to do it at the lake) & the water pump was not spitting water! AHHH! 

How difficult is it replace a water pump on this motor? I have some mechanical abilities. Looks like the part is about $30. Will to give a try if its not too difficult?


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## cajuncook1 (May 27, 2015)

Compression = 70psi uppper and lower cylinder (Low normal for that year and make motor)
Spark = you need to check spark on both cylinders. (you should be able to jump gap of at least 1/4 inch)
Fuel delivery = carburetor cleaned properly and correct settings.


Here is a bunch of information that you can read and do the repairs yourself and know what is going on.

*Here is some information that will help you evaluate your ignition system with the flywheel popped off.*


If you don't have a harmonic balance flywheel puller, you can make a flywheel knocker tool. One of our many distinguished member put this tutorial together on how use and make a flywheel knocker to safely remove a flywheel. I have tried and it workings well. I have both the flywheel knocker and harmonic balance flywheel remover.

*Anyway here is the Flywheel knocker tool link.*

https://www.aomci.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1309393684


Your going to need to inspect your point, condenser and coils. They are located under the flywheel. Hopefully all you need to do is clean and regap your points and you might be in business. Still check your coils and condensers and plug wires.






*Here are two link to show you how to test your coils and condensers.*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT8rk5QWgS0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6eSXYmENDY




*How to replace your coils, points and condenser.* Please take digital pictures as you go, so it will help you return everything back in the right order. Keep cheap zip lock bags available to put your parts in so you don't lose them. They are small.


Here is a diagram of a generic OMC (Johnson/Evinrudle/Gale) ignition assembly. You will have to remove the coil designated for the top cylinder and put the oil wicker in. It should be already be coated with a very light oil. (not grease). The purpose of the oil wicker is to lightly lubricate the outside riding surface of the cam so the point shoes do not prematurely wear. If you look at the points they have little shoes that ride along the cam. Please make sure the (breaker)points cam is on the correct side or the ignition will be out of timing. It should have the word [highlight]top[/highlight] machine written on the side facing up. 







FYI: You can only set(gap) one set of points at a time. Put the flywheel nut back on(turn with a wrench or ratchet clockwise) to allow you turn the crankshaft. *(Please remove both spark plugs to make it easier to turn the crankshaft and prevent accidental starting) *

You gap the point to 0.020 when the point shoes is at the top(high point of the cam). It should have a mark along with the word top. Then you will turn clockwise to the next set of point 180 degrees and set those points the same way. You will notice that the point of the previous set will be closed and when you come around again they will open up. *** When they are open no current is allow through. This is how you set your timing with the points.*** 

When you go to set the point's gap. Very gently snug the anchor screw, then adjust the gap with adjusting screw and the feeler gauge until the feeler gauge is sliding through with slight resistance only. Then tighten the anchor screw. Repeat procedure with second set of points. Please make sure your hands are clean and the feeler gauge is clean, because oil on the points can foul them up and create resistance....poor or no no spark. ALways use a spark check to evaluate spark. It should jump minimum 1/4 inch. Blue sharp snappy spark.

Here is a picture of a spark check...Cheap $6







Here is a picture of how to tell which wire is going to the correct cylinder. Thanks to Garry for providing the picture on other post.








If your using the existing wires then cut about 1/4 inch of end going the coil, so you have clean un-oxidized copper contacting the spiking in the coil. Twist the end of the spark plug wire onto the coil spike. If you have replaced the wires, make sure they are 7mm copper metal core and not the automobile stuff.

***** Please make sure two things*****

1.) Make sure all the wires are tucked away under the flywheel and not rubbing up against the cam or crank, because with will eventually get damage and create a short, then no spark!! 

2.) Make sure the coil heels (ends) are evenly lined up with the mounting boss.

Here are some pictures. (Compliments of JBJennings..nice fella)











Lining up the coil heel with the mounting boss prevent damage of the coils and the flywheel magnet, prevent rubbing as the flywheel turns.

[highlight]*** Make sure the throttle is advanced to that start position***[/highlight]


Here is another picture that Garry (thanks Garry!!) supplied on another post with some modification.







Both diagrams, should answer your questions.




Here is some you tube videos that can help you diagnosis and properly setting your ignition and clean set your carburetor


Here a bunch of videos that can help you along. They are long and detail, but I purposely made them that way, so someone new to motors would feel comfortable. So, I apologize if they are boring. I originally made those videos to help a guy who had little mechanic knowledge.

*Here is a link on how to remove a flywheel.*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nz1st4XnsX4


*Here is a bunch of links to evaluate and repair your ignition*

If your looking for a help cleaning your points and testing your ignition, then here are some YouTube videos that can help.

Not professional videos, but they can help guide you through ignition diagnostics and repair. The motor in the video is a 1968 Johnson 6hp.

Hopefully will give you a visual and help you some.

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTN8Ag_aj-8

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7A6d8me0Gw

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAlT32NnTJ0

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re6FgcB_Yok

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 5

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClGt6xHnb94

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 6

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taaSzp1Ev-0

Evinrude Gale and Johnson ignition video 7

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7w0xW48YCU



*
Here is a bunch of links to help you with your carburetor.*

Here are some videos on how to clean and apply a carburetor kit for an OMC high speed fix jet carburetor. Displayed motors are 1968 Johnson 6hp and 1964 Evinrude 18hp outboards. The videos are very long and over detailed, but I want to help those who are new/novices to motor repair. Again, I am no expert or certified marine mechanic, but I am offering video to help.


OMC fix jet carburetors part 1 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MmDOaOQyQg

OMC fix jet carburetors part 2 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuByx8J-EfY

OMC fix jet carburetors part 3 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpivbGEv0wM

OMC fix jet carburetors part 4 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aWICvsQZQ8

OMC fix jet carburetors part 5 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqB6PLqeTI4

OMC fix jet carburetors part 6 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS5J_AxJrAY

OMC fix jet carburetors part 7 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq_2RfWjQ28

OMC fix jet carburetors part 8 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lXIVBX_UF4

OMC fix jet carburetors part 9 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nA_4YmNgt8

OMC fix jet carburetors part 10 of 10 (Motor displayed 1968 Johnson 6hp)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94lcU7y2P9Y


*Almost forgot to post an accessory video regarding a timing fixture. You can certain set the points with a feeler gauge as shown in the previous videos, but I just wanted to add this to the list*.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNK2TEeQQv0



*Carburetor Adjustment for idle/low speed needle. * Your carburetor has a high speed fix jet, so no adjustment. It just needs to stay clean.

Initial setting is: Slow speed = seat gently(turn in clockwise), then open 1-1/2 turns(turn out counter clockwise). Do not tighten or force the slow idle needle shut or it may damage the needle.

Start engine and set the rpms to where it just stays running. In segments of 1/8 turns, start to turn the S/S needle valve in (clockwise). Wait a few seconds (10 to 15 sec) for the engine to respond. As you turn the valve in(clockwise), the rpms will increase. Lower the rpms again (turn your throttle slightly slower) to where the engine will just stay running.

Eventually you'll hit the point where the engine wants to die out or it will spit back (sounds like a mild backfire). At that point, back out(turn out counter clockwise) the valve 1/4 turn. Within that 1/4 turn, you'll find the smoothest slow speed setting.

When you have finished the above adjustment, you will have no reason to move them again unless the carburetor fouls/gums up from sitting, in which case you would be required to remove, clean, and rebuild the carburetor anyway.


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## cajuncook1 (May 27, 2015)

Here is a online link to a parts diagram of your motor and number to order those parts.

https://www.marineengine.com/parts/johnson-evinrude-parts.php?year=1967&hp=6&model=CD-24


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## BassmanET (May 28, 2015)

WOW, thanks! 
Lots of good info to read through. Anything on water pumps?


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## bowmanhere (May 28, 2015)

tell u what thats some great feed back I found it to be good info thanks for putting that in for use bowmanhere


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## CMOS (May 28, 2015)

BassmanET said:


> WOW, thanks!
> Lots of good info to read through. Anything on water pumps?





Bassman, replacing the waterpump impeller is a 20 minute job. It is not difficult and there are a ton of threads AND YouTube videos that show every step of the way.

Sounds like you either have a worn impeller and or some debris in the cooling system itself. Start by removing the lower unit and checking the impeller.


CMOS


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