# 60's Sportsman runabout



## bobberboy (Jun 29, 2010)

MY APOLOGIES TO READERS: DUE TO NEW PHOTOBUCKET THIRD-PARTY HOSTING POLICIES THE PHOTO'S ACCOMPANYING THIS THREAD ARE NO LONGER AVAILABLE. WITHOUT THE PHOTO'S THE INFORMATION HERE HAS LOST MUCH OF ITS USEFULNESS SO PROCEED IF YOU WISH. GREED AND MONEY AS USUAL TRUMP EVERYTHING.


THIS PROJECT WAS NEVER FINISHED. SOLD ON 7/31/2015. THERE ARE STILL SOME THINGS TO SHARE SO IF YOU'RE INTERESTED, READ ON.

Seems like most people on this site are interested in their boats primarily for fishing. I recently received a 14' aluminum runabout made in the '60's that I want to fix up. I wish I could restore it to its former glory but am unable to find out anything about the boat beyond some basic info. I'm not sure whether this will be of general interest or not given that it won't be a fishing boat but It's aluminum and may be of interest to some.

So here's some history. The boat came to me by way of my partner T's dad who got it from his cousin. As I understand it, the boat has gone from Oklahoma to Colorado to Wichita where I picked it up over the weekend and now to Minneapolis. The boat is 13'-6" long and the beam is 61". It is a welded aluminum boat except for the bow deck which is fiberglass. It was manufactured by the Sportsman Boat Co., a division of Hastings Irrigation Pipe Co., Hastings, Nebraska. It's like swinada's Mirrocraft boat that was made by Aluminum Goods Manufacturing Company, a cookware company. In both cases the manufacture of boats was an offshoot from a company that was already manufacturing aluminum goods. The Hastings Pipe company is still in business and I'm writing them to see if there is any information available about their boats. I am pretty sure they're not made anymore but it would be fun to get some more background on the boat.

T's dad (Mike) got the trailer ready with new tires, temporary lights and 2" hitch. He repacked the bearings and the hubs stayed absolutely cool on the trip home. The only money into the boat so far is for the trailer - to the tune of about $200. Thanks to Mike.

I am trying to figure out based on some abandoned bolts and screws how it was configured. As you will see in the pics, it's now a 2-seater with a completely open back. There are several screws that seem to have once held structural or other parts (like maybe a back seat?). The boat sat uncovered for years so the carpet, plywood and foam are all shot. On the trip home the wind from towing the open boat pulled up everything behind the seats and did a lot of work for me. Luckily the outboard was on top of some of it and the seats created an eddy or I'd have left a 600 mile trail of debris.

Here are some pics beginning with the boat.












You can see in these that the boat itself is in good shape with no dents, holes etc.
















The interior...











I do have to replace the transom. I don't know what kind of job it will turn out to be but there are lots of examples on this site to look at.






And a couple of details...

Perko steering and Johnson controls





Electric start and choke





Nice original cleats and navigation light





The motor that came with it is an 18hp Johnson that was apparently converted from a tiller to remote steering. I don't know too much yet about its condition beyond what these pictures tell. 





I assume the "E" in the model # is for electric start










And a surprise inside...










Here's what I want to do. This won't be a restoration so I can do what I want. That's good. What I want to do is remake the boat in the spirit of a 50's-60's era boat. I don't know exactly yet but here are some ideas. The boat is parked right off my alley so the first thing is to get the windshield and any special parts like the cleats and nav lights taken off. Obviously all the guts have to come out and then I'm going to strip all the paint inside and out. There will be work making a new transom and removing any unnecessary screws and rivets and patching the holes. I want to paint it the colors of my dad's '58 Plymouth, turquoise and soft white. The turquoise will be from the chine to the gunnel and the stripe on the bow deck. The rest will be white.






On the inside I want to create "cockpits" like some of the 30's-50's boats had. I'll use mahogany for all those details including possibly making a mahogany slat-floor and spray rails.











The 18 horse Johnson is a long shaft so I'll probably replace it with a short shaft - the transom is 15". Also, the boat is rated for 40hp. I have been looking around and I'm interested in getting a restored 50's or 60's motor like one of these from smalloutboards.com.
















I guess until I get started there's not much more to tell except the current name of the boat is "Shoe" which is based on the comic strip of the same name. I've heard it's unlucky to rename a boat so for now I'm leaving that one alone.











I really looking forward to this project. My others have been with new boats but this will really be a challenge. It's going to be sweet when it's done. More to come...


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## Howard (Jun 29, 2010)

Great find, we are interested. This is Tinboats not fishing boats, lol. You have a gem on your hands. Love your plans and will follow the progress.


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## cavman138 (Jun 29, 2010)

Man thats going to be a great project.


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## norshor (Jun 29, 2010)

I will definitely be paying attention to this build. 

I might have a line on a 60's 25hp short shaft that my buddy restored and never put in the water. I don't know many details, but it's in Ely and should see my buddy this week.

Keep us up to date, I really can't wait to see what you do with it!


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## devilmutt (Jun 30, 2010)

Last week I mentioned to my wife that I would like to find a boat like the one in this thread and fix it up when I finish the current project, man did I get a dirty look.


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## bobberboy (Jun 30, 2010)

devilmutt said:


> Last week I mentioned to my wife that I would like to find a boat like the one in this thread and fix it up when I finish the current project, man did I get a dirty look.



Tell her to think of it as she might a new pair of shoes. I look on CL all the time and boats like mine are always listed for $200-$400. Fix it a little at a time and it won't hurt so much. My problem is that I have run out of room to store another boat. I am so lucky I don't own a barn...


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## RBuffordTJ (Jun 30, 2010)

What a great find! I love those runabouts, something special about the tin cans!

My hobby for years has been woodworking so I love your ideas on mahogany for the flooring and accents. Adding the Cockpit is perfect for that project too!

Here we used to have "Orlando Clippers" that were the same style as yours, several in my family owned them and they were great boats. I always have my eye open for one but now they are more collector items so people want a mint for them. I am subscribing to this thread, I really want to see what you do.

Bufford in Orlando


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## RBuffordTJ (Jun 30, 2010)

devilmutt said:


> Last week I mentioned to my wife that I would like to find a boat like the one in this thread and fix it up when I finish the current project, man did I get a dirty look.


 :LOL2: I feel your pain man!


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## bobberboy (Jun 30, 2010)

I cleaned out the inside of the Sportsman tonight. Things were pretty rotten inside. The plywood was practically pulverized. When I was done, except for the seats and foam, it all fit into the trash bin.






Here's the boat without the guts. In the next couple of days I'm taking it to the car wash to clean it up. Things look good inside. I was surprised to find some of the bracing near the bow was welded. I discovered the bow deck was aluminum after all. The way the paint was cracked it looked like fiberglass but I'm glad it's aluminum. I guess the next step then will be stripping the paint. My brother's coming down in a couple of weeks and we'll fill the boat with water (after I put a couple of straps around it), check for leaks and rebuck the rivets.





















I looked online today and based on the model number found out the motor is a 1964. It was new with the boat so that dates the boat too. T's dad emailed me to say that the motor was remote steering from the start. I guess the same basic frame was used for both remote and tiller models. You can see on the right side of the motor where the tiller would have been and why I assumed it was converted. I've got a lot to learn about motors and it's another project I can start anytime. I am really excited to keep things moving along and there's a lot I can do right now without spending a load of dough.


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## countryboy210 (Jul 1, 2010)

Do You Have A Key To Fit The Original Switch Plate ?

You Are Going To Have A Lot Of Guys Watching This Project. =P~


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## bobberboy (Jul 1, 2010)

countryboy210 said:


> Do You Have A Key To Fit The Original Switch Plate ?
> 
> You Are Going To Have A Lot Of Guys Watching This Project. =P~


I got a bag of parts with the boat that I haven't looked into yet. Hopefully it's in there.


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## Froggy (Jul 1, 2010)

I would love a project like this, good luck with it


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## free jonboat (Jul 1, 2010)

you know, i just posted a couple of days ago and asked if anybody had ever made a tinnie into a pleasure boat. i guess i found my answer :lol:


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## Troutman3000 (Jul 2, 2010)

LOOK AT THESE

https://bham.craigslist.org/boa/1821510211.html


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## Erock (Jul 3, 2010)

i also will be following this thread closely i have a fishing boat and im looking to find something like this for my next project.


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## Waterwings (Jul 3, 2010)

Great find, and am also looking forward to your progress. Are the seat frames still in good shape? If so, you could probably use them and have an upholsterer do new foam and covers.


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## shootisttx (Jul 5, 2010)

That is a sweet looking little boat. What a great project...I really like your plans for the "cockpits" and the mahogany trim work. Best of luck in getting it together!


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## bobberboy (Jul 5, 2010)

I decided rather than risking my neck on the lake today I'd do some more work on the sportsman. I took it to the car wash and gave it a good cleaning inside, brought it home to dry and then got inside and started taking things apart.

I tipped the boat up to get it to drain completely and I was able to get a good look at the bunks on the trailer as well as the bottom of the boat. Except for the paint, the bottom of the boat was good. No dings or dents and especially no holes.











The bunk configuration was a bit of a mystery though it really doesn't matter since I'll be taking the trailer completely apart to paint. I have not seen a set-up quite like this before but given the condition of the boat bottom I'd have to say it works.











Next the windshield came off. It was pretty easy, only 6 bolts and some silicone holding it on. 






Based on what I found I'm guessing this is the second windshield on the boat. There was second row of holes in front of the ones where the windshield was currently bolted on that were clearly configured for another, earlier windshield. You can see in the photo the holes circled in red were where the current windshield was bolted on. Those holes are over-drilled and misshapen, not a factory installation. The holes circled in black were all drilled precisely and tapped for the original windshield. The current windshield was also on top of the gunwales at the sides and the void was filled with silicone, another non-factory job. 






I hope the windshield will clean up with that plastic polish made to use on headlight covers. It is pretty clear but there are some areas of crazing in the plexiglass. At least I know now that if I can't clean it up it is possible to retrofit another one.

Next came the misc. unused and abandoned screws - dozens of them. There was carpet strip of both sides to hold the old carpet and lots of other screws and bolts that used to hold god knows what. This is a typical example of the screw heads smeared with silicone that I removed.






You can see in this photo (circled in red) that there are three sets of 3 bolts on each side that were abandoned. They must have been for seats or something structural. Given there is nothing connecting the two sides of the boat together between the bow deck and the stern, I have to believe there was something important in there someplace. I don't find any bends or stress cracks from the lack of structural connections so I guess all is well.






I got really lucky on the transom as the back corner braces and caps are screwed on. This is going to make replacing the transom so much easier. I haven't really got into getting the old one out yet, but all the aluminum around it seems to be removable.






The old cables and wiring harness.






So another few hours and more crap in the dumpster. The more I clean off the more excited I get to start with the fixing. 






Speaking of which, I want to get a nice (automotive?) finish on the boat eventually. I'm thinking of taking it to have all the screw and bolt holes welded and then grinding them, bondo if necessary to smooth things out before primer and paint. Is this overkill? Most of the holes are for #6 or #8 screws, a few 1/4" for bolts. Will any of the filler-type products give me the kind of finish I'm interested in ?

The nest step now that the windshield is off will be to turn the boat over and start to strip the paint.


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## bobberboy (Jul 13, 2010)

I started to strip paint tonight. I just used what I could find at Menard's - it was a marine/auto finish remover of some kind. Pretty nasty stuff. I'm surprised you don't have to file an environmental impact statement just to use it. One thing's certain, never in an enclosed area. If I use it again I think I'll get a hazmat suit. Anyway, here is a sample of the shiny aluminum beneath the paint...


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## waterfowler1 (Jul 14, 2010)

sure is lookin good!


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## MWAK87 (Jul 14, 2010)

Wow! Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## BaitCaster (Jul 14, 2010)

Wow, that's a great project boat. Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## bobberboy (Jul 14, 2010)

I feel like we're in the tropics - a rain shower every few hours so I can't start anything long-term. I did take the mouse nest out of the motor tonight - kinda of wish I hadn't. The following pic kind of tells the story. I'm going to post the motor work on another thread in the motors section under _18hp Johnson in intensive care_.


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## RBuffordTJ (Jul 15, 2010)

From what I can see it doesn't look THAT bad. I have seen some in much worse shape.

Bufford


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## jasper60103 (Jul 15, 2010)

edit: deleted. wrong thread.


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## bobberboy (Jul 16, 2010)

So I took the day off and when I got tired of cleaning out the garage, I took the runabout out to get some advice/estimates. I stopped at a nearby welding shop to ask about all the little holes I need to patch. I want the fixes to be permanent and had thought of having the holes welded shut then grinding and finishing. The welder was a nice guy and his advice was to get a two-part epoxy material he said he's used a lot and is confident will do a good long-lasting job. I bought it at a welding supply shop. I'm going to give a try and hope for the best. It was about $7.50 for a 2oz. kit









Next stop was at the sandblaster's shop. The welder and the sandblaster both told me that sandblasting may not be the way to go because it leaves the surface pitted (do you guys agree with this?) and the bead blaster will slightly distort the metal (due the the pressure, I assume) and may cause the rivets to leak. He suggested soda blasting @ $250/hour. He figured it would take 1-2 hours if I have him do the inside too. That's a lot of dough and I'm not going to pay it. I looked into small portable units and found this one for about $280 and the soda media at about $40 for 50#. 






I know some of you here have recently written about soda blasting and blasting in general to get the old paint off. I don't know what to do. After all those years in art school I can't afford to lose anymore brain cells. I figure I will have just barely enough as it is. So do I use aircraft stripper, or blast the thing myself? When the boat's finished I will have to sell it due to no permanent storage space. I don't plan to make any money on it, I just don't want to lose any. So far I have about $250 into it.


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## altimas (Jul 16, 2010)

Are you trying to get it like a mirror finish? If so I would strip it with aircraft thinner and then use Sharkskin Mirror Polish with maybe some Sharkskin protectant too.


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## bobberboy (Jul 16, 2010)

altimas said:


> Are you trying to get it like a mirror finish? If so I would strip it with aircraft thinner and then use Sharkskin Mirror Polish with maybe some Sharkskin protectant too.


 No, I want to get an automotive finish. It'll be primed and painted when it's done. I just want to have the best start I can without a lot of misc holes and so on in it. I suppose the sand used in blasting is fine enough that the surface might be ok after it's primed. I was talking to my brother about it and he wondered whether the sand blasting would also distort the surface due to pressure. Is there any heat generated during sandblasting?


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## bobberboy (Jul 20, 2010)

I got a response today from the company that used to manufacture the boat. I am excited that there may be some info available. Here's the email...

_Happy to hear that you are in the process of restoring a Sportsman boat. We
do have some information on them, but most of it is from memory. The boats
were manufactured during the late fifties and early sixties. During this
time three abnormally wet years were experienced in the Central-states
region, making it difficult to sell irrigation equipment. In order to
survive, the company turned to other metal working trades including the
manufacturing of aluminum boats.

I am curious where you are located and a little history of the boat you are
working on. (who was the owner)?

If you need any specific information on the rebuild, drop me an email or
call. Information is limited, but we would try to help_.

Later in the day I also got a scan of a brochure from the company showing some of the models/specs of the Sportsman Boat co.


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## bobberboy (Jul 21, 2010)

I did some more work today. I started by getting the boat off the trailer in order to remove all the junk and install temporary supports so I could turn the boat upside-down and start stripping the paint. Everything I removed made the trailer look better. It's actually a really good trailer. It tows perfectly, it just needs the bunks to be rebuilt and once painted, to run the wires inside the frame. I do have a couple of questions though. As you can see in the pics, it's a tilting trailer. I don't really care about that option but its design makes the boat ride pretty high. I am wondering if, short of rebuilding the cross-members of the frame, if there is any way to lower the trailer. The new bunks will be flat and not on edge so that will gain a couple of inches. I saw someone on this site once who bolted the axle above the springs to gain another inch or two but I'm not sure about that. Anyway, I'll be glad to get any ideas.

Pretty ugly bunks






The bunks gone






Temporary supports for the boat






Waiting for the paint to come off






Here are two closer looks at the frame






It's too hot to strip paint today. The stripper dries within a minute or so on the hot metal so I'm wandering around on Tinboats instead. Hope to get the paint off soon.


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## Pruitt1222 (Jul 22, 2010)

I really like this boat and hope it cools off for you here soon. That way I can see more progress. On another note you really need to get busy that way I can watch and learn. I might be picking up a 50's lonestar about like yours and am chomping at the bit like a old horse. Cant wait to see more, Keep up the good work.


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## bobberboy (Jul 22, 2010)

I did get some more stripping done last night after it cooled down. I couldn't find the Aircraft stripper anywhere locally so I bought a Zinzer product instead - some kind of heavy duty paint stripper. I got a goodly sized part of the bottom stripped with the product and some #3 steel wool. Little by little...

BTW, that Lonestar is a sweet looking boat. Hope you decide to go for it.


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## Howard (Jul 22, 2010)

Did you check the auto parts stores for the aircraft stripper? Good luck on your mod. Just finished stripping mine inside and out with the exception of the bottom. I rebuilt and painted my trailer before starting on my tin. Steel wool worked well for me also.


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## bobberboy (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm half done stripping the outside. I've been working on it in the a.m. before it gets too hot. Except for all the holes to fix, the hull's in really great shape. Some of you might think I'm a nut-job, but I've got a system down now that is working well to get the paint off. After getting an estimate for $250-500 to soda blast, I had to go with the stripper (I've got way more time than money). Anyway, I try to do a small section at a time - maybe 2-3 sq/ft. The first application of stripper takes off all the paint but the primer. The second takes almost everything else (there's a gray primer with another red undercoat beneath it). I put on a thin third coat of stripper and then use my drill and wire brush and start brushing while the stripper is still doing its thing. This takes most of the rest. Finally I spray mineral spirits on the newly cleaned area (I put some in a hand spray bottle) and go over with the brush again which takes the rest and polishes up the surface a bit. I'm using the wire wheel on the flat face, not on edge and with light pressure all the color shadows, etc. are coming out. It's pretty exciting to see all that shiny aluminum after I'm done. One note, using the stripper with the wire wheel requires you to be fully covered up - long pants, long sleeves, full face protection, respirator and good heavy-duty rubber gloves. Man, don't get that crap on your skin whatever you do.


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## lucescoflathead (Aug 2, 2010)

I use oven cleaner to remove old paint. It also cleans off oxidation. Always use rubber gloves as the stuff is almost pure lye. Use heavy water pressure to flush it off when your finished.

You don't want to sandblast aluminum. It will warp it. Good luck on your project. Todd


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## bobberboy (Aug 24, 2010)

I finished stripping the boat yesterday - 1 1/2 gal of stripper but it looks good. I had been worried about the next step which was to fill all the screw holes left after I removed all the useless screws and bolts, probably a couple of dozen in all. I decided today to try the epoxy recommended by the welder and I'm pretty happy with the result.

I started by grinding the outside of the hole flat to get rid of the ridge around the holes. I found a set of 2" sanding/polishing discs for my drill at Menard's. There are three sanding discs and two polishing discs made of that fiber stuff like grill scrubbers are made of. The 2" size worked well for the small holes.






First I ground the surface flat...






...and then polished them enough to get the deep scratch marks out. Several of the holes had silicone inside from the old screws so I had to make sure all that was out of the hole. Next I used a countersink from the outside of the hole to bevel the edge of the hole and then put masking tape on the inside of the hole so the epoxy wouldn't go drooling down the inside.






I did the last two steps to create a rivet shaped plug with the epoxy that would bond to the surface better but also be more likely to stay put. I pushed the epoxy into the hole so it mushroomed under the tape and with the angled/countersunk hole on the outside should make a shape that will keep the epoxy in place. I tried not to make cow pies of the epoxy but did anyway which makes the sanding harder but in the end the filled holes turned out better than I expected.











Pretty happy so far. I have to finish the rest of the holes and then I'm going to fine sand the outside prior to cleaning and painting. I'm pretty relieved about the result of the epoxy because all the prep work would have been for nothing if the holes would have turned out badly.


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## RBuffordTJ (Aug 25, 2010)

I am enjoying your progress, keep it up.

Bufford in Orlando


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## BaitCaster (Aug 25, 2010)

Looking good. I am lovnig this project. Can't wait to see more!


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## bobberboy (Aug 25, 2010)

I finished filling the last of the holes this morning. I will grind and sand either tonight or in the morning and then get ready for the final sanding. For those of you who have painted boats before, should I wait to wash the surface with acetone until just before I am ready to paint? I'm not sure when and where I can paint as I have no garage or shed to do it in. I think it was either perchin or dyeguy who posted a pic of a temporary tarp shelter he used to paint under. That's probably the best option. I want to get the primer on soon to protect all the work I have done so far. I may not be able to paint until the spring depending on how the rest of the summer pans out. I suppose fall would be a good time to paint after we've had a killing frost and all the bugs are gone. No matter, I'll get to it whenever the time is right. I also want to prime the bottom so I can turn it over and begin the repair to the hood in front and start making cardboard mock-ups of the mahogany. I still have the motor to keep working on and the trailer to take apart and paint. I'm feeling pretty excited about the nice job the epoxy did on filling the holes. That'll make the finished product nice.


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## Troutman3000 (Aug 25, 2010)

What is a countersink tool? Also how much did that kit cost?


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## Howard (Aug 25, 2010)

Looks really nice.......


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## bobberboy (Aug 25, 2010)

Troutman3000 said:


> What is a countersink tool? Also how much did that kit cost?



A countersink tool or bit is used typically with flathead screws in wood to - countersink - them. As you can see from the pic, the bit will drill a "V" shaped hole into the material allowing the flathead screw to be flushed with the top of the material. You would just drill the countersink deep enough to flush the screw or deep enough to accept a filler of some kind if you wanted the screws covered. In my case I just drilled enough to widen the hole on the outside surface so the "V" shaped hole would effectively lock the epoxy in place.







I paid just under $10 for the little drill set. I got it because the holes are so small and an angle grinder would have been overkill. It worked really well but was a little coarser than need be. I still have to go over the whole thing once more with a fine grit of some kind so the grinding marks should come out.


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## bobberboy (Aug 27, 2010)

I finished filling the holes, sanding etc. and realized that before I could turn the boat over and work on the top I needed to fix the trailer. I pitched the old bunks because they were so crappy and thought I might as well get the trailer ready now so I don't ruin the finish on the boat when I'm done painting. Taking the trailer apart was pretty straight forward...






..with only one surprise. I guess if the wheels don't fit the hub you just need to get a cutting torch and make the hole bigger. This is called creating your own reality. At least the bolt pattern is correct. Once again, I'm going to guess that this was no factory job.


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## Nevillizer (Aug 27, 2010)

Wow, that thing id gonna be a real gem when you done. Good job.


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## thad. (Dec 9, 2010)

Any more progress?


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## bobberboy (Dec 11, 2010)

thad. said:


> Any more progress?


It's currently under about 2' of snow. Everything's on hold until spring...


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## jasper60103 (Dec 11, 2010)

bobberboy said:


> thad. said:
> 
> 
> > Any more progress?
> ...



Yea, unfortunately us Minnesotans are having a blizzard today. Bobberboy, I hope you got your snowblower ready! :LOL2:


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## thad. (Dec 11, 2010)

How big is your living room?
You gotta prioritize....

:LOL2:


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## lbursell (Dec 11, 2010)

thad. said:


> How big is your living room?
> You gotta prioritize....
> 
> :LOL2:



=D>


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## lucescoflathead (Dec 11, 2010)

I built an engine for a Triumph motorcycle in the kitchen of my first house.My wife and I were working opposite shifts. She would have never known except I fell asleep once and left the cylinder jugs in the dish washer. True story...... Todd


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## bobberboy (Dec 11, 2010)

That's a funny dishwasher story...I'd get caught because my partner T is finishing her masters right now and spends a lot of time reading and writing at home. I guess I could work on the motor except it's a 40hp and is too heavy to be moving around all the time. With the weather as it is today, I should just hibernate...


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## bobberboy (Dec 12, 2010)

thad. said:


> Any more progress?



Here's the reason there has been no progress and won't be any for a while. My jon boat is on the left and the camper on the right. The hump in the middle is the runabout under several feet of snow.


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## thad. (Dec 14, 2010)

How would your wife feel about moving the living room furniture outside for a little 'air'?
:lol:


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## CAPTCAMELTOE (Dec 18, 2010)

thad. said:


> How would your wife feel about moving the living room furniture outside for a little 'air'?
> :lol:




lmao!! :mrgreen:


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## bobberboy (Dec 19, 2010)

thad. said:


> How would your wife feel about moving the living room furniture outside for a little 'air'?
> :lol:



If I did I guess I could expect to be getting a little "air" myself...


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## bobberboy (Jun 28, 2011)

We've had a pretty cool and rainy spring here. Having had no rain for 2 days in a row, I got back to work on the trailer for the sportsman. I'm still stripping the paint on the frame - should finish that tonight. I'm wondering though if there is any reason I should not strip and paint the axle and springs. I'm also wondering about painting the wheels. Should I take the tires off and completely strip them? I can't remember whether the inside (the part of the wheel inside the tire) is raw steel or painted. I don't want to compromise the seal on the tubeless tires. I am looking forward to getting the trailer back together so I can turn the boat over, get it back on the trailer and start on the inside. More to come...(I hope).


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## bobberboy (May 14, 2014)

It's been over three years since I've done any work on this. Monsoon springs, very hot summers, falling off a ladder and going to the hospital, working too much and on and on...

but now that I'm retired it's time to get back at it. Last fall because I had to clean out the garage I was forced to put the trailer back together and get the boat back on it before winter. I'll post some about that at some point. Nothing big really, just paint and assemble. I was in a hurry so of course I'll be doing some things over again.

Today I got to work on the top of the boat for the time since I finished stripping the hull and filling the holes in August 2010! That's almost four years ago. I can't believe it has been that long. I guess it's going to take a bit to figure out where I left off and what I want to do. I have a lot to do.

Today I got to filling all the holes in the hood except for the two large ones. A former owner used a screwdriver to make the holes so they were kind of a mess. I decided to cut out around them with a hole saw to make them regular and I will make some patches with the same hole saw to fill them. I don't know if some kind of epoxy will hold in a backer to support the patches or if I need to have them welded on. Anyway, for now that's a little progress.


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## matzilla (May 15, 2014)

Love this boat, can't wait to see the progress!


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## Kismet (May 15, 2014)

Glad to see you didn't abandon the project. Three years and you may be in contention for longest "one of these days" awards. 

Welcome back.

=D>


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## bobberboy (Jun 2, 2014)

I uncovered the boat again today trying to figure out where I left off and what's next. I've actually uncovered it a few times in the last month but today I started messing around with a few things. I'm reviewing the plans I made almost four years ago to see if I still agree with myself after all this time. Yes and no.

One thing for sure I haven't changed my mind about is what an outrage the PO committed on this boat. Holes below the waterline, goo everywhere, no structural support across the boat when the seats were removed. It's a wonder the thing survived at all. And let's not forget the holes for the radio antenna and what not. I may be a snob but I am of the opinion that it generally takes only a little more money and time to do a thing properly. I'm not into things being done half-assed and it raises the other issue - doing something because you can doesn't mean that you should.

I'm starting to look into the inside and figure out how I am going to configure the seats etc. While I'm thinking I decided to make a few tests on cleaning the interior and polishing up some of the aluminum extrusions. There's a lot of oxidation or crud or something built up on it since I finished stripping it way back when. I started with a wire brush and a drill today to see how things would polish up and it should work pretty well. You can kind of see in the photo the difference before and after.





The inside has some kind of factory coating, a splatter paint that may have been done just to cut the reflection from inside of the boat. I did some tests to see about cleaning it up a bit but as I'll be spraying on another coat of something similar I don't have to strip it completely. I found a Rust-Oleum product I thought would work. It's a texture paint that would work nicely but after I got it home noticed it was for indoor use. I'm not quite sure why that is but I don't think I'll take a chance.









I'm going to paint the area below the floor with the bed liner paint many people here have used. 

I've decided not to paint the whole boat as I originally thought. I am going to polish up the gunnels and the chines 






paint the upper part off white and the hood the aqua color I used on the trailer.









Soon I am going to get out the cardboard and start to model what the interior will look like. The seats are a bit of a mystery as I don't want to sink a bunch of dough into them. I'd love to have two upholstered bench seats that would fit into the contours of the interior but too much $. I have to get rid of the boat once I've finished it and I'll never get out of it what I put in if I'm not careful.


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## bobberboy (Jun 13, 2014)

Today I got inside and scrubbed most of the oily gunk out of the inside. I hadn't bothered to take the foam out from under the splash-well so I finally got around to that too. I was probably in denial about that last bit because, as I should have known, I finally got to see the bottom inside of the transom and yes, I have to take it out and replace it. Dang it anyway. There's a built-in design flaw that could only have ended in the transom having rotted away (red ellipse). You can see in the photo below that the stringers running the length of the inside attach to the transom with screws. There are three on either side of the center following the curve of the bottom. Water drained to the back of the boat between the stringers but there was no accommodation made to drain the water down to the center and out the drain hole so water was trapped on the upper side of the stringer (green arrow). I'm going to have to drill holes (blue arrow).





To do a proper job of it I should take out the splash well rather than try to slip the wood past it but that's a mean mess of rivets to grind off and remove, plus three drain holes. The plywood is a single thickness or I'd see if I could cut off the bottom half of the inside sheet if it were two 3/4" pieces glued together. You can see how many rivets I'll need to take out in the two photo's that follow. The last photo shows the cast corner pieces and the bent cap on the top edge held on with headless nails. This a drag and I'm not looking forward to having to do it. 













Can anyone explain the rivets to me? I'm not sure how to replace them. I'm familiar with pop rivets but these are factory jobs and I don't know if it's possible to replace with the same kind. What I really wish is that I could dry the wood and impregnate it with resin or something that would prevent any further rotting and also consolidate the wood that's there. I'm going to look into any alternative I can to avoid doing this. Any suggestions would be appreciated.


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## ccm (Jun 14, 2014)

If it's rotten it's rotten. There's no other way around it but to rip it out. There are two ways of doing hard ware for the transom.

1. Factory style with aircraft grade solid rivets with you & a bribed buddy hand bucking or investing in an air hammer with a proper attachment along with a bucking bar. Long & tedious process to do it properly.

2. Replace as many of the main rivets in the transom as possible with SS bolts washers & lock nuts ( all of the ones below the water line & through the transom wood ). The corner brackets/L brackets on top can be put back on with pop blind rivets/closed end rivets. Seal all of the SS bolts going through the transom with a dab of 3M5200. This process does not take as long as the previous one mentioned but is still time consuming and a pain in the rear to do.

No body wants to replace a transom & I dread the day I have to rip out the original one in my 1961 Sea King built by Arkansas Traveler. It has a total of 76 that will have to be removed in order to get it out. I have gone to great lengths to sand & reseal it so that maybe just maybe I wont have to do it. The best of luck to you, ccm.


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## ccm (Jun 14, 2014)

Just counting what I can see then multiplying by two. Only counting the 4 in the middle of the transom once & I'm not counting the ones in the L/corner brackets. 26 x 2 = 52 + 4 = 56. So I'm guessing around 56 SS bolts, washers, locknuts, & a tube of 3M5200. I believe you can reattach the L/corner brackets with closed end pop rivets.


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## bobberboy (Jun 14, 2014)

Thanks for the replies - I guess I knew there wasn't much of a choice, but people here are creative and figure stuff out so I was hopeful. If I could leave the splash-well in tact I could avoid about half the rivet replacement. The splash-well isn't actually attached to the transom, it's riveted on each side and the front is attached to the extrusion running cross-wise but the metal is only bent up against the transom. Maybe I should start there and see whether or not I have to take it completely apart. I recently saw a post about the drain holes in the splash-well but the drain at the bottom is a concern to me. I'll have to look again to see how it was installed and what's involved in taking it out.


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## bobberboy (Jun 14, 2014)

I've been doing a little research on the possibility of restoring wood with mild rot or dry rot. There are lots of examples of ships that have been restored either as wrecks from under water or from burial mounds. One famous example is the Oseberg ship in Norway. It was recovered from a burial mound dating to 834 and was excavated in 1904-05. The wood had to be treated to stabilize and consolidate it after having been buried for 1,100 years. It is now on exhibit in Norway. 

Here is the ship as it was being excavated from the burial mound





Here is the ship as it sits in the museum





If you are an extremely wealthy chemist with a lot of time on your hands, the methods used to conserve the Oseberg could be applied to your rotting transom. I am none of those so I started looking to see if there weren't other methods that a poor non-chemist might be able to use. I came up with the following that may have some potential, depending on how much damage has been done by rot/dry rot. I don't have any personal experience with the products but the first got some pretty good reviews. 

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=1269

The second one takes quite a bit of time to cure and may not be practical if you ever want to get your boat back on the water.

https://www.preservation-solutions.com/blog/how-to-treat-waterlogged-wood/

I don't know if anyone here has had any experience with these kinds of materials. If so it would be good to hear from you. As the rot on my transom doesn't seem to be too extensive, I'm going to further investigate the resin product from Jamestown Distributors before I make any decision about replacing my transom.


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## bobberboy (Jun 17, 2014)

I don't feel like dealing with the transom right now so as a way of stalling I started to work on the interior today. I'm trying to make some decisions about a couple of things.

First is the floor. I can't decide whether to follow the contour of the bottom or make a flat floor. Following the contour would in some ways be easier and give a deeper interior. As this isn't a fishing boat I don't suppose standing on a flat floor is necessary. Making a flat floor would make the rest of the interior work easier because I'd be starting from a constant, level surface. 

Once I decide there is the question of the material and finish. I had originally thought to make a slatted mahogany floor. I could do that either with the flat or contoured floor. The real question about it is whether doing so is going over the top. This isn't a Chris Craft and never will be. It's a boat made by an irrigation company in Nebraska trying to stay afloat during a slow sales period. I don't want to give the boat delusions of grandeur and I especially don't want to end up polishing a turd. At this point I'm inclined to make a flat floor and carpet it.

I put some pieces of wood across the ribs to get a sense of the floor line and where I will need to add support to make it flat. I think I ended up with about 20" from floor to gunwale. The interior of the boat is such that I can add the support without any more holes below the waterline. There are enough structural members I can attach to and the framing seems pretty straight forward. 

Next I began looking at the placement of the seats and dividing the inside. I think I am going to divide the interior like I originally planned with "bulkheads" to create three separate cockpits. I have seen examples of small aluminum runabouts that were configured this way so it seems like it would be an ok thing to do. I had to make a guess to begin with where the front seats would go because I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet (bench seats or individual seats). I was mostly trying to see what kind of building issues would come up and work out some of the design details. The following pics give some sense of what's likely to happen.

You can see in the first pic the 1x1's that show what the flat floor will look like. The two plywood cross members will be the top of the "bulkheads". I'm going to make the vertical dividers from mahogany plywood with lots of marine varnish and I may epoxy the edges to be double sure no water gets in. 





I'm going to make the tops arched to match the curvature of the hood. The radius of each will flatten out as they go towards the back so the hood curve is greatest flattening out at the transom.









I'm going to trim the inside with mahogany following the shape of the gunnels and curving into each of the cockpits. There was a funny detail in the front where the hood meets the gunnels with a little notch that abruptly ends the hood. I decided to start there and draw a straight line to the back where the gunnels transition into the cast corner braces. This creates a straight inner line and the outer follows the curve of the boat.

String line from notch at hood to corner brace at back. 




Red line shows the notch location under all the tape.





All the cardboard and tape will eventually be mahogany plywood/hardwood.





The rounded detail on the inside corners of the cockpits.





I'm going to make the middle section larger than you see here. The way back will have a flat cover and the gas tanks and batery will be back there.





I guess the transom and floor will be next and I'll just work out the details from there.


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## bobberboy (Jun 24, 2014)

I didn't want to do it but I started to take things apart to get the transom out. So far it was easy enough. The only tricky thing is to drill out the rivets in the center so as not to enlarge the hole. I first used a 3/32" bit to get an accurate pilot hole and then used a 7/32" to drill out the rivet. The rivets were 3/16" so the 7/32" should be the right size for the replacements.





There were 10 rivets on each side that came out easily.





The only hard thing was the drain holes. I tried a long blade on the Sawsall but couldn't make it work. I resorted to a cold chisel and made a real dog's breakfast out of them. I suppose it won't matter in the end because they need to be replaced anyway.



 

So now I can see what I've got to work with. The transom was actually pretty sound except for the bottom edge. I had hoped not to have to go through this step but the consensus was to go ahead and do it the right way.


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## ccm (Jun 24, 2014)

Sooner or later it would have had to be ripped out. You've done a great job of drilling out the rivets. I blame your problems on bad transom design. I've never seen one go all the way to the bottom of the floor before. But hey it's better to do this now rather than have to when you get the boat all fixed up. I like the design and what your going for here; cant wait to see it finished so keep up the good work. 
Now only if it could quit raining where I'm at so I could finish prepping my boat for paint.


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## Kismet (Jun 24, 2014)

You know.........


it occurs to me that you maybe might not want to replace the bottom half of the transom with wood, which will (someday) have the same issues.

Gotta be some synthetic...plastic, fiberglass, cutting board-type stuff that would be available that thick and wide, and then you could just put wood up on the top (half/third/whatever).

Glue the two together.


Might work, maybeso?


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## bobberboy (Jun 25, 2014)

So if I kept it 3-4" up from the floor would there be any structural issues? It would be a lot easier because I wouldn't have to deal with the little tabs that are currently screwed to the transom. It would also solve the problem of water being trapped against the transom as it would then have a 1-1/2" channel to drain to the bottom without the of plywood.


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## Kismet (Jun 25, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=356996#p356996 said:


> bobberboy » Today, 05:57[/url]"]So if I kept it 3-4" up from the floor would there be any structural issues? It would be a lot easier because I wouldn't have to deal with the little tabs that are currently screwed to the transom. It would also solve the problem of water being trapped against the transom as it would then have a 1-1/2" channel to drain to the bottom without the of plywood.




I wasn't thinking of raising it above the floor, just using a different material IN PLACE to prevent future rot. 

I'm guessing, but I'd think the floor needs to have that pressure on it for structure solidarity--maintain integrity if hitting a rock or whatever.

But...dunno. 

You're doing a nice job. Best wishes.


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## bobberboy (Jun 25, 2014)

.

It's not always easy doing the right thing but about a million rivets later I got the transom out today. It was in surprisingly good shape for being 50 years old. There was about an inch along the bottom that was in pretty rough shape otherwise it was pretty sound. I couldn't have known until I took it out what the side I _couldn't_ see looked like so I guess it's all good. My notion of craftsmanship is doing a good job even where it doesn't show so I guess in the end I had to do what I had to do. I guess it also buys me some bragging rights...I hope.









I couldn't believe how flimsy the boat was once I took off the cast corner brackets at the transom. There was practically no structure to the boat without everything being tied together by the brackets. It's also easy to forget (or hard to imagine) how thin the aluminum really is.

Now I can get the back end cleaned out and solve the problem of draining the water to the center bottom. I have an idea for creating a channel that I'll take pics of when I get to that point. Now it's time to get some plywood.





.


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## Keystone (Jun 25, 2014)

I'm going to have to run up your way and see this once you have it finished.


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## bobberboy (Jun 25, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=357085#p357085 said:


> Keystone » 8 minutes ago[/url]"]I'm going to have to run up your way and see this once you have it finished.



As I've been at it for four years you needn't hurry!


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## bobberboy (Jun 28, 2014)

.
Got a little work done today. I had to take out the angle brackets between the stringers and the transom to be able to do a good job of cleaning and also to get the new transom in. That added another 12 rivets to the growing number that need to be replaced. I think it's nearly 80 by now. A also found four small holes that I had missed before. They're below the water line of course and are from the mounting and remounting of a depth finder. I got the back half of the new transom cut and fit. The old transom made a poor template so I had to make a cardboard one and ended up recutting to get a good fit. Luckily it needed to be smaller as I couldn't have cut it bigger...





Once in a while I do something smart and that happened last week. I bought a Milwaukee 3/8" reversable close quarters drill. I got it on eBay used and for a good price. It is practically new and I paid less than half of new. I had brought home a right angle drill from a local home store but knew even before I got it home that I wasn't going to be happy with it. The Milwaukee is a good tool and having the angled drill makes the wire brush work so much easier. It's a lot quieter than the regular drill I had been using and it's much easier to hold and see what I'm doing. There is a similar model with a larger paddle style handle but when I was reading the reviews several people mentioned the large paddle handle was too easy to turn on accidentally. The one I got has a large trigger. It's good to have an excuse to buy tools.


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## bobberboy (Jul 10, 2014)

A lot of pictures tonight.

The old transom was 1-1/4" thick so I made the new one from a piece of 3/4" and a piece of 1/2" ACX plywood. I had to make separate templates for each piece - the curve at the back just before the transom went in about 3/4" within the thickness of the transom. Hope that makes sense. You can see on the old transom that the upper third was exposed and visible inside the boat. Because I am going to make the wooden trim from mahogany I wanted this visible part to be mahogany as well.

For the most part what I am doing isn't anything new or special - just laminating up some wood and fitting it. There are a couple of things worth noting and I'll point them out as I go.

The old transom. You can see the exposed parts on the right.





The next pics are cutting and fitting. The back half...









and the bottom of the inside half...









The laminating was straight-forward. Waterproof glue and lots of clamps. I didn't have any clamps with deep enough throats to clamp the recessed edge of the 1/2" plywood so I improvised. I used a bowed 2x4 and clamped it along the recessed edge with the bow facing down. When clamped at the ends the bow puts pressure on the joint along its entire length. And to give additional pressure I also placed some shims between the 2x4 and the plywood. I left the clamps on for 24 hours.





With the shims...the dark line isn't a gap only my pencil line from registering the two pieces before I glued them together.





Step 1 done.





My mahogany board was 3/4" thick and needed to be planed to match the 1/2" plywood...






Next was to glue the mahogany again with waterproof glue and lots of clamps. I ran out of clamps and had to use a vice grip for the last one. As before I didn't have deep enough clamps and spanned the joint with 1x4's and this time cardboard shims to apply pressure.









Step 2 done.





Next I rough cut the mahogany and made a woodshop 101 mistake to begin with. I used a saber saw to cut the mahogany to shape. A saber saw like a circular saw cuts on the up-stroke against the bed of the tool. When cutting from the face or finish side across the grain the blade pulls the wood fibers up. With almost all woods this produces a raggedy edge. The trick is to score along the cut line first with a utility knife and then saw. You can see the difference after I'd remembered what I should have been doing. In this case it probably didn't matter but it will later as I'm fitting more exposed joints together and was a good reminder.









At this point the fussy work began. I filled the edges all around with Bondo then began a lot of work with the belt sander. It took around a dozen fittings before the match to the inside of the hull was good. Once the fit was good I could mark the cut-out to match the aluminum. 

You can see the radius at the back where the side and transom meet and the Bondo at the top edge..





Once the cuts were right some final belt sander work was needed to get the angle of the top to match that of the transom-to-boat angle. After some trial and error and fooling around I figured out the angle. It's hard to see on the pic but I clamped a piece of flat stock steel to each side of the transom. The inside one was about 1/4" lower and was the inner, lower edge of the top. I used the belt sander and sanded down until the edges of the steel were shiny and I knew I'd gone far enough. For the curves I used a drum sander on an electric drill and eyeballed it.









And the finished piece...





I'm in the process of coating it with two-part resin - two coats each side and four on the edges. My rivets arrived today but I'm going to give it several days to cure.

Before long I have to make a decision about the floor. I can't make up my mind whether I am going to make a flat floor or follow the curvature of the boat. There is a case to be made for each. The flat floor is easier to work from for the rest of the interior. It also would provide a cavity to run wires and a lot of room for floatation. The curved bottom would lower the overall center of gravity and the passengers would be seated about 5"+or- lower than with a flat floor. I'm sure there are other arguments both ways and I'd appreciate any opinions.

I pulled some strings to show the location of a flat floor.


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## Kismet (Jul 11, 2014)

You got some "craftsman blood" in you. Nice, well-thought out, and patient work is reflected in the end result.

_(go for the lower floor.)_

=D>


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## zipperer (Jul 13, 2014)

It looks like in the old pictures it had a false floor . That would ad strength and you would need it with 40 horse on it.


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## bobberboy (Jul 13, 2014)

Much of the work of the PO was false so I suppose that could include the floor. The old floor was decomposed to the point that I didn't have to remove the screws until _after_ the floor had been removed. Also, I think a certain amount came out along I70 and I35 on the way home from Denver. I don't know if I have mentioned it but it turns out that all the seams are welded. The chines and spray rails were then riveted over the seams so from the outside it looks like a riveted boat. The USCG plate on the inside rates it for a 40 hp so I am assuming the boat won't come apart at speed. I plan to put a floor back in it, I just don't yet know whether it will be flat or curved.


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## bobberboy (Jul 21, 2014)

I have just a little to add today. I am finally beginning to do some things to put the boat back together. Over the weekend I painted the splash well and stuck it and the new transom in the boat just to get a preview of things to come. I think it's going to look good and I'm getting excited to see some paint being put on the boat rather than taking it off.













I tried this Rust Oleum paint for the inside. Don't have a pic of the finished product but I know you have to put it on pretty heavy in order for the "hammered" affect to work. I'm worried that on the insides it will run down the vertical surfaces because it has to be so thick. I'm not sure yet what I will do.





Part of my decisions for the interior also include what kind of seats to use. I found these used seats for a pretty good price on C'sL over the weekend. They'd be perfect except they require an open interior rather than the cockpits I want to make. The color is perfect. I thought to separate them but don't know if I could do so without ruining them.





Making bench seats similar to these would be an easy project out of mahogany and would be fitting with the vintage of the boat. I think nowadays people expect to have their rears riding on cushioned seats. I could make bench seats and have cushions like throw cushions made but at what $ I don't know. Maybe making bench seats and letting the next owner deal with the cushions would be ok.





I'm not getting much feedback about my dilemmas - appreciate any suggestions, criticisms or insights...


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## rscottp (Jul 21, 2014)

Looks like you could split the seats without too much trouble. That base is probably what is holding it together. You would have to find something to cover the outside backs with.


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## ccm (Jul 21, 2014)

The project is coming along nicely! Beautiful work on the new transom. Me personally I like the idea of the cockpits in the original 60's style. Not to long ago I saw a restored/modified mahogany wooden runabout. It was a nice boat & on the original benches it had nice bucket seats mounted to them, it looked clean & professional not something that looked tacky or anything like that. There are endless options such as just plain wooden benches ( letting the next owner deal with cushioned seats ), mounting nice bucket/fold over seats onto the benches, making snap in/out cushions type 60's style seats for the benches, or having an upholstery shop make a custom set of cushions/seats. Just throwing some ideas your way but I'm sure whatever you choose to do it will turn out great because you have great craftsmanship. Great project can't wait to see more!


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## bobberboy (Jul 23, 2014)

A couple of things to add. 

I spent all of yesterday trying to get the rest of the interior of the boat stripped. It has been a hit-or-miss deal for the past few weeks, doing a little when the mood strikes me. I want to get it finished today if possible then power wash and see what it looks like. I may post a pic just for the "before and after" but it's going to just be shiny aluminum (I hope).

I've been looking ahead to some of the details and have a question. I have all the old cable steering parts and with new cable could just replace that system. I am wondering whether I should find a good used telescopic steering system instead. I don't really care if the steering is vintage to the boat or not, just mostly about how well it works. What I've got is paid for and there's something to be said for that. I just don't have any experience with steering systems for boats. All the pulleys, springs, etc. from the original seem to be good. Just don't know what's best.

There is a behind the scenes dynamic going on with the project I haven't mentioned. As I said at the beginning I can't keep the boat. I was hoping to give it to a family member but, like when tomatoes come in during a bumper year and your friends stop answering your calls, my family runs away when they see me coming. I'm not sure what's the deal, mostly storage issues I guess. I think too they don't share my love of vintage boats. I think it may partly be vision too. The thing looks like a wreck and it's hard to believe it'll ever be anything else than a boat-shaped pile of junk. My brother was my first choice but he's not been too interested. I've shopped it around to other family members but no one's interested. It's an important question for me as who gets it impacts how much $ I'm willing to put into it. If a family member I'll be ok with spending more. If I have to sell it I'll never come close to recouping what I've got into it and will probably make decisions based on money. Well, over the weekend my brother was down and we spent some time looking at the boat. I was able to show him some of the work I've done to start to put the thing back together. Suddenly he told me he getting interested in this boat! We talked about some of the variations possible and at one point he was even talking about making it an inboard using a motorcycle engine (he rebuilds 60's-70's motorcycles). Aha! The fish sees the bait. Now, if I'm a patient angler, I'll play the bait and maybe I can boat this boy. Time will tell.


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## Kismet (Jul 23, 2014)

The behind-the-scenes dynamic is interesting. I think you are rehabbing a great piece of American Waterway History. Folks may come around when they can see prize, and not just the process.

I've always had a very limited budget, so best-for-less had to be a standard, and I'd shop a lot before getting items. (It is actually reassuring to me that you think you might lose money if you have to sell it; in all but one of the rehabs I've done, I've lost money.  I thought it was _me_.)

I'd keep the old steering system, given the question marks that exist on future ownership. I'm pretty sure those seats were made individually and then put together, so they probably can be taken apart intact. The backs of the quadruple might be unfinished, but a staple gun and some vinyl can fix that.

I think you are demonstrating superior craftsmanship,and should take some pride in what you're doing.

=D> =D> =D>


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## bobberboy (Jul 23, 2014)

.
Kismet, thanks for the above. 

I think I'm going to go with wooden bench seats which will be a bit like the original. I want to keep the cockpits and will make a split seat in front and a bench seat across the back. Mahogany slats and mahogany book-matched plywood for the large areas. I'll cover it with resin and it'll outlast me by a generation. This is stuff I can fabricate on rainy days outside of the boat and install when it's done. Also, my skills are with wood and I should use them rather than pay for metalwork or upholstery.


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## sworrior (Jul 23, 2014)

Great build. How does mahogany hold up to the weather? I have several 8/4 White Oak boards and some 4/4 Sapele, but prefer Mahogany a transom after seeing your build. May have to take a trip to the mill.

Why did you waterproof with resin vice a spar varnish? Just curious if I need to head back to Rockler for a return.

What type of [CAD?] program did you use for your mock up in the last post? I'm lucky I could turn the computer on, but I'd like to be able to more effectively communicate my boat ideas and that looks like just the ticket!

Superb progress so far.


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## bobberboy (Jul 23, 2014)

I believe mahogany is common enough in boat building. Because it grows in wet environments it stands up well to moisture. I guess teak is probably the wood of choice but I happen to like the mahogany and it is what had been used in the boat previously. It machines well and is readily available. It is relatively open grained and compared to oak is soft. It takes stain well and evenly, soaking deep into the open pores - especially compared to woods like birch and maple - staining is easy to do. 

I'm not really a wooden boat guy but I believe with spar varnish you have to expect a certain amount of maintenance in the future. The transom is so hard to replace that I just figured coating in resin should make it last until the end of days. I'm not a resin guy either but thought it was the best chance at keeping the water out. If I do a good job of sealing all those rivet holes and any other misc screw holes along the way I figure it should last. Given how many holes there were in the old one and how relatively good it was after 50 years of abuse I should be good to go. I don't know about UV though. Someone here probably does.

The CAD program is called MacDraft Pro and as you might suspect it is for Macs. I've used some version of it for almost two decades. To call it a CAD program slightly glorifies it - compared to AutoCad it's pretty basic. It does do a good job with simple 2-D drawings and I've been very happy with it for my needs at work and other projects. I can also import pics and draw over them which is often useful.


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## bobberboy (Jul 24, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=360659#p360659 said:


> sworrior » Yesterday, 14:21[/url]"]Great build. How does mahogany hold up to the weather? I have several 8/4 White Oak boards and some 4/4 Sapele, but prefer Mahogany a transom after seeing your build. May have to take a trip to the mill.




I found this boat this morning on C'sL. The top is all mahogany and the configuration is similar to what I'm going to do. The color of the wood in the photo is quite yellow. That may be in the photograph, maybe some fading (the boat is a '57), yellowing of the varnish or all of the above. Sometimes mahogany can be light and tend towards yellow. That is typical of luan plywood but can also be found in some hardwood boards. I will go for the redder colors when I buy material for my project.


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## borntofish (Jul 24, 2014)

Hey bobberboy,
As a native of Minneapolis, I'm proud of you! I wish I had your skills (and tools). HaHa. I can't wait to see the next pics. Keep 'em comin'.


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## bobberboy (Jul 24, 2014)

Just for the record, I spent two very happy years in northern CA and wish I was there still - even in the summer. It didn't take a native Minnesotan long to figure out you don't have to shovel rain...
Thanks for the kind words.


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## bobberboy (Jul 28, 2014)

.
Since my last post I've finished stripping the inside of the boat. I power-washed then went back and did a little touch up stripping with a 2" wire brush to get into the corners where the larger one wouldn't. Finally I'm done taking crap off the boat and can start putting some back on. I wiped down the inside with mineral spirits so before I paint I will wash one last time with a grease removing detergent like Dawn, hose it down and then get some primer on. The area below the floor will get a coat of bed liner.





There was still a lot of gunk under the ribs.









I started looking around for aluminum for framing the floor. It's expensive so in order to keep the $ down I tried to figure a way around buying a lot of aluminum angle. I started to look on C'sL for aluminum and didn't have much luck. I got to thinking about what else made of aluminum I might use instead of buying angles. I hit on the idea of getting a used extension ladder if one could be had for a good price. I found a 16' one for $15 and decided to use it as a start and build from there. I originally was going to cut the rungs off which would leave me with four rails - basically light duty "I" beams. Once I got the two sections apart and put one into the boat I decided to try to use one section intact and see if I can build from there. I guess I should also say that I decided to go with the flat floor in order to be able to add enough floatation below and to make the building of the seats and other interior parts easier.









The eight foot section of ladder leaves me about three feet short of the transom. I hadn't planned to put a floor in the way-back because the gas cans will end up there and I will put foam in the remaining area for floatation.





Last thing was finally filling those two large holes in the hood. I epoxied a piece of aluminum below each hole and used the same two-part filler I have used on the other smaller holes. I got that sanded this afternoon too and will put a thin coat of Bondo over them and the other small holes with a final light sanding before I start to prime.


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## borntofish (Jul 29, 2014)

The ladder idea was pure genius! How will you atatch it to the floor? How will you brace the outer edges of the floor? This has been a lot of fun watching you. Keep it up.


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## bobberboy (Jul 30, 2014)

I spent a lot of time today looking at and thinking about how to make the framework for the floor. I found out that the bracing (ribs, etc.) aren't symmetrical. There are two problems with that - one is that I'm pretty anal and the other is that if I don't make the floor flat and the same distance down from the gunwales I am going to suffer later when it comes to installing the interior. If I make the floor flat and the distance down from the gunnels the same on both sides the interior pieces will be symmetrical and much easier to fit. So the first thing was to try to establish a distance down from the gunnels to the floor. I just used a piece of square tube steel laid on the gunnels and made my measurements down to points in the interior so I could begin to calculate the differences. The total difference from highest point to lowest point was 5/8". That much wouldn't matter if I was going to put in a floor and pedestal seats because there'd be nothing to show the difference. Because of all the wood I will be cutting for the cockpits and bulkheads it will matter.

First pic - measurements at the first rib to floor...





You can see in the next two pics that the front cross-piece is resting on the ribs but the second one (closed in the pic) is about 1/2" +or- above the ribs. I will shim this up when I attach it to the ribs and will reinforce it further (haven't figured that detail out yet).









I also sanded the Bondo fill on the hood and got a coat of primer on it to see how well the epoxy putty worked. I m very pleased...













That's about as close to a downtown bit of work as I can get. Very happy the epoxy putty worked so well as I have used it on about 50 other holes elsewhere on the boat.

Also saw something that's important to pass along. Almost every week someone writes in to the forum to ask about removing seats and the structural implications. I had not noticed before today some evidence of why not to take out all the structure. This boat is 14'. The bench seats had long ago been removed and there was nothing tying the boat together side-to-side from the dashboard all the way to the transom. This is nearly 10' of unsupported sides. You can see on the following three pics how the stress on the gunwales from not being supported has cracked them. The cracks are immediately aft of the dashboard, the only structure holding the sides together. There's no question about why the gunwales cracked and where it happened. Pretty good evidence of how important the seats are in the structure of the boat.

Starboard side





Port side





Port side close up





More later...


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## sworrior (Jul 30, 2014)

Completely solved the seats vs floor space dilemma for my build. The seats stay! Thanks.


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## bobberboy (Aug 2, 2014)

Most of the last few days have been spent doing all kinds of stuff I didn't want to do. Today was supposed to be spent on the boat but major interruptions took up most of the day. Also, I can't figure out how I want to frame the floor so instead of dealing with that question I practiced avoidance - again. Last fall I threw the trailer together in order to get the boat on it and put away before the snow flew. I have a lot of details to finish including the wiring and carpeting/adjusting the bunks so I tried to focus on some of that today. But as I said, lots of interruptions. 

In order to work on the trailer I had to get the boat off it so, in the spirit of my caveman ancestors, I lifted and grunted and got it up on saw horses and two-bys. Pretty horsey but it worked. Slipped the trailer out from underneath and got a little done. In my next life I'm going to have a big shop with good lighting and a gantry or overhead something-or-another or at least some stringers that I can use to do this kind of thing. I don't think I would have done this except the boat is completely empty.

I've been forgetting to mention, I think the boat might be named _The Silk Purse_

Hopefully some more work tomorrow...


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## bobberboy (Aug 5, 2014)

I finished framing the floor using the aluminum ladder and some misc. other aluminum I had around. The ladder was ok in theory - it was cheap and did a pretty good job down the middle but its usefulness for the rest was not as good. Used on edge it's fine but on the flat it's really not that structural. In the way I used it it's going to be fine but not beautiful...had I been doing a deck on a jon boat it would have been great as I could have used it all on edge for the stringers. As it was, I could only use it on edge down the middle due to the shallow depth of the floor. All in all, it'll work but not one of my proudest moments. Good thing for plywood going on top of it.









You can see in this pic what a contraption the thing is.





After all those hours cleaning the black crap out of the inside of the boat today I put black crap back in. I used two quarts of bed liner to paint the area that will be under the floor. I can't actually say why I did it, I guess because I see so many who do. It's going to be covered by foam and floor but I guess I thought it was a good way to seal the bottom from inside and make a good foundation to start from. The other thing is that in my never ending effort not to do things half-assed I often do things 2x-assed. Oh well, it's done. I'm going to let it cure for several days while I do some details elsewhere and on the trailer. Also going to visit my daughter for a few days.

This bed liner stuff is really foul. I can't believe the fumes didn't kill everything within a hundred foot radius - including me. I had a breeze, a fan going, I was working outside and still had to have a respirator. I first blew out everything with an air hose and then wiped with acetone and finally the bed liner. The fumes from the bed liner make those from the acetone seem mild in comparison. If you ever use the stuff don't even think about not using a respirator. You can't replace brain cells.









The next step inside is to attach the framing to the ribs, run a couple of empty conduits for wiring, fill the cavity with foam and put in the floor. I haven't put the new transom back in yet wither but now that I've thoroughly coated the bottom with the bed liner I can get to that too.


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## borntofish (Aug 5, 2014)

I would think the bed liner would make the hull quieter on the water. I think your ladder structure will add rigidity to the hull. I can't wait to see it finished. I would love to ride in it and chase some Walleyes. Your ambition is contagious!


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## Ail (Aug 7, 2014)

Man that is a slick boat. Love the concept, she will be a beaut.

The ladder may not be ideal, but for $15, man that's improvising on a budget. =D>


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## starcraft12 (Aug 8, 2014)

Kudos on the progress! Lovin' it. =D>


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## bobberboy (Aug 14, 2014)

A long-winded report this time...

I was gone for several days after the bed liner painting. That stuff is incredibly rude but luckily my brain's at a point in its life-span that loosing a few more cells didn't seem to have any major affect - at least none that showed (yet!). After five days of curing I took off the boat cover and there was practically no odor left. That made me feel better about having used it. So it was back to finish the floor framing and begin to add floatation.





I had to place some of the foam before I screwed the floor framing down. Once that was done I filled in the areas beneath and between the framing members gluing it all with PL300 foam glue.













I should back up a moment to say that as part of finishing the framing I added two conduits to the framing in order to make electrical runs from the front to the back of the boat. I used 1" PVC pipe tied to the long sides of the ladder with zip ties. At the front I drilled a hole into each web of the ladder and cut the PVC at 45° to create a passageway into the pipes as seen below.









You can see the hole near the bracket at the inside front left of the ladder.





And out the back. There won't be a floor in the back 30" to accommodate two gas cans and a battery.





Next was a cardboard template for the floor.





The floor needs to be about 56" wide at its widest point. Rather than take the time to hunt down a piece of 5'x9' plywood, and in order to use exterior glued material, I used a 4'x8' piece of ACX to which I had to add 8" to the width. In order to take advantage of the strength of the plywood in combination with the framing I decided to add the 8" strip in the center of the plywood. This seems counter-intuitive and kind of crazy but the way the framing worked out there is more strength at the middle than at the edges. I was worried that adding a strip to the edge of the sheet would create a weak area along the joints on both sides. Adding the strip in the center places the weakest areas (the joints) along the strongest part of the framing and the area where I can put the most fasteners. So, crazy or not here's what I did.

This may be TMI for this thread but there may be some out there who would be interested in how edge joining is done. I must say at the start that if this was good hardwood I would have had to take better care in how I handled and clamped the boards. In this case because it's plywood and will be covered with carpet I was only interested in making a good glue joint and not in being meticulous about how it was done.

There are several ways to make edge joints. Using a biscuit joiner is popular these days, and there is the more traditional dowel which is what I used. There is also a spline joint which essentially creates a two-sided tongue-and-groove joint but with plywood it is really not ideal (fine when manufactured that way, not so easy once the plywood becomes warped after the fact). 

I used dowels because I think they're more accurate, at least for me they seem to work better. The biscuit joiner requires the operator to always be paying attention that the tool is flat and firmly on top of the material being joined - otherwise a sloppy joint will occur. The dowel process uses a self-centering jig that insures the hole is always in the center of the edge of the boards being joined.

The jig has several holes for different sized drill bits. I used 3/8" bit and dowels. You can see on the side of the jig the numbers stamped into the jig indicating the drill size. What you cant see in the scribe mark indicating the center of the hole.













To begin I clamped the two edges together that I was joining. It's important to take this step when marking out the holes. I used a square and drew a line across the joint on 16" centers and 2" in from each edge. This gave me accurate lines for each half of the joint to align the dowel jig to. Do this carefully and accurately and the thing goes together easily. Do a sloppy job and you won't be able to bring the two sides together no matter how much cursing you do. It's important.



 



 

So you set the jig with the scribe mark aligned to the pencil mark for each hole, tighten and drill.









And as they say, "viola", a perfectly centered hole.





I should note that you shouldn't drill the holes too deep or you'll drive the dowel too far into one side of the joint. Drill them too shallow and you won't be able to bring the joint together. Take your time, do it carefully. The dowels I used were 2" deep so I drilled each hole about 1-1/8" deep. You can make your own dowels from stock dowels but I prefer the pre-made fluted ones. The fluted ones allow the glue and air to escape as you drive the dowel into the hole making for a better more solid seating of the dowel. 

Once the holes were drilled I squeezed some waterproof glue into the holes of the narrow side and seated the dowels, wiping off any glue that worked its way to the surface.









Once all the dowels are seated in one side of the joint, you squeeze glue into the opposite set of holes and glue one edge of the plywood. I glued the narrower half that I had already installed the dowels into. Once you've glued the edge (on a real project you'd glue both edges) it's time to put the two together. I aligned the dowels with the holes and with the aid of four pipe clamps slowly brought the two halves together, working from end to end about 1/4" at a time. Once The two halves were together I repositioned the clamps and really tightened them. 





There is a tendency for the pressure of the clamps to cup the joint in the direction of the clamp - in this case up. In a real shop you'd have enough clamps to use an equal number on eace face of the joint making the pressure equal and keeping the joint flat. In my garage/outdoor "shop" I improvise a lot. I used a 2x4 along the length of the joint and clamped it to the plywood. This put pressure against the downward force of the clamps and straightened out the joint at each end. For the middle I clamped boards cross-wise and that flattened the joint. Even though it should be obvious, the edges of the boards need to be at 90° to the surface or you'll never make a flat joint. Even a degree counts as a degree on each side makes a total of two degrees off. 













Ok that's it. Sorry for the long post. Tomorrow the other half of the joint and then cutting out the floor.


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## Ail (Aug 15, 2014)

That dowel jig is mighty handy, and that looks like a solid joint. Well done. Being able to improvise and still get to where you want is necessity for a true DIY craftsman. :mrgreen:


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## SaltyGhost (Aug 15, 2014)

It's coming along great. I love boats that have the windshield all the way in the front. Very few new boats have this design which is a shame. It's real nice when the temp drops and you still want to go boating. You won't freeze to death from the wind when going fast.

:idea: I would recommend using a 2-part marine epoxy to glue-up wood for a boat. That titebond III wood glue says its waterproof but it's not really made for marine environments. It's not submersible, which may be OK, but if your boat gets a bunch of water in it for any length of time the glue will fail. I like the 5-minute stuff because it sets-up quick and is usable in less than an hour. You can but it at any decent hardware store.


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## bobberboy (Aug 15, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363400#p363400 said:


> SaltyGhost » 22 minutes ago[/url]"]It's coming along great. I love boats that have the windshield all the way in the front. Very few new boats have this design which is a shame. It's real nice when the temp drops and you still want to go boating. You won't freeze to death from the wind when going fast.
> 
> :idea: I would recommend using a 2-part marine epoxy to glue-up wood for a boat. That titebond III wood glue says its waterproof but it's not really made for marine environments. It's not submersible, which may be OK, but if your boat gets a bunch of water in it for any length of time the glue will fail. I like the 5-minute stuff because it sets-up quick and is usable in less than an hour. You can but it at any decent hardware store.



Hopefully the Titebond will be ok. I'm planning to use 2-part resin to coat the flooring and hope it will keep water out but you can never be sure I guess. If some future owner likes to boat in the rain or stores it uncovered then all my work will be for nothing anyway.

One thing that concerns me about the 2-part epoxy glue is the fast setup time. It can sometimes take me more than 5 minutes and even up to 10 before I have all the clamps and various braces in place. I have used epoxy before where the joints come together quickly but in this case thought I needed a little more time. I still have a lot of wood joints to do so I will look into the epoxy question more carefully. If I can find something with a slower setup time that may be the ticket. Thanks for the heads up.


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## jasper60103 (Aug 15, 2014)

Bobberboy,
I enjoy reading your threads and the meticulous care to every detail. This was demonstrated in your two prior builds as well. Don't ever feel its TMI for this forum. Keep up the great work! =D> 

jasper


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## borntofish (Aug 16, 2014)

THANKS FOR THEE GREAT EDUCATION!! I'm enjoying this very much. Not "TMI".


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## bobberboy (Aug 17, 2014)

Part of learning is making mistakes and it's good to be up front about them. Sometimes they make better reading than the successes too.

So I glued the other half of the floor on and did what comes naturally to a woodworker and got the saw out. I'll review the thinking:

Got the rest of the plywood glued together and prepared to transfer the template to it. The template was made on top of the aluminum framing and so represented the _bottom_ of the plywood. So, turned the plywood _upside down_ and put the template on it _upside down_ and traced around it. Mind you, I made the cardboard template to within 1/8" of the boat's interior profile. Understanding that the sides of the boat flare out and away from where the template I set my saber saw at an angle and cut so the top face of the plywood would be _wider_ than the bottom and thus taking into account the different profile of the interior at the level of the framing versus 3/4" _above_ the framing. I cut, I turned it over, I placed it in the boat and it didn't fit. Not even close. It was as if I had my eyes closed or had made the template for some other boat or I had used my good friend the Auto-beaver (patent pending) to do the cutting. Dang it anyway.





I did a lot of looking, a lot of taking it out and cutting and adjusting of angles but it just never fit right. I put it aside for a day and went back and decided to take a different tack. All the things I did made sense, I think.

There are a couple of things I didn't think through completely and they caused problems. First of all were the angles of the sides. In a jon boat, the angle of the sides from front to back is relatively straight compared to a V-bottom which has a much more distinct curve to it. The sides of the jon boat go out from bottom to top at a relatively consistent angle compared to those of a V-bottom boat. The geometry of the jon is simpler, easier to understand and predict whereas the V-bottom boat's curve is compound, changing as it goes up and forward. At the back end of the plywood the V-bottom's sides are almost 90° to that of the floor. At a foot or so forward of that, the sides are somewhere 15° off and by the time you get to the front the angle is probably somewhere around 60° off. The other problem is the thing was too big to manage and too big to be able to accurately see underneath where it fit and didn't fit. 

I don't know how I went stupid and I don't still know what went wrong. I know guys put decks in V-bottom boats all the time and there are about a thousand threads on this site to prove it. So anyway, I went back and cut those carefully made joints apart. I'm now going to fit each side first, making the space between them parallel and after I've made them fit correctly I will rejoin each half. But not until I've got a day or two of fishing in.


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## Ail (Aug 17, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363591#p363591 said:


> bobberboy » 17 Aug 2014, 18:59[/url]"]Part of learning is making mistakes and it's good to be up front about them. Sometimes they make better reading than the successes too.
> 
> So I glued the other half of the floor on and did what comes naturally to a woodworker and got the saw out. I'll review the thinking:
> 
> ...



Not that I like to hear about anyone failing, as I only hope for the greatest of successes for all of my fellow boat builders and re-modelers on the web, but I am glad to see I am not the only one making mistakes this weekend. It makes me feel a little better I guess. It happens to the best of us. A few days of fishing should get you right back where you left off. It's good to take a step back, or walk away altogether sometimes.

Enjoy the angling!


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## Edintampa (Aug 17, 2014)

The same thing happened to me when I did the decking on my 14' V bottom StarCraft. Cardboard template, double check it. Cut the cardboard, laid it on the plywood cut it 1/4 " less to be sure.....nada, nope it was still too big. Never figured out why just keep cutting a little off at a time till it did fit. 

At least you had some idea of why.....

Ed


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## Y_J (Aug 17, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363603#p363603 said:


> Edintampa » August 17th, 2014, 9:27 pm[/url]"]The same thing happened to me when I did the decking on my 14' V bottom StarCraft. Cardboard template, double check it. Cut the cardboard, laid it on the plywood cut it 1/4 " less to be sure.....nada, nope it was still too big. Never figured out why just keep cutting a little off at a time till it did fit.
> 
> At least you had some idea of why.....
> 
> Ed


OK. Now ya'll starting to scare me here... I'm just now getting into the process of planning the framing for under the floor and decks on my 12' V bottom. Then will come the cardboard template. Giving me a minds eye picture of what I have to look forward to... Ugggg.


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## Kismet (Aug 17, 2014)

Rule of Life, number 7129:

*"Things go wonky, by the very nature of doing things."*​


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## bobberboy (Aug 18, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363617#p363617 said:


> Y_J » Yesterday, 21:52[/url]"]
> 
> 
> [url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363603#p363603 said:
> ...



People are doing this all the time so don't stress about it. Mine went wrong (I believe) because I was so focused on making the floor as a single piece I didn't see how difficult it would be to handle it and work with it. Another approach would be to finish the floor/deck framing and then cut strips of whatever thickness of material you intend to use for the surface, put the strips on the framing and work the cardboard template from there. In this way you'd be working from the top side of the floor/deck with your template. Wen you cut the shape you'd angle the cut in rather than out as you'd need to do if you were working from the bottom. If the angle wasn't right it will never show from above and doesn't matter from below. I may also have had too high expectations for what constitutes a "close enough" fit. Carpet will fill a 1/4" gap if you wrap the edge. I had some gaps that were considerably bigger - not big enough to lose your two year-old through but too big to be good enough. It wasn't the "cut it twice and it was still too short" problem either which is why I was so surprised at the results. But look, it's a piece of plywood and not something really important. With some more time I can still make it work and with the strip of plywood I so painstakingly added to the floor I'll make the strips to put on the framing and rework my template to fit the top of the floor. It's no biggie in the scheme of things.


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## Y_J (Aug 18, 2014)

Right on.. I expect to make some mistakes here and there, as this is my first rebuild. And to make things worse this boat is beat up bad enough as it is. LOL So I'm trying to make a decent looking boat out of a pile of camel dung. Leave it to me to opt for the downtrodden.


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## bobberboy (Aug 18, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=363724#p363724 said:


> Y_J » 3 minutes ago[/url]"]Right on.. I expect to make some mistakes here and there, as this is my first rebuild. And to make things worse this boat is beat up bad enough as it is. LOL So I'm trying to make a decent looking boat out of a pile of camel dung. Leave it to me to opt for the downtrodden.



A lot of people here are doing as you are. Better to make something out of nothing than the other way around...


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## bobberboy (Aug 19, 2014)

It's a measure of my frustration that I was reduced to taking my own advice re the floor. As I suggested to Y_J, I cut strips of the 3/4 plywood I'm using for the floor, tied them to the top of the framing and remade my cardboard templates from there. I also was working with the two sides separately, fitting each one individually which was much easier. I remade the template, recut the plywood, fit it in the boat, scribed it against the sides and with one more minor trim was done. So simple. Working from above is the ticket. The carpet will fill the gap nicely and Bob's your uncle. The fit isn't Armani but good enough to wear to church.













The original piece in the middle was 8" and it's now 9-1/2". Tomorrow I'll do that bit all over again. Once the floor's finished some interesting work can begin on creating the cockpits, seats etc.


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## Kismet (Aug 19, 2014)

"reduced to following your own advice."....... :lol: #-o :lol: 

ah, the indignity of it all.


nice work.


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## bobberboy (Aug 22, 2014)

Floor's in with a coat of resin.


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## bobberboy (Sep 2, 2014)

Finally got the transom back in. I've been avoiding it. First, I didn't want to drill holes into it. After all of the work and all the concern with making it as waterproof as possible it was hard to start drilling holes into it. Also I didn't want to try out the air hammer I bought and ruin all the work I did. I did some practicing with the air hammer and determined I wasn't ready for the pro rivet circuit.

I had to do things a little out of order. Once I replace the splash-well I won't have easy access to the area under it so I needed to some things on the transom first. Also, some of the rivets go through the splash-well so I had to do a partial installation and then will finish it once I've got the splash-well ready to go.

The transom wasn't an exact fit and there was a gap all around the edges between it and the hull. I wanted to fill that to make a solid connection and to eliminate areas where water can collect. In order to do so I had to get the transom in place and keep it there until I was ready for the rivets. I decided to use waterproof construction adhesive and glue the transom in place. I put a heavy bead on the inside corner where the transom and hull meet. I also put in a 2" strip of marine epoxy along the top of the transom that would glue it to the aluminum and help keep water from creeping in from the top. Whether this proves to be a good idea remains to be seen. The aluminum of the hull is much more subject to expansion and contraction than the wood of the transom and that may crack the aluminum free from the wood. I don't know what happened to my pics of this step. They seem to have disappeared. Anyway, I clamped along the top of the transom and drove wedges between the bottom inside and the stringers to hold it in place until the glues had cured. I left a trough approximately 3/8" deep on the inside edge to be able to finish the joint once the glues cured. To control the mess I taped off the bottom and sides of the boat and used a marine epoxy putty to fill the gap minus where the mahogany is. Because the mahogany will be visible I just used an exterior caulk that color matched the mahogany. 













Next I taped off and painted the bottom of the transom with the bed liner. The joint between boat and transom is pretty well sealed now.









At this point I had to decide about the rivets and I decided not to use them. I was pretty horrified by my practice attempts and didn't want to go public with my bad work and I was concerned that the hammering of the air hammer would shake loose the joint I had so carefully tried to create between the transom and hull. So, after having bought the whole riveting setup I went out for SS bolts. I used 1/4-20 SS carriage bolts with SS washers and SS stop nuts. I used 3M 5200 sealant liberally under the head of the bolt and also under the washer on the inside and installed all the bolts that don't need to go through the splash-well.

I also had to decide whether to replace the 2" angles that were previously used between the stringers and the transom. I'm not sure how much good they'll do but decided to put them back anyway. Instead of putting them under the stringer as they had been I installed them on top. One of the reasons the old transom rotted was that these brackets prevented water from running along the back down to the drain hole. Putting them on top of the stringer leaves that space open and the water should now drain properly. I used some relatively big-assed 1/4"x3/8" pop rivets to attach the brackets to the stringer and some #10x1" brass screws from bracket to transom. Again with the 3M 5200 into the screw holes. Finally a last coat of bed liner over the bolts and brackets and this part of the transom installation is done.

















Next I have to do some interior finishing at the rear before I can put the splash-well back in. This will be some paint and more floatation foam. This would also be the time to make whatever frame will hold the gas cans as it will be much easier before the splash-well is in the way. 

I wonder if anyone has ever kept track of _all_ the costs of rebuilding their boat? Yesterday was a prime example of how fast things add up. Went to get 12 brass screws - [email protected] Went to get a can of spray bed liner $12.00 +or-. Two days before all the SS nuts/bolts/washers were around $42. It's amazing how much the little things cost. You think of the major costs of the project, a couple pieces of plywood, some carpet or aluminum framing parts but it's all the miscellaneous stuff where the real costs can add up. I've got so much into this thing and still have a long way to go.


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## Kismet (Sep 2, 2014)

> kept track of all the costs of rebuilding their boat?



Yes. I believe unless someone gives a free boat/trailer AND money, I couldn't do even my crude rehabs on the old fishing hulls I've worked on, and only lose a LITTLE money.

Last project was as bare-bones as I could make it, and discounting the hours of labor, I was quite proud to only lose $75 on the completed project. 

btw, no one has given free anythings. :roll: 

You are doing masterful work and creating a museum quality rehab. Funding should not be a consideration.

_ (Just keep telling yourself that...sort of like self-hypnosis)_


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## Ail (Sep 2, 2014)

I started to keep track until the number got high enough to make me physically ill. #-o 

I know it would cost me much less next time since there would be less mistakes and extra product left over from this rebuild.


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## Y_J (Sep 3, 2014)

LOL.. Then there's the ones where you have to buy the tools to do it with on top of all the materials. I've now got more $$$ into the tools and tool accessories than I paid for the boat and motor. UGGGGG. I started right out the gate by keeping all the receipts but now I"m afraid to add them all up. And I've hardly even began. Still working on getting the old paint off and the cracks welded. The last few days though my garden project has gotten in the way of the boat project. Have to get four more beds rototilled and cleared for the fall plantings and time is running out. I think tomorrow I'll work on the boat just so I can feel like I've done something


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## bobberboy (Sep 8, 2014)

Some progress. I decided to make the platform for the gas tank and battery from plywood. Covered it with resin and bed liner. 









Screwed it to the stringers...









and a practice fit of the splash well. Lots of holes to drill through the transom that have to match up on the inside.


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## Edintampa (Sep 14, 2014)

Bobber, 

Great build you have going on there. What resin and bed liner are you using? 

Ed


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## bobberboy (Sep 16, 2014)

[url=https://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?p=366222#p366222 said:


> Edintampa » 14 Sep 2014, 22:09[/url]"]Bobber,
> 
> Great build you have going on there. What resin and bed liner are you using?
> 
> Ed



I got both at the NAPA store. The bed liner is Duplicolor. It is incredibly foul and in spite of what the label says it does chip. The resin is Bondo fiberglass resin. The label says it's the same resin used to build fiberglass boats. I've been told on this forum it won't. I don't know why not but so far I've only used it on areas that are mostly protected from direct exposure. I have to explore this question further.


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## Ail (Sep 16, 2014)

If I remember correctly I think they were saying fiberglass resin, on its own, was not a good choice for lamenting plywood or other surfaces because it is brittle, leading to cracking and chipping. Epoxy resin is strong on its own and does not need structural reinforcement like fiberglass resin does to create a durable coating. Fiberglass resin is used in conjunction with fiberglass cloth to build and repair boats. Although nowadays many builders are just using epoxy for everything.

At least I think that is what they were trying to convey.


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## bobberboy (Sep 20, 2014)

[url=https://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?p=366369#p366369 said:


> Ail » 16 Sep 2014, 18:15[/url]"]If I remember correctly I think they were saying fiberglass resin, on its own, was not a good choice for lamenting plywood or other surfaces because it is brittle, leading to cracking and chipping. Epoxy resin is strong on its own and does not need structural reinforcement like fiberglass resin does to create a durable coating. Fiberglass resin is used in conjunction with fiberglass cloth to build and repair boats. Although nowadays many builders are just using epoxy for everything.
> 
> At least I think that is what they were trying to convey.



Thanks for that. I wasn't sure what the problem was exactly but it makes sense now. I have already confirmed the cracking from working on the transom. So the fiberglass matting is the structural element and the resin the vehicle gluing it all together. Fortunately I have used it only in places that it may not become an issue. The floorboard under the carpet should be fine and the transom only has two small exposed areas and shouldn't be a problem either.


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## bobberboy (Sep 20, 2014)

Update. I've made a little progress with a bit of a hiccup. I've finally installed the splash-well. I had to get over drilling through the new transom but also because of the way the whole thing went together had to figure out the steps I needed to take. Some bolts only went through the stern and transom while others went through the stern, transom and splash-well. I had to paint some areas first because my access would be lost once the splash-well was back in. Because several old bolt holes in the splash-well and the back of the boat had to align when I drilled new holes through the transom, I had to drill from the outsides to the center hoping they'd meet in the center. They did with only one near miss! 

So as I said above I chickened out with the rivets and used 10-24 SS machine screws to put the splash-well back in. I used 3M 5200 under the heads and then caulked the joint inside between the splash-well and the interior of the boat. I also sealed the edge where the rear of the splash-well met the transom with 5200 and clamped it until it had set. I think I did all I could to prevent or at least delay the deterioration of the transom. I hope it'll be good for a generation but for sure it will outlive me.









On the original there were aluminum caps made to cover the top edge of the transom. They were pretty flimsy and had been nailed on so when I removed them they were pretty much ruined. In hindsight I wish I had made some kind of mahogany cap or had made the top half of the transom of mahogany but it was too late. So I was faced with having to become a tin-bender of sorts to make new ones. I'm not too happy with the outcome but it is what it is and I have to move on or I'll never get this thing done.

The old caps were pretty thin but heavier than standard aluminum flashing. I found a small sheet of .025 aluminum at Menard's that I cut into 3" wide strips (scored several times with a utility knife and snapped for a clean edge). I assumed the original caps had not been pre-made but formed in place over the transom. I wanted to make them without nails this time and so attempted to hold the aluminum strips in place with my small arsenal of clamps. It seemed like a good idea but with all the angles and shapes involved the clamps were all kittywampus and I had trouble keeping them in place. I tried a variety of combinations but when I started to pound the aluminum to shape it the clamps inevitably shook lose and I finally gave it up for a lost cause.

Here's one of the original caps.





And the attempted clamping













In the end I had to do what I had to do and used SS screws to hold the aluminum strips in place but at least they stayed put when I was shaping them. I don't like the look of them and the fact that they created even more holes in the transom but given the skills and tools at hand I got over it. 

The shaping was fairly straight-forward once the strips were held in place. I used a variety of hammers and mallets I had around. A rubber mallet was most useful but I also had some jeweler's hammers that came in handy. The idea is to do the bending in a series of glancing blows with the mallet. You need to direct the force of the hammer away from the center to the edge. If you pound straight down or from the edge of the strip towards the center you might end up with a wrinkle or a badly fitting piece. Directing the blows from the center to the edge kind of drags the material away and down at the same time keeping the material tight as it bends down. I went the entire length of one side at a time working from each end to the curve at the center. You need to go slowly at the curve or the aluminum will crack. Working slowly, first one side then the other through a series of hammer blows will do the job.

















After shaping each piece I removed them and sharpened up the bends on a bench vise by clamping the edge into the vise and a little mallet work from above. With most of the work use as broad faced tool as you can. A broad face will make for a smoother finish whereas a small faced tool will end up making a series of dents rather than one long smooth bend. Don't use a steel hammer. A wooden, rubber, plastic or leather mallet is best and I think the rubber is best as it gives a little and doesn't leave hammer marks.





Last thing yesterday was to clean up the castings with a wire wheel. I used a clear enamel designed for engines to coat the bare aluminum in hopes it might prevent the surfaces from becoming oxidized again. It's also supposed to be gas and solvent resistant. We'll see.





I'm really going to have to put this thing away for the season soon. I've neglected all my house and yard projects all summer in hopes of getting the boat finished by Fall. Well, the first day of Fall found me with a long way to go on the boat and a long list of things I should get done before the snow flies. I did hear a long-range forecast yesterday that suggested an el nino winter with warmer than normal temps. If that's true I may be able to make more progress on the boat and still fulfill my house/yard duties. Again, we'll see.


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## jasper60103 (Sep 20, 2014)

Great work, Bobberboy!
Those transom caps look like factory made.

Also, I hear yah with Fall here, its a mad scramble to get things done.
I hope the weather holds out.
I'm hoping to get my roof replaced within the next few weeks.

jasper


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## bobberboy (Oct 4, 2014)

It's that time of year again and I've still got a long way to go. This ends year four on this project. See you in the spring.

CLOSED FOR THE SEASON.


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## Kismet (Oct 4, 2014)

It's been a productive year in the saga of the Sportsman.

Nice work, Sir.

See ya, next year.

=D>


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## bobberboy (May 28, 2015)

Took the tarp off my little project today - here I go again. I can't remember where I left off and what's next. I know I haven't decided how or with what to paint the inside. I haven't decided where to paint the blue or the white on the outside. I think I finished the fall by polishing out the outside as a way of avoiding making the above decisions. Welcome to year 5...!

UPDATE 5/28 
Forget year five. I've gotta let it go. I'm selling the boat. Please see https://forum.tinboats.net/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=38129 if you're interested.


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