# Is a flare gun in your car legal or not?



## Popeye (Jul 2, 2008)

On another forum I visit the following question was posed:

"Just wondering is it legal to keep a loaded flare gun in your truck or car, is this considered a firearm?"


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## Shinigami (Jul 2, 2008)

i think it counts as emergancy supplies, just dont point it at a cop ^.^


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## MARINE0341 (Jul 2, 2008)

Dont think it should be a problem, but it shouldnt be loaded until the moment comes to use it


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## Popeye (Jul 2, 2008)

Shinigami said:


> i think it counts as emergancy supplies, just dont point it at a cop ^.^



Emergency supplies if you're in a boat but a car? And pointing it at a cop (or anyone for that matter) is just plain stupid




MARINE0341 said:


> Dont think it should be a problem, but it shouldnt be loaded until the moment comes to use it



Personally I concur, but would an officer see it that way? I've heard that even a baseball bat in the car can be considered a concealed weapon.


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## Quackrstackr (Jul 2, 2008)

Just depends on where you are and if it is considered concealed.

Weapons in a vehicle are not against the law here unless concealed (ie: in plain view or in glove box are legal.. anywhere else is concealed.)

I would say that if it were concealed without a permit they would probably frown on it here unless the flare was kept in a separate location from the gun. If you had a ccw permit, you would be fine.


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## jkbirocz (Jul 2, 2008)

Just hang it from you rear view mirror, and you should be fine :wink: 

A concealed maglite, would be perfect too. 

I would be willing to bet that a loaded flare gun would be illegal in a car, a gun is very hard to define these days.


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## Popeye (Jul 2, 2008)

The original question was posed by an Illinois resident so I'm guessing we are looking at Illinois rules. The question was about a loaded flare gun in the car but he didn't specify in plain sight or not.


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## Tompatt (Jul 3, 2008)

i dont think its considered a concealed weapon.


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## Captain Ahab (Jul 3, 2008)

In Illinois it is illegal to "Carries or possesses in any vehicle" any sort of weapon (and a flare gun is a weapon) unless it is:_


(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a
person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card

From Chapter 38 §24-1 of the Illinois Crime Code_

I interprete this to include a flare gun if it is loaded and not stored in an enclosed container (and should be outside the immediate control of the occupants of the vehicle. (ie - having in a shoe box on teh seat next to you is a no no)

Keep the flare gun in the trunk - and unloaded. Why would you ever want a loaded flare gun in your car anyway??????

See: https://lawboat.blogspot.com/2006/04/is-flare-gun-weapon_17.html


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## DocWatson (Jul 3, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> In Illinois it is illegal to "Carries or possesses in any vehicle" any sort of weapon (and a flare gun is a weapon) unless it is:_
> 
> 
> (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
> ...



Did you have one of your paralegals look that up for you ??? :mrgreen: 

Really is just common sense. A flare gun is a gun and a deadly weapon. It has no practical use in a car and when transported should be handled just like any other firearm.


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## Jim (Jul 3, 2008)

Stop making fun of Tinboats unofficial lawyer. :mrgreen: 

I will send you a cease and decist.....cease and deaceased.....oh whatever......leave CAPTAIN alone. These guys know how to get the law and maniplute them to there advantage. :LOL2:


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## Captain Ahab (Jul 3, 2008)

DocWatson said:


> Did you have one of your paralegals look that up for you ??? :mrgreen:
> 
> Really is just common sense. A flare gun is a gun and a deadly weapon. It has no practical use in a car and when transported should be handled just like any other firearm.




Most laws are just common sense - but as Mark Twain said:

"Unfortunately, common sense is the least common of all the senses..."

Now go fishing! [-X


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## Popeye (Jul 3, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> DocWatson said:
> 
> 
> > Did you have one of your paralegals look that up for you ??? :mrgreen:
> ...



Common sense, true but the original question asked if it was ILLEGAL to transport a loaded flare gun in you car.



Captain Ahab said:


> In Illinois it is illegal to "Carries or possesses in any vehicle" any sort of weapon (and a flare gun is a weapon) unless it is:...



Not trying to be smat a$$ but technically a sharpened pencil could be a weapon, I have one in my truck now. I previously mentioned a baseball bat. My sister was stopped for speeding and was almost cited for having a concealed weapon in her car because of a baseball bat. The only reason the officer didn't give her a ticket was she was actually enroute to a softball game and in her team uniform.

I know that _I_ wouldn't carry a flare gun, loaded or unloaded in my car. If I wanted to transport it inside me vehicle, it would be in the trunk. Just thought maybe someone knew a cop for their point of view.

Hey, FishingCop. Where are you?


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## DocWatson (Jul 3, 2008)

flounderhead59 said:


> Captain Ahab said:
> 
> 
> > DocWatson said:
> ...



He's Fishing !!! :mrgreen:


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## hcsdchief (Jul 3, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> In Illinois it is illegal to "Carries or possesses in any vehicle" any sort of weapon (and a flare gun is a weapon) unless it is:_
> 
> 
> (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
> ...




I just want to add to Capt's info. In Illinois a loaded flare gun in a vehicle would be considered Aggravated Unlawful use of a Weapon, a class 4 Felony. And I'm sure would be frowned upon by most law enforcement. Of course, I don't know why you need a loaded flare gun in a vehicle to begin with. [-X


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## slim357 (Jul 3, 2008)

flounderhead59 said:


> Personally I concur, but would an officer see it that way? I've heard that even a baseball bat in the car can be considered a concealed weapon.


Kinda off topic but if you just have a baseball bat in your car with no glove or baseballs it will be considered a weapon, buddy of mine who plays baseball got a ticket for having just a bat in his car. (i think they took and keep his bat too cant remember)


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## Popeye (Jul 4, 2008)

Can't truely believe Aggravated Unlawful use of a Weapon for just having it in the car. Maybe something like Unlawful possession, but not use.


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## Quackrstackr (Jul 4, 2008)

hcsdchief said:


> Of course, I don't know why you need a loaded flare gun in a vehicle to begin with. [-X



What difference does it make? What's the difference between having one in a vehicle and having one in a boat? :roll: So long as he's not using it in the commission of a crime, it's nobody's business why he has it in there.


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## FishingCop (Jul 4, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> In Illinois it is illegal to "Carries or possesses in any vehicle" any sort of weapon (and a flare gun is a weapon) unless it is:_
> 
> 
> (i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
> ...




Captain Ahab has provided qoutes from Illinois statutes regarding carrying firearms in a vehicle. The "aggravating" factors mentioned will come into play if the offender meets certain other criteria - is a gang member, previously convicted of certain offenses, etc. (comes under Illinois Safe Community Act). 

The question of whether a flaregun is a firearm is more difficult. A flaregun is NOT a firearm, par se, but certainly could be used as one. Simialrly, a baseball bat is not a weapon/bludgeon, par se, but could be used as one. I would believe that a magistrate would be far more inclined to render an opinion on the flare gun being a firearm than he would a ball bat being a club. However, all of this is going to be decided on the merits of the circumstances. e.g., going to a ballgame, in uniform with a glove and bat would not raise to any unlawful act imaginable. The same ball bat, wrapped in tape or cut off shorter and hidden under the seat would certainly meet the criteria of a bludgeon (weapon). Also, a hunting knife is not a weapon, par se, but could be considered a dangerous weapon and charges could be brought depending on proving the intent of the person carrying it was to commit a crime or other unlawful act. There are many weapons in Illinois which are deemed unlawful simply by their makeup - e.g., a switchblade knife is illegal, whether used unlawfully or not; a blackjack and brass knuckles are also illegal to own, possess or carry.

Clear as mud, right? Anything (even the sharpened pencil) can be considered a dangerous weapon if used in a unlawful manner or if intent to use it unlawfully can be proven.

The case of the flare gun is no different - it is not a firearm, par se, but could easily fall into the dangerous weapon (or firearm) cartegory if used unlawfully. If simply being carried in a car, and an officer decided to arrest because it was loaded, the case would have to be proven by determining that the flare gun was, in fact, a firearm - or - by the intent or unlawful use of the flare gun. It is a very good question because of the nature of the flare gun - it operates like a firearm but it's inherent design is such, that it is NOT a firearm, it is an emergency warning device.

Well, you asked!!!!! This discussion could go on with many issues on both sides, but I just wanted to clarify Illinois laws regarding Capt Ahabs insertion and offer my opinion on the topic.

As an aside, I have been a police officer for over 30 years and the past 24 years a commander in charge of patrol and investigative divisions. I submitted my retirement papers on Wednesday - going to do more fishing and golfing in the very near future. So, does that mean that I (like Capt. Ahab) can consult and charge for these opinions??? :lol:


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## Waterwings (Jul 4, 2008)

> ...So, does that mean that I (like Capt. Ahab) can consult and charge for these opinions???



Don't know about that, but Congrats on your upcoming retirement! 8)


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## hcsdchief (Jul 4, 2008)

flounderhead59 said:


> Can't truely believe Aggravated Unlawful use of a Weapon for just having it in the car. Maybe something like Unlawful possession, but not use.



Just so everybody knows, I'm a Law Enforcement Officer in Illinois, so I'm not just making this stuff up.

Agg. Unlawful use of a weapon
A person commit s the offense when: carries on or about his or her person or in any vehicle or concealed on or about his or her person except when on her or her land or in his or her abode or fixed place of business any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm. or carries or possesses on any public street, alley, public land....
(a)any firearm possessed was uncased, loaded and immediately accessible...
(b)the firearm possessed was uncased, unloaded and the ammunition for the weapon was immediately accessible....

As far as the bat goes, it depends on other circumstances. Also, I'm not trying to offend anybody, I was just trying to answer the question the best way I could. And this law just pertains to Illinois.


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## hcsdchief (Jul 4, 2008)

Fishing cop, you must have been typing and posting your response while I was typing mine.
Congrats on your retirement =D> :lol: . And try and leave a few fish for the rest of us that are working.


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## Popeye (Jul 4, 2008)

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the inputs. I will pass this information on to the person that originated the question. Just want you all to know that I was not the originator. I do not even own a flare gun. Now, a sawed-off pistol gripped 12 ga. shotgun strapped to my sun visor is a different matter all together.


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## FishingCop (Jul 4, 2008)

flounderhead59 said:


> Thanks guys, I appreciate all the inputs. I will pass this information on to the person that originated the question. Just want you all to know that I was not the originator. I do not even own a flare gun. Now, a sawed-off pistol gripped 12 ga. shotgun strapped to my sun visor is a different matter all together.




Yeah, baby, Now I'm thinking that's a formidable self-defense weapon -- oh, BTW, you are definately going to spend jail time when caught with it (if not shot by some overly-agressive, new, rookie cop who is just a little too much paranoid) :lol: :lol: But hey, go for it....  

P.S. - of course I know you weren't serious (I think????) :wink: 

Also, back to hcsdchief, yours was good input as well. We both know it is a topic filled with variables and not so black & white as it may sound to the novice reader...... right Dave??


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## Popeye (Jul 4, 2008)

FishingCop said:


> P.S. - of course I know you weren't serious (I think????) :wink:



No, I'm not serious. Although... :lol: 

One time when I was still in the Navy and stationed in Norfolk, VA. I had gone to a pistol range on the week-end and put my 9mm in its case and put it in the trunk. I left the range and went to a bar to meet some friends and one thing led t another and I forgot about the gun in the trunk. Next morning I drive to werk and as I'm sitting line waiting for security to check ID's I see they are doing random vehicle searches and then realize the gun is in the trunk. :shock: Needless to say I was very relieved when they didn't search my car.


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## redbug (Jul 4, 2008)

When I was fishing lake Ontario I was informed that a flare gun was considered a firearm and fell under the same rules as any other gun

Wayne


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## Jim (Jul 4, 2008)

Congrats to you fishingcop! :USA1:


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## Captain Ahab (Jul 5, 2008)

FishingCop said:


> So, does that mean that I (like Capt. Ahab) can consult and charge for these opinions??? :lol:


Heck no! We have that area all wrapped up thank you. :mrgreen: 



Just as an aside - the Illinois Legislature (they make the laws) has not offered "flare gun" in their definition of weapons. However, they do have some "catch all" language that deals with, just as fish cop stated, the manner in which any device is carried in a vehicle. You have a loaded flare gun on top of your cocaine stash and you are gonna get a weapons charge. You have a flare gun loaded and under you seat and you are gonna get a weapons charge. You have a flare gun in a box in the trunk - you are not going to get charged for it.

 *Now, to whom do I send the bill?*


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## DocWatson (Jul 5, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> *Now, to whom do I send the bill?*



Flounderhead. It was his question.:mrgreen:


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## Popeye (Jul 5, 2008)

DocWatson said:


> Captain Ahab said:
> 
> 
> > *Now, to whom do I send the bill?*
> ...





flounderhead59 said:


> Thanks guys, I appreciate all the inputs. I will pass this information on to the person that originated the question. Just want you all to know that I was not the originator.



[-X If you send the bill to me I'll just have to fwd it to the orignator and as I have previously stated, this was not my question.


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## DocWatson (Jul 6, 2008)

flounderhead59 said:


> DocWatson said:
> 
> 
> > Captain Ahab said:
> ...



But you posted it. :wink:


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## Captain Ahab (Jul 6, 2008)

In that case the bill just doubled! :lol: :lol: :lol:


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## FishingCop (Jul 6, 2008)

Captain Ahab said:


> In that case the bill just doubled! :lol: :lol: :lol:




Well, in that case, do I get a cut????


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## DocWatson (Jul 6, 2008)

FishingCop said:


> Captain Ahab said:
> 
> 
> > In that case the bill just doubled! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...



Don't be surprised if he asks if you want that cut on your wrist or your throat. He's an attorney ya know. :mrgreen:


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## Captain Ahab (Jul 6, 2008)

FishingCop said:


> Captain Ahab said:
> 
> 
> > In that case the bill just doubled! :lol: :lol: :lol:
> ...



Of course - but we call that a bribe [-X


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## Popeye (Jul 6, 2008)

Fine, send me the bill for your .02¢ worth. And just remember, I would rather owe it to you than beat it out of you.


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