# Switch Panel ?'s



## BigTerp (Jun 17, 2013)

Trying to decide between a 5 and 6 gang control panel for my build. I like the 5 switch because it includes a 12v outlet and it will keep me from having to install an outlet somewhere else in the boat. I use a spotlight ALOT running to hunting holes early in the morning. But I have 6 total accessories. What, if any, of these can I leave unswitched? Or should I plan on having them all wired up to a control panel?

-LED Nav Lights
-LED Stern Light (plug in style)
-LED Interior Lights
-Stereo
-Sonar
-Automatic Bilge Pump


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## jacobxrt (Jun 17, 2013)

is your motor electric start? 
If it is you could put that stereo on your ignition switch.

-Jacob


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## RivRunR (Jun 17, 2013)

Stereo. It has its own built-in on/off switch.

_edit:_ and so does your sonar, which in many cases should not be externally switched because it needs to go thru its programed shut-down process.


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## vahunter (Jun 17, 2013)

BigTerp said:


> -LED Nav Lights
> -LED Stern Light (plug in style)
> -LED Interior Lights
> -Stereo
> ...


I'd get the 5 gang with the outlet. Here's how I'd do it.
-Nav and Stern lights
-int lights
-stereo
-sonar
-EMPTY (or bilge pump)

For the stern light since it the plugin type I'd put it on the same switch as the Nav light. You'd be running them at the same time generally right?


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## BigTerp (Jun 17, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319106#p319106 said:


> jacobxrt » Today, 1:06 pm[/url]"]is your motor electric start?
> If it is you could put that stereo on your ignition switch.
> 
> -Jacob



It is electric start. Not sure how what your saying would work??



RivRunR said:


> Stereo. It has its own built-in on/off switch.
> 
> _edit:_ and so does your sonar, which in many cases should not be externally switched because it needs to go thru its programed shut-down process.



This is the stereo I'll be getting. Not sure if this particular one should be switched or not?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009IAP54O/ref=cm_sw_su_dp

Also, this is the sonar I have. Should I keep this particular FF unswitched?

https://www.amazon.com/Lowrance-X-4-Fishfinder-200kHz-Transducer/dp/B00470R46C/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1371495945&sr=1-1&keywords=lowrance+x4



vahunter said:


> I'd get the 5 gang with the outlet. Here's how I'd do it.
> -Nav and Stern lights
> -int lights
> -stereo
> ...



Thanks. I was planning on running my nav lights and stern lights on seperate switches. Unless I'm wrong, you run your nav and stern lights when underway and just your stern lights when anchored.


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## BigTerp (Jun 17, 2013)

Thanks for the help/suggestions!!

I'd like to get away with not having to switch at least one of my accessories. Looks like I may be able to get away with either my stereo or FF unswitched. Question is, which one??


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## RivRunR (Jun 17, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319126#p319126 said:


> BigTerp » 9 minutes ago[/url]"]
> 
> This is the stereo I'll be getting. Not sure if this particular one should be switched or not?
> 
> ...


That's an amp, so it will depend on how the amp is powered. If it's powered thru the stereo head unit then you shouldn't need a switch, but if it has its own power supply you'll need to switch it somehow.

I don't see any reason to run sonar thru an additional switch since it has its own internal switch.

And you're correct on the nav lights, but you can run them thru a single DPDT on/off/on switch to get that result.


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## BigTerp (Jun 17, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319133#p319133 said:


> RivRunR » 30 minutes ago[/url]"]


That's an amp, so it will depend on how the amp is powered. If it's powered thru the stereo head unit then you shouldn't need a switch, but if it has its own power supply you'll need to switch it somehow.

I don't see any reason to run sonar thru an additional switch since it has its own internal switch.

And you're correct on the nav lights, but you can run them thru a single DPDT on/off/on switch to get that result.[/quote]

I'll be using the amp/speaker setup purely for playing MP3 files from my phone or other MP3 player. I won't be getting a head unit of any type for it. So looks like I should be switching it.

Sounds good on the sonar. That will free up a switch allowing me to get a 5 gang one with 12V plug instead of a 6 gang panel.

That makes sense on the nav lights. I don't think the switch panel I'm looking at has that function, but since I have room for both, I'll probably go ahead and switch them seperately.

And just FYI, I'm planning on going with this panel.

https://www.amazon.com/Seasense-Marine-Way-Switch-Panel/dp/B003E24MKA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371499424&sr=8-1&keywords=marine+switch+panel

Thanks!!


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## RivRunR (Jun 17, 2013)

My bad, I only looked at the title, and didn't notice it had an RCA input. So yes, you'll need a switch if you're going to use it as a "head unit."

Should be fine on the 2 nav switches, as long as you remember to flip both when running. :lol: 

You could probably replace the nav light switch with a DPDT switch to gain another spot later if you wanted to. Only problem might be the space on the back side of the switch panel, but it looks like there should be room for one. It's pretty easy to do, but it would be a lot easier to do it now, instead of after the panel is installed, if you're thinking about going that route.


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## BigTerp (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks for the help!!


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## RivRunR (Jun 18, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319233#p319233 said:


> BigTerp » Today, 08:28[/url]"]Thanks for the help!!


No problem.

Here's a diagram of how to wire up the DPDT on/off/on switch if you want to swap out.


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## BigTerp (Jun 18, 2013)

Thanks again. I'll look into that once I tackle my wiring.


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## rickybobbybend (Jun 18, 2013)

Have fun...and don't forget the fuses.


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## BigTerp (Jun 19, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319327#p319327 said:


> rickybobbybend » Yesterday, 11:41 pm[/url]"]Have fun...and don't forget the fuses.



Electric work is one thing I try not to mess with. Don't want to talk about the time I replaced my hot water heater :shock: But boat wiring shouldn't be to bad, seems pretty straight forward.

As far as fuses go, the control panel I'm getting is fused. What does that fuse protect? Do I still need to have a fuse between the battery and control panel? Or between the control panel and my accessory(ies)?


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## RivRunR (Jun 19, 2013)

Fuses protect the wiring, not the accessory.
You need a circuit breaker between the battery and the switch panel. It should be within 7" of the battery, and rated to the total amp load on the panel. I used a manual, instead of auto, reset model. There's one that actually mounts to the battery post, but I can't remember who makes it. The wire from the battery to the breaker, and the breaker to the panel should be sized to the amp load. So if you have some heavy gauge like 6 or 8 AWG use that.
You don't need another fuse between the panel and the accessory, fuses are already built into your switch panel.
I'd also suggest using a ground bus bar near your switch panel, instead of running multiple wires back to the battery negative.


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## BigTerp (Jun 19, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319362#p319362 said:


> RivRunR » Today, 9:49 am[/url]"]Fuses protect the wiring, not the accessory.
> You need a circuit breaker between the battery and the switch panel. It should be within 7" of the battery, and rated to the total amp load on the panel. I used a manual, instead of auto, reset model. There's one that actually mounts to the battery post, but I can't remember who makes it. The wire from the battery to the breaker, and the breaker to the panel should be sized to the amp load. So if you have some heavy gauge like 6 or 8 AWG use that.
> You don't need another fuse between the panel and the accessory, fuses are already built into your switch panel.
> I'd also suggest using a ground bus bar near your switch panel, instead of running multiple wires back to the battery negative.



Thanks for the explanation!!! This makes sense. I understand a fuse protects the wire, which is what I was trying to figure out for the fuses that come with the panel. So, to make sure I"m understanding correctly......

-Circuit breaker between battery and control panel protects that run of wire
-Fuses on control panel protect wire running from control panel to accessory
-Wire from battery > breaker > panel should be sized to TOTAL amp load of all accessories I have on my panel
-Wire from switch panel > accessory should be sized for the amp load of that particular accessory

Any suggestions on what circuit breaker and bus bar to get?


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## RivRunR (Jun 19, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319379#p319379 said:


> BigTerp » 43 minutes ago[/url]"]
> Thanks for the explanation!!! This makes sense. I understand a fuse protects the wire, which is what I was trying to figure out for the fuses that come with the panel. So, to make sure I"m understanding correctly......
> 
> -Circuit breaker between battery and control panel protects that run of wire
> ...


All correct except that wire to the accessory needs to be sized by amp load *and* length of run (both pos & neg). Here's a chart. Use tinned marine wire, it costs more, but it's the right wire for marine environments.

Any bus bar will do, Blue Sea Systems makes very good stuff. Get one with more terminals than you need...for some reason boats seem to get more mods than originally anticipated. 

And any "name brand" circuit breaker will be fine, the ones with "marine" in their name seem to cost twice as much, but I don't know that you're getting a better quality breaker.


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## BigTerp (Jun 19, 2013)

Thanks for the chart. This is all rather confusing to me, but I THINK I have it figured out. If you all can bear with me, I'll run a few more things by you guys to make sure I'm not going to catch my boat on fire!!! Here is what I have figured out.

Amp Draw/Length of wire (round trip)
-Anchor Light .70amps/24ft
-Bow Light .20amps/12ft
-Interior Lights .35amps/24ft
-FF .25amps/12ft
-Bilge Pump 3.5amps/24ft
-Stereo/Amp < 10amps/6ft

For all of the above based on the chart I'll be needing over 50' of 14 gauge wire. Most of these only call for 16 gauge wire, but my stereo and bilge pump is right on the threshold of needing 14 gauge wire based on the chart. Is it ok to use 14 gauge wire for everything?

Now, figuring total amps on my switch panel (plus an 8 amp spotlight) gets me 24.5 amps. I'm guessing it will be 12' from battery to switch panel (round trip). So I should be getting a circuit breaker rated for more than 24.5 amps and be using 10 gauge wire, correct?

What wire should I be getting? Might be a dumb question, but I see it comes in "primary" and "duplex". Would the only difference be I'd have to run 2 wires using primary (one each for positive and negative) and only one if using duplex since it already has 2 wires?

Primary: https://www.amazon.com/Marine-Tinned-Primary-Multiple-Colors/dp/B002MYSBNK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1371667715&sr=8-4&keywords=tinned+marine+wire+14+gauge

Duplex: https://www.amazon.com/Ancor-121510-Electrical-Standard-14-Gauge/dp/B000NUYBW0/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1371667715&sr=8-5&keywords=tinned+marine+wire+14+gauge

Last dumb question......Any need to "ground" any of this stuff, or am I just running positive and negative wires?

Sorry for all the questions, but this is something I want to make sure I get right the first time.

Thanks again for all the help!!!


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## RivRunR (Jun 19, 2013)

Yes, 14AWG is fine for your accessories...bigger is better.

For the breaker, depending on which way you swagged your amp numbers, I'd think a 25A or 30A...probably 30A breaker. And yes to the 10AWG because, again, bigger is better.

The only difference with duplex is just what you said, 2 wires in one sheathing (which does give them more protection). Sometimes it's easier to run duplex instead of pulling 2 wires, other times it's not... like when your pos wire goes only to the console, and your neg wire goes all the way back to the stern where the battery is.

There are cheaper sources for tinned marine wire than Amazon, like Tinned Marine Wire and Genuinedealz.

Don't "ground" any accessories... just positive to your panel, and negative to your bus bar, and you're good to go.

And the only dumb question is the one you don't ask...the folks here are glad to try and help!


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## BigTerp (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks RivRunR!! This is all starting to make much more sense to me now.

I definetly swayed on the + side for figuring my total amperage. For the accessories that were < 1 amp, I figured on 1 amp of draw for them. For the stereo I couldn't find what amp draw it had, but it comes with a 10 amp fuse, so I figured 10 amps for the stereo. Not sure on the spotlight either, but a quick search of a few different models looks like 8 amps is a safe guess. So realisiticly I'm probably looking at less than 20 amps total on my panel, especially when not running my spotlight. It's probably closer to 15 or so amps without running my spotlight and 22 or so amps while running my spotlight. Is a 30 amp circuit breaker still sufficient? Or should I be looking to get a circuit breaker rated for lower than 30 amps?

So the control panel I'm looking at comes with each switch fused with a 15amp fuse. Should I be swapping these fuses out for more appropriate sized fuses based on what accessory is on that switch? For instance my running lights, anchor lights and interior lights are all less than 1 amp of draw. Should I go with something like a 2 amp fuse for these a 5 amp fuse for my bilge pump and leave the 15 amp fuse for the stereo?

This is the one part of my build I wasn't looking forward to. But the guidance I've gotten here makes me feel MUCH more comfortable tackling the job!!!


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## RivRunR (Jun 20, 2013)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=319477#p319477 said:


> BigTerp » Today, 08:57[/url]"]Thanks RivRunR!! This is all starting to make much more sense to me now.
> 
> I definetly swayed on the + side for figuring my total amperage. For the accessories that were < 1 amp, I figured on 1 amp of draw for them. For the stereo I couldn't find what amp draw it had, but it comes with a 10 amp fuse, so I figured 10 amps for the stereo. Not sure on the spotlight either, but a quick search of a few different models looks like 8 amps is a safe guess. So realisiticly I'm probably looking at less than 20 amps total on my panel, especially when not running my spotlight. It's probably closer to 15 or so amps without running my spotlight and 22 or so amps while running my spotlight. Is a 30 amp circuit breaker still sufficient? Or should I be looking to get a circuit breaker rated for lower than 30 amps?
> 
> ...


Given all that, a smaller breaker is probably what you need. Since they are so cheap, maybe just get a 20, 25 and 30...wire up the 20, turn everything on and see if it trips, LOL! I expect a 25 is where you'll land.

Yeah, you should use right-sized fuses for each circuit. If I recall, I think I ran 3A on my navs, 5A on my bilges, and 15 on my 12V cig socket. Your fishfinder book should tell you what size to run, usually it's like a 1A, and you can just run it thru an in-line fuse directly to the battery to help avoid interference from other devices.

Electrical used to spook me too, but it's really pretty straightforward. 

Oh, and I'd recommend getting terminal connectors like these heat shrink terminals which crimp, but also have heat-shrink plus adhesive for a good tight fit.


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## BigTerp (Jun 20, 2013)

Thanks RivRunR, I appreciate the help!!


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