# Some babble about gear upgrades



## LDUBS

Biding my time before an endodontist appointment. Pardon my babbling. 

If being frugal is a good thing, then I would like to think I am frugal as opposed to a cheapskate. Status considerations aren’t important to me. I think a Rolex and Patek Phillipe are fantastic watches, but would never buy one. My Seiko (which I think was expensive enough) keeps time just fine. I’ve always leaned towards economy brands/models. It is just part of my DNA. Like most my age, I grew up learning the value of a dollar from parents that lived through the great depression. 

When it comes to fishing gear, I naturally drift towards the economy end of the manufacturer’s lineup. I have a Shimano Sienna. My rods have pretty much been Ugly Stiks. I know there are superior set ups. Up to now, I just haven’t been able to convince myself that a Stradic/G. Loomis set-up would be $400 worth of superior. I don’t think I’ve ever lost a fish due to my gear. The problem is I have never actually used higher end equipment, so can’t really make a valid first hand comparison. 

Which brings me to the first point of all of this blathering. I had an opportunity a few days ago to use a friend’s gear tossing lures at salmon. The set up was an 8 ½’ Lamiglas graphite rod with a Shimano Calcutta reel. It was spooled up with 12# mono. I was lucky enough to land a salmon on this gear. All I can say is WOW. I really liked the set up. Best way I can describe it is everything is smoother. As an aside, casting a level wind is kind of like driving a stick shift. It came back to me quickly. 

I think I will be picking up gear so I can do more salmon fishing in the river. When I got home I was telling my wife how great our friend’s gear is. She says I should upgrade. So I went on line to look at Lamiglas rods. Then I see that Ugly Stik has a salmon/steelhead rod . . . . . . . . . sigh.

I guess a final upshot would be feedback here is valuable to guys like me. My next spinning reel will likely be a Pfleuger President because of recommendations made here. I hope you guys will continue to share your recommendations.

Cheers

Larry


----------



## -CN-

I owned lots of the higher end stuff in a previous life. Through a hook-up with discounts on St Croix rods (and reels at the time), my collection was mostly that. I didn't have my reel choice narrowed down to anything in particular at the time, but most of them were $200+, from Shimano, Diawa, Abu Garcia. I didn't do as much fishing back then as I do now. I've learned that I like certain length rods and certain action in the tip. As my St Croix stuff got old and I repeatedly used the same one or two rods that fit my preference, I began to get more that suited me. I liked the action of the St Croix rods so used that as a starting point for what I would pick. Surprisingly, I found that the Berkley Cherrywood HD, available from Wal Mart, met my needs. I was very leery about such a cheap price tag, but at only $20 I thought it was a safe experiment. I've since found the Cabela's Pro Guide rods are great for me too. Now we're talking rods under $50, and I've accumulated 5 or 6 of each of those two brands and have sold all of my old "high end" stuff. I catch more fish now than I ever have, and don't worry about my gear so much as it's inexpensive to replace. I like the Pflueger President, President LE, President XT, and Summit XT spinning reels (all under $60 when on sale), and the Abu Garcia Silver Max baitcasters at $50 each. It was a happy day for me when I sold my Shimano Curado reels and still got over $100 for them on the used market - went and bought more "low end" Abus. Now every time I see a St Croix or another brand rod that has a $200+ price tag I chuckle a little bit in my head. It's a stick with line attached to it. Kind of a silly thought that a person would pay so much for...a stick.


----------



## gnappi

Larry, I'm a LOT like you, as a matter of fact, reading your post I had to check to make sure I didn't write it some time ago 

Sometimes you get what you pay for in quality of a "logo tax" sometimes not. I have several vices, guitars, firearms, motorcycles and fishing all of them can be entry points for getting hooked on the "logo tax". I also have no insecurity to feed by taking pix of LMB's with a Shimano Stella.

My Shimano Sienna and ugly stick catch a lot of fish, FAR more than my Stradic because the Stradic has not proven to be worth the money and stays home. Is it smooth? sure the Stradic IS smooth but the fish don't care that the Sienna is a bit less smooth. My stainless Taurus PT92 is every bit (and better in finish) as good as my stainless Italian Beretta 92, I have some Asian copies of my American made status brand guitars that are superior in reliability and fit / finish, and my 35 year old Seiko watch has never broken, while my genuine Rolex (a 40th birthday gift) has been back to "R" inc. for repairs in New York twice. 

OTOH, in salt water expecting to be 30+ miles offshore I only took my Penn Internationals and custom made IGFA rods, nothing else ever interested me enough to even look at another brand, and my Minn Kota trolling motor was bought without even a glance at other brands on the racks at local fishing supply stores, and some of my logo brand shirts wash better, feel better, look better on, and last longer than $12 shirts at Target.

Do I own some "top" name brand stuff? Sure, otherwise I'd be on shaky ground stating an opinion, but I do have preferences because I am fortunate enough to have or have had logo tax stuff for a comparison. 

As far as spinners go, it's hard to justify in my mind another high end Shimano, at best they may in the near future get me to buy an eighty dollar Sahara. Is judging their whole line based on a sample of one fair? Yes, yes it is when my over $200 Stradic Ci4+ 2500 RA sits in a closet while my $39 model does not. I don't throw several $100 bills around like nickels


----------



## gnappi

PS, 

I think Shimano is shooting themselves in the foot with so many reels in a narrow price range (Spirex, Sedona, Nexave, Sahara, Catana, Syncopate, Symetre, Sonora, Solstice to name a few) between $40 and $65 or so. Luckily I only will buy rear drag models so I'm limited... I never thought that LACK of selection would be so satisfyingly easy to live with!


----------



## richg99

Well, at least I am in comfortable company. 

For a while, I was hooked on Chronarch reels. Back then (20 + years ago), they were in the $150/$250 range. I think, after a particularly good year, I bought ONE. I was on sales commission pay, so a good year allowed for such excesses. 

Then, for the next five or so years, whenever my wife and kids wanted to know what 'Ol Dad wanted for birthday or Christmas, I'd tell them to pool their money and get me another Chronarch reel. I accumulated two more fine reels using that ploy.

Twenty years later, two of the Chronarchs have been lost; one still is around but a $50.00 Lews works better, even after sending the Chronarch out to be serviced. 

My spinning reels are not used all that much, but they are 25-year old Penn's, which hold up remarkedly well, considering how hard I am on equipment.

Most of my present gear would be considered "very reasonable" because I, also, am "frugal". I am hard on gear and I don't have any demanding uses. A 7-lb redfish isn't going to break any of my rods or wear out my inexpensive reels. 

If I fished tournaments, I might be able to justify spending a lot of money on gear, but I don't, and I can't.

Get what makes you feel good, not what looks good. If you feel you have a better chance at catching fish with XYZ reel or rod, buy it. You only get so many chances to enjoy life to its fullest.

richg99


----------



## LDUBS

Back when I was a young lad, if you had a Mitchell 300 you were cookin'. I remember my Dad taking my brother and me to get gear at a place called Western Auto. Aw, the good old days. 

For years I used a Penn 740 spinning reel. Still have it. I probably should clean it up and start using it again. Might bring me luck. Haha. 

Gnappi, I have an old Shimano FX2000 spin reel with rear drag. Not sure where I got it and have never used it as far as I can remember. I guess that was before they started naming all of their spinning reels with names starting with "S".


----------



## gnappi

LDUBS said:


> Back when I was a young lad, if you had a Mitchell 300 you were cookin'. I remember my Dad taking my brother and me to get gear at a place called Western Auto. Aw, the good old days.
> 
> For years I used a Penn 740 spinning reel. Still have it. I probably should clean it up and start using it again. Might bring me luck. Haha.
> 
> Gnappi, I have an old Shimano FX2000 spin reel with rear drag. Not sure where I got it and have never used it as far as I can remember. I guess that was before they started naming all of their spinning reels with names starting with "S".



 I too started out with Mitchell 300's and just lest year I threw them out because the aluminum frames gave way. Back then the biggest problems the 300's had was rusting high carbon bail springs. My Dad was a tool and die maker and made stainless bail springs that outlasted the reels!


----------



## richg99

OK, if we are going to have Mitchell 300 stories....

when I was maybe 12 or so, I had a long, fiberglass flyrod. Heavy and whippy. I broke the last foot or so off in a car door. I changed the eyes out and had my first serious spinning rod.

Powered by a Mitchell 300! 

I caught a ton of small baitfish with it, fishing off of the Boynton Beach Jetty on the East Coast of Florida. My aunt had a house there, and my parents sent me away for a couple of summers.
richg99


----------



## gnappi

*Did you know this???*

Waayyy back in the early 60's the Mitchell 300 was the only reel made that came for lefties like myself? IIRC it was called the 301. Those pesky bail springs had to be made custom for me, THANKS Dad! (RIP)


----------



## LDUBS

I wonder if the new Mitchell 300's are any good? Last time I looked at one in a BPS they were in the $50 range.


----------



## onthewater102

As far as rods go I got into building them for myself. The component parts aren't terribly expensive, and you can choose where you cut corners to save on costs so that you're cutting cosmetics and not performance. 

The tooling is quite simple, you can make a hand wrapping stand for yourself out of some scrap wood as I did for very little $$$ and come up with a stand for a drying motor - all in I probably have <$30 into the cost of tooling including the drying rack motor. It's really cool the first time you use one you've made and see how it feels compared to your setups prior.


----------



## SeaFaring

I just picked up a new Shimano NASCI 3000 for $99. 

The way I justified spending that much was that the reel has 20lbs of drag in 3000 size - most reels that small have 10-15 lbs of drag. This makes it a more versatile inshore reel. One of my primary use cases is vertical jigging, so the light weight of a small reel with a composite frame was desirable. 

I find the main advantage of higher end reels is better drags, and in the case of baitcasters, better cast control and bearings. 

That said, I’m super happy with my $29 Pflueger Trion micro underspin. With 4-6 lb mono, you don’t need big drag, and what there is is pretty smooth. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## New River Rat

I'm only going through this life once. I'm going to be good to me.....at least to the point of diminishing return. :LOL2:


----------



## Stumpalump

You like to fish and are considering a $50 reel? I like to drive a desert car that use a transaxle. I can get a great shifter for $49 because it the same one VW bugs use. I bought a $550 Pro-Am billet shifter with real bearings in it. That thing is in my hand and used constantly while I'm doing what I love. It shifts like a rice rocket. It's my main hobby and my most used piece of gear so I bought the best and love it. Yep a $550 VW bug shifter. Save the bargains, used stuff and mediocre stuff for everything else in life. Every time I skimp and save the money piles up in the bank. In this market the interest alone makes the finest in life items practically free. Save on other items and buy yourself a real piece of gear that will be loved every time you touch the thing in life that you love. That's the real bargain.


----------



## LDUBS

Yep, $50 reels work remarkably well. When I need a new spinning reel I hope I can get the Pflueger President on sale for $35. I want gear that will function well and reliably so I can go fishing and have some fun. I don't need to spend $200 on a spinning reel to do that. I would derive no pleasure whatsoever from flashing around a $700 Stella, I don't care how many more ball bearings it has. Just the way I'm wired. And of course, what I'm doing is a lot different than being airborne in a dune buggy. LOL

As they say, to each his own.


----------



## LDUBS

SeaFaring said:


> I just picked up a new Shimano NASCI 3000 for $99.
> 
> The way I justified spending that much was that the reel has 20lbs of drag in 3000 size - most reels that small have 10-15 lbs of drag. This makes it a more versatile inshore reel. One of my primary use cases is vertical jigging, so the light weight of a small reel with a composite frame was desirable.
> 
> I find the main advantage of higher end reels is better drags, and in the case of baitcasters, better cast control and bearings.
> 
> That said, I’m super happy with my $29 Pflueger Trion micro underspin. With 4-6 lb mono, you don’t need big drag, and what there is is pretty smooth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



With that drag you can load her up with higher test braid. Come back and do a review (I guess we will have to wait until after the big thaw). I, and I think a lot of others, gain a lot from the gear feedback.


----------



## SeaFaring

LDUBS said:


> SeaFaring said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just picked up a new Shimano NASCI 3000 for $99.
> 
> The way I justified spending that much was that the reel has 20lbs of drag in 3000 size - most reels that small have 10-15 lbs of drag. This makes it a more versatile inshore reel. One of my primary use cases is vertical jigging, so the light weight of a small reel with a composite frame was desirable.
> 
> I find the main advantage of higher end reels is better drags, and in the case of baitcasters, better cast control and bearings.
> 
> That said, I’m super happy with my $29 Pflueger Trion micro underspin. With 4-6 lb mono, you don’t need big drag, and what there is is pretty smooth.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> 
> With that drag you can load her up with higher test braid. Come back and do a review (I guess we will have to wait until after the big thaw). I, and I think a lot of others, gain a lot from the gear feedback.
Click to expand...


I’m really happy with it - my fishing buddy and I have caught a couple of keeper striped bass on it. 

I also realized that by taking it off of the 6’ slow action jigging rod and putting it on my 7’ medium action spinning rod, it will also be a good walleye/smallmouth rig. 

I have a hard time doing full reviews though because I just don’t get to fish enough to really put the screws on my tackle. As some of you have probably realized, I can be a bit wordy. But with fishing tackle I usually don’t get past “it’s smooth. I like it.” Or whatever it does that I don’t like, nothing in that category on the NASCI yet. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Doc Arroyo

It was never about the price tag or the logo. Fishing rods are all about the feel. Ugly Stiks never felt right to me. 40 years ago I worked in a bait and tackle shop. I built a Lamaglass ultralight rod, and got a Fenwick HMG graphite bass rod for Christmas. Both are still sticking fish on a regular basis. I have added a couple of Shimano and BPS rods to the mix.
For years all of my baitcaster reels were the same. All Abu 5500c. It made life easy. Now I am playing with a $70 low profile Abu with magnets. Do not know if it will last, but it seems to be able to skip jigs under docks.


----------



## Jim

I tried skipping jigs with a bait caster twice, never again. Line is to expensive to replace. You have never seen bird nests bigger than those.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## New River Rat

Jim said:


> I tried skipping jigs with a bait caster




I've tried it a few times.....makes ya feel pretty good when it goes well.


----------



## handyandy

I can't bring myself to buy real high end reels new. For one too many of them are made in china and have an American labor rate price tag on them. I have newer reels form before I got into repairing old reels, my favorite newer median priced reels are the pflueger presidential and arbor. I'm a fan of an ugly stik as well hard to beat for the money. I will admit my high end rods are much better, and when it comes to some fishing when I really want that extra feel they give I notice it. Anyways on the reels I'm a big fan of the older usa made penn reels like z714's, 430's, and the 4300's for a small spinner, they had larger ones as well like z712 and z710, 440/450, they were all really well made reels with worm gear drive setups. I have two old 430's I took apart cleaned everything regreased and put back together with new carbon fiber drag washers. Also the old DAM quick reels are really well made, I have number of them now after discovering them over recent years. I get a lot of enjoyment though from landing fish with reels that are from the 60's that I personally took apart rebuilt and use now. Kind of the same feeling when you've fixed the car or anything for that matter and it works great again. Rods I have a few nicer ones I've managed to score second hand for good prices, I have two falcon rods, a lamiglas xcel bass rod, an older st croix. I did buy one of the falcons new, but it was on sale, and I still got a military discount on it to make it pretty reasonable. Sometimes it's worth it, I figure if I take good care of my good equipment it will last me a long time, and I will get my money's worth out of it.


----------



## New River Rat

handyandy said:


> made in china and have an American labor rate price tag on them.




That is pretty much everything in our homes or everything we own, right?

I remember Converse Chucks being made here and were $24 a pair. Reebok bought them, went off shore where they were paying a buck or so per shoe, jacked the price to $50 per pair. Thank you cooperate shareholders for showing us your greed.

These were mentioned not to highjack the thread, because All Stars were my original footwear for fishing.


----------



## WV1951

LDUBS, my parents didn't tell me I had an identical twin. Grew up earning every penny I had. No hand outs. Two jobs when first married, etc., etc.
I also remember the Garcia 300's when they were looked at as pretty good stuff.
I have a Shimano Bantam 10x that I bought many years ago and when I grab something to head for the pond or river, it is that itty bitty Shamano. My 5500 and 6500 hardly sees any use. 
Same argument for golf clubs. There are those that are logo and the "newest" obsessed, but my bought used old Taylor Made RAC LT's will keep up with anybody that I play with.


----------



## LDUBS

WV1951 said:


> LDUBS, my parents didn't tell me I had an identical twin. Grew up earning every penny I had. No hand outs. Two jobs when first married, etc., etc.
> I also remember the Garcia 300's when they were looked at as pretty good stuff.
> I have a Shimano Bantam 10x that I bought many years ago and when I grab something to head for the pond or river, it is that itty bitty Shamano. My 5500 and 6500 hardly sees any use.
> Same argument for golf clubs. There are those that are logo and the "newest" obsessed, but my bought used old Taylor Made RAC LT's will keep up with anybody that I play with.



I had a set of Powerbilt TPS irons made for my height for many years. I passed them on a few years ago when I finally recognized I wasn't spending any time on the links.


----------



## handyandy

New River Rat said:


> handyandy said:
> 
> 
> 
> made in china and have an American labor rate price tag on them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is pretty much everything in our homes or everything we own, right?
> 
> I remember Converse Chucks being made here and were $24 a pair. Reebok bought them, went off shore where they were paying a buck or so per shoe, jacked the price to $50 per pair. Thank you cooperate shareholders for showing us your greed.
> 
> These were mentioned not to highjack the thread, because All Stars were my original footwear for fishing.
Click to expand...


unfortunately this is all to often the case, then we give big cooperate tax cuts for so many that have done this. Anyways staying on topic there is still some gear made here that isn't horribly priced. Much of the st croix line is still USA made with the exception of some like the triumph, x, rage series of rods. Their avid and premier series of rods are usa made and pretty competitive in price when compared to similar rods. Now obviously your ugly stik is much cheaper, but having some of both I can tell you there is a big difference between my st croix premier rod I have and one of my many ugly stiks. Reels it's hard any of the usa made ones are quiet expensive that's why I enjoy reviving old reels like german made dam quicks, usa made penns. I try to buy American if at all possible and economically feasible. But my waders are USIA waders only USA made waders I know of, shoes it's hard most of my work boots are USA made double H's also just bought a pair of thorogood boots most of theirs are USA made they seem pretty good so far. Staying on fishing gear Falcon rods still makes a lot of their rods in the USA their bucco micro series is their most affordable USA line like everyone else they do have off shore made rods. I don't know about lamiglas these days I have an excel series bass rod of theirs that was made in the USA, not sure about now.


----------



## New River Rat

Andy, some Redwing boots are still made here.


I have two pair of these, one is 10 years old and still going!


----------

