# fused switch panel - trying to make a decision



## franner11 (Mar 20, 2012)

Hey guys!
I'm pulling all my electrical stuff together for my 1542 tracker mod, and I'm having a really hard time deciding on a switch panel...
That said, I understand basically how I will be connecting everything, but I was wondering if I could get a little input on which switch panel is best. I want to do this right, the first time, and have possible expansion switches available for adding other electrical items in the future, with ease.
So, I have two deep cycle batteries - one will be trolling motor only and the other with have all of my other components hooked up to it:
bilge pump
bow fish finder
stern fish finder
bow/stern running lights
cig lighter
possibly a cockpit light or two on the same switch (think 2 led lights)

I was planning on having the bow & stern nav lights on the same switch, but I understand that if anchored, I'd need to have just the stern/anchor light on and not the bow light. That makes me think I might need to either get a three way toggle switch and replace that in the panel I buy, or run them on two separate switches (which I don't really want to do), or have a totally independent 3-way switch separate from the 6-bank switch panel.

Anyway, I'm trying to decide which panel is the best, and would welcome any advice from y'all:
This for $100:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2O0B8/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A1UNWS4MSNTF2A

or this for $70:
https://www.amazon.com/BEP-CSP6-Water-Proof-Panel/dp/B000NI3GV4/ref=pd_rhf_dp_p_t_2

What do you all think? Or am I overspending and should keep the BPS one I already bought (which seems on the mega-cheap end):
https://www.basspro.com/Bass-Pro-Shops-Rocker-Switch-Panels/product/861/100219

Thanks!
Fran


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## Bob Landry (Mar 20, 2012)

The two switch panels that you linked to are made by Blue Sea and Anchor, both heavy hitters in the marine industry for many years and you will never go wrong with any of their products. The BPS appears to be very similar in materials and construction to those made by Sea Dog. They have also been around a long time, but they manufacture low end parts and equipment for casual boaters. I personally do not recommend their product to my customers. Just my personal reference after having been in the business for a few years.

With the Nav lights, there are a couple of ways you can go. 

One is to utilize two of the switches in the panel if you do not have them already designated for anything, and put the bow light on one switch and the 360 white light on another and turn on one or both as needed. That's not my first choice either. but that's preferable to having an extra switch installed somewhere else just to operate lights. 

If you go with Blue Sea or Ancor, they probably make a DPDT or a SPDT switch that could be installed in the panel. With a DPDT, you can wire the switch to operate one or both lights easily. A call to their tech support people will tell you what you want to know. It's just as easy with a SPDT but you have to use a diode at the switch, easy and available at Radio Shack. 

I wouldn't bother to run the cig lighter plug off of a switch. There's no need to switch it on and off. Just run a #10 wire from your hot buss and fuse it with a 10A fuse. That's what the cig lighters are rated for.


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## franner11 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks so much, Bob - great advice - especially on the cig lighter.

One more question - if I get either the Blue Sea or Anchor, I still need to get a separate bus bar for negatives, right? Or are those pretty much built into the switch panel already?


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## franner11 (Mar 20, 2012)

Actually just called Blue Sea - great tech support. I do need a separate negative bus bar if I get the 4376. And a DPDT switch to swap out in one of the positions for the bow/stern lights is part # 4155.

Again, Bob, you rock!
Thanky!
~ Fran


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## FuzzyGrub (Mar 20, 2012)

Give some thought to what the main items you will be powering from the cig lighter, and how close it is to your position. You may want it switchable (for convience) from the panel. I mainly use mine for minnow bucket airator, portable live-well, or extra night lights. I prefer to use the panel switch vs pulling plug or finding the inline switch, etc. 

The two FFs can be powered by one switch or just inline fused. They have to be powered on at the head unit anyway. Powering modern units off via ext switch can bypass some of the shutdown routines, too. You can loose some settings changes and some gps data.


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## franner11 (Mar 20, 2012)

I'm only thinking of installing the cig lighter for an emergency cell phone charge...or a spot light if I ever go out at night (which is doubtful). Just really wanna have the option to charge something if I need to, or have the option to have an outlet on hand if needed it for anything else.
I will be installing the cig lighter separately and not on the switch panel, as Bob suggested, and it will be right next to the switch panel, within reach of the stern seat where I'll be steering my tiller controlled outboard. 
I just like to be prepared, obviously. You just never know being out on the water!

And as for the bus bar...anything wrong with a 10 position 150 ampere version? 
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000KOR7DE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A1UNWS4MSNTF2A


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## Bob Landry (Mar 20, 2012)

The 150A buss bar will be fine. That lets you run a heavy wire to it from battery neg and than attach all of the grounds from your devices to the bar putting all of the grounds together. I think some switch panels may have ground bars, but if they do, they will be small and difficult to work with when you start attaching multiple leads to them. Plus, there's no need to since you are only switching 12V.

I hadn't thought about losing the shut-down routines on the FFs, but that makes sense. There's no need to run them off of a switch anyway. Go directly to your fuse block and come off of it with a 3A inline fuse or whatever the manufacturer says to use and all is protected.

I think you are on the right track. Electrical is one area where it really has to be right and you can do that either the first or the second time. Nothing disrupts a fun day on the water, or a trip home faster than an electrical problem. 12V stuff is really simple and if you do it right, you'll never have to worry about it again.


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## franner11 (Mar 20, 2012)

Thanks - I think I understand what y'all are telling me now. I'll draw up a diagram of my plans once it all sinks in...

So what I am thinking now is this...
Battery 1 + wire to 30amp (or 45amp) circuit breaker to 6 bank fused panel using 6awg on both sides.

6 Bank fused panel contains:
Bank 1: 10awg to Bilge Pump
Bank 2: 16awg to 360 stern + red/green bow lights on one 3-way toggle switch
Bank 3: 16awg to Running lights - 2 LEDs on same switch
Bank 4, 5, 6: not used, but available for future expansion

All banks running same awg wire to negative bus bar, then bus bar to negative on batter 1 using 6awg.

When you say to run my two fish finders to the fuse panel...I don't understand. If you're saying not to have the fish finders on switches because it'll erase any settings etc...are you just saying run them straight to the battery in a circuit with just an inline fuse and not to run to or from the fuse panel at all? I don't have any other fuse block...so I guess that's what's confusing me...


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## Bob Landry (Mar 20, 2012)

Attach the wires for the fishfinders to the point that feeds 12v to the switch panel and put the inline fuses close to the attachment point. That will be the most convenient and you'll probably have the ground buss close-by. I hate to see a nest of wires attached to a battery terminal. Aside from looking sloppy, it can be a hassle if you need to change batteries. I've had to trace down a lot of problems because some boat owner just used whatever color wire he had in his tool box and attached them wherever possible.


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## FuzzyGrub (Mar 20, 2012)

On the FF's you can run them on their own circuit back to the battery, or from the panel power bus/grounding bar. As long as the inline fuse is within 6-7" of the + connection, it will be fine. For saving on wire, you might run one from the panel + and the other right to the battery.

Also, 10ga seems quite large for a bilge pump, but don't know the current draw and distance for yours. My Rule 500gph is only 1.9A draw, and recommended fused at 2.5A. 

IMHO, if you have the switches, use them. If you need to change in the future, then you have the options of taking the cig lighter and ff off the panel switches. I thought you were trying to get the panel size down or were short switches.


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## franner11 (Mar 20, 2012)

Got it, guys - thanks so much! 
I'll post a diagram when I get it all sorted out. I really appreciate your help!!!

...was guessing on the 10awg for the bilge - I'll check the paperwork and use the correct size.


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## franner11 (Mar 22, 2012)

OK guys, here's my layout.
Here's what I am guessing I need in regards to wire size and the connections of everything.
I welcome comments and/or suggestions...


Battery 1 setup: 
Battery 1 +/- goes to circuit breaker with 6 awg wire (30amp 40amp or 50amp CB?) then 6awg + to fuse panel & 6awg negative to bus bar.
Negative bus bar connects to negative on the fuse panel using 6awg.
All negative lines from every component (bilge, ff1, ff2, LED series, nav lights) go only to negative bus bar using either 16awg or 14awg, depending on the distance to the negative bus bar.
All positive lines from every component go to their respective switches on the fuse panel using either 16awg or 14awg depending on the distance to the fuse panel.
Cig lighter negative connects to negative bus bar using 10awg wire.
Cig light positive connects to fuse panel (but not a switch) positive using 10awg with a waterproof inline fuse of 10amps.

What size circuit breaker that will need to go between battery 1 to the fuse panel. Is 30 amps OK? 40 amps? Should I get another 50amp like the one on the trolling motor connection, or is that too high amperage? 

Battery 2 Setup: 
I think I have the trolling motor connections all set, but have one little question: battery 2 goes to 50 amp manual circuit breaker which goes to trolling motor outlet plug. Only question I have is that the outlet plug has 8awg wire on it, but I thought I needed to connect all parts of the circuit with 6awg. Is 8 awg all around OK?

Do I have this right?
Thanks in advance!!!
Fran


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## franner11 (Mar 22, 2012)

also, just as a layout note, I will be putting in decking with carpet, etc, similar to this build by Hooky1420...so my boat won't be bare bones like it is in my diagram.
https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=16300


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## mfreeman451 (Mar 22, 2012)

Check these out from Cabelas. I recently installed it, was really easy and looks great.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/Cabelas-Standard-Rocker-Switch-Panel/699792.uts


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## ChitownBasser (Mar 23, 2012)

First off, I am by no means a wiring expert. I am in the middle of my wiring/electrical hook ups. 
For your battery 1, a 50 amp circuit breaker should be fine, hopefully. That is what I decided on. Others suggested a 30 amp, but I just went with a 50 to be sure. 
For your battery 2, 8awg should be okay. That is the consensus I have gotten from most of these posts for trolling motors. Plus since you're not wiring it a great distance, 8 is fine. Just my thoughts.


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## RivRunR (Mar 23, 2012)

I'm no expert either, but here's few comments / questions:

_"Negative bus bar connects to negative on the fuse panel using 6awg."_ Not sure what you mean here, you don't normally need to connect a ground to your fuse panel, unless your panel needs a ground for the switch's light circuits.

_"Cig light positive connects to fuse panel (but not a switch) positive using 10awg with a waterproof inline fuse of 10amps."_ If you're connecting this to the fuse panel, then you don't also need an inline fuse...just fuse it at the panel.

_"What size circuit breaker that will need to go between battery 1 to the fuse panel."_ It looks like your total draw thru the fuse panel is 20+ amps, so a 20 amp breaker would do it, assuming your run to the panel is under 10'. If your amp draw is more, your breaker may need to be higher.

_"the outlet plug has 8awg wire on it, but I thought I needed to connect all parts of the circuit with 6awg"_ Agree with Chitown, for that short of a run, 8AWG should be ok.

I couldn't exactly tell, but from the diagram it looks like you're running a lead from the battery 1's circuit breaker to the negative buss bar. There's no ground for the breaker, it just goes: battery+ to breaker (within 7") to fuse panel. The breaker posts should be marked for battery and load (panel).


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## franner11 (Mar 23, 2012)

Appreciate all of the advice, Chitown & RivRunR!

The fuse panel I bought does have lighted switches, so I will be running a negative line to it from the bus bar.

And thanks for clarifying the circuit breaker not having a negative on it - just positive - makes sense.

As for the cig lighter line...still a tiny bit confused about that....Mr. Landry said not to run it on a switch but as stand alone with an inline fuse. (Just run a #10 wire from your hot buss and fuse it with a 10A fuse.)
What's the hot buss? The positive bus in the fuse panel? Or the battery + ?

Maybe there is some semantics confusion here: I bought a fused switch panel with switches inside of it, so it's all one tidy box. I do not have a separate fuse panel box from a switch panel box - it's all one thing.
This is what I bought: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000K2O0B8/ref=oh_o00_s00_i02_details


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## dyeguy1212 (Mar 23, 2012)

franner11 said:


> Appreciate all of the advice, Chitown & RivRunR!
> 
> The fuse panel I bought does have lighted switches, so I will be running a negative line to it from the bus bar.
> 
> ...



If you have a positive bus, run the cig lighter to it. If not, run it to the battery. Either way it'll be going to the same place (battery), but having all your connections going to one bus helps you trouble shoot when something stops working.


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## RivRunR (Mar 23, 2012)

Wasn't sure about your switches, but since they are lighted then it makes sense that the panel has a ground.

On the cig lighter... I was just going on your _"Cig light positive connects to fuse panel but not a switch"_ comment. Landry is right, you don't need it on a switch. I thought you were fusing it at the panel _*AND*_ with an in-line, and you don't need both of those fuses. You can just go with an in-line fuse to either a positive buss, or to directly to the battery. A positive buss is the same type of distribution bar as your neg buss, only with a + lead feeding it. But it doesn't look like you need to get one since the only thing (?) connected to it would be the cig lighter. So, short answer?...cig lighter with an in-line fuse directly to the battery1 +.


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## franner11 (Mar 23, 2012)

Thanks RivRunR!!! Makes total sense.


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## RivRunR (Mar 23, 2012)

franner11 said:


> Thanks RivRunR!!! Makes total sense.


Wow! Never been accused of THAT before! :LOL2:


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## franner11 (Mar 27, 2012)

OK guys, pretty simple question:
I have purchased a blue sea main switch (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00445KFZ2/ref=oh_o01_s00_i01_details) to turn off power to the fuse panel when I'm done using my boat. If I don't have one of these installed, the lights on my fuse panel will remain on at all times.
That said, considering I will have a circuit breaker installed on the positive main line from the battery at about 7-12 inches away from the battery, do I simply put the main switch after the circuit breaker, or do I need to install another circuit breaker after the main switch before the fuse panel? Just want to do this correctly....


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## RivRunR (Mar 28, 2012)

franner11 said:


> OK guys, pretty simple question:
> I have purchased a blue sea main switch (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00445KFZ2/ref=oh_o01_s00_i01_details) to turn off power to the fuse panel when I'm done using my boat. If I don't have one of these installed, the lights on my fuse panel will remain on at all times.
> That said, considering I will have a circuit breaker installed on the positive main line from the battery at about 7-12 inches away from the battery, do I simply put the main switch after the circuit breaker, or do I need to install another circuit breaker after the main switch before the fuse panel? Just want to do this correctly....


Honestly I've never messed with a battery switch, but I would _think_ you'd put it in line after the breaker so the breaker didn't see any spikes when you turn the switch on...so it would go battery -> breaker -> switch -> panel. Again, I've never installed a battery switch so maybe other ppl will chime in.

I think you could also get the same result you're looking for by installing a simple on/off toggle switch on the negative feed to your fuse/switch panel.


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## Leelatt (Mar 28, 2012)

Franner, I'll post up pics this weekend when I work on installing the front deck on my tracker 1542 and show you what I did with adding in switches, I wish I saw this sooner to add in any advice for problems I encountered.

for switch panel I used: https://www.amazon.com/Seasense-Marine-Way-Switch-Panel/dp/B003E24MKA/ref=sr_1_1?s=sporting-goods&ie=UTF8&qid=1332951117&sr=1-1
which is then connected to this: https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems-Circuit-Ground/dp/B000THQ0CQ/ref=pd_cp_e_1

I have my bilge pump, bow fish finder, voltmeter, nav lights, and live well aerator hooked up to it and then a spare cell phone and Ipod transmitter in the boat for plugging in to charge my phone or play my ipod. 

all wiring from the switch panel to the fuse bus is 16 gauge wire. 
From the + and - terminals of the fuse bus I have 6 gauge wire running to the + and - terminals of a group 29 deep cycle battery.
the fuse bus and switch panel is on a console I fabricated that sits behind the middle bench on the starboard side, all wiring is running through a 1/2 inch pvc pipe in the starboard wall chine (groove) from bow to stern with a section missing where the wires run into the console. battery is also inside this console which I designed with a hatch.

for the trolling motor, I have a dedicated group 29 deep cycle battery in the stern compartment against the transom, which I have 6 gauge wire running from the + terminal to a 60 amp circuit breaker (MK brand) then from there and the - terminal of the battery I have 6 gauge wire running through a 1/2 inch pvc pipe that is in the port wall chine (groove) that runs from the stern to the bow bench, where I installed a trolling motor plug (saw this in baitcaster's livin large project) and have my endura c2 55# transom motor mounted on a fabricated bow mount. 

I'm pretty happy with the way it turned out and how it rides, I'll try to get pictures up asap for you, plus I need to post up my mods soon anyway.

-Lee


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## Jim (Mar 29, 2012)

I normally cant get to all the posts on the forum even though I try, but coming across this one and seeing the help from everyone is just awesome. So awesome! *You all rule and make this forum the best!* :USA1: :beer:


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## franner11 (Mar 30, 2012)

I agree, Jim - so helpful to have this group answer questions for me. Couldn't be doing my boat mod without this site and the insight form others.
Thank you all!!!
=D>


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## franner11 (Apr 10, 2012)

ok guys - really need your help!
i'm a bit confused now, but i might be on the right track...
i have 6wg going from the bat 1 positive to a 40 amp circuit breaker...and i was going to use 6awg to the fuse panel from that same circuit breaker, but the main positive line in on the fuse panel has 12 awg wire coming out of it. 

does that mean i really need 12 awg running from the circuit breaker to the fuse panel? what about the 6 awg from the battery to the cb - should that be 12 awg instead of 6 awg?

also, my cig lighter has 20 awg wire on it...can i run that to the fuse panel using 20 awg, or can i use the 16 awg i already got? no in line fuse now since it'll be running to the fuse panel?
thanks in advance!
~franner


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## RivRunR (Apr 11, 2012)

I'm not sure what you mean by _"the main positive line on the fuse panel has 12AWG coming out of it"_...do you mean the panel came equipped with 12AWG as the main feed...the #1 circled below?


If that's what you're looking at, I'd still go with 6AWG *IF* you can make a direct connection to the panel. Overkill on the wire gauge won't hurt anything, and assuming that your CB is correct at 40A, then 12AWG seems small. If you can't replace the installed 12AWG lead with the 6AWG, then you need to calculate your total amp draw coming thru the panel to make sure 12AWG will handle the load by checking one of the online charts. Don't try to splice/connect the 6 to the 12, that's just another potential fail point. And you can leave the battery-to-breaker at 6AWG regardless of what you end up with on the breaker-to-panel lead.

For the cig lighter it depends on the length of run, but again overkill on the gauge doesn't hurt, so you can run the 16AWG (both sides) if you can make direct connections at the plug.


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## franner11 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanks RivRunR!
Yes, the fuse panel came equipped with 12 awg as the main feed like the #1 circled in your diagram.
I think the total amp draw of the entire panel would be around 13 amps max:
Fish Finder 1 = .5-1 Amp
Fish finder 2 = .5-1 Amp
Cigarette Lighter = 3-4 Amps
Bilge = 2-3 Amps
Nav Lights = 1-2 Amps
Courtesy Lights = 1-2 Amps

The length of the run one way from the Bat 1 circuit breaker would be around 8-10 feet max. Am I correct in saying 12 awg should be OK to use? The chart seems to say yes: 15-20 amps running 8-12 feet should be ok with 12 awg...but if I have to double that one way run, it'd be 16-20 feet, which looks like it requires 10 or 8 awg....
If I can't switch out the 12 awg on the panel (which I don't think I could do), what are my options?
Thanks again!
Fran


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## RivRunR (Apr 11, 2012)

The length factor is for both sides, so your distance is 20' at 15Amps running thru the panel, which calcs out to be 8 - 10 AWG, depending on which chart.

Since your fish finders and cig plug don't need to be on a switch, one alternative (assuming you want to keep the switched fuse panel that you already have) could be:
1. Run your bilge (5A), navs (2A), and courtesy lights (2A) thru your existing switched fuse panel. That's 9A x 20' = 12AWG, so the switch panel's installed 12AWG will work, and
2. Run your finders (2A) and cig plug (4A) thru a separate fuse block, which would be 6A x 20' = 12-14AWG. This would mean you'd have to buy another fuse block and breaker to go with it. If that's not feasible, you _could_ go with in-lines for the finders and cig plug...I really don't like them, but it's been done that way before.

*or*...you could somehow reduce the run from the breaker to the panel to a total of 10' to make the panel's 12AWG ok.

Oh, and you mentioned that your breaker was 40A...that seems to be too big for the load you're running thru the switch panel, even if you were running everything thru it.


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## franner11 (Apr 11, 2012)

Thanky!
Yeah not looking to buy any more stuff than I have to. The distances I guessed are just that: conservative and probably way too long of runs. That said, I need to do some measuring when I get home and find out what the situation is, concisely. I'll probably end up using 10 awg.
Looks like I need a smaller circuit breaker. 15 amp? 20amp? 30 amp?
Kinda pissed I bought all the wrong stuff  But hey that's what happens when you make assumptions.


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## RivRunR (Apr 11, 2012)

Yep, your distance is a critical factor, so you need to know what that is before you make any decisions.

Your max amp draw thru the panel looks like 15A, so using a rule-of-thumb 135%, you'd want a 20A breaker.

Don't worry about not getting the right stuff (I've got a whole box full of it !), you're going about it the right way by figuring it out beforehand, instead of after you have a problem.


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## franner11 (Apr 11, 2012)

Ah you rock, RivRunR!!! I really appreciate your help!


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## franner11 (Apr 12, 2012)

On another note, I'm gonna go pick up a pristine Merc 25hp motor tonight!!! Hopefully I can sell my 8hp quickly, which will give me 3x the horsepower for only about $250 more than the 8hp!
WOOT!!!


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## RivRunR (Apr 12, 2012)

=D>


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## SmokerChris (Apr 12, 2012)

Im at the point where Im plotting out my electrical in order to buy the parts. No matter how much I read, I find Im still completely confused. This thread was extremely helpful, but by the end I wasnt sure if the original parts list was going to be correct for me. Maybe Ill just post my diagram and hope one of these few gentlemen can tell me exactly what I need based on the diagram. Still, this thread gave me some place to start. Thanks.


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## RivRunR (Apr 12, 2012)

A diagram is always good!


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## franner11 (Apr 12, 2012)

Here's my latest diagram based on the decisions I/we made in the last couple of days. Glad I could help you a little bit!


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## SmokerChris (Apr 16, 2012)

Thanks, that helps a lot. Its all the finer details on one drawing that makes all the difference for a confuses newbie like me. This was an extremely helpful thread!


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