# tohatsu 35 jet vs 40 mercury jet



## hotshotinn

i have been checkng into both and the mercury has 5 more horse power the tohatsu is lighter and is a two stroke the mercury is more weight but is a four stroke the shops here local say the tohatsu is better but the man at trout and sons say the mercury is number one in that class of horse power motor does anyone have any input about either jet motor this would be a tiller handle motor and would be installed on my 1448 for top performance


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## reedjj

Check again..... The Mercury is a 4 stroke 40hp powerhead that only puts out 29hp at the pump. Its a 4 stroke and weighs 267lbs dry..before you add engine oil https://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/jets/fourstroke-jet-outboards/

The Tohatsu is a 2 stroke 3 cylinder 50HP powerhead that puts out 35hp at the pump! And it ONLY weighs 196lbs. No engine oil to add to a 2 smoker either!!!! https://www.tohatsu.com/outboards/35jet_spec.html

2 stroke instant power, 5 more ponies, Cheaper, and its 71lbs lighter. My choice would be the Tohatsu! No way would I pay more for less power and 71 extra lbs! I have been looking at troutt and sons for a long time dreaming of a jet boat. Im pretty sure they have Mercs on most of thier boats. Which means they are a merc dealer. Which means they are going to try to sell you a merc.

If your worried about Tohatsu quality.. All Mercury and Nissan outboards under 35 hp are made by Tohatsu. The reason the Jet doesn't fall into that category is because its actually a 50 hp motor. Merc and Nissan put thier name on them so thats good enough for me.


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## hotshotinn

The man said the mercury 40 jet is a 60 horse powerhead and that makes it 40 hp at the pump.Tohatsu is 50 powerhead and makes 35 at the pump.Yamaha has one that is 40 powerhead and makes around 30 at the pump.Good thing about the mercury is the impeller is stainless steel and the others are alumanum.All of the above woulkd be good on my 1448 and if i can aford the mercury i will get it.I have plans of getting a bigger boat anyway so I could live with the extra weight and speed untill then


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## reedjj

I would trust the Manufacturers specs over a salesmans "word for it"! 

Yamaha specs here... they rate thiers at the powerhead as well. A 40hp is really putting out 30 at the pump https://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard/products/subcatspecs/3/specs.aspx


Your right though, any one of them would be cool on a 1448. Im jealous.


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## Lil' Blue Rude

If your buyin a jet buy a 2 stroke, plain and simple. If your putting a jet on it and it's under a 100hp OMC is the only way to go, no if and or buts about it.
Small mercs are dogs when you put a pump on them. Most of the time a 40/28 OMC can run with or out run a 60/40 merc.
That's my 2 cents.


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## lucescoflathead

I don't know how the Pennsylvania law rates it. If you have a 35/25 jet is it legal to run it on a 25 hp max boat,or are you asking for trouble? Just wandering. Todd


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## hotshotinn

I really wanted to buy a used OMC 40 or 50 horse and add a jet unit but they are very hard to find,i found one and that one was sold out from under me.I have found two others but they want to much money for them,by the time you buy the motor and add the new jet unit on them the price would put them over 5 grand.5 grand for used isnot smart so might as well buy new with a warranty.Maybe someone knows where I could buy a good used 40 or 50 OMC?


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## hotshotinn

I checked out the Mercury spec and they are 40/28 jet.Now why did the man at Trout and sons tell me they were 60/40 jets? [-X


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## Lil' Blue Rude

I wouldn't spend 5,000 on a motor either but I've never seen a 40hp price close to that around here. Be patient they're worth it.
As for the trouts guys, they could just be that goofy or it could be that it's not a factory jet so it would be a 60hp motor they've added a jet to. Either way 4 stroke are SLOW!!!


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## Lil' Blue Rude

https://stlouis.craigslist.org/boa/2430462656.html Found one.


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## yoda1

Hello, Just found this site by recomendation from trophyfishingtn site. I run a Wooldridge alaskan with a Yammy V-max. 150/105. Anyway just wanted to introduce myself.
Eric.


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## reedjj

hotshotinn said:


> I checked out the Mercury spec and they are 40/28 jet.Now why did the man at Trout and sons tell me they were 60/40 jets? [-X



I thought you got that when I posted the links to the merc and Tohatsu web sites on my earlier posts and quoted them to you?

They told you that because they are trying to sell you a motor!!!!!!!!!!! That and half the kids that work at dealer ships don't know what the heck they are talking about. 

Most newer motors are rated at the prop and reflect that rating on the cowling sticker. In the old days they were rated at the motor and it was up to you to find out how much hp was lost at the prop after you bought it.

Jets still seem to do it the old way. Every jet motor I have looked at has been rated at the motor.. Except the Tohatsu. It is rated at the jet. Maybe its becuase the jet lower unit is an after market item or something. Either way always check the specs.

Find a salesman that knows what he's talking about too! Maybe Current River Marine??? I called them and talked for about 30 min one time and they were friendly and knowledgeable....When I say knowledgeable, I mean he knew the history of jet outboards where they originated and why, different applications and what size boat would run best with what size motor and how to set it up for different applications. Benefits of tunnel hull and non tunnel hull boats, chine design. All kinds of stuff. More than enough to convince me that I would drive from FL to Doniphan MO to buy a Blazer or Gator jet boat if and when the time/money comes that I can do so.

Maybe the guy was new and just didn't know what he was talking about? I doubt he lied to you about it intentionally, but it would be enough to make me not trust him. If they have been helpfull other wise, maybe just talk to the sales manager or speak to someone that hs been there a little longer and has some experience with jets.


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## Lawnman

The reason the guy at t&s told you it was a 40 is because it's a true 40 at the jet foot, those guys really know their stuff. The new merc 4 stroke jets are measured at the output of the jet. I have the 25 4 stroke merc and it's night and day difference between it and the old 25/20 2 stoke. Looking at the chart the 40 hp 4 stoke should handle about 1300-1400 lbs gross weight. The fuel economy and quietness of the is worth it for the 4 stroke. Just my 2 cents


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## red450r

The stickers on the cowling of the new yamaha jets are the hp out of the pump but yet the model number says the powerhead hp, so atleast they are labeled correctly, if you're looking for a factory warranty they offer a 60/40 and a 40/30, I've owned both, never had a minutes trouble


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## red450r

Have you gotten a price quote on the tohatsu? Just wondering what they cost because its an excellent hp/weight ratio


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## reedjj

Lawnman said:


> The reason the guy at t&s told you it was a 40 is because it's a true 40 at the jet foot, those guys really know their stuff. The new merc 4 stroke jets are measured at the output of the jet. I have the 25 4 stroke merc and it's night and day difference between it and the old 25/20 2 stoke. Looking at the chart the 40 hp 4 stoke should handle about 1300-1400 lbs gross weight. The fuel economy and quietness of the is worth it for the 4 stroke. Just my 2 cents



According to the Mercury website https://www.mercurymarine.com/engines/jets/fourstroke-jet-outboards/ the 25hp EFI jet fourstroke is really only 18.4hp at the Jet. If they measured it at the jet it would be called the 18 Mercury jet fourstroke?

And the 40EFI hp jet fourstroke would be called the 29 EFI jet fourstroke. 

If they are measuring it at the Jet then why do they name it by the hp of the powerhead????


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## Lawnman

I'm not sure why it is like that on the website. They also have the same hp at the prop listed the 4 stroke prop model as the jet. All I can tell you by experience the difference between the 2 stroke 25/20 and the 25 4 stroke is significant. I would call mercury and ask them about the specs.


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## JohnnyRazorhead

I have a 2010 60/40 Mercury 4 stroke jet on a 16 ft. Alweld. I bought them new from Trout and Sons. It is a 60 powerhead with 40 HP at the pump. They do come standard with a stainless impeller. My boat is completely decked out with carpet, center console, livewell, trolling motor, etc and with just me in it I can GPS 31 consistently. Joe knows his stuff.


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## Lil' Blue Rude

Easiest way to tell if it's a true 60hp at the powerhead is by the size of the impeller. If it ain't a turning a 6 7/8" impeller it's not a 60hp plain and simple. Most 4 stroke mercs I've seen have the medium size pump turning th 6 1/8" impellers so that means they're 40/28, not sayin all of them are because it wouldn't be any big deal at all to buy a 60hp and bolt a jet to it, alot of shops do it like that, that might be what Trouts been doing. If you really want to know find out what size impeller it turns and how many cube the motors are, most of the times a 40hp and the 60hp models are diffrent cubic inches but the 40-50hp models have the same cube.
Four strokes probably do better on gas but when they're wide opoen they don't seem like they're that much quiter, kinda sound annoying to me.
All in all though a two stroke beats a four stroke out for power.


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## JohnnyRazorhead

They come from mercury with the jets already attached and carry the full mercury warranty. They have the medium jet on the 60/40. the 40 EFI jet has the same displacement as the 60 EFI motor. Both are 4 cylinder also. The mercury website is very confusing to say the least. If you think Troutt and Sons don't know their business, call outboard jets direct and ask them. I did with a technical question about boat and motor configuration and they referred me to Joe Troutt!

By the way, The jet is the same size as I had on my old OMC 40/30 jet. The 40/30 2 stroke could not keep up with the 40
merc 4 stroke. My nephew has my old boat and we have run side by side many times. If the 40 merc were 40/30, the OMC
should be able to keep up with it since the OMC is on a lighter boat. It can not. It is about a 25 MPH boat. My heavier Alweld is a 31 MPH boat with the 60/40 merc.

The 4 stroke on a jet is not much quieter than a 2 stroke if any at all. The sound is deeper. It is nice not to have to mix fuel in a 4 stroke and the mileage is noticeably better. Warranty is better on 4 stroke. Downside, 4 strokes cost more, are heavier, and don't have as quick of a response.

I am not a mercury fanboy by any means and owned a small chain of boat dealerships for years before selling out. I have run most everything. If you are looking for ultra low maintainence go 4 stroke. If speed is your need 2 stroke is what you're needing.

Sorry so long winded. Hope this helps.


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## Lil' Blue Rude

My bad, I'm use to the 2 strokes. Every 60hp 2 stroke I've seen turns a 6 7/8 impeller, and any smaller then that turnerd the 6 1/8. 
I've never seen a 4 stroker that would touch a 2 stroke let alone a omc. Boat conditions and setup has as much to do with how they run as wiehgt does. Put the 40/30 on the alwed or vice versa and I think the numbers would be alot closer.
Thanks for straihgting me out on the 4 stroke. How many rpm's does yours turn?


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## JohnnyRazorhead

My 4 stroke turns 5000 rpm. My personal take on the 2 vs. 4 stroke on jets is very little top end difference if they are turning the same rpm. 2 stroke has slight speed advantage due to less weight. 2 stroke is much quicker out of the hole and onto plane. 4 strokes get atleast 25 to 50% better mileage and no oil to mix. (also no smoke though newer 2 strokes smoke very little). you do have to change the oil and filter on 4 strokes. 4 strokes are very low maintainence (just like a new car engine).
It is really personal preference but each meets a need. For my personal needs I figure if I want speed I need more than a 40 to start with  














5


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## Anonymous

When you look at the Mercury's specification sheet it measures power in HP (horse power) and Kw (Kilowatt)

"HP/Kw @ Prop" 

40HP = 29 Kw

They are a 60HP powerhead, but only put out 40HP at the impeller (prop) because of the jets inefficiency. 

I have a late 80's Johnson 40hp powerhead (28 at jet) on my 1648 and am looking at upgrading to something more efficient and powerful.


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## Lil' Blue Rude

kgrant said:


> When you look at the Mercury's specification sheet it measures power in HP (horse power) and Kw (Kilowatt)
> 
> "HP/Kw @ Prop"
> 
> 40HP = 29 Kw
> 
> They are a 60HP powerhead, but only put out 40HP at the impeller (prop) because of the jets inefficiency.
> 
> I have a late 80's Johnson 40hp powerhead (28 at jet) on my 1648 and am looking at upgrading to something more efficient and powerful.


If you want some more power out of your johnson buy a set of 50hp carbs and shave about .030" off of the head and that should be noticible diffrence without breaking the bank. Set of reeds will make it a little more responsive, make sure to lap the reed cages so they seal up good.


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## Anonymous

Thanks Blue Rude, I'll keep that in mind.

Anybody have any real experience with the Mercury 60/40 4-stroke? How many GPH does it burn?


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## JohnnyRazorhead

I'm not real sure on the GPH but I can get about 42 gps miles on 10 gallons of fuel at near wide open throttle with 2 people in
a 1652 Alweld. Just over 4 miles per gallon. My boat runs 30 to 31 gps mph so that would be near 7.5 gph......I think. :?: .


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## Anonymous

I thought it would have burned less than that, my 1988 Johnson 40/28 2-smoke burns a little less than that at WOT.


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## Toby from MO

I haven't been on this board in a looong time but a recent private message alert from KGrant in my email brought me back for a look see.

my 2 cents...

The newer 40 4-Stroke Merc is definately 40 at the foot...60 powerhead. Mine burns 4.4 gallons/hour at WOT per my Mercury SmartCraft gauges. It runs 30-31mph (gps) on an 1852 modified v...fully decked front/rear, rod locker, 3 livewells, 3 batteries, and a full 12 gallon fuel cell...not to mention the bottom of my boat is beat to hell.

There are several Tohatsu's on the stretch of river I run. They may be a decent motor but I've not yet run across a 50/35 Tohatsu that even come close...regardless of boat. Not to mention good luck getting them worked on.

I do agree on the 2-stroke OMC's. The later model 60/40's and 90/65's will flat run and have good potential for mods for building bigger power. The even older 88 Specials are also great motors and I hear were under estimated on HP. That said, out of the box, the 2005 & older Merc 60/40 strokes were more like 66-67 horse power and would run real good but had less potential for make more power with mods.

As far as buying a new motor...shop around. I won't say names but the installed price of my Merc 60/40, including the SmartCraft gauges, was several hundred less than the next closest selling price minus gauges & installation.


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## reedjj

I took another look at the specs becuase I couldn't understand how the 40EFI jet fourstroke can be the exact same specs CC's, bore& stroke, 4 cylinders and all as the 40hp bigfoot motor and still put out 40hp at the jet. I thought they lost power when converted to a jet?

After taking another even closer look I noticed that the 40hp bigfoot had 4 cylinders, and was 995 CC's and the regular 40hp and the 40hp EFI were both 3 cylinder motors with 747 CC's.

Interestingly enough the 60hp EFI also has the exact same specs as the 40hp EFI Bigfoot...bore/stroke, CC's, 4 cylinders and everything.

The only difference is that the 40 EFI bigfoot has a gear ratio of 2.33:1 and the 60 EFI has a ratio of 1.83:1 (that is of no consequence when you pull the lower unit off an put jet drive on)...So they share the same power head just like Toby From Mo said.

The 60 EFI weighs a little less than the 40EFI bigfoot but I imagine the extra weight is in the "Big Foot".

This all means that the fourstroke 40Jet is really a 40EFI bigfoot (which is really a 60 EFI) with a Jet unit on it. NOT a 40hp or a 40EFI with a jet unit.

I was totally wrong in all my other posts. I apologize for the bad info, and for saying anything bad about troutt and sons. The sales guy was right and obviously knows his stuff! I was wrong, and obviously have no idea what im talking about!

NOW.... Why doesn't mercury make thier website easier to understand. Just tell me how much HP the dang thing has! I shouldn't have to do all this research to find it all out, and make a public fool of myself by quoting thier site and posting links to it to try and clear things up.... HP/kw @ prop gimme a break already! It sure looks like they mean 40/30???? Why don't they just say 60/40????

Its just like when they sell a 15hp for 2x what a 9.9hp is. We all know its the same motor with a different carb.


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## Lil' Blue Rude

Don't worry about it, I looked kinda dumb talking about them turning a 6 7/8 impeller if they where 60hp. Most 60hp 2 strokes turned the 6 7/8 impellers so I assumed they did to.  
I think the mercs should turn more then 5000rpms if they're making 60hp at the powerhead turning a 6 1/8 impeller. Most stock 40/28 omc's turn atleast 5500rpm if not more.


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## hotshotinn

I have talked to trout and Sons again and the man has kind of made up my mind for me.Its will be a Mercury for my boat.In that hp range Mercury wins hands down for a new motor.If buying used others might be better but I think I will be buying new and I have really been thinking about makeing a road trip to Trout and sons so I can bring home a new 1752 Blazer with the mercury tiller handle jet four stroker onit.They will put a nice perforated floor init and I will allso have a livewell init.I would then install a 70 or 80 pound MinnKota trolling motor onit


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## JohnnyRazorhead

I don't have the smart guages, but mine burns way more than 4.4 gph. I wish mine got that good. I only have a 10 gallon tank in my boat. 

The mercury website is way confusing. I had the same questions when I was in the market to buy. T & S would tell me 
one thing but the mercury site didn't support this info. Turned out T & S was right. I don't know what their service is like
since I live to far away to make servicing my boat there impractical, but their knowledge of the boats and motors seems top notch.

I think you will be happy with your decision on the motor. If not, it is a good excuse to get another new boat in a year or two a  nyway!


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## hotshotinn

I wish i lived closer to trout company as its a long ways to that place from Michigan.I would to see one of the Blazer boats before I buoght but a road trip two times is out of the question.Blazer boats get good review so it may be worth the chance to buy sight unseen.Other options would be to by a boat here then setup the boat myself with the jet power


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## JohnnyRazorhead

this is pure speculation as I do not know for sure but I bet the Blazer would be faster and lighter than the alwelds. I bought the alweld for some custom features I wanted,but the Blazer definately looks more sporty. I think it is a lighter guage aluminum than alwelds (which wouldnt make any difference to me). good luck on your new rig.


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## Lil' Blue Rude

JohnnyRazorhead said:


> this is pure speculation as I do not know for sure but I bet the Blazer would be faster and lighter than the alwelds. I bought the alweld for some custom features I wanted,but the Blazer definately looks more sporty. I think it is a lighter guage aluminum than alwelds (which wouldnt make any difference to me). good luck on your new rig.


I'd bet money the blazer is faster and lighter then the alwelds. Most balzers are .080" gauge.


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## hotshotinn

Trout said the blazer can be 80 or 100 thickness and he recomends .80 for my kind of rivers.Trout said the price would be about the same as far as Blazer to Alweld.The boat I have now is only 63 thickness and it works out good for me for now and that boat is a 1448 with a 30 horce power rateing.Putting a 35 Tohatsu would be a nice combo with that light of boat and the 40 mercury would be even better so a desision has to be made as far as buying a hole new rig or repowering.If i buy a new motor I can allways buy a new boat and put that motor onit.I am going to do some thinking asto what will be done,all I know is I want a bigger motor and a bigger boat but the 14 footer is nice as its a easy unloader and loader,I have unloaded it right on the grass bank and pushed it into the river when no ramp was in the area.Bad thing about new motors and boats is the money that has to be spent.Sometimes i wish I could just get a 40 0r 50 OMC and put a jet unit onit for a reasonable price but only one has come my way and the man sold it out from under me.


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## blw

Lot of good info in this thread.
Toby from MO ,what size and make is your boat ? Console located where or stick steer ? Does it plane off pretty quick ?

JohnnyRazorhead, How wide is your boat ? Console located where or stick steer ? Does it plane off pretty quick ?

Thanks in advance !!


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## fender66

> I don't know what their service is like since I live to far away to make servicing my boat there impractical, but their knowledge of the boats and motors seems top notch.



I can tell you that I've NEVER had better service. When the bearing in my jet went out early last year, I called them to see if they had the parts in stock. They did, so I left early on a Saturday to go pick it up. It's about 1 1/2 hour drive for me and just to be safe, I took my entire lower unit and foot with me. When I got there, they were very friendly. I bought the part and asked a couple questions when the son, Chris, asked me if I had my lower unit with me. I told him it was in my trunk. He said, "Well then pull around to that door and get it in here". He not only installed the bearing for me for free, but he added a new impeller and adjusted the gate, re-greased and I left with a totally new (rebuilt) lower unit. They only charged me for the parts.
That is why I went back to them when I was shopping for my current boat. Turns out that they didn't have what I was looking for, but had a customer that did have one for sale. They arranged for him to bring the boat in for me to take a look at it. When I got there, they handled everything including all paperwork and title info. The owner showed up to sign his name and for me to give HIM a check. Before I made the deal, I asked Troutt if they could put in another seat base on the floor and give the entire boat a once over. They didn't even flinch. Turned out that the livewell pump was burned up and they installed a brand new one for me without charging me a dime. If I need service again (hopefully not)...I will make the 1 1/2 hour drive back to them. They really did give me the best service that I've ever had. I can't say enough good about my experiences there.

NO, I AM NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THEM OTHER THAN BEING A CUSTOMER.


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## red450r

That's GREAT customer service, wish there was a dealer here like that.


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## JohnnyRazorhead

JohnnyRazorhead, How wide is your boat ? Console located where or stick steer ? Does it plane off pretty quick ?

Thanks in advance !![/quote]

It is a 1652 with a center console . I have a 9 foot front deck and a 4 foot rear deck. both are level with the sides of the boat. It is carpeted, livewell, tm, etc. It is a shallow water fly fishing rig. With a light load it will jump right up on plane.
loaded it takes a little longer. It could stand some more horsepower for the heavier loads. with just me and my equipment it will gps 31 mph. I have ran it many time in an honest 3 to 4 inches of water.


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## blw

Thanks JohnnyRazorhead,What brand of boat do you have? What gauge and do you possibly have any pictures ?
Thanks,BLW


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## JohnnyRazorhead

blw said:


> Thanks JohnnyRazorhead,What brand of boat do you have? What gauge and do you possibly have any pictures ?
> Thanks,BLW


It is an Alweld. .100 I don't have any pics but am planning to go fishing tomorrow morning and will get some then.


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## silver99gt

wow you guys are quick to bash troutt and sons. I live 15 mins from their shop and its a family run business. been the same people working there for 30 years. they know their stuff and dont care whether they sell you a motor or not they will try to set you on the right track. Maybe some information was misinterpreted. Kind of what im leaning towards. Before you buy a motor, check on warranty length of each motor, and also check and see how much parts are in case you would ever need to buy a starter or waterpump. Yamaha engines are known for having really expensive electronics on them. Every engine is different. I agree though i'd deff go with a 2 stroke than a 4 stroke that small of an engine, but i doubt i'd go with tohatsu. Around here its pretty common for 100 jet boats to be on the gasconade river at the same time. All different brands. Walk up to a crowd and tell them you're thinking of buying a tohatsu instead of omc or merc and they'll laugh. I havent seen many of these outboards on the water, but the ones i have seen i was very unimpressed.


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## Bull Butter

> reedjj wrote: Check again..... The Mercury is a 4 stroke 40hp powerhead that only puts out 29hp at the pump.



That is wrong..... I had a 2003 Mercury 60EO Jet, 40 at the pump. This motor was on a Lowe Roughneck 1652. I now have a 2011 Tohatsu 50/35 Jet on a Lowe 1448... The Mercury motor seemed to be more powerful even though it was pushing a larger boat. I really wish i had it back.


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## reedjj

reedjj said:


> I took another look at the specs becuase I couldn't understand how the 40EFI jet fourstroke can be the exact same specs CC's, bore& stroke, 4 cylinders and all as the 40hp bigfoot motor and still put out 40hp at the jet. I thought they lost power when converted to a jet?
> 
> After taking another even closer look I noticed that the 40hp bigfoot had 4 cylinders, and was 995 CC's and the regular 40hp and the 40hp EFI were both 3 cylinder motors with 747 CC's.
> 
> Interestingly enough the 60hp EFI also has the exact same specs as the 40hp EFI Bigfoot...bore/stroke, CC's, 4 cylinders and everything.
> 
> The only difference is that the 40 EFI bigfoot has a gear ratio of 2.33:1 and the 60 EFI has a ratio of 1.83:1 (that is of no consequence when you pull the lower unit off an put jet drive on)...So they share the same power head just like Toby From Mo said.
> 
> The 60 EFI weighs a little less than the 40EFI bigfoot but I imagine the extra weight is in the "Big Foot".
> 
> This all means that the fourstroke 40Jet is really a 40EFI bigfoot (which is really a 60 EFI) with a Jet unit on it. NOT a 40hp or a 40EFI with a jet unit.
> 
> I was totally wrong in all my other posts. I apologize for the bad info, and for saying anything bad about troutt and sons. The sales guy was right and obviously knows his stuff! I was wrong, and obviously have no idea what im talking about!
> 
> NOW.... Why doesn't mercury make thier website easier to understand. Just tell me how much HP the dang thing has! I shouldn't have to do all this research to find it all out, and make a public fool of myself by quoting thier site and posting links to it to try and clear things up.... HP/kw @ prop gimme a break already! It sure looks like they mean 40/30???? Why don't they just say 60/40????
> 
> Its just like when they sell a 15hp for 2x what a 9.9hp is. We all know its the same motor with a different carb.



I posted this on page 2..


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