# Towing with sedans



## thatkidhugo (Jan 23, 2012)

So I have a 14ft semi v which is really light, I can easily move the trailer around with no problems at all.

I checked out the owners manual for my 2004 Mitsubishi lancer ralliart 2.4ltr (165hp/165tq) and it says no towing allowed :| 

I called u-haul and got a quote for a hitch and wire harness and I thought it would be a lot more expensive. So U-haul DOES make hitches for my car.

Now onto the question, is it safe to tow with my car?


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Jan 23, 2012)

Probably play hell on your tranny.


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## gillhunter (Jan 23, 2012)

thatkidhugo said:


> So I have a 14ft semi v which is really light, I can easily move the trailer around with no problems at all.
> 
> I checked out the owners manual for my 2004 Mitsubishi lancer ralliart 2.4ltr (165hp/165tq) and it says no towing allowed :|
> 
> ...



Is the engined turbo charged?


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## thatkidhugo (Jan 23, 2012)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> Probably play hell on your tranny.



That's expected with any car or truck tho.. isnt it? A friend of mine has a 2010 f150 harley davidson edition.. he tows his seadoo and says that his tranny isnt the same with the seadoo on.



gillhunter said:


> Is the engined turbo charged?



No, the engine isnt turbo charged.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 23, 2012)

I have seen plenty of sedans hauling light boats....usually bigger cars like a taurus, crown Vic or a station wagon...tin boats are pretty light.

The hard part is that most sedans are front wheel drive and ideally you should have 4 wheel drive or rear wheel drive.


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## TNtroller (Jan 23, 2012)

30 years ago I towed a 15' glass boat with a 50 rudie with a Toyota Corolla 4 banger 5sp, was always an interesting trip to say the least. At least the Corolla was RWD back then, but I DEFINATELY knew the boat was back there when I was needing to stop or slow down. Took a while to get up some speed as well, was a funny sight for sure.


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## Jay D (Jan 23, 2012)

I did similarly with a 1990 corolla station wagon and my 14' Richline V hull. 105 hp I believe and front wheel drive. If you are pulling it less than 20-25miles and you drive it like a little old lady you will be fine. Slow and slow down before you get there to a stop. a 14 ft weighs usually 160lbs, motor 80, troller30,battery 45 etc. you are talking less than 800 lbs unless your carrying 4 or 5 cases of beer with ice. [-X :wink:


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## Jay D (Jan 23, 2012)

I did similarly with a 1990 corolla station wagon and my 14' Richline V hull. 105 hp I believe and front wheel drive. If you are pulling it less than 20-25miles and you drive it like a little old lady you will be fine. Slow and slow down before you get there to a stop. a 14 ft weighs usually 160lbs, motor 80, troller30,battery 45 etc. you are talking less than 800 lbs unless your carrying 4 or 5 cases of beer with ice. [-X :wink:


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## JMichael (Jan 23, 2012)

thatkidhugo said:


> RiverBottomOutdoors said:
> 
> 
> > Probably play hell on your tranny.
> ...


No. I've got a 97 F150 4x4 with towing package. I can load my ATV, generator and all my camping/hunting supplies on my trailer and the only time I notice it being back there is going up a long incline. The only thing I notice about that is I have to give it more gas to maintain speed. 

I think the 2 things you might need to be concerned about would be transmission wear (most likely a light duty trans) and hitch attachment. Some cars don't have a frame that extends back far enough to attach the hitch to and I've seen some where the bumpers were pulled off because the bumper and it's mounting weren't designed with towing in mind.


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## skysail (Jan 24, 2012)

I'm gonna tow my boat with a wrx, I've seen people tow way bigger boats than mine with small cars. As long as your brakes are ok and can handle it I don't see why not


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## LCfishing (Jan 24, 2012)

I have seen people doing it here in Louisiana but I would not do it personlally lol. I would be scared pulling it off the ramp lol. Especially when it gets wet and the ramp is steep.


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## JMichael (Jan 24, 2012)

LCfishing said:


> I have seen people doing it here in Louisiana but I would not do it personlally lol. I would be scared pulling it off the ramp lol. *Especially when it gets wet and the ramp is steep.*



Yea, I've seen that a few times also. In one case, the car started spinning badly and the driver started to panic. I thought the car was going to end up in the water. Ended up with the car having to be towed up the ramp by another vehicle. :lol:


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## Butthead (Jan 24, 2012)

skysail said:


> I'm gonna tow my boat with a wrx, I've seen people tow way bigger boats than mine with small cars. As long as your brakes are ok and can handle it I don't see why not



A WRX would be a decent car to do it with. I've seen a bunch of them around MD/DC with hitches, both sedan and sw, and have personally seen them pulling canoes and kayaks on trailers as well as tins as big as 14'.

I would feel comfortable pulling my tin with my wife's FWD CRV, and that's essentially an Accord with a body kit. :lol:


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## Jdholmes (Jan 24, 2012)

I think the above posters said something you should take heed of, though. Yes you can haul, but be careful at the ramps. Check out the ramps you will be using, if they are very steep I would steer clear. Not all ramps are created equal.


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## wihil (Jan 25, 2012)

I tow my 12'er with a first gen 1.8lr Honda CRV (which might as well be a Civic with a detuned Integra motor). Pulls it along just fine, and with the pseudo 4 wheel I haven't had an issue at ramps. I'd feel okay pulling up to a light 16' with it, but nothing heavy that's for sure. I'd probably not stick it quite so deep in the ramp either.

The only thing I can't stand about it is how often if shifts around when going into the wind/up/down hills, but to be fair that stupid car is always shifting (thanks in part to poor gearing and a high reving motor, way to go Honda).


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## BtsNhoS (Jan 25, 2012)

im a mechanic and you should have no problem towing with that car. As long as the trailer+boat does not weigh more than 1000lbs there shouldnt be a problem. The problem you might have is clearance on ramps and if it sits extremely low in the back end, speed bumps, driveways etc. could cause some trouble plus there is more where and tear on your brakes. Drive it slow and steady and if its a standard make sure you have lower rpm shifts


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## JamesM56alum (Jan 26, 2012)

This is a pretty touchy subject with some people, iv worked in shops most of my life im a mechanic by trade and pulling boats with cars is not a good idea. One reason is stopping, just because you can pull it with no problem doesnt mean you should because you also have to worry about stopping it, front disc rear drum brake systems are horrid on cars and small vans, the brakes are already maxed out just from the weight of the car and the passengers in it, i cant tell you how many brake jobs iv done on front disc rear drum when either the pads glaze over because they over heat or the rotors are a very pretty shade of blue/black because the persons calipers sized up an they warped the rotors. 

Tranny problems are an issue also, take the ford windstar for an example, the 3.0 ford engine and transmission that are in the van is the same exact engine and tranny thats in the ford taurus, the van weighs about 1200lbs more, so pulling with the van to begin with is a bad idea because the trannys are already stressed because they werent designed to put up with that much load and added heat. 

And last but not least, trailer sway.. light cars and vans cannot handle the trailers when they dogtrack down the road "Sway back an forth" the assend of the vans and cars will start swaying with the trailer and boom you're out of control and if your lucky in the ditch. 

This video is a great example why u shouldnt pull with anything less than a SUV or smaller pickup
https://youtu.be/mfLnLwFcSBc

Im not trying to piss any one off that does, just trying to shed some educated light on the issue at hand.


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## BtsNhoS (Jan 26, 2012)

JamesM56alum said:


> This is a pretty touchy subject with some people, iv worked in shops most of my life im a mechanic by trade and pulling boats with cars is not a good idea. One reason is stopping, just because you can pull it with no problem doesnt mean you should because you also have to worry about stopping it, front disc rear drum brake systems are horrid on cars and small vans, the brakes are already maxed out just from the weight of the car and the passengers in it, i cant tell you how many brake jobs iv done on front disc rear drum when either the pads glaze over because they over heat or the rotors are a very pretty shade of blue/black because the persons calipers sized up an they warped the rotors.
> 
> Tranny problems are an issue also, take the ford windstar for an example, the 3.0 ford engine and transmission that are in the van is the same exact engine and tranny thats in the ford taurus, the van weighs about 1200lbs more, so pulling with the van to begin with is a bad idea because the trannys are already stressed because they werent designed to put up with that much load and added heat.
> 
> ...



exactly. i personally believe that if it is a small boat/trailer such as a 10-12ft job boat with trailer, there shouldnt be any trouble. but dont do like the guy in the video did and pull something that heavy [-X haha


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## bassboy1 (Jan 26, 2012)

BtsNhoS said:


> ...and if its a standard make sure you have lower rpm shifts



What is the rationale behind that?


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## Jdholmes (Jan 26, 2012)

bassboy1 said:


> BtsNhoS said:
> 
> 
> > ...and if its a standard make sure you have lower rpm shifts
> ...



I wondered the same thing, but was afraid I might be the only one...


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## JamesM56alum (Jan 27, 2012)

Keeping the RPM's low keeps the clutch plate from slipping when pulling with a manual trans also if the roads are wet it will keep the tires from breaking loose under a load because if you're not smooth on the shifting the car will jerk just enough when u let off the clutch the tires will break loose and either you wont go any where or you might walk the front end of the car around into the car beside you.



Jdholmes said:


> bassboy1 said:
> 
> 
> > BtsNhoS said:
> ...


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## BtsNhoS (Jan 27, 2012)

JamesM56alum said:


> Keeping the RPM's low keeps the clutch plate from slipping when pulling with a manual trans also if the roads are wet it will keep the tires from breaking loose under a load because if you're not smooth on the shifting the car will jerk just enough when u let off the clutch the tires will break loose and either you wont go any where or you might walk the front end of the car around into the car beside you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Couldn't have said it better myself, thanks man. It's really just a safety thing and a little easier on your tranny


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## Butthead (Jan 27, 2012)

JamesM56alum said:


> This is a pretty touchy subject with some people, iv worked in shops most of my life im a mechanic by trade and pulling boats with cars is not a good idea. One reason is stopping, just because you can pull it with no problem doesnt mean you should because you also have to worry about stopping it, front disc rear drum brake systems are horrid on cars and small vans, the brakes are already maxed out just from the weight of the car and the passengers in it, i cant tell you how many brake jobs iv done on front disc rear drum when either the pads glaze over because they over heat or the rotors are a very pretty shade of blue/black because the persons calipers sized up an they warped the rotors.
> 
> Tranny problems are an issue also, take the ford windstar for an example, the 3.0 ford engine and transmission that are in the van is the same exact engine and tranny thats in the ford taurus, the van weighs about 1200lbs more, so pulling with the van to begin with is a bad idea because the trannys are already stressed because they werent designed to put up with that much load and added heat.
> 
> ...



Okay, just because I like a good debate...  

You don't recommend cars towing, but based on your statement and example, "Tranny problems are an issue also, take the ford windstar for an example, the 3.0 ford engine and transmission that are in the van is the same exact engine and tranny thats in the ford taurus, the van weighs about 1200lbs more, so pulling with the van to begin with is a bad idea because the trannys are already stressed because they werent designed to put up with that much load and added heat." it would seem that the Taurus would be the better vehicle, of these two, to tow with.

And the video is very much on the extreme end of car towing. He was pulling 2500+ pounds with a station wagon. Seems pretty crazy in my book.



wihil said:


> I tow my 12'er with a first gen 1.8lr Honda CRV (which might as well be a Civic with a detuned Integra motor). Pulls it along just fine, and with the pseudo 4 wheel I haven't had an issue at ramps. I'd feel okay pulling up to a light 16' with it, but nothing heavy that's for sure. I'd probably not stick it quite so deep in the ramp either.
> 
> The only thing I can't stand about it is how often if shifts around when going into the wind/up/down hills, but to be fair that stupid car is always shifting (thanks in part to poor gearing and a high reving motor, way to go Honda).


Revving to 8600rpms on my Honda K20 is nothing but fun! Way to go Honda, lol. :twisted:


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## JamesM56alum (Jan 27, 2012)

Aparently you didnt actually read everything i posted, Sedans arent heavy enough now adays to handle any trailer sway maybe back in the 70's or earlier when they still weighd as much as a half ton truck, reguardless of how uneducated some people are that do tow with them Its a common sense kinda thing i used the video as an example of trailer sway not what he was towing, obviously the overloaded tongue weight amplified the sway.

Now give me an example of a GOOD reason to tow with a sedan ? .....



Butthead said:


> JamesM56alum said:
> 
> 
> > This is a pretty touchy subject with some people, iv worked in shops most of my life im a mechanic by trade and pulling boats with cars is not a good idea. One reason is stopping, just because you can pull it with no problem doesnt mean you should because you also have to worry about stopping it, front disc rear drum brake systems are horrid on cars and small vans, the brakes are already maxed out just from the weight of the car and the passengers in it, i cant tell you how many brake jobs iv done on front disc rear drum when either the pads glaze over because they over heat or the rotors are a very pretty shade of blue/black because the persons calipers sized up an they warped the rotors.
> ...


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## crabtree (Jan 28, 2012)

JamesM56alum said:


> Aparently you didnt actually read everything i posted, Sedans arent heavy enough now adays to handle any trailer sway maybe back in the 70's or earlier when they still weighd as much as a half ton truck, reguardless of how uneducated some people are that do tow with them Its a common sense kinda thing i used the video as an example of trailer sway not what he was towing, obviously the overloaded tongue weight amplified the sway.
> 
> Now give me an example of a GOOD reason to tow with a sedan ? .....
> 
> ...




Gas Mileage. I have an F250 diesel and it's expensive to drive. I'm currently looking to get a 14-16' jon to tow with my 4 cylinder corolla.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 28, 2012)

I do it with a 1/4 tonne ranger with a 4 cylinder + standard tranny...other than my rear wheel drive I don't see what the difference would to a large sedan...I guess maybe the weight as you say would be a benefit...


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## WaterbedWarrior (Jan 29, 2012)

My current rig a 1968 12' SeaNymph, I pull with my 2010 Toyota Prius. Have yet to have any problems, towing, launching or recovering.

I picked up my new boat this past week, a 1988 17' Sylvan Scout tinny with 25hp outboard (pics and mod to come soon) and towed it 1.5 hours to get it home without any issues behind my Prius. 

I live in Cleveland and am towing on fairly flat ground (no mountains).
Biggest difference I can tell on my car while towing is fuel economy, I normally get around 50 mpg and pulling my new 17 footer home at 55 mph, was only getting 36 mpg average. Not much to complain about since most vehicles can't get 36 mpg without the boat, much less with it.

Go slow, easy on the gas, leave plenty of room to stop and you should be fine. 
Biggest mistake many make is not enough tongue weight, which will increase trailer sway.

And since I've been lurking for a bit, this would be the time to thank you all for a great site and some awesome mods. I've been stealing ideas right and left for my new boat.


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## Butthead (Jan 29, 2012)

Gas mileage was exactly what I was going to say as well. If I only owned the tin and didn't need to haul crap fairly regularly, I would save myself well over $1000 a year by getting rid of my truck.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Jan 29, 2012)

[/quote]

That Prius may sing a different tune if she was pulling in the hills Virginny. ;-)


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## Jdholmes (Jan 29, 2012)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


>



That Prius may sing a different tune if she was pulling in the hills Virginny. ;-)[/quote]

Hahaha...true that...I can honestly say I have never seen a Prius with a hitch.


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## WaterbedWarrior (Jan 29, 2012)

Yep, I sometimes get some strange looks when I'm towing my boat or hauling back building supplies from Lowe's on my utility trailer. 
Simple fact is you don't need a big diesel dually pickup to tow around a couple hundred pound aluminum boat. 
I'd have no fear pulling my 12' SeaNymph thru the mountains. This new 17' may be a different story. Luckily all my fishing is within about a 30 mile radius.
And apparently, I'm not the only crazy Prius driving fisherman up here. I ran into another Prius owner who was towing one of those 10' plastic bass boats. 
There is a yahoo group dedicated to towing with the Prius. Some people are pulling small camping trailers and I've seen one who tows a small Boston whaler (which can't be light). 

Regardless of your tow-vehicle, you have to use common sense when towing.


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## bcbouy (Jan 29, 2012)

load up that boat with gas/gear anchors and a few mods like decks and so on and see how the prius tows it then.  my mods easily doubled the weight of my boat


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## earl60446 (Jan 29, 2012)

I towed my 14ft lund, trailer, 15hp mariner and all gear with my 2001 chevy prizm (same as corolla) and never had a problem. Rig only weighed maybe 6-700 lbs total, I would guess. My prizm was a stick shift which I thought worked out great for towing, although a bit more complicated at the launch ramp with a stick shift. I dont see any issues with front wheel drive either, actually good to have on a ramp.


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## LonLB (Jan 29, 2012)

A guy up here in Michigan tows a john boat with a Chevy Aveo.

That is a damn small car.


And does so by choice because he has two other bigger boats/trucks. The Aveo gets better mileage, which means more fishing money.


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## Butthead (Jan 30, 2012)

earl60446 said:


> I towed my 14ft lund, trailer, 15hp mariner and all gear with my 2001 chevy prizm (same as corolla) and never had a problem. Rig only weighed maybe 6-700 lbs total, I would guess. My prizm was a stick shift which I thought worked out great for towing, although a bit more complicated at the launch ramp with a stick shift. I dont see any issues with front wheel drive either, actually good to have on a ramp.



I can definitely see the handbrake being your best friend when pulling the boat out with a manual trans!! I know it's nice to use when stopped on a steep hill with a jerky right on your bumper! :roll: (Many MD/DC/VA drivers aren't very cognizant or thoughtful around rush hour.)


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## JMichael (Jan 30, 2012)

I don't think anyone has said that you can't tow them with a sedan, if they did I missed it. You need to take all things into consideration if you're going to do it. I think most here will agree that it puts extra strain on the brakes, transmission/clutch etc and everyone would agree it's cheaper on gas. And a lot of you have advised to use longer distances to slow down/stop and that's good advice. But what about the times when a vehicle suddenly pulls out in front of you or an animal or person unexpectedly crosses the road right in front of you and you don't have time to make that gradual stop? A vehicle with X number of pounds pushing it, handles differently than a vehicle with X number of pounds inside it, when it comes to stopping quickly. So just because the weight may not be excessive, there are other aspects to consider when that weight is located in different places. Don't we all take the weight and it's location into consideration when laying out what goes where in our boats because it affects the way the boat handles/runs. 

In the end, it all comes down to each individual making their own choices, and what ever choice you make, I hope you have a safe and happy boating future.


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## JamesM56alum (Jan 30, 2012)

Good opinion JM, some people will never learn though.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 30, 2012)

Curious...Why would you think using the hand brake towing your boat out of the water would be helpful? 

I have a standard ranger and though i have towed the boat around town have yet to launch it at the ramp...


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 30, 2012)

You can set the parking brake while on the ramp and as you let out the clutch while you are pulling the boat out slowly release the brake it will prevent any rolling backwards


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## Butthead (Jan 30, 2012)

Learn what? That overkill is the only effective way to safely do things?

If you look at it from a size scale, using a full size truck to pull a 700lb aluminum boat and trailer is about equivalent to using a semi to pull a 22' bass boat. 

What is so drastically different from using a sedan to pull a small aluminum boat, than using a full size truck to haul a big heavy camper or a bobcat? In an emergency stop they're both going to be challenging to stop, even with the brakes on the big trailer. Yes, the trailer on the car will handle differently in the stop since it doesn't have brakes, but if you're driving at a reasonable speed it shouldn't be life threatening. I would think that in today's society of instant lawsuit, if the car manufacturers didn't have faith in the safety of their vehicles within their rated towing capacity, they wouldn't put them on there.

Yes, properly setting up the weight in your boat and trailer is important, especially so when pulling it with a car. But if done right and not with excessive weight, there's no reason that a car can't be just as effective as a truck in performing this task.




Sorry, we're just not going to see eye to eye with this one. 



fool4fish1226 said:


> You can set the parking brake while on the ramp and as you let out the clutch while you are pulling the boat out slowly release the brake it will prevent any rolling backwards



Exactly. Also works for getting a stick car up on ramps slowly, espeically if they don't have a good lip on the back to stop the tires.


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## Jdholmes (Jan 30, 2012)

Interesting...I don't know of that will work with mine...the ebrake is a foot pedal...could prove difficult to use all three foot pedals at the same time.


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 30, 2012)

It can, does make it a little more difficult with the foot brake but can help. Find your sweet spot in the clutch (the spot were there is no roll back) release the brake and off you go.


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## bassboy1 (Jan 31, 2012)

JamesM56alum said:


> Keeping the RPM's low keeps the clutch plate from slipping when pulling with a manual trans also if the roads are wet it will keep the tires from breaking loose under a load because if you're not smooth on the shifting the car will jerk just enough when u let off the clutch the tires will break loose and either you wont go any where or you might walk the front end of the car around into the car beside you.



I'm going to have to disagree with you on that, or at least the end result. Every one of those issues mentioned as a rationale is indicative of someone who is a novice with manual gearboxes, and is a minimal effect of towing.

One has to remember that we are talking aluminum block 4 cylinders here, very likely imports. These are not the old iron blocks from the factories of Detroit, that were low end torque monsters. These small aluminum blocks like revs, and are very weak in the torque department, especially at the low end. 

For example, the 1.7l engine in a 2002 Honda Civic has 125 hp. 
A TBI 5.7l GM engine (ie, the infamous 350) has 210 hp. 
A TBI 7.4l GM engine (ie, the big block 454) has 230 hp. 

Even though the Civic has a significantly smaller engine, it still has greater than half of the horsepower out of either of the big monsters. It achieves that at high RPMs, whereas the big engines, capable of towing 10,000 behind an already 6000 pound truck, rely on high torque, at low RPMs. 



> Keeping the RPM's low keeps the clutch plate from slipping when pulling with a manual trans


If you are getting the clutch to slip, and aren't really hot dogging it, the clutch needs to be replaced, or you need a bigger tow vehicle. If within the capacity of the parts (and I don't really give a flip what the piece of paper says can be towed, I'm speaking of the actual parts) themselves, letting the engine rev out a bit is not going to slip the clutch. Though not necessarily intended for that in this application, the clutch can often be the weak link, keeping something else from breaking. If a clutch, in good condition, is slipping under the load of a trailer, you need to lighten the trailer.



> also if the roads are wet it will keep the tires from breaking loose under a load because if you're not smooth on the shifting the car will jerk just enough when u let off the clutch the tires will break loose and either you wont go any where or you might walk the front end of the car around into the car beside you.


This is absolutely an issue regarding an incompetent driver, and has little to do with towing. No one is suggesting winding the engine out and dumping the clutch, but instead not to short shift into the subsequent gears. Obviously, for a number of reasons, you shouldn't use more revs than needed to get moving in first, but once fully into gear, it is much better for the car to wind it out a ways, and shift into the subsequent gears with higher revs, than to short shift and lug it through all the gears. 

As a mechanic, I'm sure you're aware of what the 'tow/haul' feature on an automatic transmission does. For those that aren't aware, the most significant thing it does is raise the shift points to a higher RPM. This is done to keep from lugging the engine (especially since most trucks these days are also going to the higher revving aluminum blocks), and also to reduce some of the slippage in the clutch packs of the auto trans. In a manual transmission, there is no electronic controller to keep the driver from placing unnecessary wear on the drivetrain, so instead, the driver has to be mindful of such.


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## JasonLester (Jan 31, 2012)

:LOL2: ....I have a Aveo5....I've thought of towing my Kayak...and my new 14 boat...Sea Nymph 14. Both are very light..I know my boat is very light...but then I look and hitch and wiring costs and have yet to spend the money on that. But then again I am only 15 minutes from the lake. So the Yukon XL gets the job. For now


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