# Yamaha 25 vs Tohatsu 25 vs Suzuki 25



## blackshear

I'm considering purchasing a new 25 HP, tiller, long shaft. I currently have a 648 (1648) War Eagle that has an older (2002) Yamaha F25. I love the motor as far as performance goes but the weight is a real issue for me since if fish and hunt is shallow water lakes. The Suzuki overcomes the weight issue for me with power tilt and trim as does the Tohatsu. The Yamaha weight is really been reduced but I'm not sure if it is enough to be for manual tilt, which I have to do often on my lake. Really wish I could get the Yamaha with power trim. Any comments as to personal experience with any of these 3 motors would be appreciated.


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## Brian121804

I'm pretty sure the Yamaha F25 with a long shaft is available with power tilt / trim.

I have a 2017 F25SWHC (manual trim). The trim lever is the one thing I really
dislike, it's buried under the tiller mount & associated wiring. Other than that I
really like the motor.


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## blackshear

kdgrills said:


> I'm pretty sure the Yamaha F25 with a long shaft is available with power tilt / trim.
> 
> I have a 2017 F25SWHC (manual trim). The trim lever is the one thing I really
> dislike, it's buried under the tiller mount & associated wiring. Other than that I
> really like the motor.



To get a Yamaha tiller with tilt/trim you have to buy the remote model and then buy tiller handle and install kit. it gets too expensive going that route for me. How many tilt positions does yours have and how easy is it to lift once you get to the lever?


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## Brian121804

Oh, I see, yeah that would get expensive.
Don't remember how many positions off the top of my head.
I'll check tonight & take a couple pics as well.


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## bcbouy

i had the tohatsu.the tiller has the built in rpm adjuster.i loved that motor.it also came with the prop included.very smooth and the pt/t was also great.i had 3 dealers who serviced them in my area so it was a no brainer for me.it was also the only 25 hp short shaft that had power tilt/trim at the time.i upgraded from a yamaha 15.hated that motor with a passion.


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## blackshear

kdgrills said:


> Oh, I see, yeah that would get expensive.
> Don't remember how many positions off the top of my head.
> I'll check tonight & take a couple pics as well.



Pictures would be great! The Yamaha website doesn't show any details. I would like to see where the lever is located for tilt. Thanks


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## blackshear

bcbouy said:


> i had the tohatsu.the tiller has the built in rpm adjuster.i loved that motor.it also came with the prop included.very smooth and the pt/t was also great.i had 3 dealers who serviced them in my area so it was a no brainer for me.it was also the only 25 hp short shaft that had power tilt/trim at the time.i upgraded from a yamaha 15.hated that motor with a passion.



What kind of boat did you run the Tohatsu on and how fast would it run? Thanks


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## bcbouy

14.5' g3 guide v.if i remember correct it ran around 20 mph wot.keep in mind it was propped for slow trolling and had over 800 pounds of total weight.


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## fyr4efect

blackshear said:


> I'm considering purchasing a new 25 HP, tiller, long shaft. I currently have a 648 (1648) War Eagle that has an older (2002) Yamaha F25. I love the motor as far as performance goes but the weight is a real issue for me since if fish and hunt is shallow water lakes. The Suzuki overcomes the weight issue for me with power tilt and trim as does the Tohatsu. The Yamaha weight is really been reduced but I'm not sure if it is enough to be for manual tilt, which I have to do often on my lake. Really wish I could get the Yamaha with power trim. Any comments as to personal experience with any of these 3 motors would be appreciated.



The Tohatsu 25hp 15" does come with tilt and trim. Merc and Yamaha 15" do not.

I have a Tohatsu 20hp electric, tilt, tiller 15" and push 1000lb at 25mph 5700 factory 11.5 prop. You would probably get another 5-7 mph out of a 25 depending your hull and weight. Im sure they are all good choices, local service is another thing. Suzuki 25,30hp you can buy onlineoutboards.com.
Yamaha is probably the lightest of the three.


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## Brian121804

blackshear said:


> Pictures would be great! The Yamaha website doesn't show any details. I would like to see where the lever is located for tilt. Thanks



Here ya go. The tilt lock lever is between & just above the clamps & carrying handle,
just about even with the top of my transom. I put a piece of red tape on
it to make it more visible. It's just big enough to grip with your thumb and finger,
not particularly difficult to move, just clumsy to get to. Look closely and you'll see 
the steering friction adjustment lever just above it to the left.

There are four trim adjustment positions.
I'm not able, at the moment, to pull the boat out to verify the number of tilt positions.
I think 3 or 4, I'd swear that used to be on their website or in the manual, but I don't see it now.

Please forgive how fugly my transom is! I'll be redoing it this spring, 
now that I'm happy with the motor height.


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## turbotodd

I had almost the same boat (mine's a 548 and not a 648), 25hp 4 stroke (2000 model), but short shaft. I had the same issue. Hard to tilt it. There's an easy way. Kick it into reverse while it's idling and you can tilt it a little easier. That's not always convenient, though. 

I had a hair brained idea this past summer that if I could sell my '00 model for any appreciable amount of money, I'd put the money toward a new Yamaha 25. So I stuck it on CL for a high price and wouldn't ya know it, guy emails me about 10 minutes later and wants it for the asking price. I figured he was another blow-hard, but no, he actually showed up that evening from about 175 miles away and bought it on the spot. 'Course I sweetened it up a little by giving him some spare parts that I had amassed over the years doing dealer work. CDI, prop shaft, spare carburetor, and a spare prop. But the problem was, the dealer was out of new 25's and it was going to be a week or two before another came in. That was the longest 6 day wait I've ever had. I had to resort to putting the old 3 cylinder 25 back on the transom. It's fast but once you've had a 4 stroke, you feel weird going back to a 2 stroke. About as awkward as going from 2 stroke to 4 stroke.

Anyway, what I can tell you about the new Yamaha is that you'll go about 2 mph faster. It starts better. The throttle is MUCH more linear. The old 4 stroke motor, once you get to about 3/4 throttle, if you go from 3/4 to full, it doesn't really pick up much. With the EFI on the newer one, it is a lot more controllable. Full throttle is full throttle. 3/4 is 3/4. There is a difference between 3/4 and full; on my rig about 4 mph give or take. The first thing you'll notice is a little shake at idle. It is not bad but it is noticeable. I have about 10 hours on mine now and a lot of the shake has subsided; so keep that in mind. But really the BIGGEST difference is that tilting it is like tilting an old 2 stroke 25hp twin carb Yamaha. It's really that easy. Even for my old working man's back that hurts mostly all the time, I can tilt it up one handed. The tilt lock takes some getting used to, being that it's in the front of the motor instead of the side. And the starter button is kind of buried on the lower cowling too, not really buried but not quite as easy to get to as your older one. You get used to it quickly. Now the technical. Yamaha's EFI is super nice. The lower unit is mostly the same as the old 2 stroke twin carb, with minor differences in the shape of the exhaust, and a better paint process. The prop shaft is the same part number as your current 25 as well as the old 2 stroke. Water pump parts are the same as the old 2 stroke, but your current 4 stroke is different than the new 4 stroke water pump. The cowling lock is easier to use. The motor is considerably quieter under way as well in comparison to the older 4 stroke and a lot of that is due to the elimination of the counterweight "slug" in the older 4 strokes. The new 25hp "pee hole" doesn't pee quite as hard as the older ones which I find odd since Yamaha's known to have a pretty stout stream of pee water. But I've run about a dozen of them and they're all the same (brand new). Water pressure is normal, they just don't bypass as much water as the older motors did. Also, the entire motor's paint is a little nicer on the newer ones than the old ones were; more glossy. That may not matter to a duck hunter, though. Most of them will spray paint them camo the day they get 'em home.

How does it compare to the Tohatsu? It's (the yamaha) more refined. The Yamaha lower unit doesn't whine. It's silent. The engine is quieter under 1/2+ throttle than the Tohatsu. The idle quality is a little better on the Yamaha, though the Tohatsu runs slightly smoother (though not a lot). The yamaha is about 1 mph faster top speed too, with no appreciable out-of-the-hole performance difference. 

Suzuki? I like the idle quality and that's it. It felt a little sluggish from holeshot, was about 2 mph slower top end, on the same hull, and it was right at 6100 RPM on the tiny tach. The shifter felt weird when shifting. I had a little trouble with it, but it could've been that I ain't used to it. I just wasn't happy with the suzuki 25....and I WANTED it, but glad I didn't buy one now.

I had some vids on my phone from this past summer's use of the new motor, I'll see if I can't put 'em on youtub.e.


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## blackshear

Thanks kdgrills and turbotodd for your detailed responses, they are really a big help to me. I am getting close to making my decision on which motor to go with and right now I am leaning towards the Yamaha. I can buy a new Yamaha for $3400 out the door, a slightly used 2014 Mercury (Tohatsu) with power trim for $3100 or a new Suzuki for $4400 with power trim. Tough decision for sure.


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## Brian121804

That's a good price on the F25. I gave $3650 + tax, I'm in a Yamaha free zone.
If you go that route make sure you do it before their spring sales promo is over.


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## wmk0002

turbotodd said:


> I had some vids on my phone from this past summer's use of the new motor, I'll see if I can't put 'em on youtub.e.



Not the OP, but if you find them please do post. I would love to see them.


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## blackshear

Today I found a dealer that has a Suzuki 25 with manual start and trim assist for $3200 tax included. I am not too crazy about the manual start unless it is possible to add electric start later. I’m not sure what the differences are between the tilt assist and power tilt and trim. The dealer that priced me the Yamaha at $3400 does not have one in stock so I have to wait until he orders three or more before I can get one at that price. Does anybody know anything about the tilt assist on Suzuki and if you can easily add electric start later on?


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## thedude

Can you post a model number?


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## turbotodd

Also, the newer tohatsu is about 25lb heavier than the Yamaha. And since Tohatsu builds Merc, I ASSume the Merc is the same.

The older Merc/Tohatsu was a heavy pig. I liked how smooth it was but that was all that impressed me about it. Slow, little noisy, didn't care for the tiller and shifter, the lower unit shifts into/out of gear a little clunky, etc.

We rented a rig on the river again last year which was powered by a Merc 25. It was one of the newer ones (Tohatsu). It was kinda slow honestly, or more specifically slower than I expected. It's a 3 cylinder engine and "should" have more torque, but I was really disappointed. It ran right against the limiter on the top end so I doubt it was underpropped. My biggest complaint aside from it not having electric start was the fact that the tiller was weird. I didn't really figure out why it felt odd but it did. On the tillers, you can get the standard tiller or the multi-function tiller. The MF tiller is nicer and a little longer but it costs a little more too. I haven't priced them either way, so you're on your own there. One I ran was the standard. While researching your Mercatsu, look at what the MF tiller weighs and how much it adds to the total weight. Also look at the total cost. If you are looking at PT&T, ask whether it is truly PT&T or just PT. I've had a 20hp tohatsu in the past and it was sold as PT&T although it wouldn't trim while under way. After making a call back to the dealer about it, I found out that it did not have trim, tilt only, which for the money spent, it wasn't worth it. Only slightly better than manual tilt and a few more lbs of weight on the transom.

As for manual start EFI, the downside is that you have to really pull the rope quickly in order for it to start. That merc we ran, if I didn't yank yard enough the first time, it would flood it and would take 2 or 3 more pulls to crank it up. With it being a 3 cylinder, the yanking wears on you quickly. Yamaha's a twin cylinder and starts a LOT easier, they incorporated a compression release which makes the pull effort about 1/2 of the mercury. But you still have to make sure to pull with some authority. GF sometimes fishes the back of the boat and one of the things I try to instill into her is that she needs to know how to run the boat just in case I'm overboard or whatever. Mine's got electric start (and backup recoil start), but I tried to teach her to run the rope starter. She just pulls it slowly and by doing that it won't start at first. It always fires on the second pull though. Every time, even on a slow pull of the rope. It's just a different "feel" than a carbureted motor.

PT&T on the yamaha? Probably available but you'll have to get a long shaft remote and add a tiller kit to it...which is going to be a little expensive. Honestly, the thing is so light weight that it isn't needed. It tilts just like a 2 stroke.


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## blackshear

thedude said:


> Can you post a model number?



The model number for the Suzuki is DF25A with manual start and tilt assist. The dealer said I can add electric start easily but I’m not so sure about that being easy. He also said that you tilt the motor to the desired position you like and you can run the motor WOT in that position. I thought tilt assist was just for shallow water drive or slow speeds only.


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## blackshear

Thanks turbotodd for your response. I have ruled the mercury out and my choice is between Suzuki and Yamaha now. I am going to see how much it will cost to get power tilt and trim added to the remote model. I guess it will come with the shifter. Maybe I could sell the shifter and get some money back.


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## thedude

I would go electric start over tilt assist any day of the week (if money is a factor).


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## jasper60103

blackshear said:


> thedude said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you post a model number?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The model number for the Suzuki is DF25A with manual start and tilt assist. The dealer said I can add electric start easily but I’m not so sure about that being easy. He also said that you tilt the motor to the desired position you like and you can run the motor WOT in that position. I thought tilt assist was just for shallow water drive or slow speeds only.
Click to expand...

I've had my df30a only for one season and very pleased with it. 
This is my first new motor and plan to keep it for many years, hopefully. 
I had my old 30hp Johnson for 8 years and got tired of playing mechanic the last couple seasons.
Anyway, 
I say if you plan to keep it for a while. 
Save up and get what you want. 
I had electric start on my old johnson motor. So I couldn't go back. 
Power tilt and trim is new to me, but I appreciate it. 
Just my opinion. 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk


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## turbotodd

some of the newer EFI manual start motors can honestly be easily changed to electric start. HOWEVER...what is the cost of doing it, and does the additional cost make it prohibitive? I do not know. I have not priced the process. I do know that yamaha offers an electric start conversion kit for the F9.9 now, right from Yamaha so you know it's all the right stuff. I want to say that it's about $500 but could be wrong. I'd certainly like to have electric start though. That would be #1 on the list, especially after having several rope start motors, including a mid 80's Evinrude 9.9 that was supposedly real easy to start. It did start good, but it took a LOT more effort than this 25 yamaha I have now, and the 25 I had before it as well.


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## turbotodd

I got a chance to look at the suzuki DF25A.

The tiller handle is short! Also it doesn't have VTS (variable trolling switch)....VTS adjusts RPM up or down in 50RPM increments, without touching the throttle grip. Push the switch + to increase (up to 1050 rpm) and push the switch to the - symbol, it'll go down to 750 RPM I think it is. May be 700. It's a feature that is NICE to have (and I didn't think I'd ever use it). The switch is right in the tiller handle. Easy access. Yamaha's got a 16A charging system, suzuki 14A. Yamaha's lightest model is 10 lbs lighter than the lightest suzuki. Electric start short shaft suzuki is 143 lbs. Yamaha electric start short shaft is 132 (I weighed mine). Yamaha's tiller handle is mounted at an angle to the front of the motor, which makes it easy to access, to control, it just feels more natural. Suzuki is mostly straight and as mentioned looks short.

Why is it that whenever you look up suzuki specifications, you're directed to a lot of worldwide web pages? There's one or two USA pages and the rest are non-USA? Perhaps the USA marketing department doesn't feel like the DF25A will be a big seller? I don't know. I know a LITTLE about suzuki and though I liked a lot of the stuff they put out, I just can't get excited about buying something that may need product support. 

For those who might be intested in speed, usually the manufacturers put a one-size-fits-most prop on the 25's. Yamaha comes with a 3x9 7/8x11 1/4" (11 1/4" pitch) and suzuki comes with a 3x9 1/4x10 (10" pitch). That tells me right there that the suzuki is going to be a couple mph slower than the yamaha; and/or they have to use the 10" to get it out of the hole due to, oh I don't know, lack of low end torque? It don't make any sense since it's a 493cc 3 cylinder and the yamaha's just a little 432cc twin cylinder.


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## blackshear

Would the Suzuki manual start have a charging system? If I added a starter and solenoid would I still need to add an alternator for the charging system? 

As nice of a motor as the Suzuki is I’m still leaning towards getting the Yamaha. If my dealer can get one ordered before the rebate expires.


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## turbotodd

blackshear said:


> Would the Suzuki manual start have a charging system? If I added a starter and solenoid would I still need to add an alternator for the charging system?
> 
> As nice of a motor as the Suzuki is I’m still leaning towards getting the Yamaha. If my dealer can get one ordered before the rebate expires.



Being that the suzuki has EFI, it shoul have some sort of charging system to run the EFI stuff. I'd like to think that it's no different than an electric start motor in that sense, but I didn't research it enough. Is it an actual batteryless EFI? I think it is. Or is a batter required? Worth asking about for sure.


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## bcbouy

i'm curious to know why you ruled out tohatsu? it comes with tilt/trim,multi function tiller with rev control and efi that doesn't require a battery.it also comes with the prop and it needs no electric start conversion.


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## blackshear

Is it an actual batteryless EFI? I think it is. Or is a battery required?

The Suzuki is battery-less


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## blackshear

bcbouy said:


> i'm curious to know why you ruled out tohatsu? it comes with tilt/trim,multi function tiller with rev control and efi that doesn't require a battery.it also comes with the prop and it needs no electric start conversion.



The reason I ruled out the Tohatsu or Mercury in 25 hp is due to the weight.


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## blackshear

I ordered the Yamaha 25 with electric start today so my search is over for a 25 hp. They are all very nice motors but the weight, EFI, and price were the main deciding factors. I will let you guys know how well it performs when it arrives.

My next project is going to be updating my River-Hawk B60 to a 9.8 or 9.9. I will probably start a new thread since this one was so helpful in my decision for the 25. 

Thanks to everyone who shared their input.


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## water bouy

I've been looking at different electric start tiller 20" for a couple of years and decided to find a 4 stroke at least 30 hp. So far Suzuki at 163 lbs (with some kind of tilt trim) looks to be the lightest 30 by a wide margin. Everything else seems to be 180 to 220 lbs. Not entirely given up on the idea of a 2 stroke 3 cyl yamaha but boy those are hard to find around here.


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## fishonsc

I am all for buying new but would it not be cheaper to just put a Bob's machine shop tilt and trim on your current engine? 

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## wmk0002

blackshear said:


> I ordered the Yamaha 25 with electric start today so my search is over for a 25 hp. They are all very nice motors but the weight, EFI, and price were the main deciding factors. I will let you guys know how well it performs when it arrives.
> 
> My next project is going to be updating my River-Hawk B60 to a 9.8 or 9.9. I will probably start a new thread since this one was so helpful in my decision for the 25.
> 
> Thanks to everyone who shared their input.



When you ordered, was their any talk on the available options for the tiller handle? Reading up on the model on Yamaha's website, they make it sound like there is an option to upgrade to some multi function tiller handle over the standard one. However, both have the variable troll speed setting plus everything else so I'm not sure what the difference would even be.


Standard Tiller Handle









Multi-Function Tiller Handle


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## blackshear

fishonsc said:


> I am all for buying new but would it not be cheaper to just put a Bob's machine shop tilt and trim on your current engine?
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk



I did consider that option but I wanted a lighter motor and felt like hanging the old one off the back of the boat by 4-5 inches with the tilt and trim plate would have made my boat draft deeper. I fish and hunt in a shallow water lake.


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## blackshear

When you ordered, was their any talk on the available options for the tiller handle? Reading up on the model on Yamaha's website, they make it sound like there is an option to upgrade to some multi function tiller handle over the standard one. However, both have the variable troll speed setting plus everything else so I'm not sure what the difference would even be.

I was not made aware of any options other than power tilt and trim. To get the trim I would have to order the remote model, a kit for the tiller handle, an install kit, plus the labor. The cost was way too high for me to go that route. Yamaha really needs to offer the trim with the tiller handle installed at the factory. It would have to be much cheaper that way. I figure they will offer that option about a month or so after I receive mine. 

It will take 2-3 weeks to get here. i will post speeds and performance with the old F25 and the new F25 on my 648 War Eagle.


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## turbotodd

You "can" upgrade the tiller to the MF tiller handle. However, is it worth it? It's very slightly longer and has a PT&T switch in it. That's really the only major difference, oh and it's heavier and bulkier than the factory installed tiller. HOWEVER, as mentioned, if you want PT&T, you have to order it as a remote, then install the tiller kit which comes with the MF tiller, key switch, and lanyard all built into the tiller. That makes a $3600 motor into about a $4800 motor (give or take) not counting labor. To me, as light as these things have gotten, PT&T is now mostly a luxury for "most". There's some that need it, and I understand & respect that, and I too hate how Yamaha offers it as remote only & add the tiller. But at the same time, the F30 and bigger are exactly the same way. I'm not even sure that the F30-F40 are offered in 15" length...I want to say they're 20" only. I checked into it a while back and I think it was someone at Yamaha that told me that (not the dealer, the customer service line). My boat is 16" transom so the only option was to build it up, and honestly, the F40 is shy of 100 lbs heavier than the F25 is, thus the extra power would really only be useful for holeshot, top speed wouldn't change but maybe 1 or 2 mph at the most based on my friend's rig (same boat, but 20" and with an F50). Couldn't justify spending $5500 for a heavy pig F40 when the little F25 does everything I ask of it, even if the boat's rated for 40hp.


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## blackshear

Should I add a water fuel separator to the new Yamaha or is the one built in sufficient?


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## Brian121804

blackshear said:


> Should I add a water fuel separator to the new Yamaha or is the one built in sufficient?



I added a Yamaha Mini-10 10 micron filter when I repowered with my F25.
Probably overkill for a portable fuel tank, but for ~$30 gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-Mini-10-10-Micron-Assembly-MAR-MINIF/dp/B004K9JQBQ

Not necessarily recommending the seller, was just the 1st google result. 

I also use Yamaha ringfree & stabilizer every tank. I generally consider such things snake oil,
but for the little that I use...


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## turbotodd

98% of the outboard work I do is fuel system issues. Also Yamaha, when doing a predelivery inspection on a new motor/boat, the checklist has a spot to check that says "equipped with 10 micron fuel filter"...I assume that if one is installed and that box is checked, that Yamaha looks at any particular warranty repair down the road a little differently. Makes sense to me. With the amount of fuel system problems I see daily, yes I suggest a mini-10 filter.


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## blackshear

turbotodd said:


> 98% of the outboard work I do is fuel system issues. Also Yamaha, when doing a predelivery inspection on a new motor/boat, the checklist has a spot to check that says "equipped with 10 micron fuel filter"...I assume that if one is installed and that box is checked, that Yamaha looks at any particular warranty repair down the road a little differently. Makes sense to me. With the amount of fuel system problems I see daily, yes I suggest a mini-10 filter.



I will definitely add the Mini-10 filter. Any recommendations on fuel additives? With my 2-strokes I used Stabil or Startron and Yamaha Ring Free with Non-Ethanol gas. I still plan on using Non-Ethanol gas and Starton but not sure if Ring Free is still the best additive for a EFI system.


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## fishonsc

turbotodd said:


> You "can" upgrade the tiller to the MF tiller handle. However, is it worth it? It's very slightly longer and has a PT&T switch in it. That's really the only major difference, oh and it's heavier and bulkier than the factory installed tiller. HOWEVER, as mentioned, if you want PT&T, you have to order it as a remote, then install the tiller kit which comes with the MF tiller, key switch, and lanyard all built into the tiller. That makes a $3600 motor into about a $4800 motor (give or take) not counting labor. To me, as light as these things have gotten, PT&T is now mostly a luxury for "most". There's some that need it, and I understand & respect that, and I too hate how Yamaha offers it as remote only & add the tiller. But at the same time, the F30 and bigger are exactly the same way. I'm not even sure that the F30-F40 are offered in 15" length...I want to say they're 20" only. I checked into it a while back and I think it was someone at Yamaha that told me that (not the dealer, the customer service line). My boat is 16" transom so the only option was to build it up, and honestly, the F40 is shy of 100 lbs heavier than the F25 is, thus the extra power would really only be useful for holeshot, top speed wouldn't change but maybe 1 or 2 mph at the most based on my friend's rig (same boat, but 20" and with an F50). Couldn't justify spending $5500 for a heavy pig F40 when the little F25 does everything I ask of it, even if the boat's rated for 40hp.


Something not right with his boat then. My buddy has a 1648 seaark with the Yamaha 25hp. I have the same boat with the tohatsu 40hp. I will blow him out of the water. He tops out around 25mph. I can hit 35mph.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk


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## turbotodd

blackshear said:


> turbotodd said:
> 
> 
> 
> 98% of the outboard work I do is fuel system issues. Also Yamaha, when doing a predelivery inspection on a new motor/boat, the checklist has a spot to check that says "equipped with 10 micron fuel filter"...I assume that if one is installed and that box is checked, that Yamaha looks at any particular warranty repair down the road a little differently. Makes sense to me. With the amount of fuel system problems I see daily, yes I suggest a mini-10 filter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will definitely add the Mini-10 filter. Any recommendations on fuel additives? With my 2-strokes I used Stabil or Startron and Yamaha Ring Free with Non-Ethanol gas. I still plan on using Non-Ethanol gas and Starton but not sure if Ring Free is still the best additive for a EFI system.
Click to expand...


Ring free is specifically designed FOR this purpose, and works perfect with EFI.


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## blackshear

My Yamaha F25 EFI arrived at the dealer yesterday and I will have it on my boat later today. I checked the MPH on my 2001 F25 running WOT on the 648 War Eagle at 25.5 MPH by myself with a moderate load. I plan to duplicate the same amount of equipment and will let you know how much faster if any that the new motor runs. That is assuming they tell me it is OK to run WOT for a couple minutes to get an accurate reading. I will know more tomorrow or Sunday as long as I don't get rained out.


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## Brian121804

Good for you! Glad to hear you can get out 
& run it, things will be frozen around here 
for awhile yet. I'll be interested to see how 
it performs for you.There is a recommended 
break in procedure, not sure I believe it's 
really necessary, but I followed it. Good 
excuse to putt around & drink beer for a
few hours anyway.

Copied from the manual:

"Breaking in engine
Your new engine requires a period of break-
in to allow mating surfaces of moving parts to
wear in evenly. Correct break-in will help en-
sure proper performance and longer engine
life. NOTICE: Failure to follow the break-in
procedure could result in reduced engine
life or even severe engine damage.

Procedure for 4-stroke models
Your new engine requires a period of 10
hours break-in to allow mating surfaces of
moving parts to wear in evenly.
TIP:
Run the engine in the water, under load (in
gear with a propeller installed) as follows.


For 10 hours for breaking in engine avoid ex-
tended idling, rough water and crowded ar-
eas.
1. For the first hour of operation:
Run the engine at varying speeds up to
2000 r/min or approximately half throttle.
2. For the second hour of operation:
Increase engine speed as much as nec-
essary to put the boat on plane (but
avoid full-throttle operation), then back
off on the throttle while keeping the boat
at a planing speed.
3. Remaining 8 hours:
Run the engine at any speed. However,
avoid operating at full throttle for more
than 5 minutes at a time.
4. After the first 10 hours:
Operate the engine normally."


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## blackshear

After running my new Yamaha F25 EFI at a painful 2000 to 3000 rpms for 2 hours I was finally able to run WOT for a few minutes on my War Eagle 648. My best performance came with the trim pin located in the top hole running the factory supplied 11-1/4 pitch prop. War Eagle recommends a 10-1/2 pitch for best performance on this particular boat and paired with the Yamaha F25. My top speed was 27.3 with no measurable wind. My older 2001 F25 top speed was 25.5 running a 10-1/2 pitch prop on this boat. I plan to get a Tiny Tach and see how many RPMs this prop is turning before ordering a 10-1/2 pitch. Also I may try and move the motor up slightly on the transom to see if that helps with performance. 

I am very impressed with the new F25 and the fuel economy was awesome. For as much riding around as I did this weekend I may have used 1 gallon of gas. The location of the start button and the tilt latch were not an issue at all for me, I actually prefer the tilt latch in the new location. I used the tip that "turbotodd" suggested by putting the motor in reverse to help assist with tilting the motor and that really helped. The reduced weight of the new motor is much easier to tilt than the older F25. It is very quiet and and smooth once the rpms get up a little bit. My only complaint is that there is quite a bit of vibration at idle or lower RPMs. I knew this motor had the vibration issue but I was hoping it wouldn’t be that noticeable. It seemed that the more I ran it the worse the vibration got. Some have said the vibration on their motor improved the more hours they accumulated. With only 3 hours on my motor hopefully I will see a reduction in the vibration as I continue to put use it. All things considered this is a great motor and I look forward to many years of enjoyment from my new F25. 

Attached are a couple of pictures of some crappie I managed to catch while on the lake this weekend. I thought some of the tinboat fishermen might enjoy the pictures.


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## LDUBS

Nice bucket of crappie and congrats on the new outboard. Yamaha is a pretty popular brand around here. At least they must be because I sure see a lot of them. I remember when I was breaking my outboard in last year. I was pretty religious about following the break-in instructions. Fisherman on the lake must have wondered what was going on seeing my boat going back and forth at different speeds for hours. 

Enjoy.


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## turbotodd

27.5mph assuming about 10% slip should put it about 5700 RPM give or take a little. That's fine. Max is 6000. Going "back" to a 10 1/2" pitch will put you over 6000 RPM, BUT it might work better with a heavier loaded boat, say, if you take other people with you or whatever. I run a 11" turbo Hotshot. 6200 with a light load, runs right at 5950-6000 with the girlfriend but it's also a foot shorter boat (548LDV War Eagle).


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## blackshear

turbotodd said:


> 27.5mph assuming about 10% slip should put it about 5700 RPM give or take a little. That's fine. Max is 6000. Going "back" to a 10 1/2" pitch will put you over 6000 RPM, BUT it might work better with a heavier loaded boat, say, if you take other people with you or whatever. I run a 11" turbo Hotshot. 6200 with a light load, runs right at 5950-6000 with the girlfriend but it's also a foot shorter boat (548LDV War Eagle).



Glad you responded, that is excellent info for me to work with. I installed a Tiny Tach this weekend and I am turning around 5750 to 5800 RPMs with the 11-1/4 prop. I was running the boat by myself, at 215 pounds, with fishing gear (two small Yetis with ice, two batteries in rear, trolling motor, tackle etc). I will be fishing with two people and gear on occasion and rarely 3 people. My boat is a 2001 648LDV War Eagle w/20" transom.

My cavitation plate is currently about 2-3" below bottom of the boat but I don't have any room to raise the motor on my transom due to the motor clamps already being within an inch or so from the top of the transom. I could add and aluminum spacer/bracket to my transom but that would be a lot of work for something that may not help. I was thinking about getting a 10-1/2 pitch aluminum prop or a 10 pitch stainless to help me get to the 6000 rpm range. Not sure which would be the best choice. Any advice would be appreciated.


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## turbotodd

The factory 11 1/4" is a GOOD prop for what it is. HOWEVER, they blades are a little thin and they'll bend, umm, fairly easily. Same thing for the 10 1/2". If you're going to be loaded, yeah a 10 1/2" is a better bet, OR a 10" SS. If you can raise the motor on the transom, that'll help some-and you may be able to get away with a 11 1/4" with some load in the boat. I run mine with a 1 1/4" spacer between the transom and the motor-and the motor is clamped RIGHT at the top of the "cap"-and hasn't moved (yet). My old F25 was the same way and it was considerably heavier so I'm not scared of it. The clamps actually run off of the very top of the cap a little bit. 

Solas=thick cast blades, lots of drag, lose some RPM compared to a good quality SS prop of the same pitch. In my case, .25-.50mph slower on the top end.
Powertech=didn't try much of their different lines, OTHER than the SRA, which is way too much rake. No faster but it did induce some porpoising before I moved the pin.
Have not tried Michigan.
Turbo Hotshot works just as good as the Powertech, but comes out of the hole a LOT better. It actually holeshots as good as the factory 10 1/2" pitch but has nearly the same top end as the 11 1/4". Good rake, works pretty good for all-around use. I used to have to change props if the GF went fishing with me from the 11 1/4" to the 10 1/2" but don't have to do that now with the turbo.

After I bought the Turbo I found out that Turbo is owned by Yamaha. I also found out some other things too that I can't really discuss publicly but I can tell you that to my knowledge, no other mass production propeller manufacturer scrutinizes the quality of their product as much as they do. If it's not exactly what it's supposed to be, it gets melted down. It takes roughly 30 days to make a prop once you consider all of the steps that they take and I believe it....since when I ordered mine, it backordered and took a while to receive it. Also if you order a turbo prop from a Yamaha dealer, it comes free shipping.

I tried a 4 blade Powertech too and LOVED how smooth it ran and how well it came out of the hole and held plane at a lower RPM, but it was a 10" and I should have gotten a 9". Struggled to reach 5500 but still ran 27 mph.

I'm off today...sun just came out....I'm outta here, with a stop at the bait shop!


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## blackshear

Thanks for your input turbotodd. I looked into ordering a Turbo Hotshot but the delivery time was several weeks out. The Power Tech TLR is $100 less and I can have it in a few days. In the meantime I am going to play with raising my motor up on the transom and see if that helps get the RPMs up. I also need a little bit of rise in the bow of the boat. The trim pin is in the last hole and the bow still runs a little to flat for me.


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## republicgamer35

Hi I have a heavy custom Princecraft Fisherman 14'' long with 3/4 plywood for the floor and front platform, Terrova trolling motor, lots of fishing equipment's. The boat is sitting deep in the water, it is heavy but it is a wonderful setup. it look like a mini-Pro tiller. I want to keep it and I need to figure is my engine is good enough or what can get to improve my setup. I need your input please .

I actually have a Yamaha 4 stroke 20hp 2016
I have a hard time to manual start it. 2 to 5 pull in order to manual start it. The max speed is 22 Miles alone and 17 when we are two in the boat.

I consider to traide for a 25 hp short shaft 15'' electric start and trim.

Which one is more reliable, and provide more performance for max speed?

also having a RPM controller would be a must for trolling.

In my case what motor I should consider? Yamaha 25hp, Tohatsu, suzuki or Evinrure E-tech?

I like to buy it new and do a trade with my motor and payed the difference.
Would it make a good difference between 20hp to 25hp?

I would like to reach 31 miles per hours because I am doing long distance travel.

If you guys can help me out I would greatly appreciated!!!!

JS


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## Brian121804

Yamaha F25 short shaft is not available with PTT,
I believe Suzuki 25/30 is.

What's the boat rated for? I'd probably be looking 
at the 30 Suzuki. Same power head as the 25.


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## ktoelke54

If your getting 22 max out of your 20hp, a 25 will probably get you in the mid 20s with a light lode, low 20s with that extra person. It would be a notable improvement over the 20 Hp but nowhere near your 31 mph goal. 


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


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