# Another Jet Ski John Boat (New pics and video 01-18-2012)



## Ride_Klein (Oct 12, 2011)

New guy here with another jet ski powered aluminum boat build. It is something I've always wanted to build, and ironically I stumbled on this site after I'd purchased a 1964 Texas Maid and 1996 Seadoo XP 800. That was the easy part. 

I've accumulated these parts over the last couple months. So the pictures will be plentiful here in the beginning. I've done a fair amount of work on fiberglass boats, but this is my first major project with an aluminum boat and a jet ski. I'm sure I'll have plenty of questions for you as I move along. 

Here she is. 1964 Texas Maid



15 feet long and in pretty good condition. Trailer doesn't fit, but the trailer the boat sat on before I bought her was falling apart under her. I chose this boat because I wanted a semi-v, this hull seems good, and the price was right. 

To power this project I picked up a 1996 Seadoo XP 800. I wanted the 787 motor that seadoo built and this ski had it. Wasn't running when I bought it, but could turn it over by hand. Bought it and brought it home.



Outside is rough, but I don't need much of it. Thought I was getting an engine that needed just a little work sure the carbs would need some work, maybe a top end rebuild. Seadoo sat in my garage over a week, and when I went out to pull the engine it was locked up. Hmmmmm...



Mag Piston looked ok, but saw signs that water had gotten into it. 



PTO Piston had pretty good carbon build up on it.



Head has some pitting on the Mag Cylinder side. Not sure if you can see it from this picture, but looked like a ring might have come apart earlier in its life. Piston didn't show any signs of wear, and both rings were intact. Any thoughts on running the head as is? Any remedies if I shouldn't run it as is?



Engine out of the ski. From there it got a little worse. Pulled the jugs off and there was a good deal of water in the case, and a fair amount of rust on the crankshaft (forgot to snap a picture). I think when I turned the ski over by hand while checking it out before I bought it that I dislodged a larger piece of rust and that caused it to lock up. This is the first time I've worked on a jetski motor and the first time I've been this deep into any engine, anybody with more experience have a guess? 





You can see the rust wasn't terrible, but the bearings were gritty. I decided to order a new crankshaft since I was in this deep. Also got a new set of rings, pistons, and gaskets. Live and learn I guess.

Now that I was waiting for parts to show up, it was time to start tearing out the interior of the boat and see what I had. I forgot to take a before picture, but trust me it was rough.



Here's a view from the bow. Nice semi-v. I hope this will work to not only soften the ride on our area lakes, but also to help keep clean water heading towards the pump by not trapping air. We'll see.



Here's a view from the stern. Nice and flat.



Two layers of plywood. Looks like at some point in time they added a layer of 3/8" regular plywood over the 1/2 marine plywood. Anybody care to venture a guess which one was harder to pull out? Somebody had cut the closed bow out of this boat before I bought it. Made it easier for me to chop her up further for my project. 



The floor out. Foam looking towards the bow of the boat.



Floor foam looking towards the stern. Also a view of the transom. The transom was the consistency of tracing paper. I appreciate the great powers of rot making it so easy for me to pull out of there.



Got it all pulled out and a rough clean done. You can also see the stringers



Finally, it was time for the dump run. 250lbs of junk in a 10lb car. 

That's where I sit today. All the parts for the engine got here last week so it is time to start putting everything back together. Bring on the criticism and/or advice. Can't thank everybody on this site enough for all the information that is shared here. Lots of great projects to learn from. Thanks to everybody for sharing them.


----------



## bulldog (Oct 12, 2011)

Pretty awesome project. Good luck and keep the pics coming.


----------



## mmf (Oct 13, 2011)

Good luck with your build! I have been real interested in building one myself sometime and maybe sometime I might get to it. I will be watching your project, also, Ranchero has a lot of GOOD info on these builds!


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Oct 13, 2011)

=D> I will be lurking on this one. Good luck


----------



## Ranchero50 (Oct 13, 2011)

Welcome to the insanity. After my experiences I would probably return the crank and get a rebuilt longblock from SBT. Lot less involved and it'll probably be a better engine vs. just a crank swap. 

https://seadoosource.com/ for carb kits.


So what is the intended purpose for the boat? What water are you going to run it in? What are your ideas for layout?

Jamie


----------



## Ride_Klein (Oct 13, 2011)

Bulldog, mmf, and foof4fish, Thanks for checking it out. 

Ranchero- I looked at the rebuilt long blocks, but in the end I was interested in getting into this engine and working on it. I've got a 5 yr old that needs to get his hands gritty as well. This seemed like a great opportunity for us to learn about it together. Probably penny wise and pound foolish, but it is an excuse to get out in the garage. We'll see if I'm singing the same tune when I'm out there trouble shooting things instead of on the water. 

Primary use for the boat will be larger lakes and rivers around Texas. Some fishing, but mostly duck hunting. The sloughs and coves we hunt up here are usually pretty clean water on top, but the bottom reeks havoc on lower units and propellers. Mud motor wasn't really an option because of cost, depth of water we're usually running, and distance we travel while scouting. Mostly this was an excuse to build a project I've wanted to build for a while. Most of the time this boat will be used for 2 men and a dog. Couple times a year we'll have 3 guys and 2 dogs. 

The layout is up in the air. I'll have a larger back deck very much like yours and PSG's to accommodate the engine and pump. Debating between a stick steer from the back like many guys have done, a center console with a steering wheel similar to yours and PSG's, or a front drive. Each has its pros/cons.

Stick steer in the back is obviously the easiest and cheapest. It will also give me the most floor space and a very open design. Weight distribution could be difficult and it gives me the worst visibility forward. The visibility is one of the biggest things holding me back. 

Center Console is the direction I'm leaning. Small Console with battery under it, and gas tank running forward. This will get a little more weight forward of the center line, improve the visibility considerable because I'll be able to drive while sitting or standing. Downsides are it eats up a lot of floor space. 

Front Drive would really even the boat out. Plenty of weight forward and provide infinite ways of balancing the boat out. Great visibility, but I just don't like how they look as much. 

Hope to start putting the engine back together tonight and tomorrow night. Should have more updates then.


----------



## PSG-1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey, MMF, I noticed your signature says "never used galvanized fittings on an aluminum boat" and "never use pressure treated lumber in an aluminum boat"

The advice about galvanized goes without saying (or at least it ought to), everyone should know about electrolysis and what happens when you use the wrong fasteners or fittings in water, especially salt water. If the fastener doesn't rust out completely, the resulting electrolysis will most assuredly damage the part it was bolted into.

But what about the pressure treated lumber? I've never heard of that one before. Is it because of the copper they use to PT the lumber, causing electrolysis, or is there another reason? Just curious. I'm usually not putting wood back in boats, but if the need ever arises, it's good to know about the right and wrong materials to use, and why. Thanks in advance.

And on a final note, let me add one to the list:

"NEVER, AND I DO MEAN NEVER, USE EXPANDING FOAM IN ALUMINUM BOATS."

Reason: unless it's a specialized closed-cell foam designed for marine use, expanding foam, like the type you buy in cans, will absorb moisture, and will cause crevice corrosion of aluminum.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Oct 14, 2011)

Got a little more work on the engine done tonight. Mostly cleaned things up and should be ready to assemble this weekend.



Crankcase halves apart. Some minor scoring but everything else looked to be pretty good.



New Crankshaft from WSM. This comes complete with bearings, rods, and seals.



New Counterbalance.



Measurement on the cylinders. All of them were within a tenth. I believe a 1mm over piston will work. Anybody think differently?



New WSM Pistons. These are 1mm over pistons and as I mentioned above, I believe they will work. If somebody disagrees please correct me.



Both cylinders had surface markings on them. The mag cylinder is worse than the PTO. Are the markings shown in this picture acceptable? If they aren't any suggestions on removing them without taking too much more of the cylinder wall with it?



Does the alignment of the crank and counterbalance look correct here?

All in all a good night in the garage. A friend of mine also donated some "scrap" aluminum road signs to the project. Looks like I'll have enough to do the floor area. Will be nice not to worry about wood down there.


----------



## Billvsthefish (Oct 14, 2011)

I'm looking forward to seeing your build. I'm not much of a two stroke mechanic, but will offer any help i can along the way. Some of the build can be quite frustrating, but its worth it. I love cruising upriver past the driftboats...


----------



## PSG-1 (Oct 14, 2011)

It definitely looks like you're on the right track, going ahead and overhauling the engine.

I have a service manual for the Sea Doo Speedster jetboat, which covers both the 717 and the 787 engines. 

Let me know if you need any specs or other info, this manual pretty much covers it all.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Oct 14, 2011)

PSG, Thanks for the offer. I haven't been able to track down a consistent answer on what the piston to cylinder tolerance. I've got a manual that I downloaded from the net, but it doesn't jibe with what a couple other builders say. Does your manual happen to give a piston to cylinder tolerance or range?

Thanks in advance.

RK


----------



## Ranchero50 (Oct 15, 2011)

Are you on PWCtoday.com? 

They have the links to the factory manuals at the top of the Seadoo subforum. That's where I got mine and it made life manageable. Personally I think you are nuts for going into a Rotax engine that far but I have my fingers and toes crossed hoping it comes out right for you. The questions you are asking here should be asked on PWCtoday, the guys are very helpfull and embraced my project.

The only thing I've read over and over again about the 787's is make sure the exhaust is sealed right since the carbs are under it tend to suck water when it rains from above...

Jamie


----------



## Ride_Klein (Oct 15, 2011)

Thanks Ranchero. I posted it on greenhulk, but I'll head over to pwctoday as well. Appreciate the suggestion.


----------



## PSG-1 (Oct 15, 2011)

Ride_Klein said:


> PSG, Thanks for the offer. I haven't been able to track down a consistent answer on what the piston to cylinder tolerance. I've got a manual that I downloaded from the net, but it doesn't jibe with what a couple other builders say. Does your manual happen to give a piston to cylinder tolerance or range?
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> 
> RK




According to this manual, it says piston/cylinder clearance is:

NEW PARTS - (min) 0.09mm (.0037")..... ( max) 0.11mm (.0044") 

WEAR LIMIT- 0.2mm (.008")





Also, it says that replacement cylinder sleeves are available if necessary. Oversize pistons of 0.25mm (.010") are available for both the 717 and 787 engines.
Hope that helps!


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 9, 2011)

Time seems to slip away. It has been way too long since I updated this thread. Progress continues. I got the engine back together with lots of help from the guys over at pwctoday.com. Put it back in the ski to test it, primed the fuel system and she fired up about a second after the first press of the button.

Then it was time to pull everything out of the ski.





I'm going to use the fiberglass tunnel and seadoo pump shoe for my build. So it was time to cut the bottom out of the ski. As you can see, this was an OSHA approved job site. No kids toys were harmed in the process. 





This is the insert. I included the motor mounts in this insert because I wanted to see if I could utilize them, but I didn't like how it fit, or the exposed hull foam left in the insert. I'm certain that foam would quickly be waterlogged and cause the engine mounts to fail.





Next it was time to cut the boat. Measure once cut twice, that's what they always say right? As I mentioned above. I chose not to use the entire insert. So all I needed was a cut big enough to be slightly larger than the intake tunnel from the ski. 







I had to cut one of the cross braces for the boat. You'll see later that the motor mounting system I devised was able to reinforce the area of this cut. I also chose to cut the hull so I could keep the stock "rideplate" from the ski. I did this for to protect offer protection to the pump and give myself a good mounting point for a trim tab if that is needed in the future. Once the cut was made, the wire wheel was used to get the aluminum good and clean, and then the entire surface was prepped so the 5200 could get a good bite. I also wire wheeled and sanded the fiberglass pump tunnel so the 5200 could get good adhesion on it as well. 

I forgot to take a picture of the insert cut down to just the pump tunnel, but you can get a good idea of what it looks like in the next picture after I test fit the tunnel into the boat. Fit pretty well with only a few adjustments needed.



I fell down on the job over the next couple hours and didn't snap many pics. I was hoping to get it finished up enough to put in the water last weekend, but that didn't happen. This project wouldn't be near as much fun without my very best shop helper. He demanded we take a break and see if the small cold front that blew through North Texas had brought any web footed friends with it. What can I say, the kid is a slave driver. Being a dad is too much fun for words.



Back to work. Got everything sealed up (I think). I used stainless fasteners to pull the bottom of the hull up to the insert around the pump tunnel intake. Against the transom I cut 1.5" aluminum angle to size so there was a tight seal and a mechanical connection all the way around. 5200 was used between all the joints and each stainless bolt was loctited and torqued down tight. Did I mention I got bad about taking pictures right around this time?

Next was the motor mounts. I had to reinstall them because the insert I originally cut from the jetski left much to be desired when it came to support. I need better pictures of them, but I'll do my best to describe what was built. I used some 1x6 aluminum tube stacked 3 high for the two rear mounts, and a single piece that spans the center line and is attached to each stringer for the front motor mount.





I had to nut each bolt from underneath which was a bit of a pain, but hopefully this will alleviate the concerns I have about tapping the thin soft aluminum of the aluminum box. I cut an access window for the front motor mount so I could get a wrench in to install/tighten the nuts. 

That's where I am now. I know I need more pictures. If you have something you want me to snap a picture of let me know. Hoping to get it in the water on the trailer this weekend to test for leaks and make sure the engine performs well while it is in the water instead of just on a hose. If you see anything I messed up, let me know. 

That's about where we stand now.


----------



## fender66 (Nov 9, 2011)

Great project....don't know how I've missed this one so far.


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 9, 2011)

Looking good so far! Getting the jet unit tunnel and the engine mounts is the biggest part of the battle, with the jet unit tunnel definitely being the biggest PITA of all. Once you get that done, it's just a matter of wiring, hoses, and control cables, and you're ready to roll!!

I always enjoy checking out these jet jon threads, the photos kinda take me back to the days when I first started my project. Lots of long days and nights for sure. A lot of trial and error, too, actually fabricating parts, then realizing they wouldn't work the way they were done, and either having to modify, or scrap them altogether.

I definitely didn't have the resources such as helpful board like this to assist me in getting it done!

That's why I'm more than happy to share any insight that I can on doing such a build, hopefully to save others the guesswork and aggravations I went through the first time around. (The second time with the HO engine was pretty easy, my only quandary was with the wiring)


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 9, 2011)

Fender - Thanks for the compliments. 

PSG - Really appreciate all your posts.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 9, 2011)

Tonight I removed the keel 16" in front of the tunnel intake, drilled and sealed rivets, snapped a few more pictures, and then sat and made vroom vroom noises for a few minutes as I contemplated layout options.

Here's a shot of the access window I cut in the aluminum box that I used for the front engine mount. 



Here's a shot of the 1.5" aluminum angle brackets around the transom. 



Bottom view of the intake tunnel looking from the transom forward. You can also see where I removed the keel in an effort to clean up the water coming into the pump. (Thanks PSG)



View looking at the pump housing pushed through the transom. Shows the rideplate a little better. Time will tell if I made the right decision keeping that rideplate.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 10, 2011)

This is what I'm thinking about for layout.



The sketch is on a 1' grid. This layout provides good deck space and good floor space. Perhaps more importantly it allows me to use the existing throttle, steering, and choke cable. Visibility and weight distribution are my concerns with this layout.

Basically there has to be a deck that is 44" long on the back of the boat to cover the engine. There will be storage compartments under that deck on either side of the engine. That deck is 20" off the floor of the boat and 2" below the gunnel. 

Infront of the rear deck I'll have three seats set on a platform raised 12" off the floor of the boat. I'm hoping this will help the visibility some. Under the middle seat I'll have a deep cycle battery. I'll have a stick steer mounted on the starboard side of the boat with a thumb style throttle mounted on that stick. This should allow me to drive the boat comfortably while seated or standing. 

On the port side of the boat there will be a 4' storage box that will handle guns and/or tackle. This leaves enough room to slide a cooler against the side of the boat in that space as well. 

Up front the deck is 40". I'll store the fuel tank under that deck and have access for an anchor as well as general storage. I'm a little concerned about mounting the fuel tank sideways. I wonder if it won't cause problems with fuel starvation when I'm 1/4 tank or below and in a hard turn. Any thoughts or suggestions?


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 10, 2011)

Taking out the center strake will definitely help with getting rid of some cavitation.

I know what you're saying about the motor mounting bolts being through-bolted with a nut on the bottom side. You might be able to see from the pictures that when I did the mount rails for the original aluma-jet, we used carriage bolts, that went from the underside of the rail, and the nuts were secured to the top side. Only one problem. Once I welded those rails in place, I had no way of being able to replace a carriage bolt if it corroded, or sheared.....thank God that never happened.

So, on the HO engine, I simply drilled and tapped into the mount rails for the mount bolts, actually I added pieces of 1/2" thick aluminum on the inside of the square tube (doing a plug weld at either end of the thick piece to secure it in place.) I had some concerns about them holding, or possibly stripping out, so, I used red locktite, and I was very careful not to over-torque the bolts when I installed the mounts (I have a REALLY bad habit of shearing bolts, getting haywire with over-torquing) Anyhow, so far so good, all 8 of the bolts (2 at each mount) are holding securely.

As far as your cables.....if it turns out that factory cables won't be long enough, don't worry about it too much. For your steering cable, you can use a Teleflex cc633 series cable, it has the 10-32 threaded ends, much like the factory. However, I believe in doing things with overkill, so I opted for the cc694 series (later changed to cc640 designation) which has 5/16x24 threaded ends. Of course, if you go with the larger cable, you will have to drill and tap the ball joint fittings for 5/16x24 threads....not too difficult if the ball ends are made of bronze, but if they are stainless, you have to be very slow and cautious about it, or you WILL break a tap.

Throttle cable isn't too hard to make, either. Some conduit for motorcycle control cable, and some 1/16 stainless cable will do it. Then you just need a few fittings, and a way of securing each end of the cable so that the conduit remains stationary, so the cable is the only thing moving back and forth. And of course, you need barrel nut fittings for the ends. You can buy them already made. 

Let me know if you run into any problems with your cables, I can save you a lot of the headache that I went through the first time around.



And as far as the gas tank being in the front, that shouldn't be an issue, as long as the pickup tube reaches the bottom of the tank, and you don't run it too low on fuel. If it's possible, get a tank with baffles, or if you are building your own tank, install a baffle (something I should have done)

Heck, with my boat, I'm actually making gas run uphill from one tank to the other!! Now, that's a trick. Since the HO engine uses a fuel pump that goes down into the fuel tank, the pump is on the port side tank, which is mounted further forward than the starboard tank. 

So, how do I get the fuel from the starboard tank, to the port tank? With an equalizer hose. At the bottom front of each tank, I have a welded 1/4" NPT female aluminum fitting, with a barb elbow screwed in place, and a 1/4" hose that runs from the starboard tank to the port tank.

Initially, I was having problems with the port tank running empty while the starboard tank was staying full. I fixed that by using a set of check valves on the fuel vent lines. On the starboard tank, the check valve is oriented for air to flow towards the tank, so it draws in on this side. On the port tank, the check valve is oriented away from the tank. So, what happens is when the fuel expands in the starboard tank, it pushes towards the port tank, filling it as it's drained. Now, the starboard tank will run dry while the port tank stays full. Ideally, I wanted both tanks to always have the same level in them, but as long as the fuel is making its way to the port tank where the fuel pump is located, it works well enough.

Having said that, you do need to install a check valve on your tank, to allow air in, but not out. If you notice on most jet skis, when you open the fuel cap, there is internal pressure. This internal pressure is what helps keep the fuel flowing to the system. Without it, you're going to be relying on gravity to feed fuel through the system, this can cause lean conditions at high speed, causing engine damage. 

Anyhow, keep 'er going, and keep us posted!


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 10, 2011)

PSG-

What kind of fuel useage did you have with your 2stroke motor? The seadoo manual says my 787 motor uses 9.8 gph at full throttle. Top speed of the ski was 58 mph. In theory the ski should have right at 50 miles range with a full tank if you ran it wide open the entire time. I'm trying to gauge how the increased wet area of this boat will effect my usage. 

I'd like to use the stock 9 gallon tank from the ski because I have it all ready and the pickup that fits this tank has all the routing for the vent, "reserve", and return line from the carbs. I'll expect to carry an extra 5 gallon tank to make sure we have enough range for long days scouting.


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 10, 2011)

I never broke it down and figured out an exact MPG for that 2 stroke Tigershark, but I know with 22 gallons of fuel, I could run about 50-60 miles before having to fill it back up. On average, I was getting about 2-3 trips out here in the inlet, riding around, fishing, etc. The top speed of the jet ski it came out of was a little over 50 MPH, when it went into the boat, I was getting about 38 MPH for the top end.

With the HO engine, I'm getting 4-5 trips out here before having to fill up, so, I've cut my consumption a good bit. And the specs on that HO engine say that its max fuel consumption is about 10 GPH....I'm actually burning about 3-4 gallons per hour, and that's hauling myself, and 1-2 other people on board.


It's hard for me to guess-timate what your MPG will be with your boat. It's going to depend on several factors, such as impeller pitch, total weight of your boat vs. the weight of the jet ski (engine load) amount of hull in contact with the water, amount of additional weight on board, how many RPMS's you are turning for your average cruising speed, straight-line running versus windy, curvy waterways (you will eat a LOT more fuel if you're making a lot of turns) I'm going to err on the side of conservative here, and say you SHOULD be able to get at least 35-40 miles of cruise range from your existing tank. but the only way to know is once you have it running, to use your GPS, and monitor how much fuel you are using. And always remember the 1/3 rule. 1/3 of your fuel to get where you're going, 1/3 to return, and 1/3 for reserve. If you follow this rule, you should never run out of fuel.

As far as your spare tank, you should consider getting an aftermarket fuel selector valve, with 3 positions. One for "on" one for "reserve" and the third one, you can thread in a male quick connect fitting for an OBM fuel tank, such as a merc or an OMC. Then, you can carry your spare fuel in a regular plastic boat tank, hook it to your fuel valve and it's just a simple matter of clicking the valve over to that position. This is how I had it set up on my boat when I had the 2 stroke engine. 

But, as the 4 stroke uses a seperate electric fuel pump that delivers fuel at 45 PSI.....instead of the typical Mikuni diaphragm pump, powered by an impulse hose like the 2 strokes use......you can see why that concept would not work with this engine. The spare tank would have to have its own fuel pump (and those are about 400 dollars) So, if I want to carry extra fuel now, it will have to be in regular cans that I can pour into the onboard fuel tanks to top them off.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 16, 2011)

Ran into a few issues with the carburetors that needed to be sorted out. I hope I have them fixed. The engine would always start easily, but when you gave it throttle it would bog down and die. After working on it tonight it starts easily and throttles up easily I just need to get her on the water to see how it reacts to sustained throttle, then test and tune. 

I got the wear ring on the pump replaced and the pump completely installed on the back end of the boat. I was able to diagnose a short in the trim system and got it working as well. A little note to anybody working on seadoos and the VTS system. REPLACE THE VTS BOOT BEFORE YOU INSTALL THE PUMP. Whewww... I feel better now. My fingers are still cramped from that exercise in futility. The boat is shoved into the garage so it was hard to get a good picture of the back end all buttoned up, but I'll get one soon.

Tonight I also got the exhaust installed and worked on mocking up a stick steering setup to see how I like it instead of using a steering wheel. 



Steering Mockup.




I'm using a simple piece of 1" EMT for mockup. It is mounted to the gunwale with a single stainless screw to provide the pivot. The bottom has a piece of 3/4" EMT slid into the end. This 3/4" EMT "rides" in a groove created by a piece of left over 1X6 aluminum box. Slides pretty easily and gives me full range of steering in about a 1' arc at the top. 

I'm interested to see how the stick steering works for me. I want to be able to drive the boat while seated and standing so the lever has to be fairly long. I still need to cut it down some from the length in the picture. I expect to cut it just a few inches longer than where the throttle is temporarily mounted currently. If I like how it feels, I'll slide the throttle lever onto the steering mechanism to clean up the looks. This should allow me to control the throttle with a single finger and still keep a good grip on the lever for steering. We'll see if this provides the kind of responsive steering I'm looking for. 

All I've got left before the test ride is an final install on the fuel system (I've been using a temporary setup until this point) and add some length to the existing wiring harness to clean things up.


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 17, 2011)

Yeah, that stick steering should work. Just make sure you have your attachment point secure to the hull when it's all done.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 27, 2011)

It was a mostly productive Thanksgiving break. I hope everybody on tinboats had a great one and you were all able to spend it with family, friends, and/or loved ones. 

Put the boat in the water for the first time on Friday. Still a lot of finish out to do on the interior, but mechanically she was ready for a float. Tows well, the trailer needs to be dressed up, but seems to be in good mechanical order. 


Pardon the tire on the curb. It is tight on our street and didn't want to be any more in the way than I all ready was. 


The lake is way down, but thanks to a long trailer tongue and a very light boat I was able to get it launched.



Christened her with a bottle of Texas' finest.



Rolled her on back and then jumped in the boat to see water pouring in. Not just a small leak, but pouring in. The area between the rideplate and the fiberglass jetski hull is not sealed at all. I hadn't accounted for that when sealing everything up. Pulled the boat back up the ramp to assess the situation. I had a tube of 5200 just incase a leak popped up, but with the jet pump installed there was no good way of getting to the leak. Fortunately for me, my wife keeps a healthy supply of baby wipes in the back of all family vehicle. I stuffed about 25 of them between the jet pump housing and the fiberglass hull. This was enough to slow the leak to a manageable trickle. So I fired her up. 

Boat started easily. Idled well for the first time being in the water. I shoved off and idled out of the No Wake zone to test her legs out. WOW. Jumped on plane pretty easily and rode nicely around 20 mph in the small windblown chop on the lake. The mocked up stick steering worked fairly smoothly and she maneuvered well. Time for a little more throttle. 

The boat pulls very hard when it can stay hooked up. Anything under 25 mph is pretty good, over that and cavitation rears its ugly head. Hard to keep the pump hooked up especially with the chop on the lake. I found some clean water, worked the throttle a little bit, and moved up towards the bow as much as I could and it helped the cavitation a lot. Was able to hit 51 on the gps, but it was cavitating very bad. I was still a very happy man. With a huge smile on my face, I motored back to the ramp to pick up my son/shop foreman and we went for a little ride. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqGPue4BqCs

Sorry about the bad video quality. I'm not much of a videographer. We both enjoyed the put around the lake, and then decided it was time to put her back on the trailer before the continuing leak caused any troubles. One think I completely forgot to do was mess with the pump nozzle trim. It was set pretty neutral, and I'm wondering if trimming the bow down would help with my cavitation. 

Need to move some weight forward on the boat and get to finishing out the deck and storage. I should add another 100lbs to the boat in decking, support, etc. I'm hoping that moving the battery and fuel up front and a little more weight in the boat will get the cavitation under control. I also want to do a little body work leading up to the tunnel intake to ensure smooth water flow. 

Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 28, 2011)

Nice work. As for the cavitation in chop, try a top-loader intake grate, that should help. 

And as far as a sealant for the pump, I wouldn't use 5200, unless you plan on using some C-4 or dynamite if you ever have to take it loose. Seriously, I'm not kidding.

They make something called "Anti-Bond 2015" for removal of 5200, but it only works on EXPOSED surfaces. In a seam, you have to separate the parts in order to get the Anti-Bond in there, and you can't get it to separate to do that, because the bond is so powerful. You'll be very lucky if you don't destroy what you are trying to take apart, if it has been put together with 5200. Save that stuff for PERMANENT uses, never use it for anything that you may have to take apart at some point.

A better sealant which is gas and oil resistant, but not permanent like 5200, is Permatex RTV Ultra Black. This is what I used on my pump, and it's what PWC mechanics use when they install pumps on jet skis. If you ever need to remove it, use Permatex gasket and sealant remover in the spray can. Spray it on the RTV, and it will break it down and make it much easier to remove.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 28, 2011)

I definitely hear you on the permanent nature of 5200. Made that mistake a few boats ago on a part that only needed to be sealed instead of permanently bonded. 

The leak isn't around the pump housing, it is between the rideplate and the fiberglass ski hull. That part is allready 5200'd into the hull for better or worse. The little bit more I need to use won't be much in the grand scheme of things. 

Appreciate the suggestion of the toploader grate. This may be the suggestion I use, but I don't have any experience with them. Looks like they would be weed magnets in the real world? Is this the case? We don't run a lot of weedy water, but would hate to increase my chances of clogging things up. I wonder if majkowskid's project was cured with the top loader grate? I welcome any suggestions or experience from anybody that's used one on boat or ski. 

Hoping I can smooth the area in front of the pump with some bondo, and try a few spoon designs with some foam to see if they help load the pump up better. Hopefully a combination of weight forward, smoothed intake, adjusting the pump trim, and possibly a spoon will help my cavitation issue.


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 28, 2011)

Yes, toploader grates can be weed magnets, as they have not one, but two 'blades' that scoop water (and everything else) into the pump. Also, instead of having 4 or even 5 tines like a regular grate, it's only 2 thick tines, which support the 2 blades that scoop the water in. The front blade is angled more steeply, to load the water to the top radius of the impeller duct, while the rear blade is less steep, which feeds the water into the remainder of the pump in the conventional manner.

I had cavitation with my boat, and a toploader grate DID fix the problem. However, I had too many issues with ingesting weeds and fouling my pump, so I had to decide whether I wanted to eliminate cavitation, or eliminate fouling my impeller. In the end, I went back to a conventional grate, which was modified to hinge on the front end, and is attached on the rear with a push-pull cable, for an easy method of clearing weeds. Sea-Doo uses a similar design on their speeedster jetboats, and that's basically what I used as a blueprint for mine. In fact, I even used a few Sea-Doo parts to do it.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Nov 30, 2011)

Got the pump removed tonight so I could seal the area I think was leaking so badly. While pulling it I wonder if I didn't also find a reason for the cavitation. The top of the area where the pump housing seals up against the pump shoe appears to not have sealed. I can't say for sure, but hopefully a more liberal coat of silicone will help if that was a problem. More on the cavitation later. 

Onto the leak.


This picture shows the area where the rideplate (black) meets up with the fiberglass hull. This wasn't sealed before so I added the bead of 5200. There was a lot of debris in there so I blew it out with compressed air then used qtips and carb cleaner to try and remove any residual oil. 

Back to the cavitation.



You can see the small lip at the leading edge of the intake tunnel where the fiberglass tunnel meets the aluminum hull. I'm going to try and smooth this area out between the aluminum hull and the inset area where the intake grate mounts to the tunnel. Toying with using Bondo-glass to smooth the area out 

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/userportal/show_product.do?pid=6102

I've read good things about it, but wondered if anybody on tinboats had first hand experience with it?


----------



## PSG-1 (Nov 30, 2011)

That step between the boat hull and the pump is definitely enough to cause an air pocket, and some cavitation to go along with it.

Bondo-glass is a drastic step above regular Bondo, for sure. Because it has the 'hair' in it, that makes it more rigid, less susceptible to cracking like regular bondo. I think it's definitely worth a try, at least. If you can fill that void, I think you'll eliminate a good bit of your cavitation. 


My girlfriend's brother used Bondo-glass on the bottom of his aluminum boat, where he had some leaks from corrosion, and being pulled up on oyster beds. So far, so good. I've always heard that you can't put fiberglass on the bottom of an aluminum boat, and that's probably true, to some extent, like if you try to do it with a sheet of cloth, that will most certainly de-laminate. But chopped glass is a different story, especially in small areas. 

You definitely want to prep the area as much as possible, sand it with some coarse paper to give it a good surface to bond to, and wipe it down with MEK or acetone right before you do the glass work, to remove any dust, grease, or grime. 




On that note, I just discovered this morning that my 16 foot Triton has some issues with electrolysis, the first 3 feet of the center strake has some deep pitting, despite having zincs on the boat, and a coat of bottom paint. (I guess when you leave a boat in saltwater for 300+ days out of the year, there's really nothing that will stop electrolysis) 

I thought about doing the Bondo-glass to repair it, but someone told me there's a ceramic coating that can be applied, which is even stronger than Bondo-glass, so, I'm going to try that.


Anyhow, keep us posted on the progress with your boat. Project boats like this are always a matter of trial and error, and testing and improving existing designs. It takes a little time to get bugs worked out. Stick with it, though, don't give up!


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 1, 2011)

Small bits of progress each night. Really looking forward to working on the interior where signs of progress come more quickly. 

Worked on smoothing the pump tunnel tonight. Bought a 1 quart container of the bondo-glass. I was fairly impressed by the stuff. Mixes up easily, has about a 10 minute work time, and is ready to be sanded in 30 minutes after mixing. I would compare it to Marine-tex from a workability standpoint. The leftover pieces from each batch were very difficult to break. Far more so than regular bondo, Marine-tex, and even fiberglass resin. Definitely hard, but the fibers seemed to add a bit of flexibility that kept it from cracking or shattering. 

Prepped the area by wire wheeling off the paint from the aluminum then sanded both the aluminum and the fiberglass pump shoe with some 80 grit to give the bondo-glass something to hold onto. Blew the area off with compressed air then wiped with mineral spirits to remove any residual grease, dust, etc.



I did two coats of the bondo-glass. Pitting wasn't as bad as other filler products and it sanded very easily. Sorry about the pictures, but the boat is still on the trailer so I was working and photographing on my back. Faired the area out about 8 inches in front of the tunnel, but focused most of my work on the ridged area where the aluminum and fiberglass tunnel meet. 

Here's a pic looking bow to stern.



A pic looking stern to bow.



Looking at that last picture I need to go and fill in the gap in the keel. Other than that I'm pretty happy with how it turned out. Really smoothed that transition out and hoping it will load the pump a little better.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 3, 2011)

Quick update. Test run 2 was today. Still leaking, but not nearly as bad as it was. I'm going to bed around the inside of the insert with either bondo-glass, marine-tex, or 5200 since the leak ins't readily apparent from the exterior. Definitely slowed it down, but still have some work to do. 

The cavitation was much better, and I'm wondering if some of the cavitation isn't actual air being sucked in from the small leak. I think I'm also going to feather out the area on the ride plate behind the pump tunnel. 

Was raining like crazy here today so no video, or gps speed. Only one pic of how she looks on the water.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 4, 2011)

Glad to hear the issue with cavitation is less of an issue now. I see that the intake grate has 2 heavy tines, but I don't see the forward scoop.....is that a top-loader grate, or are you still running the original? If you haven't tried the top-loader grate yet, you should go ahead and try that, see if it takes out the last bit of cavitation. 

And as far as leaks, here's a way to tell if you have one, without ever putting the boat in the water.
While it's on the trailer, put the plug in, and fill the boat with a couple of inches of water. Tilting the trailer up will allow you to check for a leak at the stern without having to put a lot of water in the boat.

If a leak is suspected somewhere along the bottom, then, you have the trailer level, and put some dunnage up under the frame before you start filling it with water, as filling the entire boat with 2 or 3 inches of water is a lot of weight, you don't want to put undue stress on the tires or springs.

In either case, you'll be able to immediately detect a leak, and fix it.

Also, if you don't already have a bilge pump on board, get one. Boats collect water from other things besides leaks, such as rain, people swimming, getting in and out of the boat, doing spins and tricks, or the wake from other boats. My boat has 3 pumps, an 500 GPH electronic pump on the main deck, another 1100 GPH pump with a float switch in the bilge, as well as the pressure-fed bilge that hooks to my jet pump, in case both electrical pumps fail.

Most jet skis have a pressure fed bilge system. If you run the pressure fed bilge, remember that the hose that runs to the jet pump needs to be routed as high as possible in the boat, with a vacuum breaker/check valve, then routed back down to the strainer/pickup located in the bilge. Otherwise, when the pump isn't running, you will get backflow that will put water back in your boat!

The fitting for the pressure fed bilge is located on the thrust nozzle of the pump. It will be a long piece of tube that points into the center of the pump orifice, pointing AWAY from the boat. There will be a connection for your hose on the side of the thrust nozzle. The outflowing water through the pump across this fitting creates negative pressure, which is used as suction to remove water from the bilge.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 6, 2011)

PSG-

Thanks, I've used the fill the boat with water trick in the past, but I got fooled on this one. The water found a seam and was running a few inches away from where the actual leak was. 

When I mounted the fiberglass pump insert I bedded the area with 5200 and then drilled the holes for my mounting hardware. All of those areas sealed fine. I got a case of the worries and added 4 more stainless fasteners and those areas were leaking back into the boat. I also had a leak along the rideplate/insert connection that I sealed before test run 2. I found this leak by filling the boat with water. It was so much larger than the small leaks around the fasteners that the water running out between the rideplate hid the leaks around the fasteners. I've filled that seam with sealant, and pulled each fastener to seal around each of them individually. Pretty sure that should do it, but I've been wrong a time or two before. 

Made a little bit of progress last night. 

Got the rear deck lid cut and installed last. It is 57" across and 48"long, very firm, and should be a great place to fish/store decoys/lounge. I'll create a single deck lid so I can access the engine compartment (center), fuel tank (port), and storage (starboard). Braced the underside with 1.5" aluminum angle every 20" and then capped with 3/4" exterior plywood. I'll fill each void with epoxy, then seal and paint before installation. After putting the deck lid on last night I am toying with 1/2" plywood for the decks instead of 3/4". Would save me about 60lbs across the boat, but also worried about long term stability of the thinner weight. Any suggestions from those of you that have some life on your decks? 

Shot of the rear deck lid.



Started working on the floor and hit a bit of a snag. I'm going to use scrap aluminum road signs for the floor. Nice and light and no worries about rot. I was planning on supporting the floor with the flotation foam that I pulled out of the floor during demo, but that plan is faltering. I'd tested the foam and aluminum combination on the garage floor, but putting the foam puzzle back together in the boat doesn't leave the foam level enough to offer enough support for the aluminum. 

A picture of the foam puzzle I wasn't able to solve. 



Talk to me about pour in place foam and the dangers of moisture collection against the aluminum hull. This boat will almost never see salt water and will live on a trailer in a covered spot 99% of its life. 

What are your real world experiences with pour in place foam under the floor of an aluminum boat?
As an alternative, what are your experiences using the rigid foam insulation available at big box stores as flotation under the floor?

Open to suggestions, critiques, and advice.


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Dec 6, 2011)

Ride_Klein your boats coming along nicely!

About the foam, When I started “A Little Snookered" I had to remove all the foam due to it being water logged and badly in some areas. I did want to replace it but was worried that the same thing would just happen again. I did a lot of research and decided to go with the two part pour foam (Closed Cell). It is a little messy to work with and at first it’s hard to figure out how much to pour at a time. (Let me tell that stuff really does expand). But with that all said it turned out good and I am glad I have the extra flotation and I think an added plus is that it helps support the decks. 

I hope this helps. Here’s a a pic of the main deck foam


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 6, 2011)

Thanks F4F. I was hoping you would post and appreciate your input. I really like your project. Could you tell me a little bit more about your research on the 2 part foam. I've started looking at it, but haven't found enough information to feel comfortable with it yet. 

My only experience with foam under the floor is on middle 80's inboard ski boats. I have yet to run into one of those boats that doesn't have water logged foam to some degree. The water logged foam makes for a very heavy boat and eventually rots the stringers out on those boats. All of this foam was supposed to be closed cell as well. This is why I'm hesitant to use poured in place foam. 

Did your research suggest a change in the formula for the new 2 part foam? What brand of foam did you end up using? Do you know what weight you mixed it (ie.. 2lb, 4lb, etc..) Did your manufacturer suggest any precautions to keep the foam from becoming water logged, or is the new stuff better. 

Thanks again.


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Dec 6, 2011)

My only experiences with foam is the same as yours. I have always found it to be water logged. This is just my opinion on why this is, The boats that I have been around when this occurs is always boats in need of lots of TLC and have been sitting outside unprotected from the elements for years. No foam can take that type of abuse.

As far as the research it is basicly the same as I stated above. Everything I read said something like 95%-98% closed cell not 100% so I feel protecting the boat keeping it covered and dry is the answer to water logged foam.

The foam I used came from US Composites (on-line) and was 2lb


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 18, 2011)

Haven't messed with the interior much this past week. I did order and install a new impeller and I'm very pleased with it. I went with a Skat-Track Swirl in the 14-22.5. This replaced the OEM Seadoo 15-23 impeller. I chose to replace the impeller for a couple reasons. First, the stock impeller was a little under the spec for clearance with the pump wall. Secondly, I researched fairly heavily and the skat-track swirl was highly regarded for hookup in rough water. It has a curved leading edge that helps eliminate cavitation in aerated water. 

Got it installed this afternoon and headed to the lake with my co-captain to give it a run. Cavitation is much less with this prop. All but gone until you get full throttle in the small chop that was on the lake today. Will run 45 mph all day long. Hooks up great and has a lot more bite than the stock impeller. I'm extremely happy with how worked and hope to have a few chances to work on the interior over the holidays. 

https://youtu.be/soY6GbQIbDo

Video work is far from my specialty, and I can't get my co-captain to do anything but enjoy the ride from the front. The boat is much more consistently fast with this impeller. Bow rise is next to nill. Had a chance to run it in some pretty skinny water this afternoon and as it sits now it will float in 4.5" and get up on plane in 10".


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 18, 2011)

fool4fish1226 said:


> My only experiences with foam is the same as yours. I have always found it to be water logged. This is just my opinion on why this is, The boats that I have been around when this occurs is always boats in need of lots of TLC and have been sitting outside unprotected from the elements for years. No foam can take that type of abuse.
> 
> As far as the research it is basicly the same as I stated above. Everything I read said something like 95%-98% closed cell not 100% so I feel protecting the boat keeping it covered and dry is the answer to water logged foam.
> 
> The foam I used came from US Composites (on-line) and was 2lb



Thanks again F4F. I'm still noodling on what to do with the foam. Hope to get an answer in the next couple weeks.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 19, 2011)

Ride_Klein said:


> Haven't messed with the interior much this past week. I did order and install a new impeller and I'm very pleased with it. I went with a Skat-Track Swirl in the 14-22.5. This replaced the OEM Seadoo 15-23 impeller. I chose to replace the impeller for a couple reasons. First, the stock impeller was a little under the spec for clearance with the pump wall. Secondly, I researched fairly heavily and the skat-track swirl was highly regarded for hookup in rough water. It has a curved leading edge that helps eliminate cavitation in aerated water.
> 
> Got it installed this afternoon and headed to the lake with my co-captain to give it a run. Cavitation is much less with this prop. All but gone until you get full throttle in the small chop that was on the lake today. Will run 45 mph all day long. Hooks up great and has a lot more bite than the stock impeller. I'm extremely happy with how worked and hope to have a few chances to work on the interior over the holidays.
> 
> ...




Another advantage to swirl impellers is that they are less prone to fouling than a straight-edged impeller. because the leading edge is curved, weeds and other debris tend to slide off the radius, then they are chopped between the wear ring and the impeller....where, with a straight-edge impeller, they tend to stay caught on that straight edge, if that makes sense. Also, as you've already noted, swirl impellers are better at staying hooked up in rough water.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 19, 2011)

PSG-

Glad to know that. It makes a lot of sense that they'd be less prone to fouling. Hopefully I'll run this thing in the swamp soon and find out just how hard I can work it.

RK


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 19, 2011)

From my own experience in the swamp, you might not foul a prop, but you are likely to foul your intake grate. If you have a stomp grate, it's not a problem. But without a stomp grate, it can be a real PITA to un-foul a grate.

Also, when operating in areas of silt or debris laden water, keep a close eye on your cooling indicator streams, you have to be careful about the cooling flow being blocked and running the engine hot.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 21, 2011)

More bad blackberry pictures to share tonight. Got some work done on the floor. I have a brand new respect for all of you pop riveters out there after installing close to 100 tonight. A friend of mine donated some discarded aluminum road signs and I'm using them for the floor. It is still a work in progress, but I think it should work well. I built a frame off the existing stringers using 1.5" aluminum angle.



Cut the signs to fit, and then riveted aluminum angle along the topside of the floor along the gunwales.



I put the angle on top to support the floor and provide an anchoring place for the plywood finish panels that will run down the side. When I solve the foam puzzle under the floor I'll rivet it all down to the frame I build underneath it. The space between the rear deck and the floor is where my seating bench will go. This will provide some more storage and cover up the fuel tank on the port side of the boat. 

Snapped a picture of the battery I relocated to the bow. I was having problems with cavitation and thought I needed some more weight in the bow. Not sure it helped with the cavitation because I added the prop at the same time, but it really cut down on the bowrise upon acceleration. That was good enough for me so it is there to stay. I used 4 ga wire to cut down on any loss I might have with a long run. 



Also snapped a picture of the rear deck and rear deck support that I finished last week. The rear deck support is made out of 1.5" aluminum angle. The deck has a single lid in the front, and then a smaller hatch that allows access to the splash well that I covered. I wasn't sure about the single lid, but after living with it I think it is going to work. The flat storage in the old splash well is going to be really nice. 





From here I need to complete the side finish panels, build the front deck, clean up the engine wiring harness, build the seating bench, bilge pumps, lights, and then paint.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 21, 2011)

PSG-

I have a raw water strainer headed my way to help alleviate silt and debris ingestion into the cooling system. I also have the "pisser" tube off of the exhaust manifold plumbed out the starboard side right next to the driver's seat to help keep an eye on how things are flowing.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 21, 2011)

Yes, a water strainer is a very good idea. It's much easier to clean a screen than to try unclogging the cooling passages of an engine.

One other thing I would suggest would be to buy an outboard motor water pressure gauge, and mount that in your console. A pitot tube, similar to a speedometer tube, is connected to the back of the gauge. Get a "T" fitting, and plumb it in AFTER the water strainer in the cooling loop, and connect the pitot tube. Don't put the T fitting before the strainer, because you will continue to get a pressure reading even if the strainer is completely clogged.

Once you have your gauge properly installed, you no longer need to take your eyes off the water to look for indicator streams, etc. You simply glance at the water pressure gauge to know that your engine is getting water. If the strainer clogs, you will instantly see a drop in water pressure.

To me, this makes a lot more sense than a temp gauge, as with a temp gauge, by the time you realize something is wrong, the engine has already run hot. 

With the pressure gauge, you instantly detect a drop in pressure, shut down the engine BEFORE it ever has a chance to run hot, not after, then, clear the obstruction, and you're good to go.

This is the setup I'm running with my jetboat, and it works exactly like I described. Typical water pressure readings are about 6-7 PSI at about 6K RPM, and at WOT, it approaches the 15 PSI mark. Your results may vary. This is one of the best ideas I've implemented on my boat, I should have done it a long time ago.

In fact, I think it's such a good idea, I went ahead and bought one to install on my other boat, so I don't have to look back at my outboard to see if it's peeing, I can glance at a gauge and know if there's a problem. just got it yesterday, I'll be installing it sometime today.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 23, 2011)

Couple pics after spending way too much time scratching my head in the garage. I finally solved the foam puzzle and got 95% of it back under the floors. I'm going to pick up a few more blocks to add some on both sides under the rear deck and the balance of what I have left will go in the bow in front of the battery. Once I got the foam solved I was able to install the floors for good and work on the trim panels and seating. 






View from the Stern



The rear deck is 55" wide and 45" long. I'll add a couple tie downs for decoy bags so we can keep them out of the floor. 

The seating bench hides the fuel tank, and will be hinged to have storage underneath. 

The space in the Trim panels will hold rods or shotguns depending on the season. 

The floor area is almost 6 feet long and will be mostly open except for a cooler that will double as a step onto the front deck. 

Haven't started the front deck, but that's next. It will be 4' long. Should have 2 great fishing areas between the two decks. None of the plywood panels are installed permanently. They all need to be pulled for filler and paint. 

Thanks for letting me share.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 23, 2011)

PSG-

Nice to have a gauge so it's easy to see at a glance. I'll definitely add it too the list.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 23, 2011)

Yes, the pressure gauge is definitely a nice addition. Got mine installed in my Triton the other day, tested it out on the water yesterday. It works as expected. No more looking back at the motor to see if it's peeing.

Some of the places I run, taking your eyes off the 'road' in front of you can be hazardous. Inattention to the task at hand for even a second can result in running aground. So, I feel better about it already.

Your boat is looking good. Kinda the reverse of the approach I took with my build. I did all the structural work first, then did the engine. 

But, that method of approach can cause issues. If you look back at the photos of my build, you can see that before the rear engine cowling was painted, it was flush with the rear deck area. Then when I went to install the engine, I realized it wasn't tall enough, so, I had to raise the cowling by another inch or so......d-oh! #-o LOL 

I'm also convinced that using diamondplate, like I did, is a waste of money. Using smooth aluminum like you are doing is a far better method. Diamondplate looks nice, but as soon as the points lose their edges, or as soon as you paint it, that stuff becomes extremely slick, especially when wet. Then if you try to put a non-skid additive on top of diamondplate, it really looks crappy. So, you're taking the right approach with the smooth aluminum, for sure.

And as far as obtaining more flotation foam, I had an idea. What about the blocks of flotation foam like they use on floating docks? That stuff is designed to be in constant contact with water, not to mention having a tremendous amount of buoyancy to be able to keep a wooden dock afloat. I would think that would be the ultimate solution. Just a thought.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 23, 2011)

I kind of lucked into this smooth aluminum and it was impossible to turn down. All the painted surfaces will get a traction enhancer to help make footing a little better. 

Dock foam was the route I was going to go with, but a friend of mine is pulling some flotation foam from the seats in his old flat bottom boat. If he can get it out in big enough pieces I'm going to "recycle" it for him in my boat. 

PSG- If you get a chance could you snap a picture of the bilge pump you're using for your deck area. I Like the idea of keeping the deck and engine compartment separate, but I'm hitting a wall on the execution and placement of the pump.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 23, 2011)

Ride Klein,

The way I have my bilge system, I have the engine compartment sealed off completely from the main deck, with a bulkhead. At the engine, the bulkhead doesn't come all the way up, though, because of the head pipe on the front of the engine sticking out. The bulkhead is about 10 inches high at this point. But, the cowling fits over this, so, that seals it the rest of the way. With the cowling removed, the water on the main deck would have to exceed 10 inches in depth to flow over that bulkhead and into the engine compartment.

At the rear center of the main deck, I installed a round deck plate style hatch. Then, I used one of the fully automated 500 GPH bilge pumps. I drilled a hole through the rib between the main deck and the engine compartment, and routed the 3/4" hose to the bilge pump through that. This hose runs between the hull of the boat, and the false bottom of the main deck, where it's connected to the bilge pump. Yes, it's a very tight fit, and a trick to route the hose like this, but it works like a charm.

I will get a few pics of it today, so you can see exactly what I'm talking about.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 24, 2011)

OK, here's a few shots of the bilge system I have in my boat:

This one shows the engine cowling in place, along with the cover to the bilge pump. The cover allows water to flow into the sump, but the screen stops leaves and trash from getting in there.



This is the bilge pump:




This one shows the cowling removed, with the internal bulkhead I mentioned.


My original intent was to have the bulkhead go all the way up, but even with the engine set back as far as possible, it was about an inch too long, and so, unless I wanted to re-design a lot of the deck, I had to do it like this.

So, basically, where you see the diamondplate end, that is a rib. This entire rib was sealed with 5200, before the diamondplate was placed on top. The hose runs from the bilge pump between the diamondplate upper deck, and the actual hull of the boat. A hole is drilled through the rib, with the hose routed through it, going back to a thru-hull fitting at the transom.

So, with it set up like this, as I said, the water has to be 10 inches deep before it would ever go across that bulkhead, and that's if the cowling is removed. The cowling overlaps, and has gasketing, so, that seals it the rest of the way. Any water that gets on the deck, has to go into the sump, it cannot pass into the engine compartment, because, as I said, that rib is sealed. Once it hits the sump, the bilge pump takes care of it.

And then in the engine compartment, I have another 1100 GPH bilge pump with a float switch, mounted on the right side of the jet tunnel, as well as a pressure-fed bilge that's hooked to the jet pump, mounted on the left side of the jet tunnel.

Basically, I can dump about 25-30 gallons a minute with the 3 bilge pumps on board. 

Hopefully the next time the so-called 'captain' aboard the 'Eagle One' Parasailing boat swamps my boat, I won't have $3K in engine damage like the last time around.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 30, 2011)

Thanks for the pic PSG. I like the idea of a sump for the cockpit. The picture helps clear it up.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Dec 30, 2011)

Wheeeewwwwwww. 95% of the way there. Rough interior is in, primed, and base paint. This boat will end up camo, but I haven't decided on what pattern to use. Grey it is for now. 


That's an old seat that came with the boat, but couldn't resist mounting it for this weekends lake trip. 

Bow area with anchor storage up front and large item storage closest to the cockpit.


The thin panel between the deck and the gunwales was a PITA. I'm sure this will be changed in the future, but there are ducks to chase this year and January is the time to do it here in North Texas.

Stern deck and bench seat.


Engine hatch is a single piece. Engine in the center, fuel on the port side, and then storage on the starboard side. The bench seat has storage beneath. It hinges forward and houses the battery. I moved the battery back to this area after talking with a couple jet guys. Hoping to keep the "window" of the jet inlet open a little longer by not being so bow heavy. We'll see if this helps cavitation or not. I left the battery extensions up to the bow so I can move things around pretty easily. 

Really appreciate everybody's help, comments, views, and interest. Nice to be able to share and learn.


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Dec 30, 2011)

Looks like you made some pretty good progress. Let us know how it preforms with the added weight.


----------



## PSG-1 (Dec 30, 2011)

Ride_Klein said:


> Thanks for the pic PSG. I like the idea of a sump for the cockpit. The picture helps clear it up.




Yeah, it was harder to explain than the picture shows. :mrgreen: 

Anyhow, your boat is looking good! Keep us posted.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Jan 1, 2012)

It was a great weekend on the water. Had fun with the boat, chased some birds, and broke the boat. All in all a great shakedown run. The engine struggled at first. Acted like it wasn't getting enough fuel. I believe the fuel selector valve is faulty and once we found the sweet spot on it the boat ran well. The added weight of the deck/floor/panels/etc. Didn't appear to affect the top speed much at all. Still getting between 45 and 50 on the gps depending on water conditions. Moving the battery back beneath the rear bench seat worked well. No real cavitation to speak of. The combination of the weight balance and new prop have helped solve that issue. I'm very happy with the new prop and would recommend it to anybody having cavitation problems with their jet john project. 

A quick overhead look before we hit the water.



Rear view of the decks and floor area.



Closeup view of the paint texture.


I used Behr porch paint from Home Depot, and then added the "Floor Finish Additive". This boat will get beat up pretty good during duck seasons and repainting is a fairly regular occurrence. We've had good luck with this stuff in the past on other duck boats. It seems to do better than other big box store paints and on par with more expensive marine based ones. 

Front Storage Compartment


I know storage on a boat always fills up fast, but this one seems to be stuffed to the gills. 

Finally a little video

https://youtu.be/svjyZXZsLgo

Broke the port side motor mount sometime during this session of messing around. Glad it happened close to the boat ramp instead of early one morning with a storm approaching. Should be an easy fix. Still have some final touches to put on the interior, but those will come with time.


----------



## PSG-1 (Jan 1, 2012)

I cannot think of a better way to kick off the new year! Outstanding job. Really looks good.


----------



## wyatts dad (Jan 1, 2012)

Really cool project, from the read it sounds like it went well and was actually a fun project, that is very cool. I just applied the two part foam myself this summer, I know it is late to passs this on, but in my research and consulting with the Jamestown distributors, it turns out the reason for the soggy foam we all find is that it is not installed with the boat owners best interest in mind. JD told me that it must be allowed to breath, it must be allowed to vent and allow the moisture to evaporate, or else you will get soggy foam, granted it will take a while. Fourtunately I found out in time to make those sections removeable and hopefully prevent this. The way it was put to me was that if you get a good drencing, open it up.


----------



## PSG-1 (Jan 2, 2012)

Regarding flotation foam, even if you're not swamped or drenched, water still gets in the foam, through condensation, and other small amounts of water. It's a good idea to occasionally open up all the hatches during some dry weather, put the boat in the sun, and let all the moisture cook out of it.


----------



## Pruitt1222 (Jan 3, 2012)

Thats a very cool build you got going there man. Dont think you will have to worry about seeing another one like it at the ramp.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Jan 4, 2012)

PSG, Wyatt's Dad, and Pruitt1222-

Thanks for the kind words. It has been a fun project and I'm looking forward to getting on the water more often with the boat. A huge thanks to everybody on here for their help and suggestions.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Jan 6, 2012)

Motor mount repair turned into more of an ordeal than I expected. This is why I love boats and boat projects. Nothing ever comes easy, but when you're done it feels so good.


Ended up needing to pull the expansion pipe, water box (muffler), and all the cooling hoses off to get to the darn thing. The aluminum platform I'd built came loose from the hull. I'd used some 3m VHB tape to hold it down during mock-up and forgot to rivet this one in. Not sure how I missed that, but glad it happened on a shake down run. On the other side, that VHB tape is legit. Held up for 3 pretty good test runs and about 300 miles of rough Texas back roads before it finally gave up the ghost. 

When I pulled the expansion pipe off I noticed a small crack in one of the freeze plugs. I used a wire wheel to clean it up down to good clean aluminum and patched it up good. Forgot to snap pictures of it last night. Once again, thank goodness that motor mount let go. Helped me find a little crack that appears to have been there for a while. 

Success on the registration front. The people in the Garland Office of the Texas Parks and Wildlife are perhaps the most helpful government employees I've ever met. Know their craft very well, are professional, thorough, and give you all the information you need before you get in there. Took about 15 minutes to get the title modified from an outboard to an inboard boat.



Also got the Raw Water Strainer in the mail the other day. I needed a 1/2" unit and this Jabsco one had the biggest bowl I could find. I'll get it installed before the next/final shake down run. Thanks to PSG for the recommendation. I was tempted to go without one, but his experience convinced me to order it. The test run this past weekend proved that it will be needed because the water box had a little junk in it from running shallow.


It is a Jabsco Pumpgard Model # 36400-0000


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Jan 6, 2012)

I guess their right when they say every thing happens for a reason.


----------



## PSG-1 (Jan 6, 2012)

Ride_Klein said:


> Motor mount repair turned into more of an ordeal than I expected. This is why I love boats and boat projects. Nothing ever comes easy, but when you're done it feels so good.
> View attachment 2
> 
> Ended up needing to pull the expansion pipe, water box (muffler), and all the cooling hoses off to get to the darn thing. The aluminum platform I'd built came loose from the hull. I'd used some 3m VHB tape to hold it down during mock-up and forgot to rivet this one in. Not sure how I missed that, but glad it happened on a shake down run. On the other side, that VHB tape is legit. Held up for 3 pretty good test runs and about 300 miles of rough Texas back roads before it finally gave up the ghost.
> ...





Those freeze plugs on Sea Doo head pipes are notorious for cracking, or corroding and getting pinholes, as they are intentionally made from a thinner material than the rest of the pipe, in case it freezes, this will be the rupture point, and not the head pipe. I've welded a bunch of these. Normally, I use my ironworker with a 1 inch punch to knock out some slugs from aluminum plate, and then I drill out the freeze plug, and weld the slug in place.



That was a wise decision to get a water strainer. It's much easier to un-clog one of these, than trying to unclog the cooling passages of your engine!

The water strainer you have is the exact same type I am using in my boat. The only difference is that I am using the strainer screen from the model with the 3/4" inlet, as the mesh is a little more coarse than the screen used in the 1/2" model, less prone to clogging at the slightest thing. All parts from the 2 different models are interchangeable, such as the bowls and the screens.

(I use the fine mesh strainer on my 3/4" filter for well water, to keep contaminants out of my pressure washer) 

Be sure to locate the strainer where it's easily accessible and visible, and be sure to check it from time to time. You'll be surprised at how much trash can accumulate in one.

One other thing I would suggest would be a 2" diameter outboard motor water pressure gauge. You put a T fitting on the feed line from your pump to your engine (put it between the filter and the engine, not between the filter and the pump) Run the pitot tube from the T fitting to the gauge. 

Set up in this manner, if your strainer clogs, you see an instant drop in water pressure, and you can shut down before you run hot, and clean your strainer. I put one on my jetboat, and I found it to be such a useful item, I also installed one on my 50 Merc on my Triton johnboat.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Jan 18, 2012)

Was a great weekend out on the lake. The boat will run very shallow, but you have to be committed. A wise man once said, "If you come off the throttle in 1 inch of water, you will have an afternoon's worth of pushing ahead of you". Fortunately we only made this mistake once. 

The lakes I hunt are mostly muddy bottoms with stumps randomly placed beneath them. So long as we either idled through the rough spots or stayed up on the throttle we didn't have any problems with them. It made scouting a lot of water much easier than it normally is. 

Had a chance to shoot a little video on my way back to the ramp. Apologies again for it not being the best video, but you get the idea of how shallow it will run. 

[youtube]K_w9sxEYSVI[/youtube]

I can get on step in about 10" of water, and run in just an inch or two. It is a real blast.

Couple photos from the weekend.



A shot of the boat layout and the garage camo job I did. The camo was done with regular spray paint. Base coat of tan, then use a 1/2" piece of PVC pipe layed up against the hull and mist the Green, Brown, and Grey down the pipe to create a faded edge. Not the fanciest, but works for us.



Shot of the Camo from the Waterline. Still need to do the interior, but that will wait for the spring.



Limits of Teal. Normally we find more big ducks late in the season on big Texas Reservoirs, but this weekend it was all Teal all the Time. Won't hear any complaints from this captain. They taste darn fine. 

Want to again say thanks for the help this site offers. Great group of people with a lot of great boats. 

Special thanks to PSG. Your experiences really helped. The Raw Water strainer was a life saver this weekend. When we got stuck it let us use the jet to help "push" a little, but we would clog the filter in about 5 seconds. Simple fix by just emptying it out and start all over again. Really appreciate you sharing you build so I could borrow that engine saver from you.


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Jan 18, 2012)

Nice to see you enjoying your hard work


----------



## Ride_Klein (Jan 19, 2012)

Thanks F4F. Hope you're having as much fun on the water as I am.


----------



## fender66 (Jan 19, 2012)

Very nice.


----------



## PSG-1 (Jan 19, 2012)

Ride_Klein said:


> Was a great weekend out on the lake. The boat will run very shallow, but you have to be committed. A wise man once said, "If you come off the throttle in 1 inch of water, you will have an afternoon's worth of pushing ahead of you". Fortunately we only made this mistake once.
> 
> The lakes I hunt are mostly muddy bottoms with stumps randomly placed beneath them. So long as we either idled through the rough spots or stayed up on the throttle we didn't have any problems with them. It made scouting a lot of water much easier than it normally is.
> 
> ...



Haha, I got a kick out of that! Definitely a shallow runner. Don't know about you, but when I run across areas like this in my boat, it almost makes my hair stand straight up, it's a rush, for sure.




> I can get on step in about 10" of water, and run in just an inch or two. It is a real blast.
> 
> Couple photos from the weekend.
> 
> ...



That's a good looking paint job. Neat trick with the PVC pipe, too.



View attachment 1

Shot of the Camo from the Waterline. Still need to do the interior, but that will wait for the spring.


Limits of Teal. Normally we find more big ducks late in the season on big Texas Reservoirs, but this weekend it was all Teal all the Time. Won't hear any complaints from this captain. They taste darn fine. 

[/quote]

Glad to see you are enjoying the rewards from all the hard work. There's definitely a certain sense of pride of ownership with something like this.



> Want to again say thanks for the help this site offers. Great group of people with a lot of great boats.
> 
> Special thanks to PSG. Your experiences really helped. The Raw Water strainer was a life saver this weekend. When we got stuck it let us use the jet to help "push" a little, but we would clog the filter in about 5 seconds. Simple fix by just emptying it out and start all over again. Really appreciate you sharing you build so I could borrow that engine saver from you.




Not a problem, glad to help out. I went through the whole trial and error period with my boat, learning what worked and what didn't, and what to do to improve certain things to make it as user-friendly as possible.

"Engine saver" is a pretty good description of the water strainer. As most of these PWC engine blocks and cylinder heads are made of aluminum castings, you definitely don't want to overheat them, as it can lead to warpage and engine damage. And as I said, once the cooling passages of the engine get clogged with debris, it can be very difficult to clear them, especially if you're on the water. You just about need garden hose pressure to blow it out. The strainer will prevent this issue.

Have you installed your water pressure gauge yet? Once you combine that along with the strainer, you will have a fail-safe system.


----------



## PSG-1 (Jan 19, 2012)

PSG-1 said:


> Ride_Klein said:
> 
> 
> > Was a great weekend out on the lake. The boat will run very shallow, but you have to be committed. A wise man once said, "If you come off the throttle in 1 inch of water, you will have an afternoon's worth of pushing ahead of you". Fortunately we only made this mistake once.
> ...




Not a problem, glad to help out. I went through the whole trial and error period with my boat, learning what worked and what didn't, and what to do to improve certain things to make it as user-friendly as possible.

"Engine saver" is a pretty good description of the water strainer. As most of these PWC engine blocks and cylinder heads are made of aluminum castings, you definitely don't want to overheat them, as it can lead to warpage and engine damage. And as I said, once the cooling passages of the engine get clogged with debris, it can be very difficult to clear them, especially if you're on the water. You just about need garden hose pressure to blow it out. The strainer will prevent this issue.

Have you installed your water pressure gauge yet? Once you combine that along with the strainer, you will have a fail-safe system.


----------



## Ride_Klein (Mar 6, 2012)

PSG-

Not sure how I missed your response. The boat has been in storage for the last couple months as I catch up on honey-do's, etc. Haven't ordered the water pressure gauge but that is next on the list.


----------



## PSG-1 (Mar 6, 2012)

I hear ya. My boats haven't been used as much this winter as they have in past winters, despite this being a very mild winter. Should be a good year for fishing, though. [-o< At least that's what I'm hoping.

The water pressure gauge is such a good idea, I put one on my 16' Triton with the 50 Merc. Sure beats looking back for the indicator stream while you're trying to keep your eyes out in front.

Not sure how I ended up posting twice in my previous response, I just noticed that when I saw you had a new post here.

I did a little upgrade to my boat, installed a set of prow lights, then switched out the factory halogen bulbs for some high intensity LED's. I can't wait to try them out when I go gigging, to see if they can be used to supplement the amount of available light. I use a set of 3 12 volt 55 watt deck lights for gigging, but every little bit helps. I carry a spare 12 volt battery to run these lights, so I don't kill the one in my boat. 

And since the LED's in the prow lights draw a fraction of an amp, they should be able to run for a couple of hours with minimal drain to my boat's battery. Hoping to go out tonight, if the wind will die down. Definitely can't wait to see how they work out.


----------

