# De-carbonizing?



## Blake (Sep 22, 2015)

What do you guys like to use? Seafoam, quickleen, etc...


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## Texas Prowler (Sep 22, 2015)

Seafoam Deepcreep. Best I've ever used. It has a lubricant in it so you don't need to worry about washing away the oil from the bearings and piston rings. Last motor it made a carbon covered piston look shiny new. Engine ran way better all around. I've always used it on my daily vehicles as well.


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## turbotodd (Sep 23, 2015)

Ringfree.

I've been in the business for a long time. Ringfree is the ONLY product that I have found that does what it's supposed to do.

Yamaha also has a specific decarbonizing formula, but it's real expensive and works really REALLY good. If you have a motor that's really carboned up....like a lot of the smaller Yamaha motors (that are supposed to run at 100:1 and people continually run them at 50:1, idling most of the time), this stuff is a good shock treatment. For 99% of us, ringfree added to the fuel tank will do what needs to be done.

Why do I trust it over seafoam?........

several years ago, when I was at a John Deere dealer, I was working on a customer's old SRX95 Rider. 12.5hp Kawasaki. Customer never used the throttle lever. It idled all the time. In fact, he was on his second engine because of overheating from idling. Anyway, he bought it to me because it wouldn't start. Got it on the bench, pulled the spark plug and the cap was bridged with black soot. Great. Pulled the head and it was one big mess of black carbon. Just prior, the Yamaha outboard rep came in and told us about ringfree, said it would de-bond the carbon from the engine without attacking any of the metal surfaces. I was like yeah, right...ain't no way. So, I put the head back on and added a full bottle of ringfree to the fuel, parked it outside and started it. Let it run about an hour or so. Got tired of listening to it run and shut it off, let it cool, and brought it back into the shop. Pulled the head again and there was a ring of clean metal starting around the intake valve and running all the way around the piston, head, and block. The back of the intake valve was spotless. So our rep was right..it does work. Put the head back on and parked it outside running until it ran out of gas. Pulled the head back off once more and it was fixed....could see all of the metal surfaces again. Both valves, piston, block, head, everything.

Couple years later another guy brings in a 1600cc Yamaha twin motorcycle. Said it runs like crap, like goes to one cylinder under a load. I questioned how, but decided to run it down the road to verify. And he was right. Oddly enough, it would cut the one cylinder at RPM over 2000 at full throttle. Callled Yamaha and they said it was carbon buildup on the back of the intake valves, causing the valves to hang open just a little. Guy said run some ring free through it and it should solve it. I was like no way....motor's gonna have to come apart to clean it and replace the valve springs. Well, a bottle of ring free was $12 at the time, so I decided to try it before pulling the motor out. Just sitting there idling, you could hear it start to sound differently. After running about a half tank of treated fuel through it, I took it down the road and sure enough...the miss was GONE! 

Same exact thing happened with another customer's 1700 Yamaha a couple years later. Told her to run some ring free through it. She called me about a month later and said that was some amazing stuff....and apparently it is since there are at least 3 examples of it working.

It can be had in the smaller 2.5oz bottles now, for like $3. Used to the only way to get it was in a 10oz bottle and it was like $20 at one time, but they reduced the size so it can be purchased cheaper.

The de-carb stuff that comes in quart containers is about $70, and it requires professional care to use it. And you don't want to use it on the water, best in a test tank and with PLENTY of ventilation. Only used it once and it's good stuff but expensive. But so is a powerhead if it's carbon'd up so bad that it won't run properly. Sometimes the rings of a 2 stroke will get so much junk on them that they won't "fit" to the cylinder wall properly, causing overheating...and sometimes melting of the pistons. That's why ring free was developed in the first place.


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## DaleH (Sep 23, 2015)

Texas Prowler said:


> Seafoam Deepcreep. Best I've ever used.


Same here! I know Pappy like the OMC Engine Tuner product, but I've had such great results with the Seafoam products that I'm staying with it. Besides using it on OB motors, I have literally _"resurrected from death"_ a lawnmower, chain saw, weed whacker and a pressure washer. Each was alleged to be dead and I got them all for FREE .. and all were fixed using Seafoam. I even used it in my Ford Explorer when she was running rough and it cleaned it out really well!

In those 'otherwise not running' motors mentioned above (stale gas left for months/years??) I drained all fuel and added the straight Seafoam and pulled the starter through, with the plug wires ground out. I let them sit for a day or two. The pressure washer I had to do twice. All were then drained and filled with fresh fuel, then started, tuned up, and all was well!

Note, if your carbs are running OK and you only intend to decarb the cylinders, you could save some time/trouble and use the Seafoam aerosol version, called "Deep Creep", and spray good long blasts from carb to carb, using 1/4 can, then do the 25-minute wait. Repeat, repeat if needed ... leaves you some on hand if/when needed to boot!

I don't like nor care for Yummieha's Ring Free product and have no faith in the "a little every fill up" philosophy. And here's an illustration of why. Take a baking plate with a big ol' pile of encrusted lasagna on it. Don't soak it ... just spray on a little washing detergent then rinse it. Did it come clean? Nope. Try it again - but don't sock it. Did it come clean? Nope ... and it NEVER will! *Those "dose w/ every fill-up" products FAIL to remove encrusted crap. *

That's why I prefer the shock treatment method every 50-hours and believe me, after starting and running and offshore boating forum for years where everyone was running 1 or 2 big V6 OBs on the back, I 've witnessed multiple times where people has issues with daily dosing of Ring Free that were finally cured by the shock treatment method of another product, even if not Seafoam.

FWIW here is the *"Shock Treatment"* method recommended by Bob Dunkleberger, a noted marine surveyor from NJ and an internet OB guru of some reknown:

*Dunk's Decarb Procedure using SEafoam*

_"This works for Carbed, EFI, Ficht, HPDI, Optimax and even 4 strokes...First you need a separate small fuel tank. One of those 3 gal red Tempos works great or an empty gal milk jug will also work, but might be a bit messier..

I use Seafoam over the OEM stuff like OMC Engine Tuner or Merc Power Tune because in the last few years they changed the formula and you have to let them sit up 12 hours. Who's got time for that?? Seafoam you can buy from NAPA, CarQuest or other auto stores. Seafoam works in 15 mins.

You'll need 3/4 gal of gasoline and one 16oz can of seafoam for each engine. Don't forget to add 3oz of oil if you are premixing in a carbed engine. Use about 3 ft piece of fuel hose off the little tank. You connect this tank to your engine by pulling off the main tank fuel hose off the intake side of your water separating fuel filter and plug the hose off the small tank on to that fitting. Or you can separate the fuel line on the tank side primer ball, so you can still use your primer. If you have an engine that has fuel plug then you need a fuel plug on the little tanks hose.

Start the engine, let it warm up and start pulling the mix into the engine. You may have to increase the idle to keep it running once she get loaded with the Seafoam. Run the engine 15 mins in the dock or just cruising around under 2500. Then shut it down and let it sit for 15 mins. Restart the engine, the smoke you see is the carbon burning off. Do the whole thing again and let her sit again for 15 mins. If she smokes after the second time do it again, but I've never seen one still smoke after three doses. The gallon mix should be enough to do this 3 times. You don't need any wide open throttle, you don't need to change the plugs. If it's cleaning the combustion chambers it's also cleaning the plugs, but every 50-60hrs is good time to change plugs in most engines.

I cleaned a antique evinrude one time that had a 1/4" of solid carbon on the exhaust chamber walls by running a 1/2 gal of the mix through it. Seafoam has been around since the 30's and it's what they used when they were burning straight 4 stroke 40SAE oils in outboards.

You guys with the 4 strokes think you are immune from this? Those engines work 10 times as hard as any auto engine ever will and they will carbon up. I bought a Bronco two years ago that had 95,000 miles on it. When I used seafoam on it I had the neighbors hanging out of their front doors looking for where the fire was after I started it the first time there so much smoke.

Too many are under the assumption that it's totally the 2 stroke oil that causes the carbon, Wrong... it's also the additives they put in the fuels today. The carbon inhibitors in 2 stroke oil are there for this reason also. Remember when gasoline used to smell like gasoline, today it smells more like bad cologne.

For those guys that like to do the carbon treatment by spraying it down the carbs Seafoam also comes in spray can called Deep Creep. It's the same stuff under pressure. Says right on the can Oxygen Sensor Safe, for you Yam guys.

After that if your engine maunf recommends a daily additive treatment then do that in the mean time, but all 2-stroke outboards need a decarb every 50-60hrs. If I owned a 4-stroke I would do it the same. Once you are set up with the tank and hose the Seafoam is only 5-6 bucks [now $8-9] can. It's too easy not to do it."_


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## Texas Prowler (Sep 23, 2015)

Yep... Dunk's method is spot on. I was really weary until I tried it. Here's how I use Seafoam Deep Creep. First go for a ride if possible to note how the engine performs prior to this treatment. Second with engine running, rpms @ 2- 3 thousand and exhaust facing down wind spray this cleaner into the carbs. Note the engine will begin to bog down a little. This is ok as that is when you know the cleaner is efficiently working. I run through half a bottle then stop spraying. Keep the rpms up till the fog clears. Next back down to idle. Spray in the carbs till the engine cuts out. Leave the engine off for five mins. Fire it back up and rev till the fog clears. Now go for a ride again.... Cheers!


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 2, 2015)

View attachment 1


Here are a couple after pics of a 4hp merc 2 stroke piston after using seafoam deepcreep.


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## Jim (Nov 2, 2015)

Great thread guys!


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 2, 2015)

Yep awesome thread. I have a little 1.5 cruise n carry outboard that when i bought it had a bad ping at high rpm. I pulled the spark plug and the piston was caked with carbon. I used this method and that piston came out clean as new. The motor ran smooth without a ping to be heard afterwards.


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## BigTerp (Nov 3, 2015)

I've always been curious about this. My 1994 Johnson 50/35 is coming up on about 40 hours after a complete rebuild over 2 years ago. Do you guys use this as regular maintenance every so many hours? Even if you're not having any engine issues? I see Dunk recommends every 50-60 hours.


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 3, 2015)

I use this when i feel it's time. To me time is irrelevant as not everyone spends the same amount of time idling, cruising and @ wot. Could be 20hrs or 50. No biggie.


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## Pappy (Nov 3, 2015)

Time intervals do not really change or depend on how much idle time vs. WOT time you have on an engine. There are so many variables with fuel and oil quality, engine running temps, etc. that it is best not to even venture into that conversation. 
Decades ago a "Tune-up" included removal of carbon on the tops of pistons and inside the cylinder head(s). Decades ago the engines ran on different fuels and lubricants and did not enjoy the benefits of modern engineering. 
Today, during an annual tune-up on a two stroke we run OMC engine tuner through all the engines we see. If done annually there is a good chance the rings will stay free and carbon build up will not challenge the longevity of the powerhead. 
Remember, after every removal procedure run the engine on double oil as the carbon will continue to come out for quite a while.


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## Johnny (Nov 3, 2015)

Pap - so after a *OMC Engine Tuner* procedure,
you recommend a 6 gallon tank of 25:1 vs 50:1 ?

The last time I had the spark plugs out of my Force 50,
I noticed the piston tops were in need of attention.


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## Pappy (Nov 3, 2015)

Sure do. The process does not end when the carbon remover can is empty. 
All kinds of stuff is still coming off the heads and piston tops. Unfortunately some of it gets caught between the piston and sleeve. Most of the time it will go out the ports but small particles also imbed themselves in the piston skirts and increase the rate of cylinder wear for a long time. Extra oil will help keep this in suspension and flush it. If you were able to look at a piston skirt under a microscope (I have several times) you would be amazed what is stuck in there. Accelerated break-in procedures and carbon removal procedures top the lists for the damage.


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## Johnny (Nov 3, 2015)

AH SO !!

for a non-mechanically gifted person, this makes total sense !!


*Thanks !!*


at the mechanic places I frequent, there are always failed parts
on the counter to show what can happen to parts we never get to see.
such as pistons and valves.


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## Moedaddy (Nov 8, 2015)

DaleH said:


> Texas Prowler said:
> 
> 
> > Seafoam Deepcreep. Best I've ever used.
> ...




Thanks for the info!!!!! This is good stuffff!!!!


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## DaleH (Nov 8, 2015)

Pappy said:


> *The process does not end when the carbon remover can is empty.* All kinds of stuff is still coming off the heads and piston tops. Unfortunately some of it gets caught between the piston and sleeve. Most of the time it will go out the ports but small particles also imbed themselves in the piston skirts and increase the rate of cylinder wear for a long time. Extra oil will help keep this in suspension and flush it. If you were able to look at a piston skirt under a microscope (I have several times) you would be amazed what is stuck in there. *Accelerated break-in procedures and carbon removal procedures top the lists for the damage.*


Wow ... that is AWESOME info there Pappy - thanks!


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## BigTerp (Dec 4, 2015)

I'm going to do this to my '94 Johnson 50/35 over the weekend. Planning on using Dunk's method with 16oz. of Seafoam in 3/4 gallons of gas. I don't have an extra/separate fuel tank. So can I do the mixture in a small gas can and just remove the fuel plug fitting on the tank side of my fuel hose and stick it in the tank? Will it suck the mixture up through the hose without the fuel plug fitting on?


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## Pappy (Dec 4, 2015)

No. 
You can remove the fitting off the tank end of the hose and stick the hose in the mixture though. 
I don't understand why you want to wait around to run 3/4 gallon of gas through your engine though.
Would be a Hell of a lot quicker to buy a can of Engine Tuner from a dealer and run it through then let it sit while you do something else. 
To each his own I guess.


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## BigTerp (Dec 4, 2015)

Pappy said:


> No.
> *You can remove the fitting off the tank end of the hose and stick the hose in the mixture though. *
> I don't understand why you want to wait around to run 3/4 gallon of gas through your engine though.
> Would be a Hell of a lot quicker to buy a can of Engine Tuner from a dealer and run it through then let it sit while you do something else.
> To each his own I guess.



I'm confused? You say "No", but then say the bolded above. I plan to disconnect my fuel line from my main tank, remove the fuel fitting off the tank end of the hose and stick that end of the hose into the mixture. Will it be able to pull the mixture through the hose and into my engine that way?

I'm just doing the "Dunk's Method" of warming the engine up and then running the mixture through, under 2500 rpms, for 15 minutes. Let it sit 15 minutes, then repeat. Don't think it will use the entire 3/4 gallons. I'm sure Engine Tuner will do just as well, but I already have some Seafoam on hand. I can't run my jet out of the water, and being by myself the easiest way for me is to run the mixture through while on the water just cruising around.

And per your recommendation, afterwards I'll run 6 gallons through my main tank at 25:1. I normally run it at 40:1 because it seems to run great at that ratio. No need to go more than 25:1 after the decarb, right?


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## kofkorn (Dec 4, 2015)

BigTerp said:


> I plan to disconnect my fuel line from my main tank, remove the fuel fitting off the tank end of the hose and stick that end of the hose into the mixture. Will it be able to pull the mixture through the hose and into my engine that way?




Yes, that will work just fine. Just make sure while your pumping or running the motor that the end of the hose doesn't go above the top of the fuel. You don't want to start sucking air.

Good luck!


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## BigTerp (Dec 4, 2015)

Cool, thanks.


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## Pappy (Dec 4, 2015)

Wasn't clear what you were going to do so I clarified it. We are on the same page.


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## BigTerp (Dec 5, 2015)

Pappy said:


> Wasn't clear what you were going to do so I clarified it. We are on the same page.



No worries. Appreciate the help!! I forgot I had an extra fuel hose though, albeit an old one. No primer bulb though. How tough are they to use without the bulb, especially the way I'm trying to use it without the fuel tank end fitting?


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## Pappy (Dec 6, 2015)

Start the engine with the standard fuel supply hose and tank. Once started switch to the other hose and fuel supply. You can either leave the engine running or shut it down to switch. Engine may run long enough to pull fuel. Probably the best way is to pull the tank end off the hose with the primer bulb and use it.


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## BigTerp (Dec 8, 2015)

Did this on Sunday with no issues. Used Dunk's method of 3/4 gallons of gas mixed with 16 oz. of Seafoam and 3 oz. oil. Warmed up the engine for a while and then removed the fuel tank side fitting on my fuel line and stuck it in the mixture. Cruised around for 15 minutes at about 2000 rpms. Shut it down for 15 minutes and repeated. A lot of smoke on startup after the 15 minute rest and a little more smoke than usual afterwards, but nothing crazy. Did seem to have a little more "pep" afterwards though. Might have just been in my head, who knows. Either way I feel better after doing it.


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## Texas Prowler (Dec 8, 2015)

Right on man!

Sent from the dust in front of you!


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 6, 2017)

Figured id show a better pic of the piston since I've decided to take the motor apart for the winter to replace the piston rings and reed valves. This is after a can of the seafoam deepcreep.






Sent from my LG-LS993 using Tapatalk


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## Texas Prowler (Nov 7, 2017)

Even the ring lands look clean.





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## renn90 (Nov 13, 2017)

Seafoam did a nice job on my Merc 7.5.
Ran nice to begin with, and idled a bit better after Seafoaming.

Followed directions from Seafoam.
Noticed a lot of the carbon on the tops of the pistons was still there.
Poured Seafoam into the cylinders and let sit over night (laying down, pistons up, and mid-stroke so that Seafoam did not leak down).
After approx. 12 hours, the Seafoam was dark colored from dissolving carbon.
Lightly Seafoamed as usual again, and this time approximately 60% of the carbon was removed from the tops of the pistons.


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