# Rookie's first project- 1648 jon



## canis521 (Sep 15, 2008)

I recently bought this 1648 Bass Tracker that I would like to convert to a duck hunting rig.





This is the first boat I have owned and obviously the first project like this for me so I have lots of rookie questions.

I started by removing the rotted wood in the decking.







The foam in the middle looks good, but I assume I should replace the foam between the livewells and in the rear compartment. Any source for replacement foam? 

What are the thoughts on material for replacing the floor? I like the idea of maintenance free (?) aluminum, but cost will be a factor. If I went with aluminum I am assuming one piece per area is probably better than piecing a floor together. 

After reading dicussions on here it sounds like treated plywood is not a good option. Marine plywood is expensive but definitely less than aluminum. 

I will probably keep the carpet that is attched to any aluminum- it seems to be in good shape. I was thinking Hydroturf for the flooring areas- any comments on Hydroturf vs. carpet? 

This site was recommended to me by someone on another forum; there seems to be a wealth of onfo here. Thanks in advance for any comments and suggestions. I am certain I will have many more questions.


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## BLK fisher (Sep 15, 2008)

Good luck with the mod. The best part is you can make it how you like it.


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## phased (Sep 15, 2008)

Welcome aboard canis521. Nice boat.


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## SlimeTime (Sep 15, 2008)

:WELCOME: A duck hunter with a K-9 screen-name?? :mrgreen: Nice boat! Why use a boat with a console for a duck-boat? I'm not a duck hunter, but most I've seen are more of an open layout?

I'm not sure if the expanding foam insulation (in a can) would work or not? Anyone know if it repels water? Decking would be your call, aluminum as you mentioned is alot more expensive, and not everyone can work with it. If you use wood, just paint or seal it well. You can get indoor/outdoor carpet about anywhere, but you might be limited to something that'll match your existing carpet.

ST


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 15, 2008)

welcome aboard the foam in a can is not closed cell it will hold water you need a closed cell type foam ,i would go with marine grade plywood for the floor


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## bassboy1 (Sep 15, 2008)

dedawg1149 said:


> welcome aboard the foam in a can is not closed cell it will hold water you need a closed cell type foam ,i would go with marine grade plywood for the floor


Wrong. It is closed cell. Basically the same stuff as the two part foam that was originally poured in your boat, but not cost effective if comparing it to the gallons that you mix. 

I wouldn't waste the money for marine grade, unless you are building wooden hulls out of it, and I have plans for some of those in the future, and still probably won't waste the money on it. The cabinet grade plywood available at Lowes and Home Depot should be the most cost effective. We just bought a couple sheets of that to make the stringers on the canvas kayaks we are going to be building soon. The last kayak dad made lasted 20 years before he sold it, and it only used sheathing grade. I would just coat a plywood deck in spar varnish when I install it, if I ever went the plywood route (aluminum is oh so much more better. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: )


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## canis521 (Sep 15, 2008)

Thanks for the welcomes all!

I am leaning towards aluminum. What alloy would be best for this project- which would resist corrosion best? What thickness would you recommend? I can get pretty decent pricing on 24"x48" diamond plate- but it would mean seams- not sure if it would be a good idea. 

There is a local company that makes all kind of foam products for construction. I would assume they have a closed cell foam product that would work. I will let everyone know what I find. 

I was a bit leery of the amount of space the console would take up but I think I will be okay. I usually hunt with myself and one other plus one of my two dogs (on occasion both dogs). Honestly I am not sure what it would entail to remove/move the console and all its integrated components- like the steering wheel!


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 15, 2008)

bassboy1 said:


> dedawg1149 said:
> 
> 
> > welcome aboard the foam in a can is not closed cell it will hold water you need a closed cell type foam ,i would go with marine grade plywood for the floor
> ...


 i guess i was wrong on the foam thought i had read somewhere were it was not closed cell,my bad but i will stick with marine grade plywood my boat turn out perfect and my carpet aint coming lose everywhere


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## bassboy1 (Sep 15, 2008)

canis521 said:


> Thanks for the welcomes all!
> 
> I am leaning towards aluminum. What alloy would be best for this project- which would resist corrosion best? What thickness would you recommend? I can get pretty decent pricing on 24"x48" diamond plate- but it would mean seams- not sure if it would be a good idea.
> 
> ...


5052 would be the best for boat work alloys. It has excellent corrosion resistance, easily workable, bends well, welds well etc. But, you may have to settle. On my boat, I used 6061 T6, just because that is what I could get a good price on. It eliminated all possibility of bending, but it is significantly stiffer than some others. I didn't do any welding - just riveting, but the 6061 would be a fairly good candidate for welding. If you are planning on leaving the aluminum bare, you may want to go with a 3000 alloy - not as stiff, but has the best finish. Don't know the specs on corrosion resistant though. 

As far as the plywood. This is my opinion, and my opinion only, but marine grade isn't worth it. It costs, what, about 90 bucks a sheet these days? :shock: The difference is that it is made of a fir, whereas the cabinet ply or better yet, the sandply (has footballs in outer layers, but isn't as fine as cabinet ply) is made of usually spruce. Spruce, in and of itself, isn't horrible for boatbuilding, and in fact, some of the kayak and sailboat plans we have call for spruce. The other difference is that in the marine ply has footballs in all the layers, whereas the sandply has it only on the outer layers. Plus, for 35 bucks a sheet, as opposed to 90, unless you are made of money, the answer seems clear _again, in my opinion._


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 15, 2008)

there is a supply company here were i get marine grade for 25.00 a sheet =D>


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## bassboy1 (Sep 15, 2008)

dedawg1149 said:


> there is a supply company here were i get marine grade for 25.00 a sheet =D>


Well aren't you lucky. I can't even get the project grade sandply for that down here.


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## canis521 (Sep 15, 2008)

Bassboy1-

What thickness did you use? Did you use a single sheet to cover everything, or did you have seams? If you had seams did you do anything to seal the seam? I do plan on putting carpet or some other material on the aluminum. 

Should the aluminum be attached directly to the runners on the hull or should there be a material (i.e., rubber stripping, weather stripping, etc)to dampen the metal to metal contact?


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## dedawg1149 (Sep 15, 2008)

yeah cabinet grade is 10.00 just i have to buy it when he gets it in goes guick,that is why i use marine grade


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## fowlmood77 (Sep 15, 2008)

Try this guy for foam. 
https://www.jgreer.com/Foam Page.htm
I have done business with this guy before, prices are good and products are quality.


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## Waterwings (Sep 15, 2008)

canis521 said:


> ...Should the aluminum be attached directly to the runners on the hull or _should there be a material (i.e., rubber stripping, weather stripping, etc)to dampen the metal to metal contact?_



If I were doing it I would probably add something between the metal surfaces.


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## SlimeTime (Sep 15, 2008)

I don't think I'd add anything between the metal. Say you rivet things together, anything between them could allow some movement between the parts, and that movement could either enlarge the holes, or stress the rivets.

As far as seams, incorporate them into the floorplan. If you can run a seam down the center of the front casting deck, then let that be where your hatches open, then you've only got a small section of stationary seam.

ST


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## bassboy1 (Sep 16, 2008)

Take a look at my project page to get a better idea of what I am talking about.
https://tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=4077
I think there are more pictures in my other thread, that has worked its way back in the boat conversion section, if you want to search for it.

Because my ribs are 16 inches on center, and the .090 wasn't strong enough to span that distance, I used 1 x 1 square lengthwise down the hull at a closer spacing to rivet the sheet too. I bought all of my aluminum from the scrapyard used (cut offs from companies that scrap them, sheets that people no longer need and want out of their barn etc.), I had to put some seams in the deck. At each of these seams, I cut pieces of the same material, 2" wide, and riveted it underneath the seam, with 1" touching each piece. 

I wouldn't put any rubber or anything under it either. Aluminum work hardens, so every time it flexes with the rubber mounting, it is weakening. Plus, the deck actually will provide more strength to the hull (jons only have side to side stringers - nothing front to back like larger hulls, so the deck will help a bit with flex there). Rubber mounting it will undo any help that the deck would provide to the boat's integrity.


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## canis521 (Sep 16, 2008)

Thanks for all the info everyone. 

Bassboy1- great pictorial of your build. What is it about the carpet work you found you hated? 

I was thinking my next step should probably be painting so any further advice let me know. To start with I would like to remove the stickers- any solvent work or do I need to be cautious with a reaction to aluminum?


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## canis521 (Sep 16, 2008)

Also anyone have a picture or diagram of an easy to build (prefer wood) motor stand?


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## smoody (Sep 16, 2008)

Depending on outboard size, you can just use a wood sawhorse


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## bassboy1 (Sep 16, 2008)

canis521 said:


> What is it about the carpet work you found you hated?


The fact that no power tools are involved. :shock: :lol: :lol: 

No, not really - no power tools are involved in electrical work, and I do like that. There are a couple things I hate about it. First of all, and most importantly, was the gluing. If it could be stapled, I would have liked it better, but there were no wrapping capabilities, and no stapling. Everything had to be measured precisely, and trimmed perfectly before it was attached in any way. Not to mention, the glue was a total pain. On a porch or something with wide space, it would not have been a problem at all, but the spaces are just real small, with tight radiuses. The biggest mistake I made was carpeting inside the hatches. I should have used something else in them, because the deck carpeting wasn't that bad, and the lids have an easier method - I just didn't employ it.


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## canis521 (Sep 16, 2008)

I am not too excited about working withe carpet either. Hydroturf sounds like great stuff with the caveat that once the adhesive is in place there isnt much to correct errors- and carpet is a bit cheaper. 

The ribs on my boat are 12" on center so I will factor that for thickness. I have stainless steel sheets at work that would be plenty to finish this, what are the thoughts on using stainless? Is weight a factor? Not sure the difference. The good thing is they are paid for. 

Every time I look at this thing I think of something different. Hopefully I get it mostly right the first time.

I am thinking of removing the built out portion of the inside of the hull- it looks like its only function is to attach the rod holder, and the controller near the console. 





I would need to drill out the rivets that go through the hull; what is the best way to fill these holes? And prep for painting?

Do you think this would push the console to close to the controller (to the right, thinking my shoulder may be hitting the controller)? 

Thanks once again.


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## bassboy1 (Sep 16, 2008)

canis521 said:


> I would need to drill out the rivets that go through the hull; what is the best way to fill these holes? And prep for painting?


More rivets. You can get them at Grainger, or grainger.com, as well as aircraftspruce.com. If you have access to an air chisel, buy a rivet tip for it. They are on ebay all the time. On one side, you hit it with the air chisel, and on the other, you get a friend to hold a steel chunk, or a hand sledge up against the back of the rivet. Or, use a hand sledge or large ball peen hammer on both sides (one holding, one hitting). We put about 30 rivets into holes in my hull where I drilled them out to pull out side panels.


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## Deno (Sep 17, 2008)

I’m restoring an 18 ft …. I’m going with marine plywood and epoxy.. Then non skid on top.. Deno


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## canis521 (Sep 17, 2008)

Deno- I am curious on your progress, keep us updated.

I looked at the wiring today- I think it may be best to start over.








I am not sure if I want to keep the console as is or not. I see some on the forum have standing consloles, any feedback on those would be appreciated. I also need to replace the housing for the steering cable, I assume I should be able to get that at any boat supply place. 

Slow but steady progress.


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## ben2go (Sep 18, 2008)

I would replace the fuses with circuit breakers.If you pop a fuse,you may not have one handy and circuit breakers can be reset.Another thing I would do is use GM style weather pack wiring connectors.The ones with the little bellows on them.Just some ideas I had for a future project,maybe they'll work for you.


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## canis521 (Sep 18, 2008)

Okay I got all the wiring cleared out. What is the best (easiest) way to start the wiring. Again I am pretty illiterate when it come to wiring. Does anyone know of a web site that will give step by step instructions for wiring the boat. 

What I am looking to wire would be (let me know if I am missing anything or any other ideas):
1) electric start
2) navigation lights
3) there are 2 courtesy lights- one on the side of the console and one on the bow directed toward the casting deck
4) fish finder
5) 12vdc plugs- one on bow, 2 at console- for handheld GPS, dog collar chargers, coffee maker (just kiddin')
6) bilge
7) wire for bow lights- I don't have the lights yet
8) I forgot to mention the speedometer and tach- I suppose they are there might as well use them.
9) and at least wire for trolling motor (it did come with one that had a bent shaft- can this be replaced- but only 25# thrust, which I would think is undersized for this boat)

I currently have one battery, would a second be needed?

Any help with materials needed would be appreciated also.

Thanks again everyone.


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## ben2go (Sep 18, 2008)

What about trolling motors?I would do 1 battery just for engine and it's instruments,and 1 battery for everything else.If you have a trolling motor,I would add an extra battery to extend your run time.


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## canis521 (Sep 19, 2008)

I think I will go with an extra battery. I think I am slowly starting to understand the wiring- of course I haven't actually started it yet. It really is making me feel kinda stupid. Probably a lot easier than I am making it seem. 

I am going to run to Cabelas this afternoon and try to get what I need. Hopefully there will be someone knowledgeable enough to walk me through this.


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## ben2go (Sep 19, 2008)

12V wiring isn't to difficult on a boat.Just keep it simple and use circuit breakers rated for amps the equipment requires.Size your wire to the amount of amps each piece of equipment needs.Any questions we can help.If you have manuals for your equipment,they should have a wiring diagram, or at least a description of what is needed to protect the equipment.


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## canis521 (Sep 19, 2008)

Okay so I am back from Cabelas. According to them I can get away with one battery- if I understand I will need another (or two) if I put in a trolling motor. 

I picked up a fused 6 switch panel- https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/pod/horizontal-pod.jsp?id=0001616&navCount=1&parentId=cat21310&masterpathid=&navAction=push&cmCat=&parentType=index&indexId=cat21310&rid=true
Per suggestions the Johnny Ray Battery Terminal connectors- https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0001135010225a&navCount=3&podId=0001135&parentId=cat21310&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=&catalogCode=2UG&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat21310&hasJS=true

And this to replace an existing badly corroded one- https://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0001502012343a&navCount=2&podId=0001502&parentId=cat600053&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=IJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat600053&hasJS=true

So if I understand this correctly, going with one deep cycle battery:

I will connect the positive and negative from the outboard to the corresponding terminals. For the instruments and controller I will run the postive lead with a fuse for each (should have picked up the fuse box while I was there) to the instrument and then the negative back to the negative terminal on the battery.

Then I will attatch the Johnny Ray battery terminal connector to the corresponding terminals and run one wire from the positive terminal to the 6 switch panel. From each switch I will run a wire to each accessory I want to power (and according to the guy at Cabelas I can run all 3 of the 12v plugs through one switch), then take each negative from each accessory and run them back to the negative Johnny Ray battery terminal connector. And that should do it....right? 

If I do it this way (pending I actually have this correct) what gauge wire should I use for each step?

The other option is to use 2 batteries. My understanding here is to use the exisiting deep cycle to power all accessories, and buy a regular 12 v battery for a starting battery. Then run outboard, all instruments and the controller from this battery. I was told the alternator in my Mercury 35hp would charge this battery. Is this really correct?

Is it my understanding that grounding is not needed? That doesn't make any sense to me. Please give me feedback.


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## Zum (Sep 20, 2008)

I've read your post a few times...still not sure if I understand what you want but here we go.
First for your instruments and controller...are you using the switch panel for this?If not,I can see putting in a fuse and doing it that way but whats the switch panel for,just the 12V plugs?
On the 12V plugs,using one switch...might be possible depending on what your running on the 12V plugs(s) at the time.Not sure what your using them for so it's kinda hard to say what size amps and wire size.If you put to big of a fuse(breaker)it might not blow(trip)in time to save whatever your using.
Your outboards alternator doesn't put out enough to charge your battery,especially if your running alot of stuff off the battery.If you had one starting battery it might keep it charged but it is a good thing to charge it manually after every use.Does your outboard have a pull cord?
Sorry,if I misunderstood your post...
On 12V dc only pos neg is needed....Some boats use ground(neg)strips but it's not needed here.It's just something like your Johnny Ray thing with all your connections going to one point.


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## canis521 (Sep 20, 2008)

Thanks for your help... I think I can clear things up a bit.

The switches will be run off the deep cycle battery and used for:

*navigation lights
*courtesy lights
*bilge pump
*12vdc plugs- I will use these for my handheld GPS, spotlight, charge dog collars,charge cell phone?,etc.
*this will leave 2 open switches for future use

I think I will buy a second battery for a starting battery- and this should NOT be a deep cycle, correct? Off of the starting battery I plan to run the instruments and the controller- with a fuse box between the postive terminal and the components.


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## Waterwings (Sep 20, 2008)

When I owned my Tracker, w/50hp Merc on the back, both of my batteries, including the starting batt, were deep cycle. Both batteries I have on my current rig (no gas motor on this one) are also deep cycle.


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## canis521 (Sep 20, 2008)

I was told (or read) somewhere that a deepcycle does not have the cranking amps that a regular battery has, but it obviously will work. 

I forgot to answer Zum- there is not a pull cord on my outboard.


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## Waterwings (Sep 20, 2008)

Here's a good explanation by Capt. Ahab back in April. There's also a link in his post about batteries:



> I woudl not waste the time with the lawn tractor battery - you can run this with any car type battery (Starting Battery or "SLI" Starting, Lighting, Ignition) just fine, but a deep cycle marine battery will always work better, especially if you might run a trolling motor or pump in the future. Get a deep cycle
> 
> 
> Found this that answers lots of battery questions:
> ...


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## Zum (Sep 20, 2008)

*courtesy lights...no problem
*bilge pump...no problem,if you just want to turn it on manually
...for an auto bilge(float)I think you need a different switch(on/auto)
*12vdc plugs...might work but if you plan on running the GPS,spot light
and charging dog collar at the same time,you will probably 
need a high amp breaker.If something goes wrong and the 
breaker doesn't trip untill the higher amperage,you run the 
risk of ruining your GPS because it is of a lower amperage if
used by itself(hope that makes sence)
*navagation lights...they will work but if you want only the anchor light 
to come on(stern)you will have to take out your bow light or
use a different type switch(DPDT)or you could wire the stern
light to another switch,or maybe where your at you don't need
an anchor light.
Starting batteries are better for starting..short bursts of power consumption
deep cycle hold the amps longer
I'm not a electrician,don't hold what I say as against meI pretty sure it's correct...plus I gotta go take the boy to hockey practice


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## canis521 (Sep 26, 2008)

A few questions I hope to get some help on.

First, how do I disconnect the steering cable so I can completely remove the console? I have it disconnected from the motor but when I took apart the part under the steering wheel I had no idea what I was doing. Before getting a bit frustrated I thought I should ask. 

When I pull the plate there is a pulley that the cable wraps around, do I need to pull that cable and if so how? 



Sorry not a great picture, the plate is on the right side under all the wiring. 

The cable housing is cracked pretty bad so I would like to replace that- am I better off getting a whole new (or used) steering cable kit? 

On a related thought. Is it possible to convert an outboard to a tiller system? Just a thought, it would free up a fair amount of space not having the console (as was mentioned earlier). 

I am ready to start painting (got the paint from lockstockbarrell.com today), just need to get to the bottom to get it prepped and painted.


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## SlimeTime (Sep 27, 2008)

On the lower portion of this link, you'll find a chart that will provide you with wire size per amp draw:

https://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volta.htm

Also "Marine" batteries aren't really deep cycle or "regular" starting batteries, they're a cross between the two, so you get the best of both worlds so to speak. I'd use a marine battery for your starting battery, but wouldn't run out & buy a new one of you have something that will work in the meanwhile.

If it were me, I'd run 1-larger feed to a fuse block at the console, and feed out of the fuseblock to your controls (switch panel). This will help eliminate a bunch of smaller wiring, which will be helpful if you ever have problems. Be sure you mark all your wiring, and color coding it would be even better (meaning don't run all your circuits in all 1 color, and certainly not both + & - in similar colors). Running all your -'s in 1 color is fine, it easily identifies them no matter where they are in the boat. Record (on paper) what colors feed what circuit, and make a copy, keep 1 on the boat & the other with your records.

ST


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## scottbustech (Sep 30, 2008)

hey k9 nice too see you found this place alright. Ill give ya a tip on the conversion of a console drive too tiller drive PRICE IT OUT that stuff is spendy or so ive been told by the man i traded my console moter too for a tiller version. but you are right it does free up a ton of space since you already said you need too replace the steer cable if it becomes cost prohibitive too turn your console too a tiller you may look at moving that console all the way rear ward so your rear deck shelf area becomes a seat hope thats clear. 
Another thing too consider is how your dog will get in and out im puting my blind on this weekend and found im gonna need too build a shelf for my dog so she dont bottom out climbing in off the ladder and can still clear the blind frame.
as far as your wiring goes id scrap all that you have left and run some heavy gauge wire too the front and back and run a hot and negative stud front and rear in a water proof outdoor plug in panel and wire the componants off of those studs with circuit breakers inline. also what ever you do do not ground too your hull run ground wires too each componant
also why are you worried about charging a shock collar during a trip mine ussually last 3 or 4 days without even starting too trip the low battery light 
main thing with a duck boat is keep it simple if you cant get repair parts at napa, home depot or walmart id keep it off your boat those big trips too no-wheresville population you, your pup, and a million ducks suck when you have too contimplate risking it all with no bilge pump or nav lights or sumthin couse the cabelas super widget broke and they are far away or not open till 9
hit me with an email if ya have any questions 
Scott Gentry (duckboats.net )


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## canis521 (Sep 30, 2008)

Thanks for the advice Scott- and the heads up on this forum. I did scrap all the old wire and found tinned wire at Fleet Farm for much cheaper than anywhere else, they also have the connectors with the heat shrink. 

Yeah I know my dog collars charge lasts quite some time, just hypothetical- sometimes things seem to happen at the worse time.

I am just about ready to paint, just a bit more prepping and should be painting tomorrow. I have not decided 100% yet on the console, once I get the decking attached I want to see how it feels for room. 

I would like to get (or more likely build) a blind, but it will probably be a winter project. Definitely will keep the dog's reentry in mind.


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## canis521 (Oct 5, 2008)

Here is my progress as of today. Everything has been stripped out/off/down. The stickers are off, wiring is gone, and the aluminum is etched and ready to paint. A friend is going to spray it for me while I am out of town, it should be ready when I get back and I can start reassembling everything. 

Hopefully it goes well and I can use it for the late duck season. 










I left the carpet on for now, figure it will be an off season project to remove it. I am a bit concerned about weight distribution- I plan on using the right live well box as a battery area (one battery). The left livewell is useable as is (the right did not have aerator hooked up). The console (and hence my 250#) is on the right. I guess I will see how it goes and change if need be.


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## Waterwings (Oct 5, 2008)

Nice work, and looking fwd to the finished product! 8)


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## ben2go (Oct 5, 2008)

Coming along nicely.


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## SlimeTime (Oct 5, 2008)

Looking good! Kind of reminds me of the layout of an old 'glass Hustler boat I had.

ST


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## dedawg1149 (Oct 5, 2008)

looking good =D>


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## Zum (Oct 5, 2008)

Looks great.
Once it's painted,it's going to look factory.
Looks kinda cool aluminum color.


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## canis521 (Oct 27, 2008)

I was out of town for a couple of weeks but made some progress the last week. I still plan on ripping out the rest of the carpet during winter but I wanted to use the boat this season yet. 

Some of what I learned as far as wiring:

1. Not as difficult as I made it out to be;
2. Using a fuse with too high of an amp rating will not work (assuming too much resistance?);
3. I should not, will not, and cannot ever be an electrician.

Everything seems to work. I hope to get it on water later this week and start noting what I will change during the off season. 

Thanks for everyone's help.


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## Zum (Oct 28, 2008)

Although it is very bad to use a fuse with a higher rating then what it is suppose to have,I'm not sure why it wouldn't have worked.
Just think of a fuse as a peice of wire,a small thin one at that.Not to much resistance,maybe the higher fuses were bad?

Keep up the good work,your boat is looking good.


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