# Bearing Grease seal, spindle - should there be a gap?



## KingDarius

I am replacing the bearings on a trailer I bought. This is my second time doing it because the first time caused grease to go all over the inside tire rim and wheel well. So, I decided to investigate.

When I took it all apart and cleaned it, I dry fit JUST the grease seal on the spindle. The grease seal is a double lipped one with the spring and is in mint condition. HOWEVER, when dry fitting I noticed there is a gap between the seal and spindle. 

Is that how it is supposed to be, or should the grease seal be SNUG to the spindle?? The gap is about 1/16 of an inch. Do I just have the wrong size grease seal? The bearings and whatnot in the kit I bought all fit just fine.

Please god someone help. I called 3 tractor supply places and no one has a clue what I am talking about...

So much thanks in advance...


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## seasprite

It's normal to have grease on the inside of the rim and on the tire. That means the grease is being pushed through. If you have to fill the hub after every use, you might have the wrong size bearing. I can't see how that could be possible, you'd think you would have some bearing damage??? I guess a space is needed for the grease to pass through. How often do you fill the hub? Do you have bearing buddies? No more info to help you.


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## KingDarius

Its normal to have grease spraying about?! That seems odd but Im just a rookie with this stuff. With there being a gap, is water supposed to be able to get in? Or does the excess grease help prevent this?

When I cleaned them, there was a s-ton of grease in the hub. So everything is well greased.

I do have bearing buddies. The bearings are in mint condition, I bought them new. They are the correct size as they ride perfectly on the spindle...its the seal I am worried about.


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## dieselfixer

King It is not normal to have grease all over the hub and tire. The seal should have a snug fit on the spindle this will keep the grease in and the water out, if you can get a double lip seal that is the way to go. If you measure the spindle and the hub with a dial caliper to get the exact size then go to a bearing supply house they will be able to sell you the correct size seal.


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## crazymanme2

> It is not normal to have grease all over the hub and tire. The seal should have a snug fit on the spindle this will keep the grease in and the water out, if you can get a double lip seal that is the way to go. If you measure the spindle and the hub with a dial caliper to get the exact size then go to a bearing supply house they will be able to sell you the correct size seal.



+1

If your getting grease on the inside you have a problem or your over greasing your bearing buddies. [-X 

It is also possible that the spindle is worn. [-o<


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## fool4fish1226

crazymanme2 said:


> It is not normal to have grease all over the hub and tire. The seal should have a snug fit on the spindle this will keep the grease in and the water out, if you can get a double lip seal that is the way to go. If you measure the spindle and the hub with a dial caliper to get the exact size then go to a bearing supply house they will be able to sell you the correct size seal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> +1
> 
> If your getting grease on the inside you have a problem or your over greasing your bearing buddies. [-X
> 
> It is also possible that the spindle is worn. [-o<
Click to expand...



+2


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## PSG-1

There should NOT be any kind of gap between the spindle and the rear seal. Sounds like you have a 1 inch spindle, and you've got a 1 & 1/16" seal....not sure how that happened if you bought the bearings and seals in a kit. If grease is slinging out, then, you know water is getting in. 

Check the ID of the seal with a set of calipers, I bet it measures 1.0625" instead of 1.000"

If it does measure at 1 inch, then, you should check the OD of the spindle, particularly where the seal rides, to make sure it hasn't worn down....although, it would take a LOT to wear it down, like having a bunch of sand, and going for a while with no grease.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls

Those bearing kits will fit most but not all trailers. You are going to need different seals.


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## KingDarius

Guys thank you so much. Headed to the store to get some new grease seals!

Anyone know an easy way to get the old one out without going from the inside of the hub? I needed to move the trailer last night and had to repack and install everything. Be nice if I can somehow just somehow pull the old seal out without messing with it from inside the hub...

Btw the spindle measured 1-1/4. Im guessin the seal i have is 1-3/8???


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## RivRunR

KingDarius said:


> Anyone know an easy way to get the old one out without going from the inside of the hub? I needed to move the trailer last night and had to repack and install everything. Be nice if I can somehow just somehow pull the old seal out without messing with it from inside the hub...



Just put the hub on a workbench seal up, use a punch (or screwdriver) + hammer, and carefully smack the old seal a couple of times until it creases a bit, then it should just lift out. Destroys it, but so what?


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## PSG-1

You can also try to pry out the old seal, using a small prybar (one that looks like a big flat-blade screw driver)

Don't you just LOVE working on bearings and hubs? LMAO! I usually end up with more grease on me than what I put back in the hubs. :roll:


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## Quackrstackr

Take one of those seals with you to compare against the ones that you are going to pick up as a precaution.


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## KingDarius

OK here's an update. The grease seal i have is a GS-1250 which has an ID of 1.25". The bearings are 44649 and they fit perfectly.

When measured with a caliper the actual size of the spindle (where the seal rides, the actual spindle is 1") is 1.23". It doesnt look "worn" either...but maybe it is? The trailer is from '92 (I bought the boat off some dude)

What the hell is going on? I cant find a seal for 1.23. I am going to lose my mind...

Thoughts? I tried NAPA and they are about as useful as the customer service of tractor supply...


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## lckstckn2smknbrls

If your races are number L44610 see if you can find seal numbers
1.) 10174vb
2.) T534823
3.) T515191vb
They are for 1-1/4" ID.
Bearing number L44649 is for 1-1/16" spindle L44643 is for 1" spindle.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls

Also try SKF oil seal # 12437


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## link7

I had the exact same problem. I completely replaced the hubs, bearings, races, and seals. When I put it all together and took it for a 20mi test drive on the freeway one of the seals leaked and sprayed all over the inside of one of the wheels. I figured I screwed up, either bent the seal when i was installing it or over greased the bearing buddy. It was the right size seal.

I ordered a new seal took it all apart and put it back together and still had the same problem. 

I decided to just say screw it and leave it. If you've got bearing buddies and you check that they're full of grease before you go, or even right before you launch, you should be fine. 

There should be a positive pressure on the grease from the bearing buddy keeping the water from coming in the seal. Just keep it full of grease (but not overfilled) and you're good in my opinion.


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## PSG-1

If the rear seal does not fit the spindle correctly, it's not all good. Water can infiltrate the bearings, whether you've got them greased or not. In saltwater, this means a very fast demise for the bearings. But even in freshwater, it's still going to take its toll sooner or later.


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## KingDarius

It seems the best thing to do is replace the axle/spindle combo...that seems to be what everything is pointing at. Im guessing that over the 20 years, where the grease seal rides just wore down.

Im assuming with a new axle/spindles the grease seal seat will measure 1.25". Would that be correct?

I just want to do this the right way.

The the suggested seals won fit over the lip when the seal rides.


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## Quackrstackr

If the fit issue is from wear, there will be a defined groove in the collar that the seal rides on. I see a shiny spot but it's hard to tell from the picture whether that is an actual groove or not. There should be no groove... just a flat, smooth surface.

An SKF 12590 has a 1.23 id. but I don't know what od you need.

Do you have the original grease seals that came off of the axle for cross reference? I am assuming those actually sealed at one time?


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## KingDarius

1.986" is what the OD on the GS-1250 that is in there now has, so I assume its the same. When I got the trailer, the inside of the wheels were caked in grease. Its the same seal as the gs-1250...

There is a slight groove...


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## Quackrstackr

Your shaft measures 1.23 but there appears to be a .0625" gap, something is definitely wrong. I suspect that groove is your culprit. It doesn't take long to cut one if grit gets in the seal.

I don't know that I've ever owned a trailer with a pressed on bushing for the seal to ride on like yours has. I wonder it it hasn't been worked on before for the same issue?


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## KingDarius

No no, the gap should be .02"

The seal seat is 1.23". The seal that I have is 1.25" thus a 0.02" gap...


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## Quackrstackr

It would be a .01" gap radially but you said it was 1/16" originally. I was confused (which doesn't take a lot sometimes). :lol: 

Is it measuring 1.23 in the groove or out there on the smooth part of the bushing?


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## KingDarius

Wait now Im confused...there isn't supposed to be a gap from what everyone is saying...but you now say there should be...

(the 1/16" was a guess because I didnt have a dial caliper at the time)

I thought it was supposed to be snug to the seat...


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## KingDarius

Well, I ran by my buddy's house because he has my old boat. I measured the spindle on that one and lo and behold, its 1.25. SO at this point, I betting all my marbles I need a new axle/spindles. 

After all this drama, it has to be the problem. Probably was machined incorrectly or something. I dont know. I hope this solves my problem before I get locked in a mental ward.

Will post and update once the new axle is obtained.


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## jasper60103

Interesting problem. When I changed my wheel bearings last fall, I do recall seeing on the bearing kit package saying the seal was for 1" & 1 -1/16" wheel bearings. I'm not sure this is always the case for wheel bearing kits? Did you happen to notice this on your wheel bearing kit package?


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## Loggerhead Mike

Go to a parts store in person, they should be able to get any sized seal.

Mic the groove best you can and get a seal .001-.002 smaller depending on how deep you think the groove is.

Oil the lip of the seal and make sure its a good snug fit on the spindle before installing it in the hub.

It could be a bad machine job but id try another set of seals before spending the cash on a new axle


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## Quackrstackr

KingDarius said:


> Wait now Im confused...there isn't supposed to be a gap from what everyone is saying...but you now say there should be...
> 
> (the 1/16" was a guess because I didnt have a dial caliper at the time)
> 
> I thought it was supposed to be snug to the seat...



It is supposed to be snug. You have a .01 radial gap if it is a 1.25 seal and 1.23 sleeve.

Is the entire sleeve/bushing 1.23 or just right there where the seal rides?


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## KingDarius

its is 1.23" only where the seal rides...

Is there maybe a bushing or something i can get to slide over the area to bring it up to 1.25"?

...new trailer axle is $100 of unaffordability...


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## KingDarius

Thanks Loggerhead.

The problem that I am having is that BOTH NAPA and Autozone tell me I need a part number for them to even look up a seal. Thats where I run into a roadblock and dont know where else to go...

And I've spend literally hours on the internet trying to find something that will fit the 1.23" with 1.98" bore.


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## bduffel

I'd say get a good measurement on the seal surface for the I.D. and get the correct O.D. of the seal and contact:

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=24134

https://www.shopchampiontrailers.com/

They are most helpful and maybe you could just get new standard spindle(s) if yours are wierd or worn.

Good Luck


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## Loggerhead Mike

We found mine by size only, in the book at carquest. The part numbers had long wore off the originals


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## KingDarius

checked with https://www.shopchampiontrailers.com/ and they couldn't help. They, like others, had no seal for that size.


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## KingDarius

*PROBLEM SOLVED (i hope...)*

I went to a different NAPA. Spoke to another guy who was helppful as all get out. Found a seal - 12165 with an ID of 1.219. Its a tight fit, but it seems to be the one.

Thank you everyone so much. Such an ordeal I am glad its finally over.

*Lessons learned:*
1. There should be no gap between the seal seat and the seal.
2. No water should be getting into the hubs. And no grease should be spraying about.
3. There is a seal for even weird diameters.
4. The internet, while useful, is exceptionally frustrating to find "hard to find" parts.
5. If one NAPA tells you they cant find your seal without a number, try another NAPA. Dont bother with Autozone as I went to two of them and they didnt/couldnt help.

Thanks again you guys. Youre help kept me sane and I learned alot. Time to hit the water.

Cheers!!!


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## Quackrstackr

Good deal.

Napa is good around here at looking up things per the reference book. Sounds like you got a lazy employee the first time.


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## PSG-1

Glad to hear you got the problem solved. Man, what a monkey-f***!! 

I've never heard of that kind of difficulty locating a bearing seal for a trailer hub.


If you ever run into any more oddball problems like that, try a company called "Expediter" 

They carry all kinds of trailer parts, if they make it, these folks have it!


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## KingDarius

Yes, what a nightmare. I plan to head back to that NAPA to have a chat with the manager. That guy cost me hours of agony and almost >150 bucks for a new axle that I didnt need. I cant imagine what he may have cost other people who know even less than I do about things. Not cool.

Thanks again fellers. Today was a really good day.


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