# Switch Panel Needed



## wmk0002 (Oct 8, 2018)

I plan on mounting a pre-made switch panel in the cover of an electrical waterproof junction box for when I begin to wire up my boat. I'd like one with 6 or 7 switches plus a 12V outlet and usb ports. I've seen a few good looking panels on Ebay and Amazon but they all seem to be sold and shipped directly from China and I question the quality of them. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on some pre-made ones to check out? Or possibly a place (maybe a site sponsor?) who makes custom ones for a fair price.


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## Brian121804 (Oct 8, 2018)

I used this SeaSense panel, very happy with it after a few years...
https://www.amazon.com/SeaSense-Marine-Way-Switch-Panel/dp/B003E24MKA

Not sure if they offer a panel with everything you're looking for.

I mounted it on this junction box...
https://www.homedepot.com/p/6-in-x-6-in-x-4-in-Gray-PVC-Junction-Box-E987RR/100404096

I believe Blue Sea is quality stuff. IIRC it was a bit pricey for my needs. 

I originally installed a panel from Bass Pro Shops, it was JUNK.
From day one I had issues with switches randomly not working:
https://www.basspro.com/shop/en/bass-pro-shops-rocker-switch-panels


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## MrGiggles (Oct 8, 2018)

I have used two ebay panels now without an issue. If you look around you can find sellers that are based in the US.

Sometimes the precrimped wires are not done that well, so keep an eye on them.

IMO, they're a bargain considering what they include. My big boat has the 6 gang panel. My little boat has the 3 gang panel with the larger rocker style switches, the small switch and LCD are for the timed livewell function.


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## wmk0002 (Oct 8, 2018)

kdgrills said:


> I used this SeaSense panel, very happy with it after a few years...
> https://www.amazon.com/SeaSense-Marine-Way-Switch-Panel/dp/B003E24MKA
> 
> Not sure if they offer a panel with everything you're looking for.
> ...



Thanks! That switch would be fine for what I need really. I can always add a usb port to the side of the junction box. 

When you ran the wires into/out of the box, did you seal it around them to keep bugs and stuff out?


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## wmk0002 (Oct 8, 2018)

MrGiggles said:


> I have used two ebay panels now without an issue. If you look around you can find sellers that are based in the US.
> 
> Sometimes the precrimped wires are not done that well, so keep an eye on them.
> 
> IMO, they're a bargain considering what they include. My big boat has the 6 gang panel. My little boat has the 3 gang panel with the larger rocker style switches, the small switch and LCD are for the timed livewell function.



I will look into them further. I really do like styling and layout of those over most others. How is the circuit protection handled in those you have? Are they breaker style switches or individually fused?


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## Brian121804 (Oct 8, 2018)

wmk0002 said:


> When you ran the wires into/out of the box, did you seal it around them to keep bugs and stuff out?



No, I mounted the box to my transom, drilled a hole in the bottom, & ran them through.
I figured that would provide drainage if there was any water infiltration.
My boat is stored indoors though.

Here's a bad pic from several years ago, with the junk Bass Pro panel...


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## wmk0002 (Oct 8, 2018)

kdgrills said:


> wmk0002 said:
> 
> 
> > When you ran the wires into/out of the box, did you seal it around them to keep bugs and stuff out?
> ...



Thanks for the pic!


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## MrGiggles (Oct 8, 2018)

wmk0002 said:


> MrGiggles said:
> 
> 
> > I have used two ebay panels now without an issue. If you look around you can find sellers that are based in the US.
> ...



Both of those panels came with inline fuses. IIRC the 3 gang has a single fuse, while the six gang has 6 fuses, one for each circuit.

Its best to have a main fuse as close to the battery as possible as well, to protect the wiring before the panel.


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## DaleH (Oct 8, 2018)

For devices switched at the unit (like GPS, fishfinder or radio) or those permanently ‘hot’ whenever the battery switches is ON (like powered am/fm antenna & cig lighter accessory socket) I mount a fuse block into a deep, square Tupperware-type box that has an O-Ring seal. 

Add rubber grommets through the sides and it looks professional and is nearly waterproof.
Works slick!

_Less I have it mounted vertically, but the picture displays it sideways ..._


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## gnappi (Oct 9, 2018)

The panel in the pic below is available in the U.S on Ebay. Mounting and making connections to lights etc. are your main issues. I used standard SAE (used for solar applications) female and male polarized QD connectors. The circuit breakers are all 15A but the same surface mount types are available as replacements as low as 2A.


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## gnappi (Oct 9, 2018)

PS. Reliability on the first one I made about a year ago (now on my GF's son's boat) and the newest one has been excellent though one reader here said they had two DMM's go bad. I have several of the DMM's being used, one in a solar panel, two in boats and one at my battery charging station and have not had one go bad. As a matter of fact, I've had a few running full time 24/7 for over a year without a failure. 

Even though the sellers "claim" that the components are marine grade, I bought a couple of spare switches, a voltmeter and USB outlet. The panel components are all pretty standardized as far as mounting holes go and if something goes bad they're easily sourced and replaced. I took the precaution of having my GF make a clear plastic cover for the panel. If you mount it on / in a boat bench or existing console I think it would be a good idea to fabricate a way to protect it from water intrusion.

Also IMO think big as far as switches go. Mine has six switches on the commercial panel but I added more switches and three extra outlets. There's a 10 switch panel model out now, If it were available when I designed my console I would have bought that one... it would have simplified my design and fabrication. 

SAE QD polarized connectors to rear panel

1 Bilge pump
2 Front flood light
3 Instruments (Depth finder)
4 Accessory 
5 Cooling Fan (Yup it gets hot down here)
6 Separate 180 degree stern light
7/8 Dual rocker for Bow / 360 degree pole anchor light 
9 Horn

Panel mounted internal switching (no SAE connections to rear of the panel)

10 Master fused power switch 
11/12 Dual rocker for Green and white cabin lights


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## LDUBS (Oct 10, 2018)

*"For devices switched at the unit . . . . "*

Dale, why not do same or similar for switched accessories? 

(I know I'm going to feel dumb after I read the answer).


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## DaleH (Oct 10, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> ... why not do same or similar for switched accessories?


For a device with a switch to it, why COMPLICATE the wiring and add an added expense of an extra switch? For no benefit?

With anything wiring ... simpler is better, less expensive (but perfectly adequate for the task) and more robust ... as in less things to go wrong/fail.

I can see one using a smaller switch panel if only a few devices, but ...


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## LDUBS (Oct 10, 2018)

Aw, I got it Dale - thanks. I was thinking only about the circuit protection.


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## DaleH (Oct 10, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> Aw, I got it Dale - thanks. I was thinking only about the circuit protection.


It is ... admittedly, a _one-size-fits-all _for simpler boats with only a few powered circuits. 

But when re-wiring larger rigs, where you not only have switched and non-switched devices, but throw in circuits where you'd want no more than total 3% voltage drop across the run (life saving circuits, e.g., VHF, nav lights, etc.) vs. that of maximum 10% voltage drop as a rule (for any other circuit) ... then you'd want the options and expandability for different powered panels in use. 

When I re-wired my offshore boats, the main circuit from the common terminal of the batteries went to a block. That main run was duplicated to another spare secondary block, that could power the primary ones at a seconds notice. Full redundancy was my aim ...


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## wmk0002 (Oct 11, 2018)

I appreciate all of the replies and very good information. I'll prob go with one of the Ebay ones like have been posted since yall gave them the thumbs up. I'll add the mod to my boat thread when I get around to it.


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## wmk0002 (Oct 11, 2018)

I actually do have one follow up question...

Most panels come illuminated in blue or green. How bright are those at night and would an amber or red be easier on the eyes? I just wasn't sure if the common blue/green are obnoxiously bright, which I don't want.


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## gnappi (Oct 11, 2018)

wmk0002 said:


> I actually do have one follow up question... Most panels come illuminated in blue or green. How bright are those at night and would an amber or red be easier on the eyes? I just wasn't sure if the common blue/green are obnoxiously bright, which I don't want.



In some jurisdictions (like Florida) blue lighting is illegal to have exposed on a vehicle or vessel so depending location of the panel and how hard your law enforcement officers view it if you're stopped your main choices may be green and red.

I selected blue because I liked the color and the switches when lit are not visible outside of the boat. They are bright enough to see but don't affect night vision, but I haven't been out in pitch black so I can't say for sure if that's 100% true. Green may be better for most as it's known after several studies to be less an influence on night vision than blue or red. 

At any rate, even with them all on which I doubt I'd ever need I can't see them being too bright, if they were I could throw a towel on the panel. For simplicity sake whatever you select, the panels with individual circuit breakers are far easier to work with and fabricate around. 

What are you mounting it to? An existing console, bench seat, or are you fabricating something?


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## DaleH (Oct 11, 2018)

gnappi said:


> Green may be better for most as it's known after several studies to be less an influence on night vision than blue or red.


As with many things ..._* "maybe" ... *_

Keep in mind that although your eyes are more receptive to *green *light, we gain better visual acuity at lower light levels using that color than when using *red *light. However,_ if you use a light brighter than you actually need_, a brighter *green *light will have a more negative effect than an equally bright *red *light.

Myself? I choose red, but I'm used to it. And on my engine instrument/gauges, I just took out the OEM 'white' lamps and colored them red with a red Sharpie marker - *works slick!* Still too bright? Give them a 2nd coat ... repeat as needed.


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## gnappi (Oct 12, 2018)

DaleH said:


> gnappi said:
> 
> 
> > Green may be better for most as it's known after several studies to be less an influence on night vision than blue or red.
> ...



Good idea the marker, and likely more readily available than my solution. I buy at a craft store a few colors of fake "stained glass" brush on liquid which can be used for the same purpose.


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## wmk0002 (Oct 12, 2018)

gnappi said:


> wmk0002 said:
> 
> 
> > I actually do have one follow up question... Most panels come illuminated in blue or green. How bright are those at night and would an amber or red be easier on the eyes? I just wasn't sure if the common blue/green are obnoxiously bright, which I don't want.
> ...



This will go in my jon boat in my sig. I'm probably going to mount the junction box to a piece of aluminum spanning between the ribs that go up the sides. No matter where I decide to put it, it will be below the bow so it shouldn't be visible to other boats but I will check our regulations first. 

I also figured if the lights were ever too bright I could get frost the plastic somehow to dim them up some.


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## gnappi (Oct 13, 2018)

wmk0002 said:


> gnappi said:
> 
> 
> > wmk0002 said:
> ...



Actually, scuffing up the diffusers on the plastic is a pretty good idea. Maybe scotch brite or a dremel sanding wheel of some sort? 

The back of the panels are deeper than it seems due to the DMM, USB and cig appliance adapters length protruding behind whatever you mount it to. You'll need at least 2 1/4" free space between the gunnel wall and the face of the ribs.

Whatever you need to do you will discover after you get it home to look at it. Good luck send pix when you get it done.


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## gnappi (Oct 31, 2018)

I had some time on my hands and took some pix of the particular LED DMM that those MIC panels have and there's more than one issue to deal with in the pix. One is the sensitivity to the three colors of the CCD image sensor in the three cameras I used (One each LG stylo3, LG Premier pro and a still shot from my GoPro) another is the relative brightness of the LED's, and the third can only be addressed by the user, night vision / blindness effect.

In the pix, neither the green or blue are as bad as they seem because of the large halo in the pix that do not exist with the naked eye, but one thing is for sure, the red is much dimmer than either the green or blue. In this sample, my preference despite the science of night vision experts on visual acuity under man made light I would definitely NOT pick green. In this brand / model gauge, for sure RED will likely be the best choice. 

The first pic is from my LG Stylo, the second is a screen cap from my GoPro. The pic from the LG Premier was terrible.


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## wmk0002 (Nov 1, 2018)

Thanks! That is very helpful.

Right now I'm trying to find a switch panel with push button reset-able breakers. There are quite a few available that are very much like the ones you showed earlier; the only issue is that the common theme on a 6 gang switch is to come with 2 5A breakers, 2 10A, and 2 15A. I'd like to stick with 3A and 5A ones. I was going to contact some Ebay sellers to see if they can do a swap. Otherwise I see Blue Seas Systems has some that I could possibly buy separately and replace with.


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## LDUBS (Nov 1, 2018)

WMK -- do you have any concerns that the circuit breakers might not be as reliable as fuses? Just seems to me that there isn't much that can go wrong with a simple fuse. Not being critical -- just curious.


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## wmk0002 (Nov 1, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> WMK -- do you have any concerns that the circuit breakers might not be as reliable as fuses? Just seems to me that there isn't much that can go wrong with a simple fuse. Not being critical -- just curious.



I really don't, especially if I go with the Blue Seas ones. But the main appeal for breakers is space savings. I could do inline fuses within the panel box no problem but would have to remove the cover on the water to replace. Ideally I would go with a separate fuse box but the way my boat is laid out it will be tough to find a spot to put one that will be out of the way. I'm still very much undecided though.


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## LDUBS (Nov 1, 2018)

wmk0002 said:


> LDUBS said:
> 
> 
> > WMK -- do you have any concerns that the circuit breakers might not be as reliable as fuses? Just seems to me that there isn't much that can go wrong with a simple fuse. Not being critical -- just curious.
> ...




Thanks. Right now I have a few in-line fuses behind the dash. Hard for me to access when the boat is on the trailer much less rocking around on the water. I want to make them more accessible.


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## wmk0002 (Nov 1, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> wmk0002 said:
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> 
> > LDUBS said:
> ...



Here is a link to the Blue Seas ones I was talking about in case you are interested.

https://www.bluesea.com/products/category/14/26/Circuit_Breakers/Push_Button_Reset-Only


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## gnappi (Nov 2, 2018)

If breakers are tripped a lot, they may become more likely to trip but as far as overall reliably tripping when needed I expect them to be as reliable as fuses. To me accessibility is the major reason to deploy them. 

Here's the item number of a 5A panel breaker on Ebay 191814486004

There are also panel mount fuse holders (312204863930), but what if any internal corrosion resistance is uncertain. 

One morning coming in from offshore on a strong outgoing tide my boat went D-E-A-D in the water in an inlet at 02:00 am. on a fast outgoing tide. I was in danger of being swept out to sea. I used my anchor to hold fast until the tide stopped flowing, and hand cast the anchor several times to pull up to a seawall, and tie off. 

I took a cab home (wife was away on a business trip) got my tools (I never leave home without tools any more) and found that they (Sea Ray) used an inline fuse holder for the main line to the switch panel from the battery. The high carbon spring inside the fuse holder rotted away and the fuse was dangling in its socket not making a connection.

I'll never use a fuse holder in a boat again 

There's no guarantee that a breaker will fare any better, but with all the components being sold as "marine" parts I have a tad more confidence in them over spring loaded fuse holders unless the fuse holders had stainless springs and gold plated contacts.


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## DaleH (Nov 2, 2018)

gnappi said:


> In this sample, my preference despite the science of night vision experts on visual acuity under man made light *I would definitely NOT pick green*.


That's my direct/observed experience too! My new-to-me boat (non-tin, so I haven't shown it here) came equipped with green LEDS all over the place, even on underwater lights, and not only do I find them to be "too bright", there is a glow or halo around them that disturbed by vision to the area around the lamp/light.



wmk0002 said:


> Right now I'm trying to *find a switch panel with push button reset-able breakers.*


*Here's some food for thought ...* since rewiring many a boat; 5 or more of mine, a few of my brothers and a couple for some good friends ... *in all that time - spanning 20-years - we have yet to have a fuse blow on any circuit* where I re-wired it myself.

So whilst I know I'm a cheap 'Yankee' bazztard ... I just go with combo +/- fuse block assemblies placed into simple Tupperware-type closed containers, to make a DIY NMEA waterproof box. Keeps the switch panel simple (fuse panel behind the helm, protected) ... and makes the entire re-wire project much cheaper.

And the best part to me - that most of you overlook - is that you can purchase a fuse properly sized to the device or ampacity limit desired, whereas circuit breakers are not available at every value. In fact most stock OEM panels people are posting here are populated with 15 or 20-amp circuit breakers. And fuses are cheaper than breakers, even when I use the plastic ATC-type fuses, as I abandoned glass tubes years ago.


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## wmk0002 (Nov 2, 2018)

OK, I spent a lot of time thinking last night and calculating the costs of both building a panel like I want with quality switches and breakers and buying a nice one factory one. My conclusion is that if I choose to build one myself I will likely spend $150+ and if I buy one with every feature I wanted I will prob come out around $200. Those are both more than I want to spend (at least all at once) and I think I am going to pass on the Amazon/Ebay ones as well.

What it boils down to is that 6 switches should be enough for my basic boat. Circuit protection is crucial but really I plan to do a good job of fishing wire and making solid crimp/heat shrink connections so easily accessible blade style fuses will be fine over push breakers. Given that, I believe the 6 gang, fused, WeatherDeck switch panel Blue Seas sells will be good for me. It has red illuminated labels when the panel has power to it and shows green when the switch is on. If a fuse is blown, that switch label will not light up at all. The panels face is removable to access the fuses without having to unscrew the panels face. Looks like I can find one online for about $90 too. That will allow me to separately purchase a 12V outlet, USB outlet, and volt meter and install them plus the panel in the face of an appropriately sized electrical junction/project box. 

https://www.bluesea.com/products/4306/WeatherDeck_12V_DC_Waterproof_Fuse_Panel_-_Gray_6_Positions


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## wmk0002 (Nov 2, 2018)

DaleH said:


> gnappi said:
> 
> 
> > In this sample, my preference despite the science of night vision experts on visual acuity under man made light *I would definitely NOT pick green*.
> ...



Thanks Dale. Didn't see your reply until I submitted mine. I went along with your thoughts on the breakers. While nice to have, hard to justify the cost especially when they should really never be needed if done correctly.


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## ProduceMan (Nov 2, 2018)

Go with the Blue Seas panel. I am using the 4 gang on a 8 x 8 junction box from H.D. with room to spare for usb, lighter plug,etc. Also check out their positive & negative combo buss bar, fits well inside the junction box.


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## wmk0002 (Nov 5, 2018)

ProduceMan said:


> Go with the Blue Seas panel. I am using the 4 gang on a 8 x 8 junction box from H.D. with room to spare for usb, lighter plug,etc. Also check out their positive & negative combo buss bar, fits well inside the junction box.



Thanks, I ordered their 6 gang switch. Is the junction box you used 4" deep? Is that deeper than necessary or about right?


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## wmk0002 (Nov 5, 2018)

I bought a roll of 1/2", non-metallic, flexible, pvc conduit from Lowe's as well. It fits tightly down the crimp in the sides (behind the ribs). I plan to run it from the junction box just forward or the rear deck through the crimp and all the way under the front deck. I think I will cut out an access hole/square just big enough to get my hand in on top of the front deck. Not sure yet how/where I will route the primary power/ ground and primary wires for the bilge and anchor light back to the battery though. I'll update progress here later this week as well as in my build thread in my sig. Thanks for all of the help!


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## wmk0002 (Nov 9, 2018)

Switch panel came in. I'm very pleased with the "feel" of it. It is heavier than I expected and is solidly built. I bought an 8x8x4" outdoor junction box from Home Depot. Along with the box I got two "liquid tight" brand 1/2" 90 degree elbows which will attach that flexible conduit to the box with a water tight seal. I ordered a mini Blue Sea dual bus bar to mount inside the box which will distribute my primary positive and negative wires to the switch panel and the future 12V and usb outlets. Finally, I got a single, negative Blue Sea bus bar to mount at the bow so I can wire all bow electronics' negatives to it and only have one 10awg negative wire running back to the switch panel. 

The only thing I am missing that I would like to have now is a switch on my primary positive feed wire where it enters the junction box. Parasitic draw is in the mA range but I would prefer to switch it off if I want. I'm having trouble finding a simple toggle or contura switch rated for more than 15A though. If anyone knows of one rated for closer to 50A, please let me know.


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## DaleH (Nov 9, 2018)

50 Amp shown, ~$16, but you can use these Blue Sea breakers like a switch. Must be protected in a box though ... so why not just but a waterproof mini battery on/off switch? But $35.


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## wmk0002 (Nov 12, 2018)

Dale, what size is that mini battery switch?


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## DaleH (Nov 12, 2018)

wmk0002 said:


> Dale, what size is that mini battery switch?


About 3” square I’d say ...


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