# Evaluating Humminbird vs Garmin Fish Finder/GPS



## JT12 (Jan 13, 2018)

I'm currently evaluating the Garmin Striker 7SV vs the Humminbird Helix 7 G2. In Massachusetts there's so many small lakes that are not any Navionics / LakeMaster chips so I really want to create my own and only Garmin and Humminbird have this capability, so I'm told and have found to be true thus far. However, the big concern is on a web article done by Lowrance which claims that Garmin does not have an element in the skimmer which faces down due to patent infringements and thus only has the two side scan elements which leaves a gap that the elements in the transducer can't see directly beneath the boat (this is only in the Gamin units which have the ClearVu or side-scan). In order to overcome this gap it is claimed Garmin has to "stitch together" to two side-scan images to show you a "picture" of what is under the boat, only it's not the true picture because there is no downward facing element. 

Lowrance's parent company claims the patent rights and has sold licenses to this technology to all other manufacturers except Garmin. Has anyone else ever heard about this claim? 

Here's the article I read which has the you-tube video demonstration completed.

https://walleye.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/03.24.2017/10711/Lowrance.DownScan.Imaging.vs.Garmin.ClearVu/index.htm 

Much appreciated.


----------



## .Mike (Jan 13, 2018)

Garmin prevailed: https://newsroom.garmin.com/press-release/featured-releases/garmin-prevails-navico-patent-dispute

Whether or not they have changed the included transducer with their units will take some research. My guess is that the Striker Plus series is more likely to have the down-facing element.

BTW, my research indicated that Humminbirds only store 8 hours of AutoChart Live data. If you want to store more, they make you buy a "zero line" card-- a blank freaking map-- for $100. If you want to manipulate/merge data, you'll need to spend either $199 or $299 for their AutoChart / AutoChart Pro software, which includes the stupid "zero line" card.

Also BTW, Lowrance products w/ Insight mapping include the Insight Social mapping, where you scan a body of water, upload it, they process it, and add it to their social map, so you can add it back on to your card. The down side is that it shares your data, but you can pay $100/yr to keep it private. They also support Navionics SonarChart Live, which requires an active Navionics card.

It seems like all of these companies have directed their R&D towards our bank accounts. Must be that new WalletScan™ technology!


----------



## Scott F (Jan 13, 2018)

For many, (like me) the downscan imaging is not a very valuable tool. First, down and side imaging do a very poor job of showing fish. Second, in places like natural lakes and ponds, there is only rocks and weeds on the bottom which traditional sonar shows just fine along with better images of fish. 
The Garmin Striker series of depth finders have GPS but no mapping. You can see a track of where you have been but not where you are in relation to depth or shorelines. You must have the Striker Plus series to get the Quikdraw Contours map creation software. f you move up to the echoMap series, they include 17,000 pre loaded maps at no extra charge that I have found to be very accurate. If your lake or pond is not included, you can create your own high definition maps with QuickDraw also included free. With the Humminbird, map chips are not included and must be purchased separately. Garmin has had older models that are very similar to current models on sale for months at substantial savings. You don’t say what kind of boat you have, but I believe, with the Humminbird, you have to purchase a second transducer if you want to be able to see the depth if you are running at more than a few miles an hour.


----------



## JT12 (Jan 13, 2018)

I greatly appreciate the press release. Certainly need more research on the Garmin downward facing element. 

Bass Pro Shops staff told me that unless you buy Garmin with echomap, you won't see shorelines on the unit because it is not pre-loaded with aerial view and if using Quickdraw on the Striker series that the only thing it will show is what you record when motoring over so anything you don't see is blank white. With the Striker I don't think there is a way to get the chart off the unit, so there's no way to back it up in case the unit breaks or I want to upgrade or share the maps. 

I found same on Humminbirds 8hr limit unless you pay more. I'm ok with paying the $100 for the card because its one time and what I record is private, unlike Lowrance which wants $100/yr as you say. (Probably too long a time that I'd be willing to wait on Lowrance to have them update and return it for my own use.) Not sure yet if I'd have to also buy a software package to then be able to upload my personally made charts from the unit to be able to back them up. 

I have an older Elite 5 Lowrance fish finder which I'll keep so when travelling at speed I'll have that and will bow mount whatever I end up choosing. 

As far as the electronics actually showing fish, i really don't depend on my current electronics. But, I love seeing the bottom. I plan on using the side scan to see what structure is over there and throwing at that. 

Being able to back up the charts will be huge for me as I plan on having 30 years of fishing ahead of me!! I'll be calling to ask more specific technical questions to both Garmin and Humminbird.


----------



## .Mike (Jan 13, 2018)

The STRIKER _Plus_ 7sv does have wifi, and it looks like backing up your data is possible with the free Active Captain app. https://explore.garmin.com/en-US/active-captain/



> Quickdraw Community
> 
> Accessing the Garmin Quickdraw™ Contours Community has never been easier. Quickly and easily upload and download the latest Quickdraw Contours mapping content to your mobile device, and transfer it to your compatible chartplotter with zero button presses.



Not sure if you can backup your data without sharing it with the community, though.


----------



## PharmD (Jan 13, 2018)

The striker plus models don’t contain a base-map or an sd card slot. You can create contour lines for free using the unit. Then connect to it with garmins activecaptain app. This data can then be uploaded for free online and stores there for all to see and download. You would be able to redownload at later time or download someone else’s quickdraw maps prior to going to a new lake. 
Make you an account and check out the availability of shared maps for the lakes you fish to save you some time.

The echomap plus version is supposed to be getting a software update Q1 2018 to allow sonar and waypoints across multiple units.

If touchscreen and sharing transducers is not important to you the just get you a discounted echomap chirp or non-chirp 73 or 93. They will share waypoints with each other by using the garmin data cable. You should be able to get the plain echomap for the price of a striker plus if you look around a little. I would go with at least the chirp version as it has capability to use panoptix if you so choose to purchase the transducer in the future. Also should make it easier to sale to someone who wanted the head unit just to run panoptix beside their hunminbird/lowrance setup.

As far as the down imaging crystals in the transducers. The echomap, striker, echomap plus, and striker plus all come with the same transducer if its the same down or side imaging versions. The newer ones all have a CV transducer which means to make a downimage it blends the side images on your screen.

The original finders had dedicated down crystals. Then garmin was sued and they had to change them. I have had all the echomap 73 sv versions now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JT12 (Jan 17, 2018)

I spoke to Garmin yesterday. The rep read off the details of the transducer and confirmed the elements are side looking only and has no downward facing element and that it makes an image from the two side images to show what is under the boat. Not ideal.

I'll be giving Humminbird a call later, they were closed when I had time and tried to call yesterday.


----------



## Jim (Jan 17, 2018)

following this! 

Thanks!
Jim


----------



## .Mike (Jan 17, 2018)

JT12 said:


> I'll be giving Humminbird a call later, they were closed when I had time and tried to call yesterday.


I bet they say there is no dedicated down-imaging element. This is the transducer that is included: https://www.humminbird.com/Products/XNT-9-SI-180-T/

If you look through the rest of their transducers, those that have down imaging specifically list it: https://www.humminbird.com/Freshwater/Product-Category/Accessories/Transducers/


----------



## LDUBS (Jan 17, 2018)

I have an older Helix 7 DI GPS Combo. It has a Navionics+ card installed. For me lake coverage is real good. Mine uses the XNT 9 DI T TM transducer, which I believe would include a down imaging element. Like _Scott F_ I very seldom use down imaging. I probably would not have thought this before but I find that I use the chart plotter and bottom contours just as much as I do the sonar (fish finder). 

Kind of a shame Navionics doesn't have good coverage of your area. The Navionics site has a place to request lakes, but I have no idea how responsive they are. I guess it wouldn't hurt to send them that feedback. I wish I could help you more with creating sonar contours but it is something I've not needed to do.


----------



## PharmD (Jan 21, 2018)

JT12 said:


> I spoke to Garmin yesterday. The rep read off the details of the transducer and confirmed the elements are side looking only and has no downward facing element and that it makes an image from the two side images to show what is under the boat. Not ideal.
> 
> I'll be giving Humminbird a call later, they were closed when I had time and tried to call yesterday.



Navico, the worlds largest manufacturer of marine electronics and parent company to the Lowrance[emoji768], Simrad[emoji768], B&G[emoji768] and GoFree[emoji768] brands is the only SV version with dedicated down-view crystals due to them owning the patent I believe. I don’t believe even all of Navicos(lowrance) transducers use dedicated down-view crystals either. Navico had been suing anyone else doing dedicated down-view crystals for patent infringement. It has something to do with the angle of the crystals if i remember correctly.

You can still purchase the GT52Hw-Tm transducers from other countries....might search the above on an auction site that Im not sure if I can mention on the forum.

Then just buy the garmin head unit you want. It will end up costing you about $100 more than purchasing the package deal.

Or buy the package and the GT52HW-Tm and sell the CV52HW-TM. If you can sell it locally or on here you can probably come out about the same on the price as the package.

I have just kept my original transducer so I still have dedicated crystals and I didn’t have to fish the transducer wire again.

Good luck deciding!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## JT12 (Feb 9, 2018)

I did finally speak to Humminbird. The HELIX SI models with downscan have both a downward facing and side facing elements. Several weeks ago I did read that Humminbird paid Navico for the downscan patent rights. I tried to find the article to post a link but couldn't find it, sorry. Back in 2010 Humminbird filed a suit against Navico for infringement on its Side Imaging patent. I guess at the end of the day the biggest ones on the playground realize its better to get along than duke it out (which means only the attorneys win). 

Anywho... I decided to see what I could scrounge up so I redeemed all rewards points from all credit cards, etc., pulled my BPS gift cards together from my birthday and xmas presents and was pretty damn happy to have over $800 in BPS gift cards to put towards a fish finder!! I figure since I was planning on spending $500 I may as well still spend the $500, add BPS cards on top, and buy the best one I can get, take care of it and have it last. 

Humminbird has won through all my research and I'll be buying the Humminbird Helix 9 Mega SI G2N GPS Fishfinder Chartplotter. The MEGA imaging is blowing minds everywhere, even all the pros rant and rave about it. Now, I'll just have to learn how to read the silly thing! 

Season starts in a few weeks here. Tight lines all!!!


----------



## JT12 (Jun 28, 2018)

Update. about a week ago I heard Garmin bought Navionics. Lawsuit over. If it is true then expensing a matter of time before Garmin is back to having downward facing elements.


----------

