# Hull dents



## BigTerp (Feb 16, 2017)

I have a dent or two in my Tracker 1648 hull bottom that I'm pretty sure is effecting my performance. Loosing about 5 mph at WOT. Previously with my '94 Johnson 50/35 I was getting upper 20's and now I'm in the low 20's. Only other thing I can think of is water logged foam, but I replaced the foam in late 2013 with the blue stuff from Lowes. So I doubt that is the issue. Only way for me to find out is to pull my floor, which is doable but would involve a lot of work. I want to clean up the dents, particular a bigger one that is in the center chine about 16-18" from the stern. I'm guessing that is the main culprit for my performance drop. Thinking of ways to get it smoothed back out without trying to beat the dent itself out, which I think will only cause more issues. I'm thinking of using JB water weld to pack the dent and then sand it all down as smooth as possible once it cures. Not sure how well it would hold up though. Have also considered filling the dent by throwing down some welds and then grinding it smooth. But my hull is pretty thin, probably .080 or less and welding it is a major PITA!! Have also looked at the aluminum flux rods to fill in the dents. What do you guys think? Would any of those options help with my issue?


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## Johnny (Feb 16, 2017)

Terp - can you post some photos of your concerns ?


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Feb 16, 2017)

5 mph from a dent? I'm suspicious of that theory. Do you think it's causing aeration and sending dirty water to the pump? Interested to see what you come up with as a learning experience for myself.


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## BigTerp (Feb 16, 2017)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> Do you think it's causing aeration and sending dirty water to the pump?



Not sure if that's the case or not. Would think I would be getting some cavitation if so, which I do not experience. I think the bottom of my hull just isn't smooth like it used to be and is causing excessive drag while on plane. I'll get some pictures when I have the chance of my hull bottom. The dent in the center chine is fairly significant. There are a few others here and there that may or may not be causing some drag as well. I can't imagine it's water logged foam because with 3 guys and hunting gear I was getting better top end then I am now without all that weight. Nothing else has changed with my setup either. Motor runs great and the impeller is properly shimmed and in good shape along with my liner. My boat does run better with a passenger in the back and I fished by myself 90% of the time last year. So I may be over reacting a bit, but it definitely doesn't have the performance it use to.


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Feb 16, 2017)

I just have a feeling there has to be something else going on. I'd like to see the pics. Another thing to check is to make sure the gate is operating properly. Check it out of the water and make sure you cannot manually move the gate from open/forward to closed/neutral and that the gate is opening all the way when in forward.


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## Crazyboat (Feb 16, 2017)

For what it's worth, I had a bunch of barni's on the bottom of a boat a couple of years ago, lost 5 MPH on the top end, I can't see how a couple of dents will do the same to you. bunch = 6 sq ft on an 18' hull.


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## Lil' Blue Rude (Feb 16, 2017)

Depend on how bad the dent is, might put a straight edge on the bottom of the boat to see how much hook you have. When eyeballing the bottom of a boat you normally don't notice hook as much as a big dent but they both hurt top end especially on a 40/28. Post some pics.
Only other thin I could think of you might check you motor height, I've seen the bolts back of just enough to let the motor slip down and that will slow you down.


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## BigTerp (Feb 16, 2017)

Motor height is good. It's on a static transom riser and can't go down any further. There might be a little hook right at the transom, but it's only in one spot and maybe 10" worth of the transom length. The rest seems nice and straight.

Here are some pictures of the dent. It's on the middle chine about 14-16" in front of the transom and jet foot. The dent itself is about 6" long and the width of the chine. Best pictures I could get for now.


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## mphelle (Feb 16, 2017)

Sounds like you are plowing when you are alone in the boat. Looking back at your build, you have quite a bit of weight up front including yourself with stick steer. PTT would be ideal but you could try raising the motor with the tilt pin one hole when fishing alone.


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## BigTerp (Feb 17, 2017)

mphelle said:


> Sounds like you are plowing when you are alone in the boat. Looking back at your build, you have quite a bit of weight up front including yourself with stick steer. PTT would be ideal but you could try raising the motor with the tilt pin one hole when fishing alone.



Thanks. And yeah, it definitely plows when alone in the boat. But with a passenger, it still isn't what it used to be. I tried adding weight to the back while fishing alone, but it was more trouble then it was worth. I also tried raising the motor up one notch, but nothing but cavitation. I'm OK with the plowing with just me in the boat, but would like to get back the performance I had before with a second person in the boat. Just trying to figure out if there is anything I can do. If not, it'll be fine and I can live with it. It took me a few rock hits, 2 holes and a destroyed foot before I learned that my boat isn't a 4x4 for the river. Wish I'd have been a little more careful in the beginning and my hull would be in much better shape. Oh well, all a part of jet boating.


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## handyandy (Feb 17, 2017)

Sounds like you need a thicker hull. I've had some riveted boats and I would never go back just to thin especially for a jet boat you plan on running shallow where some hits are inevitable. You could try and push the dents out somewhat, I imagine the hook is what doing the most depending on bad it is.


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## mphelle (Feb 17, 2017)

Do you have a tach? If not, order one of those cheap tiny tach copies off of ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGITAL-TACH-SIMILAR-TO-TINY-TACH-/311756964694?hash=item489629c356:g:CF0AAOSwa~BYSvyG&vxp=mtr. A friend of mine had the same motor and it spun your impeller at 5300rpm. I read that you had a dirty carb issue and it doesn't take long for a lean cylinder to smear a little aluminum across the rings.


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## BigTerp (Feb 17, 2017)

handyandy said:


> Sounds like you need a thicker hull. I've had some riveted boats and I would never go back just to thin especially for a jet boat you plan on running shallow where some hits are inevitable. You could try and push the dents out somewhat, I imagine the hook is what doing the most depending on bad it is.



A more stout hull would definitely be nice. Planning to have a good one built with UHMW or K5 as my next boat. Will probably be a little while before that happens though. Any feasible fix for the hook?


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## BigTerp (Feb 17, 2017)

mphelle said:


> Do you have a tach? If not, order one of those cheap tiny tach copies off of ebay https://www.ebay.com/itm/DIGITAL-TACH-SIMILAR-TO-TINY-TACH-/311756964694?hash=item489629c356:g:CF0AAOSwa~BYSvyG&vxp=mtr. A friend of mine had the same motor and it spun your impeller at 5300rpm. I read that you had a dirty carb issue and it doesn't take long for a lean cylinder to smear a little aluminum across the rings.



Yes. And at WOT mine runs about 5300-5400. Motor is in good shape.


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## handyandy (Feb 20, 2017)

Best I could think of would be to try and carefully push the dents out. That thin aluminum it can be hard to do that without creating a crack at a crease.


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## JoshKeller (Feb 21, 2017)

shim and sharpen the impeller lately?


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## BigTerp (Feb 22, 2017)

JoshKeller said:


> shim and sharpen the impeller lately?



Impeller still looks good and I checked the clearance late last year. Will pull the foot and check it again and clean up the impeller though before I take it back out. Good idea.

What do you think about trying to beat out the little hook I have? The more I think about it, I think that's what is causing some top end loss. It's right at the transom in front of the jet foot, probably from hitting rocks. It's not terrible and not the entire length of the transom, maybe 12" or so. Just don't want to beat out the hook and end up weakening the hull in that spot.

If all else fails I'll just live with it. Not a deal breaker by any means. It's what I get for having such a thin hull on a rocky river. Or maybe I'll buy your 75/50 and really beat the crap out of my hull :lol:


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## CedarRiverScooter (Feb 22, 2017)

I'd fill the dents with Bondo & see if it makes a difference. Bondo is cheap & can be sanded away if you want a more permanent fix later.


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## BigTerp (Feb 22, 2017)

CedarRiverScooter said:


> I'd fill the dents with Bondo & see if it makes a difference. Bondo is cheap & can be sanded away if you want a more permanent fix later.



How good will that bond with aluminum compared to something like JB waterweld?


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Feb 22, 2017)

I used this on my boat to patch a hole in the side wall. I'm no body work expert and it still came out looking nice. Little touch up paint and you can even tell it's there. I know there are other factors to consider like your boat being riveted/thin and flexing a lot. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0082LFAI6/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Johnny (Feb 22, 2017)

with any patch filler - aggressive tooth is the key for a successful patch.
remove all paint from the area - hand-sand with *40 grit* paper in a criss-cross 
pattern to get as much rough surface as possible to grip and hold the filler material.
if you sand smooth with the orbital sander, your chances of a good bond is decreased.
sand the filler smooth and feather the edges _after_ the filler has _fully_ cured.
then, proceed with the appropriate cleaning, primer and paint.


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## dhoganjr (Feb 22, 2017)

I beat as many of the dents out that I could from the rock I hit last summer and the years of river abuse. Had a hook at the transom I straightened. What I couldn't fix I used metal 2 metal filler on and then painted with Wetlander. 

It came out looking almost like a new bottom.

https://www.eastwood.com/metal-to-metal-filler-quart-with-hardner.html?fee=7&fep=76&SRCCODE=PLA00020&product_id=10021ZP&adpos=1o1&creative=83580268380&device=m&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKEAiAirXFBRCQyvL279Tnx1ESJAB-G-QvIgx2CCdE0pjEd1rVMRv93wdADKhD7NfgJI9BvYDGfhoC4TDw_wcB


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## JoshKeller (Feb 22, 2017)

only problem is, this tracker is .063 aluminum. Im not sure id want to touch it for fear of cracking/creasing/etc. and I dont see 5 mph from that damage. are you sure that the motor isnt just getting broken in and not as tight as when you first rebuilt it?

are you turning the same rpm as before?

if you buy my 75, ill knock 500 off it to keep it in the local family


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## BigTerp (Feb 23, 2017)

JoshKeller said:


> *only problem is, this tracker is .063 aluminum. Im not sure id want to touch it for fear of cracking/creasing/etc.* and I dont see 5 mph from that damage. are you sure that the motor isnt just getting broken in and not as tight as when you first rebuilt it?
> 
> are you turning the same rpm as before?
> 
> if you buy my 75, ill knock 500 off it to keep it in the local family



This is what I'm afraid of as well. 

Not sure on the motor being broken in and loosening up a bit. Certainly could be. RPM's are the same as before. When it was first rebuilt I was getting 26 up river by myself and no gear. Now by myself and minimal fishing gear up river I'm about 20-21. I'll tear the foot off and check the impeller and clearance before I take it back out. The hook on the transom is the only other thing I can think of that would be causing my issue.

Thanks, but I'm good on the motor for now.


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## openseat (Feb 23, 2017)

I have a few dents that size on a 1752, including one on the outside edge that throws a little extra spray on plane. I only lost maybe couple mph at most off the original top end of 26 mph.

I would try the filler material first. Even if it doesn't last, it would tell you if you'll get the 5 mph back that way,
before you risk re-forming the aluminum.

Good luck.


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## BigTerp (Feb 23, 2017)

Here is my liner and impeller. Dressed up the impeller and the liner looks like normal wear to me. No big gouges or anything at all. The impeller is shimmed nice and tight as well, .015 all the way around.

Any good source for the impeller nut keeper? Broke one of the ears off of mine getting the impeller off. I have a spare, but it used and I'd like to get a new one to put back on. Marineengine.com has them for $12 a piece. Wasn't sure if they were cheaper anywhere else?


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Feb 23, 2017)

And you're sure the gate is operating fine?


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## LarryMc (Feb 24, 2017)

> Any good source for the impeller nut keeper? Broke one of the ears off of mine getting the impeller off. I have a spare, but it used and I'd like to get a new one to put back on. Marineengine.com has them for $12 a piece. Wasn't sure if they were cheaper anywhere else?



You can get them from OBJ for about $2, but I don't know how much the shipping would cost. Might try eBay.


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## BigTerp (Feb 24, 2017)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> And you're sure the gate is operating fine?



Yes. I put my throttle all the way open and then tried to pull the gate back with my hand. Nice and snug, can't get it to move back at all. Anything else I should check with that?


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## BigTerp (Feb 24, 2017)

LarryMc said:


> You can get them from OBJ for about $2, but I don't know how much the shipping would cost. Might try eBay.



Thanks, I'll check it out.


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## JoshKeller (Feb 24, 2017)

didnt you relocated batteries from when you first bought it?

and i have a spare keeper washer. its double the thickness of the stock ones, so they wont break. 





BigTerp said:


> JoshKeller said:
> 
> 
> > *only problem is, this tracker is .063 aluminum. Im not sure id want to touch it for fear of cracking/creasing/etc.* and I dont see 5 mph from that damage. are you sure that the motor isnt just getting broken in and not as tight as when you first rebuilt it?
> ...


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Feb 24, 2017)

I had a stick wedge in my nozzle once. Guessing you already checked for something like that though.


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## BigTerp (Feb 24, 2017)

JoshKeller said:


> didnt you relocated batteries from when you first bought it?
> 
> and i have a spare keeper washer. its double the thickness of the stock ones, so they wont break.



No, I haven't changed anything since I first set it up. 

I'm thinking it's the bottom condition and the little hook I have near the transom. The bottom certainly isn't as good as it was from day one. 

I guess my foam could be waterlogged. I put in the blue sheets from Lowes when I rebuilt the boat 3-1/2 years ago. I do fill it up with water maybe twice a year to check for leaks. Not sure if that's enough for that foam to get waterlogged or not? I would think not. Other than that, it lives under a cover and stays dry.

Thanks on the washer. I went ahead and ordered that along with a few other spare parts to keep on hand from OBJ this morning. 

We'll see how cleaning up the impeller does. I tried to polish it as well, but it's already in pretty good looking shape. I'm going to have it out soon with a buddy in the back to see how it does.


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## BigTerp (Feb 24, 2017)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> I had a stick wedge in my nozzle once. Guessing you already checked for something like that though.



I looked pretty good last night and the pump looks good. I'll have to double check though. Thanks.


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## BigTerp (Feb 24, 2017)

What do you guys think of my liner condition?

Also, I sharpened my 3 blade stainless impeller from the top, not the bottom like OBJ suggests. Lil Blue Rude does it this way on 3 blade impellers (as well as others) and says they perform better. I have one blade that is needing more filing then the rest but don't want to take off too much material. How much filing is too much? Also, how "perfect" do the beveled edges need to be? Should I be trying to get them just like the OBJ diagram shows, or is close enough good? How do you guys polish your stainless impellers?


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## CedarRiverScooter (Feb 24, 2017)

I'm not sure about OB jet pumps, but on my PWC pump, the clearance between impeller & pump hsg is critical. Once past wear limit, thrust goes way down.


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## JoshKeller (Feb 25, 2017)

I take mine as seriously as hitting it with the grinder, then removing the burr on the opposite side. Takes me longer to remove the boot than sharpen the impeller


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## JL8Jeff (Feb 26, 2017)

Do you have the stock reeds or aftermarket ones in the motor?


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## BigTerp (Feb 26, 2017)

JL8Jeff said:


> Do you have the stock reeds or aftermarket ones in the motor?



Aftermarket. Chris Carson reeds.


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## JL8Jeff (Feb 26, 2017)

BigTerp said:


> JL8Jeff said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have the stock reeds or aftermarket ones in the motor?
> ...



Do you think they could have weakened or something and are causing a slight loss of power? Just a thought.


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## BigTerp (Feb 27, 2017)

JL8Jeff said:


> BigTerp said:
> 
> 
> > JL8Jeff said:
> ...



I've thought about this as well, but haven't taken them out to see. I'll have the boat out this weekend so we'll see how it runs after cleaning up the impeller and shimming it down one shim (if I can).


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## BigTerp (Feb 28, 2017)

Got my impeller dressed up and to my surprise was able to shim it down one shim without it rubbing. The .015" feeler gauge was pretty tight in spots, but still fit the whole way around. There are still some spots that are .025" or greater, but afraid if I go down another shim it will rub. Taking it out Saturday to see if any of this made some improvements.










[/quote]


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## JoshKeller (Mar 2, 2017)

my ghetto way of checking clearance... pull out the spark plugs. shim the impeller. set the liner up. put 2 bolts in. have someone turn the flywheel by hand. shim it down as much as i can without rubbing.


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## BigTerp (Mar 3, 2017)

JoshKeller said:


> my ghetto way of checking clearance... pull out the spark plugs. shim the impeller. set the liner up. put 2 bolts in. have someone turn the flywheel by hand. shim it down as much as i can without rubbing.



Will do it like this the next time I have a helper. Honestly didn't feel like tearing it all apart again the other night to try one more shim on top. Pure laziness.


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## LarryMc (Mar 3, 2017)

Since OBJ recommends a clearance of .030" with an aluminum impeller and you say the .015" gauge is tight in spots, I'd say you need to run it before trying to add another shim on top. If I'm running a liner with some noticeable wear on it, I like to paint the inside of the liner with some black spray paint after adding shims on top. Makes it easier to tell if the impeller is rubbing.

FWIW, I don't think there is anything to gain by running an impeller with less than .020". It usually just results in more wear on the liner and impeller with little or no gain in performance.


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## JoshKeller (Mar 3, 2017)

That looks like a stainless impeller to me.


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## LarryMc (Mar 3, 2017)

JoshKeller said:


> That looks like a stainless impeller to me.



It could be, but all the stainless impellers I have seen have square keys. That's why I thought this one was aluminum.


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## BigTerp (Mar 6, 2017)

Yeah, it's stainless.

Not much gained by shimming down and cleaning up the impeller. Hole shot was slightly better. Top end about the same. 19-20 up river and 23-24 down river. I need to get a passenger in the boat to see how it does. With just me it plows at the bow. My boat is definitely set up to run best with a second person in the rear seat.


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