# Light rail



## Xpress_442 (Oct 5, 2012)

Hey guys I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a removable rail idea for bowfishing lights. Any ideas? Post pics if you can. I'll try to get a pic of the bow of my tin posted a little later.
Ps I have aluminum pipe but minimal access to tools (benders etc)


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 5, 2012)

Not the best pics but they're all I have at the moment


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## bigwave (Oct 5, 2012)

Here is an idea for ya, I say put some recessed rod holders on the bow. You could then have someone fab you up your light rail and use the same diameter pipe so that they fit right in the rod holders.....best of both worlds, you light rail would be removable and you will always have a couple of rod holders up front.


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## Bailey Boat (Oct 5, 2012)

If you don't want to go the rod holder route consider nutserts with a flange attached to the light rails. That's how I have the rod/gun racks in my little boat...... 8 screws out, remove rod racks, 8 screws in and the gun racks are installed.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 5, 2012)

Great ideas I never thought of that I was think of gettin rod holders welded onto the front but didn't think I would like the way it would look but if I could figure out a way to get flush mount ones put in that would work perfect


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## PSG-1 (Oct 5, 2012)

Here's a link to the thread where I have some pictures of my removable light rail:

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=22675&p=231163&hilit=gigging+light+rail#p231163



And a little video of the gigging lights in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOre4nmHqk8


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## bigwave (Oct 6, 2012)

I was talking about the flush mount type of rod holders.........they come in many different styles such as vertical, 45degree, 15degree etc.....You would have to install them a little back from the bow since they usually need 12 inches or so below the deck.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 6, 2012)

The rod holders are also a good way of doing it, but as you said, you have to inset them into the deck. My design only requires one 1/4" hole on each gunwale, for the light bar to mount to. (with some, like war eagle, triton, etc, you can buy rail adapters, instead of having to drill a hole in the gunwale) And, with the folding design like my light bar, it's easy to collapse it to a compact size, for easy storage.


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## bigwave (Oct 6, 2012)

I like your set up too PSG, You know I sell the taco light like you have on your boat, I have one that is much brighter than the one you have....it has 6 led's, easily twice as bright and draws very little from your battery. I wish they would allow bow fishing here......looks like it would be a blast to me. Is it time for a new ride yet.......? I went through your build again and can really appreciate what you do.....cant wait to see what you do next.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 6, 2012)

bigwave said:


> I like your set up too PSG, You know I sell the taco light like you have on your boat, I have one that is much brighter than the one you have....it has 6 led's, easily twice as bright and draws very little from your battery.




Now THAT would be the kind of LED system I'd like to have. As I said, I tried that one, and it was a disappointment, it cast off a pale blue color, really hard to see anything with that, so I went back to incandescents. I'd love to be able to run LED's to minimize power draw, but only if they put out the right wavelength of light.





> I wish they would allow bow fishing here......looks like it would be a blast to me.



It sure is. I enjoy gigging, but there's really not much challenge in just sticking a fish with a pole spear. It's MUCH more challenging with a bow, or a crossbow. Kinda like combining hunting and fishing. I tried going high-tech, using laser pointers, etc, for aiming, but I have found that in the dark, when you only have a split second to take a shot at a moving fish, nothing beats hand-eye coordination.




> Is it time for a new ride yet.......? I went through your build again and can really appreciate what you do.....cant wait to see what you do next.




It's definitely time to build another boat......the equipment and the designer(s) are willing and ready, but the funds just ain't there yet. Hopefully, by next spring, we can start pooling some money together, and see about building a supercharged version, and maybe even try to market and sell this one. 

One of the reasons we had not yet tried to move forward with building boats, was the factor of reliability, which was an issue with the 2 stroke engine, but has been pretty much dealt with by using the 4 stroke. Also, the factor of being able to build a boat that met ABYC standards, and was actually an insurable vessel. Having gone through the process this past summer of having my jetboat surveyed, and approved for insurance, is a BIG step in that direction, as the survey, and the willingness of the underwriter to cover my boat proves that we CAN in fact build boats that meet standards, and are insurable. 

Warranty might be another issue, though, especially considering that we are using a manufacturer's engine in a vessel not generally used with their engine.

I would love to get to a point where we have about 2 or 3 boats in production at any given time, on a steady basis. And who knows, maybe even a TV show. We're every bit as dysfunctional and funny as American Chopper, or any of the other shows that classify as entertainment...and I've already been on TV, along with the jetboat, so, who knows. Anything is possible.


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## novaman (Oct 6, 2012)

You might try looking for railings from an old pontoon that's either being scrapped,( or one that should be). They will usually have a flange on the bottom to fasten thru, by putting it against the inside of the gunwale and bolting thru it. rather than screwing thru the deck. If You know someone with a "walker" :wink: , see if You can borrow it, of course wait till they go to bed, JUST JOKIN'.. Can You picture 2 old walkers on the bow side by side, w/a pr. of halogen lamps on the handle bars? [-X Sounds like a SNL skit for geriatric misfits, ( of which ,I'll be one someday, not toooo far off). :roflmao:. I better quit before I get hate mail. Just thinking of where You could get prebent tubing for cheap. Any way good luck and let us SEE what You come up with.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 6, 2012)

I've seen boats set up for gigging, that had a waist-high railing around the bow, to keep people from falling overboard. Kinda looked like a giant walker on the bow...LOL 

I could have used that about 5 years ago in November, when I fell overboard, and it was about 25 degrees outside! I scrambled back in the boat so quick, the guy that was out there with me, didn't even realize what had happened. The only part of my body that got wet was my hands, and my feet, thanks to my tight-fitting foul weather gear, and the fact that I had fallen out in only 2 feet of water. Fortunately, I was only about 1/4 mile from home. So, needless to say, gigging was over for that evening. It was the one and only time I've fallen overboard in 30 years of boating, and hopefully, the last.


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## JMichael (Oct 6, 2012)

PSG-1 said:


> Here's a link to the thread where I have some pictures of my removable light rail:
> 
> https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=22675&p=231163&hilit=gigging+light+rail#p231163
> 
> ...



There seems to be a bit of a problem with your video.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 6, 2012)

Hmmm, that's odd. I clicked the link, and it worked for me. :?:


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## JMichael (Oct 7, 2012)

That is very strange then. When I click it, I get the youtube video screen with this text in it. 

*This video contains content from SME and EMI Music Publishing, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
Sorry about that.
*
And last time I checked, I'm in the same country as you. :lol: Mabye you see it normally because you're the owner. Need to find out what results someone else is getting with it.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 7, 2012)

Dang copyright disputes with youtube again. I've had videos that were blocked, then later unblocked, and vice-versa. I was wondering why that video hadn't had any views in a while. Reckon I might as well take it down, since no one can watch it.

I left a nasty comment for youtube on that video, all in caps, in case anyone from youtube reads it, they'll know where I stand on the issue. LOL, trust me, it wasn't nice.

I guess if I do any more videos with music, I need to just post them to Vimeo, instead of you-boob.



Here is the video on vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/50931217


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 7, 2012)

Hey PSG how'd u build that set up


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## PSG-1 (Oct 7, 2012)

Xpress_442 said:


> Hey PSG how'd u build that set up



It's made from 4 pieces of 1/4" X 1" aluminum flat bar. 2 shorter pieces for the gunwale attachments, with a pivot at one end and an attachment hole at the other end.... and then 2 long pieces with the pivot point in the center, for the bow. 

To build it, you measure from the center of your bow, along that angle, to where it meets the gunwale. Cut 2 pieces this long. Then, measure back from the corner of each piece, to a location on your gunwale, where you can put a bolt, a rail mount, etc. This is how long to cut the side pieces.

Since the 2 pieces that meet in the middle will be offset, you may want to flush bolt a couple of pieces of flat bar to the underside of the higher piece, so it rests neatly on the gunwale without flopping. Where you attach your side pieces, you will also overlap. So, 3 bolts will give you the folding mechanism, then you just need 2 more bolts to attach to the boat.

The beauty of this design is that it is adjustable, so it will fit the bow profile of quite a few different boats. I've used it on my 16 foot triton, my 16 foot dura craft, and on my girlfriend's 14 foot war eagle. On some boats, it's as simple as drilling a hole in each gunwale, and on others, a rail adapter can be used to attach the light bar.

And, as mentioned, the other nice thing is that it folds up nice and compact, it will fit inside a tool box, with plenty of room to spare. I know that because I have a tool box on my floating dock, as a dock locker, and I have stored the light bar in there.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 7, 2012)

Whenever you get a chance can u post a few close ups of the rail mounts, hardware etc please? Thanks for all the help guys hopefully I'll b able to get something built pretty soon right now I'm just clamping the lights to the bow handles and I'm not likin it very much


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## PSG-1 (Oct 7, 2012)

Here's a couple of it installed on the jetboat (these were previously posted in another thread, but I'll use them to illustrate what I'm talking about)




You can see the 2 long pieces that come together in the center of the bow, and the 2 short pieces that join them, at the corners of the gunwale.






Removed, and folded up:








You can also see in these photos, that the attachment bolt of the light bracket, is the same bolt used to hold the pivoting sections together, minimizing the amount of hardware.



I can get some more detailed shots if you need them. Let me know.




And here's one of the adapter I use for my dura craft.




Not the prettiest mount in the world, in fact, they are a little sh!++y looking. But they do serve their purpose. I may re-do them one day. It may be that I don't even need these blocks, I might be able to find a way to bolt directly to the holes drilled in the gunwales.

I also have a set of adapters that fit the rail of my Triton, and they also fit the rail of the 14 foot War Eagle my girlfriend used to own. I'll get some pictures of those mounts tomorrow, when I have some light.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 9, 2012)

Also anyone have any clamp ideas I'm trying to avoid drilling any more holes in the boat


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## PSG-1 (Oct 9, 2012)

Xpress_442 said:


> Also anyone have any clamp ideas I'm trying to avoid drilling any more holes in the boat




What kind of boat is it? If it's a war eagle or a triton, you can buy the slider clamps that will fit the inside track. Other manufacturers may have something similar.

If there is not an available track, you can always make a clamping mechanism out of some channel, sized to fit the gunwale's drip rail... then drill a hole in your piece of channel, weld a nut over the hole, and use a T-handle clamp. 

I'll update this with some pics in a little bit to show what I'm talking about.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 9, 2012)

It's an Xpress so it doesn't have a track. I have aluminum flat bar and pipe. I may be able to fashion something out of it


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## PSG-1 (Oct 9, 2012)

OK, here's a few photos I took this afternoon, at the dock:




This is my Triton 1650SC. Like I said before, the light bar design allow it to fit more than one boat.







Note that the pivot point of the light rail, is also the mount point for the light bracket. One bolt is all you need.





OK, this one shows what I was talking about when I said to put a spacer block under the high side of the pivot. You can see that small tab of 1/4" flat bar, welded to the underside. If you don't have a welder, you could always D&T (drill and tap) from the underside, and use a short, countersunk screw, so nothing protruded from either side.


But you can see how that little block levels it out.






These brackets were made from an extrusion that the manufacturer uses to mount livewells, consoles, etc, to the rail system of the Triton. it also turns out that War Eagle uses the same inside track rail system, so, as I said before, these extrusions also fit my girl's war eagle...she has since parted with it.

As for the source to buy the extrusion.... I got a short length of it from the local boat dealer, and cut it into a few shorter pieces to make these brackets, as well as a couple of rod holder brackets.



Not sure where you could find this stuff. Maybe someone here knows?

Anyhow, you can see how the backside of the extrusion has a notch cut in it, and the mounting screw is in fact a regular flat head 1/4 x 20 SS screw with flats ground on it, then it uses a clamping knob.



And, as I told you before.....



....the lightbar fits neatly inside the toolbox I use as a dock storage locker.



OK, so you say it's not a war eagle or a triton. Allright, how about this?




WTF is that, you ask? A rodholder bracket for my Duracraft. It fits my 16 footer, and it also fit my 14 footer, which is what I originally designed it for. But I didn't take the photo to show you the rodholder.




See how there's a channel, and a T-shaped clamping knob made from aluminum round stock? This is what I was talking about, as far as a clamping mechanism.








As the clamp is tightened, the end goes into the gutter of the channel along the gunwale, which locks it down.

Again, we're talking about securing a light bar, not a ski pole, not a whole lot of stress being put on it.... so, a simple clamping mechanism like what's shown, should be adequate. 

Hope this helps!


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks alot I got ahold of a piece of a small piece of aluminum unistrut that I should be able to fashion into a gunnel clamp. I'll post pics when I get it finished. 
As for the light rail I think I'm goin to go with 1/4" flat bar with counter sunk bolts on the underside to mount the lights and since my boat is a square nose i will only have 2 pivot points to deal with (considering just welding the 2 joints) then where the two ends stop towards the rear of the front deck I will weld the unistrut to the flat bar and use that as a clamp (if I can make the unistrut work) and if not I will fashion a clamp out of scraps. Thanks for all the help guys this site is awesome!


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 9, 2012)

By the way these are the lights I use 

Sadly they're not made in the U.S. but they work great regardless. They are 20w LEDs I got off of eBay for around 40 a piece. I use the 12v ones but the 120v ones are even cheaper


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## PSG-1 (Oct 10, 2012)

Xpress_442 said:


> Thanks alot I got ahold of a piece of a small piece of aluminum unistrut that I should be able to fashion into a gunnel clamp. I'll post pics when I get it finished.
> As for the light rail I think I'm goin to go with 1/4" flat bar with counter sunk bolts on the underside to mount the lights and since my boat is a square nose i will only have 2 pivot points to deal with (considering just welding the 2 joints)



Although I'm a welder and I often cuss bolts and fasteners, saying that stuff puts me out of a job.....but, why weld it, when you can bolt at those 2 points, allowing it to pivot and fold for compact storage? :wink: 







> then where the two ends stop towards the rear of the front deck I will weld the unistrut to the flat bar and use that as a clamp (if I can make the unistrut work) and if not I will fashion a clamp out of scraps. Thanks for all the help guys this site is awesome!



Not sure what 'unistrut' is, but if it will fit over your gunwale's drip rail, and you can rig it with a clamping mechanism, it should work just fine. Good luck with it!


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## PSG-1 (Oct 10, 2012)

Xpress_442 said:


> By the way these are the lights I use
> Sadly they're not made in the U.S. but they work great regardless. They are 20w LEDs I got off of eBay for around 40 a piece. I use the 12v ones but the 120v ones are even cheaper



I hope they're brighter than the LED I tried on my light rail, that's all I'm sayin'. As mentioned, I tried a single LED in the center of my light rail...I was sorely disappointed in the amount, and wavelength, of light emitted, especially considering I paid about 70 dollars for that bastard.

As for 12V or 120V....in my case, I'd have to run 12V, we have a law that pertains to this specific area of the SC coast that says no generators can be used to run lights for gigging. I actually helped write this law, because we had commercial giggers coming into the inlet, raping the resources. On any given night, you would see 10-15 boats out there that looked like floating football stadiums, putting off not only light pollution, but noise pollution as well, with noisy generators...and as mentioned, raping the resources, taking way more than the legal limit. 

After these rapers would hit the creek, the hook-and-line flounder fisherman wouldn't catch anything for a few weeks, until more fish moved in here. Not only did we get rid of the generators, but we also got the possession limit of flounder cut in half, for this specific area of the SC coast. Other areas of the coast, the limit is still 20 flounder per person, But here, it's 10, and it should be, because this is a small body of water, basically just a marsh, not connected to a river like an estuary.....with only one inlet going in and out of here, and that inlet being constrained by jetties, which creates a funnel effect, making it that much harder for fish to migrate in and out of here. 

Not only that, but in the case of accidentally getting 'bit' by some stray current, I'd rather take my chances with 12V, not 120V, especially around water. They say that amperage is what kills, and most batteries have a higher amp output than a 120V system rated at 20 amps, but it is a fact that more people are killed by 120V, even more than with 240V. 240 will throw you off, 120 will grab you. So, with that said, even when we WERE allowed to use generators out here, I never did, as 120V and water do NOT mix, especially in a metal boat. To me, that just seems suicidal.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 10, 2012)

Lol I see your point, I use the 12v versions. I can run 3 of them off of one 12v battery for 3 or 4 nights in a row no problem. They are green so they penetrate the water really well and the area of light you actually see is like 8' around but the distance you can see the fish is much more than that


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## PSG-1 (Oct 10, 2012)

Xpress_442 said:


> Lol I see your point, I use the 12v versions. I can run 3 of them off of one 12v battery for 3 or 4 nights in a row no problem. They are green so they penetrate the water really well and the area of light you actually see is like 8' around but the distance you can see the fish is much more than that



Sounds like a pretty good light. Might be worth checking into. My incandescents are nice, but they kill a battery WAY faster than LED's. The one drawback with deck-mounted lights is they have more glare than underwater lights, and don't penetrate the water as well.

But, the drawback to underwater lights, at least around oyster rocks, is being able to keep the lights deep enough that they're in the water, but shallow enough they don't bump bottom, which is hard to do in a shallow-draft boat.

For a while, I ran standard underwater gigging lights, but as I often tend to do with things, I modified them to work better. Instead of the crappy little 12V bulb that looked like a household bulb, I removed that socket and bulb, and installed a socket for a 12V halogen headlamp bulb. Yes, they are about 20 dollars for one bulb, but they are much brighter, and they also don't burn out after just one trip, as the 12V models seem to do. But, as I said, I found them to be problematic, gigging in shallow water around oyster beds, so, that's why I went to the deck-mounted lights.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 10, 2012)

Here's a link to where I get them. They take a while to come in but they are worth the wait. I use the 20w mostly but the 10w are surprisingly bright as well


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 10, 2012)

https://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewitem?itemId=230827083606&index=11&nav=SEARCH&nid=57831047526


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## bigwave (Oct 11, 2012)

PSG, I really appreciate your insight when it comes to fabricating stuff for tinboats.....here is the Led light I was talking about the other day. It is simular to the one you have except the light output is equlivant to a 5ow halogen. I sell this light for 77 bucks. I have many comercial customers that use this light for working at night, the feedback is good, and they draw very little amps.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 11, 2012)

I paid about 70 dollars for the LED I have, but as I said, I was disappointed in the amount, and wavelength of light it emitted, the color was too blue, and definitely not intense enough.

My MR-16 LED prow lights on the jetboat are WAY brighter (equivalent to 55W halogens), and they are only a single LED. If the light you sell has an output similar to that, and it sounds like it is....then, I might have to consider trying one, and if I like it, maybe switching out the other 2 lights on my light rail to the same thing.


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## bigwave (Oct 11, 2012)

The light you have is definatly blue....the other light is a bright white light.....way different. I am also waiting on some pricing on a different company that I visited at ICAST. It also has 6 led's and has more lumens than the Taco light. I will let you know if we purchase, I have the ability to test side by side in a dark room. If the price is right we will be purchasing the other light too. The Taco light you have IMO is a POS, we had many of those lights returned because the light was too dim, and some of the led's failed causing the whole light to stop working. They do have a decent warranty though.


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## PSG-1 (Oct 11, 2012)

bigwave said:


> The Taco light you have IMO is a POS



I concur with that! =D> Maybe it's a taco bell, or at least, the sound a bell makes (dung) :LOL2: :mrgreen: LMAO

Keep me posted on the newer lights you're talking about....sounds like what I need for gigging.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 11, 2012)

Here she is fellas


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## bigwave (Oct 12, 2012)

Nice looking boat.......lots of potential.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 12, 2012)

I'd like to raise the floor to the level of the bench and the front deck but I don't have the funds right now because of college costs


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## PSG-1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Xpress_442 said:


> I'd like to raise the floor to the level of the bench and the front deck but I don't have the funds right now because of college costs



Well, if you ever DO decide to change the configuration, check out my thread where I modified my Triton 1650 SC.

I changed the multi-level platform on the bow to a single-level platform, and by raising it up to that level and leaving an empty space underneath, it allowed me to move one of the fuel tanks and one battery forward in the boat, that weight forward means I can now plane off faster, reduce porpoising, and faster steering response.

As far as the rail design for your boat, it can definitely be done with the flat bar design like mine. For your attachment points, I would use a piece of aluminum square tube, just big enough on the ID that it fits over the gunwale rail. Make it out of 1/4" wall, that will give enough meat where you can take a 3/8x16 tap and cut threads, then take a piece of 3/8 aluminum rod, cut 3/8x16 threads on the end, and either make a T-handle, or simply bend the other end and cut off about an inch or so beyond the bend, so it's like an L-shaped piece, this will also work as a handle, for clamping.


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## Xpress_442 (Oct 12, 2012)

Can you send me a link to your thread


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## PSG-1 (Oct 12, 2012)

https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=24987


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