# 7.62 Battle Rifles



## ray55classic

Any M1A , FN FAL or Hk91 owners out there? Enquiring minds want to know


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## onthewater102

I wish - I live in the S.S.R. of Connectistan where we have legislation pending to classify water pistols and other liquid propulsion devices as "Assault Weapons"


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## KMixson

I would love to have an M1A. I do have a little cheap Mosin Nagant. It does pretty well for what it is. I was a lucky one and got one that real accurate at a hundred yards. I have not shot it out further than that. I was very surprised at how accurate it turned out to be.


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## Lowe 2070 CC

How about a 7.62x35 300 aac Blackout


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## BloodStone

onthewater102 said:


> I wish - I live in the S.S.R. of Connectistan where we have legislation pending to classify water pistols and other liquid propulsion devices as "Assault Weapons"


 :lol: 

:beer:


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## ray55classic

KMixson said:


> I would love to have an M1A. I do have a little cheap Mosin Nagant. It does pretty well for what it is. I was a lucky one and got one that real accurate at a hundred yards. I have not shot it out further than that. I was very surprised at how accurate it turned out to be.



There's absolutely nothing wrong with a Moisin , they took on Hitler's troops and did an admirable job. With some good reloads I've seen some that group very well [ 1 to 1 1/2 MOA]. If you have one that shoots surplus well you can't ask for a better bolt rifle that you can depend on for anywhere near the price. They are one of the few quality rifle's that's still affordable, and in today's market that's saying something! There's a lot of aftermarket parts being built for them now including some stocks with adequate length of pull for USA sized shooters.  :beer:


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## ray55classic

onthewater102 said:


> I wish - I live in the S.S.R. of Connectistan where we have legislation pending to classify water pistols and other liquid propulsion devices as "Assault Weapons"



You have my condolences sir. I sometimes wonder how long it will be before they ban fishing hooks and steak knives. I couldn't live like that. Your state would throw me under the jail for owning inanimate objects despite having a spotless "record" for my sixty years on this earth. :-D


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## ray55classic

Lowe 2070 CC said:


> How about a 7.62x35 300 aac Blackout



While a Blackouts not really considered a full power "battle rifle" we'll let it slide this time . Whatcha got an AR?


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## Jim

Blackouts are $1 per round I see. Is that true? I would scratch it myself if that was the case.


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## ray55classic

Jim , the sad truth is commercial ammo for popular centerfire hunting rds is high .While surplus full metal jacket rds for 7.62x51[308win] can be found for 60 cents per rd . Hunting grade ammo now costs from $20 to $40 a box I'm fortunant in the fact I reload ,but even reloading component prices have risen to record levels . A lb of powder now goes for $30 to $32 , primers 3 to 5 cents apiece and decent hunting grade bullets from 25 cents to 35 cents a piece making the cost of reloading 7.62x51 or any full power hunting rd around 55 to 60 cents a rd The Blackouts reloading cost is 40 cents to 50 cents per rd. due to less powder and lighter weight bullets Both of those estimates assume using "free" old brass . The same is true with most popular centerfire hunting rds 243 win, 6mm rem, 30-30, 270win, 30-06, 7mm magnum all START around $1 a rd nowadays . Of course you can still find bulk 5.56 FMJ "plinking" grade ammo still relatively inexpensive but the same costs factors hold true when you use something other than full metal jackets.


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## Lowe 2070 CC

Right on the money as far as reloading for the blackout, not a lot of powder in that little case. with premium bullets you're looking at @$0.60/round.

Nice to swap uppers and go from 5.56 to 7.62 that quick. The blackout only needs about 8.5 to 9" of barrel due to the light charge and from a 16" barrel will approximate a .30-30

If nothing else its performance is equal to or superior to the 7.62x39 in an AR platform (AR's and tapered rounds have inherent issues), though ammo isn't as cheap.

It's an acquired taste for sure, but probably the best (not cheapest) .30 cal option in the AR world without stepping up to an AR10 in .308


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## JMichael

KMixson said:


> I would love to have an M1A. I do have a little cheap Mosin Nagant. It does pretty well for what it is. I was a lucky one and got one that real accurate at a hundred yards. I have not shot it out further than that. I was very surprised at how accurate it turned out to be.


Agnes Hailstone on Life Below Zero uses a Mosin and she's helping provide for a pretty large family with that rifle. It's shown her taking large game at 250 yards quite often so it must be a pretty capable gun. 

I've got a Japanese Arisaka type 99 chambered in 7.7 Jap that my step-dad brought back from the war. With the modern ammo it's supposedly got a muzzle velocity of 2700 fps and a muzzle energy of 2415 ft. lbs. I keep telling myself I'm going to take the thing deer hunting some day, but so far I always chicken out and take my old pre 64 model 70, chambered in 270 cal. I'd like to shoot the Arisaka more but the cost of ammo keeps me from it. That ammo is $42 + tax now, so that's over $2.25 per round now. Needless to say it doesn't get much use. :roll: Maybe I should just attach the bayonet and try to conserve ammo. :lol: Or maybe I should just take one of the swords that came with the rifle and go hunt with that. haha


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## KMixson

The main reason I purchased a Mosin is that the ammo is very affordable. You can get 440 rounds for $80.00 in some places. That equals 18 cents per round. Not bad in my book. I love it.


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## Charger25

I had a M1 Garand ,loved that thing. very accurate. had to let it go and regretted it ever since.


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## JMichael

There are 2 military weapons that I'd love to own and they have been on my wish list every since I saw one of each at a relatives house when I was a teen. One was the Garand, the other was a German Luger. At current prices, it's doubtful that I'll ever own either of them though unless I run across one in trade for a WWII Japanese officers sword or something like that.


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## ray55classic

JMichael said:


> There are 2 military weapons that I'd love to own and they have been on my wish list every since I saw one of each at a relatives house when I was a teen. One was the Garand, the other was a German Luger. At current prices, it's doubtful that I'll ever own either of them though unless I run across one in trade for a WWII Japanese officers sword or something like that.



Field grade and sometimes even higher grade Garands are still available thru the Civilian Marksmanship Program at a lot better prices that you'll usually find on the street or gunshow, you might check them out . They also have a Forum with individuals selling the Garands all the time. Depending on type your Japanese Officers sword could cover a good portion of a Garands cost maybe even the whole costs , Many sell for some pretty good money. Good luck in your quest.


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## ray55classic

duplicate deleted


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## ray55classic

ray55classic said:


> I've got a Japanese Arisaka type 99 chambered in 7.7 Jap that my step-dad brought back from the war. With the modern ammo it's supposedly got a muzzle velocity of 2700 fps and a muzzle energy of 2415 ft. lbs. I keep telling myself I'm going to take the thing deer hunting some day, but so far I always chicken out and take my old pre 64 model 70, chambered in 270 cal. I'd like to shoot the Arisaka more but the cost of ammo keeps me from it. That ammo is $42 + tax now, so that's over $2.25 per round now. Needless to say it doesn't get much use. :roll: Maybe I should just attach the bayonet and try to conserve ammo. :lol: Or maybe I should just take one of the swords that came with the rifle and go hunt with that. haha



That's a NICE Arisaka that looks to be in very good shape from the photos. It appears to be an early production model [early ones had much better quality wood and workmanship than ones made later] My father brought one back at the end of the war He was with the 38th Infantry div. and made landings in New Guinea , Leyte, and Luzon. He had acquired enough combat "points" he was among the first to come home , so they didn't grind the royal chrysanthium off the breech . Unfortunately it and a few more of his firearms were stolen about 10 years ago . He used his hunting deer a couple times when I was growing up and it brought more than a few deer home. Power wise they are very similar to an 30-06. Look at it another way even a $2.25 a rd how many rounds do you actually shoot hunting? A box could last you a few years . I've seen quite a few of the old style self contained Lee loader's that used to sell pretty reasonably but I haven't priced one lately . With some primers[$4 a 100], a lb of $30 powder [about 150rds per lb] , and a box of Enfield .303 bullets [$30 per 100], you could shoot it a LOT for under $100. I often see those loaders at shows PM me if you'd like me too look for one.[/quote]


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## JMichael

Hmm hadn't thought about any forums dealing with garands but that's an interesting thought. I've run across that Civilian Marksmanship program site before but never understood how it worked or what their prices were. Is there a main page or something that guides you through their site? Unless it's some heirloom, most of the "basic" swords that I've seen sold for $500-1500 depending on condition. 

Here's what I have. The top one has a "chromed/shiny" scabbard. It's not stainless because it has rust on it but I suspect it was for wearing with a dress uniform while the bottom one has a heavier made scabbard that is a flat green (more of a camo) color. The handle wrap is frayed on the bottom one. 








Both swords have "signatures/engravings" under the handles but I can't read them even though I spent 2 years in Japan while in the military. :lol: I have made some headway with deciphering them but it's been a while since I worked on that and I can't seem to locate my notes on that right now. 



 
Flip side.




Oh! Almost forgot, the mum has been ground off of the Arisaka that I have. All that's visible now is the outline and some grinding/file marks and it's not a numbers matching gun as the bolt and firing pin are numbered 119 but the gun serial is 15335. I know these were made at several different armories but the low serial on this one and the quality makes me think it was probably and early war manufactured gun.


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## ray55classic

JMichael said:


> Hmm hadn't thought about any forums dealing with garands but that's an interesting thought. I've run across that Civilian Marksmanship program site before but never understood how it worked or what their prices were. Is there a main page or something that guides you through their site?Go to CMP.org Unless it's some heirloom, most of the "basic" swords that I've seen sold for $500-1500 depending on condition.
> 
> 
> JMichael.... go to cmp.org [NOT the AUCTION site] there should be a number of windows click sales and service or rifle sales an read them it should have a window or page concerning eligibility basically it's the same as regular firearms sales with the exception of requiring you to belong to a state or local orginazation that holds approved shooting matches. Here in Texas I'm in the Texas State Rifle Association. A current membership will satisfy that requirement. Arkansas has a number of eligible "clubs" and I believe a state rifle org. So for just the cost of a membership in one of them that requirement is covered [TSRA is $25]. All the required documentation must be sent to the CMP and must be on file with them before any order is accepted . The Garand you really want is the "special" grade which has a NEW stock, handguards, a NEW criterion barrel and sling ,all the metal parts including the receiver are in very good condition and have been completely refinished. You can get this special grade Garand for $995 plus $30 shipping. Which to my way of thinking is a BARGAIN . You'd pay that for a mismatched worn out piece of crap at many places. There are 2 cheaper grades for sale, but for a genuine M1 Garand rifle in almost "new" condition the "special" is definitely the way I'd recommend to go. I believe the "special" is also available in .308 win making less expensive "surplus ammo" a reality. Properly maintained your great great grandchildren could use this rifle.
> 
> Here's what I have. The top one has a "chromed/shiny" scabbard. It's not stainless because it has rust on it but I suspect it was for wearing with a dress uniform while the bottom one has a heavier made scabbard that is a flat green (more of a camo) color. The handle wrap is frayed on the bottom one.
> 
> JM ...I must admit I don't know very much about swords. I would google WW2 Japanese swords . I know there are a number of outfits online that will ID your swords [with clear photos] and even make an offer. {One such source is "quanoline.com} I doubt I would take any online offer [probably a ridiculous low ball] but it would in my opinion be worth the time to get them ID'ed to know what you have for reference , for posterity , and for any possible future sales.
> 
> 
> Both swords have "signatures/engravings" under the handles but I can't read them even though I spent 2 years in Japan while in the military. :lol: I have made some headway with deciphering them but it's been a while since I worked on that and I can't seem to locate my notes on that right now.
> Oh! Almost forgot, the mum has been ground off of the Arisaka that I have. All that's visible now is the outline and some grinding/file marks and it's not a numbers matching gun as the bolt and firing pin are numbered 119 but the gun serial is 15335. I know these were made at several different armories but the low serial on this one and the quality makes me think it was probably and early war manufactured gun.
> 
> JM.....I'm also no "expert" on Arisaka's but I do agree your Arisaka is an early example of the type 99 rifle. If it has a chrome lined bore that would prove it's an early model , I believe they were the first military rifle to have this feature and it was dropped mid war. Your correct in that they were made in 7 different Japanese factories and 2 factories in occupied Manchuria. Where was your Father in law in the Pacific? He and my Father may have crossed paths, Stranger things have happened, I met a man who's Father served in Kruger's 6th army of which the 38th div was a part of for a while. If you'd ever consider letting it your Arisaka go PM me. and BTW I enjoy the conversation with you........ Ray


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## paper

JMichael said:


> Hmm hadn't thought about any forums dealing with garands but that's an interesting thought. I've run across that Civilian Marksmanship program site before but never understood how it worked or what their prices were. Is there a main page or something that guides you through their site?



I bought three Garands this week from CMP at the South Store in Anniston, AL.. 
There's two ways to purchase from them, directly at the stores (Anniston and Camp Perry, OH) or you can mail order. I prefer to pick out my own guns, and I was working near Columbus, GA this week so I took time to wander to Anniston and I picked out a very nice HRA Field Grade and two Winchester Field Grade guns.. 

The thing to remember about CMP is that you're going to get a functioning, safe firearm. CMP isn't some fly by night outfit, but a government program that's been around for a LONG time and is selling US military firearms to legal citizens which pays for youth training and shooting competitions, as well as other activities. 

If you mail order, I'd recommend at least a Service Grade.. You will end up with a great weapon, that will more than likely be wearing a brand new stock and will shoot well. Most SG rifles are in very, very good condition, and if there's an issue they'll make it right by either sending you a small part to repair it, or sending it back for repair or replacement (very rarely is this needed)..

To qualify you need to be a member of a CMP affiliated club, which can be anything from the Garand Collectors Association ($20 and they contact CMP with your membership info the day you join) to a local club that holds matches. (there are a lot if you look on the website)

Unless you live in a couple states, you do the paperwork, have it notarized, send it in, and WAIT... And WAIT... And WAIT.. Then, one day you'll get an email that your order is in process and after a short wait you'll get a phone call from FedEx that a package will be showing up the next day and that an adult will need to sign for it..

The FedEx guy will bring you a box like this. (the longer one.. The short one is the old Carbine box and they're out of the Carbines)







In the box will be a nice case like this






And in that box will be something similar to this.. as well as certificate of origin, a safety flag open chamber indicator, an enbloc to hold ammo, and instructions.. 






I'd also recommend ordering CMP's HPX Greek ammo when ordering the rifle.. The price is right and it's made for Garands.

And THEN, if you want.. Attend a match and have fun and meet fun people who love shooting!! 











This is what the CMP store used to look like.. The racks are a little more bare right now due to demand, but getting better..


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## DaleH

My best friend has a DPMS AR in 308 and I am constantly amazed at how accurate that platform is! Using 150-grn a Power Shok softpoint ammo he put 10 into an honest 1-1/4" group @ 100Y. 

I myself have a Nat. Match M1 in 308 that will shoot sub-MOA w/ aperture sights. My 30-class battle rifle is a custom PSL, where I had the barrel cryo'd (frozen -300F) and now it groups well!


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## PSG-1

Here's my 7.62 rifles:

US M24 (Rem 700) with 5R mil-spec barrel, and Leupold 6.5-20X50 M1 Long Range Tactical scope. Also shown is a Bushnell range finder, and the NV scope that attaches to the picatinny rail. 





But this is still my favorite:



This is my PSG1 rifle. It's built from an HK-91, using a heavier trunnion (barrel support) reinforcing rails welded into the receiver grooves, a 30" Hart 416 stainless barrel (1 in 12 twist with '95 JGS Palma Match Chamber) a PSG-1 stock, Williams Set Trigger, and a picatinny rail that accepts all kinds of optics. The scope shown is a Leupold 6.5-20X50 M1 Long Range. The gunsmith that did this modification was a DOD contractor for 20 years. During his time as a gunsmith, he built rifles that placed in national, and international events, like Camp Perry. He built rifles for elite police and military units.

On a good day, with the right ammo, and the right shooter, this particular rifle will break 4" clay pigeons at 800 yards. That's 1/2 MOA at 1/2 a mile.


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## lovedr79

here is my DPMS .308 and my SKS that are for sale..........


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## lovedr79

I also have my grandfathers 1917 Eddystone


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## bcbouy

anyone have a good way of removing cosmolime from an sks? i'm going to wrap my stock in shop towels,vacuum seal it in my foodsaver and submerse it in hot water and see if i can't sweat most of it out,however the interweb has a million different ways to do the steel parts.i'm looking for safe/fairly quick.


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## KMixson

bcbouy said:


> anyone have a good way of removing cosmolime from an sks? i'm going to wrap my stock in shop towels,vacuum seal it in my foodsaver and submerse it in hot water and see if i can't sweat most of it out,however the interweb has a million different ways to do the steel parts.i'm looking for safe/fairly quick.



Wrap the stock in rags and place in a hot car during the summer or wrap it and place in an oven on a low heat(160 to 180 degrees) for a while if it will fit in the oven. Let the heat sweat the cosmoline out of the stock. I wouldn't wrap it in food saver bags because then you will be sealing the cosmoline in the bag. As for the steel parts I use a plastic tub with a mixture of Super Clean and hot water and let it soak for a while. I slosh it around every so often as it is sitting in the mixture. Then rinse with very hot water. You will still have some left in the nooks and crannies of your parts. Then you can take a heat gun or hair dryer and heat the stubborn stuff to get most of it off.


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## Abraham

KMixson said:


> bcbouy said:
> 
> 
> 
> anyone have a good way of removing cosmolime from an sks? i'm going to wrap my stock in shop towels,vacuum seal it in my foodsaver and submerse it in hot water and see if i can't sweat most of it out,however the interweb has a million different ways to do the steel parts.i'm looking for safe/fairly quick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Wrap the stock in rags and place in a hot car during the summer *or wrap it and place in an oven on a low heat(160 to 180 degrees) for a while if it will fit in the oven. Let the heat sweat the cosmoline out of the stock. I wouldn't wrap it in food saver bags because then you will be sealing the cosmoline in the bag. As for the steel parts I use a plastic tub with a mixture of Super Clean and hot water and let it soak for a while. I slosh it around every so often as it is sitting in the mixture. Then rinse with very hot water. You will still have some left in the nooks and crannies of your parts. Then you can take a heat gun or hair dryer and heat the stubborn stuff to get most of it off.
Click to expand...


Thank you for the idea. That sounds like it would work great. 

One of my old teachers did an experiment on how hot the interior of a vehicle gets in the summertime. It was 140 after three hours in 90 degree temperatures. That oughta cook it outta there :mrgreen:


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## skyline223

No FAL, but I have an FN SCAR 17S. Great battle rifle, I have really enjoyed it.


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## lovedr79

bcbouy said:


> anyone have a good way of removing cosmolime from an sks? i'm going to wrap my stock in shop towels,vacuum seal it in my foodsaver and submerse it in hot water and see if i can't sweat most of it out,however the interweb has a million different ways to do the steel parts.i'm looking for safe/fairly quick.



i have used nitro solvent to get it off the metal. remove the stock and use a shark handheld steamer to getit out of the wood, or you can set the stock out in the sun in the middle of the summer.


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## bcbouy

i ended up using crud cutter and mineral spirits on the metal.fyi,the hot water/foodsaver plan worked like a charm and didn't stink up the whole house.lots sweated out after an hour of sitting.i guess i don't need to wait untill summer to fire the gun :roll: .shot 80 rounds thru it on sunday and a little more leached out so i broke it down and recleaned it. i have a feeling i'm going to be doing that every time i fire it for the next few times.


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## welder

M1A, NM, SS barrel, 2 stage trigger, bedded BBL.


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## PSG-1

Very nice M1A! What kind of optics do you use on it?


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## bcbouy

i was planning on hittting the gun shop for a new crate of 7.62 ammo.i saw on the website they have a deal on 1320 rounds and a russian refurb 54 tula laminate sks for $375.my other sks is now a blacked out tapco with a bushnell red dot. its amazing how fast a guy can blast through a 1440 round crate. i can't resist the deal.can't hurt to have a spare right?


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