# hydroponics



## fool4fish1226 (Jan 29, 2016)

Anyone ever try deep water hydroponics - I think I am going to give it a go - I just ordered everything I need to do a 18 plant setup


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## Fishfreek (Jan 29, 2016)

My first wife and I had a big hydroponics setup for years. I was completely amazed at how fast everything grew and the quantity most of the plants produced. we used a mixture of deep water and what I called pass by watering. The pass by was a system where all the pots hung from chains and then the nutrient matter was dripped into the top pot and watered the others as the solution passed by on it's way to the pots below then into a trough to be recirculated. In a 40' X 68' long green house we could grow the equivalent of an 11 to 13 acre traditional farm.


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## Jim (Jan 29, 2016)

Links please! We have been talking about this for awhile now. :beer:


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 29, 2016)

That sounds awesome - I am limited on space and I figured this could be a good option


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## bobberboy (Jan 29, 2016)

Fishfreek said:


> My first wife and I had a big hydroponics setup for years. I was completely amazed at how fast everything grew and the quantity most of the plants produced. we used a mixture of deep water and what I called pass by watering. The pass by was a system where all the pots hung from chains and then the nutrient matter was dripped into the top pot and watered the others as the solution passed by on it's way to the pots below then into a trough to be recirculated. In a 40' X 68' long green house we could grow the equivalent of an 11 to 13 acre traditional farm.




Wow! If you've got any pics of your former setup it would be cool to see some of them.


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## Fishfreek (Jan 29, 2016)

Wife got the setup and property in the divorce. I will look over the weekend for pics.


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 29, 2016)

Here is one of many links 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln7qQPaqy_A


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## RiverBottomOutdoors (Jan 29, 2016)

Do I need a prescription for this?


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 29, 2016)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> Do I need a prescription for this?



No prescription needed unless it is for veggies :LOL2: :beer:


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 29, 2016)

I will take step by step pics with the build and then how the plants do - This is my first attempted so we all will see :beer: 

All parts should be here in a week or so =D>


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## Fishfreek (Jan 29, 2016)

Can't wait to see what you will be using. Show us a couple pics when everything gets in before you get it set up please.


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## Kismet (Jan 29, 2016)

I remember an article, maybe 40 years ago :shock: , about a trend in New York City, where folks would rent an apartment and set up tanks, a special high intensity light on a motorized track which was set up with a timer--moving back and forth to simulate the sun's movement, and an automatic nutrient pump, and then leave the apartment alone for weeks at a time over months' long periods. 

Finally got discovered as aroma, and then power usage, was noticed.

Folks were shocked that someone would pay New York rents just to grow marijuana.

I was, naively , surprised that someone would go to that much trouble. 

duh. #-o


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## Texas Prowler (Jan 29, 2016)

Subscribed....

Sent from the dust in front of you!


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 30, 2016)

Fishfreek said:


> Can't wait to see what you will be using. Show us a couple pics when everything gets in before you get it set up please.



Will do :beer:


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## Captain Ahab (Jan 31, 2016)

RiverBottomOutdoors said:


> Do I need a prescription for this?





Not in DE!


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## fool4fish1226 (Jan 31, 2016)

Here is a link I found this morning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3-9u-HtFG8


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## JMichael (Jan 31, 2016)

I've been looking at possibly doing a seed starter setup. One where I could start my stuff from seeds in time to transfer them to the garden once they are mature enough and the weather is warm enough for them to be outside. I'm thinking big head start for my tomatoes, peppers, etc. Not sure what going with a full hydro grow would take, so this will be interesting to watch. And if you end up needing a permit, you better be in a different state than the one I'm in, cause they don't do permits here. :shock:


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## fool4fish1226 (Feb 1, 2016)

got some of my parts today thanks to the USPS :beer: I hope by the end of the week they will all be here - can't wait to see how this works :beer:


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## SumDumGuy (Feb 1, 2016)

A few pics (hope they show up correctly, I'm at work) of some of my hydro stuff...

earlier...
https://goo.gl/photos/c95M6FX4xw5d9DbF8
https://goo.gl/photos/XtcihKiUHXEZQVzP6
https://goo.gl/photos/SSx3bysEM9QsfiiBA

Indoor "Kratky":
https://goo.gl/photos/td6G2fQ2ieuiavoMA
https://goo.gl/photos/SAe6djfXpSfsMpd57
https://goo.gl/photos/oNMqrqPE6ATX21m58
https://goo.gl/photos/iji6TouyTba4xkM9A

NFT lettuce:
https://goo.gl/photos/W4CCwcHdenn3bxgx7

Current indoor:
https://goo.gl/photos/KSAc6X3LsQ2S9xfz7
https://goo.gl/photos/ekNJJS5abt8K3FY98
https://goo.gl/photos/HauDoFdd5D31poLr9


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## JMichael (Feb 1, 2016)

Holy crap, how many grocery stores do you supply? LoL That seems like a huge operation. It must be less time consuming than I would have guessed.


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## fool4fish1226 (Feb 2, 2016)

SumDumGuy said:


> A few pics (hope they show up correctly, I'm at work) of some of my hydro stuff...
> 
> earlier...
> https://goo.gl/photos/c95M6FX4xw5d9DbF8
> ...




AWESOME thanks for sharing :beer:


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## SumDumGuy (Feb 2, 2016)

something to do when it's cold. we have hard water here in the winter.


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## fool4fish1226 (Feb 6, 2016)

Here are some pics of my setup


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## JMichael (Feb 6, 2016)

Wow those seeds germinated fast. :lol: But on a serious note, I've seen that brown marble looking media used with hydroponics a lot, what is it exactly? And I'm no hydroponics guy, but I've read enough to know that's not enough stuff.


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## fool4fish1226 (Feb 6, 2016)

JMichael said:


> Wow those seeds germinated fast. :lol: But on a serious note, I've seen that brown marble looking media used with hydroponics a lot, what is it exactly? And I'm no hydroponics guy, but I've read enough to know that's not enough stuff.



They are clay pellets (they have several different names) but it seemed that allot of others were using them so that is what I went with and your right there is never enough :LOL2: 

Not sure but everything seems to be doing well - I did find out that my PH in my tap water is super high


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## JMichael (Feb 7, 2016)

Well I look forward to seeing your results. I've heard so much about how fast stuff grows with hydro. From the little bit of research I've done on hydro in the past, the liquid fertilizers they use seem to be on the pricey side, but then again I don't know how long a bottle would last either.


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## Jim (Feb 8, 2016)

wow! Nice setup!


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## sunshine (Feb 8, 2016)

I worked on an aquaponics farm for awhile my senior year of college and for awhile after graduating. We utilized deep water culture for leafy greens and herbs. Was a 6k plant farm, we had 4' wide by 150'+ channels about 18" deep and we used 2" thick 4'x8' foam insulation boards with holes drilled out for the net pots to sit in. From seed to harvest gourmet lettuce was a 49 day cycle.

I have a redneck reverse engineered dutch bucket system that I run at the house for tomatoes, peppers, and kale mainly. I didn't run it this winter because I spent 95% of my weekends in Georgia hunting, but I will be getting it fired back up here soon once I get these boats squared away.

The growth speed and fruit yield of a well tuned hydroponic system is truly amazing compared to growing in the ground, not to mention you have far fewer issues with bugs and soil based critters that give gardeners fits.


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## JMichael (Feb 8, 2016)

sunshine said:


> I worked on an aquaponics farm for awhile my senior year of college and for awhile after graduating. We utilized deep water culture for leafy greens and herbs. Was a 6k plant farm, we had 4' wide by 150'+ channels about 18" deep and we used 2" thick 4'x8' foam insulation boards with holes drilled out for the net pots to sit in. From seed to harvest gourmet lettuce was a 49 day cycle.
> 
> I have a redneck reverse engineered dutch bucket system that I run at the house for tomatoes, peppers, and kale mainly. I didn't run it this winter because I spent 95% of my weekends in Georgia hunting, but I will be getting it fired back up here soon once I get these boats squared away.
> 
> The growth speed and fruit yield of a well tuned hydroponic system is truly amazing compared to growing in the ground, not to mention you have far fewer issues with bugs and soil based critters that give gardeners fits.


I'd sure like to see some pics of your tomato setup if you have any. Did you grow outdoors with natural light or was this indoors?


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## sunshine (Feb 9, 2016)

Outdoors. Here are some pics


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## SumDumGuy (Feb 9, 2016)

^^^^ nice.

I have seen some incredible success stories from dutch buckets. I have yet to setup one of these systems, but come spring it will surely be implemented.

pH is key. If you can keep it in the range that the crop likes explosive growth will occur.

There are alternatives to the pricey "hydroponics" fertilizers. I have no desire to pay extra for stuff that is mostly water.

Check out a 4-18-38 tomato blend (often referenced as MasterBlend - although there are other manufacturers). With this blend and some added calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate a very good fertilizer can be had for cheap compared to the "hydro" stuff.


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## sunshine (Feb 9, 2016)

In the aquaponics system I ran, we had a bunch of fish, mainly tilapia, that provided the nutrient source. Given, you had to provide accommodations for nitrate fixing and such, but was relatively simple. As you mentioned, pH is key, but maintaining proper levels of bioavailable (often pH linked) nutrients is important as well. In addition, matching "compatible" plants together within systems is important. Tomatoes and peppers happen to enjoy similar nutrient and pH ranges and also happen to be the most consumed and expensive vegetable in our house. Kale does well along side of them as well. I tried growing some pickling cucumbers in the same solution and they tanked bad.

I usually utilize a General Hydroponics Flora series nutrient and formulate it myself, it is less than $20 per growing season and I had experience with their stuff previously. Will check out the product you mentioned.

Other key points are flushing your system with fresh clean unadulterated water. Nutrient salts build up and can actually become detrimental to nutrient uptake within the systems. I simply took the "spent" solution and dumped it on flower gardens or whatever then added new water, don't add any nutrients, let it run for a couple days then dump that water and prepare your new nutrient solution. Also, hydroton and perlite often have a TON of dust within the packages they come in and I've found that I am better off to give them some rinses first.

A really potent fertilizer that I became familiar with a few years ago is worm compost tea. Almost seems like you can see and hear your plants growing after a couple applications.


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## AllOutdoors (Feb 10, 2016)

Nice pics and results! Seems complicated and time consuming. No disrespect whatsoever. I'm just a dumb ole' farmer/ gardener that is used to putting stuff in the ground. You guys have taken it to another level. Is this done inside or out?


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## sunshine (Feb 10, 2016)

You can do them indoors or out. It's actually not at all complicated or time consuming. Everything is run on a timer, I only monitor water levels and use a conductivity probe to determine nutrient levels. If you run a hose on a float valve to your reservoir, you don't even have to worry about that running dry. I do a full water change out every 10-14 days. If you can mix oil and fuel for 2 strokes, you can do the math for the nutrient additions.

I did a side by side study with plants in the ground with automatic watering and this system produced tomatoes 18 days earlier and probably doubled production per plant, in addition to having substantial less issues with bugs and almost no weeding required.

Probably has a lot to do with Florida's sandy, nutrient poor soil that also drains too efficiently and flushes your fertilizers out.


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## JMichael (Feb 10, 2016)

sunshine said:


> You can do them indoors or out. It's actually not at all complicated or time consuming. Everything is run on a timer, I only monitor water levels and use a conductivity probe to determine nutrient levels. If you run a hose on a float valve to your reservoir, you don't even have to worry about that running dry. I do a full water change out every 10-14 days. If you can mix oil and fuel for 2 strokes, you can do the math for the nutrient additions.
> 
> I did a side by side study with plants in the ground with automatic watering and this system produced tomatoes 18 days earlier and probably doubled production per plant, in addition to having substantial less issues with bugs and almost no weeding required.
> 
> Probably has a lot to do with Florida's sandy, nutrient poor soil that also drains too efficiently and flushes your fertilizers out.


Thanks for posting the pic. I don't have the room to do anything like this indoors and after seeing your setup, I think another obstacle for me would be how to keep the buckets upright. We generally have a few storms per growing season that will blow all my tomatoes over, cage and all. And I use some pretty substantial cages. So that would probably destroy a hydro system. How do you combat that problem?


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## sunshine (Feb 10, 2016)

I made a wooden structure and just framed them in with 2x4s so they can't really topple over. If you look closely at the pic with the PVC return lines, you'll see what I mean. I also quit using the cages and screwed 2 2x4s into the side of the wooden structure and did a "Florida weave" with butcher twine. 

Not my drawing, but here's an illustration of the concept.


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## fool4fish1226 (Feb 15, 2016)

Well it has been @11 dyas and most of my plants are starting to root - I will get pics this weekend and post them. I do have a question for you hydro guys - what type of PH meters do you all use?


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## ctboater (Feb 15, 2016)

I use a Hanna 98129, it does PH and PPM. Really nice meter but pricey, about $150. But you can get one that will work on Ebay for about $11 and up and they do work.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2060353.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xph+meter.TRS0&_nkw=ph+meter&_sacat=0 

Hanna
https://hannainst.com/products/testers/hi98129-ph-ec-tds-tester.html

PS I have done hydro but doing soil now but still test the Nute mix for PH and PPM.


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## SumDumGuy (Feb 15, 2016)

I am still using a $10 ebay, imported pH meter.
It has worked without issue for the last year, and with no calibration (I keep litmus paper around to periodically verify meter reading).


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## sunshine (Feb 15, 2016)

I work in a lab so I test my stuff there. I'm spoiled. :lol: 

As mentioned, conductivity/pH meters aren't all that expensive. Dip strips work fine for pH too.


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## fool4fish1226 (Feb 16, 2016)

Thanks fellers - Am I correct that I want the PH around 6 - I do have the strips, a pool type tester, and a cheap ebay one too. I guess I am on the right path. Thanks again


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## JMichael (Feb 17, 2016)

I understand PH and why it's important, but why is the PPM so critical or what does it do for you exactly. And before someone says it, I know what PPM stands for, just not why it's critical to the plants.


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## sunshine (Feb 17, 2016)

The ppm you're referring to is the unit for the total dissolved solids in your nutrient solution, ppm can also be expressed as mg/l . It it a rough gauge of the amount of nutrients available for your plants to uptake from the solution. Too high, the plant will lock up. Too low, you'll see deficiencies. It's not practical for folks to determine the actual levels of the individual compounds, nitrogens, etc so the conductivity/TDS is used for process control.

This is a good chart for pairing up different plants and getting a good starting point as far as pH and nutrient levels.

https://www.homehydrosystems.com/ph_tds_ppm/ph_vegetables_page.html


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## JMichael (Feb 17, 2016)

So you're saying that just like different plants may like different PH levels, they also may want different nutrient levels and that's what you are checking with the PPM meter, the amount of fertilizer/nutrients in the water? Or it's basically a way of checking the ratio of fertilizer/nutrients to water? 

And if the above is correct, then all the PPM is telling you is the ratio of nutrients to water but that does not necessarily mean you have the correct parts (ie nitrogen, potassium) that that particular plant may want?


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## SumDumGuy (Feb 17, 2016)

JMichael said:


> So you're saying that just like different plants may like different PH levels, they also may want different nutrient levels and that's what you are checking with the PPM meter, the amount of fertilizer/nutrients in the water? Or it's basically a way of checking the ratio of fertilizer/nutrients to water?
> 
> And if the above is correct, then all the PPM is telling you is the ratio of nutrients to water but that does not necessarily mean you have the correct parts (ie nitrogen, potassium) that that particular plant may want?



Yes.

It is a way of checking the amount of fertilizer/nutrients in the water. Total Dissolved Solids measured in parts per million for a given amount of water.

*Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) are the total amount of mobile charged ions, including minerals, salts or metals dissolved in a given volume of water, expressed in units of mg per unit volume of water (mg/L), also referred to as parts per million (ppm).*

Correct parts or ratios of fertilizer are determined prior to addition to solution. For example you may start out with a 4-18-38 fert (known ratios of the big 3), and then add this "stuff" to your solution until you get to the EC or TDS that you want. Low TDS or high TDS you will still have the same ratio of fertilizer parts, just at different concentrations.


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## sunshine (Feb 17, 2016)

Yes, you are correct. Determining the actual levels of those individual nutrients is cost and time prohibitive for the average DIY guy. When preparing your solution you dose according to your targeted plants liking with the assumption that they will consume it proportionally to their published needs. 

Knowing your conductivity/TDS is not necessary by any measure but just helps you dial it in a bit better. Otherwise you are waiting for your plants to show you signs that the solution needs changed out or doing it on a time schedule, which may result in either wasted nutes or slowed growth.

Also, if you are intending on using municipal or well water instead of distilled or RO water in your nutrient solution preparation, consider the nutrient/mineral levels (hardness) in your starting water when calculating your additions, this will vary greatly by location. 

I mentioned it previously, but it's also good to give the plants a day or two of clean water lacking any additions in between every couple/few solution changes to flush any salt build up out.


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## Butthead (Feb 23, 2016)

I was totally thinking this was going to be a Colorado discussion.


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