# Mod V vs Flat hull for super shallow. Alweld;Lowe;Tracker ??



## richg99 (Jun 18, 2017)

In addition to my G3 1652, I am trying to put together a boat for extreme shallow (5 inches or so ) fishing in the Texas Flats. Since my wife and my knees have convinced me that I should get rid of my kayaks...I am forced to buy something for ultra skinny use.

I've ruled out Gheenoes (too tippy); Looking at Carolina Skiff J16s. But, our beloved tinnys might come to the rescue. 

I found a Tracker GRIZZLY 1448 MVX Jon as a possible choice.
First, it seems to weigh an awful lot, compared to a similar Lowe (275 lbs-1648 MT Aura). That may be the thickness of the hull difference. Specs say it weighs in at 538 lbs??? Anyone know if that is right?

Bottom of the Tracker hull, according to the picture, looks like it is slightly bowed... not exactly flat. I know it will ride in chop better that way, but that is not the feature that I am looking for. Shallow, shallow, shallow is my mantra! I am not sure if the Lowe has a similar shape since their site doesn't show the bottom configuration.

Through A K McCullom (our sponsor here) I am also checking out an Alweld Marsh 1544. 

The lightest; shallowest; and the most reasonably priced boat will probably win out.

Any and all input appreciated. Shallow, Shallow, shallow...

richg99


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## eshaw (Jun 18, 2017)

I know that if I was looking to float in 6" of water I'd be looking for the absolute widest hull I could possibly find. The more displacement the better. A vee hull would definitely be out. What are you planning on using for power?


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## richg99 (Jun 18, 2017)

Hoping to use a 25 hp. which is what most of the skinny water boats use. In fact, some use 20 hp Tohatsu's. 

You make a good point, wider is better, though harder to push..which might add weight. 

richg99


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## richg99 (Jun 18, 2017)

Of the 3 boats that I have looked at so far, 2 are 48 inches, and the Alweld is 44 inches. Guess I will have to look to see if any of the manufacturers have even wider hulls available.

thanks richg99

p.s. After a quick, cursory look...wider is quite a bit heavier, and requires an even bigger engine. Might be that 48 inch-wide is my max for this project.


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## Stumpalump (Jun 18, 2017)

I've never fished "flats" but if there is a flood, high water or a creek with a foot of water in it I'm the first one in. We used to do Lewis and Clark adventures all thru Arkansas cypress swamps. My experiance has been that weight is everthing in shallow water. Use a dirt cheap thin riveted flat bottom. A two stroke 9.9 of 15 jonnyrude are about the same with the 9.9 better at slow speeds. Light and fast. V boats are better in the sticks and rocks because they turn better and really don't draw much more water in practical use. Turn in a flat bottom and the side hits bottom. Turn in a v hull and the keel is still the deepest part. No turns and no obstacles then of course a flat bottom a flat bottom is best. Nothing wrong with new and the Tohatsu 20 would be great but I'd buy a boat based on weight alone and remember just because the rednecks can only make a flat bottom work in the shallow does not mean your skipper skills can't out maneuver them in a light v hull especially if the ground is not flat. I prefer them in shallows. My 18 hull weighs 545 pounds and my old 16 was 350 ish. The 18 is like a freaking Sherman tank in the shallows and unusable. The 350 pound hull I could at least move but still way too heavy. This afternoon is canoe day because I still love the light weight and shallows. Your right to want a seperate boat for it. Keep your jacket on because when you jump out to pull it you fall on a stumps and break ribs.


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## Stumpalump (Jun 18, 2017)

Here is a V that just popped up on my local Craig's. You can't tell me that a flat bottom will do any better than a hull like this in the shallows. Remember also that as a V leans you have more hull surface in the water than a flatly with flat sides. A V leans and it rises a flatty leans and digs the side in. Not trying to convince you but just making the point as to why I prefer a V in all conditions.


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## richg99 (Jun 18, 2017)

Thanks. Keep the inputs coming.


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## surfman (Jun 19, 2017)

When it comes to floating shallow three things matter, flat bottom, light weight and large displacement. A larger wider flat bottom boat will float in less water than a smaller boat simply because you are spreading the weight out over a larger area. That falls apart if your larger boat gets a lot heavier but, I have a friend that uses a Carolina skiff 24 and that that thing floats way shallower than a Carolina skiff 19.

I have a 1448 and it is okay but it really doesn't lean when I turn it, it stays pretty flat.

I also added floatation pods to help and they do especially since I usually fish alone and am standing near the rear of the boat. I gained about an inch with those which helps offset the heavy 20 hp 4s I have on it.


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## turbotodd (Jun 19, 2017)

We're blessed with some great cold-water streams/rivers here that are great trout fisheries. The downside is that they're real shallow in a lot of places. Thus, some guys have stepped up and built dedicated "trout" boats (as I call them). In looking at the basic hull design, you'll see that they're completely flat bottom-for a shallow draft. And, they're banana shaped front to rear which does a couple things. First it gets on plane almost instantly and secondly it is MUCH easier to get it "un-stuck" from a gravel bar; normally just walking from one end of the boat to the other will get it freed. Shawnee makes a popular boat just for this type fishing, as does Topwater and a few others that I can't think of OTOH. But the basic principle is the same for all of them and may give you ideas to look at as far as hull shapes and designs for running skinny. I use my war eagle often in the same areas but there's a few places that I won't go; as they're generally less than 6" depth which is about what my boat drafts with just me and my normal load. This is not counting the motor, just the boat. On plane, about 4" again not counting the motor, and tend to avoid the shallower areas because the water level can drop while I'm on the other side, and a 1548 is not the easiest to have to manually pull it across exposed gravel bars-speaking from experience.


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## richg99 (Jun 19, 2017)

Shawnee boats are pretty slick. Of course, running rivers is a lot different than running long flats. No current to help. But, no rocks, either...at least not around the Galveston, Texas flats.

I've eliminated the Gheenoe boats as too tippy for this old, clumsy fart.

The widest 16 foot or so flat bottom boat so far is the Carolina Skiff J16. 

I may well just wait until I get back to Texas in October to buy anything. Prices should be better, and, more importantly, I won't have to store a boat I can't use for 4 months.

Ah, life....so many choices. thanks richg99


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## overboard (Jun 20, 2017)

Rich, must be other guys fishing those flats, do a little snooping and see what they are using to get some ideas.
I saw you want to put a 20 or 25hp motor on, I'm assuming you will be using that to get you to the flats and then you will trim it up and either pole or row after that, there is no way you will be able to run the prop motor in 4-5" or so of water. I have both a 1654 FB and a 1648 MV tracker GRIZZLY, I think my 1648 has a 3 deg. dead rise, the new ones are I believe 7 deg. Both boats are heavy, but the 1654 with the flat bottom drafts shallower than the 1648 MV. 
There are guys on here that know a heck of a lot more than I do, but even with a jet that can run in 3-4" of water on plane you may need several more inches of depth with the boat just sitting. I will tend to agree that lighter, and wider would be better for extremely shallow fishing. 
If the boat sits low in the back due to engine weight, your weight, batt., gas tank, that could change the draft considerably at the transom, might need to look at center consoles.
Just a few thoughts for you to consider!


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## onthewater102 (Jun 20, 2017)

If you're looking to buy new you can find wider than 48" in a 16 foot or less from several manufacturers. You'll lose a little top end speed with a wider boat but you should plane faster. It won't matter though if you can't get the clearance you need to traverse the flats.

It sounds like your technical requirements for displacement are going to dictate your selection, so you've got to do the math for each model. Water weighs 62.42lbs per cubic foot - for simplicity sake I'd assume the first 2' of any jon bow are pitched and only contribute negligibly to the displaced volume. I'd also ignore the impact of the pitch in the side of the hull as any variance it contributes will be favorable to the result of your calculation. So I'd figure a 1448 as being 12' long by 4' wide - the tracker grizzly weighs in at 538lbs (rather hefty) and would by itself need to displace 8.6 cubic feet of water, so if its bottom were flat it would displace 2.25", but it isn't flat - it has a 7 degree deadrise so it will be 3" lower at the center than the sides (simple trig calculator found HERE.) Taking this into account assuming a level slope the hull would displace half as much water in this 3" height as a flat bottom, so the actual draft of the empty hull would be about 3.75" - which probably isn't going to work for you once you add yourself and your gear.

Alweld makes a 1552 which will weigh less than a 16' and is available in a flat bottom but they don't list the weight.
https://www.alweld.com/small-jons

Weld-Craft makes a 1452 weighing 350lbs with a flat bottom, which by my logic above would draft a little less than an inch and a half empty - I doubt you're going to find better than that in a .100" welded hull. Riveted hulls will use thinner material and weigh less, but sacrifice durability to achieve it, which I don't think you want to do running skinny water.

Link to the Weld=craft is here:
https://www.duckysboats.com/new_vehicle_detail.asp?mfrcode=2375&catcode=21&modelyear=2016&veh=540323&brands=n&dropdown=n&MainManufacturer=2375&DispType=


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## richg99 (Jun 20, 2017)

Thanks for all of the calculations. That is far beyond what my old mind would do .... to buy a boat.

My casual search has eliminated the skinny hulls (Gheenoes) on the basis of "too tippy" for me. 

I agree that ...Running... in really shallow water could be a problem. However, here in Texas, Scooters are popular. (See pix below). Equipped with a tunnel and a jack plate, the propellor can often be almost ABOVE the level of the water. 

But, they are ideal for running ...TO... a shallow flat, and then getting out and wading. Much like my kayaking days, I suspect that my wading days are pretty much over. My new knee won't like stepping into a foot or two of Texas Gumbo. Some days, you think you are NOT going to get your foot back. Ha Ha 

I haven't made up my mind. Luckily, I don't need to, at least not until we return to Texas in mid-October. As I said in an earlier post, right now a J16 Carolina Skiff has my eye. At 64 inches wide, it is the widest small boat that I've found. Hull weighs in at 320 lbs or so. But, after one adds the fiberglass, heavy front deck; a chair; and some storage, that hull weight increases. I had a wider 16 ft CS some years ago. Even with a lot more weight, it could get skinny easily.

regards, richg99


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## Stumpalump (Jun 20, 2017)

These water/mud shoes are one of the best investments I've made. Light enough to swim and just high enough to stay on your feet when you sink in the mud. They dry right out so I jump right in at the boat launch vs balancing on the trailer. Find them off season or search clearance sale. With a bad knee they may just save your good knee. The are great if you are around water often.

https://www.astraldesigns.com/shop/footwear/unisex/rassler-unisex


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## richg99 (Jun 20, 2017)

Big spender that I am...I bought these, or something very similar, at Wally World for $40.00 or so. They do NOT dry out quickly, but I don't fish EVERY day. If they come apart in a year or two, I'll buy another pair. Best part was that they came in size 14, which we full-figured boys need! Ha Ha richg99

https://www.walmart.com/ip/KENTIN/21998449?wmlspartner=wlpa&adid=22222222227016123317&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=71312615448&wl4=pla-101649876048&wl5=9013689&wl6=&wl7=9013687&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=21998449&wl13=&veh=sem


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## surfman (Jun 20, 2017)

Years ago, I had a boat made by Dolphin boats called a skimmer, it was only 15’ long but was easily 5’ wide with a flat bottom and an aeriated tunnel hull. It was fiberglass and only weighed 600 lb. I had a 40 on it and it would run in 4” no problem, the prop ran in the tunnel and was above the bottom of the boat. When it hit a certain speed, you could feel the tunnel let go when it started sucking air in the snorkel, the boat would actually lift up. It was a cool boat but, didn’t take rough water very good as you could imagine.


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## Bearclaw (Jun 22, 2017)

Rich, I recently saw where AK McCallums got in a load of factory seconds aluminacrat I think. Ad said deep discounts and boats were guaranteed not to leak. I have not ever heard of factory seconds boats until I saw that


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## richg99 (Jun 22, 2017)

Thanks, I also saw that adv. but promptly forgot about it. I'll check it out. thank you
richg99


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## Tinny Fleet (Jun 22, 2017)

I'm with the proponent of an aluminum semi-vee. They take more water than a flat bottom especially when the wind blows, don't dig deep on turns. Are lightweight so they float high, and if you get hung up are easier to pull off. With a nice jackplate, I reckon you could go daringly skinny, while staying high and dry. That would be my vote. That's where I put my money..


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## richg99 (Jun 22, 2017)

I presently own a semi v G3.VBW. It is heavy, but they do make some lighter ones.


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## Pappy (Jun 22, 2017)

If you want to run shallow you need to put as much square feet of hull on the water as possible and keep the weight down. 
This means go longer and wider but do not load excess weight in the hull. Several of the tins had tunnels built into them and this is the way to fly if you want to get on plane and maintain plane across the skinny stuff. These combinations do not take much horsepower to do the job and will be on plane in nothing flat if you keep engine weight down. Remember that every boat is a compromise and doing what you want to do means sacrificing in other areas. There are several Bayou area aluminum boat manufacturers I would check out. They have been there and done that already.


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## Crazyboat (Jun 22, 2017)

Not sure why no more yak, I've mentioned this option in the past and will leave it here just in case. Mokai Or Mokia is a wide yak style jet boat, comes with a small 4 stroke and runs about 15 MPH I think. Give me some time and I'll get you a link.

Short of that a wide'ish tin with the outboard trimed in will pop up on plane super quick, but then if the waters are that shallow, why not just walk?/Half joking.


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## Johnny (Jun 23, 2017)

Then, of course, is the alternative - - - cheap but efficient.
Easy to get in and out of with an ailing knee.




.


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## LDUBS (Jun 23, 2017)

Johnny said:


> Then, of course, is the alternative - - - cheap but efficient.
> Easy to get in and out of with an ailing knee.
> 
> 
> ...



Don't know his name but guessing he is definitely a bachelor.


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## overboard (Jul 2, 2017)

Found it Rich, cheap and just needs to be a little bigger and wider! :lol: 


https://d2zqzdyn2mziub.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/07085123/1.jpg


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## richg99 (Jul 2, 2017)

If I hadn't JUST bought (last Thursday) my semi-V Lowe 1756, I know that I would be all over that one. Not sure if I can afford the trolling motor super power unit, also, though.

richg99


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## overboard (Jul 2, 2017)

NICE!


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## Fire1386 (Jul 3, 2017)

very nice Rich.....


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## mrdrh99 (Jul 4, 2017)

Very nice sir!


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## LDUBS (Jul 4, 2017)

overboard said:


> NICE!



X2-- That is a good looking rig. If you don't mind sharing, what size wheels on the trailer? I can't tell from the photo.


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