# bearing question



## WhiteMoose (Aug 18, 2009)

Sometime last week I lost one of the grease fittings out of my trailer hub. I don't know weather it was before or after I backed the trailer down into the river a couple times this weekend. Do I need to repack my bearings or something now? I assume the hub filled up with water with the grease fitting missing.
Also, I can NOT find a new grease fitting that fits! Mine are slightly smaller then the 1/4" ones. I thought maybe the threading was different but it is definitely a hair smaller. Is it metric? If so, where can I get them? Has anyone else had this problem?

Thanks


----------



## jigster60 (Aug 19, 2009)

Zerk's carries metric grease fittings


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 19, 2009)

I couldn't find anywhere to order them online that didn't require a quantity of like 50 or a massive S&H charge, but I went to the local Fastenal store and they were able to hook me up with a 10 pack for about $3. 
What about water that may have got into the bearings? Should I do anything about it or just fill them up with grease?


----------



## jigster60 (Aug 20, 2009)

I believe I would take the whole hub off and see... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGDb83odXhU


----------



## CarlF (Aug 20, 2009)

If you had them full packed with grease, little or water may have gotten in.

Do you have the self greasing hubs that push the old grease out? If so, just pump out the old stuff & watch for water coming out and how milky the grease looks. 

If not, then probably need to pull the cover off & see if the grease is milky looking. If so, repack. If not, pop the cover back on, top off with some fresh grease in & away you go.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 20, 2009)

You don't need to repack.Water gets inside every time you put the trailer in the water.That's why you should grease trailers that go in the water a little more than a trailer that never sees the water.Bearing buddies are the way to go for a trailer that sees alot of water.I also use a grease that's a little more tolerable of water.Its blue but the name doesn't come to me right now but I'll look and post.Its the same grease I use on my I/O lower unit to grease the u-joints,blue in color.Boat trailers should use a grease thats different than cars since most of us don't back our cars in & out of the water. [-X


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 22, 2009)

I am by no means an expert but if you are getting water in you bearings then the seal is leaking. If you continually pump grease into the hub it will eventually come out of the rear seal hense causing it to leak. If you pump grease every time you go to pump out water and old grease that is bad. If you have bearing buddies just give the bearings a good coating of grease when installing then pump grease just until the spring starts showing a little pressure. You shouldn't have to grease any more unless the seal is leaking. 
If there is any question at all about water in the bearings take the hub off repack or replace the bearings. And very important clean the spindle where the seal sets and install new seal. This should be a totally sealed bearing system no grease comes out and no water/dirt comes it.

If you are having trouble with a bearing buddy or cap comming off, clean the hub really good where the cap goes and look for a small crack in the hub. If cracked replace hub.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 22, 2009)

So to make my statement more understandable.When you back your trailer in the water it could be as deep as 3 feet.Water creates pressure on the seal which isn't there normally out of the water.Those seals are not designed to take water pressure,just to keep dirt & water out while driving down the road.Lil John is right where you don't want grease to come out of the seal,but if you don't have bearing buddies there is usually air or some sir in your hub which water will eventually find its way in that's why I said you should grease a little more often & make sure the grease is water proof.With the water proof grease you shouldn't have to take the bearing apart other than once a year to clean & repack.

This is what I do & have been doing for 40 years & has never failed me.So I guess each to his own.


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 23, 2009)

If you'll read my post it refers to BEARING BUDDIES!!!! When you grease till the piston comes out a little it creates positive pressure so the water pressure dosen't get by the seal. No one is ever too old to learn or try something new.

Had the same bearings in my trailer for 7 years and no water. No failures. No taking apart.
but to each is own.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 24, 2009)

The wheel bearing grease that I use is Kendall super blu L-427.I also check my bearings every year.Better safe than sorry when you least expect it.


----------



## Loggerhead Mike (Aug 24, 2009)

if you fear you have gotten water in your bearings i would take the hub off clean everything and repack. it only takes 10-15 min for each side and a new seal is only a few bucks. I'd also recomend marine grease. the stuff is like gum when you compare it to regular grease, very water resistant


i always top the buddy's off before leaving the house no matter short/long trip since 8" wheels work them to death. I r&r them every 6 months to make sure everything is good. nuttin worse than a dead trailer on the side of the road


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 24, 2009)

I use a lithium grease in my boat trailer bearings to avert any potential water problems.

That being said, you do not want to mix and match random types of grease in your hubs. It's always best to clean out and repack with a specific type if you don't know what is in there.

I'm not a big fan of the spring loaded bearing buddies. I've not had a set of them yet that didn't fail at some point. Usually 2 to 3 years, max.

Most trailer manufacturers have gone to the type with the zirk that threads directly into the axle shaft and the hub is simply covered by a rubber cap. You can pull the cap and pump grease until the cows come home and completely fill the hub (and push out old grease or water) without fear of busting or jacking out your rear seal. The rear seal is not designed to have much positive pressure put on it. You can load one up pretty good by pumping a bearing buddy until you collapse the spring (which is what a whole lot of people do).


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 27, 2009)

Thanks for the help guys. So I took the cap off and started taking everything apart and cleaning. The grease looked more like mud then grease. The seals got all beat up trying to get them out, so I assume I have to get new ones. 
Would you all concur that these bearings are shot also? 












The 2nd picture shows the inner and outer bearings from the same wheel. The outer bearing is rusty and burnt looking and the individual bearings are loose and seem like theyre about to fall out. The inner bearing still looks pretty good I think. 
This isn't the wheel that I lost the grease fitting out of. I'm expecting that one to be even worse.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 27, 2009)

Those bearings are toast and just goes to show that yes, water does get inside bearing buddies. :wink: 

There's nothing water tight about most of them, especially the cheap ones.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 28, 2009)

That's why it's important to use a GOOD grease & inspect bearings once a year.Make sure you also replace the races that are still in the hub,they are probably pitted also.


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 28, 2009)

Indeed. And this trailer is only a 2004. I'm going to try to re-pack the bearings once a year. 

Do the racers typically come with the bearings when you buy them? They were a pain in the nutz to get out!


----------



## CarlF (Aug 28, 2009)

> That's why it's important to use a GOOD grease & inspect bearings once a year.



My trailer is a 1999 model. I took the caps off for the first time ever two months ago when I put bearing buddies on. My buddy who is a mechanic helped out. The grease looked fine, he couldnt belieive it! We popped the BBs on and pumped them full of grease and off I went.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 28, 2009)

Now that you've installed bb's... you need to check them more often. :wink:


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 28, 2009)

Another thing I noticed is that there is a pretty big difference in the seal quality from brand to brand. I first got some National brand seals from O'Rileys and messed them up trying to put them in, so I had to run to Napa to get some more. The Napa brand seals were a little more expensive but the rubber on the inside is much thicker and better quality then the seals I bought at O'Rileys.


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 28, 2009)

Quackrstackr said:


> Those bearings are toast and just goes to show that yes, water does get inside bearing buddies. :wink:
> 
> There's nothing water tight about most of them, especially the cheap ones.



I called Wesco boat trailers today and they said same thing I did. If you are getting water in your bearings, you have a problem and you need to fix it. It should be a sealed system. Also said most bearing buddies leak because people pump too much grease in them and blow out the seal in the back. If you add grease and top it off every time you go it will blow out the seal. Call anyone who deals with boat trailers and knows what they are talking about will tell you the same thing. Call around. We can argue this till we're blue in the face or you can call a professinal as I did and ask for yourself. You might just save youself a bearing problem on the way to the lake.


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 28, 2009)

Try this on for size
https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.bearingbuddy.com/why.html&ei=o4qYSqK9Gc2g8Qaj1qysBQ&sa=X&oi=smap&resnum=1&ct=result&cd=1&usg=AFQjCNH5_4mFAIm2R-9WwrK5DtMlxWiKQA


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 28, 2009)

This is a quote fome the official bearing buddy website frequenty asked questions. 

3. With Bearing Buddy® installed, how often do I need to repack my bearings? We don't recommend inspecting your bearings more frequently than once every 5 years, provided you properly maintain the grease level in the hubs, and your bearings and seals are in new condition when you install genuine Bearing Buddy®. The Bearing Buddy® system maintains a constant pressure of 3 p.s.i. on the grease inside the hub. Since the hub is always full of grease (with proper maintenance) there is no need to repack your bearings. Some customers have reported that their Bearing Buddy® units were removed for the first time after 10 to 15 years of use, and the bearings still looked like new. 

Another
2. What can cause a Bearing Buddy® to fall out of the hub? The most common reason is the hub bore diameter is wrong, because the hub manufacturer did not maintain quality control during production. Other possible reasons are listed below. 

The spindle may be too long, which could cause the nut or cotter pin on the end of the spindle to push against the Bearing Buddy® piston (when grease level is low), eventually forcing it out of the hub. 
Excessive removal and reinstallation of a Bearing Buddy® can wear down the Bearing Buddy® shoulder (the part that fits into the hub), which decreases the interference fit between the Bearing Buddy® shoulder and the hub bore. 
An out-of-balance tire and/or incorrect bearing torque can cause excessive "wheel play" or wobbling, which can cause a Bearing Buddy® to work its way out of the hub. 
Installing the wrong size Bearing Buddy® for the hub bore diameter. 
Theft.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 29, 2009)

You people have to remember that the professionals are in a business to make money & will tell the public what they want to here.(Some of it is truth,you just have to figure out what)They are NOT going to discredit there product.Some times people just have to use their own common sense, experience,& what works for them type of attitude.This is now, not the good old days when most people where honest.Its good to get professionals thoughts,but I don't always take it to the bank.

A good example is us, the people, bailing out the car manufacturers, presidents that lie,what happened to good old American know how.

I realize, some of you, this is the first time you've done some of this,but be careful on what you do,not who you listen too.

Sometimes things can get OVER analyzed.(Too much information)


Sorry for the rant but I hope people will open there eyes & think before they act on there decisions



PS I am not discrediting anything anybody has said on this subject(wheel bearings)


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 29, 2009)

Lil Jon said:


> Quackrstackr said:
> 
> 
> > Those bearings are toast and just goes to show that yes, water does get inside bearing buddies. :wink:
> ...



I guess that's why White Moose's bearings look like they do. All of that fresh air from a blown seal kept the inner bearing looking like new and the outer bearing next to the bb was rusted and falling apart by shear coincidence.

I don't have to call a "professional". I've had boats with bearing buddies for 20 years and have dealt with this kind of stuff for a living for just as long. I guess you could say that _I am_ a professional. :lol:

While it's true that many people put too much grease in them and blow the seal, many brands of bearing buddies will let water in around the plunger. There are no if's, and's or but's about that. There is no rubber seal in a lot of them to prevent it. If my camera was working, I would show you a set of them that I have sitting right here to prove it.

Others have o-rings to seal against the piston but it the piston cocks a little bit from dirt or uneven spring pressure (they have to slide so there is a fair amount of play there), you just broke your seal and they will leak water like a sieve.

Just something to think about, but if a bb was a completely sealed system.. why would you need them? Their claim to fame is for ease of greasing the bearings without removing the hub. Where is all of that grease going if you don't have an inner seal failure? If you have a seal fail, you need to inspect and repack anyway.


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 29, 2009)

Ok,Ok I give up. If ya'll want to ride around with water in your hubs then so be it. If you think that is the smart thing to do. As for me, I'll keep mine sealed and no water. If I see water in there during an inspection I'll replace seals and or bearing buddy. I don't have a drop of water in any hub of my six boats (I checked because of this thread) and If I do I'll fix it. Ya'll don't have too, just keep doing what you have been doing if it works for you.


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 29, 2009)

Quackrstackr said:


> Lil Jon said:
> 
> 
> > Quackrstackr said:
> ...



He was putting the trailer in the water *WITHOUT A BEARING BUDDY INSTALLED
No cap no nothing.*


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 29, 2009)

Lil Jon said:


> He was putting the trailer in the water *WITHOUT A BEARING BUDDY INSTALLED
> No cap no nothing.*


*

Bunk..

He lost a grease zirk a week ago. That's not water damage from launching his boat a week ago.*


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 30, 2009)

Well then, wanta keep going ok this is geting fun!! If you are getting water in your hubs you have a leak you need to fix period. I'm not saying if you have bearing buddies you'll never have a leak. Things wear out that's why you inspect every few years. If you find water you know you have a problem to fix. When properly installed bearing buddies and seals there should be no water. If you have water in your hubs there is a problem to fix.


Quackrstackr said:


> Lil Jon said:
> 
> 
> > He was putting the trailer in the water *WITHOUT A BEARING BUDDY INSTALLED
> ...


*


If he lost a zirk he probaly has a regular bearing cap with a zirk fitting (don't know) If he does then this is why it had water in it. I am only debating bearing buddies. I know water will get in if you only have caps. I think I've mentioned this before.

WHY TRAILERS NEED BEARING PROTECTION 

Boat Trailers
Trailering, even a short distance, heats the hubs. When the wheels are submerged during launching, the hubs suddenly cool and the air inside the unprotected hubs contracts, forming a vacuum which draws in water through the rear seals. There is no such thing as a rotating seal that stays perfect. Water and grit thus drawn into the hubs relentlessly destroy bearings. When properly installed and maintained, Bearing Buddy® prevents wheel bearing failure and eliminates bearing repacking. Boat trailer wheels can be completely submerged.*


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 30, 2009)

I have a challenge. Prove to me that bearing buddies are designed not to be a sealed system and that water should be getting in your hubs and I'll eat my words. I'll print all my posts on this thread and eat them. Take some pics of me doing it so ya'll can laugh at me and say Ha Ha. Show me. I know you don't have to prove anything to anybody but I thaught you might like to see me eat my words. Heck I'll go kill a crow and eat it if you like.LOL


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 30, 2009)

If you (Lil John) would read what you wrote( When the wheels are submerged during launching, the hubs suddenly cool and the air inside the unprotected hubs contracts, forming a vacuum which draws in water through the rear seals. There is no such thing as a rotating seal that stays perfect.)I'll agree that bearing buddies push the water out but it won't keep the water out.
Everybody has opinions,just some are a litle harder to swallow than others
I'm through with this post


----------



## Zum (Aug 30, 2009)

I have a question,maybe I should of started another post but will see.
I'm pretty lazy,when it comes to my bearings,I have buddies as well.
I've put a few miles on each week for the last 3 years and never have repacked my bearings...probably bad I know.
My question(s) are,I touch my hubs to see if there warm after every trip,should that be a good indicator that the bearings are going bad?(probably to late?)
I do jack up the trailer and wiggle and spin the tires,everything seems tight,am I looking for big trouble?
I grease them,every once an awhile.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 30, 2009)

I do about the same thing you do.I have had no problem so unless you have some weird thing happen I would say you are good to go.As I stated in a previous post just use a good grease.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 30, 2009)

Lil John, my camera bit the dust last week or I could show you pretty quickly how water can get into a bearing buddy with the two I have sitting on my desk. In a perfect world, it won't happen. We all know that we don't live in one of those. I've already explained to you how the water can get in there through the bb but even their own words from their site are telling you that water will get into your bearings, even with bb's installed. =D> For the record, all bb type products have a grease zirk. That's the little nipple looking thing that you hook your grease gun to..... :wink: 



Zum said:


> My question(s) are,I touch my hubs to see if there warm after every trip,should that be a good indicator that the bearings are going bad?(probably to late?)
> I do jack up the trailer and wiggle and spin the tires,everything seems tight,am I looking for big trouble?



Zum, if you ever get excessive heat on your hub, your bearing has probably already started to come apart.

Without pulling the hubs, it's really hard to tell what kind of shape your bearings are in but you can get some indicator by just removing the bb and looking at the condition of your grease. If it doesn't look like it did when it came out of the grease gun, chances are the bearings need to be cleaned and repacked.


----------



## Lil Jon (Aug 30, 2009)

Zum said:


> I have a question,maybe I should of started another post but will see.
> I'm pretty lazy,when it comes to my bearings,I have buddies as well.
> I've put a few miles on each week for the last 3 years and never have repacked my bearings...probably bad I know.
> My question(s) are,I touch my hubs to see if there warm after every trip,should that be a good indicator that the bearings are going bad?(probably to late?)
> ...




That's pretty much what I do too. Heat will be a good indicater something is wrong.


----------



## Zum (Aug 30, 2009)

My hubs,axle and buddies aren't even getting warm.
I was just wondering if I should repack them regardless.
I wish i had a garage to work in....again being lazy.
I should take a look this year.


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 30, 2009)

I didn't mean to start any big arguments, but this is turning into an informative thread. This is what I have. Not bearing buddies, just the plain old cap with the grease fitting on the end. I agree that the bearing damage was done well before I lost one of the grease fittings. I believe I will be upgrading to bearing buddies though because obviously these aren't working like they should.






Last night after I pulled out of the water, I gave them a couple more shots of grease and on one side, grease pushed out from around the cap. :shock: I crawled underneath to look at the inside and couldn't see anything coming out.


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 30, 2009)

Mine get hot. I pulled off the interstate after about 30 min. of 70 mph driving to check them out and I could have almost cooked eggs on them. This was after repacking them the night before.


----------



## Zum (Aug 30, 2009)

Thats not good,shouldn't happen.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 30, 2009)

That should most definitely not be happening. You didn't perchance overtighten the castle nut that holds the hub on, did you?


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 30, 2009)

I tightened the castle nuts until they stopped, then backed off about 1/2 a turn until I could spin the wheels w/out resistance.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Aug 31, 2009)

If your hub was that hot the grease turned to liquid.If its in there yet(the grease),I'm not sure unless you look.I'm thinking something must have been done wrong maybe.I would pull each wheel apart & inspect & let us know what you find or pics are better yet.Relook at your seals,they may be toast also.
The way you explained I don't believe you over tightened the bearings.When you first put your bearing together if your not familiar with doing this you should check after only a couple of miles down the road
.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 31, 2009)

crazymanme2 said:


> If your hub was that hot the grease turned to liquid.



Agreed.

If your hubs got that hot, you need to pull the whole thing apart again, clean and repack. You may have heat damage to your new bearings.

I am assuming that you did but I am going to ask anyway.... you did change the races out in the hubs when you installed the new bearings?


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 31, 2009)

Yes, I replaced the racers. I pretty much followed the steps shown in this video- [youtube]HsCH1d6R7J0[/youtube]

I will pick up new seals tonight and check things out. :x


----------



## CarlF (Aug 31, 2009)

> Mine get hot. I pulled off the interstate after about 30 min. of 70 mph driving to check them out and I could have almost cooked eggs on them.



Damn, you are lucky you made it home. Definately something very wrong, I make the same trip with my trailer & the hubs are barely warm to the touch.


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 31, 2009)

Took the caps off and they are still full of grease, but as you can see by the color of the grease, water has already gotten in. I'm at a loss at what to do now. Get bearing buddies and try repacking them again I guess. :x


----------



## Quackrstackr (Aug 31, 2009)

If your cap was letting grease out when you tried to add more, there's your leak path for water unless your rear seal is not square to your axle.

Having grease heavily laden with water just makes the heat problem worse.

Did you check them and find how hot they were before or after you put the trailer in the water?


----------



## WhiteMoose (Aug 31, 2009)

They were hot before I even put the trailer in water. Is there a good way to tell if the rear seal is leaking other then clean everything off back there and pump it as full with grease as I can? In which case, it would be need to be replaced anyway, so I don't think that would do any good.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Sep 1, 2009)

Quackrstackr,your comment(Having grease heavily laden with water just makes the heat problem worse.)could you explain your logic there.

Water has nothing to do with heat.All water will do is rust your bearings if you have not been using a good water proof grease.By using a good grease I don't care if water gets in hub because the grease will do its job & when I grease my bearing buddies the water gets pushed out anyways.

The grease that I use doesn't seem to let the water mix with it like some of the other greases I have used & seen.
When I put a shot of grease in my bearing buddies only sometimes will a couple drops of water come out & that just a very little bit & I have had no heat issues.I believe the key is to make sure the hub is FULLY packed with grease so there is no room for water but not too much to leave room for expansion of the grease.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Sep 1, 2009)

The water cuts down on the viscosity of the grease and hampers it's ability to lubricate your bearings. If you're already having bearing/heat issues... water in the grease is going to make it worse.

If they were getting that hot.. the water is going to try to turn to steam inside the hub.

What do they clean vehicle undercarriages and grease traps in restaurants with? Steam.

WM, if there is grease on the back side of your hub (and it was previously clean), your seal is leaking. There should be no grease or oily film with good seals.


----------



## crazymanme2 (Sep 1, 2009)

This ending comment should pull you to the site that I found it on.

If you want to avoid water wash out use an aluminum complex grease with moly and it will not mix with water thus lasting longer and you ultimately don't have to grease as much and end up using much less over the period of a year and end up saving you money in the long run. Also aluminum complex will mix with any other base complex with exception to a bentone which wont mix with anything.

https://www.klr650.marknet.us/grease101.html

It also mentions about boat trailer bearings.


----------



## Quackrstackr (Sep 1, 2009)

That link says the same thing that I did in my first paragraph only his wording is much better and he went into more detail. :lol: 

The extreme heat/steam part of it that I mentioned is also relevant. Not only will it attempt to strip the grease from the bearings, it will create positive pressure inside your hubs possibly causing your seal or cap to leak. You can test this theory out by pouring a good dose of it into the crankcase of your atv or truck and watch all of the seals blow while driving down the road but I wouldn't recommend it. :lol:


----------



## Lil Jon (Sep 4, 2009)

If you are getting water in your bearings, something is wrong and needs attention. Water in your hubs is bad no matter what kind of grease you have in it. I would sugguest replacing the seals and installing bearing buddies. When tightening your bearings rotate the hub counterclock wise while snuggung up the bearing nut. Just snug it not tight. The hub should rotate freely with no noises or drag. This is how we tighten bearings on US Navy aircraft, and it works on boat trailers too. Best of luck to ya, and rember water, especially salt water in your bearings is bad.


----------



## Waterwings (Sep 4, 2009)

I always try to use the bearing grease that is Lithium-based, as I've heard it dissipates heat better, and is more water-resilient (for lack of a better word).


----------

