# 14 ft Starcraft Seafarer



## mmarz4evr (Nov 16, 2011)

Hi,

New to this forum and new to owning an aluminum boat. Thsi site has been really helpful so far. I just purchased a 1989 Starcraft Seafarer and conducted my first water test. FAIL! Not miserably, but definitely did not pass the water test. It appears I'm missing 2 rivets which I plan to replace. Also at the bow, theres's a very small drip type leak that is exiting right at the bottom of that thick patch of aluminum that is riveted onto the boat. I will attach pictures later but my questions start here-

1. I was going to purchase a heavy duty rivet gun to replace the rivets. Usually they have 2 handles and a bottle attached to catch the Rivet. Should that do the trick? Any suggestions on whay type of Rivets to use?

2. I'd like to coat the rivet in some type of sealant before putting pressuring it into hull for added security. What do you recommend I use for a sealant. I heard 5200, but I've never worked with it before.

3. For that small drip type leak at the bow, I'm figuring that's happening because any one of the rivets on that piece of aluminum could be leaking and be dripping down to the lowest point. I was thinking I'd try to re-set the rivets there, and use some type of sealant on the bottom for extra protection. What do you think?

Thanks.


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## LonLB (Nov 16, 2011)

You could re-buck the rivets that are in place and loose, and maybe even use solids in place of the ones missing.

I coated all the seams and rivets inside my boat with Gluvit.


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## seasprite (Nov 16, 2011)

A quick fix to repair the missing rivets is use the same diameter nut and bolt and washer on each side and smear it with a water sealer (3M) tighten it down,been holding on my boat for years. In fact it works better than a rivet.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 16, 2011)

that's an idea. I'm ok just getting the rivet gun and rivets. they dont seem to cost a lot of money and I'd actually like to start getting acustomed to fixing the boat this way so I'm more confident with future rivet repairs. i don't know much about the 3M, but I will look into that to coat the rivet before setting it. If anyone else has a product they can recommend I'd appreciate the input. 

thanks


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 18, 2011)

This is Tinboats.net right? No one else has a sealant they would suggest to coat a rivet before setting it? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!


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## LonLB (Nov 18, 2011)

3M 5200 pretty much covers it. You know you want solid rivets right?

As a general sealer, Gluvit gets used pretty regularly, like I mentioned in my post above.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 18, 2011)

I didn't, but I know I should be using either aluminum or stainless. In terms of size rivet I dont know that either, but I figured I'd just buy an assorted kit so I can figure that out.

Thanks for your help everyone. I'll post some pics soon. After I seal the rivets I'd like to do some mod work, if possible.


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## Jdholmes (Nov 18, 2011)

You aren't talking the cheap guns at home depot or the like are you? Cause that's not what you need.


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## moberg12 (Nov 18, 2011)

mmarz4evr said:


> This is Tinboats.net right? No one else has a sealant they would suggest to coat a rivet before setting it? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPfPryTRcY4


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 19, 2011)

JD- I'm not sure if the cheap guns at home depot are what I'm considering. I don't know what they sell there. I know im not looking for the gun, but maybe something like this:

https://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM4138108001P?prdNo=10&blockNo=10&blockType=G10

If you think I need something different please let me know so I don't purchase the wrong tool for this job. Thanks.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 19, 2011)

moberg12 said:


> mmarz4evr said:
> 
> 
> > This is Tinboats.net right? No one else has a sealant they would suggest to coat a rivet before setting it? Any suggestions would be great. Thanks!
> ...




Yea- i've seen this clip online. I'm figuring I can buy these parts separately and spend a lot less than 149.00 Seems a bit high, but it's conveinent that it's all put together for you and you can just store the whole kit away for when you need it next.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 19, 2011)

ok- so i think i've learned you can't set solid rivets without pneumatic air gun of some sort. Those are far from cheap. Does everyone on this site believe I have to use solid rivets? or can I go with semi-tubular or something else? I am going to coat the rivet in a sealant 5200 before I pressure it in, so i'm think that should do the trick- at least for a couple of years.

Your expertise is appreciated.

PS_ that nut and bolt technique keeps sounding better. lol


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## LonLB (Nov 19, 2011)

You can get solid, or "blind rivets" that you don't have to use a air gun on. If I had a link I'd post more info on them, but someone should see this and reply.

It's a pop rivet but the end is solid. Can be tough to use a regular pop rivet gun on I hear, but I have heard of some using them.


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## FSNMachine (Nov 19, 2011)

This is what I would use.

https://www.traxstech.com/Boat_Repair_Rivets.html


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 19, 2011)

LonLB said:


> You can get solid, or "blind rivets" that you don't have to use a air gun on. If I had a link I'd post more info on them, but someone should see this and reply.
> 
> It's a pop rivet but the end is solid. Can be tough to use a regular pop rivet gun on I hear, but I have heard of some using them.




They call them closed end blind rivets? I was going to try and use a heavy duty rivet gun vs. the handheld type. I have no idea if it will be strong enough to make it pop. Hopeful


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 19, 2011)

i think im going to try and spring for an air gun on ebay. my friend has a compressor. I know i'll also need a bucking bar. Do you have any idea what size Solid Rivet I should be looking for? What a pain in the ass. Can't find a kit. I'm loving owning an aluminum already


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## JeffChastain (Nov 20, 2011)

mmarz, take a picture of the rivets in your boat, and I'll try to help you figure out which size you need. A picture of the shop head (bucked side) and the dome head of the rivet. Rivets were my job for 3 years in the military. If your boat is like mine, you'll need size 4-3 rivets. blind rivets aren't what you need. As a general rule, the only reason to use blind rivets is if you cannot see or get to the side of the rivet to be bucked. They don't hold as tight over time as solid shank rivets. If you do not want to spring for a pnuematic rivet gun, you could go for Monel rivets, which are interchangable with aluminum. They are a softer metal that can be bucked with a hammer and bucking bar.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 20, 2011)

Hey Jeff,

Thanks very much. I will get a couple of pictures up tomorrow. What type of gun should i look for? I'd like to see if I can find a used one on ebay, then borrow my buddies compressor. I guess i should ask him what his psi is on the compressor too huh? It's only 2 rivets, but they are completely missing and i'd rather fix it right. Thanks. I'm sold on solid rivets being the solution since that's what they used on the boat originally.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 20, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> mmarz, take a picture of the rivets in your boat, and I'll try to help you figure out which size you need. A picture of the shop head (bucked side) and the dome head of the rivet. Rivets were my job for 3 years in the military. If your boat is like mine, you'll need size 4-3 rivets. blind rivets aren't what you need. As a general rule, the only reason to use blind rivets is if you cannot see or get to the side of the rivet to be bucked. They don't hold as tight over time as solid shank rivets. If you do not want to spring for a pnuematic rivet gun, you could go for Monel rivets, which are interchangable with aluminum. They are a softer metal that can be bucked with a hammer and bucking bar.




This ok for a bucking bar? Some of these get really expensive on ebay. I was hoping to not spend 100.00 or more on a bucking bar!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Rivet-Bucking-Bar-US-Industrial-Tool-Supply-Model-TP670-U-S-670-/220895353455?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item336e639a6f


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## LonLB (Nov 20, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> mmarz, take a picture of the rivets in your boat, and I'll try to help you figure out which size you need. A picture of the shop head (bucked side) and the dome head of the rivet. Rivets were my job for 3 years in the military. If your boat is like mine, you'll need size 4-3 rivets. blind rivets aren't what you need. As a general rule, the only reason to use blind rivets is if you cannot see or get to the side of the rivet to be bucked. They don't hold as tight over time as solid shank rivets. If you do not want to spring for a pnuematic rivet gun, you could go for Monel rivets, which are interchangable with aluminum. They are a softer metal that can be bucked with a hammer and bucking bar.




Wish you lived closer, I'd drive over and have you install some rivets for me, and toss some beer or plastics your way.

I need to instal 8 rivets and want to do them right because they will be VERY cosmetic (right on the side of the boat)


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## JeffChastain (Nov 21, 2011)

mmarz, that first bucking bar on the link. The one with the large offset and the skinny. I spent a majority of my time working with that one. That's what you need. As far as a rivet gun goes, any of them will be fine. The headset you buy is what is important. (The thing you put into the rivet gun that bucks the manufaturers dome head on the rivet) It'll be cupped the fit over the rivet head, and you use them according the size rivet being bucked.


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## JeffChastain (Nov 21, 2011)

LonLB said:


> JeffChastain said:
> 
> 
> > mmarz, take a picture of the rivets in your boat, and I'll try to help you figure out which size you need. A picture of the shop head (bucked side) and the dome head of the rivet. Rivets were my job for 3 years in the military. If your boat is like mine, you'll need size 4-3 rivets. blind rivets aren't what you need. As a general rule, the only reason to use blind rivets is if you cannot see or get to the side of the rivet to be bucked. They don't hold as tight over time as solid shank rivets. If you do not want to spring for a pnuematic rivet gun, you could go for Monel rivets, which are interchangable with aluminum. They are a softer metal that can be bucked with a hammer and bucking bar.
> ...



LonLB, I'd surely get after it for you if you could get it to me. Bucking rivets isn't so hard with a little practice though. Get yourself a couple pieces of scrap aluminum, drill holes in them both, put them in a vice and rivet them together until you get it looking good. That's how we learned in Advanced Individual Training. The main thing is making sure you have the rivet gun straight and secure to the rivet when you buck it. The shop head (backside) doesn't have to be that pretty.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 21, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> mmarz, take a picture of the rivets in your boat, and I'll try to help you figure out which size you need. A picture of the shop head (bucked side) and the dome head of the rivet. Rivets were my job for 3 years in the military. If your boat is like mine, you'll need size 4-3 rivets. blind rivets aren't what you need. As a general rule, the only reason to use blind rivets is if you cannot see or get to the side of the rivet to be bucked. They don't hold as tight over time as solid shank rivets. If you do not want to spring for a pnuematic rivet gun, you could go for Monel rivets, which are interchangable with aluminum. They are a softer metal that can be bucked with a hammer and bucking bar.


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## HOUSE (Nov 21, 2011)

Hey mmarz,
I used Gluvit to seal a leaking rivet on the inside that was too rusted to remove safely and it has held up really well. The stuff is amazing and sets very strong. Here's a picture of the Gluvit coating a small leaking nut/bolt that was rusted:






As to rivets, I replaced quite a few with a cheap $9.99 rivet tool from Home Depot and sealed them each with a silicone bathroom sealant and they are holding as well. Here's a picture of the first L-bracket that I riveted to the hull (after nervously drilling holes in my boat):





so far so leaks, *knock on aluminum*

-House


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## JeffChastain (Nov 21, 2011)

Go With a size 5 rivet.What you have in your boat are size 4. Generally it's good to go up a size when replacing a rivet in order to ensure a tight fit. You may have to drill the hole out a bit. Get rivets in lengths 3 and 4, as in not sure of the thickness of your aluminum. You should be good to go. If your able to get some scrap aluminum, get some practice in before hammering on your boat.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 21, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> Go With a size 5 rivet.What you have in your boat are size 4. Generally it's good to go up a size when replacing a rivet in order to ensure a tight fit. You may have to drill the hole out a bit. Get rivets in lengths 3 and 4, as in not sure of the thickness of your aluminum. You should be good to go. If your able to get some scrap aluminum, get some practice in before hammering on your boat.




Thanks Jeff,

I'm also calling Starcraft tomorrow to get the official size and i'll go one up. I trust what you're saying completely, but I can find any company that sizes their rivets 4 or 5. It's usually 1/4 or 3/16- stuff like that.


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## JeffChastain (Nov 21, 2011)

I'm sorry, bro. I'm used to the way we numbered things in the military. I'm having a hard time refreshing my memory, but I do believe a size 5 rivet is the civilians equivalent to 3/16. Our bags of rivets came numbered like XXXXX4-5, with the last two numbers being diameter, and length. I'd bet money that if you call a supplier, they'll know about how the military numbers rivets, and can help you further. I've been searching over technical manuals and the internet trying to find a chart to tell me how the military number system, and the civilian numbers relate, but I'm coming up blank. Sorry man. I tell you what, if I get a free minute at work tomorrow, I will call a couple of suppliers and try to get an answer for you.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 22, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> I'm sorry, bro. I'm used to the way we numbered things in the military. I'm having a hard time refreshing my memory, but I do believe a size 5 rivet is the civilians equivalent to 3/16. Our bags of rivets came numbered like XXXXX4-5, with the last two numbers being diameter, and length. I'd bet money that if you call a supplier, they'll know about how the military numbers rivets, and can help you further. I've been searching over technical manuals and the internet trying to find a chart to tell me how the military number system, and the civilian numbers relate, but I'm coming up blank. Sorry man. I tell you what, if I get a free minute at work tomorrow, I will call a couple of suppliers and try to get an answer for you.




Jeff- Thanks for you all your help with this. I went out there this morning and I believe 1/4 is the next size up from what I have. I purchased solid aluminum rivets on Ebay and went with size 1/4 x 7/8. I'm thinking th length should be fine because i have to get through the hull and a rib. If its a tad long I should still be ok. So now I have to find a gun and practice before going live. I'll keep you posted. Have a great Thanksgiving.


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## JeffChastain (Nov 22, 2011)

Alright, I checked for you today too, and yes, the 1/4th is what you'll need. Also, don't worry too much if the rivets are too long. I don't reckon you care too much if the shop head on the rivet is perfect. But, if they are way too long, you can just grab a sander, and sand the excess lenght off. Hope it works out good for you. Post pictures when you buck your rivets!


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 22, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> Alright, I checked for you today too, and yes, the 1/4th is what you'll need. Also, don't worry too much if the rivets are too long. I don't reckon you care too much if the shop head on the rivet is perfect. But, if they are way too long, you can just grab a sander, and sand the excess lenght off. Hope it works out good for you. Post pictures when you buck your rivets!




Great- Do you suggest an air hammer vs. pneumatic rivet gun. Those guns look like they are designed more for a blind rivet vs a solid- the attachements have small hole down the center. If you can send me an example of a the type of gun I should buy it would be of great help. That's basically the last thing I have to order. Thanks!


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## JeffChastain (Nov 22, 2011)

What you need is an air hammer. I have a bad habit of calling an air hammer "rivet gun". One like this will do the job just fine. Also, you'll want some of these. It is acceptable to buck the rivet with a flat set, but it is a bit harder to keep from pounding up the aluminum you're riveting into.


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## mmarz4evr (Nov 22, 2011)

JeffChastain said:


> What you need is an air hammer. I have a bad habit of calling an air hammer "rivet gun". One like this will do the job just fine. Also, you'll want some of these. It is acceptable to buck the rivet with a flat set, but it is a bit harder to keep from pounding up the aluminum you're riveting into.



that's perfect information. thanks very much. just need to practice this winter. lol


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## mmarz4evr (Jan 1, 2012)

Anybody have a suggestion on what type of wood I should use to replace my benches? I can't really make out what they used originally. My plan is to cover the benches with 3 coats of Spar and possibly carpet. Thanks!


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## mmarz4evr (Jan 5, 2012)

JeffChastain said:


> mmarz, take a picture of the rivets in your boat, and I'll try to help you figure out which size you need. A picture of the shop head (bucked side) and the dome head of the rivet. Rivets were my job for 3 years in the military. If your boat is like mine, you'll need size 4-3 rivets. blind rivets aren't what you need. As a general rule, the only reason to use blind rivets is if you cannot see or get to the side of the rivet to be bucked. They don't hold as tight over time as solid shank rivets. If you do not want to spring for a pnuematic rivet gun, you could go for Monel rivets, which are interchangable with aluminum. They are a softer metal that can be bucked with a hammer and bucking bar.




Hey Jeff- Happy New Year. Hope all is well. Quick Question for you- I tried a practice Rivet the other day- i have a 1/4 x 7/8 solid aluminum rivet. When i attempted to buck the Rivet, it was a lot tougher to get it to compress than i anticipated. I had the gun set with pretty good pressure, and it started to compress but I thought it should happen faster with less effort than it did. I'm thinking a. the rivet is to thick for the gun to effectively compress it. or b. the rivet was way too long for it to compress correctly. It was two thin pieces of aluminum angle and did not nearly give me a 3x ratio, The rivet was probably 5 or 6x as long as the pieces I was riveting together. Should I try this process again with a thinner shorter rivet? 3/16


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