# Pondering trolling motor battery selection



## crannman (Feb 20, 2021)

Hello folks!
Trying to decide on a battery for 12’ Jon boat with a Newport Vessels 62 lb thrust trolling motor.

Plan to use in freshwater lakes and rivers in fair weather, mild currents, winds on average of 15 knots and for up to 8 hours.

Anticipating running the motor on full for about 5 minutes to get to first fishing spot then on and off at low to medium with periodically anchoring over a period of couple of hours then full power for about 3 or 4 minutes to next location. Thinking I’ll repeat this process on average about 4 times per fishing trip until it’s time to motor back to the dock with whatever power is remaining at probably medium speed.

Contacted Newport Vessels and they concluded that a 75 to 110 Ah battery should work for the planned usage. 

Weight is a factor given the weight limit of the 12’ Jon boat is 440 lbs and gets there quick with 2 people and gear!

Looked at adding two (2) batteries which would be less weight to carry one at a time and combined would provide 110 Ah but, would rather deal with 1 battery verses 2.

Considered selling the 62 lb thrust trolling motor and getting a 36 or 46 lb thrust and lighter battery but I do like having the torque of the 62 lb thrust when needed! Just have to not run it on high for too long! 

I also added a bolt on Bull Nose Rudder Clamp to the motor shaft and it really makes turning a lot more responsive! 

Looked at lithium batteries but that’s out my price range. Plus, Newport Vessels cautioned against using lithium batteries for their motors because of the voltage. I don’t understand this fully and guessing it may overheat the electrical harness and motor? 

Narrowing down my choices to the following two (2) batteries. 

1. VMAX MR137-120, Group 31, 120 Ah, AGM
Pros: Good reviews. Plenty of power for intended use with a recommended average of 50% reserve. I have a battery charger for AGM batteries.
Cons: Weighs about 75 lbs. which will be a problem for me to lift in and out of my truck and Jon boat.


2. West Marine Group 27, 88 Ah, Gel 
Pros: Good reviews. My son in law let me borrow his and seemed to work good but the battery was run down at the end of the day! 
Read that you can deplete Gel batteries below 50% and not damage the battery over the long term. Weighs a little less than the VMAX, about 63 lbs. 2 year full replacement. 
Cons: Need to buy a battery charger for Gel type battery.

I’m thinking that I could maybe get away with the lighter weight West Marine 88Ah Gel and run it down more than the VMAX AGM? 

It’s a gamble being this battery costs about $400.00.

Appreciate your advice!


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## MrGiggles (Feb 20, 2021)

That AGM is really not far off from a lithium battery. You can get them for ~$500.

It all boils down to amp hours. A 100 amp hour battery will give you 100 amps for 1 hour, 10 amps for 10 hours, or any combination in between. Find the average current draw for your trolling motor and use that to determine run time on any given battery.


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## crannman (Feb 20, 2021)

Thank you for the reply Mr. G!

Haven’t had a lot of experience with marine batteries so I’m reading up on it and appreciate the your input!

My understanding is the amp hour rating for the trolling motor is given at max amps so I’ve tried to assess my needs based on usage.

My 62 lb thrust motor is rated at 58 amps.

So, I think for example if I use the use the trolling motor at say half speed then the max draw is about 29 amp hours and at low speed around 19 amp hours.

Trying to take the average usage for an 8 hour day of fishing and it seems like a 110 amp hour battery is what’s needed. 

I have to get in touch with Newport Vessels about their caution about the voltage in using a lithium battery. If I can find a deep cycle 110 amp hour lithium battery that’s less weight and not too far from my budget then I’d really consider purchasing it! Gotta be careful with lifting heavy things these days so it would be worth it to me for the extra money.

Continuing to look into it and thanks again for your reply!


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## MrGiggles (Feb 20, 2021)

crannman said:


> Thank you for the reply Mr. G!
> 
> Haven’t had a lot of experience with marine batteries so I’m reading up on it and appreciate the your input!
> 
> ...



I'm not sure why they have an aversion to lithium. Battery voltage is the same.

Unfortunately current draw for your trolling motor is not linear like that, especially if it doesn't have digital speed control, but your calculations will get you close. Running wide open at 58 amps would get you 2 hours, half speed for 4 hours, roughly.


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## InSaneFisherMan (Feb 20, 2021)

Keep in mind that each chemistry of battery, usually requires a specific battery charger. So in some case you will have to replace your chargers also.

I have a Motor Guide Xi3 on a 14’ mirrorcraft and use the EverStart 24DC, Not the best battery on the market, but for $70 it has worked great for me. 

$70
EverStart Lead Acid Marine/RV Deep Cycle Battery, Group Size 27DC:
12-volt marine deep cycle battery
750 MCA
109 amp hour


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## crannman (Feb 20, 2021)

Nice! Yes, I am also looking into upgrading my battery charger! 

Thank you for the information and reply!


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## crannman (Feb 22, 2021)

Reply received from Newport Vessels (NV) about the caution of using lithium batteries with regard to voltage for their trolling motors.

NV response: 
Similar to all other trolling motor brands, we also advise against using lithium batteries with our products. Lithium batteries tend to run at a higher voltage for longer durations (14-16V) compared to Lead-Acid batteries (13V). Trolling motors are designed to be used with batteries that output around 13V at most and then primarily 12V. Using a higher voltage can put wear and tear on the motor, as well as potentially damaging some of the internal components and ruin your motor.

If you are able to find a "12V" Lithium battery with the output rated less than 13.8V, this could safely be used with the trolling motor. Lithium batteries with a consistent voltage output of 14V or higher are not safe for reasons stated above. However, this can be difficult to determine, so you will have find the specifications of the battery or reach out to the manufacturer of the battery to inquire about the "Output Voltage". You will have to make sure it's specifically labeled as "Output Voltage" and not the "Nominal Voltage" of the battery. Many Lithium battery manufacturers will label their batteries as "12V" when in reality they output a much higher voltage.
NOTE: The LED battery meters on our motors and our Smart Battery Box will no longer be accurate for estimating the remaning charge if it is being used with a Lithium battery.


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## MrGiggles (Feb 22, 2021)

crannman said:


> Reply received from Newport Vessels (NV) about the caution of using lithium batteries with regard to voltage for their trolling motors.
> 
> NV response:
> Similar to all other trolling motor brands, we also advise against using lithium batteries with our products. Lithium batteries tend to run at a higher voltage for longer durations (14-16V) compared to Lead-Acid batteries (13V). Trolling motors are designed to be used with batteries that output around 13V at most and then primarily 12V. Using a higher voltage can put wear and tear on the motor, as well as potentially damaging some of the internal components and ruin your motor.
> ...



Interesting.

I wouldn't think an extra volt would hurt it, low voltage will kill a motor way faster than slightly high voltage, but they did manufacture the motor, and might know a thing or two about it.

This battery has listed min/max cutoffs at 14.6/10 volts. 

https://ampedoutdoors.com/products/copy-of-100ah-lifepo4-battery-in-waterproof-case


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## crannman (Feb 22, 2021)

Checking out this Dakota lithium as a starting point! 

https://dakotalithium.com/product/dakota-lithium-12v-100ah-deep-cyle-lifepo4-marine-solar-battery/


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## InSaneFisherMan (Feb 23, 2021)

If you are looking at lithium batteries, you may want to consider getting one with built in Bluetooth.

This will allow you to use an app and monitor the status of the battery.

As mentioned in previous thread, the voltmeters we use now won’t be much help in determining the status of lithium batteries.


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## crannman (Feb 23, 2021)

New to the lithium world of battery technology so I appreciate the tips!

Continuing to shop around on line and will also check for the Bluetooth option!

Thank you!


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## InSaneFisherMan (Feb 23, 2021)

Good news for Motorguide users.

We have recently gone away from battery requirements at MotorGuide. If you choose to use a Lithium battery, you may, and it will not affect your warranty.

Mercury Outboard Customer Assistance


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## InSaneFisherMan (Feb 24, 2021)

Not a battery expert, but this is some information on lead acid batteries that I researched for myself.

From my reading a deep cycle battery may recover from approximately 20 deep cycles. 

A deep cycle is when the battery capacity has been discharged 80 percent. But it is recommended to never exceed 50 percent.

If you have a lead acid batteries and a volt meter, the attached chart can help you determine the remaining capacity of the battery. Voltages are no load or resting measurements.

.5 volts difference between a fully charged battery and one that has been discharged to 50 percent. (On 12vdc battery)


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## BernieP (Feb 27, 2021)

Hate to add to your learning curve but there are different kinds of lituim battery chemistry. In my opinion lifepo4 or lithium iron phosphate are best suited to our use for trolling motors and onboard electronics. The battle born battery is an example of this type of chemistry. The are not suited for cranking big engines but the do very well for extended loads like trolling and running all your electronics. Plus they are very close in voltage when using a 4 cell battery. They do charge to a somewhat higher voltage but go to the mid 13 volt range quickly if not immediately. . Also keep in mind that when using lead acid its not good to pull them down more than 50 percent capacity a lot. Where with lifepo4 you can use 100 percent of the capacity without significantly degrading the battery life So you end up with a battery that lasts much much longer. This makes a lifepo4 batteries actually cheaper when you figure cost per cycle over the life of the battery. 

Also lifepo4 batteries don't have the giant exothermic (catching on fire lol) response to overcharging that other lithium battery chemistry do.

I built my own 150 ah battery for about 600 dollars last year and it came in at 30 pounds with the bluetooth battery management system. But that was ordering batteries directly from china and waiting a loong time. 
If I did it now I would probably go with overkill solar and just buy batteries and the 12v BMS from them. Located in the US and very responsive to communication and customer support.

https://overkillsolar.com/shop/

If you want to learn more there is a great forum over at DIY Solar in their battery sections. 

https://diysolarforum.com/forums/general-battery-discussion.72/


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## InSaneFisherMan (Feb 27, 2021)

Lithium batteries are a very good, but way overpriced no matter how the math is done.

$70, 100ah, SLA (sealed lead acid) in my travel trailer for 7 years until it was replaced.
$70 / 7 years = $10 a year.

Using some average Lithium batteries prices:
$400, 50ah, Lipo4 if used in my travel trailer for 7 years
$400 / 7 years = $57 a year

I would only compare a 100ah SLA to a 50ah Lithium because there is no BMS built in the SLA and because of the 50 percent debt of discharge on the SLA make it a much fairer comparison.

I don’t think the lithium would last 7 years in my travel trailer because the on board charging system is designed for SLA and SLA charging system are know for causing early failure in lithium batteries. Would not even think of upgrading my travel trailer charging system for minimum performance increase.

I personally plan on upgrading my trolling motor battery to lithium, not primarily because of price or performance, but with back problems the weight reduction makes it possible for me to get the battery in and out of my boat.

Bottom line is that if you are on a budget and manage the dept of discharge, the SLA is still a good choice.


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## crannman (Feb 28, 2021)

Lithium Battery Product Search - Group 31, 110 Ah for 62 lb thrust trolling motor 

Appreciate the reply’s received so far regarding lithium batteries! My search and learning continues in order to take a chance and purchase one! The question remains, which one?

Looking for a proven quality group 31, 100 amp hour lithium battery to connect to a 62 lb. thrust trolling motor at a price point of around $700.00. 

The previous posts have been very helpful! Thank you!

Learned that apparently ALL lithium batteries are produced in China so need to deal with distributors in the U.S.

My take in reviewing some of these batteries is that the casings look the same and the only difference may be the sticker for the brand name they stick on the front!

The warning I learned is that Lithium-Ion batteries and Lithium Polymer batteries are the most energy dense of the Lithium batteries, but they are lacking in safety and have been to known to catch fire! The most common type of Lithium-Ion is LiCoO2, or Lithium Cobalt Oxide. 

So my search is for a LiFePo4 type lithium batteries which appears to be a safer bet!

I also learned that you need to be careful with the cheaper lithium batteries as they may have a mix of older and newer cells that have a higher risk of failing early.

Another thing to learn is about the Battery Management System, the lithium batteries on board computer!

“A battery management system has to (1) distinguish between charging and discharging current limits, (2) dynamically control single cell voltage and temperature during charging and discharging, and give an early warning before disconnecting the pack, (3) allow interdependent or time-dependent cutoff levels, and (4) allow cell equalization (balancing).”
From: Encyclopedia of Electrochemical Power Sources, 2009

Man, there are a lot of different brands of lithium batteries out there!

There are many more than just the ones below that I reviewed but I checked out the following 26 batteries for price, reliability, owner reviews, options such as blue tooth, including a charger etc. and warranty process. 

Here is a summary of just some of the ones out there that I checked out.

ToBattery, eBay $498.00
Voltxcell, Amazon $589.99
Ampere Time, Amazon $569.99
LITHTECH, eBay $499.00
DUAL TRAK, eBay $559.00
SolarFam, eBay $649.00
BtrPower, eBay $565.00
BMS, eBay $627.94
Battle Born, Battle Born $899.00, Amazon $949.00
ICON, eBay $999.00
Custom Marine, eBay $899.00
RELION, eBay $1,050.00
Dakota, Dakota $899.00
Expert Power, eBay $699.99
Renogy, eBay $799.99
Banshee, eBay $950.00
VMAXTANKS, Walmart $799.00
Fly Power, Amazon $486.00
CHINS, Amazon $539.00
WEIZE, Amazon $549.99
SCREMOWER, Amazon $486.00
LYNX, Amazon $610.00
MIGHTY MAX, Amazon $599.95
AIMS, Amazon $749.00
Torque Power, Amazon $530.00
VoltXcell, Amazon $589.99

Looked at a few Best Rated articles and providing this recent one. 

Best Rated:
1. Renogy, Amazon $799.00
2. Battle Born, Amazon $949.00
3. Torque Power, Amazon $699.00
4. AIMS, Amazon $749.00

I think Battle Born and Dakota seem to be more established based on their web sites and reviews but are a bit out of my price range. 

So, anyway, I’m leaning towards purchasing from Battery Max. I emailed them to see what they have to say about their warranty process. 

I have not yet emailed any other lithium battery suppliers other than Battery Max to research their warranty and return process. 

Having to have the battery tested from like Advanced Auto and sending Battery Max to assess the warranty claim is interesting. If I read this right it looks as though I would need to pay to have it shipped back.

MIGHTY MAX BATTERY
WARRANTY POLICY
Limited Warranty is respected from the date of purchase for all Mighty Max Battery products.Warranty replacement will only be issued to and through the original purchaser. Replacement is not transferable. Warranty applies to products that are affected by faulty workmanship or materials.For all products eligible for the warranty replacement a print out test result is required to the Mighty Max Battery Customer Service Department to process and respect the warranty. The test must be done by a third party.Businesses that have performed the required testing on our batteries at no cost are: AutoZone O’Reilly Auto Parts Batteries Plus Walmart Advanced Auto Parts And any reputable battery retailerOutside businesses are not obligated to perform these tests on products that are not sold by them. Please continue your search until a business is obtained and will run the required test. Mighty Max will not reimburse any costs to have testing completed .
Acceptable Test Result	Not Acceptable Test Result
<img src="/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/warranty1.png" />	<img src="/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/warranty2.jpg" />
The following terms are only applicable to Sealed Lead Acid and GEL battery products. Other items (including but not limited to Lithium Batteries, Solar Panels, etc) is not applicable. Other rules apply. Contact us for more detail. 
Test results must clearly state that the battery is faulty. Results such as charge required and at home tests are not acceptable. Each battery must have its own test results/ticket #. You may be required to return the product at Mighty Max Battery’s discretion regardless of test results. 
Mighty Max Battery has the right to test and charge the product before agreeing to the claim. In this event the customer is responsible for the shipping costs. Mighty Max Battery reserves the right to make product changes without notification which may alter the physical appearance of the original ordered product. Any defects caused by natural forces, misuse, abuse, physical damage, improper charging, sulfation, improper application made by the customer will result in disqualification of warranty fulfillment. 
Mighty Max Battery liability in all circumstances shall not exceed the purchased price paid for the product. The end user assumes all responsibility for any and all personal injury and property damage resulting from the use, maintenance and installation of the Mighty Max Battery product. 
Please see below for specific warranty policies that apply to your purchased Mighty Max Battery based on the price per product: 

$1 – $50 (price per product) 
-1-year warranty 
-Testing results not required 
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs 

$51 – $100 (price per product) 
-1-year warranty 
-Test results are required 
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs 

$101 and above (price per product) 
-1-year warranty 
-Third party results not acceptable 
-Must ship defective product to Mighty Max Battery warehouse 
-Customer is responsible for shipping costs 

Other rules may apply to bulk orders, please speak to our Customer Service Department (855-378-7135) to determine these rules. Warranty time will be carried from the purchase date of the original product by the replacement product. A new product warranty date will not be issued for replacement products. Warranties will not be issued if products are carried or used outside of the United States.
RETURN POLICY
1. All returns must be phoned in for a return authorization number prior to shipment to insure proper handling of your return. All return authorization numbers (RMA) are valid for 14 days only. A processing fee of 15 percent will apply to the value of all merchandise returned for a refund.
2. Returns are permitted within 30 days from the date of receipt of merchandise. Returned merchandise will be accepted by us only if all conditions A, B, C, D and E below are met. Shipping and handling charges are not refundable. We are not responsible for any shipping and handling charges of merchandise being returned to us.
* All returns must include original factory box, original factory packaging (foam, plastic, wrappings, etc.) blank, unfilled warranty cards, all instruction booklets and paperwork. Do not deface original factory cartons or packaging in any manner. UPC codes cannot be removed the box. We will not accept a return if packaging is not in its original condition.
* All returned merchandise must be in its original mint and clean condition. Returns on damaged or scratched merchandise will not be accepted. Units that are defective may need to go back to the manufacturer for service directly and not be shipped to our facilities. If product is manipulated, return will not be accepted.
* All returns must include all the factory accessories which come with the item.
* Packages that are refused will be charged for the actual shipping cost both to and from your location unless pre-authorized by our customer service department.
3. Returned merchandise which is lost or damaged in transit is not our responsibility. Please insure your return with your carrier. It is your responsibility to file claims with the carrier upon the discovery of the problem.
4. Once your return is received and checked in you should expect to be refunded within 7 days. You will be refunded to the same method used for the purchase.

(break)

Further:
I was glad to have received a reply within a day or so from Mighty Max regarding product questions and the warranty question. I saw some reviews where customer support was lacking, surprisingly one regarding VMAXTANKS, whom I was considering when initially shopping for an AGM.

Given the cost to invest in a lithium battery I’m taking my time to try to make a good decision. 

Also considering the following:
- dimensions of the battery to fit my current battery box.
- Being able to use my current battery terminal quick disconnects. May need to buy screw in terminal posts to replace the M8 or M6 threaded bolts. What I don’t like here is always making sure the that the terminal posts are screwed in tight to avoid a problem and being careful not to damage the threads in the battery! Will probably use Loctite blue 242 thread lock! 
- Volt meter. Advised by the maker of my Trolling Motor, Newport Vessels, that the 5 dot LED battery indicator located on top of the motor control may not work with a lithium battery. I have a volt meter mounter next to my battery box and have to make it’s compatible.
- Make sure my current 60 amp circuit breaker will work with the higher voltage lithium battery.
- Cost of purchasing a battery charger made for lithium batteries.

Whew! Lots to consider! Thanks everyone for your review of the above posts and appreciate any further reply’s on the topic!


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## MrGiggles (Feb 28, 2021)

crannman said:


> Lithium Battery Product Search - Group 31, 110 Ah for 62 lb thrust trolling motor
> 
> Appreciate the reply’s received so far regarding lithium batteries! My search and learning continues in order to take a chance and purchase one! The question remains, which one?
> 
> ...



You might consider Valence batteries, salvaged from medical equipment. Pretty cheap in comparison, guys seem to have pretty good luck with them, using them in campers, solar setups, big boats, etc.

Since you want the batteries to be easily removable, using a heavy duty plug like this would be preferable instead of fooling with the battery terminals every time.

https://www.wiringproducts.com/50-amp-high-power-connectors

Your trolling motor battery guage will still work, but it will not be accurate since lithiums have a much smaller operating voltage range. You might consider a separate battery monitor, however many of the higher end lithium batteries already include expandable BMS, some even have bluetooth which allows you to view battery status through your phone. 

Separate monitors are pretty cheap though.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Battery-Monitor-80V-100A-Caravan-RV-Motorhome-UPS-lithium-iron-lead-acid-999-AH/184345745897?epid=6016586700&hash=item2aebdcd9e9:g:2dUAAOSw89lcozJm


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## InSaneFisherMan (Feb 28, 2021)

Just a couple of answers.

Trolling motor battery gauges, almost all are some form of voltmeter. They will still show the appropriate amount of bars based on battery voltage. Therefore they will work as designed. What has changed is they are not very good at determining the remaining capacity in lithium batteries, all bars lit may not be a battery at full capacity.

60 amp circuit breaker - this should be the lowest amp rated item in the circuit and I think has to be 6-10” from positive terminal. All wires positive and negative, connectors, switches, should be rated higher than the 60 amps. Pretty sure that lithium BMS protect the battery from over current, so if your motor requires a 60 amp breaker thats what you need.


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## crannman (Feb 28, 2021)

Got it! Thank you for your feedback!


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## InSaneFisherMan (Mar 2, 2021)

Just some info.

ABYC has recently adopted/approved a document ABYC TE-13 Lithium Ion Batteries.

I am trying to locate a free copy of this document to understand the requirements when I switch to Lithium.

I know as a small tin boat owner many of us customize our boat and probably exceed ABYC standards and some do not.

So using ABYC standard is the best to start.

From ABYC web site:
In product liability lawsuits, ABYC Standards are the authoritative reference for evaluating issues of design, construction, maintenance, and product performance. ABYC is the US representative to ISO, and works to promote the needs of the US marine industry in relation to ISO.


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## InSaneFisherMan (Mar 3, 2021)

I found, what appears to be a excerpt from TE-13.

Should vs shall seem to make these optional.

Interesting


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## crannman (Mar 3, 2021)

Final Decision!

Well, after reviewing about 26 different lithium battery suppliers and based on information here and Facebook Jon boat forums, I finally decided to purchase from Amped Outdoors. 

They seem like a solid company, their warranty process appears reasonably and customer support were responsive to my questions.

Also purchased the lithium battery charger they recommended. Felt that was a reasonable thing to do given the investment in this battery.

Expensive? Yes, but worth it to me having to lift a battery under 30 lbs. verses 70 lbs and if it lady’s as advertised then it’s about what I would pay in the long run for two (2) new 110 amp AGM batteries.

Decided to go with a plug instead of terminal connectors. Plan on using Loctite blue 252 on the terminal bolts and adding slippage lines as a visual installation to make sure they haven’t loosened up.

Will post some pictures of the battery installation when completed and performance after a few test runs on the water! 

https://ampedoutdoors.com/products/copy-of-100ah-lifepo4-battery-in-waterproof-case


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## InSaneFisherMan (Mar 3, 2021)

Nice, please post updates on how you would rate the performance.


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## crannman (Mar 9, 2021)

Received Amped Outdoors 100Ah battery and charger today!

Very happy with the weight! I can’t believe I can lift a 100Ah battery with two fingers waist high!

23lb 100Ah deep cycle lithium battery! The AGM I was considering weighed 70lb! Nice to have a 47lb weight savings in my boat! 

Battery and charger came very well packaged!

Currently working on wiring the plug connector.


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## LDUBS (Mar 10, 2021)

23 lb 100-Ah -- wow! That is 44 lbs lighter than my 105 Ah AGM battery. I'm jealous. 

Thanks for the thorough comparison of options. I don't know what drives the current pricing (no pun intended) but hope it migrates down by the time I need a new battery.


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## crannman (Mar 20, 2021)

Battery plug installed and compatible with lithium battery charger!
Planning to try out the new lithium battery set up next week!


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## jethro (Apr 5, 2021)

Nice choice, I had a great purchase experience with Amped Outdoors when I built my battery box for camping.


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## crannman (Apr 5, 2021)

jethro said:


> Nice choice, I had a great purchase experience with Amped Outdoors when I built my battery box for camping.



Thank you! Hopefully will get out this week to try it out!


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## Lost But Happy (Jul 3, 2022)

What a great thread! 

Any updates crannman? 

Do you like how it performs? Any issues with charging? 

I am currently looking at a new battery and charger setup for my new (to me) Lund C14. It will be an all-new setup and want to do it right the first time! 

Thank you kindly!


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## CRS (Jul 5, 2022)

I run lithium's for my motors and electronics, the 12 volt batteries running the fish finder and other steering and lifting shows input to the Solex10 as being 13.1 volts. Dakota lithium guarantees their batteries for 11 years and they include a charger made for their LiFePo4 batteries. At half the weight of lead acid types and twice the life, worth the extra cost. Keep in mind AGM's and lead acid should never be discharged past 50% capacity, it damages the battery shortening the life. LiFePO4's depending on whom you talk to can run to %80 0r %90 discharge with no damage and the voltage remains a constant 13.1. When I switched everything improved.


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## Lost But Happy (Jul 8, 2022)

CRS said:


> I run lithium's for my motors and electronics, the 12 volt batteries running the fish finder and other steering and lifting shows input to the Solex10 as being 13.1 volts. Dakota lithium guarantees their batteries for 11 years and they include a charger made for their LiFePo4 batteries. At half the weight of lead acid types and twice the life, worth the extra cost. Keep in mind AGM's and lead acid should never be discharged past 50% capacity, it damages the battery shortening the life. LiFePO4's depending on whom you talk to can run to %80 0r %90 discharge with no damage and the voltage remains a constant 13.1. When I switched everything improved.



Excellent, thank you CRS! 

Ill look into the Dakotas. I really only need one battery for now for the trolling motor. Once I settle on a FF/GPS, I may get another battery if it needs it.


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## screedler (Dec 7, 2022)

I'm really happy with my vmaxtanks mr127-100. I've never managed to drain it with my 55lb minn kota trolling motor


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## cyclops2 (Dec 7, 2022)

There are no Q C standards for Lithium batteries . with or with out B M S . So BMS ....CONSTANTLY ... remain energized even with no loads turned on. So some time later your battery is run down. That is now a known fact with some brands. Chinese standards rule. With almost every brand.

China controls 80 % of LIFE production. No body controls China in battery standards. USA companies want the cheapest cost. Boat friend has 2 of 6 new 100 amp units dead on arrival.


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## crannman (Dec 11, 2022)

Lost But Happy said:


> What a great thread!
> 
> Any updates crannman?
> 
> ...


It’ll be 2 years March 2023 and my Amped battery has been working great! Been using it with my 65 lb thrust trolling motors and have had plenty of power left at the end of the day. Really appreciate the light weight.


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## cyclops2 (Dec 25, 2022)

Lithium Ion ....IS NOT the same safety as a LIFEPO4 battery.


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## cyclops2 (Dec 25, 2022)

Any company can call their battery a LIFEPO4. And sell it with a massive profit.


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## thill (Dec 26, 2022)

In February, my neighbor was charging his new Lithium batteries for the initial charge for a solar system that he had just installed. He went outside to do something in his shed, and saw a shadow out of the corner of his eye. It was a plume of black smoke coming from his house. I happened to be driving by right then and I jumped out to help, but there was nothing we could do. Within 5 minutes his house was engulfed in flames. The above picture is real. It was crazy. Total loss. At least he and his dog got out alive.

NEVER charge batteries of any kind in the house is what the fire Marshal said, not lithium and not even flooded lead, because of hydrogen gas that they produce that can explode. The lithium batteries he had were SUPPOSED to be safe. I am now curious, and will ask him if they were LifeP04 or some other kind of lithium battery.

Either way, charge them outside.


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## Maineman750 (Dec 26, 2022)

To anyone considering Dakota Lithium, beware of the fine print in their warranty.....you must have the receipt in hand......my buddy had two out of three fail and they offered no help because he didn't have his receipt.....I saw that Amped Outdoors will go by the manufacture date if the receipt is not available so that is something to keep in mind


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## Learning (Dec 26, 2022)

thill said:


> View attachment 113126
> 
> 
> In February, my neighbor was charging his new Lithium batteries for the initial charge for a solar system that he had just installed. He went outside to do something in his shed, and saw a shadow out of the corner of his eye. It was a plume of black smoke coming from his house. I happened to be driving by right then and I jumped out to help, but there was nothing we could do. Within 5 minutes his house was engulfed in flames. The above picture is real. It was crazy. Total loss. At least he and his dog got out alive.
> ...


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## airshot (Dec 27, 2022)

This is a classic example of what can happen when a mistake is made !! Lipo's are SAFE....but you cannot make a mistake, if you do..it happens so fast your out of luck !! In the above case, the wrong charger was probably used, been around Lipos for many years, to go up that fast the wrong charger or setting was used to try to charge the battery. Cant blame the battery for human error, but we need to keep in mind, that any mistake made can be instant disaster !!! No worning, just boom !! They burn so hot and so fast you cant react fast enough !! Unfortunately there are way to many folks out there using these type batteries that always think " that wont happen to me"....!!


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## cyclops2 (Dec 27, 2022)

Any proof the human caused the fire ?

LIPOS are NOT SAFE !! Short the terminals ? Over charge them ? Charge at wrong current ? Fire alarm time. LIPOS are BANNED above a certain size in airliners & shipping trucks. 
LIFEPO4 is allowed to be shipped world wide.

I have driven nails into both common sizes of LIFEPO4. I have also overcharged LIFEPO4 to death. 
Never heat,fire or smoke. Go on the model airplane forums. LOADS of burned down houses from LIPOS.


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## thill (Dec 28, 2022)

Despite the fire, I'm still considering buying a lithium. 
But I'm definitely buying a specific charger for it, and I have a spot outside on concrete where I will charge it.


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## LDUBS (Dec 28, 2022)

thill said:


> View attachment 113126
> 
> 
> In February, my neighbor was charging his new Lithium batteries for the initial charge for a solar system that he had just installed. He went outside to do something in his shed, and saw a shadow out of the corner of his eye. It was a plume of black smoke coming from his house. I happened to be driving by right then and I jumped out to help, but there was nothing we could do. Within 5 minutes his house was engulfed in flames. The above picture is real. It was crazy. Total loss. At least he and his dog got out alive.
> ...



I'm glad they were safe but this is still incredibly sad. I hate seeing folks have to go through stuff like this.


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## airshot (Dec 28, 2022)

Just read a few articles on lipo and lifepo4 batteries...while similiar the lifepo4 seems to be an improved model (without going thru a long chemical explanation) of a lipo battery. Lifepo4 makes less voltage per cell, so more cells are required to reach the 12.8 volts for 12 volt systems. That makes the battery heavier and larger than a lipo, but the advanced lifepo4 does have a much larger charge/ discharge cycle, over twice as many cycles as a lipo. The lifepo4 is also a safer charging system, not as dangerous as a lipo, lifepo4 are much more forgiving than a lipo. The lifepo4 are considerably more expensive, larger, heavier than a lipo, but much lighter, with a longer discharge cycle than any lead acid. Lipo's are great, less expensive and pack more of an electrical punch than any other battery but great care must be taken to be sure NO mistakes are made in their care and handling!!! Lifepo4 are newer improved lipo type battery, but larger and heavier, but much safer and more forgiving than a lipo !! Much longer discharge cycle but not the hard quick punch that a lipo gives, but far greater than any lead acid battery. In either case, a proper charger is a must, I would not rely on your motor to charge either, no matter what they tell you !! Either is much lighter than any lead acid battery out there, but both are much more expensive than a lead acid battery. Consider carefully how your battery will be used and how it will be maintained and how deep your pockets are !!!


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## thill (Dec 28, 2022)

I'm using a pair of 9AH batteries to run Livescope, but I'm really considering a 50AH LIFEPO4 for $149. Is this a good price? Anyone know of any better deals? It seems like it's not much more than a standard deep cycle, especially when you consider the cycle life, but this will be my first Lithium.


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## airshot (Jan 1, 2023)

thill said:


> I'm using a pair of 9AH batteries to run Livescope, but I'm really considering a 50AH LIFEPO4 for $149. Is this a good price? Anyone know of any better deals? It seems like it's not much more than a standard deep cycle, especially when you consider the cycle life, but this will be my first Lithium.


Many, many differences !!!! Read instructions carefully !!! The Lifepo4 lithium are the safest ones on the market right now, use the correct charger and dont make any really dumb mistakes, you will be good !! These have about 4-5x as many cycles availiable compared to an agm battery ! These have been designed to be user friendly and more forgiving for that "oops" moment. Been looking at them myself, my two group 31 trolling batteries are three years old, still work good but I know they will be giving up before long. The group 31's are almost 100 lbs each, a good 100 amp lifepo4 are under 50 lbs!! Good ones have 10 plus year warranties!!


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## cyclops2 (Jan 1, 2023)

Only problem with the new .....LIFEPO4 batteries ???? The companies are making rejects and not making quality units. Russian Roulette if you get a good one. DO NOT buy ones with a built in electronic charger. They have higher failure rates.
Buy just a battery with NO NO BMS Covered by he black top of the battery.


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## CRS (Monday at 11:47 PM)

I have used Dakota lithium batteries for 5 years and never had any problem, they are light weight (about 1/2 AGM or lead acid) this helps with small boats. Remember AGM and lead acid should never be drawn down past 50%, lithium ion can be drawn down 80% or more depending on who you check with without any damage and the voltage remains the same preventing low voltage damage. would suggest multiple batteries. Regardless of the type things go wrong, batteries fail unexpectedly. With 2 or more you will still get back to the dock. Cost of lithium is expensive layout but the double life 11 years and the ability to farther faster out weigh the cost in my humble opinion.


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