# Stopping plastic pollution at the source..nearly



## richg99 (Nov 24, 2018)

https://brightside.me/wonder-curiosities/good-news-australia-found-a-way-to-save-water-from-plastic-pollution-and-we-can-start-doing-the-same-650510/?utm_source=fb_brightside&utm_medium=fb_organic&utm_campaign=fb_gr_seen_everything&fbclid=IwAR3DPXRzuuxEg0PJdOT1NY_X2Nz3lCEJmqWQKQkAUk229JYlJ2hvpIyDuhk


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## LDUBS (Nov 24, 2018)

I like it. Simple & effective.


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## ppine (Nov 24, 2018)

Then you have to clear out the nets all the time. Very labor intensive and can cause flooding. 

We have to phase plastic out of modern society. 
Ocean dumping regulations needs to be changed and enforced by an international agency. 

Every remote island on Earth is covered in trash. 
Now there are giant piles of plastic 50 miles across floating around in the ocean. 
It is the last Frontier and we had better address these issues as soon as possible.


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## richg99 (Nov 24, 2018)

You are correct. Lots of different things have to be done to solve the big overall problem.

In the case of the nets, the article made it sound like the collected refuse could be recycled, perhaps at enough of a "profit" to pay the costs of pulling the refuse from the nets. 

As far as flooding, someone will have to be in charge and either dump the nets or remove them when a big storm hits. The nets would still be functioning properly 95% of the time.

Nothing works perfectly under all circumstances.


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## ppine (Nov 25, 2018)

I have seen people use nets and other devices to trap debris in irrigation ditches. The worst flooding is always caused by piles of debris. The plastic that is collected is worth nothing. Recycled materials get sent to Seattle on a truck and then sent to Asia on a container ship. They make stuff and sell it back to us. I am a retired environmental consultant. I do not recycle, because I have to pay for it. Leaving things like aluminum in landfills is handy in case we need it later. 

Ocean dumping is legal outside 10 miles in most places. We need to change the laws.


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## LDUBS (Nov 25, 2018)

I take the time to recycle. In our town there is no additional cost to use the recycle bins, meaning you pay the same fee whether you use the recycle can or not. In fact we get two large recycle bins and two large yard waste bins. 

To me, if we wait for the perfect solution then nothing will ever get done.


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## gillhunter (Nov 26, 2018)

ppine said:


> We have to phase plastic out of modern society.



Be careful of what you ask for. What would you replace it with? Just think about what your car or truck would be like today without plastics.

The problem is not plastics, it's us human beings. I've never seen a plastic drink bottle throw itself out of a car window. 

Irresponsible people are the problem in my opinion.


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## JNG (Nov 26, 2018)

Plastics are useful materials. Sometimes plastics are the only material that makes sense for the task at hand. However plastics have become the go to material for EVERYTHING because it's cheap. That is the problem. Too much reliance on a material that is difficult and costly to recycle. I applaud the effort with the nets but it will not work in the long run due to maintenance costs. I say fine the ever loving snot out of those who litter and make part of the sentence picking up litter (including businesses). Where I'm at big AG and business is the litter problem. Not so much people going about their everyday lives. It's nothing to see a garbage truck that dumps/hauls dumpsters driving down the road with a unsecured load blowing trash EVERYWHERE just for example. Farmers letting chemical jugs 'fall' off of trucks. Farmers letting seed bags blow all over kingdom come. ETC.


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## jethro (Nov 26, 2018)

There is a huge portion of the population that is recycling and has no idea that it's being burned or land-filled anyway. There is so much recycling material out there that municipalities are having trouble finding buyers for it. That problem will become worse and worse as our population grows and costs to recycle increase. I don't know what the solution is but I'd like to hear it.


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## JNG (Nov 26, 2018)

Jethro, that is so true. I liken a lot of recycling programs to feel good exercises.


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## ppine (Nov 27, 2018)

Platic bags and containers would examples of the types of plastic that we need to get rid of. I am not talking about eliminating them for long term use. 

Bottled water would be an example of hype sold for a $1 or more. Bottled water comes from wells, springs and taps. It is not much different than any other water. The containers end up everywhere. It costs more than gasoline.


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## richg99 (Nov 27, 2018)

At a recent BS session with fellow fishermen, the topic of plastic bags came up.

I commented that, when I go to the grocery store, I check-out and bag my items myself. The result of ten or 12 items is usually one, or at the most, two plastic bags. When I go through the regular check-out lanes, I go home with 6 or 7 plastic bags.

I understand that the check-out person has been trained to keep various items separate. i.e. open food items don't go in the same bag as laundry soap. Beer always goes in a separate plastic bag. On and on and that is how I wind up with 7 bags.

It seems to this old codger that the stores could SIMPLY ASK.."do you mind if we combine some of the items?". I would still wind up with 3 or 4 bags, because they wouldn't put the same stuff together as would I, but...... 
Sheesh....that is cutting in half the bags that they send home with me, that either get thrown out or have to go through a recycling process.

Simple solution....and simple to implement...if anyone in a position of power would listen.
richg99


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## LDUBS (Nov 27, 2018)

I often think that if something is really that bad, then stop allowing it to be used. I don't use them now but if plastic bags disappeared at the market it wouldn't be that big of a deal for me to bring my own reusable bags. 

I am going to admit I use a lot of bottled water. I pay about 12 cents/bottle including the recycle add on. I used to save the empties for the recycle redemption. It was kind of like paying for my haircuts I guess. But it became too much of a hassle so I stopped doing that. Now I just toss them in the recycle bin. 

Whatever the answer, I am pretty amazed at what our household of two people puts out at the curb every week.


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## handyandy (Nov 29, 2018)

I hate the styrofoam cups, containers, plastic bottles etc can't tell you how many I pick up when I wade creeks or fish local rivers. If I wanted to each fishing session could turn into just a litter collection. I usually manage to find a plastic bag that fill with crap. Upon getting home if there is aluminum I throw it in my aluminum scrap. I haul my scrap metal to the local metal scrap/recycler occasionally it pays enough to usually make it worth it. Granted all the metal I get isn't from my cans or crap I pick up I work on cars, tractors, engines etc pretty frequently at home so I end up with old parts that when I accumulate enough I scrap them anyway. So since I make a scrap run every so often I go ahead and throw almost every earthly thing I can into my scrap pile that is metal of some kind. The aluminum/metal from household waste doesn't add up to much, but I scrap it anyways since I make the trip regardless. 

We recycle our platic, glass, paper, and cardboard. In the winter a lot of the paper/cardboard I use to start fires since I heat my garage with a wood stove. It's about as if we need to go back to go forward glass and metals are easy to recycle well at least much easier than plastic. So almost seems as if we should go back to more glass containers to make reusing or recycling them easier. Frankly the throw away single use containers should go away. You want a gas station soda have a reusable cup or bottle to fill at the fountain. I'll admit I'm guilty of getting a drink at the gas station in a throw away cup from time to time. But when it comes to bottles I always try and just keep refilling and reusing the same water bottles/thermos's of mine. Plastic bags could go away not that difficult to either have paper or bring your own. At least the paper break downs easily, is easier to recycle or burn than plastic. I'm not saying all plastic should go away it has it's uses for more long term things like car components or other things that have more than a one time use life span. IT's all the plastic crap that tends to not get recycled even when thrown in recycle containers cause there is just so much of it, and there isn't a good easy way to recycle or reuse all of it. Metal is easy people recycle it cause there is some money in scrap. Heck in almost in any city I would bet you don't have to look long to find some guy going around in a old truck grabbing anything metal from dumpsters/garbage or some hobo with a shopping cart picking up whatever he can walk down to the nearest scraper. Heck I do it I keep all my beer/aluminum cans till I make my next scrap run. Heck when I pick up trash when fishing I throw any of the aluminum cans I find into the my aluminum bin when I get home. 

I also feel littering should be punished and taken more seriously, nothing irritates me more than seeing throw crap out the window of a car or dumping crap in the nearest no where ditch. The nets are good start to trying to keep crap out of where it shouldn't be, it cost money, but many places already waste tons of money on litter clean up street sweepers, city sanitation workers, etc. It looks like where they put the nets in if they fill too fast during floods the water can just roll over the top of the cement pipe they attach to. Not a perfect solution, but at least it's something. What should be done is for anyone getting a bunch of government assistance or unemployment those people should be made to be apart of road clean up crews to get it. If they don't want to work and make a living and want welfare well make them earn it since they probably haven't paid that much into with taxes.


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## LDUBS (Nov 29, 2018)

*"What should be done is for anyone getting a bunch of government assistance or unemployment those people should be made to be apart of road clean up crews to get it."*


You are gonna love this Andy. City of San Francisco is having a significant problem with hypo needles, trash, human feces, etc from the extensive homeless population. It is to the point that I actually advise people not to visit there. Anyway, the city officials, in their infinite wisdom, are considering hiring the homeless at $15/hour to pick up their own trash. $15/hr is SF's current minimum wage. Now here is a plan that really gives offenders a big incentive not to litter.


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## handyandy (Nov 30, 2018)

LDUBS said:


> *"What should be done is for anyone getting a bunch of government assistance or unemployment those people should be made to be apart of road clean up crews to get it."*
> 
> 
> You are gonna love this Andy. City of San Francisco is having a significant problem with hypo needles, trash, human feces, etc from the extensive homeless population. It is to the point that I actually advise people not to visit there. Anyway, the city officials, in their infinite wisdom, are considering hiring the homeless at $15/hour to pick up their own trash. $15/hr is SF's current minimum wage. Now here is a plan that really gives offenders a big incentive not to litter.



Another reason why I'd never live in Cali, no offense LDUBS. I'd visit there, but I couldn't ever live there. That makes absolutely no since, I could see them saying if you want the free handouts like food, homeless shelter housing, welfare etc that in order to get x amount of it you have to do x amount of prescribed work for it. We really should bring back the chain gang days too have more of the inmates earning their keep in prison so to speak rather than our tax dollars just getting wasted having them sit in prison.


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## ppine (Nov 30, 2018)

Years ago I went to Germany to visit friends working over there. Soon after arriving I borrowed a bicycle to ride to the village to buy groceries for dinner. I had a small collection of stuff that went thru the check-out. After I paid, the lady told me in German "here you go." They did not even have bags in the store. I wrapped the groceries in my jacket and secure them on the bike. I never forgot that. 

Plastic is everywhere now that people live. The best way to prevent all of that pollution that hangs around for 50-100 years is not to use it in the first place.


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## handyandy (Nov 30, 2018)

ppine said:


> Years ago I went to Germany to visit friends working over there. Soon after arriving I borrowed a bicycle to ride to the village to buy groceries for dinner. I had a small collection of stuff that went thru the check-out. After I paid, the lady told me in German "here you go." They did not even have bags in the store. I wrapped the groceries in my jacket and secure them on the bike. I never forgot that.
> 
> Plastic is everywhere now that people live. The best way to prevent all of that pollution that hangs around for 50-100 years is not to use it in the first place.



agreed wife and I tend to shop at aldi most the time no bags there. I will admit we are guilty of some plastic wast, but I try to keep it to a minimum of throw away plastic crap, mostly cause I hate seeing and picking it up all the time when I'm fishing and hunting on rivers.


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## LDUBS (Nov 30, 2018)

handyandy said:


> Another reason why I'd never live in Cali, no offense LDUBS.



None taken. We need more folks like you Andy or it will never change. Kind of like that old Joni Mitchell song, except instead of a parking lot we paved paradise and put in a homeless camp.


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## jethro (Dec 7, 2018)

When I was young, mom would come home with the groceries in boxes from the super market. Cardboard is an example of something that is very cost effective to recycle. Plastic bags are not, it's many times cheaper to make them from new material than recycled. But everyone wants a plastic bag because it's way easier to deal with.


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## richg99 (Dec 7, 2018)

I always thought that the problem with paper bags and cardboard was you had to chop down a ton of trees to make them. The trees, when living, produce oxygen and take out Carbon Dioxide. 

I might be wrong.


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## GTS225 (Dec 7, 2018)

Warning! Long post!
This is circulating the 'net, and is not my words, but seems appropriate for this thread.
Forgive me if it seems off-topic.

Roger


Being Green
Checking out at the store, the young cashier suggested to the much older woman, that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.
The woman apologized and explained, "We didn't have this 'green thing' back in my earlier days."
The young clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment for future
generations."She was right -- our generation didn't have the 'green thing' in our day.Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over.

So they really were recycled.But we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day.Grocery stores bagged our groceries in brown paper bags, that we reused for numerous things, most memorable besides household garbage bags, was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our schoolbooks. This was to ensure that public property, (the books provided for our use by the school) was not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalize our books on the brown paper bags.But too bad we didn't do the "green thing" back then.We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.But she was right. We didn't have the "green thing" in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throwaway kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry our clothes back in our early days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

But that young lady is right; we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used wadded up old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.But she's right; we didn't have the "green thing" back then.We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.But we didn't have the "green thing" back then.Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service in the family's $45,000 SUV or van, which cost what a whole house did before the "green thing." We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest burger joint.But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the "green thing" back then?

Please forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from a smart young person...

We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to piss us off...especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced know it all who can't make change without the cash register telling them how much.


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## richg99 (Dec 7, 2018)

Nice write up. 

But, hey, I remember doing almost every one of those things. Some parts of OLD are good.


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## handyandy (Jan 3, 2019)

Ha good write up GTS225. Some valid points like I've said to many people, in many ways we should go back in order to go forward. Such as many of your examples of back in the day when you had to return bottles to get reused vs the trillions of throw away plastic bottles we don't have a good way or recycling or reusing in many case. Outta go to returnable/refundable plastic bottles would prevent the broken glass that many people hate about glass containers. The packing material pisses me off too, so much plastic from plastic wrap, bubble wrap, and I hate the packing peanuts darn things always go everywhere when you try and get your crap out from the box it was shipped in with them. We may be an exception to our generation, but my wife and I only have one tv in the house. Granted it's a large 40" LED flat screen, not your tiny screen giant box tv. The plus side to the tvs the LED ones consume far less than the tv's of back in the day. I can agree it's pretty crazy for how short of distances people go at times that they always use their car. The diaper thing is another one, my wife and I are expecting we were debating on cloth diapers, but in our rural area it's hard to find any place that offers them. I know my mom used a diaper service when my sister and I were diapers that picked up the dirty ones and left clean ones. If we could find something like that we'd use it. Not sure with both of us working how much we care to be washing diapers all the time. Once again in many ways we should go back to how we did things in many instances in order to go forward, maybe go back with some modern advances made to old ways. 

Rich yes we cut down trees for paper/cardboard, but with so many things that use to be done on paper being digital now, paper use has been cut back a lot. That and paper and cardboard are one of the easier things to make back into paper or cardboard again. I'm not an expert on it but a lot of paper/cardboard comes from recycled paper/cardboard, and paper pulp made from waste wood, and farmed trees. Much of my cardboard/paper waste is now getting used to start fires and heat my shop. It's at least getting reused for something useful vs decomposing in a land fill. 

A different note I wish our government would be less worried about CO2 emissions and more worried about or waste.


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## LDUBS (Jan 5, 2019)

Plastic bottles are redeemable. But, back in the day we could take our empties to any grocery store. Today most people won't go out of their way to hassle with a recycle center, if they can even find one. Got to be a better idea out there just waiting for someone to come up with it.


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## richg99 (Jan 5, 2019)

Might be "redeemable" in CA. but not in many other States.

Economics drives many decisions. IMHO, unless a State decides to play Big Brother and force the seller/manufacturer to add a cost to the purchase, and then refund some or all of the additional cost when someone brings the bottle back in...it isn't going to be cost effective for a store to redeem and store the empties.

Redemption may well be the right thing to do, but most States aren't going to pass legislation that their constituents do not support. I do not know how anyone can force common sense on a society that throws way just about everything. 

I've read of some progress being made with new bio-degradable plastics. If "they" could perfect that, it would go along way towards solving the problem.


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## LDUBS (Jan 5, 2019)

Now that you mention I suspect they are not likely to have redemption value in most states. Even in CA, you can't return the bottles to the place you bought them. You have to take them to a recycle center and a lot of those have closed down. Nearest one to me is 9 miles and I doubt that the majority of my neighbors would even know where it is. 

For a lot of people even at 5 cents per plastic bottle it is just too inconvenient to take them in for redemption. For me the trip to the recycle place is like a free haircut every once in a while. 

BTW, I have 9 of the small plastic water bottles in my freezer. I toss them in the ice chest when I'm heading out and back into the freezer when I get home. Kind of like big reusable ice cubes.


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## richg99 (Jan 5, 2019)

At my TN place, we do not have curbside recycling. We accumulate plastic, metal, paper etc. and drop it off at a recycling center (no money/no refunds) about once a week.

In TX, we have curbside recycling.... but.... they CHARGE US for the privilege of having us separate our garbage for them. Most of us do not pay for the privilege, but rather take out stuff to recycling bins, available at most of the schools nearby. However, those bins have now disappeared, so we'll have to find another way to do the right thing.

They are just making it harder to do the recycling.


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## GTS225 (Jan 6, 2019)

In Iowa, we have a "bottle bill", that benefits all of us, at least in general. It applies to carbonated drinks, along with beers, wines and harder alcoholic drinks. We pay a nickle per container at purchase time, and get that nickle back when we return the bottle or can. Many grocery outlets have automatic machines that we feed the container into, and they're specific to glass, plastic, or cans. It used to be that the store took them in by hand and got a penny for each one. I assume that wasn't cost effective, so the machines were brought around. I suppose it's now the machine supplier that gets that cent per container.

We do have a limited number of recycling dumpsters around, and there used to be more, but a problem with those is that folks would dump everything there. It was not uncommon to see bags of garbage, furniture, and old tv's setting alongside the dumpsters, when they were meant for newspapers, plastics and metals. Now the dumpsters that are around, are monitored with cameras to stop the dumping.

Personally, I have a hard time agreeing with "required" recycling. 
My thoughts are that I paid for that package with my money, so it's mine to do with as I see fit. If a recycler wants it, then he should have to pay me for it, instead of requiring that I put more labor into rinsing and sorting, and they get the monetary benefit of my free labor. It's basic business, and I shouldn't be forced to do someone else's bidding.

If we really wanted to stop the plastic pollution problem it's just a legislative move away. Individual states can outlaw plastic containers entirely, or come up with a bottle bill to alleviate the issue. It will never happen, though, as big business will throw a huge tantrum over the packaging costs, and they have more political weight to throw around than the average citizen that will also bemoan the increase in everyday costs of the products they use.

Roger


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## LDUBS (Jan 6, 2019)

In Calif out of $100 million in CRV deposits collected, $46 million goes towards "administration" of the program, meaning a state bureaucracy that isn't very effective or productive. Additionally, the millions going to "consultant" type folks is astounding. 

In Calif, the amount of bottles actually being recycled continues to decline, meaning more going to the landfill. Not too hard to see that the system is not working too well. 

BTW, the bottle deposit in California is not a "deposit". It is legally defined as a "regulatory fee". Why you might ask? Well, because you can't charge sales tax for a deposit but you sure can for a regulatory fee. 

The whole thing is a bunch of fairy tale hooey in my humble opinion.


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## handyandy (Jan 7, 2019)

LDUBS said:


> In Calif out of $100 million in CRV deposits collected, $46 million goes towards "administration" of the program, meaning a state bureaucracy that isn't very effective or productive. Additionally, the millions going to "consultant" type folks is astounding.
> 
> In Calif, the amount of bottles actually being recycled continues to decline, meaning more going to the landfill. Not too hard to see that the system is not working too well.
> 
> ...



Thats crappy, I'm not for forced recycling, but the bottle bill type thing I would be for. I remember the summer I was in detroit it was kind of a good time when my buddy and I took our bags of beer cans to the store to the machine you fed them through usually ended up with enough money from it to go in and buy another case of beer haha. Indiana has no such thing at all I get money from my aluminum cans cause I take them to the scrapper whenever I haul off old parts and crap that have accumulated from shop work. I just get the scrap aluminum price per pound of whatever the going rate is. Around town I always see the less fortunate and possibly druggie people walking around picking up cans or anything else they can take to the scrapper in town. If plastic bottles had a monetary value to they would actually pick them up too idk. Interesting video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NK20t11He14


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## LDUBS (Jan 7, 2019)

That video is pretty sobering. Need a real solution, which will probably need to include elimination of some of this stuff like plastic grocery bags altogether. Maybe water bottles have to be a minimum of a gallon or something. I'm pretty sure smarter minds than mine can come up with the answer. The one thing I know is it will not be popular and there will be a lot of resistance.


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## richg99 (Jan 7, 2019)

When I go to the grocery store, I bag my own stuff. I come home with one or two bags. If I let the checker bag my stuff, I come home with six or seven bags. 

Some of the nonsense could be stopped with some common sense. Just ask..."may I combine your items?" Problem solved!


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## LDUBS (Jan 8, 2019)

No paper, plastic or cardboard boxes for us. We keep those light canvass bags along with one of those larger insulated bags in each of our two vehicles. Not really inconvenient at all.


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## richg99 (Aug 29, 2022)

Three posts from new "members", all in London, and all on the same day, and all for a three-year-old post. Methinks its the same poster with 3 identities.

I wonder what --it--has for us next???

richg99


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## Jim (Aug 29, 2022)

Gone! :roll:


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## richg99 (Aug 29, 2022)

I think one is still left.


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