# Duck Boat Accident



## moloch16 (Jul 20, 2018)

Seeing what happened to that duck boat in Missouri makes me not want to rip any foam out of my boats. Looks like the poop hit the fan quick without time to take action. I fish a smaller lake and feel pretty good about getting to shore within minutes, but I have gone out in the calm morning, and by the afternoon coming back and crossing the main lake to get to the ramp, things have gotten a bit sketchy but I keep going: "have to get back, got things to do" is usually what I'm thinking, maybe making a poor decision at the time :shock: 

Scary.


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## earl60446 (Jul 20, 2018)

I don't know about the duck boats but many commercial vessels do not have foam flotation. I will say this,
I have seen those duck boats in person up close and they are marginal boats and marginal vehicles, doing neither well.
I was at the dell's when some friends went on one of them, I waited at a bar. 
Tim


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## ppine (Jul 20, 2018)

Gross negligence by the captain and the owners of the company. They will be broke for the rest of their lives and maybe in prison. 

Duck boats are not seaworthy. Never should have left the dock. If they did leave they should have turned around. A tragedy that never should have happened. 
On another boat site a guy posted the requirements for being a duck boat captain. Not much needed to apply. It shows. 

We think these kinds of accidents occur in other countries.


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## moloch16 (Jul 20, 2018)

ppine said:


> Gross negligence by the captain and the owners of the company. They will be broke for the rest of their lives and maybe in prison.
> 
> Duck boats are not seaworthy. Never should have left the dock. If they did leave they should have turned around. A tragedy that never should have happened.
> On another boat site a guy posted the requirements for being a duck boat captain. Not much needed to apply. It shows.
> ...



Lots of assumptions made here. Duck boat captain could have years of boating experience. Thunderstorms happen all summer, who knew this one would have 60+ mph winds with it? We like to think we are smarter than this, but it can happen to the best of us.


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## Crazyboat (Jul 20, 2018)

We don't know if storms with high winds were in the forecast, it looks like the captain did a pretty good job keeping the bow into it but once it started hitting him on the beam it was over. People having put on life vests prior to abandoning ship may have contributed to the death tool, being unable to get off the boat. 

They didn't appear to be far from shore and there was another boat out there too, very sad situation for sure. We need all the details before we can judge them completely. I don't know what the capacity of a Duck boat is but they used to carry troops, so I'm thinking 30 or so isn't out of the question under the right circumstances.


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## KMixson (Jul 20, 2018)

From the news I am hearing, the captain was not driving/operating the boat at the time. He was on board but one of the hired crew was operating the boat. It looks to me that they were trying to keep the bow heading into the waves. Once they were swamped a couple times and the engine quit they would have had no way to keep it on that heading and it maybe rolled over after getting turned sideways. I was wondering if being an amphibious vehicle the weight of the undercarriage for the wheels might have had an impact on its ability to stay afloat in those conditions?


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## ppine (Jul 20, 2018)

In order to be a duck boat captain you need a high school diploma and little else. On the job training. 
Thunderstorms and strong winds were forecast all day. 
Not wearing PFDs is much more of a problem than wearing them. 
No one should get a free pass on this one. 
Criminal negligence.


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## GTS225 (Jul 21, 2018)

And now there's news of nine members of one family perishing in this "accident".
That company's out of business, or will be soon.

Roger


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## Jim (Jul 21, 2018)

Tragedy, I can't even imagine................


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## SeaFaring (Jul 21, 2018)

I haven’t taken a look in a while, but for a long time the Duck Boats in the DC area were the original WWII vintage ones.

Then I was in Boston for a wedding and the duck boats I saw were new builds. Broadly similar, but not ancient, and were USCG inspected IIRC. 

I just checked and in Boston, at least, you have to have a CDL/Bus license, a tour guide license, and a USCG Captain’s license. Part of getting a captain’s license is time at sea, so that’s probably the “on the job training” referred to. But I don’t think you would not be allowed to have sole command without a qualification. 

I guess standards vary though. A real pity. I’m sure we’ll find out more as time goes on. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Crazyboat (Jul 21, 2018)

This "tech" is 75 years old, life vests could have made the people stick to the roof of the "vessel" once it went under, making it harder to escape.

It's bad all around, weather reports had strong winds in the forecast, no way they should have been underway.

Very sad day indeed.


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## LDUBS (Jul 22, 2018)

We were on a family vacation last fall that took us through Boston. The number of these Duck Boats we saw while riding around that city is incredible. This is apparently a much bigger tourist business than I would have thought. 

The senseless loss is truly tragic.


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## ppine (Jul 22, 2018)

I disagree with all the comments about life jackets being dangerous and "sticking people to the roof." 
I am betting that the family that lost 9 members probably did not know how to swim or were very poor at it. Life jackets would have given them a chance. 
The roof is where the air is. 
I run rivers and no one gets in my boats without a life jacket. 
The fact that duck boat captain and the driver did not make people put on life jackets is a criminal act in my opinion. 
My life has been saved by PFDs more than once.


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## Crazyboat (Jul 22, 2018)

ppine said:


> I disagree with all the comments about life jackets being dangerous and "sticking people to the roof."
> I am betting that the family that lost 9 members probably did not know how to swim or were very poor at it. Life jackets would have given them a chance.
> The roof is where the air is.
> I run rivers and no one gets in my boats without a life jacket.
> ...


There is no question that me and my family would have been wearing a LV, that said it has been reported in past accidents that the very LV that are meant to save you contributed to many deaths back in 1999.

It is more of a canopy then a roof as I understand it, there are plastic windows which most likely closed to help keep water out, once the cabin was flooded it would be difficult to knock those plastic windows out, the minimal amount of air trapped in the canopy would soon be used up by 31 scared to death passengers that may not have even known how to swim, let alone save their children. Trapped, is trapped, it's one of the reasons military jet fighter pilots undergo training to escape from submerged aircraft.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/state/missouri/article215219170.html


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## KMixson (Jul 22, 2018)

Maybe if they removed the roofs or canopies of these boats the operators would be more reluctant to take the passengers out in foul weather? Have everyone wear a PFD at all times also.


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## ppine (Jul 22, 2018)

This is a boat forum. Some people, and many boaters seem to think PFDs are for children, old people or poor swimmers. 

We lose people at Lake Tahoe every year because they don't wear lifejackets. Last year a U Nevada footballer player from Hawaii drowned on a paddle board. He was 230 pounds and a waterman back home. The cold water killed him. We had a sheriff's deputy drown on duty with several people watching at Lake Tahoe. The guy fininshed his shift, stepped out of his patrol boat into a tender and went over the side. He inhaled some water and drowned in 8 feet of water with people watching. It goes on like this. When I go to Seattle I can watch cute girls in bathing suits paddling out into Puget Sound on paddleboards and half of them have no lifejackets with them. The summer water temperature is 55 degrees. 

If you are in a situation where a lifejacket is in your way, maybe 1% of the time you can take it off. On rivers a reversal wave with vertical convection means you have to swim out the bottom. 

So the "captain" decided to go anyway with severe storm warnings since noon. The "captain" was not at the wheel. The "captain" never gave the order to put on lifejackets. The story about lifejackets being detrimental was probably started by the owner of the boat company. 

Any outdoors person worth their salt carries a pocket knife. After a life with horses and small boats, I carry a Benchmade folder that is easily opened with one hand. Half the blade is serated to cut lines, reins, halter leads and definitely plastic windows in a duck boat.


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## Crazyboat (Jul 22, 2018)

ppine said:


> This is a boat forum. Some people, and many boaters seem to think PFDs are for children, old people or poor swimmers.
> 
> The story about lifejackets being detrimental was probably started by the owner of the boat company.
> 
> Any outdoors person worth their salt carries a pocket knife. After a life with horses and small boats, I carry a Benchmade folder that is easily opened with one hand. Half the blade is serated to cut lines, reins, halter leads and definitely plastic windows in a duck boat.


I suggest you re read if you ever read the link to start with.

It clearly states who said what with regard to the life jackets. and the story line starts out with Federal agency (NTSB)

Where you bring up "outdoors person worth their salt" comes from I have no clue. Are you suggesting that every one of these passengers should be carrying a knife, you do understand there was young children and even an infant on board this vessel right? Very few people are "outdoorsman" these days. Even I who grew up in and around the woods do not carry a knife on my person 350 days of the year.

I'm glad you would have survived, much as I feel I'd have done if onboard, most people are not prepared or mentally equipped for this type of situation, I'm fairly sure none of them were boaters.


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## ppine (Jul 23, 2018)

I never would have gotten on that boat. 
If 10% of the people on the boat had pocket knives and everyone wore lifejackets then 17 people would not have lost their lives. 
The idea that some Federal official thinks wearing PFDs is a bad idea is as shocking as the decision to take a duck boat out in high winds. 
The "water part of the trip" was totally optional. They just go back to the same road where they started.

It upsets me when so many people drown every year. Too many people still don't get PFDs and they don't dress for immersion.


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## Shaugh (Jul 23, 2018)

Lots of Monday morning quarterbacking isn't much help, but I think when the investigation is over they are going to look at the weight capacity for a duck boat. Imagine 30 humans on that little boat ? It might have been ok for 30 GI's that weighed 150 lbs each.... Modern humans are more like 250...... It's seems obvious from the clips I saw that the boat was grossly overloaded. Add to that the hard canopy with 30 big people trying to escape and you have a death trap... with or without life jackets on...


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## ppine (Jul 23, 2018)

The fact that people on a boat forum can't agree that PFDs are always a good idea is shocking to me.


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## LDUBS (Jul 24, 2018)

ppine said:


> The fact that people on a boat forum can't agree that PFDs are always a good idea is shocking to me.




Hey Ppine-- I didn't read the post that way. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say everyone would agree life vests/PFDs are a good thing.


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## bcbouy (Jul 24, 2018)

the damnable sin of indignant self-righteousness shows it's ugly face.i really hate armchair quarterbacks.it was a tragic accident.be thankful it wasn't you or your loved ones and save the blame for the authorities to decide.you weren't there.


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## ppine (Jul 25, 2018)

If we don't address the safety issues that were not considered in this event, we are bound to repeat them. 
I am not motivated by being right, I am motivated to help save lives.


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## turbotodd (Jul 25, 2018)

Ducks run out here often, different lake, same duck owners. I've ridden a few times and it's a blast. BUT....what I noticed was that safety was not the #1 priority, and IMO should have been. Can't say if the Branson deal is the same way, never been on those. Seen them plenty of times though.

I live not far from there. I know how the weather is. If you're on the water, "it comes out of nowhere". Ducks don't stay on the water for very long, what 15-30 minutes? That means the "captains" are on land often. Dunno about y'all but I check the weather...via phone...and there's plenty of cell signal in the Branson area to check it. My boat's small 15' tin, so large swells and more than about 35 mph wind is a no-no for me. If I know the weather's anywhere near, like even a hundred miles or so out, I ain't going to the water. I have been caught in a storm a few times on a lake similar to Table Rock, it gets dangerous-especially in my little flat bottom much less an amphibious duck boat. Weather is not to be played with if you are boating. Even the big freighters tend to try to avoid it if possible. I'm not pointing a finger at the captain...rather I'm pointing out that each and every one of us has a responsibility to keep an eye on our surroundings for potentials. The weather is one of them.

Some are saying that there's no way to have avoided this. Bull. I watched that line of storms pass through Central Missouri, heading toward Arkansas..and I was thinking to myself the whole time, man we need the rain here. And we got some finally, but there was a side effect...wind. Some trees are down on people's houses, etc. If the captain of the duck boat had been paying attention to the weather, he'd have known that there was a line forming about 150 mi to his NW, heading SE at about 65mph. Or perhaps the captain underestimated the speed of the oncoming storm system; or perhaps he thought he could make it back to short with passengers before the storm came. Don't know. Again, I'm not pointing a finger at the captain, or the company, just stating that obviously we can all look back and say "we should have done this or that differently". Also, at the time, we didn't know who the captain was...nor did we know what was going through his/her mind, nor did we know of the condition of the vessel that he/she was in charge of. There were obviously a lot of unknowns. The weather was not one based on what I saw on my phone app's radar (radarscope).

Tragedy. Local family lost a loved one. I'm sure the lawyers are all over the victims' families already. They're very aggressive and I don't like it one bit how they'll take advantage of a grieving person/persons in the way that they do. Been through it myself in a vehicle accident where I was hit and within 24 hours I had over FIFTY (50) letters from different attorneys wanting me to take legal action. No lie. The mailbox was completely full and the letter carrier was putting letters in a box, left them on the front porch for me to pick up after I got home from work. I still have the letters to remind me who NOT to use if I ever have to use an attorney.


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## ppine (Jul 26, 2018)

Thanks to turbotodd for the thoughts. 
I think this whole incident stinks to high Heaven.


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## ppine (Jul 30, 2018)

Lawyers representing the family that lost 9 members in the accident have filed a $100 million law suit. 
They cite criminal negligence for ignoring the weather forecast, not asking passengers to put on life jackets and then lowering the plastic covering making escape much more difficult.


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