# home defence shotguns



## bcbouy (Mar 5, 2012)

any recomendations on a model or brand? how hard are the pistol grips to shoot? can a light be installed on an 18.5" barrel ? i'm not too worried about recoil,i'm a big guy.i will also be bringing it into bear country while we fish/camp.i don't plan on busting the bank cuz i don't hunt. 12 ga. remington 870,mossberg 500,i hear the winchester is made in turkey,are the imports very good? never owned a gun (but have fired a few) so i'm not knowlegeable so any input is greatly apreciated.


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 5, 2012)

I've always like mossberg for shotguns. 

I had a nice five shot pump that was sawed to a nice handling length for hunting but I actually preferred my single shot break down style...I had it sawed to the legal limit (which where I used to be was 18" barrel)...for home defense or for grabbing some partridge from an apple tree it was a great gun!


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 5, 2012)

FYI, I personally do not like pistol grips at all. It's a shotgun...if you want a handgun get a handgun...which IMO is better for home defense anyway.


----------



## bcbouy (Mar 5, 2012)

handgun laws up here are really strict.can't take one outside the home except directly to the firing range and right back home.useless to me for camping security.if i have to ventilate a predator, worst case,i lose my PAL,and get a huge fine and forefit all the firearms i own.probably a ban as well so it has to be a shotgun.legal barrel length is whatever the manufacturer made the gun so the shorter/portable the better.i've fished rivers 50' away from blackbears before,but you never know...grizzlies are a different story.


----------



## earl60446 (Mar 6, 2012)

Home defense go with a 12 gauge model 500 mossberg or 590, forget the pistol grip, every expert I have seen says use standard shoulder stock. 590 is more expensive, 1+8 rounds I think. 500 only holds 1+5. Use bird shot / target loads in them, wont go thru your walls but will stop the bad guy. My mossberg has never failed to function properly in 30 years of range / hunting / trap / home defense.


----------



## po1 (Mar 6, 2012)

I'm using a The Remington model 11 semi-auto 12 gauge shotgun 1+4 picked up in 1928 and passed down threw the family to finally me. Has never let the family down and still gets it share of use hunting.


----------



## Jim (Mar 6, 2012)

I am Remington fan and have an 870 which is a reliable Pump action 12 gauge. I personally would go with a Remington 870 tactical and put a high powered light and a red dot scope on it

https://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/model-870-express-tactical.aspx 

And a Red dot type site (just for picture)

https://www.burrisoptics.com/fastfire.html


----------



## fool4fish1226 (Mar 6, 2012)

Jim said:


> I am Remington fan and have an 870 which is a reliable Pump action 12 gauge. I personally would go with a Remington 870 tactical and put a high powered light and a red dot scope on it
> 
> https://www.remington.com/products/firearms/tactical/shotguns/model-870-express-tactical.aspx
> 
> ...




+1 and you can dang there buy any aftermarket part you can think of for the 870


----------



## bcritch (Mar 6, 2012)

fool4fish1226 said:


> Jim said:
> 
> 
> > I am Remington fan and have an 870 which is a reliable Pump action 12 gauge. I personally would go with a Remington 870 tactical and put a high powered light and a red dot scope on it
> ...



+2 Big fan of the Remington.....


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 6, 2012)

I didn't notice you were in Canada...yea it sucks up there for gun owners. We just moved away last summer. Now I can strap a 1911 on my hip and walk down town all I want. Thankful for the 2nd amendment and state preemption laws.


----------



## Loggerhead Mike (Mar 6, 2012)

I own a mossberg 500 and 835 mag. Both have been great guns. 

Not a fan of any newer remingtons


----------



## bcbouy (Mar 6, 2012)

that 870 tactical looks like its a good fit for what i need.going to hit the stores and see how it feels on the weekend.


----------



## riverrunner5891 (Mar 7, 2012)

For my personal home defense gun I have a Mossberg 835 Ultra Mag 12 gauge with 3 1/2s and an extra full choke. I don't care who or what you bring, there is going to be a coffe can size hole in you if you get in front of that barrel. As others have said, the Remington 870 is an EXCELLENT gun as well and you will never have a single problem with it. I have one and love it for skeet shooting and just playing around, but I keep the 3 1/2 by the bed just incase i have to shoot through a wall or two  For defense purposes I prefer a pump over a semi auto...just because I don't need any malfuctions or jams when it counts. Also keep a Glock .40 subcompact in the nightstand drawer with 2 clips full of hallow points (incase there might be an army invade in the middle of my sleep). Some may call me paranoid, but with both those next to the bed I say, what the heck do I need to be parnoid about!


----------



## sixgun86 (Mar 7, 2012)

It's a lot easier to get around a doorway or operate in a confined space with a hand gun than a shot gun. Especially if you find yourself on the offensive. IMO a hand gun is the best home defense.

Also adding a light to your firearm can be a bad idea. Gives the bad guy something to shoot at, or see you coming, and requires the barrel to be pointed at what you are trying to illuminate which could be friendly. Same principle why you don't use your rifle scope for spotting. 

The winchester 1200 has a rotary designed bolt that has a locking lug to reduce stress on the chamber, very similar to that on an ar15. They were issued to replace the model 12 for military up until 1970. Very cool design. The Remington 870 is most popular choice for law enforcement and would be an excellent shotty. Not a fan of the 500 for business use but it would do just fine. If you can foresee yourself using this purchase in a rough environment I'd suggest going with a 590 as it uses all metal parts. The 500 has too much plastic for my taste. 

Whatever you do decide on consider an extended magazine, esp if you don't plan on leaving a round in the chamber. The add on tubes in the aftermarket come in both metal / plastic. Some guns from the factory already have these. There again, avoid plastic. You bust your mag on someone's head, door, car, etc. each round will have to be hand loaded. Also consider a side saddle to keep a variety of loads accessible. Make a clear distinction b/t plastic and polymer though. Glock good. Cheap chine plastic bad.

Most importantly beware of the penetration power of the round you choose and whats beyond your target.


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 7, 2012)

+one on no light...I think that's a bad call. Your eyes will adjust to the dark quickly enough and if you just woke up they already will be. A light let's him know right where you are and where you are coming from. I understand the idea that you may use it to blind him...which is a fine premise...I would suggest if you do a light get one with a thumb pressure switch or something of the sort and only use it when you have the enemy in your sights.

+ despite the strict hand gun laws up there I would still save my pennies and add one to your arsenal ASAP. Nothing beats the mobility and ease of a hand gun in close quarters. 

Also get some cuffs/zip ties - being from Canada I am all too familiar with the ridiculousness of their laws when it comes to protecting your home. You only want to shoot as a last resort because odds are you will end up in prison. I come from a cop family up there - father, grandfather, uncles...I am familiar with the crappiness of the Canadian justice system and the way it favors criminals. They have some insane 'like force' laws. 

If something ever does happen and you fire your gun the most important thing to remember will be 1. Do not say too much. You can easily incriminate yourself. 2. Remember and use the words, "I was in fear for my life."


----------



## riverrunner5891 (Mar 7, 2012)

I agree that a hand gun is very mobil and easy to use, however, I do not feel is the best self/home defense gun. A shot gun, to me, is the best because you can eliminate your target even at a bit of a distance, but without the worry of the round carrying too far. This is especially true for anyone who lives in an urban environment with neighbors close by. You do not want to put their life in danger while protecting yours. I am a firm believer in hand guns (have a ccw and carry every single day), but when it comes to home defense, I will reach right over my handgun for the shot gun if its available. Or how I prefer to do it...clip on my handgun for incase I run out of shells in the shot gun :wink:


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 7, 2012)

riverrunner5891 said:


> I agree that a hand gun is very mobil and easy to use, however, I do not feel is the best self/home defense gun. A shot gun, to me, is the best because you can eliminate your target even at a bit of a distance, but without the worry of the round carrying too far. This is especially true for anyone who lives in an urban environment with neighbors close by. You do not want to put their life in danger while protecting yours. I am a firm believer in hand guns (have a ccw and carry every single day), but when it comes to home defense, I will reach right over my handgun for the shot gun if its available. Or how I prefer to do it...clip on my handgun for incase I run out of shells in the shot gun :wink:



Good point...I did like my 18 incher...it has an intimidation factor as well, which in a country that persecutes law abiding citizens is important. 

By the way, RiverRunner - MO is an open carry friendly state. Do it up.


----------



## riverrunner5891 (Mar 7, 2012)

> By the way, RiverRunner - MO is an open carry friendly state. Do it up.



Jdholmes,
You are right we are open carry, but the crappy part is each city/municipality and even county feels differently about this than the State and chooses to allow or change the law previously set. I myself prefer concealed carry anyway as now instead of being a target (because they know I am armed) I blend in and get the suprise on them! Hope I never have to use it, but glad to know that I can at least fight back if I ever need to!


----------



## bulldog (Mar 7, 2012)

Best home defense shotgun - depends on what part of the house I'm in when someone breaks in. I'm a fan of my Mossberg 500 with the pistol grip. The mossberg has a loud action compared to my 870 or my Winchester 20 guage so I prefer that at times. Just the sound of shucking a shell will scare the crap out of most people. My favorite shotgun is the 870 hands down. I sleep very close to and carry my Kahr TP45 a lot so that would be my first gun I reach for if sleeping. Bottom line - my fiance thinks I'm crazy but if someone breaks in to my home they are not leaving the same way they came in. 

There have been discussions on it forever but IMO the best shell for home defense is bird shot. It won't go very far but still do some serious damage.


----------



## bcbouy (Mar 7, 2012)

i think i'd prefer a light as we have 3 boys that like to show up unannounced.that will probably stop when i tell them i'm sleeping over a loaded 12 banger :LOL2: a few years ago 2 junkies crawled thru the kitchen window when we were sleeping and stole the wifes purse,our minivan and some clothes.things could have gone really bad really fast. i wish i'd have woken up. i sleep with a full size kbar on my nightstand and its razor sharp.i live in a condo and don't want handgun rounds blasting thru walls so again,no handguns.i want something that will stop someone with 1 round.


----------



## FishingBuds (Mar 7, 2012)

Mossberg ChainSaw hands down!

Been around this block a few times with experience of choices, I have been working on the last 5 years to have a home defence gun with in reach for me at least of 15-20 feet.

Google it or YouTube it "mossberg chainsaw"

The handle takes off a lot of the recoil on your wrist, have one myself plan on two more soon, 400 bucks and worth it, has the door breach on it too, in case you have to shoot out of a locked room.!


----------



## Jim (Mar 8, 2012)

Yup I want one! :LOL2:


----------



## crazymanme2 (Mar 8, 2012)

A shotgun for home defense is way better than a handgun.Handgun___1 bullet,shotgun many.Your not going to miss.Any shotgun out there will do & on a tight budget consider a used one.


----------



## Jim (Mar 8, 2012)

crazymanme2 said:


> A shotgun for home defense is way better than a handgun.Handgun___1 bullet,shotgun many.Your not going to miss.Any shotgun out there will do & on a tight budget consider a used one.



I agree with this statement, but A gun is better than no gun for sure.


----------



## FishingBuds (Mar 8, 2012)

My reasons for shotgun home defense is 

1 you have a better chance of hitting your target under pressure. When your scared and nerves are all high up you can miss and when it comes to a scatter gun, there is a much greater oppurtunity(like that choice of word) to hit your intruder, as with everything you could over come your nerves by training, but all around a scatter gun can hit its target much better by me or anyone of my family members

2 less chance of over penetration, it's still there but way less, so it's a safety thing for my family. Don't want to have to shoot a intruder and take a chance to strike a family member in the other room. Yes they have special ammo for your hand guns for over penetration protection but again I will refer to my reasoning number 1 on this.

3 just the sound alone of ratchet loading a shell usually will discourage a intruder to go any further!

4 another reason to own another gun! Lol


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 8, 2012)

While I do agree with some of the points about a shotgun over a handgun - especially the intimidation factor (nobody should want to have to pull the trigger) and that especially for a Canadian where he risks real jail time if he does shoot an intruder....so I see and can somewhat agree with the view of shotgun over hangun...and it's what I used for a long time.

I do have to whose he what if, though. What if you have a family member that for whatever reason is close enough to the intruder that they would risk being included in the wide spray of a shotgun - especially a sawed off shotgun.

There are times when the single shot of a handgun is desirable. Of utmost importance is practice in the range...practice, practice, practice...nerves won't be as much of an issue when you are just as comfortable with it in your hand as not.


----------



## GTS225 (Mar 9, 2012)

I'm coming in a tad late on this, but might I suggest a Taurus "Judge". Five-shot revolver, chambered for .410 shotshell or .41 long colt. For a handgun, it's fairly massive, as the cylinder has to be pretty big for that shotshell, but I suggest it would be great for a nightstand security piece.

I can't say how Canada might view it, whether as a shotgun or handgun. (I suspect handgun.)

No matter what you choose, might I also suggest you load a rubber-shot round as your first charge. From a legal standpoint, it suggests that you attempted to use less-than-deadly force to protect your home. The rest of the rounds should be #7.5 shot, in all guages. I've read penetration test results that showed that even the "lowly" .22 would go through up to 2.5 layers of 1/2" plywood, but #7.5 out of a shotgun barely got through a single layer of 1/2" ply.

In your case, bcbouy, it might be the safest way for you to load it. I might suggest the first round of either a beanbag, three-ball, or "beehive" rubber round, followed by steel-shot, #7.5 round for the remainder of the magazine. (Three-ball round has three, roughly 3/4" rubber balls, and a Beehive being a shotshell loaded with a handful of rubber balls about the size of the classic .177 caliber BB's.)

If the sound of you chambering a round in a pump shotgun doesn't send the perp running, then you are legally covered with a less than lethal first discharge. If the perp keeps coming, then rely on that firearms enthusiast's saying of "I'd rather be judged by twelve, than carried by six."

Roger


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 9, 2012)

The Judge..those things are wicked...

I don't believe they sell them in Canada though.

Not a bad idea on the rubber rounds. I always want to be ready to defend myself, my family and home, but the last thing anyone wants to do is be responsible for taking the life of another...


----------



## batman (Mar 10, 2012)

this is what I bought.Not expensive at all,and reliable.

https://www.remington.com/products/...-870/model-870-express-synthetic-7-round.aspx


----------



## PSG-1 (Mar 11, 2012)

I've got a WW1 riot/trench gun, it's a Winchester M97. It has the barrel shroud, and even a bayonet lug where the bayonet from an M-1 Garand will fit on it.

But what I REALLY like about this gun, is that as long as you have the trigger depressed, every time you pump the action, it will fire, unlike modern guns where you have to release the trigger and pull again.


----------



## Kibby (Mar 16, 2012)

FishingBuds said:


> My reasons for shotgun home defense is
> 
> 1 you have a better chance of hitting your target under pressure. When your scared and nerves are all high up you can miss and when it comes to a scatter gun, there is a much greater oppurtunity(like that choice of word) to hit your intruder, as with everything you could over come your nerves by training, but all around a scatter gun can hit its target much better by me or anyone of my family members
> 
> ...




This is pretty much how I feel about it in a nutshell. Nothing beats a shotty for home defense. I have several. My favorite is my Remington 1100 that I rescued from a used rack at my local gunshop. It was pretty beat, but I rebuilt it using Wolff springs, and a Scattergun technologies mag extension. The whole thing has been recoated using Gunkote with moly, so it operates so smooth and slick. When fired, its like a strawberries and cream: You just cant get enough! 

https://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr220/pallymcgee/Rem1100007.jpg

Honestly, I am stoked to find this site. I love guns. As a machinist, guns are a natural for me, but I also love boats and fishing too. Its like having a great wife that lets you have your mistress live in the spare bedroom! 

Oh just one more thing about shotguns for HD: My Remington 1100 is a sweet gun, but for HD I say simpler the better, and a simpler weapon may save your life. Thats why my new project is a Stevens side-by-side 12 gauge. Point and shoot. Hit what you point at. More-complicated weapons like semiautos and pumps, and pistols with mags and lights and whatnot may not be the best solution if an intruder wakes you up and you are still groggy from sleep.


----------



## Jim (Mar 16, 2012)

Hi Kibby,
Great job on the restore of that shotgun. That gunkote stuff looks amazing. My father in law gave me an old dinosaur shotgun that is a bolt action and has a magazine for the shells. :shock: 

I would love to attempt to restore that thing to working condition.


----------



## Del Corbin (Mar 16, 2012)

bulldog said:


> Best home defense shotgun - depends on what part of the house I'm in when someone breaks in. I'm a fan of my Mossberg 500 with the pistol grip. The mossberg has a loud action compared to my 870 or my Winchester 20 guage so I prefer that at times. Just the sound of shucking a shell will scare the crap out of most people. .



500 with pistol grip here too. With the pistol grip all you've got to do is learn to let the gun recoil a few inches between shots. Hold it firm like a pistol and it will rack your hand and forearm bones. I like the 18" barrel with pistol grip. Very short gun.


----------



## Jdholmes (Mar 16, 2012)

Jim said:


> Hi Kibby,
> Great job on the restore of that shotgun. That gunkote stuff looks amazing. My father in law gave me an old dinosaur shotgun that is a bolt action and has a magazine for the shells. :shock:
> 
> I would love to attempt to restore that thing to working condition.



Wow, as would I. I have been into restoring guns since I was a young teen and my Dad gave me a beat up old 410 shotgun that he had as a kid...first thing I did was rip it down and start refinishing the stock.

I have done probably 7-8 now. My favorite was an old .303 British - dad bought 4 of them and gave each of us boys one and kept one for himself. It was beat to crap but I got it back to beautiful condition, right down to that pretty brass butt plate with a cleaning kit inside.

Love the oldies.


----------



## Kibby (Mar 17, 2012)

Jim said:


> Hi Kibby,
> Great job on the restore of that shotgun. That gunkote stuff looks amazing. My father in law gave me an old dinosaur shotgun that is a bolt action and has a magazine for the shells. :shock:
> 
> I would love to attempt to restore that thing to working condition.



Hi Jim, That KG Gunkote is great stuff, but requires a lot of care to apply. The gun needs to be totally devoid of any grease or other contaminants, and sandblasted with 120 grit aluminum oxide. The parts should be preheated before application, and again cured at (300 degrees?... bad memory). The result is a gun that is totally sealed against the weather, and if you are diligent to also apply the coating to the internals of the gun, you'll get a very slick action. I rebuilt an early-70's Winchester 1894 lever-action in 30-30, and redid the whole thing inside and out with flat dark earth gunkote, and it was an amazing transformation. That gun went from a rusty closet gun, to a very nice shooter. The guy I got it from, said it was in the cellar stairway of his grandfather's house for 20+ years. The gunkote gave it new life, and now its a decent addition to my collection.

I apologize for the lack of pics. I am working off a new PC here, and haven't loaded Photobucket yet. I tried to upload some pics I have stored on photobucket, but this site said they were too big. As soon as I get my stuff together, I'll post up some pics and also do some how-to DIY-type threads if anyone is interested. 

Also Jim, I think I know that old shotgun of which you are speaking. Does it have an adjustable choke? Is it a Mossberg? they made some old bolt-action guns like that for a few years. BIG walnut stocks, if I recall correctly, and heavy too. I had one in 16 gauge when I was a kid. My brothers GI Joes were not safe from the wrath of that gun!


----------



## Kibby (Mar 17, 2012)

Double tap.


----------



## Jim (Mar 17, 2012)

Without running down to the safe, I think it was a stevens bolt action 20 gauge.


----------



## PSG-1 (Mar 17, 2012)

Gun Kote is a decent coating for guns. I did a Mossberg 500, my SKS, and my Ruger 22 pistol in OD green.
I did my PSG-1 with black Gun Kote. 

This stuff is pretty much impervious to solvents, including really aggressive solvents like Butch's Bore Shine.
But as stated, the surface needs to be prepped correctly, such as bead blasting. Then you have to pre-heat the part to about 120 degrees, either by setting it in the sun, or in an oven, before applying the Gun Kote.

Once applied, you bake it in an oven at about 300-350 degrees (I forget the exact temp) for the length of time specified.


And on the note of home defense shotguns, I've been looking at one of those new AR-15-type shotguns, I forget who makes it, but I saw one in Shotgun News a while back. Has anyone shot one of these, or own one? If so, what's your impression of it?

On a final note, I'd REALLY like to have a "Master Key" on my AR-15. Basically a master key is kinda like an M-203, except, instead of a 40mm grenade launcher, it's a 12 ga shotgun, mounted under the barrel of the AR-15/M-16. 

But I think a master key is classified as an "AOW"...which means dealing with a mountain of paperwork, and the jackboot thugs of the ATF. I have friends in LE, such as DNR and DHEC officers, and I respect the job that they and other LE officers do. But as far as the ATF, I have nothing but contempt for them, and their storm-trooper/gestapo mentality. And from what I understand, if you have a permit for a class 3 or an AOW, it gives the ATF the right to come to your house any time of day or night _without a warrant_ and they can demand to see the firearm and the paperwork. No, thanks...I'll retain my 4th amendment rights. So, unless they do away with the 1934 NFA laws, I'll never own any suppressors, full auto, or anything else where I have to surrender any more rights.


----------



## Kibby (Mar 17, 2012)

Jim said:


> Without running down to the safe, I think it was a stevens bolt action 20 gauge.



Aha! Probably this one, then. I dont agree with his claim that its a "sleeper" for home defense, but its a dandy gun just the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPJYZ-IFGmo


----------



## Kibby (Mar 17, 2012)

Also, for you guys looking for a pretty impressive shotgun, check out the new Kel-tec:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPGT0JWqtFo

FWIW, this gun seems to have the best of everything. Shortness of length, high round-capacity, pistol grip, AND a shoulder stock. What's not to like? (Other than its made by KT).


----------

