# CraigsList boat = no title = no numbers = no HIN =



## Johnny (Jan 21, 2015)

in *FLORIDA*, I bought a 1236 Jon with a Bill of Sale only from the seller.

Just got back from my DMV Tag Office......
I had a Florida Bill of Sale (not notarized) from the seller.
Only "guessed" it was a Sears model. late '50s era, so I put 1958 as the year.
Also, filled out the *Application For Title* from Florida online forms.
guess wot - - - nooooooo problem !!
the DMV computer automatically issues a Hull Identification Number.
So now, I have _LEGAL_ registration numbers, a legal HIN, and a TITLE !!!

I have passed on sooooo many good deals on tin boats the past year
all because of no paperwork on the sellers part.
The one that really sticks in my craw was a 1653 semi-V flat bottom Jon
from the '60s era. Very heavy duty, really good shape, for $300.00. (with no title)

I guess the moral of my experience is to check with your DMV and see what
paperwork you need to legally register a tin boat with no documentation in your state.
I have heard some states are fairly easy yet others are a nightmare.
In my case today, Florida is very easy to get a registration as well as a title on an old Tin.


----------



## turbotodd (Jan 21, 2015)

Easy here too. Go to the DMV and tell them it was home made. No questions asked, they give you HIN for the boat and VIN for the trailer. Motors aren't registered here so you can put whatever motor you want on it as long as the fish and wildlife guys don't say anything about it when you get stopped.


----------



## Attwanl (Jan 24, 2015)

I got my boat in pinellas county fl.
It was going to be scrapped because no paper work....went to dmv, the boat had no HIN numbers. They told me that most pre-70's ( jon boat style )most likely didn't have HIN #'s.
So they issued me a set of numbers for the boat, and trailer since it was about three trailers made into one. It fell in to a home-made trailer clause. Bing- bang- boom, got a title for both.
It was pretty easy, didn't even want to see the boat.


----------



## Kier (Jan 24, 2015)

Kansas is pretty easy to get new numbers as well


----------



## Attwanl (Jan 24, 2015)

Pretty scary.....if you think about it. If somebody steals my boat, goes to dmv....says it's an old pre-70's and get a new set of numbers.


----------



## jasper60103 (Jan 24, 2015)

Attwanl said:


> Pretty scary.....if you think about it. If somebody steals my boat, goes to dmv....says it's an old pre-70's and get a new set of numbers.



Yea, it kinda makes you wonder.
I guess most states won't turn down tax revenue.
They probably view theft as a police matter and leave it to them to solve. :LOL2:


----------



## Johnny (Jan 24, 2015)

yes - after I got my papers for this old boat, the Tag Agent told me to either
stamp the new HIN into the boat in two places on the metal hull or get a metal HIN 
tag made and rivet it to the hull.
and thinking it could have been my boat that was stolen and retitled is scarey.



> They probably view theft as a police matter and leave it to them to solve.


I agree - Tax Agents would probably only turn in a very "obvious" attempt to defraud.
(AFTER they collected the taxes LOL)


----------



## lckstckn2smknbrls (Jan 24, 2015)

Get to know your states laws, rules and procedures before buying something you end up not being able use.


----------



## earl60446 (Jan 24, 2015)

IN Illinois, the DMV has nothing to do with it. The Dept of Conservation assigns Watercraft Certificate of Title to a boat, motors are not titled at all. Also the IL Dept of revenue gets involved by taxing the purchase 6% (memory serves). 
Tim


----------



## bridgeman (Jan 25, 2015)

Absolute nightmare in PA, I actually had the titles for the project boat and trailer that I purchased at an auction from an estate in Maryland. Thats not good enough for them in the land of taxes and entitlements... Ended up having to get an attorney to reopen the estate to get a letter of administration, evidently the morons didn't believe the guy had passed away


----------



## richg99 (Jan 25, 2015)

Texas isn't easy on trailers. I bought a trailer in TN. No numbers on it, but obviously not home made. TN doesn't license small trailers. The clerk in TX said the cops would confiscate it, and I'd never see it again. Luckily, I knew the seller and got my money back.


----------



## BigTerp (Jan 26, 2015)

I don't recommend this in WV either. Took me nearly a year to get my boat and trailer titled and tagged in my name. I had a title from the previous owner for the boat (but it was in his brothers name and he had signed the back but never got the title transferred into his name) and a certificate of origin for the trailer, which the PO had never gotten titled. The PO was very cooperative and felt bad that he didn't have everything lined up and did everything he could to get things squared away. But the WV DMV kept giving us the run around. We both thought the paper work he had was sufficient. I'll *NEVER* again buy a boat and trailer without a title ready to be transferred into my name.


----------



## cliff58 (Jan 28, 2015)

I have been looking into doing just what the OP did and was getting the impression Florida was a nightmare for folks with old boats never previously registered. What a breath of fresh air this is for me! I have figured out that different offices can give different results though, depending on how well the employees know their job. That's why I sure would like to know which office you went to, Johnny. Is it the one at 14035 West Colonial Drive?


----------



## Johnny (Jan 28, 2015)

*First of all, Welcome Aboard !!*

yea, the one in Winter Garden..... and actually, the lady has not had this issue before
and called her supervisor over to help and he walked her through the process.
I was really afraid I would not get the registration but I was only at the counter a total of
about 10 minutes or less and walked out with registration in hand and the paper title is
in the mail. Probably get it this week.
*https://www.flhsmv.gov/dmv/faqboat.html* and *FL Vessel Bill of Sale* will get you started.
If you have a boat that you want numbers for to use on public waterways, this is the way to go.
Let me know if I can help.


----------



## cliff58 (Jan 29, 2015)

Thank you Johnny, and 10 minutes? That's awesome, man! At the Orlando office in the courthouse it takes that long just to see the line in the hallway move. Took 4 hours to renew my FL ID card in a sea of hundreds of people.

I have never registered or titled anything in FL so I sure would appreciate a little guidance. I've been looking at the forms and it looks like I need the "Application for Certificate of Title With/Without Registration" and in my case having a 1958 motor I can fill out the "Certification for an Antique Vessel Registration" to eliminate the base registration fee of $21. I figure the boat is from the 50's so using the engine's year works well enough for me. Will I also need the "Application to Register Non-Titled Vessels"?

When I search "FL Bill of Sale" I see several come up, did you use the official "Notice of Sale and/or Bill of Sale" or one of the generic pdf forms, or will my handwritten one be good enough? Thank God the seller is a friend of mine, we can redo it any time if need be.

And of course I need to know if I have enough money to do this so if you don't mind mentioning the cost it would be great. I think yours is the same class A-2 as mine. I hope the title is cheaper than one for a car!

I guess that covers everything for now. I think this thread will end up being a great resource for future antique boaters of Florida. I spent several nights on a fruitless search for just what we're creating here. Like the old saying goes, "If you want something done right, do it yourself"!

Thanks again, and I hope your project goes as smoothly as the legal work did


----------



## JL8Jeff (Jan 29, 2015)

NJ is a nightmare as well. No title on small trailers but you need really good proof of what it is or forget about it. I bought a 1970 Camaro SS396 from Canada several years back and NJ dmv wanted some obscure form that no other state uses any more. The import/export company was lucky to find a carbon copy of one and filled it out and faxed it to me. I'm currently buying a new toy (boat/trailer) from Oregon and they don't have anything for trailers so I figure I might be tossing the trailer if I can't get it registered as a home made. I don't understand why dmv stuff isn't standardized across all states. Every car, truck, boat, trailer should have a title and registration and that would probably clear up some of the fraud.


----------



## RichWentFishing504 (Jan 29, 2015)

Louisiana is impossible to get anything transferred unless you got the papers in hand and done right. I once got an old trailer without papers and I had more than a few places tell me I was out of luck and the best thing to do was leave it on the side of the road and accept my losses.


----------



## cliff58 (Jan 31, 2015)

Well I think I have all my paperwork in order and ready to go. I probably won't be able to get to the office till Tuesday, I'll let everyone know how it goes. 

Which face will it be?  or :? or


----------



## Johnny (Jan 31, 2015)

Oh Cliff - - - I just noticed that you have never registered anything in FL.
If you are "new" to Florida, I strongly suggest you take several items with you
such as Utility Bills, Voter's Card, Driver's License, FL ID Card, to PROVE you
are a FL resident !!! and not just a "Passing Through" SNOW BIRD !!


----------



## cliff58 (Jan 31, 2015)

Hadn't thought of that. Lets see, my ID was issued in March of 2013 so that probably covers it, but I'll grab some "official" mail from various years just to be on the safe side. I might even have something from the 1990's yet.  

Thanks again Johnny 8)


----------



## cliff58 (Feb 4, 2015)

Well, life got in the way of living and I didn't get to the office yet. Maybe tomorrow will work out better. But I did start painting the part of the reg I already know. :LOL2: 

Too bad the paint doesn't cover in one coat, that's some tedious work I will have to do two or three times! But it saves 10 bucks and matches the transom wood 8)


----------



## Attwanl (Feb 4, 2015)

I'm a North Carolina resident and they still registered my boat and trailer in Fl.


----------



## Johnny (Feb 4, 2015)

Attwan - what kind of papers did you present to the Tag Office in Florida
to get a FL registration ??
To qualify in any state, you must be a "property owner" . . . with that states drivers license
and/or permanent physical address (with utilities in your name) - (not a post office box).

am I being mistook ?? 

Just curious


----------



## richg99 (Feb 4, 2015)

I registered my boat in TN. I am a property owner, but am a TX resident, with TX. driver's license. No registration required on the trailer.


----------



## cliff58 (Feb 4, 2015)

Well everything was smooth sailing today, strolled in the office about 4:15pm, waited maybe 20 min, and had my 10 minutes at the window. For title, including $3.25 sales tax on the boat, it cost $15.50 for a 12ft 1in vessel. With the antique exemption on the reg fee, I only had to pay the county fee and the reg tax,total $8.50 for 2 years. Best 24 bucks I've spent in a long time! :mrgreen: 

I will have to re-mark part of the boat, though. Never even thought of the fact that the number 1 takes up less space than the others and I've got two of them to paint on my hull #-o 

And once again a big thank you to Barefoot_Johnny for helping me get everything right the first time! :USA1: Like most of us, the less time I spend in government offices the happier I am! =D> :beer:


----------



## lckstckn2smknbrls (Feb 4, 2015)

Barefoot_Johnny said:


> Attwan - what kind of papers did you present to the Tag Office in Florida
> to get a FL registration ??
> To qualify in any state, you must be a "property owner" . . . with that states drivers license
> and/or permanent physical address (with utilities in your name) - (not a post office box).
> ...


So resident renters can't own a boat?


----------



## Attwanl (Feb 5, 2015)

Barefoot_Johnny said:


> Attwan - what kind of papers did you present to the Tag Office in Florida
> to get a FL registration ??
> To qualify in any state, you must be a "property owner" . . . with that states drivers license
> and/or permanent physical address (with utilities in your name) - (not a post office box).
> ...



I not sure what the law is..... I went there just to ask questions, ending up walking out with a title to the boat and trailer.
I'm a North Carolina resident, but own property in Florida too. They did ask if I owned property in Florida and which state the boat would be in most of the time. 
Gave her my Nc drivers license along with a bill of sale. She gave me a title and registration.
But like I said I'm not sure what the rules are.


----------



## Johnny (Feb 5, 2015)

Good Job Cliff !!! glad it worked out for you. Now you will know what to do next time you 
find a good deal on an old Tin without numbers or papers. (and so will I)



And no, I have no idea as to the "law" concerning out-of-state renters or out-of-state property owners.......
All I know is what I have experienced with my own vehicles and vessels when it comes to registration in FL.
If you have any legal questions, please direct them to your appropriate tax and tag office.
I am a Florida Native and Resident , But, I have lived in Virginia and West Virginia and have had vehicles and
vessels registered in all 3 states, and all 3 have different requirements.
I only started this thread because of past posts concerning this issue of no numbers or papers on old boats
with the tax office. Myself included, some people did not know what to do. With a little research, I was able
to get numbers and papers for an old Tin Boat that was doomed to the scrap yard.
I hope that I have shed some light on the FLORIDA procedures when it comes to getting new documentation
for a vessel that has never been registered.
Johnny


----------



## Attwanl (Feb 5, 2015)

I know what ya mean with ever state beening different. Almost nothing happens in North Carolina with out a notary. And in Georgia you can own a vehicle with out a title if it's so old. And when you buy a jeep with fiberglass tub (body) and the serial numbers are different from the vin numbers on the title ....you have a mess. Not one of my smarter moments , but I did get it worked out.


----------



## cliff58 (Feb 13, 2015)

Today I had a most pleasant interruption while making rodholders for my boat. "Here Honey, you've been waiting for this".

I guess this concludes my antique boat registration saga, because I now have "Title in hand" :mrgreen:


----------



## Johnny (Feb 13, 2015)

Cool Beans !!
Glad you had a smooth transaction with the FL DMV !! Now your boat will look "more gooder" with numbers !
Now, if in the future, you find that "killer deal" on an old Tin,
you can badger the seller down in price due to "no numbers or papers"
than take care of it yourself !

I still kick myself for passing up on an awesome much older 1654 mod-V for $300.
Knowing what I know now, I could have gotten it for much less AND registered with no problemo.


----------



## PSG-1 (Feb 13, 2015)

lckstckn2smknbrls said:


> Get to know your states laws, rules and procedures before buying something you end up not being able use.



+1

Here in SC, it is illegal to buy or sell watercraft, or outboard motors without a title. It's a fine of up to 465 dollars. However, in some instances, such as, if you bought the boat without the intention of re-selling it, DNR will work with you, and allow you to register it.


----------

