# Help with Ted Williams 4.5 HP



## Y_J (Oct 31, 2014)

OK gang. I'm stuck. I have a Sears Ted Williams 4.5 HP, model #: 217-59464. Has a Tecumseh engine with a brand new Short Block in it.
I'm having a problem with no spark to the spark plug. So.... Taking the suggestion of a couple of you guys I started breaking down the motor to get to the electronics under the hood. I've been through the parts images at Sears Parts Direct and it seems that this motor does in fact have points. I'm thinking that just maybe when the engine was assembled last time, maybe a ground wire didn't get so grounded.
Now. Here's the problem I'm up against. I've spent the last couple of days trying to figure out how to get the flywheel off so I can get to those electronics. I've taken off everything from the top down to that point. I called Sears Parts Direct today in hopes of acquiring an Owners Manual for this motor but no dice. I've checked through eBay a few times and found one but it's on a DVD that I guess I'm going to have to get and just print it out myself. But in the mean time, does anyone here have any experience with this motor that could clue me in on how to get the flywheel off. There are no screws or bolts on top and I've been all the way around underneath with a flashlight and haven't found anything. The bolt that comes up through the center of it is still there and appears to be a part of the flywheel itself but the diagrams don't show it that way.
Can somebody help me out here, PLEASE......


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## BigTerp (Oct 31, 2014)

I can't help you specifically, but I would give this guy a holler and see if he has any insight.

https://www.maxrules.com/fixelink.html

When I first got my 1648 and before I did any modifications, I ran it with a 1965 Johnson 5 hp. Great little motor by the way. This was the best place I could find for old outboard parts and he seems really knowledgeable on older outboards. I think he charges for more in depth troubleshooting/diagnosis', but I would hope he wouldn't charge someone to explain how to remove a flywheel. Might even be able to get you an owners manual. Worth a shot anyway.


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## ggoldy (Oct 31, 2014)

Is there not an inspection hole on top of the flywheel to clean and adjust the points? Just a quick search told me it's a '74 model and referenced these three sites for info. I have NOT looked at them.

https://www.precisionservoutboard.com/Information/ArtsFivePointPlan/tabid/65/Default.aspx

https://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158086

https://www.duckworksmagazine.com/07/columns/max/articles.htm

Now, I've 'played with only a handfull of outboards, but every one had a nut on top of the crankshaft, holding the flywheel on. Put a ratchet on the nut, and wack it with the handle of a hammer. Don't pry up on the flywheel. Leave the nut on, and flush with the top of the crankshaft(keeps the flywheel from flying off when it pops loose). You need a 'harmonic balancer puller'. A simple, cheap wheel puller may just bend. Hardened steel washers, and 'grade 8' hardened bolts. For my '52 Johnson, I needed three 1/4X 20X 3" bolts. Yours may be different. I used a 12" cresent wrench to back up the wheel puller and a 10" ratchet on the center nut of the puller. I tighened SO HARD I thought it would break but it finally popped off.


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## SumDumGuy (Oct 31, 2014)

They may have a manual here...

https://www.boatsportandtackle.com/manuals/

Does the fly wheel have cooling fins, just curious.

Since there are no holes for mounting of a puller (unless you get a real wide gap puller, or fab something, or...) your best bet would be the tapping on the crankshaft (don't drop the key when it comes apart).
I also like to gently tap up on the outer edge of the flywheel using a piece of wood or something.
Don't hit it too hard.

Got pics?

BTW how do you get YJ from your real name?


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## JMichael (Nov 1, 2014)

Not to change the subject but I've got a Sears Ted Williams also. But mine isn't rated in horsepower. It's rated in caliber, 22 caliber semi automatic to be more specific. I wonder how many different items Sears plastered old Ted's name on. haha


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## ggoldy (Nov 1, 2014)

Y_J, found this, this morning. Might help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofmrcjuD9d8&spfreload=10

Still don't like the idea of prying up the edge of the flywheel. But that's just me.
Gary


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## southga (Nov 1, 2014)

I've got a tester that test condensers. but I'm in ga. and coils lol! working on boats is what I do full time so I've got a lot of old test equipment. maybe points gap?


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 1, 2014)

southga said:


> I've got a tester that test condensers. but I'm in ga. and coils lol! working on boats is what I do full time so I've got a lot of old test equipment. maybe points gap?



I was thinking gap and or corrosion. Of course I get another guess if the coil is falling apart.


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## southga (Nov 1, 2014)

compression fuel fire


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## Y_J (Nov 1, 2014)

ggoldy said:


> Is there not an inspection hole on top of the flywheel to clean and adjust the points?


I didn't see one. Just the three holes for the rope pulley and what appeared to be some sort of a key slot.


ggoldy said:


> You need a 'harmonic balancer puller'. A simple, cheap wheel puller may just bend. Hardened steel washers, and 'grade 8' hardened bolts. For my '52 Johnson, I needed three 1/4X 20X 3" bolts. Yours may be different. I used a 12" crescent wrench to back up the wheel puller and a 10" ratchet on the center nut of the puller. I tightened SO HARD I thought it would break but it finally popped off.


I was just watching a video about that. Thanks. I'll see what I can come up with tomorrow.


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## Y_J (Nov 1, 2014)

SumDumGuy said:


> They may have a manual here...
> 
> https://www.boatsportandtackle.com/manuals/
> 
> Does the fly wheel have cooling fins, just curious.


Thanks. I found one on ebay. It's on CD and I'm not to wild about that but hopefully I can print out the pages that I need.



SumDumGuy said:


> Since there are no holes for mounting of a puller (unless you get a real wide gap puller, or fab something, or...) your best bet would be the tapping on the crankshaft (don't drop the key when it comes apart).
> I also like to gently tap up on the outer edge of the flywheel using a piece of wood or something.
> Don't hit it too hard.
> 
> ...



I may go to AutoZone tomorrow. I hear that they loan tools, and see If maybe they will have something that will work.
Pics will be coming tomorrow. Thanks for reminding me.  

YJ.. Hmmm I wondered if someone would hit on that one  My grandmother (my mothers mother) had property inside of Yosemite National Park so the whole time I was growing up, we were there nearly every weekend. When I got old enough to have a job (13-14) I would work in the horse stables so I could stay there all summer long. When I had become an adult, and my grandmother had passed, I tried to take over the lease on the property but the government wouldn't go for it. They said that her lifetime lease meant just her lifetime. Darn. At any rate I still spent any free time I could get in Yosemite. I have hiked and backpack several hundred miles there over the years and have even been to the top of the Half Dome in Yosemite a couple of times. By then my friends had taken to calling me a *Yosemite Junkie* cause just about any time I disappeared, that's where they could find me  so I started using Yosemite Junkie as a online suado name and eventually shortening it down to YJ. Now that's what most people I know call me. Just YJ.


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## Y_J (Nov 1, 2014)

southga said:


> I've got a tester that test condensers. but I'm in ga. and coils lol! working on boats is what I do full time so I've got a lot of old test equipment. maybe points gap?


That's what I was thinking when I started tearing it down. Either gap or burnt, or something not grounded right.
I've got a multitester here. I wonder if I could figure out how to use it to test some of this stuff.


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## Y_J (Nov 1, 2014)

ggoldy said:


> Y_J, found this, this morning. Might help.
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofmrcjuD9d8&spfreload=10
> 
> ...


Watched that video. He did have some decent ideas. Seems to me that prying on the edge might bend or warp it somehow.


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 2, 2014)

Not alot of time, will comment further tomorrow.

Check out the troubleshooting guide at this link (link is mine and is safe)....

https://jmp.sh/GktxvH8


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## Y_J (Nov 3, 2014)

SumDumGuy said:


> Not alot of time, will comment further tomorrow.
> 
> Check out the troubleshooting guide at this link (link is mine and is safe)....
> 
> https://jmp.sh/GktxvH8


Got it and downloaded after reading it.. Thanks so much SDG. Gives me some info to work with. Really appreciate it.


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## Y_J (Nov 3, 2014)

Here are some of the pics as promised. BTW I did manage to get the flywheel off today using one of the techniques used in the video I watched yesterday. Shown in the photo's.
Using a large screwdriver and a hammer, I put a bit of pressure under the FW and tapped the shaft with the hammer, turning the FW a quarter turn between each shaft tap. After 5 or 6 taps the FW came loose and I was able to wiggle it the rest of the way loose and lift it off, being careful not to loose the the key in the process.
The condenser seems to have some rust or corrosion on the outside and the points had some sort of residue on the top side though I haven't pulled them out just yet. Trying to find the instructions for my multimeter so I know where to set it for some of the different tests in there.


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## ggoldy (Nov 4, 2014)

That looks MUCH cleaner than my Johnson was! Coil looks new. Points and condenser and you may be in business.


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 4, 2014)

ggoldy said:


> That looks MUCH cleaner than my Johnson was! Coil looks new. Points and condenser and you may be in business.



That's what I thought, too.

You can see if the condenser (capacitor) will charge and discharge, which is more than likely.

Then clean up and set the points. 

You can aggressively clean the points by putting a very fine sand paper or emery cloth (preferred) in between while they are closed and work it back and forth. Follow that up with a cloth soaked in acetone or alcohol to ensure removal of any oil and or particulates.
You wont have to be to forceful in the clean, you're just trying to remove dirt/oil and oxidation.


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## Y_J (Nov 4, 2014)

Yep. I'm gonna try to get to those points and get them cleaned up tomorrow. Been spending most all my time the last few days, trying to level the ground where my portable garage is being set up. The ground at the back is 2' lower than that at the front. That makes for a lot of dirt I have to cart in there. 10' wide and 17' long. UGGGGG.
I want to try another spark test also, in a different way I didn't think of the other day when I originally did it.
Thanks guys for all the input. I really appreciate it.
BTW here is two more pics of the flywheel, of the underside, that I took today..


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## Y_J (Nov 6, 2014)

One more photo shot today.


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## JMichael (Nov 6, 2014)

ggoldy said:


> That looks MUCH cleaner than my Johnson was! Coil looks new. Points and condenser and you may be in business.


If you look closely at the enlarged version of pics 4 & 5 you can see the aluminum/silver paint over spray on the condensor and it's wires, as well as the bottom half of the coil that wasn't masked off. I'm pretty sure I see some yellow over spray as well. So in this case, I think looks can be deceiving and you'll want to test everything because someone has been under there before for what ever reason.


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## Y_J (Nov 6, 2014)

JMichael said:


> ggoldy said:
> 
> 
> > That looks MUCH cleaner than my Johnson was! Coil looks new. Points and condenser and you may be in business.
> ...


I noticed the paint over spray myself. Gonna have to take another look though cause I don't remember seeing the yellow . Even wondered if that could have any effect contributing to the problem.
Found a new set of points and condenser on Ebay for this model of motor. $11 and change and a new coil also for $22 and change. Think I'll go find a lawnmower shop and see what they would charge for for these parts. Thinking also a new spark plug wire also, while I've got it all tore apart.


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 7, 2014)

Does that motor use metallic core spark plug wire?


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## Y_J (Nov 7, 2014)

SumDumGuy said:


> Does that motor use metallic core spark plug wire?


Now, that I don't know. How would I find/figure that out? And what's the difference?


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## lswoody (Nov 8, 2014)

Y_J said:


> SumDumGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Not alot of time, will comment further tomorrow.
> ...



Looks like some good info


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 8, 2014)

Y_J said:


> SumDumGuy said:
> 
> 
> > Does that motor use metallic core spark plug wire?
> ...



To figure it out I would guess a resistance measurement could be taken (what the reading needs to be I dunno - pro'lly real low with metal conductor).

The difference is metallic core has a low resistance thus "optimal electrical charge" can be delivered to the spark plug. The draw back to this wire is it also generates a lot of RF interference.
The other "normal" wire is a carbon based "wire." This type minimizes RF noise. but the draw back is it has higher resistance which reduces the electric "stuff" at the plug.

I am not positive, but I think that all {???} points type ignitions use the metallic core wire.


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## Y_J (Nov 9, 2014)

OK I'll try my multimeter on it and see what I can come up with.


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 9, 2014)

It wont hurt to use metallic core (if you can find it anywhere but online).


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## Y_J (Nov 10, 2014)

Right on. I'll see what I can dig up.
In the mean time I got my tongue extention welded on yesterday and the winch post reworked from a 90 degree to a 30 degree angle and re welded today. Got the bow eye installed today also. Also aquired a bow stop and a tongue roller today. Little by little making some progress. Wooooot


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## SumDumGuy (Nov 21, 2014)

Whatsa happenin?


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## Y_J (Nov 22, 2014)

Got the new points and condencer in the mail a couple days ago. Just haven't got them on the motor yet. Got rain and thunder storms headed our way and been trying to get the garage done before they get here. LOL I've been using a rototiller to dig the dirt I need to level the floor with, and it was working out great, untill today. I ran out of gas and I'm out of $$ until Wed. and the 1st storm comes thru on Tue. Ugggg. Guess I'll have to start digging the old fashion way, with a shovel. 
Once that is done, the Ted Williams is the 1st order of business.
I did re-test the compression on the Gamefisher a few days ago and consistantly came up with 85 PSI. There might be some hope for that motor yet.


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