# New guy, need help getting a decent motor



## Johnsboat (Jul 21, 2014)

Hello all,

I have an old 12 ft sears modified v, I have an electric but need a gas motor as I boat on the ohio river and the electric has a little trouble with the current.

I cannot afford a new motor, unless I buy a Chinese hangkai....

What do you guys suggest? I need dependable and able to move boat upriver, and all that for 500$ or less.

Maintenance is not a problem, however, I dont want OR need a rebuild project (we have enough of those!)

Thanks for your time and help, 

John


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## Johnsboat (Jul 22, 2014)

Let me ask this way:

From what I have read a 60/70s OMC (Johnson/evinrude) would be a good dependable motor. 

Would 3.5 horse be a good minimum size, up to a target around 5-6?

Just a basic 12 ft johnboat, only swivel seats added. 

Thanks!


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## SumDumGuy (Jul 22, 2014)

I have a '55 10hp Johnson and a '53 15hp Evinrude that I would not be worried about having issues. I would go anywhere with these motors without worry of being stranded.
Of course I have done what you mentioned you don't want to do, got them free and cheap and fixed 'em up.

If I were you I would consider a 9.5-10hp motor if the weight was not too much.


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## Johnsboat (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks for your reply.

I am going to look at a Johnson 6 hp tomorrow, not sure year, it is an older gentlemen in ohio that buys and rebuilds small motors, he says it is a nice motor. $350 so not bad I think.


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## Kismet (Jul 23, 2014)

$350 is good.

And, of course, the buyer's question needs to be asked: "What's the best price you can give me?"

Happy Trails.


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## Johnsboat (Jul 23, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=360668#p360668 said:


> Kismet » 23 Jul 2014, 16:44[/url]"]$350 is good.
> 
> And, of course, the buyer's question needs to be asked: "What's the best price you can give me?"
> 
> Happy Trails.



That is definitely true! I am a little concerned with weight and as always, horsepower equals $$$. He has some others available, a couple in the 9.9 range so will look at those also.

John


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## BrazosDon (Jul 23, 2014)

Weight and horsepower should be too much for that boat. IMHO Besides I don't like 12' boats. Dangerous!


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## PatinIdaho (Jul 23, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=360690#p360690 said:


> BrazosDon » 23 Jul 2014, 18:08[/url]"]Weight and horsepower should be too much for that boat. IMHO Besides I don't like 12' boats. Dangerous!



I don't know about that. Done one heck of a lot of fishing from a 12 footer on lake Roosevelt back in the late 90s. Its all about commen sense!!


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## satx78247 (Jul 23, 2014)

Johnsboat,

IF it was my 12ft boat, I would use it on farm ponds & small lakes with a GOOD trolling motor & buy myself a 14 or 16ft V-bottom by any reputable maker. = Personally, I'm afraid of 12ft boats out on any lake/creek/river where we are more than 50M to dry land.

Ignore the age of the "new to you" tin boat. - Only CONDITION counts.
(I know at least TEN "new tin boat guys" who have gotten a FREE & perfectly suitable tin boat to "get it out of my yard". = My friend Larry P_________ in northern VA was actually PAID 50.oo to haul away a 16ft "old school" 1960s John-boat on a usable Sears trailer. - He & Lisa painted the boat "army camo" & cleaned-up the trailer & have LESS than 100 bucks in their boat/trailer. Then Larry bought a 100.oo OMC 18HP & re-modeled it, for a total of @ 350.oo for everything.)

Note: IF remodeling a boat/motor/trailer was difficult, I couldn't do it as I'm NOT "handy". = Anyone who is of normal IQ, has 50.oo worth of hand tools, paint/brushes & some simple maintenance parts for the OB can do this hobby successfully.

Then I would acquire a copy of CHEAP OUTBOARDS: THE BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO MAKING AN OLD MOTOR RUN FOREVER from the library & read it carefully, cover to cover, BEFORE buying an outboard motor of ANY kind.
After that, I would start "haunting" outboard motor sales, garage sales & estate sales until I found a 1955-70 outboard by Evinrude, Gale, Johnson or SeaKing (paying from 10-150.oo for it!) that is COMPLETE, has GOOD COMPRESSION & then follow the directions in the CHEAP OUTBOARDS book to power your boat.

just my OPINIONS, satx


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## Y_J (Jul 23, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=360697#p360697 said:


> satx78247 » July 23rd, 2014, 10:40 pm[/url]"]
> Then I would acquire a copy of CHEAP OUTBOARDS: THE BEGINNER'S GUIDE TO MAKING AN OLD MOTOR RUN FOREVER from the library & read it carefully, cover to cover, BEFORE buying an outboard motor of ANY kind.
> After that, I would start "haunting" outboard motor sales, garage sales & estate sales until I found a 1955-70 outboard by Evinrude, Gale, Johnson or SeaKing (paying from 10-150.oo for it!) that is COMPLETE, has GOOD COMPRESSION & then follow the directions in the CHEAP OUTBOARDS book to power your boat.
> 
> just my OPINIONS, satx



Last time I went to the library, (bout a month ago) I tried to find that book. would you believe they didn't carry it?.. O well. doing the best I can with what I have  .


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## satx78247 (Jul 24, 2014)

Y_J,

Well amazon.com frequently has the book for sale at a deep discount - My friend Larry got his there for 9.99 used, with free shipping.
(CHEAPSKATE that I am, I paid 5 bucks for mine off "the junk table" at GOODWILL for 5.oo & a buddy of mine bought a "library discard" at SAPL's BOOK CELLER for 99 cents in READABLE condition.) 

yours, satx


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## Y_J (Jul 24, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=360714#p360714 said:


> satx78247 » July 24th, 2014, 12:01 am[/url]"]Y_J,
> 
> Well amazon.com frequently has the book for sale at a deep discount - My friend Larry got his there for 9.99 used, with free shipping.
> (CHEAPSKATE that I am, I paid 5 bucks for mine off "the junk table" at GOODWILL for 5.oo & a buddy of mine bought a "library discard" at SAPL's BOOK CELLER for 99 cents in READABLE condition.)
> ...


Gonna go check it out at Amazon.. Thanks for the tip...


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## onthewater102 (Jul 24, 2014)

even if you get it from a rebuilder MAKE SURE THE IMPELLER IS GOOD...

simple 15 minute inspection will be all that is required.


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## satx78247 (Jul 24, 2014)

onthewater102,

Fwiw, I replace the impeller on all my "using" OBs every year regardless, as the rubber "takes a set".
(Impellers are CHEAP, when compared to repairing a powerhead.)

yours, satx


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## onthewater102 (Jul 25, 2014)

Overkill is under rated - but my comment was directed to


Johnsboat said:


> ...I am going to look at a Johnson 6 hp tomorrow, not sure year, it is an older gentlemen in ohio that buys and rebuilds small motors, he says it is a nice motor. $350 so not bad I think.


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## Johnsboat (Jul 25, 2014)

Update, I drove 30 minutes out of my way and the seller wasn't home - he had told me to call before hand in case he was out on a service call, so I did. He finally called me back from the horse track.

So, here's the rest of the story. I picked this boat up 5 years ago or so at a garage sale for $200. It came on a trailer with bad bearings (I fixed that) and with a trolling motor that does work and a 1964 3 hp Johnson Yachtwin that doesn't. On top of not working, my father in law (lives with us, great guy, 85 and still mowing pastures on the John Deere) took the motor apart.....a lot....and put pieces in various places, 98% of which I have found.

So I have done a little tinkering and the fuel lines not clogged, the pistons aren't seized, the gear oil in the lower end wasn't milky even though the drive is clunky to me....why not look for a carb, elec and impeller reuild kit at sierra marine?

I did and they will cost me about 20 bucks apiece.

I will be ordering cheap outboards and those pieces tonight. Any other recommendations on parts to replace while I am in there?

I do appreciate your advice on size and river. Yes, Ohio is a big river, I and my kids swim across and back annually, but it isn't like PatinIdaho's post about Lake Roosevelt, I am always within a half mile swim of the bank, if the oars break. Hey this thing is HUGE compared to my 10 foot flat bottom I rowed around the Ohio and Hocking when I was 12!

Thanks all!

John


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## Kismet (Jul 25, 2014)

I dunno, I'm not sure about those old 3 hp engines.

Maybe you should send it to me and I'll get back to you on it,

eventually.




:roll: 


You are going to fall in love with it. I promise.
And I wondered about the weight of the 6hp
_
AND, don't ever compare the exploits you did when you were 12 (and lived)
to current behaviors. Every human male should have been killed about a
half-dozen times doing stuff they shouldn't have when they were kids; stuff
they never told their parents about. :mrgreen: _


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## turbotodd (Jul 25, 2014)

My dad bought an old 4hp Mercury from a guy who had on Facebook. Early 70's or late 60's model. For what he got it for, we figured on making a couple bucks on it. Plus dad likes to tinker with old stuff like that.

Anyway...he gave up on it. The carburetor was stupid. The bowl was separate from the carb, well sorta. Dumb design, IMO. Motor ran good but would sometimes flood, needle valve leaking. I replaced the needle and seat assembly, twice. And gaskets. Full carb kit that last time, and it seemed to do ok the few times I ran it. Anyway, a guy my brother works with was looking for a little motor like that and dad told him it was for sale, so the guy ended up buying it for what dad had in it. I did most of the work though, but let dad have the money. 

So the guy bought it and loved it, said it moved him and his 12' flat bottom just fine. About a month or so ago, he goes over to the lake that he's fished about a zillion times and in the afternoon a shower pops up like sometimes happens here. He couldn't get the motor to start, flooded again. Wind picked up, tossed the boat around, he came out and drowned.

After that deal, I will NOT buy another Mercury outboard, period. I've had nothing but trouble with them. Had a 9.8, a 90 (3 cyl), 140 (1400) inline, that 4hp, a 15, and most recently a 2001 model 25. Had to work on every one of them to keep 'em running. And I've also got an old 9.9 Evinrude (1986), and work on it more than use it. And also have a 15 hp electric start as of today, and hate it already. Stop button died and no spark. Luckily I'm familiar with outboards and can do a lot right on the lake, but that takes time away from fishin'. 

So sometimes you have to ask yourself, do you want to fix it continually or do you want to have confidence in your equipment? On a river like the Ohio, I'd want the latter-especially on a small boat.


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## Johnsboat (Jul 26, 2014)

Thanks for the advice on the oubtoards, and the war stories. Well....the outboards.

I understand you guys are trying to help with the new guy - and I am in no way an expert, but I have been on this river for over 40 years. I understand safety more than most of you as a former military pilot. I can read a weather map, I can wear a lifejacket (and do).

As for war stories, I've had the experience of seeing professionals make stupid mistakes that took their lives, that is why planning and common sense are important. Why I asked your opinion on a motor for my boat. Yes, it says max HP 9.9 but I was leary of that heavy of a motor, why I posted for your advice.

Do not take the above as cockiness, just trying to keep on topic.

Parts ordered last night for the 3 horse. Looks like I am doing a project now (already violating my first post).

Thanks,

I'll post up my work along the way.

John


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## satx78247 (Jul 26, 2014)

Johnsboat,

My guess is that you'll get "good service" from that old 3HP Evinrude AND that (if you're at all like me) that you'll keep it permanently as your "first OB restoration project".
(The first "cheap outboard" that I bought "to mess about with" is a 1955 Johnson CD-12, for which I paid "the princely sum of 20 bucks" at a garage sale & spent about 150.oo rehabbing. = Money wouldn't buy it, as doing the rehab convinced me that I could become more self-reliant. - I'm not a "mechanic" by any stretch of the imagination.)

BEST WISHES, satx


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## Johnsboat (Jul 30, 2014)

Early Christmas from marine engine.


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## DanMC (Jul 30, 2014)

I look at outboards as if they were cars, we have a nearly 3 years old son that already loves to fish...so since I for some time lost faith in "domestic" motors/outboards I naturally looked at what we drive,own and after seeing a great dependable Honda SUV and a Toyota car in a driveway,a Honda lawnmower,a Honda snow blower (Canada eh),Honda pressure washer,Honda generator for camping, Yamaha home emergency generator...we bought two Honda outboards for our 14.5"Lund....a 25 HP and 2 HP !..... and we love them !....just my .2¢


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## Johnsboat (Aug 1, 2014)

Low speed needle...Just verifying this needs replaced-very worn and bent. $40 on marine engine.com

Thanks! Rest of carb looks ok, looks like fuel was off so didn't varnish carb. Was not able to remove fixed orifice plug (part of fixed high speed needle thing) but it is open so I figure that's ok?


John


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## Johnsboat (Aug 1, 2014)

Ordered more parts, low speed needle, couple of gaskets, screws, 2nd coil (wondered if anyone noticed in my Christmas pic that I only ordered 1.....).

Hopefully this will be it for a while. Carb is rebuilt per service manual. I don't completely understand carbs - but I don't know how this computer works either, but I still use it.

Tomorrow I will do a little trailer work and might even try to start motor with rebuilt carb - will see, still need to pick up spark plugs and swap out water impeller.

Off topic - is there a way to modify title of thread? Should I move this to a non-motor only thread?

Thanks again.

DanMC - I know what you are saying. My wife has a Ford diesel for pulling the horse trailer, other than that I have 3 Toyotas - 1994 Land Cruiser, 2010 Corolla, and 2013 Rav4 (teenage driver car). The 94 has 240K+ miles and the 2010 has 140K+.


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## Johnsboat (Aug 2, 2014)

Update:

Put all back together, put in new spark plugs and top one would not tighten to 20 ft lbs per service manual. I am sure I screwed up and crossthreaded....

was trying to get started - it turned over once, but that was it. Checked spark, bottom was good, nothing from top. so...since I had one coil and other various parts....tore down to magneto and replaced the forward coil and spark plug wire as well as both condensors. breaker points and contact looked ok as far as I can tell, I am no expert though.

Put it back together - yep, top spark plug is loose, but cranked it anyway.....I think it tried to fire because the plug ended up about 10 feet down the driveway!

Unfortunately, I don't see a head available on marineengine.com Anyone know where I can find one? Would tapping the threads be enough? Not sure what kind of pressures I am dealing with.

Thanks!

John


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## SumDumGuy (Aug 2, 2014)

how about one of them heli-coil deals. I have seen guys post on here about fixing bad plug holes before.


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## great white (Aug 2, 2014)

Pick up a spark plug hole repair kit. You get the tap and helicoil.

I have one in my 2 HP johnson (threads eventually rotted away in salt environment) and its works just fine. 

Best to pull the head off if putting a tap/insert in. Can be done on the motor, but you're risking shavings in the cylinder even if you take all the precautions. Taking the head off also make it easy to keep the tap square to the hole. I also used a dab of locktight red to make sure the insert doesn't come back out with the spark plug on removal.

Cheers


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## Johnsboat (Aug 2, 2014)

Super,

I'll pull the head and do that this week at home.

Thanks for the knowledge!

John


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## Charger25 (Aug 3, 2014)

You can pick up spark plug thread repair kits at napa. Some have helicoils some are just inserts. Mine was an insert, directions said to use high temp RTV sealant. Well the insert came out with the plug so I used Loc-tite on it ,no problems since and that was years ago.


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## great white (Aug 3, 2014)

[url=https://www.tinboats.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=362029#p362029 said:


> Johnsboat » Yesterday, 19:21[/url]"]Super,
> 
> I'll pull the head and do that this week at home.
> 
> ...



NP.

Just make sure you have a head gasket on hand to replace the old one.


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## Jake11 (Aug 5, 2014)

what part of ohio are you from? i grew up right near the ohio river just outside of wellsville in the middle of no where. you may be a little frustrated with it right now but stick with it. there is no better feeling than when you get it to fire and run good for the first time. i just started tinkering with these old outboards about a year ago and now i've brought 4 of them back from the dead. all omc's. the older the better. they still knew how to make stuff that lasts back then and there are no expensive electrical systems to deal with. after you get that plug hole fixed and no spark on one cylinder issue figured out make sure you clean that carb WELL let it soak and blow it out with air. you can get that little metal plug out by knocking a sharp punch through it and it will pry right out. i have learned that if you dont get carb cleaner then compressed air through every single orifice and jet that you will regret it later. good luck


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## Johnsboat (Aug 16, 2014)

Thanks or all the tips. Weekend update: put it all back together and started right up. Not sure I have the lean/rich settings figured out. Went for a short oat ride - with oars on hand as back-up!) and ran well for about 10 minutes, then became hard to keep running - if I kept choke on it would start and run for a it, then die out. Will need to learn some more about carburation.

Very happy with progress right now!


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## Steve A W (Aug 16, 2014)

Johnsboat
How clean is the gas tank?
There is a filter on the gas fitting in the tank, might need cleaning.
Is the vent in the gas cap open and clear?
Just a couple of things to check before taking the carb off.
Good Luck with Your motor.

Steve A W


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