# 1962 Sea King 15hp wont pull



## aeviaanah (Jan 26, 2012)

I received a 1962 15hp 2 stoke outboard from a friend for free. He recently serviced the engined, cleaned components replaced sparkplugs etc. He had it running for a bit, came back the next day and it had seized up on him. 

It isnt worth what it would cost a mechanic to perform diagnostics. I am not too motor savy and would like to use this to learn a bit, even if I never get it running. I am thinking since it wont pull, something in the engine itself has seized. 

I guess my next step is to figure out what has seized and if its able to be fixed. I have removed the pull starter housing, there is a 3/4" nut on top of a bolt which is holding down the flywheel. It seems the flywheel should be able to come off but wont budge. Any suggestions?

Can anyone point me in the right direction to get this thing running? Resources? I dont need a step by step guide but something so I can start asking the right questions.


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## Loggerhead Mike (Jan 26, 2012)

Take the spark plugs out and try and turn the flywheel by hand. If no go spray some penetrating oil in the cylinders and let it soak for a day

They make a puller for the flywheel, or you can have a buddy put tension on 2 pry bars and hit the shaft with a brass hammer.

The flywheel is usually torqued down on a tapered shaft. May have to let it soak in some penetrating oil too.

Sounds like ya got a good deal. Free education and you can always sell it for scrap metal


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## aeviaanah (Jan 26, 2012)

Loggerhead Mike said:


> Take the spark plugs out and try and turn the flywheel by hand. If no go spray some penetrating oil in the cylinders and let it soak for a day
> 
> They make a puller for the flywheel, or you can have a buddy put tension on 2 pry bars and hit the shaft with a brass hammer.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the reply. I sprayed penetrating oil in directly on the cylinders a few days ago. I cant spin the flywheel...i did try to hit it with a soft mallet. Dont have a brass hammer. Ill spray some penetrating oil on it. In the motor, What would most likely bind up and cause this? I tried spinning the prop as well, no luck.


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## Loggerhead Mike (Jan 26, 2012)

If you don't have a brass put the nut back on the shaft so you don't mess up any threads and give it a few good wacks with a hammer. You need somebody putting pressure on the flywheel while you hit it to help pop it off that shaft

There's no tellin what could be seized, gotta dig in there some more

Looking forward to hear what you find


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## Pappy (Jan 26, 2012)

Was there any metallic looking particles on the spark plugs? Chances are your buddy ran that engine on 50:1 fuel oil mix. That engine is a little early for that and needed to be run on 24:1. 
Second thought may be to pull the gearcase drain screw and see if there is metal on the drain screw. May be a seized gearcase not allowing the crank in the powerhead to turn.


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## JMichael (Jan 26, 2012)

It's probably not the best idea to start hitting on the flywheel with a hammer. It can and has happened before where the impact from the hammer affects the magnets in the flywheel. I'm just as guilty as everyone else that has ever done this, so I know it's not going to happen every time. Just be aware that it can happen.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 26, 2012)

Loggerhead Mike said:


> If you don't have a brass put the nut back on the shaft so you don't mess up any threads and give it a few good wacks with a hammer. You need somebody putting pressure on the flywheel while you hit it to help pop it off that shaft
> 
> There's no tellin what could be seized, gotta dig in there some more
> 
> Looking forward to hear what you find


Hey Mike thanks for sticking with me...it be nice to have someone I can run through my progress. I have sure learned alot since starting this project. After looking at this I think I have a general idea...

The pull start turns the magneto which generates spark to plugs and initiates combustion. 
Combustion turns crankshaft which turns magneto and generates spark for the next stroke. 
The fuel line runs to the fuel pump and out to the carburetor, I think the carb regulates the amount of fuel/air?
The fuel and air move through the engine to the pistons, combustion occurs and exhaust runs through and out to lower unit?

This may seem basic to most but It is what I have gathered in the last few hours. I can read read read but until i get dirty I wont absorb anything. Learning all this will make me more confident to service my new 2011 Mercury 4stroke.

Today, I removed the flywheel as LoggerheadMike suggested. At first I was trying to remove magneto to get to motor but after a second look I dont think I need to, to get inside motor. Looks like the bolts running through the motor housing (under the motor) need to be removed so I can raise the motor out from the motor housing. I can then get to the panels that are bolted to the motor. 

Should I just start taking panels off, how would I identify what is seized? 








Today I also removed the lower unit, this gave me a good idea of how the water pump works. Its in pretty good condition, could just use some cleaning. The oil will need to be replaced in gear case. I also see how the gear shifter connects to the gear case. 





Here is something I have a question on...what exactly does this adjustment do? Does it adjust the throttle idle limit?


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## JMichael (Jan 26, 2012)

aeviaanah said:


> Here is something I have a question on...what exactly does this adjustment do? Does it adjust the throttle idle limit?



Most idle control/adjustments are done at the carb but in this case, it does appear that that is exactly what you have there. It appears to have a knurled edge for adjusting with your fingers, so maybe it was a quick and easy way to turn the idle up for trolling.


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## Mike Redmond (Jan 26, 2012)

Maybe late in this suggestion,but an old trick from my buddies in the village I,m from they pour hot transmission oil in seized engines,more often than not it works,,Mike


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## aeviaanah (Jan 26, 2012)

JMichael said:


> aeviaanah said:
> 
> 
> > Here is something I have a question on...what exactly does this adjustment do? Does it adjust the throttle idle limit?
> ...


Thanks for helping me clarify that. I found an old service manual for Gale motors, although my motor is a Sea king, Gale manufactured it... this is exactly what the manual said this was. 


Mike Redmond said:


> Maybe late in this suggestion,but an old trick from my buddies in the village I,m from they pour hot transmission oil in seized engines,more often than not it works,,Mike


Ok ill give that a try if this penetrating oil doesnt work...should I whack the cylinders with a piece of wood? Another question, if I do get it to break free, how to i get all this oil out before starting it up? Im trying to break it free before getting into the motor itself. 


Pappy said:


> Was there any metallic looking particles on the spark plugs? Chances are your buddy ran that engine on 50:1 fuel oil mix. That engine is a little early for that and needed to be run on 24:1.
> Second thought may be to pull the gearcase drain screw and see if there is metal on the drain screw. May be a seized gearcase not allowing the crank in the powerhead to turn.


I did check oil in gear case. Looked like dirty motor oil, definitely needs to be replaced. After removing the lower unit i turned prop and it turned the drive shaft, it did have more resistance than i expected but wasn't the cause of the motor not turning. I read post after removing drain plug but I didn't notice any metal on drain plug.

We sure have a lot of Mikes helping out here!


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## aeviaanah (Jan 26, 2012)

Pappy said:


> Was there any metallic looking particles on the spark plugs? Chances are your buddy ran that engine on 50:1 fuel oil mix. That engine is a little early for that and needed to be run on 24:1.
> Second thought may be to pull the gearcase drain screw and see if there is metal on the drain screw. May be a seized gearcase not allowing the crank in the powerhead to turn.


I found out the previous owner ran 50:1 ratio. He told me he cleaned the motor, got it to run came back the next day and it had seized. This tells me the motor overheated and the heat expanded the pistons causing it to seize. Is there still hope?


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## JMichael (Jan 26, 2012)

Although it's probably not something a mechanic might recommend, here's something I've done in the past that freed up a 2 cycle engine that had seized up from overheating. Remove the head and sit the engine where the cylinders are pointed upward. Pour in some transmission fluid and let it set for a day. Then using a large piece of wood just a little smaller than the diameter of the cylinder, place one end on the piston and tap the other end. Don't whack the snot out of it or you could break the piston or rings, but repeated tapping might free it up. Alternate between cylinders. If you manage to get it freed up, turn the engine over until the piston is at the bottom. Inspect the cylinder walls. If they aren't scored too bad, it might still make enough compression to run. Of course this is not going to fix any damage that has already been done but it might get it running well enough to use for however long it last.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 27, 2012)

JMichael said:


> Although it's probably not something a mechanic might recommend, here's something I've done in the past that freed up a 2 cycle engine that had seized up from overheating. Remove the head and sit the engine where the cylinders are pointed upward. Pour in some transmission fluid and let it set for a day. Then using a large piece of wood just a little smaller than the diameter of the cylinder, place one end on the piston and tap the other end. Don't whack the snot out of it or you could break the piston or rings, but repeated tapping might free it up. Alternate between cylinders. If you manage to get it freed up, turn the engine over until the piston is at the bottom. Inspect the cylinder walls. If they aren't scored too bad, it might still make enough compression to run. Of course this is not going to fix any damage that has already been done but it might get it running well enough to use for however long it last.


I tried tapping cylinder with a piece of wood but cant get a square hit with bottom cowling still attached. I think i need to remove power head from everything else first. A user at another forum mentioned removing carb and intake to hit the crankshaft. Not sure what I will end up doing. Hopefully someone else will chine in with their input. I plan on getting something done this weekend.


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## Loggerhead Mike (Jan 27, 2012)

Go ahead and pull the pwr head it may be your only option


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## nomowork (Jan 27, 2012)

Sort of read through the previous posts.

Have the plugs been pulled? I see your lower unit is removed, so with the plugs pulled, it should be easy enough to turn the flywheel by hand. If not, I would assume there is a major internal problem in the power head.

I've overheated outboard before to the point they stopped running but after a quick cool down, they always fired up and ran again even with no water pumping!

Nothing like getting your hands dirty! Good luck.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 27, 2012)

Update, so i couldnt free up the motor from the pistons or from the small view of crankshaft through the intake manifold. I ended up splitting motor in half. I have got the pistons out everything is in pretty good condition except for piston rings and a bearing. Hopefully I can find replacement parts for this model. Any suggestions? Ill go ahead and start a thread for that.

...a few parts need to be replaced before I reassemble.

-piston rings (i was told to always replace these) piston rings where stuck to piston
-one crankshaft bearing

i was also told i need to address the crankshaft a bit when i buy the new bearings. polish it out. i also need to rehone the lower cylinder.

I just sprayed everything down with degreaser and am getting ready to do the first pass of cleaning the parts.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 27, 2012)

nomowork said:


> Sort of read through the previous posts.
> 
> Have the plugs been pulled? I see your lower unit is removed, so with the plugs pulled, it should be easy enough to turn the flywheel by hand. If not, I would assume there is a major internal problem in the power head.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for stopping by...im gettin ready for my first rebuild. Im sure learning alot about this stuff. Plugs have been pulled, power head is disassembled and is getting ready for a good cleaning. Needing to find replacement parts tho.


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## JMichael (Jan 28, 2012)

Any time you replace rings, you need to hone cylinders at minimum. So If you put new rings in both, hone both.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 28, 2012)

JMichael said:


> Any time you replace rings, you need to hone cylinders at minimum. So If you put new rings in both, hone both.


Man I was told I needed to replace rings. How can one tell?

Itd would have been nice to reuse them but they cracked as I was taking them off.

Ill be sure to rehone both cylinders if I can find rings.


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## Pappy (Jan 28, 2012)

Although rusted a bit the cylinder bores appear to be pretty normal looking. The engine had not been run for several years and has the original ignition coils in it. That is normally a good sign of an engine that is worth putting back into service. Your buddy is not on track with his diagnosis. Having run the engine on 50:1 instead of 24:1 will do a great job of seizing that engine. Your engine has plain bearings in it instead of roller bearings and needs the extra lubrication to survive. However, your cylinder walls look good. Would suggest at this point to remove the powerhead, remove the carb, intake manifold and reeds and have a look in the crank area. You may find your issue. Overheat sticking normally occurs on the exhaust side of a two-stroke piston and the damage is easily visible on the side of the cylinder wall. I cannot see the other side of the cylinder walls from your picture but the side that I can see shows me no reason for the seizure. Keep us in the loop. By the way, all gaskets are still available for your engine as well as all ignition parts, carb rebuild kits and gearcase seals and water pump parts. Everything you need to get that classic back on the water.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 28, 2012)

Pappy said:


> Although rusted a bit the cylinder bores appear to be pretty normal looking. The engine had not been run for several years and has the original ignition coils in it. That is normally a good sign of an engine that is worth putting back into service. Your buddy is not on track with his diagnosis. Having run the engine on 50:1 instead of 24:1 will do a great job of seizing that engine. Your engine has plain bearings in it instead of roller bearings and needs the extra lubrication to survive. However, your cylinder walls look good. Would suggest at this point to remove the powerhead, remove the carb, intake manifold and reeds and have a look in the crank area. You may find your issue. Overheat sticking normally occurs on the exhaust side of a two-stroke piston and the damage is easily visible on the side of the cylinder wall. I cannot see the other side of the cylinder walls from your picture but the side that I can see shows me no reason for the seizure. Keep us in the loop. By the way, all gaskets are still available for your engine as well as all ignition parts, carb rebuild kits and gearcase seals and water pump parts. Everything you need to get that classic back on the water.


Hey hey thats good to hear all the parts are available. At first I didnt think Id be able to get this running. Im pretty confident I will. This is my first time ever working on a motor, there doesnt seem to be much to them. Just got to follow the book, do things the right way. 

Right now Im working on cleaning things up, I fixed up the shot bearing...it should work like a charm now. After I get some cyl rings and new seals Ill be ready to put her back together.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 29, 2012)

Heres an update...

Here is the internal motor after Ive spend some time freeing it up.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oQBHUxND5Q[/youtube]

The pistons...
[youtube][ttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5rFLXXlrj0[/youtube]

When this motor was given to me the airbox was empty, should there be some kind of filter in here? If so, will marineengine.com have it?


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## Pappy (Jan 29, 2012)

No filter, you don't run into much dirt and dust on the water.....!


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## aeviaanah (Jan 29, 2012)

Pappy said:


> No filter, you don't run into much dirt and dust on the water.....!


Yea, after looking at the parts manual I figured it out. A buddy at work told me he thought it might of needed something in there! Did you get a chance to see the videos?


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## Pappy (Jan 30, 2012)

Just saw the one with you rotating the crank. Didn't tell me much. Rather see the damage in photos to tell me more.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 30, 2012)

Pappy said:


> Just saw the one with you rotating the crank. Didn't tell me much. Rather see the damage in photos to tell me more.


That was quiet an accomplishment for me! Lol...it was seized up bad. I just had to rotate it after rebuilding the bearing, refinishing piston pin, cleanin con rods and pistons. Does it sound right to you?

I got a picture of the crankshaft and reed valve...ive cleaned it up a bit since then.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 31, 2012)

I got all my parts ordered today...after honing the cylinders, is there anything special required to installing piston rings? Just put em on and call it good?


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## JMichael (Jan 31, 2012)

Yes, you have to pay attention to where the gap is located on each ring in relation to the other rings gap. With 2 cycle engines you might also need to be concerned about the ring gap location in relation to the intake/exhaust ports also but I'm not positive on that.

As a guess from a mechanical standpoint, I'd say you need to put the gap of one ring 180° from the other rings gap and position them so both gaps are as far away from the intake and exhaust ports as you can. But it would be best to hear from someone that has rebuilt one of these motors before you proceed.


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## aeviaanah (Jan 31, 2012)

JMichael said:


> Yes, you have to pay attention to where the gap is located on each ring in relation to the other rings gap. With 2 cycle engines you might also need to be concerned about the ring gap location in relation to the intake/exhaust ports also but I'm not positive on that.
> 
> As a guess from a mechanical standpoint, I'd say you need to put the gap of one ring 180° from the other rings gap and position them so both gaps are as far away from the intake and exhaust ports as you can. But it would be best to hear from someone that has rebuilt one of these motors before you proceed.


Each ring groove has a little nub sticking out which locates the ring respectively. They are 180deg apart. 

Can anyone tell me how to tell when the coils need to be replaced? The epoxy coating is chipping off my coils, they look to be original from the 60's. What tests can be done to check if they are still performing top notch?


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## Loggerhead Mike (Jan 31, 2012)

Check resistance of the coils and compare to the specs. Need an ohm meter


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## bbstacker1 (Jan 31, 2012)

Coils, If the outer shell is cracked or cracking you should replace them. If they are not shorting out now they will be soon and most likely at the worst time.


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## aeviaanah (Feb 1, 2012)

bbstacker1 said:


> Coils, If the outer shell is cracked or cracking you should replace them. If they are not shorting out now they will be soon and most likely at the worst time.


Ok i ordered new coils as well thanks!


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## earl60446 (Feb 1, 2012)

That bottom connecting rod race on the crank does not look too good in the photo, kinda chewed up.
That could be a showstopper.
Tim


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## aeviaanah (Feb 1, 2012)

earl60446 said:


> That bottom connecting rod race on the crank does not look too good in the photo, kinda chewed up.
> That could be a showstopper.
> Tim


I ended up refinishing the surfaces where bearings ride on crankshaft. It's not pitted or irregular just stained. I've gotten it pretty smooth but staining is still there.


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## aeviaanah (Feb 2, 2012)

Is there a timing adjustment for these old outboards? If so how is it done?


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## aeviaanah (Feb 5, 2012)

Heres my new dilemma. The section of the crankshaft, where the connection rods bearings attach needs to be turned down and micro polished. They are a little pitted and I know the amount of material needed to be removed will exceed tolerance. Not sure of my options or if the extra play will really matter. Any suggestions? I am a welder so adding material is a possibility, I've just never done it.


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## nomowork (Feb 5, 2012)

JMO so take it for what it's worth (sometimes not much) but I try to do most of my own maintenance on my boats, cars, house, etc. but I do know when I'm in over my head or abilities. After much fussing with older outboards, I went the new and newer route (two motors) as I want reliability. Waiting on the side of the road is one thing, but on the water is totally different.

Most crankshafts are balanced so I wouldn't think just adding material would be wise. Good luck though, at least you've gone farther than I would have.


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## aeviaanah (Feb 5, 2012)

nomowork said:


> JMO so take it for what it's worth (sometimes not much) but I try to do most of my own maintenance on my boats, cars, house, etc. but I do know when I'm in over my head or abilities. After much fussing with older outboards, I went the new and newer route (two motors) as I want reliability. Waiting on the side of the road is one thing, but on the water is totally different.
> 
> Most crankshafts are balanced so I wouldn't think just adding material would be wise. Good luck though, at least you've gone farther than I would have.


Well I have the 2011 15hp 4 stroke I just bought. This older motor has been mainly for learning. But I aint quittin here Im already $150 dollars and a few days of labor into it! 

Just curious if that extra play is going to be a big deal or not. Pitted and more material or no pits and less material?


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## JMichael (Feb 5, 2012)

I think that if I were going to try to use it for how ever long it would last, I'd go the "more material with pits" route. I'd try to polish it a little to remove any sharp edges that the pits may have, and give it a go. The excess slack created from having the crank turned and using the same size bearings would have a rod knocking and probably coming through the side of the block with a little time.


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## Pappy (Feb 6, 2012)

Remember the website I gave you already? www.aomci.org Put an ad in there for a used crank and I will just about guarantee you will come up with one and for little money as well. Get another rod while you are at it as well. As far as reliabliity goes I would put it right up there with the new ones. These engines are built like tanks and dirt simple in theory and operation. Feed them properly and run them properly and they will be able to be passed on to your grand kids!


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## acwd (Feb 8, 2012)

My dad has a 5 hp Sea King. That thing runs great. Its a late 50s or early 60s. Where did you get your parts at for your motor? I want to put a new water pump in it. 

Steve


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## aeviaanah (Feb 8, 2012)

acwd said:


> My dad has a 5 hp Sea King. That thing runs great. Its a late 50s or early 60s. Where did you get your parts at for your motor? I want to put a new water pump in it.
> 
> Steve


marineengine.com


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