# trailer build sport canoe



## olefart (Oct 8, 2016)

This is my Grumman sports canoe and trailer I recently purchased and not sure what all I need to do to it. the rear has rollers and only one roller up front. It only weighs 110 lbs empty if I remember right, but it will get heavier before I am done, not sure if you can tell how high it is in the back . I am not familiar with this arrangement or its purpose.The trailer is a narrow thing, like it is made just for this boat, but I doubt that. I got it up in Billings,MT. and it was used in the waters up that way. 
Is it built like this for loading and unloading without ramps? If I push the boat rearward the rollers take the load and it is balanced and easy to handle even though it's a couple feet off the ground. I am pretty sure I can off load it to the yard and load it back on easy if healthy which is debatable in my case.lol
Now I plan on it being weighed down with sail, electric, and 4hp gas motor along with a mud motor for the skinny water. these will have to be stored on the trailer so I can drag this around the country. to old to be dragging and lifting things.
I'm heading south in winter and I live in Wyoming in the summers, this boat will also be a project but that's another topic. 
So I guess I'm asking for info as to what I am starting with and any suggestions to guide me to what I'm after. I plan on putting the axle on top of the springs drop a couple inches cut and drop the rear rollers or replace them with bunks but drop it as low as I can not sure about moving the boat farther back, add bunks , extend the end of the trailer? The front parts need changing also may extend the tongue a couple feet to keep my feet dry. Of course a way to walk front to back, to stay as dry as possible.lol
I have the necessary tools, equipment, along with skill and common sense, lol, so with a little help from my friends this ought to be fun.


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Oct 8, 2016)

Sounds like you will need a gantry to hang a hoist from to lift things. You could in incorporate it into side bunks uprights.


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## olefart (Oct 8, 2016)

That's an idea the mud motor would be the heaviest to be lifted on and off, the rest I can manage, battery will be another heavy object that once on board could stay secured in place.


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## richg99 (Oct 9, 2016)

Rollers are hardly ever recommended for aluminum boats. I doubt if they would be recommended for a vinyl type boat. If the boat were totally empty, you might get away with it. When you add a lot of weight (motor, battery etc.), I'd look at bunks. 

Cover the bunks with PVC gutters and sliding the boat off and on will be much easier.

I've extended the front of a few trailers. It sure helps when launching. 

Be sure you can keep 10/15 % of the trailer weight on the ball.

richg99


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## olefart (Oct 10, 2016)

I do agree with you about the bunks. looking at our river launch sites which get mostly drift boats usage, the ramps end at the waters edge, no backing the boat into the water for either launching or retrieval full hand cranking them drift boats from the water up onto the trailers and all the way to the front of trailer done with muscle power, them boats are heavy. This boat is very light empty but it is a long way from the rollers in the back to the one roller in front. Using a combination of rollers and bunks maybe the best I am not sure about that yet. Lifting the bow would place the weight on the aft rollers for launch and recovery then rest it on the bunks for going down the road?
from the suggestion of using a davit I am thinking maybe an "A" frame hinged on the trailer frame, using a bolt on each side to pivot from, long enough to pick up from the ground just behind trailer with enough to reach the transom and up to the front of the boat to move the heavy stuff, less then a hundred lbs, when not in use at could fit on the trailer y frame under the boat. have to test material to keep this lite enough yet have the strength to do what I need. picking up a battery is asking me to put all my power into it and may have to rest for a couple days after doing that lol 
thanks for the helpful hints and directions.


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## richg99 (Oct 10, 2016)

Not sure how old or what your physical condition might be, but I get the impression that hauling and lifting heavy items is no longer pleasurable for you. Trust me, I understand.

Since your ramps sound like they are mostly steep, and they have NO ramp in the water at times..I'd seriously consider a power winch. I'd also add a very heavy backing plate on the bow of your boat, ....since the winch will be pulling the entire weight of the boat and all of your add-ons. 

Check Harbor Freight or Northern Tool for a power winch. Not the highest of quality, but your use will be limited and the prices should be very reasonable. 

Once she is on a level surface, removing the motor and other gear will be much easier. 

Some kind of gantry or lift would help to move the heavier motor, but you still would have to swing it out of the boat and onto the vehicle. 

I've seen small "motor hoists" mounted on the back/sides of service trucks. I assume that lifting heavy items is their purpose. Might that work for you? Once it's on a flat surface in the parking lot, you could detach the boat; bring the truck on the boat's side, and lift the motor directly into the bed of your vehicle.

Just some musings since I cannot sleep this morning. 

regards, richg99


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## olefart (Oct 15, 2016)

I've been a little busy like most of you. finally got my numbers and put them on have some things to put on the boat make sure the gas & electric motors are ready and load up the legal required stuff. 
Then I am thinking of taking it to the lake and see how the trailer looks going in and out of this shallow lake and ramp and see how it will work in the configuration it is in now. 
Do I need to move the boat farther aft on the trailer, how much does it need to be lowered, where the bunks will work, and how and if/or where can the rollers work?
The weather has been gentle breezes of 35 to 50 normal for here but I may wait for something a little calmer seeing how I will be the only one out at the small lake may have some duck hunters I am wishful thinking.
Its a couple miles long, mile wide and a couple miles from the hwy cant remember seeing any house around there for many more miles, not sure about any cell service out there either, safety first. so may be a bit but I will be back with what I find out.


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## richg99 (Oct 15, 2016)

You already know this. 

Be careful. That is a small boat on a big (relatively) lake. With the high winds, it will be dangerous. 

Early morning calm will be best. 
richg99


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Oct 15, 2016)

If you put the axle on top of the springs it looks like you will have to move the fenders or you could put 8" wheels and tires on. Which will lower the trailer a little more.


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## richg99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I'd rather have larger tires and move the fenders, myself. 

Unless you only tow very short distances and lower speeds. richg99


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## olefart (Oct 15, 2016)

I plan on moving fenders and weld them back on along with putting the axle above the springs, now the springs seem awful stout I can stand on the fender and jump up and down and the springs barely move maybe 1/4 inch I'm thinking this is a 1000lb springs or more I have another old old home made trailer that has much more forgiving springs they move a couple inches when compressed standing on the fender. I am of the believe the softer springs would be easier on the boat going down the cow paths we call dirt roads, miles of them. When I towed this down from Billings a few hundred miles the spring were very stout seems when I came to any kind of bump the trailer would get air borne even at entering a parking lot at low speeds. any thoughts on this??
Wind is wisping along tops of the trees aren't touching the ground quite yet so may wait some more have to see why the generator in the van is wanting attention, work on one thing everything else thinks it needs to be worked on too. Trying to get ready to head south before the snow gets here. have a winch post to build and install this one is too short and pulls the boat down at quite an angle while loading it up on the trailer also too close from the winch to the bow, afraid of trolling motor mounted on the bow may catch the winch when unloading on a steep ramp? good thing these items don't keep me up at night. lol
I am an ex coastie did my 4 yrs with them so I am aware of what can happen and how quick things can go south on the water, I did get at one point where if a storm wasn't howling it was too boring to get out on the water. Oh I am past that now, I like the calm but here the wind can get over 60 in just a couple minutes and then drop to nothing ten minutes later back to 60 and from another direction. I plan on having camping gear in boat at all times when I use the boat, for emergencies wind kicks up too much I will pull ashore and wait it out for a few days in necessary , all part of exploring our public lands and water ways .
Keep public lands public. Leave something for your grand kids grand kids.


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## richg99 (Oct 15, 2016)

I had a light-weight kayak on a Jon boat trailer. Springs were too strong for that little load. I sold the yak to a guy who didn't need the trailer. The trailer went to my BIL free.

Before I sold it, I thought about removing one of the leafs, for the same issues that you mentioned. I'd bet Harbor Freight would have some smaller, lighter springs if removing a couple of leafs doesn't help.

richg99


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## lckstckn2smknbrls (Oct 15, 2016)

I'd do the lighter springs with the light load you have.


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## olefart (Oct 15, 2016)

There are 2 leafs so I will swap them out. did some work on the front I will pull out the grinder and welder to modify the winch placement. hitch is wobbly also may have to cut it off square and weld an extension piece on, or maybe a inside slider extension so I can keep my feet dry launching. I think it was bent, jack knifed backing up to far will have to unbolt it to see for sure and fix it too.
I'm going to move the boat around on the trailer to see how it looks moved aft a couple feet. I can add in the front and/or extend the rear. I have to cut the rear up anyways to move and lower the rollers. I want to do it with sunlight and I can take pictures.
not enough time I'll be working in the snow soon.


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## richg99 (Oct 16, 2016)

Since you are already working on the winch stand area....this step system was recommended on another site that I frequent. Sure looks like something I could use, given my advanced age. Ha ha richg99

https://www.easystepsystem.com/


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## olefart (Dec 5, 2016)

I don't need the steps on this trailer but will put something like that on my Lowes.
A foot of snow has stopped me in my tracks. I have had other pressing fix me's to fix before I can get back on this trailer.
I now am amassing the items I will need to rig this boat with and I want to take it down to Phx so I can work on it with my grandkids seeing how they will end up with it they can do the work. if I can get the phones out of there hands and put some tools in them. lol
I will have to build a winch stand before I go but will wait for the weather to change a little first. This boat is so light ,125 lbs, that I don't believe I need to much to winch it on the trailer. So this picture is what I am thinking of using cant remember the name of it. Using the bow rope you can place it in this winch to pull the boat up and on the trailer. no reason to pull the regular winch line out and then have to crank it all back on the reel. this doesn't have a reel so saves a lot of cranking the strap back on the roller.


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## richg99 (Dec 6, 2016)

I agree that your boat is light, but is that device any improvement over a regular winch? 

A lightweight winch is pretty cheap, yet does it's job very well. 

You could arrange to use your painter/bow rope in the winch if that is what you want to do.


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## olefart (Dec 6, 2016)

Rich this is by no means a replacement for the standard boat winch. a separate bow tie down is required as this is not meant to hold a load, it is only a rope puller. Later I will go trampling through the foot of snow later today and get the name of this devise so it can be looked up properly for description and price by those interested.
Along the river here the boat launches don't really enter the river most people ride rafts down the river or the fishermen use drift boats, when launching them, heavy, boats a good winch is required to both launch and retrieve the boats as they will use their winches to balance/hold the boat as far back on the trailer as possible to launch then they have to drag the boat up and on to the trailer to retrieve so the winch is very important to accomplish this feat. 
My little canoe is light enough, without a slick bottom, that an ole fart can move it around pretty easily, That the strap isn't necessary to hold the weight makes it a sliver in a wood seat, with this I only use the length of rope needed and it slips over the gismo right where it is needed, so the bow line (painters rope?) is all that is needed for rigging, no strap to fight with. 
Well I will get dressed for the weather, 10 degrees and a foot of snow to find it and get the name off it. so will get back on here this evening if I don't fall asleep or pass out taking my winter gear off. lol


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## richg99 (Dec 6, 2016)

Don't go in the snow to get the name. Might be a variation on a ComeAlong or a Power Puller.
Rich


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## olefart (Dec 16, 2016)

I had to wait for warmer day to melt the snow it was 50 yesterday and heading to -20 tonight, Wyoming weather. This is a link to the manufacture of the "skywinch" it has a short video of using this winch.


"skywinch" capacity of 350lbs for boats under 18'/1000LBS only, use with 1/2 inch solid braided rope, NOT for moving humans NOT for towing, Must use safety chains and tie down straps for towing.



https://greenfieldproducts.com/


My little tin boat will do fine with this boat winch I believe. Does anyone have any experiences with one of these, good or bad?


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## olefart (Dec 16, 2016)

another link to greenfield skywinch as its known 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Greenfield-SKYWINCH


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## richg99 (Dec 16, 2016)

I like it! 
https://www.cabelas.com/product/Greenfield-Sky-Winch/1342300.uts?productVariantId=3069153&WT.tsrc=PPC&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03346565&rid=20&gclid=CjwKEAiAvs7CBRC24rao6bGCoiASJABaCt5DgxGRYRt2Ag2-2RGFsSkRPdYrdVUnZShRmJORKVBnDhoCglzw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I guess I'd like to see one in action on a boat of my size (1652 G3). But, it does solve some of the issues that I have experienced.

My only negative observation is that the lever arm is much longer than a normal winch. One would have to be certain that their winch riser would accommodate the new device. 

Price isn't too bad. Higher than a small regular winch, to be sure, but if it eliminated the ....strap-clipping-dance,.... It would be well worth it.

It does take two hands.... but I don't see that as a major issue, either. 

I'd have to change out my painter/bow rope.The floating polyethylene rope that I presently use wouldn't "grab" in the gears, I think.

Since I often have my boat hook with me, if need be, I could hook the bow rope with the boat hook, and drag it inshore to be draped over the new winch. This device might keep me from having to jump back in and start the motor....and then drive the boat up the bunks.

PLEASE keep us posted if you buy it. However, at 20 degrees below, I don't think you'll have it on the water anytime soon.

richg99


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## richg99 (Dec 16, 2016)

I just wrote the manufacturer and asked if the crank arm must be circled around, or does it have ratcheting capability?

richg99


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## olefart (Dec 16, 2016)

Rich it has to rotate, no ratcheting, turns only one way and has a release lever. then it will free wheel either way.
I bought a couple of these a year or so ago had one on the 10' lone star trailer, took it off because I am letting a buddy use the boat and I was afraid he may mess up, not strapping the bow down,so I put the old style back on for him to use. I didn't use it very often , but it did pick up the empty boat from the lawn and up and onto the trailer very easily. On a ramp I could drive the boat all the way on the trailer with out the winch.
The handle is about 9" I had mine a little farther away from the boat to stay out of the way of trolling motor when launching, and the handle did seem longer, better leverage, then a normal winch, maybe an inch? But being able to put the rope of any length on,is well worth having if your not to heavy, pulling 350lbs you can drag a pretty good size boat with the proper covered bunks on the trailer.
I originally bought these to use as a lifting devices for hauling gear up in trees, chainsaws, deer, easier then trying to hold a rope while using block and tackle, this will hold a vertical load as long as there is tension being applied could be dangerous if not done properly.


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## richg99 (Dec 18, 2016)

Here is the reply that I just received from Greenfield.. Hard working guy, replying in a Sunday evening.


Hi Rich-
Thanks for your interest in SkyWinch.
The current (original) model does not have gear/ratchet. It turns on a 1:1 ratio and works exactly as shown in the video.

We are currently developing a Heavy-Duty (geared/ratchet) version to be introduced sometime in 2017.
So far, the ratcheted model has handled very heavy loads, so the only limitations will be the strength of the rope.

We will also be offering a mounting system to use the original SkyWinch as an anchor retriever.
Please watch our site for information about both new products.
Thanks,
Wes


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## olefart (Mar 20, 2017)

Well it finally warmed up enough I was able to get the back gates opened and the boat out of the back. 
The sky winch works if you have a strain on it, with no weight or pressure the line will slip, hold the bitter end tight so it can get a bite on the line and it will pull till the line breaks, it needs a load to get a grip.
I like it, my boat weighs nothing, 110lbs, so I can pull it easily without the winch on level ground, once loaded it will be just right. I installed a turnbuckle as a safety to hold the bow while driving, along with a ring I made from two J bolts welded through the 1/2" bow eye, fashioned an oblong ring 1/2 thick 2"x5", I believe they had the painter line tied through this 1/2" rough nasty hole before. 
To late for pictures tonight.
I've done a lot to get it street legal again so I can take the boat to the lake an see how it floats,well after I fire up the motors to make sure they all run, I'm not sure if the ice is gone at the lake yet.
Spent my down time this cold snowy season checking out places I can and will use this little boat.
The set up with the rollers may be just what is needed to launch this boat. Many places have no ramps, you must carry the boat to the water.
This high roller trailer is at a good height to manhandle the boat and will be nice in getting down the river embankments, and over the post and cables that surround the parking areas, I hope they don't ban people till after I'm dead and gone. 
Will post some pictures soon. 
With an irrigation controlled lake here, the level is dropped 20' in the winter and in a couple weeks it will be raised and I want to see what the canyon walls look like at the low water level, where fish will be in the summer. Not many nice days mostly high winds 50 60 mph gust so looking for the one good day to run up the canyon.
So first things first, lots more to do on the trailer, boat and the motors. Test the motors starting tomorrow, then a water test asap. pictures have to wait.


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## richg99 (Mar 20, 2017)

Sounds good. Glad I don't have to wait for weather so much as you do.

Be sure to take lots of pictures and depth readings when the lake is so low. You'll use them at full pool. Rich


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## olefart (Mar 20, 2017)

I am going to up load some pictures while it warms up some outside. This is all in the rough stages it can all be fixed by a weldor with some power tools, paint will cover it all up.


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## olefart (Mar 20, 2017)

I got me an idea.
It's all heavy wall stuff and I got to put motors someplace safer then on a transom, laying in the camper or boat bottom while transporting them, but is trailers the place for it, 
ahh I'll weld a hitch on it, and that will tie it to trailers .don't want stuff where it don't belong.


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## olefart (Mar 29, 2017)

well finally got to put some time in on the trailer, It has changed a little from when I started.


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## olefart (Mar 29, 2017)

screwed that post up lol. The old and the new.


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## olefart (Mar 29, 2017)

the rollers and the ramp material I used for a walk way. I also put the cross piece in thinking to use on bunks.


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## olefart (Mar 29, 2017)

I decided to go with the sky winch over the normal strap one. I have a safety didn't get a shot of that yet.


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